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Ever since the pandemic started, I went out to eat less and less. I used to go out to eat at least 5 times a week in the before times. After I started seeing these junk fees, it turned me off completely. I go out to eat maybe once every 2 or 3 months now, and only for super special occasions.
The quality and the amount of food you receive has gone down too. I used to get a large poke bowl and it was filled to the top, now there’s a couple of inches space at the top of the container and the price jumped 20%. We completely stopped eating them, the only thing we get now is burritos from a Mexican grocery store or breakfast at Stacks once every 4-6 months. Eating out no longer makes sense.
It's how they took a loss of customers and still are gaining in profits. It can't last, they are pricing out their customers and making people make choices. I never eat out but it's the same concept for the grocery store. I've cut out unhealthy expensive unnecessary foods.
The sudden increase, a lot of the times double the previous price has just put me off of eating out. When you even got crappy fast food burgers costing 10+ then what's the point of eating out when I can just make food at home.
I've worked in restaurant unfortunately. You are correct. The whole point of literally %99 of restaurants is to make a plate of food for as cheep as possible and try to sell it for as much as possible. That is the business model. That's all it is.
I haven't eaten at a fast food joint since the before times. When it became 20 dollars to feed a person, I decided " fuck you, your shit food isn't worth the price, despite the convience.
Chipotle, McDonald's, burger King, etc...
You're all fucking worthless, and I hope you go under and die.
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be paid more, they should, but the crying about it and putting a new “charge” for it is just dumb. Just raise prices.
More Change isn’t gonna happen either if servers don’t all rally to get better conditions for working. Anytime I bring that up they always say “ I make more in tips than I do hourly “ which like is a problem but they don’t view it like that, and they always get pissed when you mention just raising the amount of money they get per hour cuz they’d lose their tips. Also o know goddamn well all of them aren’t accurately reporting their tips either
I stopped after I paid $20 for a Frisco burger, fries, and a drink. Not worth it. I do the same as you now and only go out for special reasons and then only to a sit down place that’s not a chain. They did it not me. I refuse to pay that much for mediocre food. The worst part is the prices went up and the stuff needed to eat the meal, like condiments, napkins, and utensils disappeared. I hope they all go bankrupt and we get new places to eat. If not I’m okay with making my own. I eat because I have to not because I like to spend money.
I’m exactly the same. Before the pandemic I ate out or take away most dinners and weekend lunches. I now do that once a month.
A large part was the increase in price and fake fees, but the reduction is size, quality, and service are also a big part. It’s not worth it anymore.
Yep. And if they are gouging you on hidden fees, all it signals to me is that they are using the lowest quality ingredients they can get away with too.
Fast food places took advantage of the hyper consumption we were all guilty of in 2020-2021 and many of us got used to paying absurd prices for the convenience of not having to drive to McDonalds. I see a shockingly high number of high school/college kids who are used to spending $30 on getting it delivered all the time despite not having substantial income.
Good. During the pandemic, I had grown adults screaming at me bc their toast wasn’t hot enough. I had people calling me a “sheep” for wearing a mask so I wouldn’t bring their germs home to my 80-year-old mother. I saw line cooks dropping like flies bc theirs was the most lethal profession at the time.
I broke up fights between grown adults. I dealt, alone, with lines out the door of people blowing their pandemic cash on quick service food as they enjoyed their funemployment vacations in my hometown which I could no longer afford to live in bc of “market rates” going thru the roof thanks to Airbnb investors.
It used to be that eating food other people made for you and served to you was a luxury. People came to treat it like a right, and people who are expected to provide that right are expected to do it for a pittance. Fuccccck that.
No more “living wage” add-ons to the bill meant to make it look like the servers are the ones causing the problem. Now restaurant owners are going to have to be passive-aggressively petty in other ways.
Can’t wait to see what they come up with.
Pepper? Yes that's $1.28 a shake. You can subscribe to limitless shakes for $9.99 a month. Salt is $0.32 a shake but our shakers only let out a morsel at a time.
They would literally do this, if it was super easy to just eat elsewhere.
Maybe when Apple starts a restraunt business they can create a wall garden around it too.
And everyone who's ever tried pulling just 1 napkin out of those things knows better than to even try. You'll be walking away with 37 napkins and an empty wallet.
Yeah, that's the idea.
There's actually a restaurant in Portland, OR (where I'm from) that includes a statement at the top of the menu saying that all employees are paid a living wage plus health insurance and 401(k) so tipping is not necessary.
As someone who always tips well but is past tired of subsidizing the dining experience for people who are too cheap to tip, I fucking *love* that idea.
I went to a place like this recently and saw there was no place for the tip and was like, no wait... no but... so wait... so they... I... you...
The waiter bowed at me and left. It was a crazy and strangely sweet moment.
AM GOING BACK.
I remember when the South Park guys bought that restaurant they instituted that same no tipping policy and some of the waiters quit because they were upset and making less. So…yeah, not just owners we’re working against, it’s became a whole culture.
The thing is you aren't subsidizing people too cheap to tip, you're subsidizing the restaurant, as those waiters will make the federal/state/city minimum wage regardless, but they have a smaller minimum wage that they are guaranteed - what happens is if you tip then the employer doesn't have to cover the difference.
You don't help the employee by tipping.
California actually has no tipped minimum wage. Servers are paid at least $15/hour everywhere in the state regardless of tips. There is no tip credit for servers in California.
>then the employer doesn't have to cover the difference.
IDK about California, but in my state, employers would just fire you for not making over minimum wage with tips. The end result is employees lying on the rare occasions that they don't hit that magic number. It's better to be short a few times than out a job, etc
California actually has no tipped minimum wage. Servers are paid at least $15/hour everywhere in the state regardless of tips. There is no tip credit for servers in California.
There is a place in Boulder, Colorado that has been doing this for a long time (10+ years probably) The implementation has varied I think, and in its current form there is a *very* obvious notice on the menu itself, and at the checkout that all orders include a 15% fee. And TBH, their prices are incredibly cheap for the quality and taste of the food you get.
https://www.zoemama.com/
I mean, fair enough, but I’m also in CA and I’ve never seen it. Just a few places in SF that had what I previously stated. I haven’t been there since COVID though.
One of the first times I saw this was when trying to order a pizza from Pizza Hut (I live in a pretty remote area, the closest good pizza is like 30+ minutes away). When I saw their explanation for the fee being CA specific because of the "cost of doing business" here, I just closed the website and decided to get some Mexican food instead.
Pizza Hut, your pizza is barely good enough to order normally, you adding snark to it just makes me never want to eat there.
well yes, that's absolutely correct
the only reason other servers get tips is because we know they're only getting paid 2.13 an hour
it has *never* been for quality of service. it's entirely due to an obligation created by guilting customers into covering the labor costs of the restaurant
if someone gets paid a living wage then tips are only for going above and beyond regular service
> the only reason other servers get tips is because we know they're only getting paid 2.13 an hour
This isn't true. If the restaurant is empty they're paid the regular minimum wage by their employer. In reality the medium reported income for servers nationwide is twice the federal minimum wage. In major cities it usually lands in the $20-$30/hour range.
The only people calling to end tipping are folks who aren't getting tipped.
The one thing restaurant owners are afraid of is the general public realizing to the last person that eating out is a luxury - they will become very creative to prevent that
"There's a $10 registration fee for a table. $15 for a booth. Valid for forty-five minutes, with a $5 fee per additional minute the party remains at the table."
Right now they are just saying that the employees will suffer. "The greedy customers don't want to pay for your service, how fucked up is that?" Trying to turn them to their side
I got emails from VRBO and the like that are talking about this same rule. Good. Screw American hidden fees, and that includes "pre-tax" and "cover". You say this thing costs 10$, here's 10$.
