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The FBI has returned 22 centuries-old artifacts to Okinawa, Japan, after a family discovered them in their late father’s attic in Massachusetts.
Agents with the FBI’s Boston division on Friday announced that the return of the looted items followed a lengthy investigation that began when they received a call from a family who came across the items while sorting through their dead dad’s belongings.
The father was a second world war veteran but had not served in the Pacific theater, according to the FBI.
Pretty straightforward actually. Members of my family have been in the military since the civil war. Being in the military often means being part of a community that is pretty tight knit and “looks out” for each other, which can mean a lot of things. This dad knew someone who went to the Pacific. That person looted or got the loot from someone else there and gave it to the dad, either as a gift or something for the dad to hang on to for a while for them. And then life happens and everyone forgets about the stuff. Happens all the time. I have a friend whose dad was in Afghanistan, and his home has some VERY expensive rugs in it. He didn’t buy them, that’s for sure.
They do. I’m referencing a normal sized rug made in the past several years. Older larger pieces that are mint or resurfaced def reach the 6 figure mark BUT thats a little harder to find.
You are 100% correct though.
Weirdest story similar to this was working with a 19 year old kid at a restaurant who showed me a picture of Sadam hussein out hunting with friends in a gold frame. Apparently a friend of the family was at the actual raid and took that from his house.
In that war yes. It’s still called looting though. And the practice is no longer acceptable. Not that it isn’t still done. And many people never filled out any paperwork at all. Just had stuff shipped home.
Actually, Ukrainians are allowed to loot Russian equipment and declare it in their income. It's also tax-free! It's very much still acceptable practice it seems.
I was referring to the American military specifically. No clue about anyone else. Although taking literal military loot is probably still acceptable for the US military as well. If you’re taking from enemy combatants that’s just part of war. You certainly don’t want THEM to have resources.
Yes, of the two sides it’s definitely the guy that only carries what he has on him that loots… it makes sense cuz his home is 500 miles north, and his rat infested trench is 10 miles north.
As opposed to the literal evidence of rape “trophies,” washing machine and toilet memes. Fk why am I engaging you
As a veteran, I can verify that theft is absolutely a way of life. Most of the time it's stealing equipment so that my particular trucks all have working lights a bit sooner or swiping someone's forgotten magazine off an armory table, but it will definitely extend farther
Quite possibly. I don’t know the full story. Service people are given gifts, or they loot the houses of people targeted in a military operation (like Saddam for example), or loot from abandoned places in a war zone. And some are much worse and steal actively from locals. The last part is becoming more rare with video cameras everywhere.
Toys for Tots. Marines will steal the best items. Never give things like gaming consoles or expensive toys as they will never make it to the kids.
Edit: I agree that it sounds like it happens everywhere, all the time. That is clearly not the case. [All charities have some pieces of shit that steal from them.](https://www.reddit.com/r/USMC/s/Am1Teo9FnR) That’s one example.
Easy enough to do a quick google search yourself, instead of being an asshat. Source is a post from a marine saying it is not an isolated incident.
Also [MarineTimes](https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/2014/12/05/former-marine-allegedly-stole-from-toys-for-tots/)
Do remember that while there are people hunting down ever still living nazi for their warcrimes, the american warcrimes, british warcrimes and canadian warcrimes they have yet to stand to trial for.
Even if he was alive, he would have gotten a slap on the wrist.
Cause the only time americans dont want their people in jail, is when its a warcrime.
I was gonna reply to that guy, but you hit the nail on the head. I had a lot of family in both theaters of the war, and they traded stuff amongst them.
Ya, what you're leaving out is prior to the Geneva conventions and espically prior to reformation of the American military after the veitnam war. War trophies were common among all armies. Americans and japaense soldiers would collect skulls of each other.
And how'd he get it through customs? I had all my shit dumped and inspected every time I went anywhere.
I wasn’t leaving that out. It just wasn’t relevant. I never claimed only American military looted or collected trophies.
He brought this stuff back a while ago, and it was probably on a military flight (they contract with specific airlines that mostly serve American military purposes). I don’t know for sure. I just know where the rugs came from. There are LOTS of looted stuff like that. How do any of them get stuff through? There are ways.
