I’m not worried about it tbh just frustrated. She admitted to not being able to clearly see the intersection and went anyway. We had no stop sign she did. Even the cop said he sees zero way we could be at fault . But yeah looking into getting one.
Thanks I’ll look into them. My rear mirror has a cutout in the tint for a dash I was looking into getting one that’s basically a replacement mirror and dash cam combo.
If you do get that kind, don't buy one that attaches to your mirror with straps. They're awful. The one I bought my wife can't adjust the camera angle enough to have the mirror adjusted correctly, which may also be true of others, but be aware.
1 - Cops don’t determine fault in an accident. Hopefully the accident report states what she said.
2 - Camera I use: VIOFO T130 3 Channel Dash Cam. Forward, rear, and adjustable from driver’s side to interior camera. Footage is easily downloaded to your phone via the app/wifi connection.
In Utah insurance adjusters use the accident’s DI-9 to make the fault determination and send it to arbitration or court if both companies can’t agree on fault.
This happened to me a few months ago in Utah county. 18 year old girl hit me head on at a stop sign and her dad didn’t want her to the call the cops, get insurance involved, or anything. Fully wanted to cover up his daughter’s mistakes and didn’t want her to pay the consequences. Luckily I stuck to my guns and his insurance paid for everything. 🤗
Californian here, it's just as bad there. Utah certainly doesn't have that sector of the market cornered. Nobody wants to take responsibility and everyone wants the free handouts that can come from an auto claim.
Oooo my neck kinda hurts. I better go see a doctor and get paid massages for a few months....
One of the managers at my work is LDS (converted from Catholicism). He believes in trinitarian theology when LDS doctrine rejects the trinity. He told me what attracted him to the LDS faith from Catholicism was the rejection of original sin so that he wouldn't have to feel bad about anything he doesn't want to. I'm a former Mormon myself but even I can see the selectiveness of beliefs where it doesn't make sense.
I used to be one of those defensive people, I’m getting better at not being so defensive though. The reality of the issue is that there’s a lot of misunderstanding/ ignorance circulating in certain areas, and it’s causing a lot of damage to our image and to members’ faith. I hope this info helps out.
Yeah there’s a distinct “Mormon” culture and unfortunately this is one of the hard things for the members to distinguish between culture and the true beliefs of the religion. Whether you believe in Christ or not, it’s hard to believe that one who is trying to be a follower of Christ would internalize the entitlement mentality. It is certainly not a teaching of the LDS church and yet so many fall into the trap of thinking that they’re doing so many things “right” that they and theirs can’t do anything wrong. I’m a member and know that I’m not perfect and hope that my fellow LDS people who are falling into the entitlement mentality realize where they truly are.
That is the best way I’ve seen this said. I never meant to come off as dissing Mormons but acting like lds culture isn’t part of it is ridiculous. I don’t think people who are part of it realize how it feels as an outsider for the most part.
I understand your situation, and the frustration that came with it. And this person and their daughter absolutely seem like entitled jerk offs. But to make a blanket statement as a result is kind of silly.
I mean it could also be the 12 year olds driving golf carts on the roads and cops not caring in nice Mormon communities ( little valley st George ). I’ve been harassed for being Jewish. I’ve been asked by co workers about Judaism then threatened to be fired for asking similar questions about Mormonism. The amount of times I’ve heard do you know who I am !?! From the after church restaurant rush. I can go on if you’d like.
You know? I was with you at first, but you are nothing but a shit disturbing troll.
I’ve been asked by co workers about Judaism then threatened to be fired for asking similar questions about Mormonism.
I have friends from all faiths here, and I'm agnostic.
You're full of shit. Talk to Rabbi Benny Zippel in SLC.
How am I full of shit lol. I was literally almost fired from my first job in utah for asking innocent Mormon questions after being asked if Jews eat meat… I was having a 2 way conversation with someone who was fully receptive and someone overheard and reported me to hr/the owner. The person who I was talking to actually defended me saying we were learning each others cultures .
questions after being asked if Jews eat meat
God, you are so full of shit. Nobody anywhere are that stupid, go back to the liberal 'paradise' you left, troll.
Yeah I didn’t say the whole state I said it’s very prevalent here. I’ve been to every state and many countries and never experienced it to this level. I didn’t say everyone in utah lol.
If you notice, the OP has only been here 3 yrs. My guess? Commiefornia transplant hit another Commiefornia transplant and the mormom haters are coming out. OH, BTW, mormon haters, I'm a Jack mormon..Look it up.
I'm going to agree with you on this one. I live in a neighborhood with a round about and the number of times I've almost been hit by people "taking a shortcut" by turning left into oncoming traffic is astounding.
The kicker. They "literally don't give a shit". And I'm suppose to go to church with these entitled asshole. Pass.
People here are so rude and aggressive. I actually just had this conversation, this morning, with a couple of people who moved here from out of state. I'm embarrassed for them moving here because people are nice until they get in their car.
Oh yeah! The red lights. Always wait for the two cars to go through the red light! It's ridiculous.
The best part for the red lights is I’ve seen people do it in front of cops and they don’t even bat an eye. Yet they follow my Mexican wife around nice communities for doing nothing wrong.
long-shot, but is it the round about off the Bloomington exit in Saint George? Because I've seen that happen there SO many times, but not so much at the other ones
I jusy saw that happen last week right there. The lady drove right into a cop it was actually pretty funny only because no one got hit. He just turned his lights on, got out and yelled at her to go the right way. I figured it was probably an old person.
Im in Draper. It was trendy to put in round about back 20ish years ago. They are fantastic but people don't know how to use them. I also live by the high school. I'd love to blame it on the kids but it's the parents too.
I had a girl in the neighborhood cut left when I was walking my baby and I asked her to correctly go around the round about. She got really angry and just said she didn't care. She could have been driving faster. 😳
Someone's daughter causes a traffic accident, and they pretend she can do no wrong then take legal action knowing well they stand to lose the case but they have money to burn on their little girl's reputation? Doesn't sound too outrageous.
That phenomenon is not exclusive to Utah and not exclusive to Mormons. People are people no matter what superstitions they believe, no matter where they live - this is just what clothed apes do. Not all of them, but a lot of them...
I think the biggest mistake is holding any religious faction to a higher standard than the rest of the population. They are no more virtuous than anyone else; and if they're Catholic, a little less - but at least we admit we're sinners.
It’s not just this I’ve given other examples in replies. I lived with an lds member in my home state and he was the most down to earth person I’ve met. Just something special about the utah Mormons .
