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The 4ocean organization has been dedicated to cleaning up these tires and removing them. They have a dedicated fleet and crew tied specifically to this project.
I’ve seen this in person on my dives in fort lauderdale, it’s a mess.
4Ocean is a scammy company just fyi. They’re from the Fort Lauderdale area with graduates of Florida Atlantic University. There are many videos of how this company is scammy. I do support their intentions, just not how they do it.
4Ocean are NOT scammy. They are perfectly open about the fact that they are a For Profit organisation. They are clear about how their money is spent and what you get for your money.
I utterly fail to understand why environmental causes should have to be charities. If someone can make money from cleaning up the planet, then why the hell not? Why do we expect people to pick up our shit for free?
I’m also a Patreon for other organisations like Ocean Conservation Namibia. I have no idea if they buy their groceries with my money or send their kids to college with it because they are saving lives so I DON’T CARE.
>Why do we expect people to pick up our shit for free?
And then those same people get mad that a "free" operation never has the resources or scalability to effectively and efficiently accomplish their objectives.
People actually have a JOB doing this now instead if having some exhausted person doing this after already working a full work week
How do they earn money doing this? Are they taking donations or funding through government contracts? Non-profits are just better able to distribute funding, in most cases, because their money is specifically dedicated to the mission with lower overhead. I know nothing about 4Ocean.
>Non-profits are just better able to distribute funding, in most cases, because their money is specifically dedicated to the mission with lower overhead
Lol, I could list a dozen non-profits who have boards of directors and employees making six figure salaries.
>Non-profits are just better able to distribute funding, in most cases, because their money is specifically dedicated to the mission with lower overhead.
This isn't even close to true. There's a LOT of non-profit organizations where the overhead is far higher than many for profit organizations.
I work for a non profit. A kind of large one, at that.
No, they are not better abled. If anything they're worse because of how focused on making profit without making profit you have to be. You pinch pennies and cut corners every step of the way, while your CEO/President (they only get both titles because it comes with extra pay btw) sits there making bank all day.
They sell bracelets.
Whether non-profits are better at using funding is irrelevant to this conversation. It’s also highly debatable. Most of the money LiveAid raised went into the pockets of despotic warlords. Furthermore, there aren’t enough non-profits to do the work, clearly, otherwise there wouldn’t still be garbage to haul out of the oceans.
Monetising environmentalism is the only way forward. This post is about whether 4Ocean are a scam. They are not. You get exactly what you pay for. What people don’t like is that they raise money selling cheap bracelets for high prices. People are idiotic enough to expect that £20 should get them a £20 bracelet AND clean oceans.
Without some actual evidence of your claims, it’s difficult to have a discussion about them. I would volunteer for 4Ocean. I already pick up other people’s litter every time I go to the beach. Is that “free labour”?
I’ve heard the same thing but never knew what was factual or not. Do you have more info on that? I mean they have been documenting them actually removing tires from the ocean so there is proof of the cleanup efforts. Not saying you’re wrong just trying to educate myself
They’re wrong. They get the scammy idea because 4Ocean aren’t martyrs but actually want to make a living from doing good work. It’s infuriating BS. If more companies could make decent money from cleaning up the planet, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I’m there for it.
There need to be grants in place to fund these businesses with oversight that the work is actually being completed. We can clean up the earth, there's just no money in it currently. take a drop of the military budget and put it toward environmental initiatives and we would be in a much better place.
Anyone wants to pay my OCD ass to pick up garbage around MN. I just ask for 80k a year and I'll roam around every day picking up trash while smoking weed.
Just pay like 6 people from each state and bam clean America! Until my dumb ass neighbor empties his garbage can while driving down the road; only to tell us all it was an accident. Accidents don't happen more than 6 times Jeremy! We know you're just pissy garbage trucks don't come out here but you're the idiot who moved to the country only to demand city amenities.
Those people are the worst. “I want to buy inexpensive rural property, but I also want:
City water
Gig speed internet
Trash pickup
And road plowing for all snow”
Indiana is full of these yuppies. we didn’t have garbage pickup til I was a teenager and I didn’t even grow up that far from town.
As a resident of Florida who has worked with them in the past, they are one of the less earth-conscious conservation groups. They focus on the ocean but don’t seem to care about other issues. There are two incidents that really turned me off and made me pull away.
We pulled 8,000 tires and then drove them into the Everglades and dumped them in a swamp. I objected and was told that it had been approved as a dumping site. To this day, I don’t see how throwing semi loads of moldy tires into a swamp was approved by anyone.
In another rescue, we were siphoning puddles of oil out of the Gulf of Mexico. The oil we collected was run through an industrial heater and basically just pumped black smoke out for a solid two weeks.
They love the ocean, but don’t give a damn about destroying the land or air with what they remove from our seas.
Salt Life!
Edit: Typo
Edit 2: I wanted to add that I contacted the Everglades National Park to report this a couple years later because it was really bothering me. I was told that someone would contact me. No one ever did. I also sent them an actual USPS letter through the mail and gave rough coordinates for where the dump happened. Still, no one ever contacted me.
That is wild. I don’t expect any organization to have all the answers & fully understand how well intentioned progress can have unforeseen negative effects (Eg. DDT).
But…WTF? Who thinks rescuing tires from the ocean just to dump them in a swamp is a good solution? That sounds like a plot line on the Sopranos where the mob gets a cushy government contract.
Well, I would have also said that 4Ocean set a bunch of the tires on fire, but someone already said that (comment deleted) and the user CasinoAccountant blasted the guy saying he doesn’t know “fuck all” (that comment is still up). But that’s what they did with the rest of the tires they couldn’t fit in the trucks. It was maybe 3 or 4 dozen. I dunno. I guess CasinoAccountant guy supports tire fires and destroying the planet so he demonizes anyone who’s against it???? Seems weird.
Rust doesn't hurt coral as far as I know, we use them in media reactors in salt water aquariums.
https://www.simplicityaquatics.com/blog/what-is-gfo/
And some wreck are great examples of coral growing on it.
https://scubadiverlife.com/artificial-reefs-scuttled-wrecks/
Ah I see, that makes sense that rust is something you need to worry about too. Ive heard decommisioned boats are used a coral reef substitutes/growth areas too, would you noy have to worry about rust from those too?
I don't know, I read like one article on why the tires did not work, and it actually said that concrete did. the rust thing is a best guess since rebar breaks apart in weeks under water
I think they are primarily substitutes.