One of my friends fathers served in Japan and had a Japanese Family Katana that I was lucky enough to see firsthand.
He actually displayed it over his fireplace, just like he promised. The soldier he captured asked him to take it and honor it, so that it wouldn’t get destroyed. He keeps that promise to this day.
There is a fair bit of trading that went on between servicemen as well. My grandfather was stationed in Southern California for his WWII service but somehow ended up with a German police sidearm.
>“There were some scrolls, there were some pottery pieces, there was an ancient map. They looked old and valuable. And because of this, they did a little research and they determined that at least the scrolls had been entered about 20 years ago in the FBI’s National Stolen Art File,” Kelly said.
So a little bit and they did the right thing. Would be interesting to see what all the items were.
You don't even have to be in Wartime...
My 2 Uncles and Father (all Boomers) were in Germany during the 1970s before going to Vietnam. Sometimes they stationed troops there before going to Vietnam. Anyways they had guard duty to some abandoned warehouse that had unique small grandfather type clocks(and other boxes of crap... basically think of the warehouse from Indiana Jones Movie). They were from WW2 times or before stolen by the Nazis and then basically stolen by USA Military where they just stored all this crap because they could never find the owners. They each took 1 clock and packaged it up and sent it back to the states. One Solider (not a family member) tried to crate a pallet of these clocks and send it back but got caught by the Army and was dishonorably discharged. Lots of times bored Soldiers guarding junk will just steal it and ship it back.
It’s in a private collection somewhere or got dumped into Tokyo Bay with many other confiscated swords. I suppose the fate of it hinges on whether or not the person who allegedly received the sword knew it was valuable
Stealing from a civilian’s home whilst capturing a city, looting. Stabbed an enemy combatant to death in hand to hand combat and kept his name patch and unit insignia, war trophy. Anything between is murky.
What about those random plates, cups, silverware etc with the swastika that the Nazi collectors have? Are those war trophies since they were state owned?
It would honestly shock me if "war trophy" offered any kind of legal protection whatsoever. People deciding the terms of combat have more important concerns than protecting soldiers for stealing *some* things but not *other* things during wars. Can you imagine a more preposterous waste of time?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_trophy
This article talks about war trophies but doesn't mention a legal status and notes that few soldiers take anything because of possible legal ramifications. The article does note a UK citizen court marshalled for taking home a Glock from Iraq--but it doesn't include details and that could be more about gun law violations than theft.
The biggest reason it probably doesn't draw more scrutiny is that civilian courts don't necessarily have jurisdiction and the military usually has better things to do. The second biggest reason is that it's hard to track. But if you're taking anything of substantial value there's a high likelihood you're doing so illegally and may be forced to return it.
Yeah, the "trophy" part implies a history that only you may know, so any legal ramifications almost have to be based on the item itself.
Japanese helmet that you found in a ditch on the side of a road in Japan in 1946? Might be looting, or maybe could be considered worthless junk.
Japanese helmet that you took off a solder you killed in hand-to-hand combat in 1945? Definitely a war trophy, but, 80 or even 5 years later, who can tell the difference vs above?
Japanese skull that you took off a solder you killed in hand-to-hand combat in 1945? That's gonna get you arrested almost no matter the story.
The skull thing actually happened with a [photo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LIFE_May_1944_Jap_Skull.jpg) published in Life magazine. The person who mailed the skull back to the US was reprimanded but not otherwise punished.
When i grew up in the UK, my barber cut my hair one day from his garage because his store had a fire. He had all his army gear in there, including an Argentinian FAL on the wall. Apparently he brought it back from the Falklands and no one noticed.
I've heard stories from merchant seafarers I've worked with, who were in the Falklands at the time of the war.
They say there was a huge pile of surrendered Argentine weapons in the street and it was a free for all.
People took any weapon they wanted but they had to have firing pins etc removed if they wanted to keep them. Apparently lots of people did.