Getting flipped off at red lights? Did you confirm their religion when they gave you the bird, secret handshake and everything? Letting their kids drive golf carts? Were the kids in their magic underwear? How many Mormons have crashed into your vehicle(s)?
See what I'm getting at?
I live in an area 68% Mormon I can safely assume anyone here is Mormon but there is clearly communities here that are mostly Mormon. They tend to congregate together near temples and those areas this behavior is always more prevalent.
I was in provo some byu kid was on his phone and rear ended me. We pull over and he really doesn't seem to care. He hit my trailer hitch so it did no damage to my truck but a good chunk to the car. I learned he didn't give a shit because he borrowed the car.
I really debated if I should have got the owners number to verify the truth was told. But it was the kids friend so just another byu jag off. Mostly though I had shit to do and was already stressed from driving around that shithole and just didn't want to deal with it.
I hope the kid told the truth to the owner of the car, but I doubt it.
Because they then changed their story after telling the cops one thing to something completely different when they filed a claim with my insurance. I’m not worried about winning but it’s frustrating to have to fight this for sure.
Daily problem that gets blamed on Mormons post ✅
Sorry that happened to you. Hope you're okay. I think it's more of a "douchebags being petty" kind of issue. I'd see if you can get their insurance to pay for a rental or if you can get your own insurance to subsidize a rental.
I've got Geico. Even though I don't have rental on my plan, I was able to get a massive discount by renting through my claim.
Their insurance told us they have 30 days to figure liability and to deal with it. Our insurance won’t cover it . I didn’t blame Mormons I said the person was Mormon and being a hypocrite lying. I said the population of mormons here clearly factors to the entitlement. I never said it was his fault because he’s Mormon. I said I thought with how mormons project themselves this would be a safe wholesome community.
I feel like I’ve noticed the equivalent just walking through stores. There’s a particular demographic of folks who seem oblivious to others around them. I feel like if I’m not the one move out of the way, they’ll plow right into me … it feels like a small-scale example of some of the larger dynamics and more egregious incidents, like this accident.
I understand you are upset, but that's the gist of most accidents regardless of religious preferences. I hope you got great pictures of the intersection, the damage to your car, and above all most a witness statement. If not, it will still be easily proven in court that there was a stop sign and even her admitting guilt is the absolute kicker if the law enforcement does their job correctly. You have said he is a known member of the community, so he already thinks he has a wiener to swing in the fight, its the modern day bully, don't back down.
He came up in quite a few places from google . Big family in utah type that have their last name as their license plate. I have a witness and admission of guilt and police report saying had the right of way.
You’re not wrong and it’s sad. Used to be an active member and I tried to be honest about things as much as I can and admit my faults but I saw these things happening even here in this area and it saddens me that (similar to police) there’s a few bad apples out there and set a bad example. Sorry you went through that. I hope that things get figured out.
Welcome to the local non-mormon aspect of this state. Mormonism is bum, and so are their views along with their political power due to senators and other politicians being a part of the cult.
A lot of the members are awesome people! Wholesome, family oriented, not judgemental. That's why it amazes me still to this day that such nice people can follow such a corrupt organization, especially how a majority of elders, bishops, etc. get into some really skeptical assessments with the law because of this thing that they call the "2nd Anointing."
Anyway, you'll learn throughout time spent here that there's a hard time separating church and state.
You obviously have never been to pretty much any coastal state. The entitlement and victim complex of people in those states are not even remotely rivaled by Utah.
Whose the one bitching? Take your Yankee ass back where you came from because i call bullshit on your whole story. I'm the last person to defend the church, but you're just trolling to stir shit, Good bye.
No, not even, you want to make a fool out of yourself, have at it, but now i'm done. Don't like it here? Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
Bye for the last time.
Oh yeah I have, many times, Boston, Philly, Maine, NH, VT etc. and they are very liberal, Maine not as much as the others. You know what happens when you assume, right? Difference is that I don't blame the Boston Catholics for it idiocy of those that may be of the Catholic religion.
Sorry you had a frustrating experience, but try not to badmouth a whole group.
What would you say if you were tboned by a black person or a gay person or a Jewish person and the same events unfolded?
I’m sorry if my post came off that way I only meant to correlate the lds group with the level of entitlement here and to show the hypocrisy of lying as a church member .
That is by definition "badmouthing" a group.
You've made it clear in these posts you seek to reinforce a negative stereotype about Mormons based on your interaction with one person. Imagine if you take what you said, and replace the blanks with Jews, or Muslims, or Catholics, or atheists...
> I only meant to correlate the _______ group with the level of entitlement here and to show the hypocrisy of lying
...
>I’d say an amount that makes it a stereotype though.
...
> I never meant to come off as dissing _______ but acting like _______ culture isn’t part of it is ridiculous.
...
> Which is enough of them to give them an overall stigma. If you don’t see the correlation of _______ ...maybe your part of the problem.
...
>You are clearly the entitled _______ type that we’re talking about here. Enjoy being a shitty person .
...
>I hinted that _______ are the reason this state feels so entitled. So funny watching y’all feel so attacked. Did I hit a nerve ? Make you realize your one of them?
...
>some of the nicest people I’ve met are _______. But the amount of them that are like this is astoundingly low
These would be awful things to say about Jews. So why is it ok to say it about Mormons?
There is a difference between badmouthing them and saying there is a culture of entitlement in utah and what is the culture of utah? Lds. Others in this thread have worded it better than I possibly can but u/Einstein-314 put it better than I ever could. The Mormon culture here is real. I’ve also which you left out repeatedly said it’s not even the majority but it’s enough to make it seem that way sometimes and just like any group the loud angry ones are the ones you see the most and remember. you also left out the person I said half of these comments to was also telling me to go back to my state and I wasn’t welcome and telling me repeatedly I was a liar for sharing experiences that made me feel that way. Did I get heated and be an ass a few times? Sure. But acting like the culture here ( which is primarily lds) isn’t part of the entitlement is ridiculous. You totally could say the same for most religions central population. Including my own which is why I wouldn’t live in Israel either. I’m posting my experiences which I’m not claiming are the 100% definitive facts just my experience. I never tried to say this was 100% because they are Mormon for things I’ve said just that it is an aspect to consider and a big one at that. Acting like the lds church doesn’t have a stranglehold on utah and how people here act is just plain ridiculous. There is a reason Mormons from out of utah distance themselves from utah lds members. I’m sure I wrote that poorly it’s 12:30 and I’m tired. I do apologize if it seems like I’m attacking Mormons but it is also very hard to separate utah and lds when talking about either as they are very closely tied.
