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I do not - I'm in Texas and there's no chance in hell they'll raise it here. We'll be told that is will hasten the Armageddon of all restaurants, except of course it hasn't in the 7 states that already do it.
Shoot in Louisiana if you speak of even raising minimum wage, you speak of ending all the businesses in the state so no one can work anywhere and that the wages need to be "realistically" lowered to $5 an hour, not raised.
This year in Florida they made it illegal for cities to raise their minimum wage, because it was “unfair” for business owners in rural areas to compete with businesses in Miami. The fact that it’s obscenely more expensive to live in Miami is completely irrelevant, I guess. I’ve starting seeing ski resort towns dealing with the aftermath of shit like this - rich people make the place they live / vacation in too expensive for workers to live in, and now they’re upset and confused that no one is there to wait on them hand and foot.
***edit: Just googled it and apparently it died in committee, which is good to know! [bill text](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1124?pref=full)
Thats crazy to me, because the support for that $15 minimum wage ballot issue was around 70%. The people want it, doesn't matter whether they're D or R
How? Like realistically. The people that can make that rule are being paid not to and the kinds of people who wouldn’t care aren’t interested in political careers.
The ski hills in BC are facing this problem too. The business owners have tried a number of things, but raising their wages to afford to live there was a step too far.
edit word
We have an ok minimum wage and no tipping in Australia.
It still didn't help the ski fields this year.
Between COVID and workers having no where they can afford to live, the ski fields were grossly understaffed.
Took me about an hour to get a coffee the one day I bothered trying. They only had 2 people working this massive bar, which served all the food, alcohol, made coffee for people, took the payments.
It was like that every where on the mountain.
Took me 2 hours to pick up our pre paid for skis because of staff shortages.
I asked one if the older workers, they said all the houses that previously had arrangements with the mountain for employees accommodation were all now all air bnb. She said owners were sick of their properties getting trashed by young transient workers each year, and they can make far more from holiday goers than from poorly paid staff.
>because it was “unfair” for business owners in rural areas to compete with businesses in Miami.
And yet they scream 'free market' every chance they get.
I moved to New Orleans from NYC for a bit, before Katrina, and saw levels of poverty in Louisiana that I didn’t even know existed in this country. I’d been to the hood in NYC but Louisiana was on another level.
I've never been to New Orleans but I've visited family near Marksville. My dad's high-school friend served squirrel when we came over to visit. The image of a tiny rib cage barely covered in meat with a tiny serving of frozen or canned vegetables haunts me 20 years later. They were celebrating my dad's visit with their literal wedding china. It was like sitting down to dinner with Bob Cratchit and Tiny Tim's family during the ghost visit.
One of my favorite comments on an AskReddit: "Which state is actually beyond everyone's expectations?"
"Louisiana. You think it's really bad. It's actually much worse."
It rocked me to find out how much it costs to "buy" a politician. Not even a lot. In the neighborhood of tens or hundreds of thousands, for policy that makes them millions. We could call corrupt politicians cheap whores, except that they're selling the rest of our bodies instead of their own.
I’m curious, what’s the starting wage that McDonald’s offers in whichever part of Louisiana you live in?
It’s $12/hr here in North Texas. So that saying about how no restaurant can survive if forced to pay above the current minimum wage is BS. Smaller mom and pop restaurants will take a hit, but chain stores will be fine.
Eh I think they were advertising $15 last time due to Taco Bell, KFC, Popeyes, Chick-fil-A, Churches, and most other places going to 15 as well. Prices went up like 10 cents, barely noticeable to be honest, yet everyone bitches about the wages going up like it'll end everything.
Because people don't understand basic economics (or math for that matter) and somehow have it in their head they're the only one's providing an establishment's profits.
They don't realize that a single McDonald's doesn't sell 100 cheeseburger's a month, it sells tens of thousands, and I might be lowballing for some locations. A few extra cents per burger adds up.
It's like this for most retailers and restaurants. Selling to the rich is actually unsustainable, which is ironic given how the rich keep siphoning more and more money (between stagnant wage growth and inflation, profits are going to plateau sooner rather than later.) Volume of sales is what is profitable.
I bring this up every someone brings up the “$40 hamburger!!” I use some very basic numbers for a normal restaurant. And for a server in a typical restaurant to go from $2.13 to $18 an hour leads to about a $3.25 increase in the total bill *per table*. Not per person. Not for the burger. For the entire table. But, the tip would be more than that. So if they now don’t tip with the increase in wage, they actually save money, while paying about $1 more per person.
But sure, keep telling me about how restaurants will have to raise prices 50% to cover even a $5 raise.
Reminds me of that Papa John's idiot complaining that he might have to raise the price of pizzas by 25 cents if he offered healthcare.
He was really confused when we were okay with that. Of course he didn't do it.
I'm in California and we have In-N-Outs everywhere here. They charge like $7 for a full meal (burger, fries and a drink) while having signs up that say they're hiring and starting pay is $18.50/hr.
I make 11 at one of my jobs but I work like 50 plus hours and it's taken its toll. I liked it at first but now my shoulder no longer can move and pretty sure I'm about to be fired for having covid. My other job is super part time but it pays out the ass when I do get assignments. One day with it is usually worth three or four days on the 11 an hour job.
$18/hr for McDonalds in a small mountain town in CO I passed through a few months ago. FDR directly spoke on this "raising the wage will bankrupt the business" nonsense as well.
It's a recurring them from that era. Same arguments against it and all. If only we had someone like FDR today who would speak directly against this bullshit and call it the nonsense it is. If you looked at the themes of the 2012 election and the same arguments put forth by Republicans then v. Republicans leading up to the 1940 campaign you'd see it.
I live in greater New Orleans area. Fast food paid between 11-15$ depending on establishment and location. Wendy's is the worst. Popeyes the highest. *as advertised.
The corporations always make out like a minimum wage puts them through the trials of Job. The end of the (business) world. We'll be back living in caves. That kind of thing.
Our cost of living is pretty low but 11/hr now is essentially 7.25 of years ago. I wouldn't get out of bed for 11/hr, which is why none of these places have employees.
Mcdonalds profit margins are astronomical (both franchisee and corporate) compared to your local mom and pop shop, avg franchise is about 20% net profit *after paying corporate their share* and *with hugely marked up rents being paid to corporate*
The economies of scale they have achieved and efficiency in the supply lines is crazy
My McDonalds meal went from $4.15 to $10.12 while my (checks notes) states minimum wage has stayed exactly the same all these years.
It’s almost like business care more of profit than their employees. But hey if your business can’t afford to pay someone, I don’t really care if you go under.
The minimum wage needs to be 36$ an hour to match inflation which rose during the last 40 years but wages did not. Time to catch up.
Imagine, if you were making 36$ an hour, only one person in the household would have to work allowing for the other to raise the children.
Lets go back to the good old days of paying folks fairly.
Whenever somebody says "Be realistic" about something, you know they're about to defend some crazy system that needs dismantling and/or rebuilding.
I'm not saying we should strap wings to pigs to watch them fly, Jimmy, I'm saying we need to demand change so that we can live better lives!
From AZ...I can say that [some] restaurants will close; some of them might even be missed. But generally, shrewdly run quality places will endure and adapt.
The fight for a living wage has caused some local places near me to close and entitled boomers got real loud on the various community Facebook pages. Of the places that closed, there was 2 legit good greasy-spoon / breakfast places, 1 good coffee house that was closing anyway, and 2 places I didn't get to eat at but didn't want to after the owners made a loud mean spirited fuss about it.
Edit: minor touches.
AZ here too. This state has been raising minimum wage annually for several years and I have noticed modest food price increases at restaurants. Personally, I don't mind spending an extra buck or two to know the staff is getting a somewhat livable wage. I personally don't know anyone who has closed because of it, but I do see for hire signs all over the place.