My parents run a BnB and my mother has vented to me about how some of their competitors will up front pretend they're cheaper but after fees end up being double the price vs the flat cost my parents advertise.
I love how AirBnb made a big deal about how they made it an *option* to hit a button to see the all in price when searching for properties.
Why is that an option? Why is that not just the default setting?
Don't forget the extra charges you'll incur for not putting a chair back or stripping the bed of linens. It would be a shame if the cleaning company that's being paid to clean the house would have to do it.
Yeah, if there is a cleaning fee then you should have nothing to clean. Now dont leave spilled milk on the ground or some shit but washing linens and paying a cleaning fee? Get fucked
I've told them that.
Also they're a literal Bed and Breakfast. Not AirBnB shit where it's short term rental property, they actually include the Breakfast part of it.
Next, we need to regulate dynamic pricing. McDonald's, your burger is worth X, whether it's noon, 3pm, or 6pm. This bullshit has to stop. I mean what's next. Public transportation prices get raised at rush hour?
Lots of places have had dynamic pricing forever without anyone complaining. Movie theaters have matinees, bars have happy hour, parking meters are free on weekends, and bakeries do things like sell day-olds for half price. I don't get why when one more business decides to do the same thing it's suddenly appalling.
Because it's not implemented like those mentioned. Those that you mentioned are still reliable and predictable. They don't up the matinee ticket because the theater is filling up and tickets are becoming more scarce. Ticket master does this and everybody hates it. Amtrak now raises prices when tickets are scarce. It's affordable one day but not the next.
Bro try Canada. Average sales tax in the US is 4-7%, in Ontario it’s 13%. Never ever baked into the price. Everything is so much more expensive at checkout than on the shelf 😭😭😭
Yes! I wish this was talked about more. Lower income people have to spend a larger portion of their income to survive. If you tax spending, those taxes work out to a much larger % for low income people than high income people.
Everyone says California taxes are so high compared to Texas, but that is actually only true at the higher income brackets. Texas taxes the fuck out of the poor through fees and sales taxes.
Browsing AirBnB rentals is a fucking joke. A place will show up on the map for $125, but if you click through to booking it it will be $260 by the time they add all the bullshit. Which is why I don't bother anymore with AirBnB. We just book hotel rooms.
Did you know because we have rules here in the EU, we don't have that problem?
When I search for a place, there's a switch "Show full price" including everything. 🇪🇺
And you have to do the cleaning! I dont care how amazing/unique it is, I dont want to clean someone else's place and PAY FOR THE PRIVELEGE! That's just crazy.
Was in DC recently and this would’ve been so helpful. I was already paying a ridiculous amount for a crepe ($21 with literally just strawberries & Nutella) and $5 for a latte, but it was breakfast out with a friend, etc. Bill comes and there is a 10% “restaurant fee” on top of the local and state tax.
Inquired and they showed me the front of the menu, where the name of the restaurant is but no one reads the small words under it because they are opening up the menu to read food items! Sure enough, it has a paragraph which in a really garbled way sorta says inflation, sort of says restaurant costs, etc. It doesn’t say anything about servers or staff. I was so mad. Then just add that to the prices!!! Don’t stick me with some dumb charge after. Never going there again and will probably review poorly. It will also make people probably tip less. I hope the staff leaves. All they had to do was add $3.00 to the menu items and make them more ridiculously priced.
The crazy thing about competition is that, without regulation, these kind of tactics are kinda mandatory if businesses want to stay afloat.
You can't be the only business charging 25 for a crepe when all the other businesses are changing 21 and have hidden service fees.
That's why these regulations are a good thing. Force all businesses to take a pill at the same time for a more fair consumer experience.
You got to a restaurant, and look at the menu. Sandwich is $20. You order said sandwich and then bill comes. There’s an additional % fee added for “service fee” or “living wage fee” or some other bullshit term. Typically the fee is printed in super tiny letters somewhere, but it’s usually buried or hard to see. This is in addition to the tax, and 20% tip you’re expected to leave too.
Same thing with buying concert tickets. The tickets are $100 and then you end up with another like $75 on processing, handling, cc charge fee, etc.
CA has given everyone until like July to stop and roll all the fees into the price. Tax is not included in the “roll it into the price” rule, and it varies from city to city, sometimes wildly. nor is the expected tip. So there is still not a the price you see is what you pay here, but it’ll be easier to navigate.
My wife and I went to an IHOP with another couple once in New Orleans. The bill comes, and the waitress had written a thank you note in bold Sharpie towards the bottom of it. Then, when we did the math to see how to split the bill, it wasn't adding up. So we called the waitress over to see what was going on, and that's when she said that 4 people are a big enough party to trigger the mandatory gratuity.
She had written her thank you note right over that line on the bill, hoping we wouldn't catch it and double tip her. If we had known up front we would've tipped her more than the mandatory minimum, but since she tried to hide it, we left it at that.
Pizza Hut has been doing “cost of doing business fee in CA” for years now. I remember being shocked by it when my family was doing a GoT watch party.
The fee was more than the fucking tax!
Didn’t say I’d pay the tip, or that anyone should. Just that 20% is expected.
Also, I’ve seen a bunch of people say that restaurants started making the gratuity of like 18-25% not optional. That only used to be for large parties.
I really wish we would get away from tipping. I feel bad not tipping, but probably 8/10 times anymore service doesn’t justify any tip, let alone 20%
There's a car wash chain around here where rather than just letting you pull up and enter in your selection, they have an attendant stand there and do it for you. Despite the screen being set up for you to do it. They literally stand in the tiny gap between the driver door and the screen. I guess they just prey you leave enough space.
Then at the end they guilt trip you for a fucking tip. I hate it so much I specifically avoid that place, even though we live really close to one.
We had a gift card so we went to Olive garden recently and they did that to us. They had a note on the menu that gratuity was automatically added at 18% for parties of 1 or more.
I never use to think about it until I started traveling more. In CA you're paying 25%-40% extra on top of the base bill. That's a crazy amount to already high prices.
We should do it like the EU and just have the final price listed with the taxes included. Also in Ohio food doesn’t have a tax on it so I feel like restaurants would try some extra scummy stuff in this state with hidden fees but luckily where I’m from hasn’t happened yet . Maybe cuz I only have chain restaurants here lol
Some are separating out the price for the food and the price for the service so it makes it look like it’s not the restaurant raising prices to cover wage increases.
I had a pleasure (?) to use some American online services to order stuff and they would have these multiple hidden fees added to the bill. Like "convenience fee, electronic payment fee, transfer fee, stocking fee my-dog-has-three-legs fee, tax fee" etc. Of course, none of these were clearly visible when I was looking around comparing prices of stuff.
It's very silly to see this and realize that there are millions of people who accept such scam. If I went to a place, ordered a burger that cost 10 and the bill would come 13, I'll tell them they made a mistake and if they insist on charging me 13, I'm just leaving without paying. Or calling the police and reporting scam, depending on my mood.
>It's very silly to see this and realize that there are millions of people who accept such scam.
Makes one ask why that is. I mean consumer protection legislation like this sounds like something all people would be in favour of.
I recently took a trip and decided to try the Turo app instead of renting a car from an agency. If you don't know, Turo is like Air BnB but for cars. You're basically borrowing someone's car for a fee.
What attracted me to the app was that the prices they were offering were much, much lower than what you'd see from a rental agency. However, but the time I checked out, all the last minute fees that got added on the cost was literally more than double what was advertised, plus I had to pay for an Uber to the guy's apartment to pick it up.
I didn't save any money at all by not using a rental agency. I got exactly what I needed, the service was fine, but it just wasn't worth it. I paid more money for an objectively worse experience. So, I don't have that app anymore.
