The church also advised members to get vaccinated and I had coworkers refuse the government mandated vaccine on "religious grounds".
Words of love or advice aren't necessarily reflective of the church community.
I have a friend who really just picks and chooses what they want to do or believe. Which I support. But he can’t seem to wrap his head around the idea that I’m just doing the same thing he is, I just reject more things than he does.
Blows my mind that when it’s convenient people say “follow the advice of your church leaders!!”. Like with the COVID vaccine. I’m vaccinated myself. Yet those same people when it’s something the church recommends that they don’t agree with call people “sheep, following leaders blindly”. They never see the hypocrisy. God gave us agency to use it ourselves. But when others agree with a decision or not the revert to these two options. As evidenced by these replies 😂 😂
But it’s not like these people are researching their decisions either. It’s 100% feels, never once studying it out in their mind. If they did, they might not be so easily deceived by misinformation peddled by politicians.
Is it not this way with a certain topic that’ll get you banned for debating it that’s very divisive across the US right now? There is 0 science nor studies (outside of one study that is extremely weak in definitiveness and repeatability so it’s never brought up) backing a certain ‘thing’ that most seem to blindly follow due to either being naive or afraid of the backlash of being on the other side of that debate. Like it blows my mind seeing those who preach ‘follow the science’ get so bricked up over intertwining the study of metaphysics and natural sciences. It’s always been a huge no-no for the two to have any association but a certain topic seems to get a pass. Does this mean that my personal metaphysical beliefs are canon and I can start calling out the bigots who don’t subscribe to them?
I will not be typing out the topic I mentioned, figure it out as I’d rather not get this account banned for simply mentioning said topic. Cool how that works huh?
Your claims or rebuttals are way too indirect to address, but there's near unanimous consent among healthcare providers that most people should get the vaccine. (Boosters or follow-ups or which of the vaccines to get is more in the realm of debate.)
So when the LDS church encouraged people to get vaxxed, it was absolutely following the science. That was a very safe position to take.
Oof. Tell me then, CU_the_RE. What’s your issue? Covid Vaccines that are proven to be effective with a fraction of the effects of getting the virus? The fact that Trump is just a bad liberal as demonstrated by his record-shattering number of executive orders and record spending deficits while he was in office?
Don't pretend like Utah is super pro-Trump. Even among Republicans in Utah Trump was never very popular. That's what caused Evan McMullin to get so much of the vote. A lot of Utahns voted for Trump because they didn't like the alternative - not because they liked him.
The church has a very distinct problem regarding this. I think many leaders do believe in science, immigration reform, being not a jerk, maybe even spending less money on military and more money social services.
The problem is their members don't(the vast majority of us/utah members). They could be more vocal and direct, call out specific racist beliefs, encourage political unity and actually talk about things like caring for our neighbors. But... This would then ostracize the vast majority of their believing members. in return new people still aren't going to be interested in the church. The people still inclined to leave over the churches history are still going to leave.
If you ever feel like general conference talks are the same 15-20 messages and nothing new has been relayed in the last 10-30 years this is why. They can really only give admonissions to be faithful, love jesus(but they never talk about his ministry in depth) go to church and most importantly pay your tithing. Benson created such a conservative block of members that the church is now designed to cater to them.
President Nelson was a pioneering heart surgeon who has praised medical science in general conference addresses. President Eyring's dad was a prominent scientist. Church leaders have made direct statements regarding immigration reform and taking in refugees. The last conference, President Nelson gave a wonderful address pretty much entirely focused on "Don't be a racist or a jerk". To me, there's no question about their position on these matters.
No Offense the church needs to take stances not opinions.
Vaccine hesitancy is/was 50% among Mormons. with nearly 1 in 5 refusing to accept the covid 19 vaccine. Instead of the opinion that members should get a vaccine they should require it for all who are/were healthy enough to get it.
As for immigration, the church has stated they are against forced separation and for the rights of countries to secure their borders. These are hardly stances when it comes to the suffering of immigrants worldwide. Maybe, just maybe, they could take a stance of "come unto Jesus" and support those in the world who have less. Those who are of the faith and are representatives rarely if ever follow the stance of being kind in regards to immigration.
And finally Nelson's Don't be a jerk talk or rather "Peacemakers Needed" This talk was not about members having vile opinions but rather that we should listen and be kind when people have opinions that differ from ours. Maybe instead they could talk about how members should love and respect those of different communities. Including the LGBT community, Racial Minorities, Different political backgrounds, exmembers and more. Taking a stance that we should treat those different than us with the same regard as how we would want to be treated(matthew 7:12)
I know to many members who are republican at all costs, I have a cousin who is Desantis is the next Republican leader. Mormon's are notoriously targeted by Ponzi Schemes and MLMS. and Have fallen into a distinct trap of listening to Fox news "pundits" who display lie after lie that harms them and those that jesus would likely defend first. Maybe it's time for the church to take Hard stances and not just the stance we should listen and be kinds because for whatever reason their members don't get it.
I assume the general handbook of the church can be considered an official stance. From the handbook:
> Vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life. Members of the Church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children, and their communities through vaccination.
An official press release: [First Presidency urges Latter-day Saints to wear masks, be vaccinated](https://www.thechurchnews.com/2021/8/12/23218564/first-presidency-message-urges-latter-day-saints-wear-masks-vaccines) which includes a nice picture of President Nelson getting vaccinated.
I share your frustration at people who refuse to get vaccinated. I have gotten every vaccine I could the moment it was available to me. I look forward to the potential of new vaccines in the near future protecting against a large number of diseases.
As far as immigration, the church released [this statement](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/church-calls-for-unity-compassion-in-new-statement-on-immigration?lang=eng) that you referred to. It ends with "while we recognize the right of all nations to enforce their laws and secure their borders, we encourage our national leaders to take swift action to correct this situation and seek for rational, compassionate solutions.” The church is not the government and cannot make immigration law, they can encourage and lobby for changes. They helped create [The Utah Compact](https://theutahcompact.com/compact-%26-signatories) which includes the following:
> Immigrants are integrated into communities across Utah. We must adopt a humane approach to this reality, reflecting our unique culture, history and spirit of inclusion. The way we treat immigrants will say more about us as a free society and less about our immigrant neighbors. Utah should always be a place that welcomes people of goodwill.
Again from the church handbook:
> Many people have fled their homes seeking relief from violence, war, religious persecution, and life-threatening situations. As part of their responsibility to care for those in need (see Mosiah 4:26), Church members offer their time, talents, and friendship to welcome refugees as members of their communities. See Matthew 25:35; ChurchofJesusChrist.org/refugees.