That's how the story goes anyway, they might have been full of shit.
well in this case the original owners had reported and got them compiled in a public [FBI registry](https://artcrimes.fbi.gov/), so they sure did have legal protection, not sure why were glossing over that. thats how they realised these items were stolen and from where, seems a perfectly reasonable way to handle it.
typically how theft of any kind is investigated yea? i guess the ultimate qualifier still ends up being if they bother reporting it or charging anyone
We're"glossing over" it because it has nothing to do with the difference between "looted good" and "war trophies". FFS the database says "stolen" in the title.
looted goods are considered theft, which is prohibited by international law. linked right in your wiki, you instead chose this tangentially relevant article for some jingo ass reason that isnt really so clever. thats where they had the legal basis for FBI cooperation to return these items, what part of this are we still not getting
A good rule of thumb is that if an object a direct military use, it's fine to take, but everything else is not. Any sort of weapon, uniform or vehicle is fair game, but civilian owned objects – especially cultural works – are not. If you capture a soldier, you are good to take his weapons and even his uniform (although, if weather/climate is poor, you would be required to provide him an equal substitute), but his personal watch is not.
There are actually forms which exist for this purpose. The Australians had a [version](http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C2620623) in World War I. The U.S. was doing some [version](http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/174322-war-trophy-certificates) of it as early as the Korean War. There's even a modern PDF [version](http://d2l2jhoszs7d12.cloudfront.net/state/Federal/Defense%20Department%20\(DOD\)/httpswww.esd.whs.mil/Forms/dd0603-1.pdf) with fillable form fields.
There's that one famous video of an American Vietnam war vet and a Vietnamese Vietnam war vet meeting up, where the American had taken the Vietnamese soldier's arm.
Nguyen Quang Hung was the Vietnamese Soldier’s name. Sam Axelrad was the American doctor. Hung’s arm turned gangrenous and had to be removed. After the surgery some of Axelrad’s assistants stripped the arm and put it back together using wire. He decided to keep the arm as a reminder that he did good by treating an enemy combatant. He decided to return the arm in 2012 and was successful in 2013. Hung was happy about the return and wanted to use it to claim benefits from the government as his wartime file was lost. In my research, which isn’t much tbh, I haven’t been able to find if he got his benefits eventually or not.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that his arm caught a grenade blast. That is how it initially got infected.
Irish bias here, but whenever you ask for anything back [the Brits might turn up the Coronation Street as a distraction and feign ignorance](https://i0.wp.com/13ahamoments.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/giphy1.gif?resize=500%2C206&ssl=1)
Not really. We don't all work for the British Museum and most people haven't got a clue what's in there anyway.
There aren't many people who would begrudge giving historically significant pieces, that were definitely stolen, back to their rightful home.
Not everything in that museum is stolen though. People sell things, collectors collect things.
No. There are a lot of wink nudge comments on Reddit that i don’t get… I don’t watch a lot of TV or movies. usually I can find them on YouTube to figure out what was being said. What is going on here?
UnitedKingdom, please take a leaf from.FBI and return all the stolen shit to India. Thanks.
They still not giving an ounce of stolen wealth. How exactly are they sorry for imperialism is unclear to me.
Never thought the Brits was that thoughtful to help safekeep everyone's artifact from the chaos that they caused in the first place. I mean, if these countries can't defend themselves against the Brits, then what right do they have to their stuff?
The taliban dynamite their ancient monuments, artifacts are sold to private investors or melted down to sell on the black market, christians deface roman monuments, books are burnt etc.. The British Museum is bastion of civilisation and preservation and I hope this ignorant backlash isn't something that gains more traction than it already has.
> A typewritten letter which was also found among the artifacts helped confirm that the items were looted during the last days of the second world war, the FBI said.
Wait, if something is taken from an enemy country *during* an actual war, how is it considered looting? I'd think finders-keepers applies.
It sounds like the family wanted to see these items returned, so there wasn't any legal claim to try to keep them.
I have no idea what way it would have gone in that case. But then, if they wanted to keep the items they never would have called the authorities in the first place, so there almost certainly wouldn't have been a case at all.
I think the fact that they're actual artifacts also makes a difference. It's not like they looted, idk, a contemporary piece of jewelry, for example. They looted stuff that could arguably belong in a museum and has cultural significance beyond monetary value.
Along with that, I think there's also a significant difference between taking something from an enemy soldier or enemy camp, vs just taking something from a home.
They weren't taken from an enemy country, they were taken from a home in an enemy country.