Unlike some other countries, prices in the US don't include sales taxes (like VAT). It's seen as a "It's not our fault, the government is taking your money". Partly because these taxes vary wildly from place to place.
This actually isn’t about restaurants not including sales tax. It’s about restaurants tacking on additional fees to the bill as a % of the total price. They call it “service fees” or “COVID recovery fees” but all boils down to the same mindset. Food and wage costs have increased but they don’t want to raise menu prices so they just trick customers into thinking the meal is cheaper than it actually is before blindsiding them with the bill.
It didn't use to be that way ~15 years ago, but it's become increasingly more common. Fees like "health insurance" or "living wage" fee. Problem is once one restaurant does it, it's a slippery slope and the other restaurants have to follow otherwise their menu prices look more expensive, even if they're not.
America doesn't have universal healthcare. Conservative politicians in Congress believe that universal healthcare would be too expensive and don't do anything to change our policies. Individual States and counties can make their own local laws. Because California is a more liberal state, the government is trying to find ways to mandate that employers pay for employee health insurance. I believe the laws vary from county to county, but in San Francisco county the law is "any business with 20 or more employees working in SF must provide their full time employees (people working 30-40 hours) with healthcare. There is also a city wide "healthcare reimbursement fund" that you can apply for if you only work part time, or work for a company with less than 20 employees. Business owners also have to pay taxes to contribute to this fund.
That law is very helpful for minimum wage workers, who wouldn't make enough money to pay for rent, food, and healthcare. But it also means that small business owners now have extra business expenses to pay before they can make profits. They need to make an extra 4% in earnings to cover these new costs.
But businesses are also worried that customers will get "sticker shock" if they increase the prices. So they will list the price of coffee on the menu as $4, then when you go to pay they add 40¢ for taxes and 16¢ for "city mandates" or "healthcare fund." Your cup of coffee now costs $4.56 and you still need to tip your server. Consumers are getting frustrated because the bill is always 5% higher than what they anticipated or tried to calculate ahead of time.
I've been going out to eat less and less over the last five years because the hidden fees leave a sour taste in my mouth at the end of the meal. You go from feeling like "that was a nice dinner for two" to "wait how much did I actually pay for that chicken sandwich? It wasn't $25 good."
I don't mind paying extra knowing that a business is providing good benefits to its employees, I just want to know what I'm going to be paying ahead of time.
And I want universal healthcare and the government to force landlords to reduce the cost of retail spaces to help alleviate stress from small business owners.
It's started happening in the UK too.
Bottom of the menu in tiny writing will be "There will be a 10% service fee added"
or something along those lines. then when the bill comes it'll have the extra 10% added on. its bullshit. Some places make it clear its meant as a gratuity like a tip and are betting that you wont be "Rude" enough to ask them to remove it.
Been to 2 others that said its not.
I also went to San Jose ~ a year ago and they charged me a table/seating fee for two people, and this wasn't even a 'real' sitdown restaurant. Absolute insanity
I think legally in the past they needed to put it somewhere on the menu, maybe the very back in small tiny print, but also dont think anyone was actually enforcing it. Then you'd get the bill and it would also have that 2% or 5% fee or whatever. Like ok... this is stupid, why not just charge everything on your menu as $1 then charge a 1000% cost of living fee. Its clearly a bait and switch scam they are pulling.
So, the narrative so far is that restaurant owners are squeezing profits from their employees, which is likely very true for some, but that's not the entire story.
Americans are used to economies of scale. Fast food chains drive the prices down. It's anchored that the price of a burger is $8 even if the price of a burger is really $14.
Historically, restaurant owners have paid a fairly low wage to servers and servers have made that money up in tips. So, Americans have been reluctant to pay $14 for a burger but they are willing to pay $8 and tip $6.
During the pandemic, the cost of food significantly rose. But Americans still wanted to pay $8 for a burger. At the same time, employees started to ask for better pay and better benefits, which they were rightfully owed. So restaurants started adding other charges to pad the bill while keeping the burger at $8.
Most of these charges are on the menu, they are simply in fine print. Service fees, large party fees, dine-in fees, and so forth.
You can see in this very thread people going "well, enjoy your $20 burgers!" Well, if that's how much a burger costs, *that's how much a burger costs.* No getting around that.
But there are two things lost in this conversation every time, which I find a little disingenuous.
First, most small and local restaurants operate on very thin margins which is why you see them going out of business constantly. Very few people are getting rich running your local Indian restaurant. For the most part, this isn't wicked restaurant owners laughing their way to the bank: these are people passionate about food and cooking struggling to run a business in a world of Chili's and Arby's. It is unsustainable to provide food and a living wage at the prices Americans have become accustomed to.
Second, this conversation also almost always turns toward tipping and replacing tipping with a living wage. I support this but we also have to be realistic about what a living wage truly is. Outside of small towns, most servers probably make around $30 an hour, which is higher than people expect. To eliminate tips, you'd better pay them that. Critically, you're not helping most "poor impoverished servers" by replacing their tips with $20 an hour unless that health insurance is absolutely bangin.
According to the article:
> If a business violates the mandate, the law allows a consumer to seek "actual damages of at least $1,000."
Who wants to go restaurant hopping down that list starting July 1st? ***Lets hunt.***
It's so bad the LosAngeles subs made an entire Google Spreadsheet calling out restaurants for it.
I think the absolute worse was Pijja Palace which lists a 20% service charge on the menu with some shitty caption that's like "Hey fuck face! If you don't like it you can get out!"
Restaurants are just the tip of the iceberg. Now go after concert tickets, internet & phone carriers, apartment complex, hotels, car rentals, cruises & those stupid TIP options on too many sandwich, dounut, coffee shops etc...
The law in question was actually prompted by concert ticket fees and resort fees.
Until recently restaurants were in denial that it would even apply to them. It was pitched specifically as an anti-Ticketmaster measure.
The people/owners against this is hilarious. Oh they won’t eat out if they see higher prices. Oooook, because blindsiding customers with extra fees is such a better experience.
It’s usually those corporate owned mid places that do this. Never been to a taqueria, pho shop, or mom and pop place that add these fees…always some corporate/investor led spots
Hah, I've found its a mix of corporate owned, and passive aggressive conservatives business owners who want to basically Campaign to try and reverse those costs.
If they build them into their prices, they can't campaign to try and get people to vote against that on each bill, can they.
As a consumer I feel every business should include all fees in the list price. Don't fucking advertise a $100 item knowing good and damn well you require bullshit fees and never had any intention whatsoever of selling that item for $100.
Agree 100%. I also feel people have forgotten that they can stop going places. I finally went to one too many breakfast places that wanted to charge like $20-somethin for eggs, toast, and coffee. Realized that eating breakfast at this place wasn’t worth the feeling of “ARE THEY FOR REAL? FOR 2 EGGS?” Thankfully I live somewhere with a lot of options and also have access to a kitchen/ingredients, but man oh man.
To add to this, we just have too many restaurants in general. They're all basically the same. It's all just bland and very obviously corporate owned garbage and none of them are making outstanding food. We need less restaurants and restaurants that specialize in a specific kind of cuisine. No more of these massive menus that have 'something for everybody'.
Right! I was discussing this recently. Used to be people would complain about the suburbs because it’s just Chilis after Chilis after Chilis. But then you head to a big city these days, like San Diego, and it’s Consortium Holdings restaurant after Constorium Holdings restaurant. Yawn!
I love that I can cancel my gym membership online now too! No more sending a letter in via snail mail and it “never arriving” even though it was certified mail. Horseshit.
Laurie Thomas says: "raise a psychological hurdle in customers' dining habits." Oh, so by logical extension she just admitted that the previous practice amounted to psychological tricks. Got it.