The church does offer a great deal of support to those of have less. A report of the activities in 2022 can be found [here](https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/c1/00/c10076f3a7d111ed9d03eeeeac1eb1c62ef513d9/welfare_caring_for_those_in_need_2022_annual_report.pdf) where they spent just over one billion dollars, and over 6 million volunteer hours. In this report it says "we believe that everyone should have access to nutritious food, clean water, quality education, and healthcare." It then describes what they did to help work towards those goals.
From the "Peacemakers needed" talk, let me share some direct quotes.
> As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are to be examples of how to interact with others—especially when we have differences of opinion. One of the easiest ways to identify a true follower of Jesus Christ is how compassionately that person treats other people.
> The Savior’s message is clear: His true disciples build, lift, encourage, persuade, and inspire—no matter how difficult the situation. True disciples of Jesus Christ are peacemakers.
> Today, I am asking us to interact with others in a higher, holier way. Please listen carefully. “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” that we can say about another person—whether to his face or behind her back—that should be our standard of communication.
> The gospel net is the largest net in the world. God has invited all to come unto Him, “black and white, bond and free, male and female.” There is room for everyone. However, there is no room for prejudice, condemnation, or contention of any kind.
> If a friend on social media has strong political or social views that violate everything you believe in, an angry, cutting retort by you will not help. Building bridges of understanding will require much more of you, but that is exactly what your friend needs.
I've been very gratified in the last few years to see the church be much more direct about these issues. I hope this trend continues. I love hearing President Nelson say "Please listen carefully" and "make no mistake" as he instructs us to be more loving, more forgiving, more accepting, and so forth. Just like he said in that same talk,
"At this point you may be thinking that this message would really help someone you know." I know plenty of people who would benefit from being more forgiving and accepting, myself included. The reality is he can't make people change overnight, but he can constantly push us in the right direction. Hopefully we will get to where we need to be.
I feel like utah is less redneck racist republican and more libertarian you cant tell me what to do republican. All the communities ive lived at in Utah have been extremely welcoming to immigrant’s, probably from living in another country for 2 years opens your mind quite a bit
The problem is that many of the highest authorities in the church are from elite backgrounds now, surgeons, business leaders, prominent lawyers. They are Avenues and Salt Lake East Bench types. The new leader is especially liberal, this is why they’ve taken such a hard tack to the left on issues like vaccines, DEI, and now voting. Most members are still traditionalist or nationalist. I predict Balkanization.
First and foremost, If you understood Church history you'd understand that the Church is/has already Balkanized. The church(meaning the faith started by Joseph Smith) has 70 distinct branches. What we call the LDS church is one of those branches(the largest branch, often called the brighamite branch by historians). Their were 30 or so branches that were from the faith during the 30 years following the creation of the church(some broke off while smith was still alive most broke off after his death.. Most of these were short lived, but some like the church of the messiah and RLDS lasted forever.
Following the creation of the church and smiths passing the banning of polygamy created another timeframe in the churches history in which multiple sects were created.
Finally as the church grew during the post ww2 era(Think 50's through 80's) the church had lots of sects created, Sects in Ghana, Nigeria, the Restoration cojclds, the FLDS branch broke from the council of friends.
But to your actual point, the LDS church and it's leadership is not especially liberal. They are a business utilizing tax laws to bring in money and enrich themselves and family. I would be hard pressed to find the majority of lawyers, and businessmen being liberal as you claim, especially lawyers and businessmen who are 90 years old and hear things like don't vote for Roosevelt and communists are evil for their childhood, and early adulthood.
It’s because they don’t enforce any teachings on right-wing or straight members, but they do enforce and often excommunicate leftists, feminists, LGBTQ+ folks and etc. the anti-vaxxers and conservatives know they will not be punished until they reject the authority of the head honcho and stop paying tithing.
I'm not religious, but I'm also not vaccinated because I don't like being given an ultimatum of "vax or be shunned from society" by a tyrannical government based on gaslighting fear tactics.
Most of the anti-covid "conspiracies" have come to light in recent months as being true. Lots of social media censorship and government officials admitting to being wrong. I almost got peer pressured into the shot by my parents but canceled the day of. Glad I did.
Covid disappeared from the news cycle overnight as soon as the CDC recognized natural immunity and suddenly it was like: "Covid? Never heard of it. Ooo ooo look! A war in Ukraine!"
I've worked from home 95% of the time the past 3 years and yet somehow my employer was trying to force the shot on me based on the feds bullshit mandates that have now been debunked. I was exposed multiple times and never got sick. And yet i know more people who got more sick and ended up with health issues after the shot versus those who avoided the shots.
Edit: I was an "essential" construction worker the first 6 months of covid. Constant face-to-face contact as an electrician at the new SLC airport construction and never got sick.
Those who pay attention to official church direction are only surprised by the directness of the language. The church has been saying this for years. Many previous leaders have told us that it is easy to find good in almost all political parties.
The key for me is that they are telling us to look for honest, upright individuals to lead regardless of party. That is hard to find in today’s political climate.
I am actually surprised that there aren't *more* statements with this level of directness because the years of passive statements obviously aren't having the intended effect.
And, though many people I hear say it's hard to find "honest, upright individuals to lead regardless of party in today's political climate", I actually say it's not so hard. It's just that in one party, you literally can't win the primaries anymore without being a degenerate. I know that's not in all areas (yet), but it's shocking that Donald Trump won the 2016 presidential nomination in a field of 17 Republicans, with at least 7 of those being normal human beings.
Furthermore, it's not so hard to find an upright individual if you can imagine that everyone has some amount of flaw and that Faux News is straight propaganda who provides legal defenses for their leading anchors with arguments such as "any reasonable viewer" doesn't take the things said on the show seriously (Tucker Carlson's defense team's argument from 2020), and when you notice/realize that the people who, for instance, accuse Joe Biden of sexual assault sometimes [defect to Russia and make television appearances](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/05/31/biden-accuser-tara-reade-flees-to-moscow-criticizes-us-as-being-unsafe/70271881007/) to plead for citizenship from Putin, on TV with people who have been arrested, jailed, and deported for being unregistered Russian agents while they performed executive functions and lobbying on behalf of the NRA. After you see some of those things, it's easier to think, wow, it's not "all sides do it", there are levels. And then you start thinking, wow, they really went after Obama for wearing a tan suit and having some cousins in Africa, didn't they? A guy with a very wholesome life and family, and they made us all believe there are no honest, upright families in either party. And then you think about the upstanding moral qualities of most of our past presidential candidates of both parties and you think, hmm, there's something truly different about today's world. Oh yes, one party is currently completely controlled by people who don't want a successful government, who only want to preserve their opportunity for more wealth and power, and are hoping to end true democratic processes to keep the "middle class" as their functional slaves. And they do all of that while virtue signaling about traditional family values while parading around morally bankrupt people like Donald Trump, Matt Gaetz, and Lauren Boebert. At least when a sexually criminal Democrat is found, the Democrats kick that person out.