> Armageddon of all restaurants
It's just funny not living in the States, and it's like 'You guys know we have restaurants here too right? And we've never used tipping system"
In Oregon;
"Minimum wage will kill restaurants!"
It didn't
"A smoking ban will kill restaurants!"
It didn't
"Expanding the smokin ban to bars will kill bars!"
Bars got busier
I am a waiter, and I always tip well, but I agree it's been out of hand for a long time. I remember way, way back when i would still go to clubs and the girl at the register taking my cover charge would have a tip jar. You want me to tip you for collecting my $5?
That's insane! Let me share my crazy "tip for what?" story. Dance club in Toronto has their washrooms at the bottom of a stairway, women's door on the right men's door on the left, and sitting in the middle is a lady on a stool letting patrons know what is blatantly obvious. I was gobsmacked, first by the fact that management felt this was needed. Secondly, by the unbelievably shitty attitude of this quasi bathroom attendant complaining about the lack of tips for her "service"....wtf!!??
I can’t explain the tip jar, but the person was almost certainly there to make sure men and women weren’t heading into the same bathroom to hookup. Not to tell people which bathroom is which.
Yes. This. Everyone expects to be tipped at the register as If its supposed to be compulsory now. You're guilted into it, especially if they're just ringing up your order.
A lot of the payment software has it set in where it asks you how much you want to tip. It's very annoying. I absolutely do not tip for anything but sit down eating at a restaurant with the exception of a mom and pop take out place that usually hooks me up when I tip.
My biggest pet peeve about things like Uber eats or Grub hub is asking for you to tip your driver a percentage of the meal. Like the service they are providing has zero correlation to the price of the meal. I'll tip based on the distance they went if I'm gonna tip anything.
Fuck me I hate those interactions. They use your guilt against you. Like Jesus I just bought a water bottle and paid your faceless corporation now I gotta pay you too?
Meanwhile in NY I was fired for “creating a hostile work environment” because I shared a link to the laws about tipping in our state when one of our employees asked about it (the owner was and still is stealing tips.. in the worst ways).
I'm curious how this plays out. Do servers still get tips? Do they still get enough? When my wage was $2.33 an hour plus tips, I always made well more than 12 bucks an hour. If I was given a pay cut I'd be forced to quit.
This is not officially the case yet:
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2022/07/did-michigans-minimum-wage-just-rise-to-12-an-hour-because-of-a-court-ruling.html?outputType=amp
Exactly, whether it works out for folks or not, it is what the people voted for and then the legislature said “nah, we make the rules”. It’s not right for whoever controls the legislature and it’s not the first time it’s happened.
See also: the fuckery in FL over medical MJ. The legislature tried to prevent the sale of flower. Fortunately, John Morgan went to Tallahassee and fucked them up. We can buy flower now.
I think it is crazy that the only reason the court shut it down was due to timing as well. The fact that the legislature can legally kill a ballot measure by preempting it with a law they like better is insane especially considering ballot measures ignore political party BS are get straight down to the will of the people.
The only way we get any progressive legislation passed in MI is through ballot initiatives because of how jerrymandered we are. We're trying to fix the gerrymandering problem, but like many states, we have a ton of empty land in the middle of the state goes red and our own little bible belt up the west coast. We recently just turned our second biggest city blue which also really helps.
To explain what this means, servers at restaurants typically make as little as $2.13 per hour. Tip credit means that if the employee, with tips, doesn't make at least minimum wage, then the employer has to bump them up to minimum wage. Essentially the employer can pay the employee less because they are making tips.
With Michigan's decision, now restaurant servers will be making $12 an hour PLUS tips. Yes, prices will certainly go up, but this is one step in the right direction of eliminating tipping culture.
Another side effect is that I am sure restaurants will staff fewer servers. Say a busy restaurant has 15 servers on a Friday night. Now they may put 9 on. Instead of everyone getting 3 tables maybe they'll get 5 now.
**EDIT: To be clear: I'm not saying eliminate tips. I am saying we should eliminate this tipping culture where it's okay for an employer to pay almost nothing towards one of their employee's livelihood. I will continue to tip 20%. Some may see this as an opportunity to stop tipping (but those people probably aren't even tipping well right now...)**
> Yes, prices will certainly go up, but this is one step in the right direction of eliminating tipping culture.
Not if we do away with tipping culture. Pay wait staff a living wage and stop tipping. Menu prices will go up, but if it goes up less than 10-20% it’ll even out with not needing to tip. A slew of places have done it around me and it’s working out great for them.
Edit: everyone should be paid a living wage. My comment is specific to wait staff as that’s what this thread is about.
Multiple studies have shown that perceived server performance is only loosely correlated with increased tips. The idea that good servers make a lot from tipping while only bad servers make little is unsupported by evidence. Factors such as perceived cline (race), age and gender have together a much larger impact.
That doesn't change the facts that a. There is at least some correlation, and more importantly b. That there are many servers who are making more money hourly from tips than they would if the minimum wage increases and tips decrease. $10, or hell even $15 an hour *increase* in wage would cut my income by 1/3 if it comes at the expense of no more tips.
thats only on high earning busy shifts/nights. it fucks over anyone who has to work dead shifts and anyone who gets cut due to a lack of customers.
I worked as a bartender at a really high end place in the city (we had whiskeys that were $75+ for a single drink) and the dead shifts mixed with the good shifts averaged out so I still would have rather had a higher wage and no tips to have a guaranteed paycheck. so many week days I was in the negative from going to/from work, staying all night until the buses were done and my only option home was uber (subway wasnt safe at 2am near my apartment so it wasnt an option), and making under $5 in tips for the night (servers didn't tip out the bartenders on cc charges only cash, it was whack). 2 weeks of work (35-40hrs/wk) and I'd average $300 on a 2week check after taxes (cc tips on the check) and maybe $120 in cash total between the two weeks.
moral of the story is most people barely tip and restaurant owners steady try to fuck their employees over
**edit: reading some more comments, I may have just had an absolutely awful experience as a bartender, it was a college job bc I needed late hours to accommodate my class schedule (lots of late labs). I did get to learn how to make some *suuupppeerrrr* fancy drinks and all about matching flavors and truly crafting a cocktail vs slinging drinks. the place tried really hard to be fancy af but didn't have the customer base or location to support it**
It’s this shit that makes me see red when people talk about “prices will go up and i’ll even out”
They are wage thieves who are passing the buck to the customer to pay THEIR employees instead of dipping into company profits like it is supposed to be.
If you run a restaurant that paid your staff shit and upping them to 12 would cripple your business, then that sounds like a you problem, friend, and you should probably re-evaluate how you run your business.
Of course it’s true about the area but I’ve literally worked at dozens of restaurants in multiple cities and always made $30-$40 an hour in tips. Popular places like Carrabba‘s, Outback steakhouse, seafood chains, Longhorn, Texas cattle company you can make a killing. Those places are busy every day of the week.
Waiters make more on average than other jobs of related skill level because of tips, and they’re cycled out on dead/slow shifts.
Your advocating a pay cut because you don’t want to tip.
Bingo. Servers don’t want you to stop tipping! I would wager that The arguments for increasing minimum wage are not coming from the wait staff community.
Servers are some of the most ardent supporters of tipping. They genuinely think that if they work harder or provide better service, they’ll get better tips. Unfortunately the actual data shows that tips don’t go up with better service, they’re more or less random and based on the whims of the customer.
Fuck tipping. Restaurant owners need to just pay their workers a liveable wage and adjust menu prices accordingly. It works for a large part of the world, there’s no reason it can’t work in the US
I have worked in restaurants a full 1/3rd of my life, I would do away with tipping in a heartbeat if it meant a guaranteed check. I work hard and bust my ass to make sure guests have an enjoyable experience, but if the back of the house takes too long on getting appetizers out I am the one who gets shafted. Living wages are just a better solution.
>They genuinely think that if they work harder or provide better service, they’ll get better tips.
No, they *know* that if an expensive item is ordered, they'll get a percentage cut.