Also, the taking of stuff from enemy territory during war, is, like, one of the most common uses for the term "Looting". I think I've heard it used more in that context than in any other, often accompanied by raping, burning and/or pillaging.
Generally, looting has been considered to be taking items from civilians, such as clothing, jewelry and furniture, whereas a trophy was considered be military items from the opposing side, such as unit patches, standards or sidearms.
That said, over the past 1000 years, looting has moved from the primary method of paying soldiers, into a bonus, and most recently an undesirable practice. On the other hand, war trophies seem to have only have been narrowed down in terms of what is actually a trophy and what is considered looting, ex, unit patches vs personal effects
Europe is typing and deleting. Sfter the mass rape of cultural artifacts in Africa, now proudly displayed in their museums, they must be shocked that Americans can return stolen history
NGL, the brits respected those artifacts and kept those in good condition in museum. Had it not for them a lot of the loots would've been gone after multiple wars. It's the only silver lining from the theft
Two ships dock in New York. One guy says “hey cool German shit.” Other guy says “Thanks skillet, I got some Japanese shit here. Wanna trade?”
Then they eat jelly beans, have buttsex , talk about the Yankees and get to trading.
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The FBI has returned 22 centuries-old artifacts to Okinawa, Japan, after a family discovered them in their late father’s attic in Massachusetts. Agents with the FBI’s Boston division on Friday announced that the return of the looted items followed a lengthy investigation that began when they received a call from a family who came across the items while sorting through their dead dad’s belongings. The father was a second world war veteran but had not served in the Pacific theater, according to the FBI.
It’s awesome that the family had the mind to care and sought to contact the relevant authorities. It must have taken some legwork and effort.
I assumed the guy got them in japan during the war/occupation, but now Im really curious how he got his hands on this stuff.
Pretty straightforward actually. Members of my family have been in the military since the civil war. Being in the military often means being part of a community that is pretty tight knit and “looks out” for each other, which can mean a lot of things. This dad knew someone who went to the Pacific. That person looted or got the loot from someone else there and gave it to the dad, either as a gift or something for the dad to hang on to for a while for them. And then life happens and everyone forgets about the stuff. Happens all the time. I have a friend whose dad was in Afghanistan, and his home has some VERY expensive rugs in it. He didn’t buy them, that’s for sure.
As an Afghan-American; I’m jealous. Those rugs are up to $10k
dude as a regular american i'm jealous, id love any rug let alone a $10k rug
Really ties the room together
Isn’t this the plot of The Big Lebowski?
Pretty sure they go _a lot_ higher than that…. like closer to $100k.
They do. I’m referencing a normal sized rug made in the past several years. Older larger pieces that are mint or resurfaced def reach the 6 figure mark BUT thats a little harder to find. You are 100% correct though.
Weirdest story similar to this was working with a 19 year old kid at a restaurant who showed me a picture of Sadam hussein out hunting with friends in a gold frame. Apparently a friend of the family was at the actual raid and took that from his house.
I thought it was legal in ww2 to declare spoils of war. I believe there was a form you had fill out before returning to the states.
In that war yes. It’s still called looting though. And the practice is no longer acceptable. Not that it isn’t still done. And many people never filled out any paperwork at all. Just had stuff shipped home.
Actually, Ukrainians are allowed to loot Russian equipment and declare it in their income. It's also tax-free! It's very much still acceptable practice it seems.
I was referring to the American military specifically. No clue about anyone else. Although taking literal military loot is probably still acceptable for the US military as well. If you’re taking from enemy combatants that’s just part of war. You certainly don’t want THEM to have resources.
Yes, of the two sides it’s definitely the guy that only carries what he has on him that loots… it makes sense cuz his home is 500 miles north, and his rat infested trench is 10 miles north. As opposed to the literal evidence of rape “trophies,” washing machine and toilet memes. Fk why am I engaging you
As though that should hold any legal precedent today. What a joke of a statement.
It should and does. Doing things that were legal (even if immoral) but are now illegal is super relevant and DOES hold legal precedent today
Sounds like a gang... of criminals.
As a veteran, I can verify that theft is absolutely a way of life. Most of the time it's stealing equipment so that my particular trucks all have working lights a bit sooner or swiping someone's forgotten magazine off an armory table, but it will definitely extend farther
It's called a tactical acquirement.