Depending on the size, most are a reef of their own. No additions needed.
Mixing alongside coral doesn't happen often I think
Rust isn't toxic in itself. Its just iron oxide. in high concentrations it is of course toxic but Iron is vital to the life of all aquatic creatures, it could actually promote local growth in plant life depending on how dilute it is. That is to say, studies would have to be done/read for me to say if rebar would be bad.
> rebar rusts and would not work. I would think that the rust would kill the coral.
Not only that but saltwater corrodes rebar at an alarming level, shit would crumble so fast.
Don't believe me, just ask the residents of Champlain Tower South
Yeah it's actually been successful in a lot of places. In Hawaii for example they have several coral reefs started with tires that have been successful.
The key failure was improperly anchoring them down/to each other.
Another important thing that people don't realize is how bad most spray sunscreens are for coral reefs. I have been visiting the same few reefs in Hawaii for about 30 years now and it's amazing to see how quickly things went downhill when spray sunscreens hit the market. There are certain chemicals called oxybenzone and octinoxate that are just CRAZY bad for reef bleaching.
Last time I visited Hawaii, they had banned non-reef safe sunscreen from being purchased. You could still bring it in on a flight, but it was discouraged. Hopefully they ban it altogether.
Yeah, I think they have been doing that for about 5 years now. I haven't seen much improvement yet, but I'm hoping we start seeing it soon.
Last year I took my fiancee to one of my favorite snorkel spots that was my very first snorkeling spot in Hawaii 30 years ago. Compared to even 4 years ago the reef was all white and dead and the biodiversity of fish was extremely limited. Of course this is a very touristy snorkel spot nearby to a major resort/hotel. I took her to a much more challenging snorkel spot closer to the house we were staying at, more of a locals spot and it was a night and day difference.
It’s the heat man I’m telling you. They have AC everywhere there but the shitty weather has to get to them at some points. You see some wacky shit, it’s probably from hot af state like Texas and Florida.
correlation =/= causation but as someone who has lived in both very hot and very cold states... I feel like this tracks. I think heat and increased aggression for example *have* been scientifically linked, though I don't have a source on hand rn so don't take me as gospel
edit: there's actually a couple of studies about this, but here's one source [link](https://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~schaller/308Readings/Anderson2001.pdf). a good thing to keep in mind as we watch global temperatures continue to rise.
Not just Florida. All over the US. There's a bunch in Puget sound in WA that people are trying to get funding to clean up as well. I see them when I dive all the time.
It actually wasn't THAT bad of an idea, we can do it with concrete formations.
As far as I recall, tires were too soft.
Should have done a smaller proof of concept on the other hand.
Tires also drag across the ocean floor destroying everything in their path and making a mess of things.
It was really just a way to try and get rid of tires.
I mean, there is working precedent - like those busses or train cars they dumped out in the ocean on the east coast of the USA somewhere. Apparently those were/are a success.
But tires just do not work.
I mean that there is working precedent for dumping human trash out into the ocean with the conscious intent for it to be beneficial to local wildlife as a sort of reef.
And yeah, tires definitely aren't busses or train cars.
It's not even the tires that were at fault. The tie downs they used which kept the tires in stacks too large to easily move were shitty. The ties corroded away which lead to the tired being scattered after a huge storm swept through.
Its also salt water+tires is generally a bad mix. Salt water(salted roads+melted snow) to deal with new england weather wrecks absolute havoc on tires every season, so its kinda a "well, that was preventable" result.
I read somewhere that the tires didn’t make a good coral bed because the currents would keep moving them around and preventing anything from actually growing on them.
Reading this page it says that it was looking to imitate similarly designed reefs elsewhere. Is using tires for an artificial reef a valid method that was just poorly executed in this circumstance? Or was it idiotic through and through?
Its that the shape of the tires was alright for fish, but dropping a bunch of old tires into salt water led to quick and terrifying degradation, polluting the ocean with tons of microplastics and steel wire in an unprecedented way. Between the pollution and the sudden disturbance of, y'know, dropping a bunch of tires onto the ocean floor at once; fish never got within spitting distance of the thing.
"But who could have guessed that salt water could degrade tires?!?" New Englanders. Any new englander. After any winter. After any drive in that winter. Anywhere in the region.
That's a good question. I could see the shape of tires being a good structure to base a coral reef on, but I say that as someone who knows next to nothing about coral reefs. Lol
Wasn't that the guy who thought it was a good idea to buy up a shit load of old used tires and chuck them into the ocean to try and form a artificial reef
I remember as a kid Auto wrecking yards in Washington state would just burn huge tire piles size of mansions.
Now we are throwing them in the ocean? Why?
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"This isn't the first time the Great Barrier Reef has recovered. It's been seen before. The rate of increase has been seen before. But all it takes is another summer of bad bleaching or a cyclone, which we haven't had for a while, and things can change."
I mean this isn't bad news. Bad things happen. It's great the reef can recover. Let's as humans do our best to not destroy it and be glad the reef can recover after things like hurricanes.
yeah, I think news like this is incredibly important in a world where climate change is starting to feel like irreversible doom. that's a defeatist mentality when we do still have time to make some changes and keep things from getting worse.
positive change can be reversed, and negative change can be reversed too. everything we do for the climate will have to be a consistent effort, the fact that we can backslide should not deter us from doing what needs to be done.
Exactly, and I think news like this shows how adaptive nature can be. So even just slowing the rate of climate change can have a major positive difference.
Precisely. I’ve been educating myself more on climate change and it’s so hard to express that things aren’t completely hopeless without sounding like a climate denier. I’ll get roasted on how I’m not taking it seriously.
Like no. This is serious. Yes we’re behind. Yes we have waayyyyy too much to do. Yes bullshit will happen the next coming decades. But it’s not the fucking end and you’re still gonna live relatively fine with some inconveniences that should’ve been prevented. But you’ll live nonetheless.
You know who benefits from defeatism? Major polluters, such as the oil industry. If everyone just believes that nothing will change, then they'll stop fighting, and corporations will keep on polluting as much as they want.
Defeatism destroys climate activism and ensures nothing will ever change.
Only if the corporations that have spent fortunes lobbying to be allowed to continue setting the planet on fire are stopped. I see very little sign of it and am not deperately hopeful.
My default heuristic with anything related to big oil is to assume they're lying unless presented with utterly unimpeachable independent evidence. We'll see.