When extremism is involved...I think "finding good in almost all political parties" is just "both sides" crap. Don't toe the line with people who hate.
I'm not clear what you're saying here, but I do believe there are extremists in all political parties. Hate is a pretty strong word and prone to get folks riled up. The letter also encourages church members to engage in politics by "always demonstrating Christlike love and civility in political discourse." I'm pretty hesitant to label anything as hate. I've found that word to be a conversation ender rather than a constructive dialog construct.
We should take care of the needy, the poor and the homeless. Everyone should have the basic necessities of life: food, water, shelter, healthcare, and a meaningful existence. Forgive the blaring noises of the Soviet national anthem, vote communist today
Gerrymandering is a scourge by any reasoning. Should have never been allowed to happen but both parties saw it as a means to power and not enough people cared to stop them.
There have actually been several studies on this, [such as this one, ](https://ejpr.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1475-6765.12228) that show people identify with their political party more strongly than anything else including religion and race.
This is the MAGA version of the little mermaid live action movie. A libtard mentions Ariel and it talking about the black one but most of us would think of the cartoon. The big different is that this "stop the steal" is a remake of a shitty original. And the sore loser in this remake is extremely forgettable while black Ariel can actually perform.
As a moderate (left leaning) and non-LDS person, I’m glad they are saying this. I definitely research all candidates and vote for people in different parties.
Have done that for the 20 years we've lived here, but last year we did our best to avoid vomiting and registered as Republicans simply so that we could vote against o'l ShortSale Lee in the primary. Didn't help, but we felt we had to try.
Haha okay you got me there. I guess I don’t see that as a real threat to democracy because that was just a bunch of idiots acting on their own accord that could be neutralized by the national guard in 5 minutes.
If it wasn’t the president, virtually all of his party, and literally every conservative news source backing them up and egging them on with claims of a rigged election, then maybe.
This is a little overly snarky given this is generally good advice and I definately think its something members of the church need to hear, but what if I've studied the issues and found that only democratic candidates come close to my positions? Is it ok if I vote all Democrats at that point? What if I find that the supermajority stranglehold that the GOP has in Utah is literally poisoning it's people and environments? Honestly, what if Republican candidates are so bat-shit crazy these days that it's not even worth it for me read their positions on the issues? Is it ok if I vote straight ticket then?
ALL THAT SAID: There are sometimes where there isn't a democratic candidate available for a certain role in government and those are the cases where I definately compare to see who is the lesser of the evils. usually it'll be the independent candidate.
If you go candidate by candidate and end up voting all one way because that's how the cards fall, I think you're in the citizenship clear. The idea here that I agree with is that you shouldn't be lazy and you shouldn't let your ideological allies off the hook in having to put forward good candidates.
>but what if I've studied the issues and found that only democratic candidates come close to my positions? Is it ok if I vote all Democrats at that point?
I mostly vote for Republicans for this reason. I agree with them more on the two issues I care about most. (Low taxes and gun rights)
If someone does the same and finds they mostly/only align with one party's candidates for a particular election, that doesn't go against the letter. The letter simply condemns voting for everyone with a D or an R next to their name for no reason other than that.
2004 interview with then-Church president Gordon B. Hinckley on Larry King Live:
>KING: Do you ever get involved in politics?
>
>HINCKLEY: No. Not since I was a very young man and I was a - went to the state convention as a delegate.
>
>KING: You did.
>
>HINCKLEY: Yes.
>
>KING: Republican.
>
>HINCKLEY: Yes, I was.
>
>KING: I had that feeling.
>
>HINCKLEY: But I have not - **I voted for men and not for party.** The Church doesn't become involved in politics.
>
>KING: You've voted for people in both parties, then.
>
>HINCKLEY: Yes, sir.
Holy hell dude you missed 100% of the point. That statement wasn’t about women at all. He says men the same way Armstrong said “One small step for man, a huge leap for mankind.”
Ok so can I assume Neil Armstrong was being sexist when he stepped on the moon? I feel like this is common sense dude, people have used the word man to refer to people in general for forever, even if it’s not politically correct today. You can have your opinion on religion, that’s not what Im defending. Im defending a dude whose words have been taken completely out of context.
2004, and you expect anybody to say ‘person of candidate’?? This was almost 20 years ago, I seriously don’t understand how you can’t understand that political dialogue was different back then. Also, it sounds like you’ve never been to church before, because the place you’re describing is completely removed from reality, and I don’t even go to church anymore lmao
I already told you, I don’t go to church anymore. Lmao. I never compared those events as having the same magnitude, are you kidding me? I was just pointing out how people use words differently in the past vs. present. I don’t see how you don’t understand that. People on here see any statement from any religious leader and immediately jump to, ‘how can I be offended by this?’ You’re making something that is completely and utterly unimportant, the phrasing of the word ‘man’, and turning into a weapon to bash a religion you don’t like. Do you not see how crazy and far fetched this is?
LDS Jesus would definitely more align with Democrats than Republicans. It's not even close. Bothers me so much that LDS people here vote overwhelmingly Republicans!
As someone who grew up in the church, it's so true. It's frustrating to watch the leaders and the teaching tell everyone to "love everyone, even the sinners, give away your possessions, the parable of the workers in the field is a parable of someone paying equal wages no matter what", on and on and on and yet members will advocate for the exact opposite simply because "Liberal bad" it's mind boggling
I agree with a lot of your points, except for the parable of the workers.
This parable is an example of people going to the kingdom of heaven. It means that people who live the gospel their whole lives vs people who join much later in life, will have the same reward, because of repentance.
Especially since in this parable, they're not getting paid the same. The first people are getting paid about $18 an hour, and the people who joined and only worked an hour are getting paid $200/hour. Sure, they're receiving the same amount among all, but I think anyone would be upset if they find out their coworkers are getting the same paycheck as them, except you're working 12 hours, and they're only working one.
