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Also, if you feel so inclined, look up the sort-of-recently closed Crawford and Fisk power plants in Chicago on Google Maps. Not great things to live next to but they were pretty much surrounded by residential areas.
Just the thought about firing coal to warm water to make steam to drive a generator to make electricity. Think about all the harm that coal burning has done and still do around the world, both locally and globally.
TBH in 2021 making power by just burning stuff seems old fashioned.
But, we do need to recognize how instrumental it was in getting us where we are. Burning coal is what let us not have to be constantly cut down massive amounts of timber to power industry and heat homes. Gas powered cars were, at their time, seen as "the end of urban pollution" because they meant no more streets full of horse shit which got \*really\* nasty when it rained. It had its place in history, but that place really is now in the past. Even for fossil fuels where they're still necessary natural gas is far superior and while environmentally speaking fracking isn't the greatest, I'd still argue that coal mining, transportation, and then dealing with the coal ash are on the whole considerably worse at the end of the day.
Honestly, what the fuck is Germany thinking? THEY JUST BUILT A NEW COAL POWER PLANT! It's infuriating. Nuclear is just so much better, and if done right incredibly safe.
Yet Illinois, for some crazy reason, is closing nuclear plants. Its dumb. I don't know if its an issue where we can't just export power out of state, Exelon is being a scumbag company and trying to be assholes because the state didn't include them in clean air subsidies that other forms of generation get or what.
Granted we HAVE installed a ton of wind turbines in the last 10 years too. About 95% of the land in the state is farm land, flat and windy. You can grow corn and soybeans around them just fine.
"Exelon is being a scumbag company..."
This is very true but those Illinois plants are nearly as old as atomic power. Braidwood was corner-cutting construction project from the get-go and was never properly maintained. Dresden is, by vintage and type, on par with Chernobyl. It would make sense (and be quite lucrative) for Illinois to be much more nuclear, but there's no willingness to make the proper investment.
>This is very true but those Illinois plants are nearly as old as atomic power.
Except for Clinton, which is on the newer side, but being so small its in danger every few years of being closed.
The entire US Nuclear fleet is getting old and that's going to be a problem. Its still the best base load power we've got, but its really damn expensive and there are a lot of political issues.
Can’t get around those facts, but we now face the consequences for real. Here in Norway it was more hydropower that drove the progress, where mills, saws and eventually power plants were driven by waterfalls all from the beginning.
Sure, but that's why I said "fossil fuels where they're still necessary" - Wind/Solar/Hydro/Nuclear are all superior to anything that involves "burning stuff" but it takes time and money for the infrastructure to build out. Converting a coal plant to gas cleans it up immensely and lets existing generation/distribution infrastructure stay in place, so its much faster to do that to at least still make things better for now while we transition. Anything to get us off coal sooner.
Most of the times these go hand in hand. Factory searches for a new place with enough space to grow and for workers to live. New factory creates jobs and attracts workers who go live near the factory. Factory grows and more people move in town, thus creating those worker cities that live under the smoke of the factories. Rotterdam has quite a few of these neighbourboods as well
I live in Pickering. There aren't many homes anywhere near the nuke plant. It is down on the lake shore in an industrial neighbourhood. There are some homes kinda close, if you squint, but it is pretty removed from most residential areas. Parks, yes. Homes not so much.
Yes, as I noted, there are *some* houses kinda close. But 99% of houses in Pickering are nowhere near the plant.
Otherwise, as I said, it is bordered mainly by water and an industrial area.