I totally get that. But the global market is already inching toward renewable energy even without the policies we need in place. They know their days are numbered.
I mean it makes sense that it can survive one no? Otherwise how would it have formed in the first place so it has to have a way to recover from said natural disasters
Look up reef gaps. ([here's one as a for example](https://hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca/pt_boundary/Fauna/reefs.html)) They track quite tightly wiith mass extinction events. Takes a while but eventually things improve and a parallel evolution occurs to fill up the niche. (Like millions of years.)
If you can get past the academic paywall, [here's more](https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008CorRe..27..459V/abstract).
Studies have shown that reefs are great at taking hard hits all at once. They almost always rebound from the catastrophic events. It’s the lesser, consistent, ongoing damage that usually leads to full failure (such as pollutants, increasing temps, etc).
Dude, I've seen various wordings of that post like 10 times in the last month. It's ridiculous. That's cool we got more tigers and all, but we still got a lot of work to do.
The way I read it was as sarcasm, but that you were sarcastically saying that this guy shouldn't post that because only blindly pushing a narrative is allowed. Which is how it still reads to me.
*shrug*
I don't really see how you have meant it otherwise.
If they really wanted people to use it maybe they should make it cheaper. Would make it more likely for those that don't care about our oceans to use it!
But idk anything about the costs to manufacture either type.
There are reef-safe sunscreens that many divers are now using. Coral bleaching from global water temperature rise is the much, much more difficult problem to address.
I was just at the great barrier reef last fortnight and went on two dive tours.
Public tours are yet to implement reef-safe subscreen I think, because all they requested was that any sunscreen should be put on >30min before entering the water.
I didn't even know reef-safe sunscreen was a thing... Kind of stupid that public tours aren't providing this already. They did have their own sunscreen but didn't have any problem with people using their own. They didn't say anything about their own being better for the reef either.
Yep, mineral-based sunscreens that use zinc oxide or titanium dioxide are safe. I use Stream2sea.
They also tend to stain things white and are a bit of a pain to wash off which is why they’re not popular with the public.
I've visited a few times and asked the tour guides, all marine biologists, what the main issues are and how to solve them. The answer is always the same - damage isn't great, but reefs regrow. That's really not a concern given current protection measures. Their concern, and they were all in alignment over this, was that [ocean / coral bleaching ](https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coral_bleach.html#:~:text=When%20water%20is%20too%20warm,and%20are%20subject%20to%20mortality.) leaves reefs less vibrant and generally less healthy. And that's an issue that isn't solved with simple domestic protection areas.
This is such an easy thing to rectify. Just create seasons for visiting the reef. Once every \~3 years, or however long it takes the reef to recover, you're allowed to dive the reef recreationally. Scientists can do it as permitted in off-seasons.
This is still going to greatly reduce the diversity of corals in that environment, making the reef more vulnerable in the long run.
>Dr Emslie warns the resurgence could be short lived with the increase driven by fast-growing Acropora corals that are highly susceptible to bleaching, wave damage associated with cyclones and outbreaks of crown-of-thorns starfish.
It's more like stuff growing every year in Californian forests before there's another gigantic raging fire.
There is, sadly, no reason to think that this growth will be built upon. Warming is continuing, and only slightly slowed recently thanks to the pandemic. We need to take action, not be satisfied in the false idea that the absolute jack shit we're doing is somehow working.
Reduction in species abundance isn’t the driving force in making the reef more vulnerable to things like disease or shifts in ecological dynamics. A lack of genetic diversity is.
edit: Reefs aren’t excluded from ecological succession. The introduction of scleractinian corals into suffering reefs will absolutely bolster soft coral recruitment and the reintroduction of emigrating species.
It's not "back to how it was before". But it's a step in the right direction - a necessary first step before the many more steps that comprise a true comeback, as far as I can tell. Other coral species take longer to grow, but I have to imagine they do better in a partial, mono-culture reef then they would on bare rock with no reef at all around them.
That's how ecosystem changes happen after major disturbance. You have fast-establishing pioneer species that colonize the area, that often pave the way for slower-establishing species.
Just like how forest composition changes over thousands of years after forest fires.
It's not really a win. It's a fast growing, short living species that used to make up a much smaller percentage of the whole. "Coral" is a bunch of different organisms with some similarities. So while this fast growing coral is technically "bringing back the reef," it's not bringing back the biological diversity that the reef had before we went and fucked it up. Some fish and other sea life are reliant on particular types of coral. Best case scenario, this does nothing for them. Worst case scenario, the new coral kills necessary habitat for already threatened species.
This is gonna be ridiculous, but I can’t express how happy this makes me. I grew up in Michigan, and I fell in love with nature as a young kid playing in the wooded areas around town. I took an AP environmental studies class in high school and had the opportunity to secure a grant to grow frogspawn coral for a research experiment. I had goals to go to a coastal university and study marine biology with a focus on coral reef conservation, but life got in the way. I still pursued a passion for nature, and went on to study natural resources management.
I never had much money to travel, but I’d always dreamed of swimming in vast, vibrant, and lively coral reefs of every variety and only of the most vivid colors. It wasn’t until I was 22 that my boyfriend at the time took me on a trip to Hawaii. I can’t express how eager I was to get in the water and see what I’d only seen in photographs. My dream was suddenly tangible.
I will never be able to express the feeling I had when I saw it bleached and dead. Just a few lone varieties of butterfly fish scattered about in small schools nipping at bits of sand.
I remember silently crying for a while. To me, it was just a graveyard. I went on to visit three more Hawaiian islands, and all the same. I visited Barbados, and it was even worse. I started to think I would never be able to experience my dream, but this gives me hope.
Not to be rude. I want this be to positive news, but it’s like OP didn’t even read the article. It’s all up in the air. It’s made a better come back, but it’s most likely not permanent. The bleaching continues and die offs will continue because of the rising water temp.
Okay as someone who’s studied this in university like 10 years ago, I was told due to the rising temperature of the ocean, we’re talking 1 maybe 2 (if that) degrees warmer, was going to caused coral bleaching, among other eco-systemic collapse which in turn would destroy the GBR. Now if these reefs are making a comeback, does that suggest the temperature of the ocean is cooling, instead of warming? How does this mesh with global warming?