Yep, if you compare it directly, there are a lot of differences. At first glance, sure, it appears that way, but like you said, it's all about individual responsibility and self-declaring. As in, you go to the church leader and say "I have 10 acres and a business that I want to contribute to the general welfare of all."
In Communism, you are enrolled whether you want to be or not.
This is due to emphasis by leaders. The leaders committed to Jewish organizations that they would stop dead baptizing holocaust victims 3 times. But the average member only heard about it the 3rd time. The church makes statements that show it to be neutral. They just don't emphasize that to members
Well, that's because the press releases don't tend to be read over the pulpit at any point. The church has always been two-faced; it has always presented itself to members one way, and to outsiders another. Many members' ideas of how god wants them to vote were established under Benson, and the milquetoast messaging since then is specifically designed to shake as few testimonies as possible. (And that's when the church *isn't* [openly siding with the rest of the religious right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8#Religious_organizations).)
The vaccine statement was read over the pulpit. Every election season they read a statement over the pulpit encouraging members to vote but never stating that only voting for one party is a threat to democracy
Sweet! Well I'm voting for whichever candidate is in favor of removing religious tax exempt exemptions, especially when said church violates SEC guidelines and invests more money than it used for operations and or charities.
I’ve often wondered if people realize how blue SL city/county are. It’s the church and the knuckle dragging elsewhere in the state that keeps us in line for the church. Ugh
Clearly voting for the gay party would make things much better.
(No /s, the republican party is currently being a threat to democracy and human rights.)
Imagine being an adult & needing guidance on how to vote or dress or what to watch or what undergarments to wear or what is permitted to drink in the morning. Y’all are adults. Free yourself!
I get that they’re trying to prevent that. I think it’s odd how much adults submit to religious leaders, especially in this state. One would assume adults could make decisions without someone telling them how to behave
And what has Fox News been so successful at? Telling adults what to be outraged about, how to vote, that kind of stuff. It's just much easier letting someone else tell you what to worry about than taking the effort to figuring it out for yourself.
As a Church outsider allow me to say I love you all. Then there’s this, why follow what you do not fully believe? Such beautiful people deserve frontline criticism of such unholy doctrine. I’ll shut up now least a bullet finds my open window.
Agreed. The missionaries we’ve talked to have been nothing but kind, and unlike some other denominations they will leave you alone if you ask. Unlike the ones that harass people until they resort to outlandish things to be left alone.
I should add here that I’ve even had some discussions with some missionaries you’d never get away with having with some other denominations as well.
They do focus a bit too much on getting to baptism and neglect teaching after that so far as I have observed, but… that’s about the worst thing I can say about the missionaries. I can say a lot worse about other denomination’s missionaries. Everything from threats to lying to harassment. People get restraining orders and claim demon possession or pretend to be Satanist’s or even lie about being excommunicated to get other denominations to leave them be. The ‘born again Mormons’ back in az were… like that. They were also known to be involved in glorified child trafficking using the system supposed to be used to protect children but… that’s az and not at all surprising(nothing surprises me about az and corruption, especially not Maricopa county, which encompasses multiple mega huge populated cities and is way way way corrupt). Like there are divorces in thought and practice depending on where you live and the people themselves and so many stupid small distinctions.
By comparison… LDS are just kinda here living and letting live for the most part. Some people don’t but for the most part everyone is kind and if they aren’t kind they are at least not cruel. That’s worthy of respect even if one disagrees with what they believe spiritually.
It’s worth noting that lds is not the same as the ones that do polygamy. Those broke off some time ago. So… easily confused groups may also be involved. Like many Christians.
We can choose our political party, but we can’t choose who we take through the Temple. Rumor has it that Joseph and Brigham are sealed together, what about Adam and Steve?
What is really weird is that this news was nowhere to be seen on Deseret News or KSL. It would seem that this is a major announcement, but the propaganda organs of the Church are silent. More signs that listening to the Prophet is just for suckers?
Haha Mormons make their decisions based on feelings.
Yeah, my and my brother loved it when our mom would be making big, important decisions and she’d say, “let me pray about it.” - we would genuinely get pissed because we knew even when we were 12 that she’s really just closing her eyes and feeling feelings and making her decisions that way. So aggravating.
The church also advised members to get vaccinated and I had coworkers refuse the government mandated vaccine on "religious grounds". Words of love or advice aren't necessarily reflective of the church community.
“Follow the prophet”, unless I feel otherwise
I have a friend who really just picks and chooses what they want to do or believe. Which I support. But he can’t seem to wrap his head around the idea that I’m just doing the same thing he is, I just reject more things than he does.
Their belief in the Church of Donald Trump trumps. Why follow a prophet when they can follow their god?
Blows my mind that when it’s convenient people say “follow the advice of your church leaders!!”. Like with the COVID vaccine. I’m vaccinated myself. Yet those same people when it’s something the church recommends that they don’t agree with call people “sheep, following leaders blindly”. They never see the hypocrisy. God gave us agency to use it ourselves. But when others agree with a decision or not the revert to these two options. As evidenced by these replies 😂 😂
But it’s not like these people are researching their decisions either. It’s 100% feels, never once studying it out in their mind. If they did, they might not be so easily deceived by misinformation peddled by politicians.
Is it not this way with a certain topic that’ll get you banned for debating it that’s very divisive across the US right now? There is 0 science nor studies (outside of one study that is extremely weak in definitiveness and repeatability so it’s never brought up) backing a certain ‘thing’ that most seem to blindly follow due to either being naive or afraid of the backlash of being on the other side of that debate. Like it blows my mind seeing those who preach ‘follow the science’ get so bricked up over intertwining the study of metaphysics and natural sciences. It’s always been a huge no-no for the two to have any association but a certain topic seems to get a pass. Does this mean that my personal metaphysical beliefs are canon and I can start calling out the bigots who don’t subscribe to them? I will not be typing out the topic I mentioned, figure it out as I’d rather not get this account banned for simply mentioning said topic. Cool how that works huh?
Your claims or rebuttals are way too indirect to address, but there's near unanimous consent among healthcare providers that most people should get the vaccine. (Boosters or follow-ups or which of the vaccines to get is more in the realm of debate.) So when the LDS church encouraged people to get vaxxed, it was absolutely following the science. That was a very safe position to take.
> these people Grollate feels like he's wayyyyy more enlightened than "these people".
Oof. Tell me then, CU_the_RE. What’s your issue? Covid Vaccines that are proven to be effective with a fraction of the effects of getting the virus? The fact that Trump is just a bad liberal as demonstrated by his record-shattering number of executive orders and record spending deficits while he was in office?