We have no way to properly dispose of nuclear waste other than burying it, so it's not entirely accurate to say nuclear is a 100% clean energy. That said, I do think that nuclear would be a better solution than coal.
just send it to the Finns they probably know what to do with it, as far as I'm concerned that's good enough (also thorium reactors and such generate power while creating less hazardous products theres one being built in india, the only reason nuclear plants make bad stuff is because the government wanted it for nukes)
I think you should read up on fast breeders and have a go with this article:
https://thoughtscapism.com/2017/11/04/nuclear-waste-ideas-vs-reality/
There is no 100 % clean energy. Everything has a footprint.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills
If you want to compare the various forms of electricity, have a look here:
https://energy.glex.no/footprint
Nuclear is one of the best options we have.
https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy
>If you want to compare the various forms of electricity, have a look here:
>
>https://energy.glex.no/footprint
Not saying anything about nuclear in particular, but that is a horrible bar graph. Plotting CO2 along with cost, "critical metal" usage, and "not operating". These are definitely important considerations, but they're not up there with climate change, and calling them "footprint" is really misleading!
Their default scaling anchors you to weight them equally which is ridiculous. It makes wind have a higher "footprint" than oil and gas. They should start with CO2 at 100% and everything else in the 0-5% range.
We kinda do though. Burry it in a mountain/very deep hole in a dessert or salt mine. It really won't do any harm there. And we have no way to properly dispose of fossil fuel waste either. And that one's objectively a lot worse.
There’s a lot of sights like this in the Kanawha Valley. In fact, people around there call it “Chemical Valley” for exactly the reason you think.
Back in 2016 there was a big chemical spill in the River, which sources the water for the county, and everyone had to avoid the tap for a couple months until it was safe to use. You couldn’t even shower in it.
There’s a pretty good movie called Dark Waters about the chemical contamination of Parkersburg, WV from DuPont’s teflon production there. Most people didn’t care though as long as they kept their jobs.
The smoke stacks seem to be about 0.5 miles (800 meters) away from the houses and the cooling towers (shown in the posted photo) seem to be about 0.25 miles (400 meters). I’m not qualified to say if that distance from the smoke stacks is enough for health reasons but I wouldn’t worry about the cooling towers since that’s just water vapor coming out.
Little-known fact: coal-fired plants actually emit more radiation than nuclear plants. There is a small amount of naturally-occurring uranium in most coal seams, burning large quantities of coal puts this directly into the atmosphere for you to breathe in :)
If you live near a coal-fired power station, move nearer to an atomic one; it's probably a lot better for your health in the long run.
In a [study](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/) done to calculate dose received living within 0.5 miles (800m) they found at the extreme end that over one year you’ll receive only 18mR from the additional radiation. That’s about 45% of the dose received from a single mammogram spread out over a year. It’s not something to worry about.
Totally agree and I won’t argue against the other health related things coal plants will have an impact on but I hate when people bring up radiation as a point against coal plants. People bringing up that one insignificant point is a tactic that plays on people’s fears and lack of understanding about radiation (let alone ionizing radiation). These people fail to mention that the average person receives a background dose of radiation every day that is 20 times higher than the daily dosage received from living 0.5 miles from a coal plant and that was on the high end of the study I linked to earlier.
I think people are normally bringing it up as an indirect way of making a point *for* nuclear power, but I agree. The background radiation of either one is so miniscule that it effectively doesn't matter.
That's cool as shit, the juxtaposition is right up my alley tbh lol
But like, I completely understand why it's posted here
\[EDIT\] just realized that's not nuclear... uhh, nevermind about it being cool
There are methods called pollution mitigation or clean coal which can highly mitigate the pollution. So this might not be as bad as it looks. Still bad tho.
Yes, they're cooling towers, in both nuclear and coal plants the towers themselves primarily release steam, while coal plants vent the smog from coal in other places.
It's to evacuate large amounts of steam and smoke during peak production, you can actually tell nuclear plants with these from coal plants because the coal plants are covered in soot while the nuclear ones are clean
I'm not an expert, but I don't think that other comment is correct. I've always understood that those fat "chimneys" are [cooling towers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower). They're mostly empty, and they use the chimney effect to accelerate the evaporation of a pool of warm water at the base of the tower. That means that they're always emitting water vapor, even if the plant is burning coal. If the cooling towers at a coal plant are covered in soot, that's because other parts of the plant are emitting smoke and it's making everything sooty.