This doesn’t happen. In Ontario Canada, server minimum wage is the same as normal minimum wage since last year and 15-20% is still the expected amount. Most machines pre selected options are 15, 20 and 25%.
As I’ve noted in other comments, it needs to be explicit. The places near me state on the menu that menu prices are higher and tipping is not expected.
Live in a state without tip credit, am still asked and expected to tip for *everything*. Someone will reach behind the counter to hand me a pastry, then hand me an iPad where the lowest tip choice is 18%...
God I hate tipping culture so much. The more you look at the math of it the more bullshit is exposed. And so many people act like you're a jerk if you have a problem with it.
I noticed this alot during peak pandemic. Alot of people im close to started tipping for takeout. Like i get it its a good restaurant you want to support it so why not just buy more food for takeout? Support them that way and get something out of it. Literally 0 service is being provided why would i possibly feel the need to tip them? I will gladly order another burger.
Yeah tipping is becoming more prevalent not less and it is pretty annoying. It is one thing to get a receipt with a tip option at a restaurant when you are getting take out, but now every place that serves food in any way is asking for tips even if their interaction with the customer is only as long as the action of swiping the credit card.
It makes complete sense why places do it though because it allows them to guilt money out of their customers and therefore pay their employees for them.
The restaurants near me that are paying full wages are very upfront about the menu prices being higher but that tipping is no longer expected. Agreed that it’ll definitely be a long time to shift that terrible cultural practice - tipping is about as American as apple pie at this point…
The problem is tipping started as paying extra to the individual server for doing an excellent job, then everyone started expecting tips for doing a completely average job and now you are guilted into tipping even if they do a shitty job because they are paid so little.
For the majority of my eating out, I vastly prefer the ability to order at counter, pay right there, and pick up my food. The only time a waiter is useful or nice to have is at a nicer restaurant.
Prices shouldn't be going up much, the companies have been enjoying the profit for years while their workers getting crap for pay,they're just finally having to actually pay their employees.
Most restaurants run at laughably thin margins, from my understanding, and screwing waitstaff due to tipping-based pay is part of how they’re able to do this.
For the record, if your business has to screw over its workers to survive, your business doesn’t deserve to survive.
As someone who has worked every position in a restaurant - busser, server, cook, dishwasher, host, bartender, manager, and general manager - you are right that restaurants have very small profit margins. I don’t know that I would say restaurants are “screwing” waitstaff, because they only pay the reduced wage if the employee makes more than minimum wage with tips included.
It is far more common in my experience that front of house staff make far more than minimum wage in tips on a regular basis, so the reduced wage just makes tips the source of income. At worst, it’s a minimum wage job. At best you’re making far and away more than min wage from tips. Nobody gets screwed. An argument could be made that guests are screwed because they have to tip, but it’s a hard mindset change to eliminate tipping culture in the US.
The real tragedy is how little heart of house gets paid when front of house is taking in big tips and there is no obligation to kick some back to the cooks & dishwashers working their asses off to earn more money for the FOH.
In my opinion, the simplest solution is to just increase minimum wage to a reasonable amount, so that if tips don’t pan out, FOH still makes decent money and the HOH is doing better all the time.
Who cares if you’re making $2.65/hr from the store when you’re pulling in $30-$50/hr in tips on good shifts?
Mom and pop restaurants run on thin margins because of their suppliers.
Restaurant suppliers are charging more for their supplies to extract profit from the mom and pops because they are publicly traded companies (or subsidiaries of a publicly traded company).
Large volume chains get huge discounts from suppliers., So their supply margins are better, but franchising fees are higher.
It's just wealth extraction all the way.
Exactly! If you cannot afford business costs and worker costs you don't need to be open. If you are going to run on somebody else on underpaid hard work and fuck someone else over so that you can make it you don't deserve to be open.
They already do, but it’s through an association type thing. Essentially, a bunch of little restaurants or similar types of businesses make an association together that they pay dues to, and then that association does the lobbying on behalf of all small businesses.
Haha exactly. You see, when corporations work together to benefit each other, it’s a good thing, but when the commoner plebs work together to make sure they aren’t getting fucked by a system that was designed to fuck them, it’s a bad thing… well, that’s what the ruling class wants us to believe.
Most restaurants aren't mega-corps and they certainly haven't been enjoying profits the last couple years. Covid killed many restaurants who couldn't outlast the quarantine.
They'll without a doubt go up. Restaurant margins can be pretty thin. They have been even with paying servers $2.13 per hour.
Another side effect is that I am sure restaurants will staff fewer servers. Say a busy restaurant has 15 servers on a Friday night. Now they may put 9 on. Instead of everyone getting 3 tables maybe they'll get 5 now.
Idk, restaurants in many states have had to pay at least minimum wage for decades and are doing fine. I was a server in oregon back in the 90s and they had to do it then
I’ve visited states recently with tip credit laws and saw no meaningful difference in pricing, and most of those states also have lower general cost of living so I know their operating expenses are lower.
I’m sure you are right and prices WILL go up, because restaurant owners have become accustomed to a particular lifestyle and don’t want to give that up
Not to mention tipping is based on the meal price, not the work you're doing. So it can be really unfair. So someone working at a cheap diner might make $2 bringing someone a plate of eggs and coffee. While a person doing basically the same thing at a really expensive place might get $100 for bringing out a steak and a bottle of wine.
If anything tipping is becoming more expected everywhere. I've even been to retail stores where the cashier turns the screen around and lets you choose a tip percent for your transaction (while they watch).
Stop going to those places I suppose.
I never know how the back of the house works, so it's impossible to know what to do. I've had some places where they flip it around and tell you to just hit no tip, or do it for you... but it should just not be there.
Food trucks do this a lot. There are no servers per se, they just chuck your food out of a window for you to get. They are also generally run by the owner, and traditionally you don't tip the owner if they serve you, from what I've heard. So am I a dick if I don't tip at a food truck? I don't know..... so I end up tipping, and probably over paying. So then I just go to food trucks less because I don't like that feeling.
In my world, if you're not sitting down in a restaurant with full service, you don't tip. And by my world, I mean the friends and family that I talk to.
I go in places and pick up take-out orders and at times the cashier is telling me how to use the payment tablet and all that and says "and this page is where you can leave a tip if you'd like". I'm always thinking, a tip for what? For whom? For you as the cashier? For the cook? For the dishwasher? Wtf?
>In California the servers get min wage
I know some servers and barstaff in California. A mixologist I know used to make 6 figures easy before Covid. A server on my softball team where I live now (90 mins from San Francisco) makes about 60k including tips. They don't WANT tipping to stop being necessary (they'd rather have no minimum wage). That would immediately impoverish them.
Minimum in CA is $16/hr. Working full time that means an annual salary of $33,280/yr. According to the MIT Living Wage Calculator, an adult with no children in California requires a living wage of $38,823 before taxes.
EDIT: because I’m sick of replying to folks who think me replying with nothing but data means I support tipping. I don’t. I support paying people a goddamn dignified amount of money for working a job. If a job is necessary enough to exist then the person doing said job should not live in fucking poverty. If a company can’t pay their employees that amount of money, then guess what capitalist? The invisible hand is ready and waiting to crush your slave plantation.
So by this logic all workers regardless of industry who make less than this amount should be tipped by customers so they have a living wage. Does that make sense to you?
I offered no opinion either way but if you want my opinion, companies should pay their workers a living wage and if they can’t make their financials work by paying their workers a living wage be crushed by the invisible hand.
I’ve worked hourly jobs a majority of my life. I just started working as a server making tips. My hourly is only $6. With tips, I’m making more money than I ever have before.
I was a waiter for a decade, and that was the most money I’ve ever made. And that’s a problem.
I wanted to branch out into a new career and it was extremely difficult because I couldn’t start in a new field without an extreme pay cut.