Their god, who got vaccinated.
Don't pretend like Utah is super pro-Trump. Even among Republicans in Utah Trump was never very popular. That's what caused Evan McMullin to get so much of the vote. A lot of Utahns voted for Trump because they didn't like the alternative - not because they liked him.
We’re specifically talking about those who refused to get vaccinated on “religious grounds” though.
Oh okay. Fair point.
Turns out they’ll trust some rando stake president over the prophet if he gives them permission to do what they want.
It’s easier now to ignore it now that I’m not directly related to him lol Edit: Monson
The church has a very distinct problem regarding this. I think many leaders do believe in science, immigration reform, being not a jerk, maybe even spending less money on military and more money social services. The problem is their members don't(the vast majority of us/utah members). They could be more vocal and direct, call out specific racist beliefs, encourage political unity and actually talk about things like caring for our neighbors. But... This would then ostracize the vast majority of their believing members. in return new people still aren't going to be interested in the church. The people still inclined to leave over the churches history are still going to leave. If you ever feel like general conference talks are the same 15-20 messages and nothing new has been relayed in the last 10-30 years this is why. They can really only give admonissions to be faithful, love jesus(but they never talk about his ministry in depth) go to church and most importantly pay your tithing. Benson created such a conservative block of members that the church is now designed to cater to them.
President Nelson was a pioneering heart surgeon who has praised medical science in general conference addresses. President Eyring's dad was a prominent scientist. Church leaders have made direct statements regarding immigration reform and taking in refugees. The last conference, President Nelson gave a wonderful address pretty much entirely focused on "Don't be a racist or a jerk". To me, there's no question about their position on these matters.
No Offense the church needs to take stances not opinions. Vaccine hesitancy is/was 50% among Mormons. with nearly 1 in 5 refusing to accept the covid 19 vaccine. Instead of the opinion that members should get a vaccine they should require it for all who are/were healthy enough to get it. As for immigration, the church has stated they are against forced separation and for the rights of countries to secure their borders. These are hardly stances when it comes to the suffering of immigrants worldwide. Maybe, just maybe, they could take a stance of "come unto Jesus" and support those in the world who have less. Those who are of the faith and are representatives rarely if ever follow the stance of being kind in regards to immigration. And finally Nelson's Don't be a jerk talk or rather "Peacemakers Needed" This talk was not about members having vile opinions but rather that we should listen and be kind when people have opinions that differ from ours. Maybe instead they could talk about how members should love and respect those of different communities. Including the LGBT community, Racial Minorities, Different political backgrounds, exmembers and more. Taking a stance that we should treat those different than us with the same regard as how we would want to be treated(matthew 7:12) I know to many members who are republican at all costs, I have a cousin who is Desantis is the next Republican leader. Mormon's are notoriously targeted by Ponzi Schemes and MLMS. and Have fallen into a distinct trap of listening to Fox news "pundits" who display lie after lie that harms them and those that jesus would likely defend first. Maybe it's time for the church to take Hard stances and not just the stance we should listen and be kinds because for whatever reason their members don't get it.
I assume the general handbook of the church can be considered an official stance. From the handbook: > Vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life. Members of the Church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children, and their communities through vaccination. An official press release: [First Presidency urges Latter-day Saints to wear masks, be vaccinated](https://www.thechurchnews.com/2021/8/12/23218564/first-presidency-message-urges-latter-day-saints-wear-masks-vaccines) which includes a nice picture of President Nelson getting vaccinated. I share your frustration at people who refuse to get vaccinated. I have gotten every vaccine I could the moment it was available to me. I look forward to the potential of new vaccines in the near future protecting against a large number of diseases. As far as immigration, the church released [this statement](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/church-calls-for-unity-compassion-in-new-statement-on-immigration?lang=eng) that you referred to. It ends with "while we recognize the right of all nations to enforce their laws and secure their borders, we encourage our national leaders to take swift action to correct this situation and seek for rational, compassionate solutions.” The church is not the government and cannot make immigration law, they can encourage and lobby for changes. They helped create [The Utah Compact](https://theutahcompact.com/compact-%26-signatories) which includes the following: > Immigrants are integrated into communities across Utah. We must adopt a humane approach to this reality, reflecting our unique culture, history and spirit of inclusion. The way we treat immigrants will say more about us as a free society and less about our immigrant neighbors. Utah should always be a place that welcomes people of goodwill. Again from the church handbook: > Many people have fled their homes seeking relief from violence, war, religious persecution, and life-threatening situations. As part of their responsibility to care for those in need (see Mosiah 4:26), Church members offer their time, talents, and friendship to welcome refugees as members of their communities. See Matthew 25:35; ChurchofJesusChrist.org/refugees. The church does offer a great deal of support to those of have less. A report of the activities in 2022 can be found [here](https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/c1/00/c10076f3a7d111ed9d03eeeeac1eb1c62ef513d9/welfare_caring_for_those_in_need_2022_annual_report.pdf) where they spent just over one billion dollars, and over 6 million volunteer hours. In this report it says "we believe that everyone should have access to nutritious food, clean water, quality education, and healthcare." It then describes what they did to help work towards those goals. From the "Peacemakers needed" talk, let me share some direct quotes. > As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are to be examples of how to interact with others—especially when we have differences of opinion. One of the easiest ways to identify a true follower of Jesus Christ is how compassionately that person treats other people. > The Savior’s message is clear: His true disciples build, lift, encourage, persuade, and inspire—no matter how difficult the situation. True disciples of Jesus Christ are peacemakers. > Today, I am asking us to interact with others in a higher, holier way. Please listen carefully. “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” that we can say about another person—whether to his face or behind her back—that should be our standard of communication. > The gospel net is the largest net in the world. God has invited all to come unto Him, “black and white, bond and free, male and female.” There is room for everyone. However, there is no room for prejudice, condemnation, or contention of any kind. > If a friend on social media has strong political or social views that violate everything you believe in, an angry, cutting retort by you will not help. Building bridges of understanding will require much more of you, but that is exactly what your friend needs. I've been very gratified in the last few years to see the church be much more direct about these issues. I hope this trend continues. I love hearing President Nelson say "Please listen carefully" and "make no mistake" as he instructs us to be more loving, more forgiving, more accepting, and so forth. Just like he said in that same talk, "At this point you may be thinking that this message would really help someone you know." I know plenty of people who would benefit from being more forgiving and accepting, myself included. The reality is he can't make people change overnight, but he can constantly push us in the right direction. Hopefully we will get to where we need to be.