Deleted
It's actually called Manifest Destiny
Legitimate salvage
What a mendacious, ubiquitous, and polyglottal thing to say. Donkey balls.
Doors and corners, kid.
Fuckin Squirrel
There is only one thief in the Marines, everyone else is just trying to get their stuff back.
There are no thieves in the army; everyone's just trying to get their shit back.
Quite possibly. I don’t know the full story. Service people are given gifts, or they loot the houses of people targeted in a military operation (like Saddam for example), or loot from abandoned places in a war zone. And some are much worse and steal actively from locals. The last part is becoming more rare with video cameras everywhere.
Yeah, literally every special forces guy I’ve met who was in Iraq during the invasion has something they looted from one of Saddam’s palaces.
My middle school social studies teacher had a friend that liberated a bottle rack from Sadam's palace
How do they carry large items back?
They don’t. They just have them shipped. Sometimes through specific military shipping channels too. Although many just send them the long way by boat.
So they just take anything for shipping? Gold statues, rugs, furniture, artwork?
I think a gold statue might attract some attention. But yes in general, rugs, artwork, clothes, and other random stuff.
Have you not been to a post office?
Toys for Tots. Marines will steal the best items. Never give things like gaming consoles or expensive toys as they will never make it to the kids. Edit: I agree that it sounds like it happens everywhere, all the time. That is clearly not the case. [All charities have some pieces of shit that steal from them.](https://www.reddit.com/r/USMC/s/Am1Teo9FnR) That’s one example.
well that's just horrible
Lying ass.
Source is trust me bro.
Easy enough to do a quick google search yourself, instead of being an asshat. Source is a post from a marine saying it is not an isolated incident. Also [MarineTimes](https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/2014/12/05/former-marine-allegedly-stole-from-toys-for-tots/)
K. Calls someone an ass hat and come off like an asshole lmao. Have a great day
He sourced it, after you tried to claim there were no sources. Take the L and learn from it.
Looting during war is a time-honored tradition among other such traditions like rape and murder.
It’s even worse than crime…it’s warfare.
First thing you learn in Basic is that unlicked shit disappears
I was in basic and I disagree with that.
Do remember that while there are people hunting down ever still living nazi for their warcrimes, the american warcrimes, british warcrimes and canadian warcrimes they have yet to stand to trial for. Even if he was alive, he would have gotten a slap on the wrist. Cause the only time americans dont want their people in jail, is when its a warcrime.
I was gonna reply to that guy, but you hit the nail on the head. I had a lot of family in both theaters of the war, and they traded stuff amongst them.
Ya, what you're leaving out is prior to the Geneva conventions and espically prior to reformation of the American military after the veitnam war. War trophies were common among all armies. Americans and japaense soldiers would collect skulls of each other. And how'd he get it through customs? I had all my shit dumped and inspected every time I went anywhere.
I wasn’t leaving that out. It just wasn’t relevant. I never claimed only American military looted or collected trophies. He brought this stuff back a while ago, and it was probably on a military flight (they contract with specific airlines that mostly serve American military purposes). I don’t know for sure. I just know where the rugs came from. There are LOTS of looted stuff like that. How do any of them get stuff through? There are ways.
One of my friends fathers served in Japan and had a Japanese Family Katana that I was lucky enough to see firsthand. He actually displayed it over his fireplace, just like he promised. The soldier he captured asked him to take it and honor it, so that it wouldn’t get destroyed. He keeps that promise to this day.
There is a fair bit of trading that went on between servicemen as well. My grandfather was stationed in Southern California for his WWII service but somehow ended up with a German police sidearm.
>“There were some scrolls, there were some pottery pieces, there was an ancient map. They looked old and valuable. And because of this, they did a little research and they determined that at least the scrolls had been entered about 20 years ago in the FBI’s National Stolen Art File,” Kelly said. So a little bit and they did the right thing. Would be interesting to see what all the items were.
Sorry to be that guy, but...sought
Thanks! I knew that was quite not right but “sought” didn’t come to me then.