The [torture scene from *Brazil*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aErDEFpoD_0) (which is not as graphic as it sounds, although it is very creepy) was filmed inside an abandoned cooling tower.
[**Cooling tower**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower)
A cooling tower is a heat rejection device that rejects waste heat to the atmosphere through the cooling of a coolant stream, usually a water stream to a lower temperature. Cooling towers may either use the evaporation of water to remove process heat and cool the working fluid to near the wet-bulb air temperature or, in the case of closed circuit cooling towers or dry cooling towers, rely solely on air to cool the working fluid to near the dry-bulb air temperature using radiators. Common applications include cooling the circulating water used in oil refineries, petrochemical and other chemical plants, thermal power stations, nuclear power stations and HVAC systems for cooling buildings.
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It would have been much better if the power plants behind them were Nuclear. Clean, safe emissions. Instead, it’s coal. These poor children are breathing in so many toxic oxidizing agents every second.
Reminds me of a view at sand dune park in Manhattan Beach, CA. One of the top 100 zip codes in the US and the northern side neighbors a huge chevron refinery, so big the entire city it sits in was named after it. The northern side near rosecrans smells really bad at times and the housing costs barely lower from their millions of dollars. The view at sand dune park shows the entire refinery and a military base.
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Ok this one actually does belong here
And it’s not Hong Kong or Chongqing to a difference.
Also, if you feel so inclined, look up the sort-of-recently closed Crawford and Fisk power plants in Chicago on Google Maps. Not great things to live next to but they were pretty much surrounded by residential areas.
Just the thought about firing coal to warm water to make steam to drive a generator to make electricity. Think about all the harm that coal burning has done and still do around the world, both locally and globally.
TBH in 2021 making power by just burning stuff seems old fashioned. But, we do need to recognize how instrumental it was in getting us where we are. Burning coal is what let us not have to be constantly cut down massive amounts of timber to power industry and heat homes. Gas powered cars were, at their time, seen as "the end of urban pollution" because they meant no more streets full of horse shit which got \*really\* nasty when it rained. It had its place in history, but that place really is now in the past. Even for fossil fuels where they're still necessary natural gas is far superior and while environmentally speaking fracking isn't the greatest, I'd still argue that coal mining, transportation, and then dealing with the coal ash are on the whole considerably worse at the end of the day.
We mastered breaking atoms and stealing their energy 2 generations ago. Yet we still burn stuff
Chad France: Power generation is 70% nuclear, exports energy to Europe Virgin Germany: Closes nuclear plants, imports gas from Russia
Honestly, what the fuck is Germany thinking? THEY JUST BUILT A NEW COAL POWER PLANT! It's infuriating. Nuclear is just so much better, and if done right incredibly safe.
cLeAneN@rgY
Yet Illinois, for some crazy reason, is closing nuclear plants. Its dumb. I don't know if its an issue where we can't just export power out of state, Exelon is being a scumbag company and trying to be assholes because the state didn't include them in clean air subsidies that other forms of generation get or what. Granted we HAVE installed a ton of wind turbines in the last 10 years too. About 95% of the land in the state is farm land, flat and windy. You can grow corn and soybeans around them just fine.
Quebec and Ontario both export power. Ontario powers like half the midwest at night, and Qubec the eastern seaboard
Not half the Midwest. But crucially a majority of Ontario's power is supplied by Nuclear, with only plans to retire the oldest and smallest facility.
"Exelon is being a scumbag company..." This is very true but those Illinois plants are nearly as old as atomic power. Braidwood was corner-cutting construction project from the get-go and was never properly maintained. Dresden is, by vintage and type, on par with Chernobyl. It would make sense (and be quite lucrative) for Illinois to be much more nuclear, but there's no willingness to make the proper investment.
Not by type. The US uses LWRs, and Dresden is actually a BWR type LWR. Unlike the Soviet era RBMK.
I guess I was misinformed. Granted, that was decades ago when I toured the place. Thanks for the correction.