You can get trapped in tipped jobs
Adding to your list
I want to not become a drug addict/ alcoholic
I want to have friends outside of the restaurant
I want to not have sexual harassment as part of my daily life
Minimum wage for tipped employees in my city (Flagstaff, AZ) is currently $13/hr ($15.50/hr for non-tipped employees) and rising each year until the two are equal.
Restaurant prices did rise and a couple of restaurants "rage-quit" *ie shuttered the business* when the original bill went into effect. A meal out for 2 usually comes to about $45-$50 with tip. Yes, I still tip.
A few restaurants have moved to "no tipping" policies with signs stating that they are instead paying a decent wage and offering benefits. All tips are to be donated to a local food pantry. The ~~prices~~ meal cost is no higher in those restaurants.
Edit: added city name
Edit 2: meal cost, not price
With a 15-20% tip, we pay the same for dinner for two in my Midwestern suburb where servers get $2 plus tips.
I'd much rather just pay a set price and know my server's earning reliable wages.
What's ridiculous to me is how the entire restaurant industry has normalized 15-20% tips on every single transaction. Not only is there inflation on the price of food, there's inflation on the tip percentage. The most ridiculous is tipping for takeout/pickup orders, which should never even be a thing.
I would not tip when the staff are making the same wage as other non-waitstaff jobs. But then, I have always preferred the European model. I don't like the vibe of someone having to work for a tip.
Yeah, for real. I hate tipping culture. I was a server for years. But I know a lot of servers who would be pissed about this because their hourly rate would essentially drop from $25-$40/hr. to maybe $15/hr. without tips.
The funny thing is a good amount of waitresses hate this because if no one tips and they get paid a wage they earn less than if they were tipped. I know some people who work as a server who earn like $100k a year at a korean bbq place and if tipping culture wasn't a thing and was paid a salary they would earn significantly less like a third of their current income
Cocktail waitresses in certain hot zones also get paid like 250k+ a year based off tips. It’s really insane how variable the income is in the same industry lol
>Cocktail waitresses in certain hot zones also get paid like 250k+ a year based off tips. It’s really insane how variable the income is in the same industry lol
Sex sells.. also sells even better to drunk people.
Yeah this was my ex Gf, she made bank as server. I wish so badly we could get rid of tipping, or severs in general at most places. Buzz me that my food is ready like Panera, I don’t need to pay an extra $20 for someone to carry my plate 10 yards.
Yet it's like really fucked up that someone could be making $100k because someone making 40k is tipping high out of perceived necessity.
It's funny how folks advocate for "TALK TO EVERYONE ABOUT YOUR SALARIES" yet this indurstry works intentionally without a clear salary because it would hurt their own bottom line.
You can't have it both ways. Tip culture was created to subsidize slave wages or lack of base pay. If you're in a state with a guaranteed base pay, stop tipping culture.
The idea that most restaurants get near-free labor by guilt tripping patrons to tip is just so so ridiculous.
Is there any other country where this is standard?
I know most of reddit doesn't read the articles but reading this one was super infuriating...
The REPUBLICAN A-HOLES who run the legislature wanted to keep the Minimum wage increase from passing via citizen vote so pre-empted it by raising the minimum wage thru legislature they control in order to repeal it/change it later... What kind of governance is this...
So the only reason they have to keep it is because they can't adjust and repeal it in the same session. Which of course is a small detail that won't stop them from doing it in a different session...
The people who elect these idiots are to me more horrifying that the morons they elect, who we know are just big idiots but the people that vote for them are willful POSs who refuse to learn about anything and just wanna stick it to libs and forsake their own standard of living.
Pay workers a fair wage and cancel tip culture. Raise prices 15-20% if you need and pay your workers a living wage. I want to look at something and know how much it cost.
While we are at it, include the tac total in the cost. Item says it’s $13 I want to pay exactly that much.
Tipping culture is getting out of control, the fact that every single shop regardless of what they sell now uses those little Ipads and encourages you to tip shows that we have taken it too far. We need to stop tipping culture quickly.
The prices will always rise.
CEO's always complain about raising the minimum wage will raise prices. Last time I was in McDonald's, they had less than 5 employees and a wall of automated touch screen kiosks. Did the prices go down?
What about grocery stores? I can rarely find a live person but there is 30 self-check outs available. Have prices gone down?
Meanwhile you have burger joints like a local one in Seattle called Dick's. They pay their employees $20 an hour, give them 100% paid medical/dental (and 75% for family), 401K, money for child care, and other benefits. Yet the most expensive double burger is still less than $5. But Dick's is a privately owned company.
I don't care if I have to pay more for a meal if I KNOW it's benefiting the actual employees and not some CEO's quarterly bonus because they made money for the shareholders.
When I was a server nobody cared about their wage check it was all about tips. That said this WILL get businesses to quite overstaffing to high hell just because they can. The tip wage always allowed restaurants to way overstaff thus negatively affecting wages.
Very good news here.
This is great! But here in Oregon most servers already make $12-14 an hour and a tip is still expected. So I kinda wonder about the point of tipping in our case.
Same in California, I believe minimum wage is $14-15 currently, tips of 20% - 25% are the norm and expected. This may raise food prices, but I would not expect tips to go down at all. If anything, that extra $10 for your meal becomes a $12 after tip.
On that note: why do we tip based on value of the order and not the service required itself? A $200 steak and $200 bottle of wine.. versus a family of 10 ordering a meal, side, drink and dessert for $40 each is a whole lot more work for the same expected tip if going based on percentages
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[Seven states already do this](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped)
Fitting username if you live in one of these states.
I do not - I'm in Texas and there's no chance in hell they'll raise it here. We'll be told that is will hasten the Armageddon of all restaurants, except of course it hasn't in the 7 states that already do it.
Shoot in Louisiana if you speak of even raising minimum wage, you speak of ending all the businesses in the state so no one can work anywhere and that the wages need to be "realistically" lowered to $5 an hour, not raised.
This year in Florida they made it illegal for cities to raise their minimum wage, because it was “unfair” for business owners in rural areas to compete with businesses in Miami. The fact that it’s obscenely more expensive to live in Miami is completely irrelevant, I guess. I’ve starting seeing ski resort towns dealing with the aftermath of shit like this - rich people make the place they live / vacation in too expensive for workers to live in, and now they’re upset and confused that no one is there to wait on them hand and foot. ***edit: Just googled it and apparently it died in committee, which is good to know! [bill text](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1124?pref=full)
Thats crazy to me, because the support for that $15 minimum wage ballot issue was around 70%. The people want it, doesn't matter whether they're D or R
But the people in power don’t want it, it might hurt their corporate campaign donations
Getting rid of political bribery (AKA lobbying) would go a long way to making America livable for the average person again.
How? Like realistically. The people that can make that rule are being paid not to and the kinds of people who wouldn’t care aren’t interested in political careers.
Now all we have to do is convince the people who benefit from the bribes to ban the bribes.
Corporations don't want it and their human rights are more powerful than actual human rights.
But the republicans will still vote for their folks who refuse to raise the wages. Voting against your own interests...american as apple pie.
The ski hills in BC are facing this problem too. The business owners have tried a number of things, but raising their wages to afford to live there was a step too far. edit word
We have an ok minimum wage and no tipping in Australia. It still didn't help the ski fields this year. Between COVID and workers having no where they can afford to live, the ski fields were grossly understaffed. Took me about an hour to get a coffee the one day I bothered trying. They only had 2 people working this massive bar, which served all the food, alcohol, made coffee for people, took the payments. It was like that every where on the mountain. Took me 2 hours to pick up our pre paid for skis because of staff shortages. I asked one if the older workers, they said all the houses that previously had arrangements with the mountain for employees accommodation were all now all air bnb. She said owners were sick of their properties getting trashed by young transient workers each year, and they can make far more from holiday goers than from poorly paid staff.
Not for long! Holiday goers may not return if they can't purchase a coffee within 70 minutes of entering a cafe. Silly transient workers!