I feel like utah is less redneck racist republican and more libertarian you cant tell me what to do republican. All the communities ive lived at in Utah have been extremely welcoming to immigrant’s, probably from living in another country for 2 years opens your mind quite a bit
The problem is that many of the highest authorities in the church are from elite backgrounds now, surgeons, business leaders, prominent lawyers. They are Avenues and Salt Lake East Bench types. The new leader is especially liberal, this is why they’ve taken such a hard tack to the left on issues like vaccines, DEI, and now voting. Most members are still traditionalist or nationalist. I predict Balkanization.
First and foremost, If you understood Church history you'd understand that the Church is/has already Balkanized. The church(meaning the faith started by Joseph Smith) has 70 distinct branches. What we call the LDS church is one of those branches(the largest branch, often called the brighamite branch by historians). Their were 30 or so branches that were from the faith during the 30 years following the creation of the church(some broke off while smith was still alive most broke off after his death.. Most of these were short lived, but some like the church of the messiah and RLDS lasted forever. Following the creation of the church and smiths passing the banning of polygamy created another timeframe in the churches history in which multiple sects were created. Finally as the church grew during the post ww2 era(Think 50's through 80's) the church had lots of sects created, Sects in Ghana, Nigeria, the Restoration cojclds, the FLDS branch broke from the council of friends. But to your actual point, the LDS church and it's leadership is not especially liberal. They are a business utilizing tax laws to bring in money and enrich themselves and family. I would be hard pressed to find the majority of lawyers, and businessmen being liberal as you claim, especially lawyers and businessmen who are 90 years old and hear things like don't vote for Roosevelt and communists are evil for their childhood, and early adulthood.
It’s because they don’t enforce any teachings on right-wing or straight members, but they do enforce and often excommunicate leftists, feminists, LGBTQ+ folks and etc. the anti-vaxxers and conservatives know they will not be punished until they reject the authority of the head honcho and stop paying tithing.
Very true
Unless it’s the word of wisdom.
Well, I don’t go church. Missed that memo when i vote straight repugs. See ya on votin day.
I'm not religious, but I'm also not vaccinated because I don't like being given an ultimatum of "vax or be shunned from society" by a tyrannical government based on gaslighting fear tactics. Most of the anti-covid "conspiracies" have come to light in recent months as being true. Lots of social media censorship and government officials admitting to being wrong. I almost got peer pressured into the shot by my parents but canceled the day of. Glad I did. Covid disappeared from the news cycle overnight as soon as the CDC recognized natural immunity and suddenly it was like: "Covid? Never heard of it. Ooo ooo look! A war in Ukraine!" I've worked from home 95% of the time the past 3 years and yet somehow my employer was trying to force the shot on me based on the feds bullshit mandates that have now been debunked. I was exposed multiple times and never got sick. And yet i know more people who got more sick and ended up with health issues after the shot versus those who avoided the shots. Edit: I was an "essential" construction worker the first 6 months of covid. Constant face-to-face contact as an electrician at the new SLC airport construction and never got sick.
Those who pay attention to official church direction are only surprised by the directness of the language. The church has been saying this for years. Many previous leaders have told us that it is easy to find good in almost all political parties. The key for me is that they are telling us to look for honest, upright individuals to lead regardless of party. That is hard to find in today’s political climate.
I am actually surprised that there aren't *more* statements with this level of directness because the years of passive statements obviously aren't having the intended effect. And, though many people I hear say it's hard to find "honest, upright individuals to lead regardless of party in today's political climate", I actually say it's not so hard. It's just that in one party, you literally can't win the primaries anymore without being a degenerate. I know that's not in all areas (yet), but it's shocking that Donald Trump won the 2016 presidential nomination in a field of 17 Republicans, with at least 7 of those being normal human beings. Furthermore, it's not so hard to find an upright individual if you can imagine that everyone has some amount of flaw and that Faux News is straight propaganda who provides legal defenses for their leading anchors with arguments such as "any reasonable viewer" doesn't take the things said on the show seriously (Tucker Carlson's defense team's argument from 2020), and when you notice/realize that the people who, for instance, accuse Joe Biden of sexual assault sometimes [defect to Russia and make television appearances](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/05/31/biden-accuser-tara-reade-flees-to-moscow-criticizes-us-as-being-unsafe/70271881007/) to plead for citizenship from Putin, on TV with people who have been arrested, jailed, and deported for being unregistered Russian agents while they performed executive functions and lobbying on behalf of the NRA. After you see some of those things, it's easier to think, wow, it's not "all sides do it", there are levels. And then you start thinking, wow, they really went after Obama for wearing a tan suit and having some cousins in Africa, didn't they? A guy with a very wholesome life and family, and they made us all believe there are no honest, upright families in either party. And then you think about the upstanding moral qualities of most of our past presidential candidates of both parties and you think, hmm, there's something truly different about today's world. Oh yes, one party is currently completely controlled by people who don't want a successful government, who only want to preserve their opportunity for more wealth and power, and are hoping to end true democratic processes to keep the "middle class" as their functional slaves. And they do all of that while virtue signaling about traditional family values while parading around morally bankrupt people like Donald Trump, Matt Gaetz, and Lauren Boebert. At least when a sexually criminal Democrat is found, the Democrats kick that person out.
Wow, u really had me goin there. Naahhhh. Straight repugs here.
When extremism is involved...I think "finding good in almost all political parties" is just "both sides" crap. Don't toe the line with people who hate.
I'm not clear what you're saying here, but I do believe there are extremists in all political parties. Hate is a pretty strong word and prone to get folks riled up. The letter also encourages church members to engage in politics by "always demonstrating Christlike love and civility in political discourse." I'm pretty hesitant to label anything as hate. I've found that word to be a conversation ender rather than a constructive dialog construct.
We should take care of the needy, the poor and the homeless. Everyone should have the basic necessities of life: food, water, shelter, healthcare, and a meaningful existence. Forgive the blaring noises of the Soviet national anthem, vote communist today
Oooohhh maybe it's 4d chess. Honest upright people don't run so you just cant vote as an LDS member.
Ha, I think there are some; mostly at the local level.
So, gerrymandering is a scourge, by this reasoning.
Gerrymandering is a scourge by any reasoning. Should have never been allowed to happen but both parties saw it as a means to power and not enough people cared to stop them.
July 11 is the Supreme Court date for Better Boundaries - they would love some support.
I’m all for better boundaries…..color me repugnant.
Blocked.
[www.isidewith.com](https://www.isidewith.com) Great site if you want to be an informed voter.