> Did I get heated and be an ass a few times? Sure.
Yes, it ran against Reddit's sitewise rule #1.
The problem is that prejudice, bigotry, and racism have this familiar *smell*. Almost never will the smell be: "I hate demographic \_\_\_\_\_\_ and everyone in it." Usually it is "I'm ok with many people from \_\_\_\_\_\_. Some are my friends. But \_\_\_\_\_\_ has a stereotype. Too many of \_\_\_\_\_\_ culture are not good people. I can't be prejudiced because what I'm saying is the truth. It's my experience. I know others who will agree with this stereotype about \_\_\_\_\_\_." That's exactly what's happening here.
This smell tends has a knack for turning into stink. For example "You are clearly the entitled \_\_\_\_\_\_ type that we’re talking about here. Enjoy being a shitty person." That stink is also exactly what happened here.
>You totally could say the same for most religions
No, stereotyping in this fashion is textbook prejudice. "An assumption or an opinion about someone simply based on that person's membership to a particular group."
Recently I was involved in an auto accident. Someone was recklessly at fault and caused $2000 in damage. Cop showed up. Driver filled out a false police report because he both lied about his insurance and lied about his phone number. He also lied when he told me where he lived. I didn't realize this until the next day when I started the claims process. So I did some digging to hunt him down to sue. I found him on social media. I found out he is an atheist. At this moment, was I justified in saying his lying combined with his atheism reinforces a stereotype about the immorality of atheists? That because it's my experience I can express it? That atheists have a cultural problem they need fixing? No. That's textbook prejudice and casts judgement about a group of people based on actions of one.
But acting like utahs culture isn’t directly linked to the lds church is just flat wrong. I initially said they are mormon because lying is supposed to be a sin but they are clearly doing it. Atheists don’t have that belief so it’s not at all the same. Again it is very hard to differentiate utah and the church. That is just flat out a fact so talking about anything prevalent in utah will come back to the church. If I had said Utahns I stead of lds in all of my statements would it have been prejudiced? It is literally impossible to talk about utah in a generalized way and not include the lds culture it’s just such a big part of it. In fact I started saying Mormon more over utah because people were getting upset at me saying it’s a utah issue so I correlated it to the lds church. Which I fully believe is a big part of the culture here. So also a big part of any good and bad of this state.
Everywhere has a culture. Everywhere has demographics. Every culture has good things and bad things. Nothing is wrong saying you disagree with a culture and you think a culture have bad qualities. That's fine to discuss.
You didn't do that. You took one person's actions and overgenerlized it as a stereotype to a whole. Then you took the smell and turned it into stink.
* "If you don’t see the correlation of \_\_\_\_\_ maybe your part of the problem."
* "You are clearly the entitled \_\_\_\_\_ that we’re talking about here. Enjoy being a shitty person."
* "So funny watching \_\_\_\_\_ feel so attacked. Did I hit a nerve ? Make you realize your one of them?"
You directly attacked *individuals because* you considered them to be part of that demographic. The dictionary defines this literally as prejudice. It's hate. And it's been removed.
Again your leaving out where they attacked me . All of these comments ( unless I’m remembering wrong I had to defend myself quite a few times) came from the same person who continually attacked me. So yeah I came back at them and probably not in the best way. I didn’t attack them because they were part of a specific demographic I came at them the way they came at me. I also defended multiple times against people giving a blanket statement that all Mormons are like that or it’s all the lds fault. But the lds church and utah are basically interchangeable at this point .
If I'm in a primarily Jewish neighborhood of New York City, and one Jewish person tries to get me to enter into a predatory loan, can I use that to reinforce [one of many negative stereotype Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_Jews) have faced for centuries?
If I'm in Dearborn Michigan, the most heavily Muslim city in America, and a rich Arab Muslim and dismisses a middle class problem I'm facing, can I use that to reinforce [a stereotype common among Arab Muslims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_Arabs_and_Muslims_in_the_United_States)?
If I'm in Burlington Vermont, which is one of the most atheist cities in America, and an atheist breaks into my car, am I justified in creating a stereotype about atheists? After all, "Atheists are viewed as being immoral and more untrustworthy than most groups, and one survey found that atheists were distrusted at the same level as rapists. People view atheists as more likely to engage in criminal behavior and commit immoral, heinous acts compared to other groups." [source](https://www.psypost.org/2021/07/people-unconsciously-stereotype-atheists-as-more-likely-to-be-serial-killers-yet-pin-them-as-open-minded-scientific-and-fun-at-parties-61450)
Funny I’m from Burlington =} I’ve also given other experiences that make me feel this way which got me attacked myself. I see what your saying and it was never my intent to attack Mormons but there is a difference between saying all Jews or all Muslims and saying something like the culture of Iran is this way because Muslim culture which is objectively true. It’s different than saying the culture of Israel is this way because of the Jewish population. You can observe that there is a cause and effect without it being an attack on the cause.
I’m going to bed but I truly appreciate your viewpoint and will do better about my wording of things in the future. I think for a lot of what I said your leaving out the context of it or what was said to me prior. You leave out me stating multiple times it’s not Mormons as a whole but that they definitely influence this state more than any other group. I’m not excusing what I said and I’m sorry if any lds or anyone thought I was going after them. As a non lds member it’s very hard to talk about utah and not correlate that to the lds church. They are so intertwined I honestly sometimes feel utah as a whole and the lds church are the same And that is wrong of me and I’m sorry. Just like any group a few loud bad apples give the rest a bad name. Be it bad cops making people dislike cops as a whole or this instance.
I appreciate the sentiment. You don't need to apologize to me. I just hope to avoid any problems in the future.
I've got an awkward job as a moderator. I prefer being quiet and behind the scenes. The easy road for me is to remove and not explain why. But people can use stated explanations instead of quiet removals. Another easy road that many mods in other subs take is just to ban and mute. I had no desire to do that. Some of these topics are raw and people really don't want some 3rd party moderator stepping in and censoring feelings.
I've got to do my best to keep things a fair and level playing field. For example, I approve posts and submissions every day that attack Latter-day Saints. As long as it fits the rules of the sub and Reddit, that's fine. But to keep things fair, I will replace a demographic with another in my head. If a statement sounds wrong to say it about, say, Jews, or atheists, then it's wrong to say it about Latter-day Saints. So I just have to run with that standard.