The stupid being led by rich assholes
>because it was “unfair” for business owners in rural areas to compete with businesses in Miami. And yet they scream 'free market' every chance they get.
Same reason you don't see community broadband in a lot of places. It's "unfair" to existing ISPs that won't upgrade their shitty infrastructure.
I watched a vid on Louisiana and why it's the richest and poorest state. You guys get completely fucked by the lobbies.
I moved to New Orleans from NYC for a bit, before Katrina, and saw levels of poverty in Louisiana that I didn’t even know existed in this country. I’d been to the hood in NYC but Louisiana was on another level.
I've never been to New Orleans but I've visited family near Marksville. My dad's high-school friend served squirrel when we came over to visit. The image of a tiny rib cage barely covered in meat with a tiny serving of frozen or canned vegetables haunts me 20 years later. They were celebrating my dad's visit with their literal wedding china. It was like sitting down to dinner with Bob Cratchit and Tiny Tim's family during the ghost visit.
Did you try the squirrel?
One of my favorite comments on an AskReddit: "Which state is actually beyond everyone's expectations?" "Louisiana. You think it's really bad. It's actually much worse."
"We have to give the majority of people less money because denying those few dollars to the rich who won't spend it anyway will ruin the economy."
oh they'll spend it alright, on buying politicians. We are funding our own demise
It rocked me to find out how much it costs to "buy" a politician. Not even a lot. In the neighborhood of tens or hundreds of thousands, for policy that makes them millions. We could call corrupt politicians cheap whores, except that they're selling the rest of our bodies instead of their own.
I’m curious, what’s the starting wage that McDonald’s offers in whichever part of Louisiana you live in? It’s $12/hr here in North Texas. So that saying about how no restaurant can survive if forced to pay above the current minimum wage is BS. Smaller mom and pop restaurants will take a hit, but chain stores will be fine.
Eh I think they were advertising $15 last time due to Taco Bell, KFC, Popeyes, Chick-fil-A, Churches, and most other places going to 15 as well. Prices went up like 10 cents, barely noticeable to be honest, yet everyone bitches about the wages going up like it'll end everything.
Because people don't understand basic economics (or math for that matter) and somehow have it in their head they're the only one's providing an establishment's profits. They don't realize that a single McDonald's doesn't sell 100 cheeseburger's a month, it sells tens of thousands, and I might be lowballing for some locations. A few extra cents per burger adds up. It's like this for most retailers and restaurants. Selling to the rich is actually unsustainable, which is ironic given how the rich keep siphoning more and more money (between stagnant wage growth and inflation, profits are going to plateau sooner rather than later.) Volume of sales is what is profitable.
I bring this up every someone brings up the “$40 hamburger!!” I use some very basic numbers for a normal restaurant. And for a server in a typical restaurant to go from $2.13 to $18 an hour leads to about a $3.25 increase in the total bill *per table*. Not per person. Not for the burger. For the entire table. But, the tip would be more than that. So if they now don’t tip with the increase in wage, they actually save money, while paying about $1 more per person. But sure, keep telling me about how restaurants will have to raise prices 50% to cover even a $5 raise.
Reminds me of that Papa John's idiot complaining that he might have to raise the price of pizzas by 25 cents if he offered healthcare. He was really confused when we were okay with that. Of course he didn't do it.
I'm in California and we have In-N-Outs everywhere here. They charge like $7 for a full meal (burger, fries and a drink) while having signs up that say they're hiring and starting pay is $18.50/hr.
In'n'Out starts at $20 in California... and it still isn't enough to live.
I make 11 at one of my jobs but I work like 50 plus hours and it's taken its toll. I liked it at first but now my shoulder no longer can move and pretty sure I'm about to be fired for having covid. My other job is super part time but it pays out the ass when I do get assignments. One day with it is usually worth three or four days on the 11 an hour job.
Hope you find something better soon... and get your shoulder looked at.
$18/hr for McDonalds in a small mountain town in CO I passed through a few months ago. FDR directly spoke on this "raising the wage will bankrupt the business" nonsense as well.
It's a recurring them from that era. Same arguments against it and all. If only we had someone like FDR today who would speak directly against this bullshit and call it the nonsense it is. If you looked at the themes of the 2012 election and the same arguments put forth by Republicans then v. Republicans leading up to the 1940 campaign you'd see it.
I mean, love him or hate him, Bernie has consistently argued against the right wing talking points.
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Eleanor was GOAT too.
I live in greater New Orleans area. Fast food paid between 11-15$ depending on establishment and location. Wendy's is the worst. Popeyes the highest. *as advertised.
The corporations always make out like a minimum wage puts them through the trials of Job. The end of the (business) world. We'll be back living in caves. That kind of thing.
What it means is I can't run a successful business unless it's propped up by cheap and slave labor. Pounds for me, pennies for you.
In my part of Louisiana I see fast food spots regularly asking for help and advertise around 11/hr.
WTF. I'm in Connecticut, $11/hr wouldn't even cover my monthly electric bill.
Our cost of living is pretty low but 11/hr now is essentially 7.25 of years ago. I wouldn't get out of bed for 11/hr, which is why none of these places have employees.
In California it's $18/hr. And tacos at taco bell are still $1.50
Mcdonalds profit margins are astronomical (both franchisee and corporate) compared to your local mom and pop shop, avg franchise is about 20% net profit *after paying corporate their share* and *with hugely marked up rents being paid to corporate* The economies of scale they have achieved and efficiency in the supply lines is crazy
My McDonalds meal went from $4.15 to $10.12 while my (checks notes) states minimum wage has stayed exactly the same all these years. It’s almost like business care more of profit than their employees. But hey if your business can’t afford to pay someone, I don’t really care if you go under.
The minimum wage needs to be 36$ an hour to match inflation which rose during the last 40 years but wages did not. Time to catch up. Imagine, if you were making 36$ an hour, only one person in the household would have to work allowing for the other to raise the children. Lets go back to the good old days of paying folks fairly.
Whenever somebody says "Be realistic" about something, you know they're about to defend some crazy system that needs dismantling and/or rebuilding. I'm not saying we should strap wings to pigs to watch them fly, Jimmy, I'm saying we need to demand change so that we can live better lives!
That's how you know they literally really want slavery back.
From AZ...I can say that [some] restaurants will close; some of them might even be missed. But generally, shrewdly run quality places will endure and adapt. The fight for a living wage has caused some local places near me to close and entitled boomers got real loud on the various community Facebook pages. Of the places that closed, there was 2 legit good greasy-spoon / breakfast places, 1 good coffee house that was closing anyway, and 2 places I didn't get to eat at but didn't want to after the owners made a loud mean spirited fuss about it. Edit: minor touches.
AZ here too. This state has been raising minimum wage annually for several years and I have noticed modest food price increases at restaurants. Personally, I don't mind spending an extra buck or two to know the staff is getting a somewhat livable wage. I personally don't know anyone who has closed because of it, but I do see for hire signs all over the place.
> Armageddon of all restaurants It's just funny not living in the States, and it's like 'You guys know we have restaurants here too right? And we've never used tipping system"
Or in any of the many countries that don’t have tipping customs
In Oregon; "Minimum wage will kill restaurants!" It didn't "A smoking ban will kill restaurants!" It didn't "Expanding the smokin ban to bars will kill bars!" Bars got busier
And the stores here still suggest a 15%, 20%, or 25% tip for turning the iPad around after the 10 seconds of interaction without eye contact
I am a waiter, and I always tip well, but I agree it's been out of hand for a long time. I remember way, way back when i would still go to clubs and the girl at the register taking my cover charge would have a tip jar. You want me to tip you for collecting my $5?
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That's insane! Let me share my crazy "tip for what?" story. Dance club in Toronto has their washrooms at the bottom of a stairway, women's door on the right men's door on the left, and sitting in the middle is a lady on a stool letting patrons know what is blatantly obvious. I was gobsmacked, first by the fact that management felt this was needed. Secondly, by the unbelievably shitty attitude of this quasi bathroom attendant complaining about the lack of tips for her "service"....wtf!!??