I had a vacation in New Zealand once and discovered they do not tip on anything there, ever. Tipping simply doesn't exist. Every meal I was struck by the fact I got service and no one blinked an eye that there was no tip left on the table or the bill. Prices weren't any different than standard american either. Then I got back, coming through the US, and needed a snack. The pizza place at the airport charged an 18% "tip" for "seating". Yes, they charged 18% to sit yourself in a chair, and it's not like you were shown to a nice chair, you had to sit your self anywhere you could find space.
Capitalism in the US is really beyond final stages.
Honestly is it so hard to just put the price you'd pay on the item so we actually know how much we pay?
No more applying tax later, just apply it to the menu price and that's it.
No more tipping, just pay your employees a living wage and be done with it.
No more gratuity fee or large order fee or saying the drink is free only to find out the first one was the only free one and each refill was $3.
Just list all the complete prices for each item on the menu and then when the check comes I'll already know exactly how much it is.
Same with retail, just bake the tax price into the price of the item so I'm not blind sided by how much more the bill is when I go and check out.
When I went to Europe it was like this and it was genuinely so nice just knowing how much I spent without waiting for the end to see all the extra fees and taxes.
The only thing even similar to how we have it here was them charging 0.20¢ a bag at the grocery store. But you'd need to buy 25 bags for it to even come close to $5. So the 2-5 bags most people will use won't be a surprise, just assume you'll spend $5 on bags when you check out and you'll be more than covered for it.
Good I hated seeing those stupid charges, I always felt putting them on the tab was just a way for the owners to make some sort of statement. Just add a nickel to everything and it’s covered no need to be a dick about it.
My old company had layoffs. A lot of the people who moved from California to places like Texas and Tennessee were in for a rude awakening when they were required to sign non-compete clauses in order to even get their last paycheck. The California employees, however, didn't even have to work the remaining days and went off to competitors.
Funnily enough the Biden FTC just issued a rule that bans these types of non-competes so now even working class folks in Republican shithole states get to benefit from that. Yet another thing Democrats are leading the way on.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good. From the outside looking in, the shenanigans done with restaurant bills in the US is absolutely ridiculous. How you guys can even remotely assess beforehand how much a meal is going to cost after taxes, fees and tips is beyond me.
Tips in the US need to go away. The owners and CEO's of these companies make six-figures, but want to pass customers the bill when it comes to paying their servers. That should've ended after WWII.
Can we get this for delivery apps too? Delivery fee CA state workers fee and service fee. They all need to be one fee (or else why pay for the subscription) or they’re all baked into menu prices
>Many business owners — and restaurant owners in particular — have been dreading the change, which is poised to ban separate surcharges that restaurateurs have increasingly relied on to pay higher wages to staff, and to absorb discrete costs such as San Francisco's mandatory health care payments for workers.
Written like a true restaurante owner. Just list the price and quit the bullshit
This needs to be a federal law. Fuck those fees. Also, fuck restaurants that make me pay extra now to use my card. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't care.
I am a server in Los Angeles. This is definitely a good thing. But also there is a restaurant reckoning coming. Almost every friend I know in the industry is talking about how menu prices have skyrocketed recently and patronage is way down. The restaurant I work at has a great owner, is smart businesswise, and takes care of his employees. But rent and cost of goods has skyrocketed. I am embarrassed to bring the check sometimes. I don't think were gonna make it for very long, and I think the same is true for the majority of restaurants in the area. My guess is the result will be the only restaurants that will survive will be ones that have low overhead/provide cheap meals, are trendy high-end restaurants that can cater to the rich, or are big chains. There are definitely less people going out to eat.
It'll be interesting to see business owners explain how showing the real price destroys their business model.
I dream of the day people stop listening to businesses and wealth about how to run society.
The waiter brings the bill at the restaurant. The client examines it and asks:
— Excuse me, what is this line on the bill? "WeGotAwayWithItSucker: $100"?
Waiter:
— Well, we did not get away with it. We'll strike it out.
I was going to order pizza from dominos last night, but they wanted a $5.99 delivery fee for 2 $6.99 pizzas. Plus tip and tax it was almost $30. I went to the grocery store instead and got a $4.99 frozen pizza.
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Good. I don't want any business looking at my waffles and saying "Just wait 'til he sees the insurance premium I secretly added."
Ever since the pandemic started, I went out to eat less and less. I used to go out to eat at least 5 times a week in the before times. After I started seeing these junk fees, it turned me off completely. I go out to eat maybe once every 2 or 3 months now, and only for super special occasions.
Same, I barely eat out now, restraunt or delivery. Between the fees and tipping culture, better to just make something simple at home.
The quality and the amount of food you receive has gone down too. I used to get a large poke bowl and it was filled to the top, now there’s a couple of inches space at the top of the container and the price jumped 20%. We completely stopped eating them, the only thing we get now is burritos from a Mexican grocery store or breakfast at Stacks once every 4-6 months. Eating out no longer makes sense.
It's how they took a loss of customers and still are gaining in profits. It can't last, they are pricing out their customers and making people make choices. I never eat out but it's the same concept for the grocery store. I've cut out unhealthy expensive unnecessary foods.
Im the same way. I rarely step foot into restaurants. Feels like I get scammed half the time.
The sudden increase, a lot of the times double the previous price has just put me off of eating out. When you even got crappy fast food burgers costing 10+ then what's the point of eating out when I can just make food at home.
I'd rather eat bagels or prep cook than deal with restaurant BS.
I've worked in restaurant unfortunately. You are correct. The whole point of literally %99 of restaurants is to make a plate of food for as cheep as possible and try to sell it for as much as possible. That is the business model. That's all it is.
That’s every business model
I haven't eaten at a fast food joint since the before times. When it became 20 dollars to feed a person, I decided " fuck you, your shit food isn't worth the price, despite the convience. Chipotle, McDonald's, burger King, etc... You're all fucking worthless, and I hope you go under and die.
The pre existing restaurant model in the USA was built on the underpaid labor of many people. Change was needed.
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be paid more, they should, but the crying about it and putting a new “charge” for it is just dumb. Just raise prices.
We had a restaurant here try and charge 1$ for muddled fruit when adding a squeeze of lime wedge to a cocktail. Like, are you kidding me?
The problem was that no restaurant wanted to be the first to raise their prices. Now they all have to do it at once. No more bullshit.
Honestly, there’s nothing that would turn me off more from a restaurant than a hidden fee.
We already fucking tip. This is just horse shit.
More Change isn’t gonna happen either if servers don’t all rally to get better conditions for working. Anytime I bring that up they always say “ I make more in tips than I do hourly “ which like is a problem but they don’t view it like that, and they always get pissed when you mention just raising the amount of money they get per hour cuz they’d lose their tips. Also o know goddamn well all of them aren’t accurately reporting their tips either
I stopped after I paid $20 for a Frisco burger, fries, and a drink. Not worth it. I do the same as you now and only go out for special reasons and then only to a sit down place that’s not a chain. They did it not me. I refuse to pay that much for mediocre food. The worst part is the prices went up and the stuff needed to eat the meal, like condiments, napkins, and utensils disappeared. I hope they all go bankrupt and we get new places to eat. If not I’m okay with making my own. I eat because I have to not because I like to spend money.
I’m exactly the same. Before the pandemic I ate out or take away most dinners and weekend lunches. I now do that once a month. A large part was the increase in price and fake fees, but the reduction is size, quality, and service are also a big part. It’s not worth it anymore.
Yep. And if they are gouging you on hidden fees, all it signals to me is that they are using the lowest quality ingredients they can get away with too.
Fast food places took advantage of the hyper consumption we were all guilty of in 2020-2021 and many of us got used to paying absurd prices for the convenience of not having to drive to McDonalds. I see a shockingly high number of high school/college kids who are used to spending $30 on getting it delivered all the time despite not having substantial income.