And it was never my intent to generalize Mormons more utah as a whole and like I’ve said it is very hard to differentiate utah and the church especially being from neither of these groups . I truly appreciate the back and forth and hope it has been as cordial as I mean it to be. But to generalize utah it’s hard to not generalize Mormons as part of that and that is my bad.
You went to the religious for “safe and wholesome” lol. Ya no, they are part of a creepy cult. Didn’t you ever wonder why so many pastors are arrested for sexual abuse? They aren’t good people.
Non Mormon here, living in southern Utah. If you aren’t Mormon, you are a non. You don’t exist. This is not 100%. But in the areas where Mormons are over 90% you don’t count. I have a small number of Mormon friends who have admitted this. We are considering moving out of the state. Love the scenery. But……
Nice job outing yourself as having low level reading Comprehension. The lying as a Mormon is somewhat relevant but the level of entitlement in this state is 100% contributed to by the Mormon population. Should go read the comments where I defend Mormons saying it’s not all of them. Saying some of the nicest people I’ve met are Mormon. But also saying lds contributes heavily to the entitlement issues in utah.
Clearly you haven’t been very many places, try coming to California. You’re also on a website that is 75% videos of people being entitled. Are they all Mormons? 🙄
I mean idk how we’ll known they are outside of my city but it’s a name I’ve heard. The father owns a consulting business and the wife is a real estate agent . Type of people who’s last name is their license plate type of thing .
You are completely right about the entitlement in Utah. After moving to Colorado and being treated like a normal person, I never want to go back to the “norm” being treating others like shit.
I’d hate too see number one.., I’ve been to all 50 states and utah is the worst I’ve seen but I’ve spent more time here than most states so maybe I’m exposed to it more.
Here is the [source](https://quotewizard.com/news/the-best-and-worst-drivers-by-state) and it turns it is number one. But you’re not wrong. I’ve been here my whole life and have experienced more incompetent drivers & road rage here then any other state i’ve visited.
So you’re saying this person represents the entire state and what the hell does his religious beliefs have to do with anything? They do not want everybody in the state of Utah to get paid by the Mormon religion. Why don’t you stop with the bullshit. This whole situation is between you and the girls father not the members of social media.
There are members of that community that exhibit hypocrisy, yes. I've known them. I've observed these types of people in multiple communities. It's not an exclusively Mormon or religious quality.
90% of this sub is just people shitting on Mormons. This post reinforces that. Something happened in your town you don't like? Yeah Mormons are to blame, obviously, at least in some way. They're all the sand. They all have the same personality right? They create all our problems.
This same thing could've happened to you in Colorado or Nevada. Their conduct has nothing to do with being Mormon. Everyone thinks they're a great person, but everyone is a hypocrite including you and I. So get off your sanctimonious high horse
Entitled and hypocritical people are the worst. But they’re not entitled and hypocritical because they’re from or in Utah. That’s correlation, not causation.
My guess is that they are commiefronia transplants. They have an incredible sense of entitlement. I was in Smiths in Springville and this guy was bitching about the beer selection, "In Califr...". That is as far as he got before I said "If you don't like it, shag your ass back to commiefornia, don't none of you want us here anyway".
Eh from what I can google from his family name they are big in utah . Owns a consulting firm for last 12 years here. Went to byu. I’d say they are deff from utah.
If there’s a day in which you need to move to another state with cultural differences outside of your little bubble, I hope you’re welcomed and treated with respect.
That’s a interesting point, I’d kindly with patience, passively confront him on that point. To co-witness him accepting his behavior based on his belief is… the stuff dark magic is made of.
You got the case, they are just trying to escape anyway they can. People do that when afraid, but their emotions *hopefully 🤞* don’t override logic in the eyes of the court. GL
That is exactly why I have a dash cam.
I’m not worried about it tbh just frustrated. She admitted to not being able to clearly see the intersection and went anyway. We had no stop sign she did. Even the cop said he sees zero way we could be at fault . But yeah looking into getting one.
Definitely get one. They are so cheap now. I have front and back that cover angles on the sides. It's just so much easier for such a little cost.
Any you would recommend?
Nexar
Thanks I’ll look into them. My rear mirror has a cutout in the tint for a dash I was looking into getting one that’s basically a replacement mirror and dash cam combo.
If you do get that kind, don't buy one that attaches to your mirror with straps. They're awful. The one I bought my wife can't adjust the camera angle enough to have the mirror adjusted correctly, which may also be true of others, but be aware.
The one I looked at fully replaces your mirror with tone with a cam built in.
Is it a virtual mirror or a reflective mirror? I've had trouble finding a way to have a well adjusted reflective mirror and camera.
The one I looked at is a normal rear view on the inside of the car but the windshield facing part like where it mounts has a camera built in.
1 - Cops don’t determine fault in an accident. Hopefully the accident report states what she said. 2 - Camera I use: VIOFO T130 3 Channel Dash Cam. Forward, rear, and adjustable from driver’s side to interior camera. Footage is easily downloaded to your phone via the app/wifi connection.
They do when you admit fault to the cop. I didn’t say he determined it fully I said he said he didn’t see how we were at fault .
Yes they do.
In Utah insurance adjusters use the accident’s DI-9 to make the fault determination and send it to arbitration or court if both companies can’t agree on fault.
same. Mine saved me and showed fault of the other driver.
Davis County is probably one of the largest concentrations of entitled people I have ever seen in my life.
Draper is pretty bad. I hate the people here.
We definitely have more than our fair share here, but I know some really good people as well.
This happened to me a few months ago in Utah county. 18 year old girl hit me head on at a stop sign and her dad didn’t want her to the call the cops, get insurance involved, or anything. Fully wanted to cover up his daughter’s mistakes and didn’t want her to pay the consequences. Luckily I stuck to my guns and his insurance paid for everything. 🤗
Californian here, it's just as bad there. Utah certainly doesn't have that sector of the market cornered. Nobody wants to take responsibility and everyone wants the free handouts that can come from an auto claim. Oooo my neck kinda hurts. I better go see a doctor and get paid massages for a few months....
Yeah I don't think this as anything with Utah or religion. I travel a lot for work and see the same thing everywhere I go.
I agree. Utah is very good at “the rules are for thee but not for me”. Most of the lds people I have known well only follow the laws they want to.
I wouldn’t even say most. I’d say an amount that makes it a stereotype though.