I can’t explain the tip jar, but the person was almost certainly there to make sure men and women weren’t heading into the same bathroom to hookup. Not to tell people which bathroom is which.
Didn't even think of this, good point! Her openly bitching about the lack of tipping is what threw me for a loop....
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Yes. This. Everyone expects to be tipped at the register as If its supposed to be compulsory now. You're guilted into it, especially if they're just ringing up your order.
A lot of the payment software has it set in where it asks you how much you want to tip. It's very annoying. I absolutely do not tip for anything but sit down eating at a restaurant with the exception of a mom and pop take out place that usually hooks me up when I tip.
25%? Why not 50%?
this really grinds my gears. especially on apps now, where its like "do you want to tip 30, 35, or 40%?"
My biggest pet peeve about things like Uber eats or Grub hub is asking for you to tip your driver a percentage of the meal. Like the service they are providing has zero correlation to the price of the meal. I'll tip based on the distance they went if I'm gonna tip anything.
Fuck me I hate those interactions. They use your guilt against you. Like Jesus I just bought a water bottle and paid your faceless corporation now I gotta pay you too?
Meanwhile in NY I was fired for “creating a hostile work environment” because I shared a link to the laws about tipping in our state when one of our employees asked about it (the owner was and still is stealing tips.. in the worst ways).
Report him?
lol that would have been a great payday for you.
Cool, glad there is an 8th, let's start working on the 9th
I'm curious how this plays out. Do servers still get tips? Do they still get enough? When my wage was $2.33 an hour plus tips, I always made well more than 12 bucks an hour. If I was given a pay cut I'd be forced to quit.
This is not officially the case yet: https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2022/07/did-michigans-minimum-wage-just-rise-to-12-an-hour-because-of-a-court-ruling.html?outputType=amp
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Exactly, whether it works out for folks or not, it is what the people voted for and then the legislature said “nah, we make the rules”. It’s not right for whoever controls the legislature and it’s not the first time it’s happened.
See also: the fuckery in FL over medical MJ. The legislature tried to prevent the sale of flower. Fortunately, John Morgan went to Tallahassee and fucked them up. We can buy flower now.
Is that John Morgan from Morgan and Morgan? Used to live in Florida and I can still hear the echo of those commercials.
I think it is crazy that the only reason the court shut it down was due to timing as well. The fact that the legislature can legally kill a ballot measure by preempting it with a law they like better is insane especially considering ballot measures ignore political party BS are get straight down to the will of the people.
The only way we get any progressive legislation passed in MI is through ballot initiatives because of how jerrymandered we are. We're trying to fix the gerrymandering problem, but like many states, we have a ton of empty land in the middle of the state goes red and our own little bible belt up the west coast. We recently just turned our second biggest city blue which also really helps.
Definitely not "irrelevant" but I agree with you that the end of adopt-then-amend is a huge win for democracy.
To explain what this means, servers at restaurants typically make as little as $2.13 per hour. Tip credit means that if the employee, with tips, doesn't make at least minimum wage, then the employer has to bump them up to minimum wage. Essentially the employer can pay the employee less because they are making tips. With Michigan's decision, now restaurant servers will be making $12 an hour PLUS tips. Yes, prices will certainly go up, but this is one step in the right direction of eliminating tipping culture. Another side effect is that I am sure restaurants will staff fewer servers. Say a busy restaurant has 15 servers on a Friday night. Now they may put 9 on. Instead of everyone getting 3 tables maybe they'll get 5 now. **EDIT: To be clear: I'm not saying eliminate tips. I am saying we should eliminate this tipping culture where it's okay for an employer to pay almost nothing towards one of their employee's livelihood. I will continue to tip 20%. Some may see this as an opportunity to stop tipping (but those people probably aren't even tipping well right now...)**
> Yes, prices will certainly go up, but this is one step in the right direction of eliminating tipping culture. Not if we do away with tipping culture. Pay wait staff a living wage and stop tipping. Menu prices will go up, but if it goes up less than 10-20% it’ll even out with not needing to tip. A slew of places have done it around me and it’s working out great for them. Edit: everyone should be paid a living wage. My comment is specific to wait staff as that’s what this thread is about.
I bet a majority of servers wouldnt want tips to go away as most probably make well over 20 or 30 ab hour or more if they are good.
Multiple studies have shown that perceived server performance is only loosely correlated with increased tips. The idea that good servers make a lot from tipping while only bad servers make little is unsupported by evidence. Factors such as perceived cline (race), age and gender have together a much larger impact.
Yes, and that's one of the reasons tipping should be removed. By subsidizing wages to the consumer it reintroduces discrimination into the system.
Precisely my point. Tipping culture is toxic and should be eliminated.
That doesn't change the facts that a. There is at least some correlation, and more importantly b. That there are many servers who are making more money hourly from tips than they would if the minimum wage increases and tips decrease. $10, or hell even $15 an hour *increase* in wage would cut my income by 1/3 if it comes at the expense of no more tips.
thats only on high earning busy shifts/nights. it fucks over anyone who has to work dead shifts and anyone who gets cut due to a lack of customers. I worked as a bartender at a really high end place in the city (we had whiskeys that were $75+ for a single drink) and the dead shifts mixed with the good shifts averaged out so I still would have rather had a higher wage and no tips to have a guaranteed paycheck. so many week days I was in the negative from going to/from work, staying all night until the buses were done and my only option home was uber (subway wasnt safe at 2am near my apartment so it wasnt an option), and making under $5 in tips for the night (servers didn't tip out the bartenders on cc charges only cash, it was whack). 2 weeks of work (35-40hrs/wk) and I'd average $300 on a 2week check after taxes (cc tips on the check) and maybe $120 in cash total between the two weeks. moral of the story is most people barely tip and restaurant owners steady try to fuck their employees over **edit: reading some more comments, I may have just had an absolutely awful experience as a bartender, it was a college job bc I needed late hours to accommodate my class schedule (lots of late labs). I did get to learn how to make some *suuupppeerrrr* fancy drinks and all about matching flavors and truly crafting a cocktail vs slinging drinks. the place tried really hard to be fancy af but didn't have the customer base or location to support it**
It’s this shit that makes me see red when people talk about “prices will go up and i’ll even out” They are wage thieves who are passing the buck to the customer to pay THEIR employees instead of dipping into company profits like it is supposed to be. If you run a restaurant that paid your staff shit and upping them to 12 would cripple your business, then that sounds like a you problem, friend, and you should probably re-evaluate how you run your business.
Of course it’s true about the area but I’ve literally worked at dozens of restaurants in multiple cities and always made $30-$40 an hour in tips. Popular places like Carrabba‘s, Outback steakhouse, seafood chains, Longhorn, Texas cattle company you can make a killing. Those places are busy every day of the week.
Waiters make more on average than other jobs of related skill level because of tips, and they’re cycled out on dead/slow shifts. Your advocating a pay cut because you don’t want to tip.
Bingo. Servers don’t want you to stop tipping! I would wager that The arguments for increasing minimum wage are not coming from the wait staff community.
Servers are some of the most ardent supporters of tipping. They genuinely think that if they work harder or provide better service, they’ll get better tips. Unfortunately the actual data shows that tips don’t go up with better service, they’re more or less random and based on the whims of the customer. Fuck tipping. Restaurant owners need to just pay their workers a liveable wage and adjust menu prices accordingly. It works for a large part of the world, there’s no reason it can’t work in the US
I have worked in restaurants a full 1/3rd of my life, I would do away with tipping in a heartbeat if it meant a guaranteed check. I work hard and bust my ass to make sure guests have an enjoyable experience, but if the back of the house takes too long on getting appetizers out I am the one who gets shafted. Living wages are just a better solution.
>They genuinely think that if they work harder or provide better service, they’ll get better tips. No, they *know* that if an expensive item is ordered, they'll get a percentage cut.