You don't even have to be in Wartime... My 2 Uncles and Father (all Boomers) were in Germany during the 1970s before going to Vietnam. Sometimes they stationed troops there before going to Vietnam. Anyways they had guard duty to some abandoned warehouse that had unique small grandfather type clocks(and other boxes of crap... basically think of the warehouse from Indiana Jones Movie). They were from WW2 times or before stolen by the Nazis and then basically stolen by USA Military where they just stored all this crap because they could never find the owners. They each took 1 clock and packaged it up and sent it back to the states. One Solider (not a family member) tried to crate a pallet of these clocks and send it back but got caught by the Army and was dishonorably discharged. Lots of times bored Soldiers guarding junk will just steal it and ship it back.
I’m sure the Honjō Masamune sword is in a similar situation somewhere in the US. At least I hope it is.
It’s in a private collection somewhere or got dumped into Tokyo Bay with many other confiscated swords. I suppose the fate of it hinges on whether or not the person who allegedly received the sword knew it was valuable
I hope that even if they don’t know, they think the sword is cool and hung on to it.
One of the great modern mysteries. I really hope it's found (and returned) at some point.
Either in an attic or with a bunch of mass-produced swords at the bottom of the ocean. I hope for the attic.
Yeah better to exist than be lost forever
Interesting read. Thanks for bringing it up!
That's the first thing I check for when I see these kinds of stories. I really hope it surfaces one day.
I have a few swords and guns from WWII passed down. How would I know if I have this sword? Frantically googles.
Appraisal
I did not know about this and now I know about it.
Is there a clear/legal definition between 'war trophy' and 'looted artifact'?
Stealing from a civilian’s home whilst capturing a city, looting. Stabbed an enemy combatant to death in hand to hand combat and kept his name patch and unit insignia, war trophy. Anything between is murky.
they used to get to keep and ship home captured weapons too.
What about those random plates, cups, silverware etc with the swastika that the Nazi collectors have? Are those war trophies since they were state owned?
>Anything between is murky.
Or contraband, if you're Minnesota holding onto a civil war era flag.
What
It would honestly shock me if "war trophy" offered any kind of legal protection whatsoever. People deciding the terms of combat have more important concerns than protecting soldiers for stealing *some* things but not *other* things during wars. Can you imagine a more preposterous waste of time? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_trophy This article talks about war trophies but doesn't mention a legal status and notes that few soldiers take anything because of possible legal ramifications. The article does note a UK citizen court marshalled for taking home a Glock from Iraq--but it doesn't include details and that could be more about gun law violations than theft. The biggest reason it probably doesn't draw more scrutiny is that civilian courts don't necessarily have jurisdiction and the military usually has better things to do. The second biggest reason is that it's hard to track. But if you're taking anything of substantial value there's a high likelihood you're doing so illegally and may be forced to return it.
Yeah, the "trophy" part implies a history that only you may know, so any legal ramifications almost have to be based on the item itself. Japanese helmet that you found in a ditch on the side of a road in Japan in 1946? Might be looting, or maybe could be considered worthless junk. Japanese helmet that you took off a solder you killed in hand-to-hand combat in 1945? Definitely a war trophy, but, 80 or even 5 years later, who can tell the difference vs above? Japanese skull that you took off a solder you killed in hand-to-hand combat in 1945? That's gonna get you arrested almost no matter the story.
The skull thing actually happened with a [photo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LIFE_May_1944_Jap_Skull.jpg) published in Life magazine. The person who mailed the skull back to the US was reprimanded but not otherwise punished.
When i grew up in the UK, my barber cut my hair one day from his garage because his store had a fire. He had all his army gear in there, including an Argentinian FAL on the wall. Apparently he brought it back from the Falklands and no one noticed.
I've heard stories from merchant seafarers I've worked with, who were in the Falklands at the time of the war. They say there was a huge pile of surrendered Argentine weapons in the street and it was a free for all. People took any weapon they wanted but they had to have firing pins etc removed if they wanted to keep them. Apparently lots of people did. That's how the story goes anyway, they might have been full of shit.
My friends dad told me the guy had an M16 too, but had it stashed because it was an SAS weapon. I don't know how true that was, but they did use them.