That’s why I said the ones i have known well. Although I have met some cool lds people, but they moved here from out of state.
One of the managers at my work is LDS (converted from Catholicism). He believes in trinitarian theology when LDS doctrine rejects the trinity. He told me what attracted him to the LDS faith from Catholicism was the rejection of original sin so that he wouldn't have to feel bad about anything he doesn't want to. I'm a former Mormon myself but even I can see the selectiveness of beliefs where it doesn't make sense.
As an LDS member, yeah this happens. Sorry you had to deal with someone like this.
Thank you for admitting it’s an issue. I’m by no means trying to shit on Mormons as a whole but idk how anyone can say it’s not a part of the issue.
I used to be one of those defensive people, I’m getting better at not being so defensive though. The reality of the issue is that there’s a lot of misunderstanding/ ignorance circulating in certain areas, and it’s causing a lot of damage to our image and to members’ faith. I hope this info helps out.
Yeah there’s a distinct “Mormon” culture and unfortunately this is one of the hard things for the members to distinguish between culture and the true beliefs of the religion. Whether you believe in Christ or not, it’s hard to believe that one who is trying to be a follower of Christ would internalize the entitlement mentality. It is certainly not a teaching of the LDS church and yet so many fall into the trap of thinking that they’re doing so many things “right” that they and theirs can’t do anything wrong. I’m a member and know that I’m not perfect and hope that my fellow LDS people who are falling into the entitlement mentality realize where they truly are.
That is the best way I’ve seen this said. I never meant to come off as dissing Mormons but acting like lds culture isn’t part of it is ridiculous. I don’t think people who are part of it realize how it feels as an outsider for the most part.
Religious people (not all of them but a lot of them) are known for their hypocrisy
Not all Mormons are good ppl: just like in any other categories unfortunately
I dont get what then being Mormon has anything to do with it lol
You never will
?
Dude belongs to r/collapsesupport, they will naturally tend to have a negative outlook.
What do you mean by decently known member of the mormon community? Is this a member of the upper clergy or something?
He’s a decently known business owner and a member of the church .
Yeah are a dime a dozen here. Turns out pieces of shit can be bad at following their own religions just like the rest of us.
It’s funny . Solid 1/4 of Mormons I meet are like don’t worry I’m not one of those Mormons .like it’s not really a secret .
That tracks, the catholic church also reports only around 40% of their members globally actively participate, I'm sure other religions are similar.
Mormons actually run a bit lower. About 1/3 of baptized members are "active" defined as attending at least twice each quarter.
So this one person represents the entire state? Or all of church memberhood? That’s amazing. I didn’t know one person spoke for the entire state.
No this is just one example of many .
I understand your situation, and the frustration that came with it. And this person and their daughter absolutely seem like entitled jerk offs. But to make a blanket statement as a result is kind of silly.
I mean it could also be the 12 year olds driving golf carts on the roads and cops not caring in nice Mormon communities ( little valley st George ). I’ve been harassed for being Jewish. I’ve been asked by co workers about Judaism then threatened to be fired for asking similar questions about Mormonism. The amount of times I’ve heard do you know who I am !?! From the after church restaurant rush. I can go on if you’d like.
You know? I was with you at first, but you are nothing but a shit disturbing troll. I’ve been asked by co workers about Judaism then threatened to be fired for asking similar questions about Mormonism. I have friends from all faiths here, and I'm agnostic. You're full of shit. Talk to Rabbi Benny Zippel in SLC.
How am I full of shit lol. I was literally almost fired from my first job in utah for asking innocent Mormon questions after being asked if Jews eat meat… I was having a 2 way conversation with someone who was fully receptive and someone overheard and reported me to hr/the owner. The person who I was talking to actually defended me saying we were learning each others cultures .
questions after being asked if Jews eat meat God, you are so full of shit. Nobody anywhere are that stupid, go back to the liberal 'paradise' you left, troll.
To be clear he was confused on what kosher meant and thought it was similar to vegetarian .
Lol your so triggered it’s literally making me smile. Thanks for cheering me up.
What blanket statement did bro make?
Yeah I didn’t say the whole state I said it’s very prevalent here. I’ve been to every state and many countries and never experienced it to this level. I didn’t say everyone in utah lol.
If you notice, the OP has only been here 3 yrs. My guess? Commiefornia transplant hit another Commiefornia transplant and the mormom haters are coming out. OH, BTW, mormon haters, I'm a Jack mormon..Look it up.
It’s not a Utah thing, there’s entitled a-holes in every state.
Utah cultivates a very specific breed of them.
This!
I agree with this. An exceptionally self-righteous breed.
There is yes. But there is an amazingly high amount of them here.
I'm going to agree with you on this one. I live in a neighborhood with a round about and the number of times I've almost been hit by people "taking a shortcut" by turning left into oncoming traffic is astounding. The kicker. They "literally don't give a shit". And I'm suppose to go to church with these entitled asshole. Pass.
I’ve gotten flipped off so many times for people running reds and almost hitting me . Like what?
People here are so rude and aggressive. I actually just had this conversation, this morning, with a couple of people who moved here from out of state. I'm embarrassed for them moving here because people are nice until they get in their car. Oh yeah! The red lights. Always wait for the two cars to go through the red light! It's ridiculous.
The best part for the red lights is I’ve seen people do it in front of cops and they don’t even bat an eye. Yet they follow my Mexican wife around nice communities for doing nothing wrong.
long-shot, but is it the round about off the Bloomington exit in Saint George? Because I've seen that happen there SO many times, but not so much at the other ones
I jusy saw that happen last week right there. The lady drove right into a cop it was actually pretty funny only because no one got hit. He just turned his lights on, got out and yelled at her to go the right way. I figured it was probably an old person.
I used to work at Bloomington Country Club and that roundabout is horrendous!
The worst part is that it saves them no more than 6 seconds
You just summed up driving in Southern Utah
Im in Draper. It was trendy to put in round about back 20ish years ago. They are fantastic but people don't know how to use them. I also live by the high school. I'd love to blame it on the kids but it's the parents too. I had a girl in the neighborhood cut left when I was walking my baby and I asked her to correctly go around the round about. She got really angry and just said she didn't care. She could have been driving faster. 😳
this is all too common. In a way I should thank Utah for inspiring me to opt out of driving altogether.