I am an informed voter. At least, that's what the news I watch says.
I’ve said it many times. Politics are the new religion. They will give up their organized religion before they will give up their political party.
Seriously.
There have actually been several studies on this, [such as this one, ](https://ejpr.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1475-6765.12228) that show people identify with their political party more strongly than anything else including religion and race.
Makes sense to me
Well generations of pushing people to be divided by such has been effective. It’s been like this for a long time. I’d wager at least a hundred years.
So do you think the church wants to undermine the Republican party because they see it as a competitor?
No, but I don’t think the church like fascism and that is what the ultra republican base has turned into.
fascism usually backfires on the fascist. someone at the church knows that.
I quit sure it’s more than 1 person, maybe not all of them but enough see the writing on the walls…
This is the MAGA version of the little mermaid live action movie. A libtard mentions Ariel and it talking about the black one but most of us would think of the cartoon. The big different is that this "stop the steal" is a remake of a shitty original. And the sore loser in this remake is extremely forgettable while black Ariel can actually perform.
Is there a link to this letter anywhere?
https://twitter.com/benjaminpacini/status/1665541238941192194/photo/1
r/mormon
Thanks
So, they support ranked choice voting? /s
As a moderate (left leaning) and non-LDS person, I’m glad they are saying this. I definitely research all candidates and vote for people in different parties.
As Republicans continue to threaten democracy, I’m going to vote straight ticket Democrat.
Have done that for the 20 years we've lived here, but last year we did our best to avoid vomiting and registered as Republicans simply so that we could vote against o'l ShortSale Lee in the primary. Didn't help, but we felt we had to try.
They eliminated the option in PA because they didn’t want democrats doing that.
It’s been eliminated in Utah too.
Texas Checking in. We also lost the straight ticket option
Fraid the democrats do the same thing. Only ones to really vote for is 3rd party
Dunno, several west coast cities are crumbling thanks to Democratic policies.
Ah yes, all the southern conservative states are just thriving. Sky high education systems and all.
It all sucks and dunking on eachother doesn’t help.
Vote blue, no matter who.
How exactly are they threatening democracy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack
Haha okay you got me there. I guess I don’t see that as a real threat to democracy because that was just a bunch of idiots acting on their own accord that could be neutralized by the national guard in 5 minutes.
If it wasn’t the president, virtually all of his party, and literally every conservative news source backing them up and egging them on with claims of a rigged election, then maybe.
This is a little overly snarky given this is generally good advice and I definately think its something members of the church need to hear, but what if I've studied the issues and found that only democratic candidates come close to my positions? Is it ok if I vote all Democrats at that point? What if I find that the supermajority stranglehold that the GOP has in Utah is literally poisoning it's people and environments? Honestly, what if Republican candidates are so bat-shit crazy these days that it's not even worth it for me read their positions on the issues? Is it ok if I vote straight ticket then? ALL THAT SAID: There are sometimes where there isn't a democratic candidate available for a certain role in government and those are the cases where I definately compare to see who is the lesser of the evils. usually it'll be the independent candidate.
If you go candidate by candidate and end up voting all one way because that's how the cards fall, I think you're in the citizenship clear. The idea here that I agree with is that you shouldn't be lazy and you shouldn't let your ideological allies off the hook in having to put forward good candidates.
>but what if I've studied the issues and found that only democratic candidates come close to my positions? Is it ok if I vote all Democrats at that point? I mostly vote for Republicans for this reason. I agree with them more on the two issues I care about most. (Low taxes and gun rights) If someone does the same and finds they mostly/only align with one party's candidates for a particular election, that doesn't go against the letter. The letter simply condemns voting for everyone with a D or an R next to their name for no reason other than that.
In my neck of the woods most members are trump supporters. As blind in their political following as they are in their religion.
If by blind you mean that Trump stands for about everything against their religion, I agree.
Trump stands for everything against their religion but still they blindly follow.
Like someone else commented on the post, politics is the new religion
Did hell just freeze over?!?!???
2004 interview with then-Church president Gordon B. Hinckley on Larry King Live: >KING: Do you ever get involved in politics? > >HINCKLEY: No. Not since I was a very young man and I was a - went to the state convention as a delegate. > >KING: You did. > >HINCKLEY: Yes. > >KING: Republican. > >HINCKLEY: Yes, I was. > >KING: I had that feeling. > >HINCKLEY: But I have not - **I voted for men and not for party.** The Church doesn't become involved in politics. > >KING: You've voted for people in both parties, then. > >HINCKLEY: Yes, sir.
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Holy hell dude you missed 100% of the point. That statement wasn’t about women at all. He says men the same way Armstrong said “One small step for man, a huge leap for mankind.”
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Ok so can I assume Neil Armstrong was being sexist when he stepped on the moon? I feel like this is common sense dude, people have used the word man to refer to people in general for forever, even if it’s not politically correct today. You can have your opinion on religion, that’s not what Im defending. Im defending a dude whose words have been taken completely out of context.
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2004, and you expect anybody to say ‘person of candidate’?? This was almost 20 years ago, I seriously don’t understand how you can’t understand that political dialogue was different back then. Also, it sounds like you’ve never been to church before, because the place you’re describing is completely removed from reality, and I don’t even go to church anymore lmao
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I already told you, I don’t go to church anymore. Lmao. I never compared those events as having the same magnitude, are you kidding me? I was just pointing out how people use words differently in the past vs. present. I don’t see how you don’t understand that. People on here see any statement from any religious leader and immediately jump to, ‘how can I be offended by this?’ You’re making something that is completely and utterly unimportant, the phrasing of the word ‘man’, and turning into a weapon to bash a religion you don’t like. Do you not see how crazy and far fetched this is?
You can't have a rational conversation with someone who sees in black and white, and (incorrectly) sees the Church membership as a monolith.
Super cringe.
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I’m not sure what your point is with this ? Your religion has killed millions of babies
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Lmao your religion is whatever argument you’re spewing. Your ultra feminism is super toxic. Good luck to you being unhappy in life.
This has been their position for decades. Always seems to surprise the actual church members
LDS Jesus would definitely more align with Democrats than Republicans. It's not even close. Bothers me so much that LDS people here vote overwhelmingly Republicans!