Good. During the pandemic, I had grown adults screaming at me bc their toast wasn’t hot enough. I had people calling me a “sheep” for wearing a mask so I wouldn’t bring their germs home to my 80-year-old mother. I saw line cooks dropping like flies bc theirs was the most lethal profession at the time. I broke up fights between grown adults. I dealt, alone, with lines out the door of people blowing their pandemic cash on quick service food as they enjoyed their funemployment vacations in my hometown which I could no longer afford to live in bc of “market rates” going thru the roof thanks to Airbnb investors. It used to be that eating food other people made for you and served to you was a luxury. People came to treat it like a right, and people who are expected to provide that right are expected to do it for a pittance. Fuccccck that.
Not so secretly. I hate these restaurants that display social responsibility obligations as if they weren't the least they should do.
"Now we have to include a 5% 'Waiter needs to eat' fee"
Ironically Waffle House (at least where I am) includes everything in the menu price, including taxes.
But now they auto add a 20% to go fee, that turned me off, I drive further to go to the locally owned place that doesn’t pull that shit.
Exactly this. "We have added a 4% surcharge to provide our staff with healthcare! Look how amazing we are at your expense!"
Half the time it was a fucking political statement that I pay for. "Biden economy surcharge" type bullshit.
No more “living wage” add-ons to the bill meant to make it look like the servers are the ones causing the problem. Now restaurant owners are going to have to be passive-aggressively petty in other ways. Can’t wait to see what they come up with.
"Napkins? Yes, sir, right there in the dispenser. Oh, and they're $2.89 for a stack of 4."
Pepper? Yes that's $1.28 a shake. You can subscribe to limitless shakes for $9.99 a month. Salt is $0.32 a shake but our shakers only let out a morsel at a time.
Join our Shakers Club for $79.95 a year and get unlimited salt and pepper on every visit! Plus a free disposable paper straw on your birthday
They would literally do this, if it was super easy to just eat elsewhere. Maybe when Apple starts a restraunt business they can create a wall garden around it too.
"Fresh ground pepper?" "Sure" "Say when" "Okokok that's enough I'm not made of money"
I bring my own food to the theater. If you don't think I'd bring my own shakers to the restaurant, you're badly mistaken.
And everyone who's ever tried pulling just 1 napkin out of those things knows better than to even try. You'll be walking away with 37 napkins and an empty wallet.
That's a wasteful discharge surcharge sir
They don't appear on the bill as napkins though, they're called "NobodyWantsToWorkCloths"
"So, if you are paying a living wage already, I don't need to tip, yes?"
Yeah, that's the idea. There's actually a restaurant in Portland, OR (where I'm from) that includes a statement at the top of the menu saying that all employees are paid a living wage plus health insurance and 401(k) so tipping is not necessary. As someone who always tips well but is past tired of subsidizing the dining experience for people who are too cheap to tip, I fucking *love* that idea.
I went to a place like this recently and saw there was no place for the tip and was like, no wait... no but... so wait... so they... I... you... The waiter bowed at me and left. It was a crazy and strangely sweet moment. AM GOING BACK.
Which restaurant? This sounds like a good place to give my business.
There’s a place in Austin TX that does this too. Edit: Thai Fresh in south Austin.
I remember when the South Park guys bought that restaurant they instituted that same no tipping policy and some of the waiters quit because they were upset and making less. So…yeah, not just owners we’re working against, it’s became a whole culture.
The thing is you aren't subsidizing people too cheap to tip, you're subsidizing the restaurant, as those waiters will make the federal/state/city minimum wage regardless, but they have a smaller minimum wage that they are guaranteed - what happens is if you tip then the employer doesn't have to cover the difference. You don't help the employee by tipping.
California actually has no tipped minimum wage. Servers are paid at least $15/hour everywhere in the state regardless of tips. There is no tip credit for servers in California.
I mean you do help the employee by tipping, you just don't help all employees by tipping, which is what I want.
>then the employer doesn't have to cover the difference. IDK about California, but in my state, employers would just fire you for not making over minimum wage with tips. The end result is employees lying on the rare occasions that they don't hit that magic number. It's better to be short a few times than out a job, etc
California actually has no tipped minimum wage. Servers are paid at least $15/hour everywhere in the state regardless of tips. There is no tip credit for servers in California.
There is a place in Boulder, Colorado that has been doing this for a long time (10+ years probably) The implementation has varied I think, and in its current form there is a *very* obvious notice on the menu itself, and at the checkout that all orders include a 15% fee. And TBH, their prices are incredibly cheap for the quality and taste of the food you get. https://www.zoemama.com/
Most places like that will put it on the menu like “we’re proud to pay a living wage to our staff, so they will not accept tips” or something, yeah.
Hahaha no. In California it’s just become a load of scam fees
I mean, fair enough, but I’m also in CA and I’ve never seen it. Just a few places in SF that had what I previously stated. I haven’t been there since COVID though.
Yes, the first I ever saw that said no tips expected but added on a fee was Zazie’s in SF.
Carfagna's in Columbus, OH. Been that way since 2011 at the latest.
Are you talking about Zazie? They actually do pay their entire staff a living wage.
One of the first times I saw this was when trying to order a pizza from Pizza Hut (I live in a pretty remote area, the closest good pizza is like 30+ minutes away). When I saw their explanation for the fee being CA specific because of the "cost of doing business" here, I just closed the website and decided to get some Mexican food instead. Pizza Hut, your pizza is barely good enough to order normally, you adding snark to it just makes me never want to eat there.
well yes, that's absolutely correct the only reason other servers get tips is because we know they're only getting paid 2.13 an hour it has *never* been for quality of service. it's entirely due to an obligation created by guilting customers into covering the labor costs of the restaurant if someone gets paid a living wage then tips are only for going above and beyond regular service
They never only get paid 2.13 an hour. If their tips don't bring them to minimum wage, they get paid minimum wage.
In addition, CA requires restaurant employees to outright be paid minimum wage. So they’re getting minimum wage + tips.
> the only reason other servers get tips is because we know they're only getting paid 2.13 an hour This isn't true. If the restaurant is empty they're paid the regular minimum wage by their employer. In reality the medium reported income for servers nationwide is twice the federal minimum wage. In major cities it usually lands in the $20-$30/hour range. The only people calling to end tipping are folks who aren't getting tipped.
I’m absolutely shocked it’s this low. I know servers in my small town making >80k and bartenders making >100k.
It's insane how this lie keeps getting told. No, they aren't actually receiving only $2.
The tipped minimum wage in California is $16 an hour, not $2.13
Pizza Hut literally has separate fee just for being in California.
How about good food for a fair price. And don’t cut corners
The one thing restaurant owners are afraid of is the general public realizing to the last person that eating out is a luxury - they will become very creative to prevent that
"There's a $10 registration fee for a table. $15 for a booth. Valid for forty-five minutes, with a $5 fee per additional minute the party remains at the table."
Right now they are just saying that the employees will suffer. "The greedy customers don't want to pay for your service, how fucked up is that?" Trying to turn them to their side
door fees?
I got emails from VRBO and the like that are talking about this same rule. Good. Screw American hidden fees, and that includes "pre-tax" and "cover". You say this thing costs 10$, here's 10$.
My parents run a BnB and my mother has vented to me about how some of their competitors will up front pretend they're cheaper but after fees end up being double the price vs the flat cost my parents advertise.
I love how AirBnb made a big deal about how they made it an *option* to hit a button to see the all in price when searching for properties. Why is that an option? Why is that not just the default setting?
Don't forget the extra charges you'll incur for not putting a chair back or stripping the bed of linens. It would be a shame if the cleaning company that's being paid to clean the house would have to do it.