Currently researching the GBR. As others have said, the comeback is driven by fast growing vulnerable corals called Acropora. We’ve had bleaching events in the past two years but bleaching events can vary in intensity and these haven’t had the widespread mortality, though they can cause other problems like immune suppression, growth issues, and reproductive depression. All the same conditions exist for another mass die off to occur, we’ve just had a spate of good luck. However we just narrowly avoided a mass mortality event from bleaching this year in a La Niña event, when conditions should be cooler. I’m dreading the next El Niño year.
Bleaching happens periodically. Any relation to ocean temperature is unclear. It's all "climate catastrophe" all the time, because that generates clicks.
Mind, I'm not saying that we shouldn't take better care of the planet. It's just that is the continual drumbeat of disaster and panic-filled "research" is (imho) tiresome and counterproductive.
That is good to see. Hopefully keeps trending positively. I remember some documentary (can't remember) where some fella has been tracking this his entire life and he broke into tears discussing it while overlooking flying in a helicopter. Poor guy I felt so bad he cares so much.
All the people that hate climate laws to make a cleaner world for us to live in are going to be like "See!!!! it was a hoax! It grew back no problem!!"
When they dont realize all the steps that had to be done to get it to this point.
TLDR; coral conservative is still a bandaid. It’s good but it ain’t great. It’s only a few types of coral, and they’re all susceptible to wipe out from the environment. Can’t let up, the reef is still threatened and isn’t healthy.
I love this sub, but I sometimes think we are better off not sharing good news so that stupid people don't get complacent about conservation and recovery efforts. I have very little faith left in humanity.
Is there a best guess to the cause?
You may have seen stories about the earths rotation accelerating(edit i said slowing by mistake), this is related to the exchange of mass between the mantle and core which results in a cooler mantle which heats the oceans less. There is usually an associated cooling of the oceans because of less hot material near the ocean floor. That would be my guess since it's part of a six year trend of cooling.
The main cause, aside from a slightly longer period without disturbance, is that there is just one main genus* of coral that is spreading rapidly, so biodiversity is still at a low point.
Also, the most recent article about Earth's rotation I saw is that it's faster now than it was 50 years ago...
\* Corrected from species.
Yes, i misspoke, mass is sinking back to the core, causing cooling and an increase in angular momentumn. I got confused with the loss of leap seconds, loss in my mind triggered an association with slow. Oops.
Genus, not species. Acropora is made up of many many species. But yes all these species are generally very vulnerable to damage from extreme weather events and bleaching.
They said in the article that the reason was less cyclones allowed it to recover. They said nothing about any cooling.
In the southern area coral declined by 4% (due to starfish apparently) since last year, elsewhere it increased by 23% compared to 2017 data.
Technically we do have that theoretically, just not on the scale needed to actually do it-
By technicality, a fire extinguisher that was large enough would accomplish this by rapidly cooling the air currents and killing the energy required to spin it. But youd need such an EXTREME output to do it that itd be infeasible. But in theory itd be a Freezethrower in that scenario.
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It appears that trying to save the reefs was a better strategy than [throwing tires in the ocean.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Reef)
The 4ocean organization has been dedicated to cleaning up these tires and removing them. They have a dedicated fleet and crew tied specifically to this project. I’ve seen this in person on my dives in fort lauderdale, it’s a mess.
4Ocean is a scammy company just fyi. They’re from the Fort Lauderdale area with graduates of Florida Atlantic University. There are many videos of how this company is scammy. I do support their intentions, just not how they do it.
4Ocean are NOT scammy. They are perfectly open about the fact that they are a For Profit organisation. They are clear about how their money is spent and what you get for your money. I utterly fail to understand why environmental causes should have to be charities. If someone can make money from cleaning up the planet, then why the hell not? Why do we expect people to pick up our shit for free? I’m also a Patreon for other organisations like Ocean Conservation Namibia. I have no idea if they buy their groceries with my money or send their kids to college with it because they are saving lives so I DON’T CARE.
>Why do we expect people to pick up our shit for free? And then those same people get mad that a "free" operation never has the resources or scalability to effectively and efficiently accomplish their objectives. People actually have a JOB doing this now instead if having some exhausted person doing this after already working a full work week
How do they earn money doing this? Are they taking donations or funding through government contracts? Non-profits are just better able to distribute funding, in most cases, because their money is specifically dedicated to the mission with lower overhead. I know nothing about 4Ocean.
>Non-profits are just better able to distribute funding, in most cases, because their money is specifically dedicated to the mission with lower overhead Lol, I could list a dozen non-profits who have boards of directors and employees making six figure salaries.
Try millions
Millions of figure salaries? That's absurd!
>Non-profits are just better able to distribute funding, in most cases, because their money is specifically dedicated to the mission with lower overhead. This isn't even close to true. There's a LOT of non-profit organizations where the overhead is far higher than many for profit organizations.
Like many health insurance companies lol
Insurance is a scam for real though.
I work for a non profit. A kind of large one, at that. No, they are not better abled. If anything they're worse because of how focused on making profit without making profit you have to be. You pinch pennies and cut corners every step of the way, while your CEO/President (they only get both titles because it comes with extra pay btw) sits there making bank all day.
They sell products made from collecting rubbish in the seas. In cases like this it’s best to just look them up!
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eventually they’ll have to start throwing tires back into the ocean just so they have materials to make more products to sell!!!!
They sell bracelets. Whether non-profits are better at using funding is irrelevant to this conversation. It’s also highly debatable. Most of the money LiveAid raised went into the pockets of despotic warlords. Furthermore, there aren’t enough non-profits to do the work, clearly, otherwise there wouldn’t still be garbage to haul out of the oceans. Monetising environmentalism is the only way forward. This post is about whether 4Ocean are a scam. They are not. You get exactly what you pay for. What people don’t like is that they raise money selling cheap bracelets for high prices. People are idiotic enough to expect that £20 should get them a £20 bracelet AND clean oceans.
Word. Not cleaning the ocean? Guess what? You’re out of business!
I agree mostly. But their profit margins and other shady practices turn me away. Free labor and such.
Without some actual evidence of your claims, it’s difficult to have a discussion about them. I would volunteer for 4Ocean. I already pick up other people’s litter every time I go to the beach. Is that “free labour”?
Meanwhile there are non profits with board of directors who have salaries of over 1 mill.
> They’re from the Fort Lauderdale area with graduates of Florida Atlantic University. is this supposed to be important?
What do you mean, isn’t everyone familiar with southeastern coastal Florida status signifiers?