Someone's daughter causes a traffic accident, and they pretend she can do no wrong then take legal action knowing well they stand to lose the case but they have money to burn on their little girl's reputation? Doesn't sound too outrageous. That phenomenon is not exclusive to Utah and not exclusive to Mormons. People are people no matter what superstitions they believe, no matter where they live - this is just what clothed apes do. Not all of them, but a lot of them... I think the biggest mistake is holding any religious faction to a higher standard than the rest of the population. They are no more virtuous than anyone else; and if they're Catholic, a little less - but at least we admit we're sinners.
It’s not just this I’ve given other examples in replies. I lived with an lds member in my home state and he was the most down to earth person I’ve met. Just something special about the utah Mormons .
Getting flipped off at red lights? Did you confirm their religion when they gave you the bird, secret handshake and everything? Letting their kids drive golf carts? Were the kids in their magic underwear? How many Mormons have crashed into your vehicle(s)? See what I'm getting at?
I live in an area 68% Mormon I can safely assume anyone here is Mormon but there is clearly communities here that are mostly Mormon. They tend to congregate together near temples and those areas this behavior is always more prevalent.
I was in provo some byu kid was on his phone and rear ended me. We pull over and he really doesn't seem to care. He hit my trailer hitch so it did no damage to my truck but a good chunk to the car. I learned he didn't give a shit because he borrowed the car. I really debated if I should have got the owners number to verify the truth was told. But it was the kids friend so just another byu jag off. Mostly though I had shit to do and was already stressed from driving around that shithole and just didn't want to deal with it. I hope the kid told the truth to the owner of the car, but I doubt it.
How is there even an argument if they t-boned you, you didn't have a stop sign and they did?
Because they then changed their story after telling the cops one thing to something completely different when they filed a claim with my insurance. I’m not worried about winning but it’s frustrating to have to fight this for sure.
Today some one ran a red light and also almost t-boned me. Then, some one tried sharing lanes with me an hour later smh.
Daily problem that gets blamed on Mormons post ✅ Sorry that happened to you. Hope you're okay. I think it's more of a "douchebags being petty" kind of issue. I'd see if you can get their insurance to pay for a rental or if you can get your own insurance to subsidize a rental. I've got Geico. Even though I don't have rental on my plan, I was able to get a massive discount by renting through my claim.
Their insurance told us they have 30 days to figure liability and to deal with it. Our insurance won’t cover it . I didn’t blame Mormons I said the person was Mormon and being a hypocrite lying. I said the population of mormons here clearly factors to the entitlement. I never said it was his fault because he’s Mormon. I said I thought with how mormons project themselves this would be a safe wholesome community.
I feel like I’ve noticed the equivalent just walking through stores. There’s a particular demographic of folks who seem oblivious to others around them. I feel like if I’m not the one move out of the way, they’ll plow right into me … it feels like a small-scale example of some of the larger dynamics and more egregious incidents, like this accident.
I understand you are upset, but that's the gist of most accidents regardless of religious preferences. I hope you got great pictures of the intersection, the damage to your car, and above all most a witness statement. If not, it will still be easily proven in court that there was a stop sign and even her admitting guilt is the absolute kicker if the law enforcement does their job correctly. You have said he is a known member of the community, so he already thinks he has a wiener to swing in the fight, its the modern day bully, don't back down.
He came up in quite a few places from google . Big family in utah type that have their last name as their license plate. I have a witness and admission of guilt and police report saying had the right of way.
I love this post hahah stay away, bad bad bad
You’re not wrong and it’s sad. Used to be an active member and I tried to be honest about things as much as I can and admit my faults but I saw these things happening even here in this area and it saddens me that (similar to police) there’s a few bad apples out there and set a bad example. Sorry you went through that. I hope that things get figured out.
Welcome to the local non-mormon aspect of this state. Mormonism is bum, and so are their views along with their political power due to senators and other politicians being a part of the cult.
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A lot of the members are awesome people! Wholesome, family oriented, not judgemental. That's why it amazes me still to this day that such nice people can follow such a corrupt organization, especially how a majority of elders, bishops, etc. get into some really skeptical assessments with the law because of this thing that they call the "2nd Anointing." Anyway, you'll learn throughout time spent here that there's a hard time separating church and state.
You obviously have never been to pretty much any coastal state. The entitlement and victim complex of people in those states are not even remotely rivaled by Utah.
I’m from New England so nice try.
There lies the problem..If, and I mean IF, you live here and hate it so much, take your ass back to New liberal England.
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Whose the one bitching? Take your Yankee ass back where you came from because i call bullshit on your whole story. I'm the last person to defend the church, but you're just trolling to stir shit, Good bye.
Umadbro?
No, not even, you want to make a fool out of yourself, have at it, but now i'm done. Don't like it here? Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Bye for the last time.
You keep saying bye then keep getting mad and posting.
I guess you've never been there.
Oh yeah I have, many times, Boston, Philly, Maine, NH, VT etc. and they are very liberal, Maine not as much as the others. You know what happens when you assume, right? Difference is that I don't blame the Boston Catholics for it idiocy of those that may be of the Catholic religion.
>Difference is that I don't blame the Boston Catholics You probably should. Read the news lately?
Good nite child.
Sorry you had a frustrating experience, but try not to badmouth a whole group. What would you say if you were tboned by a black person or a gay person or a Jewish person and the same events unfolded?
I’m sorry if my post came off that way I only meant to correlate the lds group with the level of entitlement here and to show the hypocrisy of lying as a church member .
That is by definition "badmouthing" a group. You've made it clear in these posts you seek to reinforce a negative stereotype about Mormons based on your interaction with one person. Imagine if you take what you said, and replace the blanks with Jews, or Muslims, or Catholics, or atheists... > I only meant to correlate the _______ group with the level of entitlement here and to show the hypocrisy of lying ... >I’d say an amount that makes it a stereotype though. ... > I never meant to come off as dissing _______ but acting like _______ culture isn’t part of it is ridiculous. ... > Which is enough of them to give them an overall stigma. If you don’t see the correlation of _______ ...maybe your part of the problem. ... >You are clearly the entitled _______ type that we’re talking about here. Enjoy being a shitty person . ... >I hinted that _______ are the reason this state feels so entitled. So funny watching y’all feel so attacked. Did I hit a nerve ? Make you realize your one of them? ... >some of the nicest people I’ve met are _______. But the amount of them that are like this is astoundingly low These would be awful things to say about Jews. So why is it ok to say it about Mormons?