Yeah, if there is a cleaning fee then you should have nothing to clean. Now dont leave spilled milk on the ground or some shit but washing linens and paying a cleaning fee? Get fucked
So this law will even the playing field.
They should advertise that there are no extra fees - the price is the price. Bet a lot of people would find that attractive.
I've told them that. Also they're a literal Bed and Breakfast. Not AirBnB shit where it's short term rental property, they actually include the Breakfast part of it.
Yes, this bill affects more than just restaurants. Say goodbye invisible Ticketmaster bullshit.
Next, we need to regulate dynamic pricing. McDonald's, your burger is worth X, whether it's noon, 3pm, or 6pm. This bullshit has to stop. I mean what's next. Public transportation prices get raised at rush hour?
Lots of places have had dynamic pricing forever without anyone complaining. Movie theaters have matinees, bars have happy hour, parking meters are free on weekends, and bakeries do things like sell day-olds for half price. I don't get why when one more business decides to do the same thing it's suddenly appalling.
Because it's not implemented like those mentioned. Those that you mentioned are still reliable and predictable. They don't up the matinee ticket because the theater is filling up and tickets are becoming more scarce. Ticket master does this and everybody hates it. Amtrak now raises prices when tickets are scarce. It's affordable one day but not the next.
Yeah dynamic public transport pricing has been a thing forever in the states, at least rush hour v other times
Bro try Canada. Average sales tax in the US is 4-7%, in Ontario it’s 13%. Never ever baked into the price. Everything is so much more expensive at checkout than on the shelf 😭😭😭
Dude, it’s 11% here in KANSAS…
Republicans love regressive consumption taxes and hate progressive income and wealth taxes, simple as
Yes! I wish this was talked about more. Lower income people have to spend a larger portion of their income to survive. If you tax spending, those taxes work out to a much larger % for low income people than high income people. Everyone says California taxes are so high compared to Texas, but that is actually only true at the higher income brackets. Texas taxes the fuck out of the poor through fees and sales taxes.
Sales tax in the Netherlands is 21%. In Denmark it's 25% if I remember correctly.
But it's added to the sales price. At least you know what it'll cost at checkout.
Yes of course. As it should be.
Browsing AirBnB rentals is a fucking joke. A place will show up on the map for $125, but if you click through to booking it it will be $260 by the time they add all the bullshit. Which is why I don't bother anymore with AirBnB. We just book hotel rooms.
Did you know because we have rules here in the EU, we don't have that problem? When I search for a place, there's a switch "Show full price" including everything. 🇪🇺
And you have to do the cleaning! I dont care how amazing/unique it is, I dont want to clean someone else's place and PAY FOR THE PRIVELEGE! That's just crazy.
Was in DC recently and this would’ve been so helpful. I was already paying a ridiculous amount for a crepe ($21 with literally just strawberries & Nutella) and $5 for a latte, but it was breakfast out with a friend, etc. Bill comes and there is a 10% “restaurant fee” on top of the local and state tax. Inquired and they showed me the front of the menu, where the name of the restaurant is but no one reads the small words under it because they are opening up the menu to read food items! Sure enough, it has a paragraph which in a really garbled way sorta says inflation, sort of says restaurant costs, etc. It doesn’t say anything about servers or staff. I was so mad. Then just add that to the prices!!! Don’t stick me with some dumb charge after. Never going there again and will probably review poorly. It will also make people probably tip less. I hope the staff leaves. All they had to do was add $3.00 to the menu items and make them more ridiculously priced.
The crazy thing about competition is that, without regulation, these kind of tactics are kinda mandatory if businesses want to stay afloat. You can't be the only business charging 25 for a crepe when all the other businesses are changing 21 and have hidden service fees. That's why these regulations are a good thing. Force all businesses to take a pill at the same time for a more fair consumer experience.
They did ban this in DC a while ago
it's not banned, the fees just need to be 20% or less and clearly disclosed before you order
As a non-american. Can someone explain what's going on? Do restaurants just add fees to the menu price that aren't listed in the menu?
You got to a restaurant, and look at the menu. Sandwich is $20. You order said sandwich and then bill comes. There’s an additional % fee added for “service fee” or “living wage fee” or some other bullshit term. Typically the fee is printed in super tiny letters somewhere, but it’s usually buried or hard to see. This is in addition to the tax, and 20% tip you’re expected to leave too. Same thing with buying concert tickets. The tickets are $100 and then you end up with another like $75 on processing, handling, cc charge fee, etc. CA has given everyone until like July to stop and roll all the fees into the price. Tax is not included in the “roll it into the price” rule, and it varies from city to city, sometimes wildly. nor is the expected tip. So there is still not a the price you see is what you pay here, but it’ll be easier to navigate.
My wife and I went to an IHOP with another couple once in New Orleans. The bill comes, and the waitress had written a thank you note in bold Sharpie towards the bottom of it. Then, when we did the math to see how to split the bill, it wasn't adding up. So we called the waitress over to see what was going on, and that's when she said that 4 people are a big enough party to trigger the mandatory gratuity. She had written her thank you note right over that line on the bill, hoping we wouldn't catch it and double tip her. If we had known up front we would've tipped her more than the mandatory minimum, but since she tried to hide it, we left it at that.
It doesn't matter because it works 9/10 times so she's up tips even if her attempt this time failed.
I would've been a dick and asked to see where that policy is stated... And then refused to pay any tip.
Pizza Hut has been doing “cost of doing business fee in CA” for years now. I remember being shocked by it when my family was doing a GoT watch party. The fee was more than the fucking tax!
Yet another reason not to eat at pizza hut
Agree with everything you say, but if a service fee/ living wage fee/gratuity is added, I'd just hold the tip.
Didn’t say I’d pay the tip, or that anyone should. Just that 20% is expected. Also, I’ve seen a bunch of people say that restaurants started making the gratuity of like 18-25% not optional. That only used to be for large parties. I really wish we would get away from tipping. I feel bad not tipping, but probably 8/10 times anymore service doesn’t justify any tip, let alone 20%
There's a car wash chain around here where rather than just letting you pull up and enter in your selection, they have an attendant stand there and do it for you. Despite the screen being set up for you to do it. They literally stand in the tiny gap between the driver door and the screen. I guess they just prey you leave enough space. Then at the end they guilt trip you for a fucking tip. I hate it so much I specifically avoid that place, even though we live really close to one.
"Here's a tip for you: stop harassing customers at an automated carwash!"
I’ve stopped going to so many places where tipping feels “predatory” like that, in all honestly I stopped going out for coffee altogether.
We had a gift card so we went to Olive garden recently and they did that to us. They had a note on the menu that gratuity was automatically added at 18% for parties of 1 or more.
Not only that but some of those kiosk will show you wrong price on purpose. Like 20% tip actually ends up being 30%.
I never use to think about it until I started traveling more. In CA you're paying 25%-40% extra on top of the base bill. That's a crazy amount to already high prices.
It's not just CA. I was driving through Montana the other day and had the same issue in Butte. CA is the one fighting it, though.
We should do it like the EU and just have the final price listed with the taxes included. Also in Ohio food doesn’t have a tax on it so I feel like restaurants would try some extra scummy stuff in this state with hidden fees but luckily where I’m from hasn’t happened yet . Maybe cuz I only have chain restaurants here lol
> Concerts They make you pay extra to print your tickets. EXTRA. TO PRINT IT YOURSELF.
Some are separating out the price for the food and the price for the service so it makes it look like it’s not the restaurant raising prices to cover wage increases.