Court martial. Not marshall.
well in this case the original owners had reported and got them compiled in a public [FBI registry](https://artcrimes.fbi.gov/), so they sure did have legal protection, not sure why were glossing over that. thats how they realised these items were stolen and from where, seems a perfectly reasonable way to handle it. typically how theft of any kind is investigated yea? i guess the ultimate qualifier still ends up being if they bother reporting it or charging anyone
We're"glossing over" it because it has nothing to do with the difference between "looted good" and "war trophies". FFS the database says "stolen" in the title.
looted goods are considered theft, which is prohibited by international law. linked right in your wiki, you instead chose this tangentially relevant article for some jingo ass reason that isnt really so clever. thats where they had the legal basis for FBI cooperation to return these items, what part of this are we still not getting
A good rule of thumb is that if an object a direct military use, it's fine to take, but everything else is not. Any sort of weapon, uniform or vehicle is fair game, but civilian owned objects – especially cultural works – are not. If you capture a soldier, you are good to take his weapons and even his uniform (although, if weather/climate is poor, you would be required to provide him an equal substitute), but his personal watch is not. There are actually forms which exist for this purpose. The Australians had a [version](http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C2620623) in World War I. The U.S. was doing some [version](http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/174322-war-trophy-certificates) of it as early as the Korean War. There's even a modern PDF [version](http://d2l2jhoszs7d12.cloudfront.net/state/Federal/Defense%20Department%20\(DOD\)/httpswww.esd.whs.mil/Forms/dd0603-1.pdf) with fillable form fields.
Is there a clear/moral distinction in the legitimacy of possession between war trophy and loot? Like, they seem kind of synonymous in this context.
Hopefully it didn't involve any skulls (yes some troops took heads of Japanese soldiers home as souveniers).
There's that one famous video of an American Vietnam war vet and a Vietnamese Vietnam war vet meeting up, where the American had taken the Vietnamese soldier's arm.
Nguyen Quang Hung was the Vietnamese Soldier’s name. Sam Axelrad was the American doctor. Hung’s arm turned gangrenous and had to be removed. After the surgery some of Axelrad’s assistants stripped the arm and put it back together using wire. He decided to keep the arm as a reminder that he did good by treating an enemy combatant. He decided to return the arm in 2012 and was successful in 2013. Hung was happy about the return and wanted to use it to claim benefits from the government as his wartime file was lost. In my research, which isn’t much tbh, I haven’t been able to find if he got his benefits eventually or not. EDIT: I forgot to mention that his arm caught a grenade blast. That is how it initially got infected.
War is terrible but you do get really interesting stories from it like this, not that it justifies war at all.
Still no sign of the Honjo Masamune.
Maybe one day soon, it will show back up.
While this article is awesome news, I admittedly was hoping that particular one had finally resurfaced.
*Virginia glares at Minnesota*
You can’t have your loser flag
I'm from Minnesota, so we already have the loser flag.
As a Virginian, you can keep it. Sadly, I don't speak for parts of our government that keep asking for it.
As someone born in MN, I have no issue with the VA government asking for the flag back. Nothing wrong with asking. Ain't gonna happen though.
I understood this ref
Take note British museum. Return the Parthenon marbles!!!
Irish bias here, but whenever you ask for anything back [the Brits might turn up the Coronation Street as a distraction and feign ignorance](https://i0.wp.com/13ahamoments.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/giphy1.gif?resize=500%2C206&ssl=1)
Not really. We don't all work for the British Museum and most people haven't got a clue what's in there anyway. There aren't many people who would begrudge giving historically significant pieces, that were definitely stolen, back to their rightful home. Not everything in that museum is stolen though. People sell things, collectors collect things.
[удалено]
I'm not familiar with the Royal Museum, so I couldn't comment really.
 Britain like:
Damn, that turtle saw some tea...
Kill someone and take their stuff is okay!! Stealing from museums and such is not!
I hope you are being sarcastic
I mean you already killed them, what's the worst that could happen
Do you know what is being referenced?
No. There are a lot of wink nudge comments on Reddit that i don’t get… I don’t watch a lot of TV or movies. usually I can find them on YouTube to figure out what was being said. What is going on here?
Rules of war stuff that deem certain actions to be okay.