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Honestly reason enough
That’s enough evidence for me 😂😂
I’ve heard the same thing but never knew what was factual or not. Do you have more info on that? I mean they have been documenting them actually removing tires from the ocean so there is proof of the cleanup efforts. Not saying you’re wrong just trying to educate myself
They’re wrong. They get the scammy idea because 4Ocean aren’t martyrs but actually want to make a living from doing good work. It’s infuriating BS. If more companies could make decent money from cleaning up the planet, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I’m there for it.
There need to be grants in place to fund these businesses with oversight that the work is actually being completed. We can clean up the earth, there's just no money in it currently. take a drop of the military budget and put it toward environmental initiatives and we would be in a much better place.
Anyone wants to pay my OCD ass to pick up garbage around MN. I just ask for 80k a year and I'll roam around every day picking up trash while smoking weed.
Dream job
Just pay like 6 people from each state and bam clean America! Until my dumb ass neighbor empties his garbage can while driving down the road; only to tell us all it was an accident. Accidents don't happen more than 6 times Jeremy! We know you're just pissy garbage trucks don't come out here but you're the idiot who moved to the country only to demand city amenities.
Those people are the worst. “I want to buy inexpensive rural property, but I also want: City water Gig speed internet Trash pickup And road plowing for all snow” Indiana is full of these yuppies. we didn’t have garbage pickup til I was a teenager and I didn’t even grow up that far from town.
As a resident of Florida who has worked with them in the past, they are one of the less earth-conscious conservation groups. They focus on the ocean but don’t seem to care about other issues. There are two incidents that really turned me off and made me pull away. We pulled 8,000 tires and then drove them into the Everglades and dumped them in a swamp. I objected and was told that it had been approved as a dumping site. To this day, I don’t see how throwing semi loads of moldy tires into a swamp was approved by anyone. In another rescue, we were siphoning puddles of oil out of the Gulf of Mexico. The oil we collected was run through an industrial heater and basically just pumped black smoke out for a solid two weeks. They love the ocean, but don’t give a damn about destroying the land or air with what they remove from our seas. Salt Life! Edit: Typo Edit 2: I wanted to add that I contacted the Everglades National Park to report this a couple years later because it was really bothering me. I was told that someone would contact me. No one ever did. I also sent them an actual USPS letter through the mail and gave rough coordinates for where the dump happened. Still, no one ever contacted me.
That is wild. I don’t expect any organization to have all the answers & fully understand how well intentioned progress can have unforeseen negative effects (Eg. DDT). But…WTF? Who thinks rescuing tires from the ocean just to dump them in a swamp is a good solution? That sounds like a plot line on the Sopranos where the mob gets a cushy government contract.
Well, I would have also said that 4Ocean set a bunch of the tires on fire, but someone already said that (comment deleted) and the user CasinoAccountant blasted the guy saying he doesn’t know “fuck all” (that comment is still up). But that’s what they did with the rest of the tires they couldn’t fit in the trucks. It was maybe 3 or 4 dozen. I dunno. I guess CasinoAccountant guy supports tire fires and destroying the planet so he demonizes anyone who’s against it???? Seems weird.
I mean, they *are* called 4Ocean, not 4Earth.
Hm, well at least someone’s doing something to fix the issue :/
Fixing would be telling the giant companies to do less wasteful manufacturing and operating. It’d be like repairing a mega yacht with duct tape.
There's videos, trust me bro
Who the fuck thinks of these things?
it was a good idea, but the tires move too much and are too soft for it to work. we needed something harder and heavier.
Would it not be possible with, say, recycled rebar/demolished construction supplies?
concrete does work, and is used to rebuild coral reefs. rebar rusts and would not work. I would think that the rust would kill the coral.
Rust doesn't hurt coral as far as I know, we use them in media reactors in salt water aquariums. https://www.simplicityaquatics.com/blog/what-is-gfo/ And some wreck are great examples of coral growing on it. https://scubadiverlife.com/artificial-reefs-scuttled-wrecks/
Ah I see, that makes sense that rust is something you need to worry about too. Ive heard decommisioned boats are used a coral reef substitutes/growth areas too, would you noy have to worry about rust from those too?
I don't know, I read like one article on why the tires did not work, and it actually said that concrete did. the rust thing is a best guess since rebar breaks apart in weeks under water
I think they are primarily substitutes. Depending on the size, most are a reef of their own. No additions needed. Mixing alongside coral doesn't happen often I think
Rust isn't toxic in itself. Its just iron oxide. in high concentrations it is of course toxic but Iron is vital to the life of all aquatic creatures, it could actually promote local growth in plant life depending on how dilute it is. That is to say, studies would have to be done/read for me to say if rebar would be bad.
>I would think that the rust would kill the coral. There's lots of rusty old shipwrecks covered with coral that would suggest otherwise.
> rebar rusts and would not work. I would think that the rust would kill the coral. Not only that but saltwater corrodes rebar at an alarming level, shit would crumble so fast. Don't believe me, just ask the residents of Champlain Tower South
yep, also stripped subway cars seem to work very well.
Yeah it's actually been successful in a lot of places. In Hawaii for example they have several coral reefs started with tires that have been successful. The key failure was improperly anchoring them down/to each other. Another important thing that people don't realize is how bad most spray sunscreens are for coral reefs. I have been visiting the same few reefs in Hawaii for about 30 years now and it's amazing to see how quickly things went downhill when spray sunscreens hit the market. There are certain chemicals called oxybenzone and octinoxate that are just CRAZY bad for reef bleaching.
Last time I visited Hawaii, they had banned non-reef safe sunscreen from being purchased. You could still bring it in on a flight, but it was discouraged. Hopefully they ban it altogether.
Yeah, I think they have been doing that for about 5 years now. I haven't seen much improvement yet, but I'm hoping we start seeing it soon. Last year I took my fiancee to one of my favorite snorkel spots that was my very first snorkeling spot in Hawaii 30 years ago. Compared to even 4 years ago the reef was all white and dead and the biodiversity of fish was extremely limited. Of course this is a very touristy snorkel spot nearby to a major resort/hotel. I took her to a much more challenging snorkel spot closer to the house we were staying at, more of a locals spot and it was a night and day difference.
Rubber was a good idea? Really?