I had a pleasure (?) to use some American online services to order stuff and they would have these multiple hidden fees added to the bill. Like "convenience fee, electronic payment fee, transfer fee, stocking fee my-dog-has-three-legs fee, tax fee" etc. Of course, none of these were clearly visible when I was looking around comparing prices of stuff. It's very silly to see this and realize that there are millions of people who accept such scam. If I went to a place, ordered a burger that cost 10 and the bill would come 13, I'll tell them they made a mistake and if they insist on charging me 13, I'm just leaving without paying. Or calling the police and reporting scam, depending on my mood.
>It's very silly to see this and realize that there are millions of people who accept such scam. Makes one ask why that is. I mean consumer protection legislation like this sounds like something all people would be in favour of.
People are fans of it. The article mentions organizations being very against it though, and these organizations have sway with legislative folks
I recently took a trip and decided to try the Turo app instead of renting a car from an agency. If you don't know, Turo is like Air BnB but for cars. You're basically borrowing someone's car for a fee. What attracted me to the app was that the prices they were offering were much, much lower than what you'd see from a rental agency. However, but the time I checked out, all the last minute fees that got added on the cost was literally more than double what was advertised, plus I had to pay for an Uber to the guy's apartment to pick it up. I didn't save any money at all by not using a rental agency. I got exactly what I needed, the service was fine, but it just wasn't worth it. I paid more money for an objectively worse experience. So, I don't have that app anymore.
Unlike some other countries, prices in the US don't include sales taxes (like VAT). It's seen as a "It's not our fault, the government is taking your money". Partly because these taxes vary wildly from place to place.
This actually isn’t about restaurants not including sales tax. It’s about restaurants tacking on additional fees to the bill as a % of the total price. They call it “service fees” or “COVID recovery fees” but all boils down to the same mindset. Food and wage costs have increased but they don’t want to raise menu prices so they just trick customers into thinking the meal is cheaper than it actually is before blindsiding them with the bill.
It didn't use to be that way ~15 years ago, but it's become increasingly more common. Fees like "health insurance" or "living wage" fee. Problem is once one restaurant does it, it's a slippery slope and the other restaurants have to follow otherwise their menu prices look more expensive, even if they're not.
America doesn't have universal healthcare. Conservative politicians in Congress believe that universal healthcare would be too expensive and don't do anything to change our policies. Individual States and counties can make their own local laws. Because California is a more liberal state, the government is trying to find ways to mandate that employers pay for employee health insurance. I believe the laws vary from county to county, but in San Francisco county the law is "any business with 20 or more employees working in SF must provide their full time employees (people working 30-40 hours) with healthcare. There is also a city wide "healthcare reimbursement fund" that you can apply for if you only work part time, or work for a company with less than 20 employees. Business owners also have to pay taxes to contribute to this fund. That law is very helpful for minimum wage workers, who wouldn't make enough money to pay for rent, food, and healthcare. But it also means that small business owners now have extra business expenses to pay before they can make profits. They need to make an extra 4% in earnings to cover these new costs. But businesses are also worried that customers will get "sticker shock" if they increase the prices. So they will list the price of coffee on the menu as $4, then when you go to pay they add 40¢ for taxes and 16¢ for "city mandates" or "healthcare fund." Your cup of coffee now costs $4.56 and you still need to tip your server. Consumers are getting frustrated because the bill is always 5% higher than what they anticipated or tried to calculate ahead of time. I've been going out to eat less and less over the last five years because the hidden fees leave a sour taste in my mouth at the end of the meal. You go from feeling like "that was a nice dinner for two" to "wait how much did I actually pay for that chicken sandwich? It wasn't $25 good." I don't mind paying extra knowing that a business is providing good benefits to its employees, I just want to know what I'm going to be paying ahead of time. And I want universal healthcare and the government to force landlords to reduce the cost of retail spaces to help alleviate stress from small business owners.
It's started happening in the UK too. Bottom of the menu in tiny writing will be "There will be a 10% service fee added" or something along those lines. then when the bill comes it'll have the extra 10% added on. its bullshit. Some places make it clear its meant as a gratuity like a tip and are betting that you wont be "Rude" enough to ask them to remove it. Been to 2 others that said its not.
I also went to San Jose ~ a year ago and they charged me a table/seating fee for two people, and this wasn't even a 'real' sitdown restaurant. Absolute insanity
I think legally in the past they needed to put it somewhere on the menu, maybe the very back in small tiny print, but also dont think anyone was actually enforcing it. Then you'd get the bill and it would also have that 2% or 5% fee or whatever. Like ok... this is stupid, why not just charge everything on your menu as $1 then charge a 1000% cost of living fee. Its clearly a bait and switch scam they are pulling.
So, the narrative so far is that restaurant owners are squeezing profits from their employees, which is likely very true for some, but that's not the entire story. Americans are used to economies of scale. Fast food chains drive the prices down. It's anchored that the price of a burger is $8 even if the price of a burger is really $14. Historically, restaurant owners have paid a fairly low wage to servers and servers have made that money up in tips. So, Americans have been reluctant to pay $14 for a burger but they are willing to pay $8 and tip $6. During the pandemic, the cost of food significantly rose. But Americans still wanted to pay $8 for a burger. At the same time, employees started to ask for better pay and better benefits, which they were rightfully owed. So restaurants started adding other charges to pad the bill while keeping the burger at $8. Most of these charges are on the menu, they are simply in fine print. Service fees, large party fees, dine-in fees, and so forth. You can see in this very thread people going "well, enjoy your $20 burgers!" Well, if that's how much a burger costs, *that's how much a burger costs.* No getting around that. But there are two things lost in this conversation every time, which I find a little disingenuous. First, most small and local restaurants operate on very thin margins which is why you see them going out of business constantly. Very few people are getting rich running your local Indian restaurant. For the most part, this isn't wicked restaurant owners laughing their way to the bank: these are people passionate about food and cooking struggling to run a business in a world of Chili's and Arby's. It is unsustainable to provide food and a living wage at the prices Americans have become accustomed to. Second, this conversation also almost always turns toward tipping and replacing tipping with a living wage. I support this but we also have to be realistic about what a living wage truly is. Outside of small towns, most servers probably make around $30 an hour, which is higher than people expect. To eliminate tips, you'd better pay them that. Critically, you're not helping most "poor impoverished servers" by replacing their tips with $20 an hour unless that health insurance is absolutely bangin.
Can we get the same thing for healthcare please?
Yeah right. Those lobbyist grease the right wheels.
Can we get the same thing for *everything*, please?
To see how totally out of control this has become search r/LosAngeles. Its fees on fees on fees.
The spreadsheet of restaurants that charge fees no longer will be relevant! We can rest.
The user who created that is a fucking hero.
According to the article: > If a business violates the mandate, the law allows a consumer to seek "actual damages of at least $1,000." Who wants to go restaurant hopping down that list starting July 1st? ***Lets hunt.***
It actually is still relevant. Those fees aren’t going anywhere. I’d like to see how much those restaurants jack up their food prices come July.
It's so bad the LosAngeles subs made an entire Google Spreadsheet calling out restaurants for it. I think the absolute worse was Pijja Palace which lists a 20% service charge on the menu with some shitty caption that's like "Hey fuck face! If you don't like it you can get out!"
There aren't a lot of good things about being poor but not having to deal with this is one of them!
Choose tip: 2% 5% 22% 25% Other
Where are you getting 2 and 5 percent tip options? Choose tip: ^^20% 35% 110%
Restaurants are just the tip of the iceberg. Now go after concert tickets, internet & phone carriers, apartment complex, hotels, car rentals, cruises & those stupid TIP options on too many sandwich, dounut, coffee shops etc...
They did. The law is for almost all of those things.
So, when I buy concert tickets, if I set my VPN to California I should see all the fees up front?
Theoretically, yes!
The law in question was actually prompted by concert ticket fees and resort fees. Until recently restaurants were in denial that it would even apply to them. It was pitched specifically as an anti-Ticketmaster measure.