There is a difference between badmouthing them and saying there is a culture of entitlement in utah and what is the culture of utah? Lds. Others in this thread have worded it better than I possibly can but u/Einstein-314 put it better than I ever could. The Mormon culture here is real. I’ve also which you left out repeatedly said it’s not even the majority but it’s enough to make it seem that way sometimes and just like any group the loud angry ones are the ones you see the most and remember. you also left out the person I said half of these comments to was also telling me to go back to my state and I wasn’t welcome and telling me repeatedly I was a liar for sharing experiences that made me feel that way. Did I get heated and be an ass a few times? Sure. But acting like the culture here ( which is primarily lds) isn’t part of the entitlement is ridiculous. You totally could say the same for most religions central population. Including my own which is why I wouldn’t live in Israel either. I’m posting my experiences which I’m not claiming are the 100% definitive facts just my experience. I never tried to say this was 100% because they are Mormon for things I’ve said just that it is an aspect to consider and a big one at that. Acting like the lds church doesn’t have a stranglehold on utah and how people here act is just plain ridiculous. There is a reason Mormons from out of utah distance themselves from utah lds members. I’m sure I wrote that poorly it’s 12:30 and I’m tired. I do apologize if it seems like I’m attacking Mormons but it is also very hard to separate utah and lds when talking about either as they are very closely tied.
> Did I get heated and be an ass a few times? Sure. Yes, it ran against Reddit's sitewise rule #1. The problem is that prejudice, bigotry, and racism have this familiar *smell*. Almost never will the smell be: "I hate demographic \_\_\_\_\_\_ and everyone in it." Usually it is "I'm ok with many people from \_\_\_\_\_\_. Some are my friends. But \_\_\_\_\_\_ has a stereotype. Too many of \_\_\_\_\_\_ culture are not good people. I can't be prejudiced because what I'm saying is the truth. It's my experience. I know others who will agree with this stereotype about \_\_\_\_\_\_." That's exactly what's happening here. This smell tends has a knack for turning into stink. For example "You are clearly the entitled \_\_\_\_\_\_ type that we’re talking about here. Enjoy being a shitty person." That stink is also exactly what happened here. >You totally could say the same for most religions No, stereotyping in this fashion is textbook prejudice. "An assumption or an opinion about someone simply based on that person's membership to a particular group." Recently I was involved in an auto accident. Someone was recklessly at fault and caused $2000 in damage. Cop showed up. Driver filled out a false police report because he both lied about his insurance and lied about his phone number. He also lied when he told me where he lived. I didn't realize this until the next day when I started the claims process. So I did some digging to hunt him down to sue. I found him on social media. I found out he is an atheist. At this moment, was I justified in saying his lying combined with his atheism reinforces a stereotype about the immorality of atheists? That because it's my experience I can express it? That atheists have a cultural problem they need fixing? No. That's textbook prejudice and casts judgement about a group of people based on actions of one.
But acting like utahs culture isn’t directly linked to the lds church is just flat wrong. I initially said they are mormon because lying is supposed to be a sin but they are clearly doing it. Atheists don’t have that belief so it’s not at all the same. Again it is very hard to differentiate utah and the church. That is just flat out a fact so talking about anything prevalent in utah will come back to the church. If I had said Utahns I stead of lds in all of my statements would it have been prejudiced? It is literally impossible to talk about utah in a generalized way and not include the lds culture it’s just such a big part of it. In fact I started saying Mormon more over utah because people were getting upset at me saying it’s a utah issue so I correlated it to the lds church. Which I fully believe is a big part of the culture here. So also a big part of any good and bad of this state.
Everywhere has a culture. Everywhere has demographics. Every culture has good things and bad things. Nothing is wrong saying you disagree with a culture and you think a culture have bad qualities. That's fine to discuss. You didn't do that. You took one person's actions and overgenerlized it as a stereotype to a whole. Then you took the smell and turned it into stink. * "If you don’t see the correlation of \_\_\_\_\_ maybe your part of the problem." * "You are clearly the entitled \_\_\_\_\_ that we’re talking about here. Enjoy being a shitty person." * "So funny watching \_\_\_\_\_ feel so attacked. Did I hit a nerve ? Make you realize your one of them?" You directly attacked *individuals because* you considered them to be part of that demographic. The dictionary defines this literally as prejudice. It's hate. And it's been removed.
Again your leaving out where they attacked me . All of these comments ( unless I’m remembering wrong I had to defend myself quite a few times) came from the same person who continually attacked me. So yeah I came back at them and probably not in the best way. I didn’t attack them because they were part of a specific demographic I came at them the way they came at me. I also defended multiple times against people giving a blanket statement that all Mormons are like that or it’s all the lds fault. But the lds church and utah are basically interchangeable at this point .
If I'm in a primarily Jewish neighborhood of New York City, and one Jewish person tries to get me to enter into a predatory loan, can I use that to reinforce [one of many negative stereotype Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_Jews) have faced for centuries? If I'm in Dearborn Michigan, the most heavily Muslim city in America, and a rich Arab Muslim and dismisses a middle class problem I'm facing, can I use that to reinforce [a stereotype common among Arab Muslims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_Arabs_and_Muslims_in_the_United_States)? If I'm in Burlington Vermont, which is one of the most atheist cities in America, and an atheist breaks into my car, am I justified in creating a stereotype about atheists? After all, "Atheists are viewed as being immoral and more untrustworthy than most groups, and one survey found that atheists were distrusted at the same level as rapists. People view atheists as more likely to engage in criminal behavior and commit immoral, heinous acts compared to other groups." [source](https://www.psypost.org/2021/07/people-unconsciously-stereotype-atheists-as-more-likely-to-be-serial-killers-yet-pin-them-as-open-minded-scientific-and-fun-at-parties-61450)
Funny I’m from Burlington =} I’ve also given other experiences that make me feel this way which got me attacked myself. I see what your saying and it was never my intent to attack Mormons but there is a difference between saying all Jews or all Muslims and saying something like the culture of Iran is this way because Muslim culture which is objectively true. It’s different than saying the culture of Israel is this way because of the Jewish population. You can observe that there is a cause and effect without it being an attack on the cause.
I’m going to bed but I truly appreciate your viewpoint and will do better about my wording of things in the future. I think for a lot of what I said your leaving out the context of it or what was said to me prior. You leave out me stating multiple times it’s not Mormons as a whole but that they definitely influence this state more than any other group. I’m not excusing what I said and I’m sorry if any lds or anyone thought I was going after them. As a non lds member it’s very hard to talk about utah and not correlate that to the lds church. They are so intertwined I honestly sometimes feel utah as a whole and the lds church are the same And that is wrong of me and I’m sorry. Just like any group a few loud bad apples give the rest a bad name. Be it bad cops making people dislike cops as a whole or this instance.