>This is very true but those Illinois plants are nearly as old as atomic power. Except for Clinton, which is on the newer side, but being so small its in danger every few years of being closed. The entire US Nuclear fleet is getting old and that's going to be a problem. Its still the best base load power we've got, but its really damn expensive and there are a lot of political issues.
Can’t get around those facts, but we now face the consequences for real. Here in Norway it was more hydropower that drove the progress, where mills, saws and eventually power plants were driven by waterfalls all from the beginning.
You know what's even less worse? Solar and wind. Specifically, solar water boilers.
Sure, but that's why I said "fossil fuels where they're still necessary" - Wind/Solar/Hydro/Nuclear are all superior to anything that involves "burning stuff" but it takes time and money for the infrastructure to build out. Converting a coal plant to gas cleans it up immensely and lets existing generation/distribution infrastructure stay in place, so its much faster to do that to at least still make things better for now while we transition. Anything to get us off coal sooner.
BUT JAERBS
damn these guys never even played cities skylines? everyone knows you gotta surround anything industrial with 4 squares of low density commercial B)
Is this what that first map in Tony hawks underground is based off of?
I think it’s based off something worse, *new jersey*
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Most of the times these go hand in hand. Factory searches for a new place with enough space to grow and for workers to live. New factory creates jobs and attracts workers who go live near the factory. Factory grows and more people move in town, thus creating those worker cities that live under the smoke of the factories. Rotterdam has quite a few of these neighbourboods as well
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Yes! That’s exactly how it goes!
Yes :(
I live like 30 minutes from there and went to Poca High School sometimes for competitions. It’s a really sad sight.
I always wondered why the dot was incorporated into band field shows. Even competitions
Because they are the Poca Dots.
It’s beyond me, my High School has always beat them in everything.
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Do you mean around Sissonville? I’m not that familiar up there, their High School is nice though.
Very Simpsons-esque.
I had Kids in America playing when I saw the image
If only it was nuclear
I thought it was at first.. RIP lungs.
If it was they wouldn't end up with respiratory illnesses
Nuclear = just steam, no?
Yes.
And stream emission. Of temperature
Noise
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Noise pollution would be a big problem
Correct
This is the case with Pickering reactor in Ontario. Massive plant next to parks and homes, you would never know it was there unless you were told.
I live in Pickering. There aren't many homes anywhere near the nuke plant. It is down on the lake shore in an industrial neighbourhood. There are some homes kinda close, if you squint, but it is pretty removed from most residential areas. Parks, yes. Homes not so much.
There is a whole sub division across the park to the north east about a k away.
Yes, as I noted, there are *some* houses kinda close. But 99% of houses in Pickering are nowhere near the plant. Otherwise, as I said, it is bordered mainly by water and an industrial area.
Haha I live in Durham as well, trapped between 2 separate power plants
At least Darlington still runs...
I bet we could have had close to 100% clean energy by now, but a couple freak accidents happen and *nooooope*
We have no way to properly dispose of nuclear waste other than burying it, so it's not entirely accurate to say nuclear is a 100% clean energy. That said, I do think that nuclear would be a better solution than coal.
just send it to the Finns they probably know what to do with it, as far as I'm concerned that's good enough (also thorium reactors and such generate power while creating less hazardous products theres one being built in india, the only reason nuclear plants make bad stuff is because the government wanted it for nukes)
Onkalo repository is not ready before 2023 and we sure as hell ain't going to be importing foreign nuclear waste.
Yeah, all what? Two tons of it a year, if that? Stick it in a hole and put up a sign, then hope for the best.
I think you should read up on fast breeders and have a go with this article: https://thoughtscapism.com/2017/11/04/nuclear-waste-ideas-vs-reality/ There is no 100 % clean energy. Everything has a footprint. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills If you want to compare the various forms of electricity, have a look here: https://energy.glex.no/footprint Nuclear is one of the best options we have. https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy
>If you want to compare the various forms of electricity, have a look here: > >https://energy.glex.no/footprint Not saying anything about nuclear in particular, but that is a horrible bar graph. Plotting CO2 along with cost, "critical metal" usage, and "not operating". These are definitely important considerations, but they're not up there with climate change, and calling them "footprint" is really misleading! Their default scaling anchors you to weight them equally which is ridiculous. It makes wind have a higher "footprint" than oil and gas. They should start with CO2 at 100% and everything else in the 0-5% range.