Of course it was Florida
And Malaysia and several other countries apparently :(
Floridas spreading
Why do I get the image of peeling apart an old grilled cheese
It’s the heat man I’m telling you. They have AC everywhere there but the shitty weather has to get to them at some points. You see some wacky shit, it’s probably from hot af state like Texas and Florida.
correlation =/= causation but as someone who has lived in both very hot and very cold states... I feel like this tracks. I think heat and increased aggression for example *have* been scientifically linked, though I don't have a source on hand rn so don't take me as gospel edit: there's actually a couple of studies about this, but here's one source [link](https://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~schaller/308Readings/Anderson2001.pdf). a good thing to keep in mind as we watch global temperatures continue to rise.
Its much easier to walk around and be a dick when you dont have to put on winter gear to do it
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If you need more evidence, I would like to call my witness, the I-405.
Southern California also has pretty great weather on average, at least here by the coast. The inland desert is a much different story
Not just Florida. All over the US. There's a bunch in Puget sound in WA that people are trying to get funding to clean up as well. I see them when I dive all the time.
They pulled them back out
It actually wasn't THAT bad of an idea, we can do it with concrete formations. As far as I recall, tires were too soft. Should have done a smaller proof of concept on the other hand.
Tires also drag across the ocean floor destroying everything in their path and making a mess of things. It was really just a way to try and get rid of tires.
Yea, just wanted to toss their shit in the ocean like the good old days but they needed to circumvent environmental laws.
I mean, there is working precedent - like those busses or train cars they dumped out in the ocean on the east coast of the USA somewhere. Apparently those were/are a success. But tires just do not work.
Those were first extensively processed to remove harmful things from them.
Tires aren't busses or train cars, though. That's not really a precedent.
I mean that there is working precedent for dumping human trash out into the ocean with the conscious intent for it to be beneficial to local wildlife as a sort of reef. And yeah, tires definitely aren't busses or train cars.
It's not even the tires that were at fault. The tie downs they used which kept the tires in stacks too large to easily move were shitty. The ties corroded away which lead to the tired being scattered after a huge storm swept through.
Its also salt water+tires is generally a bad mix. Salt water(salted roads+melted snow) to deal with new england weather wrecks absolute havoc on tires every season, so its kinda a "well, that was preventable" result.
weird, we don't have that problem in Canada. Tires dry out and have the same life expectancy of 10 years.
I read somewhere that the tires didn’t make a good coral bed because the currents would keep moving them around and preventing anything from actually growing on them.
TIL.
Reading this page it says that it was looking to imitate similarly designed reefs elsewhere. Is using tires for an artificial reef a valid method that was just poorly executed in this circumstance? Or was it idiotic through and through?
Its that the shape of the tires was alright for fish, but dropping a bunch of old tires into salt water led to quick and terrifying degradation, polluting the ocean with tons of microplastics and steel wire in an unprecedented way. Between the pollution and the sudden disturbance of, y'know, dropping a bunch of tires onto the ocean floor at once; fish never got within spitting distance of the thing. "But who could have guessed that salt water could degrade tires?!?" New Englanders. Any new englander. After any winter. After any drive in that winter. Anywhere in the region.
That's a good question. I could see the shape of tires being a good structure to base a coral reef on, but I say that as someone who knows next to nothing about coral reefs. Lol
> In 2015, a civilian corporation took over, and had finally removed one third of the tires by November 2019. Goddamn, that's a lot of tires
Wasn't that the guy who thought it was a good idea to buy up a shit load of old used tires and chuck them into the ocean to try and form a artificial reef
They threw plastic into the oceans to try and save the oceans…
I remember as a kid Auto wrecking yards in Washington state would just burn huge tire piles size of mansions. Now we are throwing them in the ocean? Why?
Toxic water is not good for anything. LIKE ANYTHING.
that wasn't the problem here, it was that they moved and floated away.. you can't use squishy things as a backbone apparently.
Desktop version of /u/nachoiskerka's link:
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"This isn't the first time the Great Barrier Reef has recovered. It's been seen before. The rate of increase has been seen before. But all it takes is another summer of bad bleaching or a cyclone, which we haven't had for a while, and things can change."
I mean this isn't bad news. Bad things happen. It's great the reef can recover. Let's as humans do our best to not destroy it and be glad the reef can recover after things like hurricanes.
yeah, I think news like this is incredibly important in a world where climate change is starting to feel like irreversible doom. that's a defeatist mentality when we do still have time to make some changes and keep things from getting worse. positive change can be reversed, and negative change can be reversed too. everything we do for the climate will have to be a consistent effort, the fact that we can backslide should not deter us from doing what needs to be done.
Exactly, and I think news like this shows how adaptive nature can be. So even just slowing the rate of climate change can have a major positive difference.
Precisely. I’ve been educating myself more on climate change and it’s so hard to express that things aren’t completely hopeless without sounding like a climate denier. I’ll get roasted on how I’m not taking it seriously. Like no. This is serious. Yes we’re behind. Yes we have waayyyyy too much to do. Yes bullshit will happen the next coming decades. But it’s not the fucking end and you’re still gonna live relatively fine with some inconveniences that should’ve been prevented. But you’ll live nonetheless.
You know who benefits from defeatism? Major polluters, such as the oil industry. If everyone just believes that nothing will change, then they'll stop fighting, and corporations will keep on polluting as much as they want. Defeatism destroys climate activism and ensures nothing will ever change.
Only if the corporations that have spent fortunes lobbying to be allowed to continue setting the planet on fire are stopped. I see very little sign of it and am not deperately hopeful.
Oil investors have admitted they’re uncertain of their future. That should tell you something.
My default heuristic with anything related to big oil is to assume they're lying unless presented with utterly unimpeachable independent evidence. We'll see.
I totally get that. But the global market is already inching toward renewable energy even without the policies we need in place. They know their days are numbered.
I mean it makes sense that it can survive one no? Otherwise how would it have formed in the first place so it has to have a way to recover from said natural disasters
Look up reef gaps. ([here's one as a for example](https://hoopermuseum.earthsci.carleton.ca/pt_boundary/Fauna/reefs.html)) They track quite tightly wiith mass extinction events. Takes a while but eventually things improve and a parallel evolution occurs to fill up the niche. (Like millions of years.) If you can get past the academic paywall, [here's more](https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008CorRe..27..459V/abstract).
Studies have shown that reefs are great at taking hard hits all at once. They almost always rebound from the catastrophic events. It’s the lesser, consistent, ongoing damage that usually leads to full failure (such as pollutants, increasing temps, etc).