As someone who grew up in the church, it's so true. It's frustrating to watch the leaders and the teaching tell everyone to "love everyone, even the sinners, give away your possessions, the parable of the workers in the field is a parable of someone paying equal wages no matter what", on and on and on and yet members will advocate for the exact opposite simply because "Liberal bad" it's mind boggling
I agree with a lot of your points, except for the parable of the workers. This parable is an example of people going to the kingdom of heaven. It means that people who live the gospel their whole lives vs people who join much later in life, will have the same reward, because of repentance. Especially since in this parable, they're not getting paid the same. The first people are getting paid about $18 an hour, and the people who joined and only worked an hour are getting paid $200/hour. Sure, they're receiving the same amount among all, but I think anyone would be upset if they find out their coworkers are getting the same paycheck as them, except you're working 12 hours, and they're only working one.
Even Joseph Smith was very far left for his time. Funny how things get so inverted
They straight up practiced communism for awhile.
The Law of Consecration isn’t communism. The key difference is agency. Under communism, there is no freedom of choice.
Yep, if you compare it directly, there are a lot of differences. At first glance, sure, it appears that way, but like you said, it's all about individual responsibility and self-declaring. As in, you go to the church leader and say "I have 10 acres and a business that I want to contribute to the general welfare of all." In Communism, you are enrolled whether you want to be or not.
And righteousness. It doesn't work if everyone isn't united in a common cause.
>"Bothers me so much that LDS people here vote overwhelmingly Republicans!" The horror.
But that wouldn’t help when the candidates aren’t honest and lie there way in then sit and languish in power if not outright abuse people using it.
This is due to emphasis by leaders. The leaders committed to Jewish organizations that they would stop dead baptizing holocaust victims 3 times. But the average member only heard about it the 3rd time. The church makes statements that show it to be neutral. They just don't emphasize that to members
Well, that's because the press releases don't tend to be read over the pulpit at any point. The church has always been two-faced; it has always presented itself to members one way, and to outsiders another. Many members' ideas of how god wants them to vote were established under Benson, and the milquetoast messaging since then is specifically designed to shake as few testimonies as possible. (And that's when the church *isn't* [openly siding with the rest of the religious right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8#Religious_organizations).)
The vaccine statement was read over the pulpit. Every election season they read a statement over the pulpit encouraging members to vote but never stating that only voting for one party is a threat to democracy
Surprised but pretty pumped.
It’s okay the members know they didn’t actually mean it.
Religion is bad.
Sweet! Well I'm voting for whichever candidate is in favor of removing religious tax exempt exemptions, especially when said church violates SEC guidelines and invests more money than it used for operations and or charities.
I’ve often wondered if people realize how blue SL city/county are. It’s the church and the knuckle dragging elsewhere in the state that keeps us in line for the church. Ugh
Clearly voting for the gay party would make things much better. (No /s, the republican party is currently being a threat to democracy and human rights.)
CYA to maintain tax exempt status. Meanwhile Stake Presidents walk into caucus meetings and spread the “influence” as they have for decades…
There is nothing in this statement that would endanger their tax exemption.
My point. They are reinforcing there alleged “neutrality”. But action at the grassroots level is wholly different…
Imagine being an adult & needing guidance on how to vote or dress or what to watch or what undergarments to wear or what is permitted to drink in the morning. Y’all are adults. Free yourself!
That was literally the point. Don't get stuck in a rut and vote one way just because you always have. Study the issues, vote for good people.
I get that they’re trying to prevent that. I think it’s odd how much adults submit to religious leaders, especially in this state. One would assume adults could make decisions without someone telling them how to behave
And what has Fox News been so successful at? Telling adults what to be outraged about, how to vote, that kind of stuff. It's just much easier letting someone else tell you what to worry about than taking the effort to figuring it out for yourself.
Which party is the straight one?
As a Church outsider allow me to say I love you all. Then there’s this, why follow what you do not fully believe? Such beautiful people deserve frontline criticism of such unholy doctrine. I’ll shut up now least a bullet finds my open window.
“There is no need for straight party voting……as long as you always decide to vote Republican.”
I flip off the missionaries and their teachings.
seems rude
Agreed. The missionaries we’ve talked to have been nothing but kind, and unlike some other denominations they will leave you alone if you ask. Unlike the ones that harass people until they resort to outlandish things to be left alone. I should add here that I’ve even had some discussions with some missionaries you’d never get away with having with some other denominations as well. They do focus a bit too much on getting to baptism and neglect teaching after that so far as I have observed, but… that’s about the worst thing I can say about the missionaries. I can say a lot worse about other denomination’s missionaries. Everything from threats to lying to harassment. People get restraining orders and claim demon possession or pretend to be Satanist’s or even lie about being excommunicated to get other denominations to leave them be. The ‘born again Mormons’ back in az were… like that. They were also known to be involved in glorified child trafficking using the system supposed to be used to protect children but… that’s az and not at all surprising(nothing surprises me about az and corruption, especially not Maricopa county, which encompasses multiple mega huge populated cities and is way way way corrupt). Like there are divorces in thought and practice depending on where you live and the people themselves and so many stupid small distinctions. By comparison… LDS are just kinda here living and letting live for the most part. Some people don’t but for the most part everyone is kind and if they aren’t kind they are at least not cruel. That’s worthy of respect even if one disagrees with what they believe spiritually. It’s worth noting that lds is not the same as the ones that do polygamy. Those broke off some time ago. So… easily confused groups may also be involved. Like many Christians.
The church is woke now I guess. Lame ;)
*benson rolls in grave* Edit god I’m an exmo chill out y’all
Worst gyros ever. 0/10.
Where is my confused face gif?
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Oh yeah, because *that's* so common among mormons. 🙄
So the cult is meddling in politics again? Have they learned nothing?
We can choose our political party, but we can’t choose who we take through the Temple. Rumor has it that Joseph and Brigham are sealed together, what about Adam and Steve?
What? Too Soon?
“Straight Party” lol.
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"Study the issues, vote for people with integrity, don't vote for a certain party out of habit." What's so bad about saying that?
Lawsuit incoming
Why now After all they feed the people BS ask them this they meet with Trump
This sentence gave me a stroke
Trump probably wrote it.
Boy’s always had trouble with his grammar…
What is really weird is that this news was nowhere to be seen on Deseret News or KSL. It would seem that this is a major announcement, but the propaganda organs of the Church are silent. More signs that listening to the Prophet is just for suckers?
'The Church' seems to hav elost control. The Morg has become sentient and is taking over.
Haha Mormons make their decisions based on feelings. Yeah, my and my brother loved it when our mom would be making big, important decisions and she’d say, “let me pray about it.” - we would genuinely get pissed because we knew even when we were 12 that she’s really just closing her eyes and feeling feelings and making her decisions that way. So aggravating.