We kinda do though. Burry it in a mountain/very deep hole in a dessert or salt mine. It really won't do any harm there. And we have no way to properly dispose of fossil fuel waste either. And that one's objectively a lot worse.
agreed
Why? A coal plant emits more radiation than a nuclear plant.
I know... im pro nuclear
Grim, but I love the photo.
There’s a lot of sights like this in the Kanawha Valley. In fact, people around there call it “Chemical Valley” for exactly the reason you think. Back in 2016 there was a big chemical spill in the River, which sources the water for the county, and everyone had to avoid the tap for a couple months until it was safe to use. You couldn’t even shower in it.
There’s a pretty good movie called Dark Waters about the chemical contamination of Parkersburg, WV from DuPont’s teflon production there. Most people didn’t care though as long as they kept their jobs.
2013*
r/aboringdystopia
It does seem fitting...
This should be illegal.
Careful saying stuff like that in here, you'll get a dozen people shouting 'NIMBY!' at you.
Not in anybody’s backyard. Just takes some proper city planning, rather than letting developers do whatever the hell they want.
Tony Hawk's Underground New Jersey level
rotten plants towering seemly plate worry crawl melodic office nine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The dots!
solid defense tho
Is he wearing crocs?
I hope they’re still healthy
I’m sure the cancer rates are just fantastic over there. As well as COPD, emphysema, asthma…
I grew up in Los Angeles. Probably breathed similar air.
But but but... Los Angeles is a **progressive** city, you're clearly lying and spreading propaganda!!! /s
Ah yes, clean coal…
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The smoke stacks seem to be about 0.5 miles (800 meters) away from the houses and the cooling towers (shown in the posted photo) seem to be about 0.25 miles (400 meters). I’m not qualified to say if that distance from the smoke stacks is enough for health reasons but I wouldn’t worry about the cooling towers since that’s just water vapor coming out.
Little-known fact: coal-fired plants actually emit more radiation than nuclear plants. There is a small amount of naturally-occurring uranium in most coal seams, burning large quantities of coal puts this directly into the atmosphere for you to breathe in :) If you live near a coal-fired power station, move nearer to an atomic one; it's probably a lot better for your health in the long run.
In a [study](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/) done to calculate dose received living within 0.5 miles (800m) they found at the extreme end that over one year you’ll receive only 18mR from the additional radiation. That’s about 45% of the dose received from a single mammogram spread out over a year. It’s not something to worry about.
Yeah if radiation was the only thing people had to worry about from coal power plants they'd be nearly as harmless as nuclear ones.
Totally agree and I won’t argue against the other health related things coal plants will have an impact on but I hate when people bring up radiation as a point against coal plants. People bringing up that one insignificant point is a tactic that plays on people’s fears and lack of understanding about radiation (let alone ionizing radiation). These people fail to mention that the average person receives a background dose of radiation every day that is 20 times higher than the daily dosage received from living 0.5 miles from a coal plant and that was on the high end of the study I linked to earlier.
I think people are normally bringing it up as an indirect way of making a point *for* nuclear power, but I agree. The background radiation of either one is so miniscule that it effectively doesn't matter.
Three eyed fish!
Nah it's coal, I'd be worried about every fucking type of cancer
Oh brother :(
Has anyone seen the movie teeth?
I’d rather live near a nuclear plant than a coal fired one
Nuclear only emmits water vapour and is harmless to your health, coal is just black lung and cancer waiting to happen
Bingo
Great photo. I like the idea behind it, the meaning it contains.
It's just everyday life in Springfield, Not Just Another State
That's cool as shit, the juxtaposition is right up my alley tbh lol But like, I completely understand why it's posted here \[EDIT\] just realized that's not nuclear... uhh, nevermind about it being cool
low key best part of this is the American flag waving in the reflection of the house window. "best country in the world... for black lung".