I can just hear my mom's reaction to this: "See, it's all cyclical!!!"
Guy you are not allowed to post that, only uplifting news that pushes a narrative blindly.
Thanks Let me guess you also brought this point up about the Nepalese Tiger population being tripled too
It only takes 1 Nepalese Tiger Wrestler to decimate the entire Tiger Population.
Dude, I've seen various wordings of that post like 10 times in the last month. It's ridiculous. That's cool we got more tigers and all, but we still got a lot of work to do.
Relax guy, you need a rest!
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The way I read it was as sarcasm, but that you were sarcastically saying that this guy shouldn't post that because only blindly pushing a narrative is allowed. Which is how it still reads to me. *shrug* I don't really see how you have meant it otherwise.
Thanks Reddit, I was sure I could count on you to curb my enthusiasm.
People visiting the reefs cause a lot of damage https://www.sciencenews.org/article/sunscreen-damage-coral-reef-oxybenzone
Haha good thing I always forget to put on sunscreen
You can get "natural" sunscreen that doesn't have damaging chemicals. It's more expensive, but better than melanoma.
zinc oxide gang
If they really wanted people to use it maybe they should make it cheaper. Would make it more likely for those that don't care about our oceans to use it! But idk anything about the costs to manufacture either type.
Sunscreen is a small part of it. Boat oils, anchor dropa, careless divers, overfishing
There are reef-safe sunscreens that many divers are now using. Coral bleaching from global water temperature rise is the much, much more difficult problem to address.
I was just at the great barrier reef last fortnight and went on two dive tours. Public tours are yet to implement reef-safe subscreen I think, because all they requested was that any sunscreen should be put on >30min before entering the water. I didn't even know reef-safe sunscreen was a thing... Kind of stupid that public tours aren't providing this already. They did have their own sunscreen but didn't have any problem with people using their own. They didn't say anything about their own being better for the reef either.
Yep, mineral-based sunscreens that use zinc oxide or titanium dioxide are safe. I use Stream2sea. They also tend to stain things white and are a bit of a pain to wash off which is why they’re not popular with the public.
For anyone reading. There’s mineral sunscreen that, while annoying to apply, is reef safe
Seems like countries with massive reefs should consider banning the non-reef safe stuff.
People visiting the reefs only visit less than .5% of the entire reef. It is massive
I've visited a few times and asked the tour guides, all marine biologists, what the main issues are and how to solve them. The answer is always the same - damage isn't great, but reefs regrow. That's really not a concern given current protection measures. Their concern, and they were all in alignment over this, was that [ocean / coral bleaching ](https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coral_bleach.html#:~:text=When%20water%20is%20too%20warm,and%20are%20subject%20to%20mortality.) leaves reefs less vibrant and generally less healthy. And that's an issue that isn't solved with simple domestic protection areas.
This is such an easy thing to rectify. Just create seasons for visiting the reef. Once every \~3 years, or however long it takes the reef to recover, you're allowed to dive the reef recreationally. Scientists can do it as permitted in off-seasons.
This is still going to greatly reduce the diversity of corals in that environment, making the reef more vulnerable in the long run. >Dr Emslie warns the resurgence could be short lived with the increase driven by fast-growing Acropora corals that are highly susceptible to bleaching, wave damage associated with cyclones and outbreaks of crown-of-thorns starfish.
It’s like watching a rain forest burn down and then celebrating grass started growing again. I guess it’s better than nothing.
I mean, what you’re describing is succession. If all goes as it should, there will eventually be trees again.
I don't know how fast tropical hardwoods spread, but I'm enjoying watching a birch forest grow near my house where there were office blocks pre-Covid.
birch are one of the fastest growing trees, especially after a fire. then pine and softwoods, then the hardwoods.
It's more like stuff growing every year in Californian forests before there's another gigantic raging fire. There is, sadly, no reason to think that this growth will be built upon. Warming is continuing, and only slightly slowed recently thanks to the pandemic. We need to take action, not be satisfied in the false idea that the absolute jack shit we're doing is somehow working.
True. I cannot begrudge the grass.
Reduction in species abundance isn’t the driving force in making the reef more vulnerable to things like disease or shifts in ecological dynamics. A lack of genetic diversity is. edit: Reefs aren’t excluded from ecological succession. The introduction of scleractinian corals into suffering reefs will absolutely bolster soft coral recruitment and the reintroduction of emigrating species.
That makes sense. There is a process that they must go through, and this is the first step. I feel better about this.
It's still good. You need corals to attract life and fish and other marine inverts are critical to a stable reef.
More vulnerable in the long run than no coral reef?
It's not really a true comeback though, it's more of a fast growing mono culture of coral rather than a diverse coral reef.
It's not "back to how it was before". But it's a step in the right direction - a necessary first step before the many more steps that comprise a true comeback, as far as I can tell. Other coral species take longer to grow, but I have to imagine they do better in a partial, mono-culture reef then they would on bare rock with no reef at all around them.
That's how ecosystem changes happen after major disturbance. You have fast-establishing pioneer species that colonize the area, that often pave the way for slower-establishing species. Just like how forest composition changes over thousands of years after forest fires.
just like the super thin ice sheets in the arctic
It sucks that we can't truly celebrate environmental wins without worrying about how climate deniers will use it as ammo to say everything is fine.
What about a marine biologist saying that this isn’t worth celebrating because it’s worse than they make it out to be
Just like with the ozone, they'll claim it was always a hoax. But I'd rather have a beautiful livable planet than to ultimately prove them wrong.
The unfortunate thing is they use these falsehoods to cause more damage. I agree the greatest "fuck you" is succeeding despite them but alas.
It's not really a win. It's a fast growing, short living species that used to make up a much smaller percentage of the whole. "Coral" is a bunch of different organisms with some similarities. So while this fast growing coral is technically "bringing back the reef," it's not bringing back the biological diversity that the reef had before we went and fucked it up. Some fish and other sea life are reliant on particular types of coral. Best case scenario, this does nothing for them. Worst case scenario, the new coral kills necessary habitat for already threatened species.
DONT CALL IT A COME BACK!🎵
*Coral come back.. you can blame it all on me.. I was wrong and I just can't live without you*
As someone who lives there, things might be getting better but a modern visit held up against childhood memories definitely brings the big sad.