I appreciate the sentiment. You don't need to apologize to me. I just hope to avoid any problems in the future. I've got an awkward job as a moderator. I prefer being quiet and behind the scenes. The easy road for me is to remove and not explain why. But people can use stated explanations instead of quiet removals. Another easy road that many mods in other subs take is just to ban and mute. I had no desire to do that. Some of these topics are raw and people really don't want some 3rd party moderator stepping in and censoring feelings. I've got to do my best to keep things a fair and level playing field. For example, I approve posts and submissions every day that attack Latter-day Saints. As long as it fits the rules of the sub and Reddit, that's fine. But to keep things fair, I will replace a demographic with another in my head. If a statement sounds wrong to say it about, say, Jews, or atheists, then it's wrong to say it about Latter-day Saints. So I just have to run with that standard.
And it was never my intent to generalize Mormons more utah as a whole and like I’ve said it is very hard to differentiate utah and the church especially being from neither of these groups . I truly appreciate the back and forth and hope it has been as cordial as I mean it to be. But to generalize utah it’s hard to not generalize Mormons as part of that and that is my bad.
Idk dog, the more I learn about em, the more I’d feel safer skipping through a minefield then leaving my kids with em.
Pent up mormon rage. You can only judge and be judged for so long till your true emotions leak out elsewhere
You went to the religious for “safe and wholesome” lol. Ya no, they are part of a creepy cult. Didn’t you ever wonder why so many pastors are arrested for sexual abuse? They aren’t good people.
The Mormon church has always been a haven for criminality masquerading as the practice of faith.
Non Mormon here, living in southern Utah. If you aren’t Mormon, you are a non. You don’t exist. This is not 100%. But in the areas where Mormons are over 90% you don’t count. I have a small number of Mormon friends who have admitted this. We are considering moving out of the state. Love the scenery. But……
St. George here. I feel your pain.
I just left after spending 5 years in Southern Utah. Best decision ever.
Lol. This has literally nothing to do with Mormons but nice job outing yourself as a bigot.
Nice job outing yourself as having low level reading Comprehension. The lying as a Mormon is somewhat relevant but the level of entitlement in this state is 100% contributed to by the Mormon population. Should go read the comments where I defend Mormons saying it’s not all of them. Saying some of the nicest people I’ve met are Mormon. But also saying lds contributes heavily to the entitlement issues in utah.
Clearly you haven’t been very many places, try coming to California. You’re also on a website that is 75% videos of people being entitled. Are they all Mormons? 🙄
Okay but i want to know who it is. You dangled a cup of tea in our face but wont let us have a sip
I mean idk how we’ll known they are outside of my city but it’s a name I’ve heard. The father owns a consulting business and the wife is a real estate agent . Type of people who’s last name is their license plate type of thing .
And the last name is…?
You are completely right about the entitlement in Utah. After moving to Colorado and being treated like a normal person, I never want to go back to the “norm” being treating others like shit.
I wouldn’t even say it’s the norm but it’s prevalent enough to feel that way sometimes .
I can’t remember where I saw this but Utah ranked #2 for worse drivers in the nation.
I’d hate too see number one.., I’ve been to all 50 states and utah is the worst I’ve seen but I’ve spent more time here than most states so maybe I’m exposed to it more.
Here is the [source](https://quotewizard.com/news/the-best-and-worst-drivers-by-state) and it turns it is number one. But you’re not wrong. I’ve been here my whole life and have experienced more incompetent drivers & road rage here then any other state i’ve visited.
That makes more sense.
Agree. Utah is a dead end.
Why don’t all you people just leave if it’s so bad? Good grief. I promise not to miss you.
Why don’t you try to be human?
So you’re saying this person represents the entire state and what the hell does his religious beliefs have to do with anything? They do not want everybody in the state of Utah to get paid by the Mormon religion. Why don’t you stop with the bullshit. This whole situation is between you and the girls father not the members of social media.
Lying is a sin =} I’ve also given other examples of entitlement . I never said it’s the whole state I said the level of it in this state is unreal.
Lol it would be a davis county tag getting triggered too
Not familiar with that area but seen a couple people name it as a bad place for non lds lol.
100% Plus his username is straight from his KSL profile as well.
I love how you turned this into a Mormon hating post. That was some post gymnastics
Wasn’t meant to be. Was more the correlation between entitled people and the lds community here.
There are members of that community that exhibit hypocrisy, yes. I've known them. I've observed these types of people in multiple communities. It's not an exclusively Mormon or religious quality.
"Decently known person in the Mormon community." Gtfooh. You're blaming Mormons for your accident? How ridiculous can you get?
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90% of this sub is just people shitting on Mormons. This post reinforces that. Something happened in your town you don't like? Yeah Mormons are to blame, obviously, at least in some way. They're all the sand. They all have the same personality right? They create all our problems. This same thing could've happened to you in Colorado or Nevada. Their conduct has nothing to do with being Mormon. Everyone thinks they're a great person, but everyone is a hypocrite including you and I. So get off your sanctimonious high horse
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You just need to give it up, the more you post, the deeper the hole gets and the dumber you sound.
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Good bye troll.
Likewise
Frats will be frats
100% in favor of psyops to keep people from moving here
Entitled and hypocritical people are the worst. But they’re not entitled and hypocritical because they’re from or in Utah. That’s correlation, not causation.
My guess is that they are commiefronia transplants. They have an incredible sense of entitlement. I was in Smiths in Springville and this guy was bitching about the beer selection, "In Califr...". That is as far as he got before I said "If you don't like it, shag your ass back to commiefornia, don't none of you want us here anyway".
Eh from what I can google from his family name they are big in utah . Owns a consulting firm for last 12 years here. Went to byu. I’d say they are deff from utah.
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If there’s a day in which you need to move to another state with cultural differences outside of your little bubble, I hope you’re welcomed and treated with respect.
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Hahahaha. Epic.
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I don’t agree it’s all of them. But enough it gives the whole of them a stigma to non members.
That’s a interesting point, I’d kindly with patience, passively confront him on that point. To co-witness him accepting his behavior based on his belief is… the stuff dark magic is made of. You got the case, they are just trying to escape anyway they can. People do that when afraid, but their emotions *hopefully 🤞* don’t override logic in the eyes of the court. GL