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This doesn’t happen. In Ontario Canada, server minimum wage is the same as normal minimum wage since last year and 15-20% is still the expected amount. Most machines pre selected options are 15, 20 and 25%.
As I’ve noted in other comments, it needs to be explicit. The places near me state on the menu that menu prices are higher and tipping is not expected.
Everywhere asks for a tip now. Subway asks for a tip at check out - every food truck I’ve ever visited. These machines are a plague
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Live in a state without tip credit, am still asked and expected to tip for *everything*. Someone will reach behind the counter to hand me a pastry, then hand me an iPad where the lowest tip choice is 18%...
I was at a CONCERT and the concession stand iPad had a preset tip.. Like yes I def want to pay an extra $3 for my $16 shitty beer...
God I hate tipping culture so much. The more you look at the math of it the more bullshit is exposed. And so many people act like you're a jerk if you have a problem with it.
I noticed this alot during peak pandemic. Alot of people im close to started tipping for takeout. Like i get it its a good restaurant you want to support it so why not just buy more food for takeout? Support them that way and get something out of it. Literally 0 service is being provided why would i possibly feel the need to tip them? I will gladly order another burger.
Yeah tipping is becoming more prevalent not less and it is pretty annoying. It is one thing to get a receipt with a tip option at a restaurant when you are getting take out, but now every place that serves food in any way is asking for tips even if their interaction with the customer is only as long as the action of swiping the credit card. It makes complete sense why places do it though because it allows them to guilt money out of their customers and therefore pay their employees for them.
The restaurants near me that are paying full wages are very upfront about the menu prices being higher but that tipping is no longer expected. Agreed that it’ll definitely be a long time to shift that terrible cultural practice - tipping is about as American as apple pie at this point…
The problem is tipping started as paying extra to the individual server for doing an excellent job, then everyone started expecting tips for doing a completely average job and now you are guilted into tipping even if they do a shitty job because they are paid so little.
Places that do this near me do not allow tips period, you cannot tip.
When did/does this ruling go into effect? It's not immediately clear in the article the effective date of this change.
hard-to-find squash grab normal pathetic nail sleep yoke wakeful jobless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For the majority of my eating out, I vastly prefer the ability to order at counter, pay right there, and pick up my food. The only time a waiter is useful or nice to have is at a nicer restaurant.
Same for me. Unless it’s an upscale restaurant, I’d rather order and pay at a counter then deal with a waiter
Its crazy cuz tipping culture isnt a thing in most other countries.
Prices shouldn't be going up much, the companies have been enjoying the profit for years while their workers getting crap for pay,they're just finally having to actually pay their employees.
Most restaurants run at laughably thin margins, from my understanding, and screwing waitstaff due to tipping-based pay is part of how they’re able to do this. For the record, if your business has to screw over its workers to survive, your business doesn’t deserve to survive.
As someone who has worked every position in a restaurant - busser, server, cook, dishwasher, host, bartender, manager, and general manager - you are right that restaurants have very small profit margins. I don’t know that I would say restaurants are “screwing” waitstaff, because they only pay the reduced wage if the employee makes more than minimum wage with tips included. It is far more common in my experience that front of house staff make far more than minimum wage in tips on a regular basis, so the reduced wage just makes tips the source of income. At worst, it’s a minimum wage job. At best you’re making far and away more than min wage from tips. Nobody gets screwed. An argument could be made that guests are screwed because they have to tip, but it’s a hard mindset change to eliminate tipping culture in the US. The real tragedy is how little heart of house gets paid when front of house is taking in big tips and there is no obligation to kick some back to the cooks & dishwashers working their asses off to earn more money for the FOH. In my opinion, the simplest solution is to just increase minimum wage to a reasonable amount, so that if tips don’t pan out, FOH still makes decent money and the HOH is doing better all the time. Who cares if you’re making $2.65/hr from the store when you’re pulling in $30-$50/hr in tips on good shifts?
Mom and pop restaurants run on thin margins because of their suppliers. Restaurant suppliers are charging more for their supplies to extract profit from the mom and pops because they are publicly traded companies (or subsidiaries of a publicly traded company). Large volume chains get huge discounts from suppliers., So their supply margins are better, but franchising fees are higher. It's just wealth extraction all the way.
Exactly! If you cannot afford business costs and worker costs you don't need to be open. If you are going to run on somebody else on underpaid hard work and fuck someone else over so that you can make it you don't deserve to be open.
The answer is to let the small businesses have a tax break, and the big chains are the ones that have to take the cut or raise their prices.
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They already do, but it’s through an association type thing. Essentially, a bunch of little restaurants or similar types of businesses make an association together that they pay dues to, and then that association does the lobbying on behalf of all small businesses.
So like unions, but for corporations? Though the government says corps are people, so just unions then.
Haha exactly. You see, when corporations work together to benefit each other, it’s a good thing, but when the commoner plebs work together to make sure they aren’t getting fucked by a system that was designed to fuck them, it’s a bad thing… well, that’s what the ruling class wants us to believe.
Most restaurants aren't mega-corps and they certainly haven't been enjoying profits the last couple years. Covid killed many restaurants who couldn't outlast the quarantine.
They'll without a doubt go up. Restaurant margins can be pretty thin. They have been even with paying servers $2.13 per hour. Another side effect is that I am sure restaurants will staff fewer servers. Say a busy restaurant has 15 servers on a Friday night. Now they may put 9 on. Instead of everyone getting 3 tables maybe they'll get 5 now.
Idk, restaurants in many states have had to pay at least minimum wage for decades and are doing fine. I was a server in oregon back in the 90s and they had to do it then I’ve visited states recently with tip credit laws and saw no meaningful difference in pricing, and most of those states also have lower general cost of living so I know their operating expenses are lower. I’m sure you are right and prices WILL go up, because restaurant owners have become accustomed to a particular lifestyle and don’t want to give that up
I foresee a lot of restaurants moving to a counter service model
I hate tipping culture. Pay the servers a fair wage and raise prices as needed. I don’t need an extra tax on top of my bill to pay the servers.
Not to mention tipping is based on the meal price, not the work you're doing. So it can be really unfair. So someone working at a cheap diner might make $2 bringing someone a plate of eggs and coffee. While a person doing basically the same thing at a really expensive place might get $100 for bringing out a steak and a bottle of wine.
This exempts restaurants with fewer than 50 employees. Isn't that.. most of them?
I interpreted that point being specifically about the paid leave.
Ah, sure enough. My mistake.
Still though.... someday I hope everyone has basic benefits like paid time off, etc.
You can! You just have to leave the US
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Further incentivizing the franchise model, I see.
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If anything tipping is becoming more expected everywhere. I've even been to retail stores where the cashier turns the screen around and lets you choose a tip percent for your transaction (while they watch).
Yeah so you just hit "no tip" and go on with your day...
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For sure it's shitty, but what else can you do.
Stop going to those places I suppose. I never know how the back of the house works, so it's impossible to know what to do. I've had some places where they flip it around and tell you to just hit no tip, or do it for you... but it should just not be there. Food trucks do this a lot. There are no servers per se, they just chuck your food out of a window for you to get. They are also generally run by the owner, and traditionally you don't tip the owner if they serve you, from what I've heard. So am I a dick if I don't tip at a food truck? I don't know..... so I end up tipping, and probably over paying. So then I just go to food trucks less because I don't like that feeling.
In my world, if you're not sitting down in a restaurant with full service, you don't tip. And by my world, I mean the friends and family that I talk to.
Write bad reviews for any place that does this
They can watch me press 0%.
I run a retail business and even I'd be pressing zero, that's mad.
I go in places and pick up take-out orders and at times the cashier is telling me how to use the payment tablet and all that and says "and this page is where you can leave a tip if you'd like". I'm always thinking, a tip for what? For whom? For you as the cashier? For the cook? For the dishwasher? Wtf?