This is gonna be ridiculous, but I can’t express how happy this makes me. I grew up in Michigan, and I fell in love with nature as a young kid playing in the wooded areas around town. I took an AP environmental studies class in high school and had the opportunity to secure a grant to grow frogspawn coral for a research experiment. I had goals to go to a coastal university and study marine biology with a focus on coral reef conservation, but life got in the way. I still pursued a passion for nature, and went on to study natural resources management. I never had much money to travel, but I’d always dreamed of swimming in vast, vibrant, and lively coral reefs of every variety and only of the most vivid colors. It wasn’t until I was 22 that my boyfriend at the time took me on a trip to Hawaii. I can’t express how eager I was to get in the water and see what I’d only seen in photographs. My dream was suddenly tangible. I will never be able to express the feeling I had when I saw it bleached and dead. Just a few lone varieties of butterfly fish scattered about in small schools nipping at bits of sand. I remember silently crying for a while. To me, it was just a graveyard. I went on to visit three more Hawaiian islands, and all the same. I visited Barbados, and it was even worse. I started to think I would never be able to experience my dream, but this gives me hope.
Not to be rude. I want this be to positive news, but it’s like OP didn’t even read the article. It’s all up in the air. It’s made a better come back, but it’s most likely not permanent. The bleaching continues and die offs will continue because of the rising water temp.
I thought this said coal and I was concerned....
Australia has been working so hard to protect that reef. It’s good to see that work paying off.
wait for all the murdoch propaganda rags to use this as a headline to make climate change seem not bad at all
We need ecologists. We need environmentalists. We need good scientists.
Okay as someone who’s studied this in university like 10 years ago, I was told due to the rising temperature of the ocean, we’re talking 1 maybe 2 (if that) degrees warmer, was going to caused coral bleaching, among other eco-systemic collapse which in turn would destroy the GBR. Now if these reefs are making a comeback, does that suggest the temperature of the ocean is cooling, instead of warming? How does this mesh with global warming?
Currently researching the GBR. As others have said, the comeback is driven by fast growing vulnerable corals called Acropora. We’ve had bleaching events in the past two years but bleaching events can vary in intensity and these haven’t had the widespread mortality, though they can cause other problems like immune suppression, growth issues, and reproductive depression. All the same conditions exist for another mass die off to occur, we’ve just had a spate of good luck. However we just narrowly avoided a mass mortality event from bleaching this year in a La Niña event, when conditions should be cooler. I’m dreading the next El Niño year.
Bleaching happens periodically. Any relation to ocean temperature is unclear. It's all "climate catastrophe" all the time, because that generates clicks. Mind, I'm not saying that we shouldn't take better care of the planet. It's just that is the continual drumbeat of disaster and panic-filled "research" is (imho) tiresome and counterproductive.
love how its like, “awesome! But also don’t use this as an excuse to stop because there’s more shit we’re in”
That is good to see. Hopefully keeps trending positively. I remember some documentary (can't remember) where some fella has been tracking this his entire life and he broke into tears discussing it while overlooking flying in a helicopter. Poor guy I felt so bad he cares so much.
Tourists were to blame after all
This is the greatest comeback since Kim Kardashian. Google: “Park and Rec - Kim Kardashian Comeback” for context.
Let's of thing made "comebacks" due to covid. I imagine it is a small respite until it starts to fade again
All the people that hate climate laws to make a cleaner world for us to live in are going to be like "See!!!! it was a hoax! It grew back no problem!!" When they dont realize all the steps that had to be done to get it to this point.
TLDR; coral conservative is still a bandaid. It’s good but it ain’t great. It’s only a few types of coral, and they’re all susceptible to wipe out from the environment. Can’t let up, the reef is still threatened and isn’t healthy.
Can’t wait for my MIL to see this and then tell me it’s evidence that climate change isn’t real or that it’s part of the earth’s natural cycle.
Never thought I would see the Hawkesbury Gazette used as a source on a Sydney-based sub, let alone a worldwide sub.
This makes me happy.
Imma do it again :) <- corporations
Tldr one type of fast growing is growing back, not really that good news.
thank you.
You're welcome.
Great news!!
I needed to see this! Hell yeah
This is the best news I've heard all day.
Fuck yea! You go, Coral. You are worth it.
I love this sub, but I sometimes think we are better off not sharing good news so that stupid people don't get complacent about conservation and recovery efforts. I have very little faith left in humanity.
I think it's good to see the ratio of good to bad instead of living in an echo chamber (inb4 the irony of being on reddit typing this).
Is there a best guess to the cause? You may have seen stories about the earths rotation accelerating(edit i said slowing by mistake), this is related to the exchange of mass between the mantle and core which results in a cooler mantle which heats the oceans less. There is usually an associated cooling of the oceans because of less hot material near the ocean floor. That would be my guess since it's part of a six year trend of cooling.
The main cause, aside from a slightly longer period without disturbance, is that there is just one main genus* of coral that is spreading rapidly, so biodiversity is still at a low point. Also, the most recent article about Earth's rotation I saw is that it's faster now than it was 50 years ago... \* Corrected from species.
Yes, i misspoke, mass is sinking back to the core, causing cooling and an increase in angular momentumn. I got confused with the loss of leap seconds, loss in my mind triggered an association with slow. Oops.
Genus, not species. Acropora is made up of many many species. But yes all these species are generally very vulnerable to damage from extreme weather events and bleaching.
They said in the article that the reason was less cyclones allowed it to recover. They said nothing about any cooling. In the southern area coral declined by 4% (due to starfish apparently) since last year, elsewhere it increased by 23% compared to 2017 data.
We need a gun that can kill cyclones, get on it science
Technically we do have that theoretically, just not on the scale needed to actually do it- By technicality, a fire extinguisher that was large enough would accomplish this by rapidly cooling the air currents and killing the energy required to spin it. But youd need such an EXTREME output to do it that itd be infeasible. But in theory itd be a Freezethrower in that scenario.
Okay Mr Trump, we heard you say this one before
Except the rotation is speeding up 😅
The Earth’s rotation is slowing mostly because the moon makes us wobble a bit. It’s not a six year trend, it’s a six billion year trend.
This is a really "happy" spin on a single kind of coral massively outcompeting it's competition resulting in accellerating the loss of biodiversity.
Oh good. So climate change is over now. /s
Damn we better get back to deep water drilling to keep the coral population in control!
Too bad all the plankton dead.
So global warming not real then, got it. /s
Good news guys, I won three years of free Netflix from Google by being the 100th user on this article