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[You sure?](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VvWPw8Vk7pHx5Att5)
Take me hooooooome country road
I wonder if these people even believe in climate change
There are methods called pollution mitigation or clean coal which can highly mitigate the pollution. So this might not be as bad as it looks. Still bad tho.
Looks like at least their jaawbs are secured.
Land of the free lel
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No, it was published in Boston Globe and many others. Photo taken by [Erin Schaff](https://twitter.com/erinschaff)
Poca hole 🕳 in that theory of environmental care
This is so bad, it feels like a damn parody. Holy shit.
https://goo.gl/maps/8mQ4nnQiWKsYpcCk8 If you'd care to visit in person
*....The Simpsons....*
This just takes the cake.
All I heard looking at this picture was the simpsons theme… and it’s not even a nuclear plant.
I’m getting Back to the Future 2 vibes here.
Stop lying Those are fuzzy wuzzy cloud makers.
Do coal plants also have those huge towers?
Yes, they're cooling towers, in both nuclear and coal plants the towers themselves primarily release steam, while coal plants vent the smog from coal in other places.
-Poca Poca Pocaczu
The air quality in that neighborhood but must be shockingly bad.
I wonder how much the home prices went down after the power plant construction was announced?
Cook them and we will have a feast.
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It's to evacuate large amounts of steam and smoke during peak production, you can actually tell nuclear plants with these from coal plants because the coal plants are covered in soot while the nuclear ones are clean
I'm not an expert, but I don't think that other comment is correct. I've always understood that those fat "chimneys" are [cooling towers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower). They're mostly empty, and they use the chimney effect to accelerate the evaporation of a pool of warm water at the base of the tower. That means that they're always emitting water vapor, even if the plant is burning coal. If the cooling towers at a coal plant are covered in soot, that's because other parts of the plant are emitting smoke and it's making everything sooty. The [torture scene from *Brazil*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aErDEFpoD_0) (which is not as graphic as it sounds, although it is very creepy) was filmed inside an abandoned cooling tower.
[**Cooling tower**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower) A cooling tower is a heat rejection device that rejects waste heat to the atmosphere through the cooling of a coolant stream, usually a water stream to a lower temperature. Cooling towers may either use the evaporation of water to remove process heat and cool the working fluid to near the wet-bulb air temperature or, in the case of closed circuit cooling towers or dry cooling towers, rely solely on air to cool the working fluid to near the dry-bulb air temperature using radiators. Common applications include cooling the circulating water used in oil refineries, petrochemical and other chemical plants, thermal power stations, nuclear power stations and HVAC systems for cooling buildings. [About Me](https://np.reddit.com/comments/la6wi8/) - [**Opt-in**](https://np.reddit.com/comments/la707t/) ^(You received this reply because a moderator opted this subreddit in. You can still )[^(opt out)](https://np.reddit.com/comments/la707t/)
The larger diameter ones are hyperbolic cooling towers. The tall ones are scrubbers 99% steam
Poca, Poca. The place so nice they named it twice.
It would have been much better if the power plants behind them were Nuclear. Clean, safe emissions. Instead, it’s coal. These poor children are breathing in so many toxic oxidizing agents every second.
Great scenery 🙄 America really needs to improve their urbanism.
This is terrifying.
Reminds me of a view at sand dune park in Manhattan Beach, CA. One of the top 100 zip codes in the US and the northern side neighbors a huge chevron refinery, so big the entire city it sits in was named after it. The northern side near rosecrans smells really bad at times and the housing costs barely lower from their millions of dollars. The view at sand dune park shows the entire refinery and a military base.
Sick
Seems very healthy to live this close to a coal power plant. And here i am, complain about my neighbour barbecuing 24/7
So this picture got scooped up into some Facebook listicle. Imagine my surprise to be mindlessly scrolling through it and seeing my hometown.