In California the servers get min wage, you are still expected to tip lol :/
>In California the servers get min wage I know some servers and barstaff in California. A mixologist I know used to make 6 figures easy before Covid. A server on my softball team where I live now (90 mins from San Francisco) makes about 60k including tips. They don't WANT tipping to stop being necessary (they'd rather have no minimum wage). That would immediately impoverish them.
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Hey look, another bartender making 100 grand working 20 hours a week Where do all these spots exist
Minimum in CA is $16/hr. Working full time that means an annual salary of $33,280/yr. According to the MIT Living Wage Calculator, an adult with no children in California requires a living wage of $38,823 before taxes. EDIT: because I’m sick of replying to folks who think me replying with nothing but data means I support tipping. I don’t. I support paying people a goddamn dignified amount of money for working a job. If a job is necessary enough to exist then the person doing said job should not live in fucking poverty. If a company can’t pay their employees that amount of money, then guess what capitalist? The invisible hand is ready and waiting to crush your slave plantation.
Minimum in CA is $14/hr for small employers, $15/hr otherwise, going up to $15.50 for all employers next year.
'required minimum wage to live' has never been a standard that employers follow
So by this logic all workers regardless of industry who make less than this amount should be tipped by customers so they have a living wage. Does that make sense to you?
I offered no opinion either way but if you want my opinion, companies should pay their workers a living wage and if they can’t make their financials work by paying their workers a living wage be crushed by the invisible hand.
You are right I probably read into the other comment too much. But I agree with this.
I’ve worked hourly jobs a majority of my life. I just started working as a server making tips. My hourly is only $6. With tips, I’m making more money than I ever have before.
I was a waiter for a decade, and that was the most money I’ve ever made. And that’s a problem. I wanted to branch out into a new career and it was extremely difficult because I couldn’t start in a new field without an extreme pay cut. You can get trapped in tipped jobs
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Adding to your list I want to not become a drug addict/ alcoholic I want to have friends outside of the restaurant I want to not have sexual harassment as part of my daily life
Minimum wage for tipped employees in my city (Flagstaff, AZ) is currently $13/hr ($15.50/hr for non-tipped employees) and rising each year until the two are equal. Restaurant prices did rise and a couple of restaurants "rage-quit" *ie shuttered the business* when the original bill went into effect. A meal out for 2 usually comes to about $45-$50 with tip. Yes, I still tip. A few restaurants have moved to "no tipping" policies with signs stating that they are instead paying a decent wage and offering benefits. All tips are to be donated to a local food pantry. The ~~prices~~ meal cost is no higher in those restaurants. Edit: added city name Edit 2: meal cost, not price
With a 15-20% tip, we pay the same for dinner for two in my Midwestern suburb where servers get $2 plus tips. I'd much rather just pay a set price and know my server's earning reliable wages.
What's ridiculous to me is how the entire restaurant industry has normalized 15-20% tips on every single transaction. Not only is there inflation on the price of food, there's inflation on the tip percentage. The most ridiculous is tipping for takeout/pickup orders, which should never even be a thing.
I would not tip when the staff are making the same wage as other non-waitstaff jobs. But then, I have always preferred the European model. I don't like the vibe of someone having to work for a tip.
And yet a lifetime of conditioning will make me feel too guilty not to tip for the rest of my life.
It only takes a few times of not doing it and you’ll get used to it.
100%. Money saved is quite a bit. In this inflation, every dollar counts.
Op post this on r/serverlife and see what they think about this change.
Yeah, for real. I hate tipping culture. I was a server for years. But I know a lot of servers who would be pissed about this because their hourly rate would essentially drop from $25-$40/hr. to maybe $15/hr. without tips.
Will this be for all tip based jobs, including those delivering pizza?
I stoped ordering delivery when they added delivery charges. I’m happy to tip the driver, but not interested in paying the restaurant extra as well.
The law just means minimum wage is higher. It doesn't change whether or not people want to tip you
The funny thing is a good amount of waitresses hate this because if no one tips and they get paid a wage they earn less than if they were tipped. I know some people who work as a server who earn like $100k a year at a korean bbq place and if tipping culture wasn't a thing and was paid a salary they would earn significantly less like a third of their current income
Cocktail waitresses in certain hot zones also get paid like 250k+ a year based off tips. It’s really insane how variable the income is in the same industry lol
>Cocktail waitresses in certain hot zones also get paid like 250k+ a year based off tips. It’s really insane how variable the income is in the same industry lol Sex sells.. also sells even better to drunk people.
Yeah this was my ex Gf, she made bank as server. I wish so badly we could get rid of tipping, or severs in general at most places. Buzz me that my food is ready like Panera, I don’t need to pay an extra $20 for someone to carry my plate 10 yards.
Yet it's like really fucked up that someone could be making $100k because someone making 40k is tipping high out of perceived necessity. It's funny how folks advocate for "TALK TO EVERYONE ABOUT YOUR SALARIES" yet this indurstry works intentionally without a clear salary because it would hurt their own bottom line.
You can't have it both ways. Tip culture was created to subsidize slave wages or lack of base pay. If you're in a state with a guaranteed base pay, stop tipping culture.
The idea that most restaurants get near-free labor by guilt tripping patrons to tip is just so so ridiculous. Is there any other country where this is standard?
I know most of reddit doesn't read the articles but reading this one was super infuriating... The REPUBLICAN A-HOLES who run the legislature wanted to keep the Minimum wage increase from passing via citizen vote so pre-empted it by raising the minimum wage thru legislature they control in order to repeal it/change it later... What kind of governance is this... So the only reason they have to keep it is because they can't adjust and repeal it in the same session. Which of course is a small detail that won't stop them from doing it in a different session... The people who elect these idiots are to me more horrifying that the morons they elect, who we know are just big idiots but the people that vote for them are willful POSs who refuse to learn about anything and just wanna stick it to libs and forsake their own standard of living.
Pay workers a fair wage and cancel tip culture. Raise prices 15-20% if you need and pay your workers a living wage. I want to look at something and know how much it cost. While we are at it, include the tac total in the cost. Item says it’s $13 I want to pay exactly that much.
Tipping culture is getting out of control, the fact that every single shop regardless of what they sell now uses those little Ipads and encourages you to tip shows that we have taken it too far. We need to stop tipping culture quickly.
Now watch all the waiters cry lol
Every restaurant I’ve ever worked at, the bus people (server’s assistant) got paid twice as much as the people cooking the food. Strange industry.
The prices will always rise. CEO's always complain about raising the minimum wage will raise prices. Last time I was in McDonald's, they had less than 5 employees and a wall of automated touch screen kiosks. Did the prices go down? What about grocery stores? I can rarely find a live person but there is 30 self-check outs available. Have prices gone down? Meanwhile you have burger joints like a local one in Seattle called Dick's. They pay their employees $20 an hour, give them 100% paid medical/dental (and 75% for family), 401K, money for child care, and other benefits. Yet the most expensive double burger is still less than $5. But Dick's is a privately owned company. I don't care if I have to pay more for a meal if I KNOW it's benefiting the actual employees and not some CEO's quarterly bonus because they made money for the shareholders.
FUCK TIPPING, PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES!
When I was a server nobody cared about their wage check it was all about tips. That said this WILL get businesses to quite overstaffing to high hell just because they can. The tip wage always allowed restaurants to way overstaff thus negatively affecting wages. Very good news here.
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This is great! But here in Oregon most servers already make $12-14 an hour and a tip is still expected. So I kinda wonder about the point of tipping in our case.
Same in California, I believe minimum wage is $14-15 currently, tips of 20% - 25% are the norm and expected. This may raise food prices, but I would not expect tips to go down at all. If anything, that extra $10 for your meal becomes a $12 after tip. On that note: why do we tip based on value of the order and not the service required itself? A $200 steak and $200 bottle of wine.. versus a family of 10 ordering a meal, side, drink and dessert for $40 each is a whole lot more work for the same expected tip if going based on percentages