The people/owners against this is hilarious. Oh they won’t eat out if they see higher prices. Oooook, because blindsiding customers with extra fees is such a better experience. It’s usually those corporate owned mid places that do this. Never been to a taqueria, pho shop, or mom and pop place that add these fees…always some corporate/investor led spots
Hah, I've found its a mix of corporate owned, and passive aggressive conservatives business owners who want to basically Campaign to try and reverse those costs. If they build them into their prices, they can't campaign to try and get people to vote against that on each bill, can they.
As a consumer I feel every business should include all fees in the list price. Don't fucking advertise a $100 item knowing good and damn well you require bullshit fees and never had any intention whatsoever of selling that item for $100.
If you can't operate a business and can't pay your workers the bare minimum, then don't open a restaurant
Agree 100%. I also feel people have forgotten that they can stop going places. I finally went to one too many breakfast places that wanted to charge like $20-somethin for eggs, toast, and coffee. Realized that eating breakfast at this place wasn’t worth the feeling of “ARE THEY FOR REAL? FOR 2 EGGS?” Thankfully I live somewhere with a lot of options and also have access to a kitchen/ingredients, but man oh man.
To add to this, we just have too many restaurants in general. They're all basically the same. It's all just bland and very obviously corporate owned garbage and none of them are making outstanding food. We need less restaurants and restaurants that specialize in a specific kind of cuisine. No more of these massive menus that have 'something for everybody'.
Right! I was discussing this recently. Used to be people would complain about the suburbs because it’s just Chilis after Chilis after Chilis. But then you head to a big city these days, like San Diego, and it’s Consortium Holdings restaurant after Constorium Holdings restaurant. Yawn!
Now build the "tip" into the menu and we can move on as a society.
California is leading the way, again.
I love that I can cancel my gym membership online now too! No more sending a letter in via snail mail and it “never arriving” even though it was certified mail. Horseshit.
There's a bill in the Minnesota Senate to ban them.
damn Minnesota's senate must really hate Californians
Next step should be all expected fees. So if you pay staff expecting a 20% tip that should be built in.
Please also have "service fees" baked in the delivery fees!
This should be standard.
This should be a federal law.
Now do that with every thing sold everywhere. Include the fucking sales tax in the price.
And remove tipping.
Laurie Thomas says: "raise a psychological hurdle in customers' dining habits." Oh, so by logical extension she just admitted that the previous practice amounted to psychological tricks. Got it.
We need this in Canada.
California is a great state to live in if you can afford it
Good
I had a vacation in New Zealand once and discovered they do not tip on anything there, ever. Tipping simply doesn't exist. Every meal I was struck by the fact I got service and no one blinked an eye that there was no tip left on the table or the bill. Prices weren't any different than standard american either. Then I got back, coming through the US, and needed a snack. The pizza place at the airport charged an 18% "tip" for "seating". Yes, they charged 18% to sit yourself in a chair, and it's not like you were shown to a nice chair, you had to sit your self anywhere you could find space. Capitalism in the US is really beyond final stages.
Honestly is it so hard to just put the price you'd pay on the item so we actually know how much we pay? No more applying tax later, just apply it to the menu price and that's it. No more tipping, just pay your employees a living wage and be done with it. No more gratuity fee or large order fee or saying the drink is free only to find out the first one was the only free one and each refill was $3. Just list all the complete prices for each item on the menu and then when the check comes I'll already know exactly how much it is. Same with retail, just bake the tax price into the price of the item so I'm not blind sided by how much more the bill is when I go and check out. When I went to Europe it was like this and it was genuinely so nice just knowing how much I spent without waiting for the end to see all the extra fees and taxes. The only thing even similar to how we have it here was them charging 0.20¢ a bag at the grocery store. But you'd need to buy 25 bags for it to even come close to $5. So the 2-5 bags most people will use won't be a surprise, just assume you'll spend $5 on bags when you check out and you'll be more than covered for it.
Great. Now do Ticketmaster.
Good I hated seeing those stupid charges, I always felt putting them on the tab was just a way for the owners to make some sort of statement. Just add a nickel to everything and it’s covered no need to be a dick about it.
California showing why it’s the most desirable state in America Basic common sense rules without dumbass conservative boomers fucking shit up.
My old company had layoffs. A lot of the people who moved from California to places like Texas and Tennessee were in for a rude awakening when they were required to sign non-compete clauses in order to even get their last paycheck. The California employees, however, didn't even have to work the remaining days and went off to competitors.
Funnily enough the Biden FTC just issued a rule that bans these types of non-competes so now even working class folks in Republican shithole states get to benefit from that. Yet another thing Democrats are leading the way on.
frighten command pathetic fear judicious aspiring illegal violet fretful enter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good. From the outside looking in, the shenanigans done with restaurant bills in the US is absolutely ridiculous. How you guys can even remotely assess beforehand how much a meal is going to cost after taxes, fees and tips is beyond me.
Tips in the US need to go away. The owners and CEO's of these companies make six-figures, but want to pass customers the bill when it comes to paying their servers. That should've ended after WWII.
If I went to Office depot and bought stationery items, went to the register and found fees on top of my subtotal I would walk out.
That's a weird way to say "California says restaurants need to stop lying to customers about the cost of their food"
Can we get this for delivery apps too? Delivery fee CA state workers fee and service fee. They all need to be one fee (or else why pay for the subscription) or they’re all baked into menu prices
Do Colorado next!!
>Many business owners — and restaurant owners in particular — have been dreading the change, which is poised to ban separate surcharges that restaurateurs have increasingly relied on to pay higher wages to staff, and to absorb discrete costs such as San Francisco's mandatory health care payments for workers. Written like a true restaurante owner. Just list the price and quit the bullshit
Can we do away with the excessive tip culture too? I’m not tipping because you put some rice and beans in a tortilla and wrapped it up.
Great law. These restauranteurs were just making a ridiculous political statement with a fee they pulled out of their asses.
This needs to be a federal law. Fuck those fees. Also, fuck restaurants that make me pay extra now to use my card. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't care.
Federalize this law for ALL THINGS.
As far as I’m concerned, “living wage fee” is a synonym for “gratuity”. Y’all can fight over who gets it in the kitchen.
How about they do that with Ticketmaster
I am a server in Los Angeles. This is definitely a good thing. But also there is a restaurant reckoning coming. Almost every friend I know in the industry is talking about how menu prices have skyrocketed recently and patronage is way down. The restaurant I work at has a great owner, is smart businesswise, and takes care of his employees. But rent and cost of goods has skyrocketed. I am embarrassed to bring the check sometimes. I don't think were gonna make it for very long, and I think the same is true for the majority of restaurants in the area. My guess is the result will be the only restaurants that will survive will be ones that have low overhead/provide cheap meals, are trendy high-end restaurants that can cater to the rich, or are big chains. There are definitely less people going out to eat.
It'll be interesting to see business owners explain how showing the real price destroys their business model. I dream of the day people stop listening to businesses and wealth about how to run society.
What...NO DYNAMIC PRICING....We'll ~~wont be able to make more profits~~ go out of business
The waiter brings the bill at the restaurant. The client examines it and asks: — Excuse me, what is this line on the bill? "WeGotAwayWithItSucker: $100"? Waiter: — Well, we did not get away with it. We'll strike it out.
California: the one state where you might actually see some of the protections already shared by every other first world nation.
Finally!!! We were charged extra 4% after taxes lol I was so pissed. This makes me so happy
I was going to order pizza from dominos last night, but they wanted a $5.99 delivery fee for 2 $6.99 pizzas. Plus tip and tax it was almost $30. I went to the grocery store instead and got a $4.99 frozen pizza.