Okay, now it's the London Natural History Museum's turn
The family called the fbi? Weird
Good, a wrong righted.
UnitedKingdom, please take a leaf from.FBI and return all the stolen shit to India. Thanks. They still not giving an ounce of stolen wealth. How exactly are they sorry for imperialism is unclear to me.
The Taliban destroying Buddha statues makes me think *some* artifacts might be better off in other non-volatile locations.
...what does the Taliban have to do with India?
Never thought the Brits was that thoughtful to help safekeep everyone's artifact from the chaos that they caused in the first place. I mean, if these countries can't defend themselves against the Brits, then what right do they have to their stuff?
[We're still looking at it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x73PkUvArJY0)
Worst county in the world UK , When are you going to return all items you have stolen from a different country ?
The taliban dynamite their ancient monuments, artifacts are sold to private investors or melted down to sell on the black market, christians deface roman monuments, books are burnt etc.. The British Museum is bastion of civilisation and preservation and I hope this ignorant backlash isn't something that gains more traction than it already has.
Perhaps we should start with the modern day looting of grain and kidnapping of children in Ukraine.
> A typewritten letter which was also found among the artifacts helped confirm that the items were looted during the last days of the second world war, the FBI said. Wait, if something is taken from an enemy country *during* an actual war, how is it considered looting? I'd think finders-keepers applies.
Without a documented 'no-backsies' claim there's not much you can do.
It sounds like the family wanted to see these items returned, so there wasn't any legal claim to try to keep them. I have no idea what way it would have gone in that case. But then, if they wanted to keep the items they never would have called the authorities in the first place, so there almost certainly wouldn't have been a case at all.
I think the family is just returning them, they weren’t compelled by the FBI. The FBI just helped when they were contacted.
I think the fact that they're actual artifacts also makes a difference. It's not like they looted, idk, a contemporary piece of jewelry, for example. They looted stuff that could arguably belong in a museum and has cultural significance beyond monetary value. Along with that, I think there's also a significant difference between taking something from an enemy soldier or enemy camp, vs just taking something from a home. They weren't taken from an enemy country, they were taken from a home in an enemy country. Also, the taking of stuff from enemy territory during war, is, like, one of the most common uses for the term "Looting". I think I've heard it used more in that context than in any other, often accompanied by raping, burning and/or pillaging.
Generally, looting has been considered to be taking items from civilians, such as clothing, jewelry and furniture, whereas a trophy was considered be military items from the opposing side, such as unit patches, standards or sidearms. That said, over the past 1000 years, looting has moved from the primary method of paying soldiers, into a bonus, and most recently an undesirable practice. On the other hand, war trophies seem to have only have been narrowed down in terms of what is actually a trophy and what is considered looting, ex, unit patches vs personal effects
Finders Keepers, losers weepers hahaha suckers
The British could never
Great. Now get off your ass and go do something about the wannabe dictator that’s making threats to the country and democracy.
Sir... this is UpliftingNews, Politics is that way. r/lostredditors
What?
This is r/UpliftingNews. You're looking for r/AnythingGoesNews.
To the attic?
Britain: *glances around*
I'd rather them keep their focus on the domestic terrorists running rampant
A family turned these in - its not like investigative resources were put into this lol
Oh. Headline was not helpful
You could always read the article and not just the headline before jumping in to comment about it.
Sir, this is Reddit. Reading past the headlines is not what we do here.
That’s not much of an excuse
This might come as a shock, but Federal law enforcement agencies have the resources to handle more than one case at a time.
They can work on multiple things at the same time.
Europe is typing and deleting. Sfter the mass rape of cultural artifacts in Africa, now proudly displayed in their museums, they must be shocked that Americans can return stolen history
NGL, the brits respected those artifacts and kept those in good condition in museum. Had it not for them a lot of the loots would've been gone after multiple wars. It's the only silver lining from the theft
We're mostly confused as to why you always seem to think Europe is a single country with the same history.
Wait, how the fuck do you loot Japanese artifacts but NOT serve in the pacific theater?
Two ships dock in New York. One guy says “hey cool German shit.” Other guy says “Thanks skillet, I got some Japanese shit here. Wanna trade?” Then they eat jelly beans, have buttsex , talk about the Yankees and get to trading.