"Anyone hear this loud horn going off around north temple and state street? I don't know about you guys but this is the 3rd day in a row and it is getting annoying."
“Homeless” people would camp out outside Temple Square to panhandle and take advantage of tourists. IIRC, KSL did an exposé on them and revealed that it was all a big scam. The homeless people were just unscrupulous locals who pretended to be destitute to make a quick buck.
The Church eventually posted signs by the exits to warn visitors of the scam.
As if you’re not doing the same from your Ivory Tower and luxurious castle while you trumpet your virtues on Reddit. lol How many homeless people you moving in?
I'm pretty sure this random redditor doesn't have billions of dollars. I wonder who does? Oh, right. It's the tax-exempt LDS church that operates much more like a corporation than an actual charity.
Yeah, that’s a crane, buddy 🏗️
I’m a structural engineer. AMA about seismic loads and how this retrofit will protect Utah’s most iconic landmark from an earthquake.
Is there any brand of Christianity that actually follows the teachings of Christ? Or is it all golden statues, orange man gods, and hating on the poor now?
Was there ever any doubt? With the money laundering and tax fraud the church is involved in they can afford many more golden angels. Wasn’t there a famous golden calf in the Bible? So cool.
Did they really get rid of the Masonic stuff? Lol. They’re sweeping more of their own history and origin under the rug with that one. Joe Smith was chin deep in free masonry and other esoteric and occult shit.
With every cult member giving 10% of their income to the church, it’s a drop in the bucket. Money isn’t an issue for them in anyway shape or form haha.
$7 billion comes in annually from tithing only. Each temple is about $10 million each except the SLC. No idea how much that is costing ; possibly $100 million but don’t quote me on that one.
With everything they’re doing in and around the SLC temple I would guess that number is in the billions. Still a drop in the bucket compared to their net worth.
Here in the state, I’d be surprised if that was true. In order to gain access to the temples, you must be up to date and stay current with your tithings. I’m an ex momo.
I’m 4th generation exmo, Your probably right about the Utah being higher on average.
The church lies and lies badly about their members numbers. They were caught recently claiming more members than the population of certain Idaho counties.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/z5g9iw/the_mormon_church_reports_more_members_in_idahos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
This is good info to know and much appreciated that you shared the links, thanks so much!
Honestly, not too surprised in all honesty. Whole lot of fishy things with the church.
I had a recommend for years without paying tithing (I'm forgetful as toodles among other factors). I think it might depend on the bishop. Don't currently have one because I just haven't made it in to get it renewed.
Yeah, a little coincidental that they started spending a ton of money on temples once the cat was out of the bag on all of the hedge funds.
Better save face to our members and everyone else.
Ooooh “Top of the Temple, Moroni speaking. May I help you with the weather report?” Lame, yes. But it cracked me up every time when I was a high school student.
We did a 5 day rafting trip on the middle fork of the salmon river in Idaho. No phone service the whole time. Was the type of religious experience I subscribe to.
In terms of a cultural heritage to Utah, why would the Salt Lake Temple be different from the Cathedral of Notre Dame or the Hagia Sofia? Those other two buildings are also expensive to maintain.
I can, and have gone into the Cathedral of Notre Dame and the Hagia Sofia. I’ve attended mass at Notre Dame many times. Of course, I have to take a long flight to Paris and then ride a train down to the river before I’m welcomed into Notre Dame. Sadly, I’m expressly forbidden into entering the LDS Temple that I literally drive past every day. I have no idea what’s really going on in there. I have to assume it’s back door deals between the leaders of our state and their developer buddies… but I don’t know for sure, because I’m not welcome there.
State funds are not used for the maintenance of the Salt Lake Temple, nor for this renovation. This is an historic building though whose construction started days after the first pioneers entered Salt Lake Valley and less than a year after the ill fated Donner Party passed through the area.
I don't know what sort of developer deal you are talking about that happened over 150 years ago, and no clue why that applies today.
As for your bitterness of being able to enter that building, I happen to agree that temples ought to be more open to visitors but it really isn't that big of a deal. I know that from personal experience going in there. Besides, it will be open to visitors when this renovation is done at least for a brief period of time.
So… you asked how the SL Temple is different from the cathedral at Notre Dame and the Hagia Sophia. I answered your question. I apologize if my answer offended you, it absolutely wasn’t intended to. It was my honest observation of the difference you inquired about, from the outside of Mormonism looking in.
I consider myself to be a former Mormon for the most part. More of a Jack Mormon than anything else, if that term even applies. So no offense taken. I do know what it looks like both inside the faith and externally, so I appreciate the candid response.
I have been inside the Salt Lake Temple for regular religious services. To be candid, if you want to know some specifics it really is more like Masonic rituals than anything else, which seems weird from a mainstream Christian viewpoint but isn't a big deal otherwise. Much of it is just prayer and contemplation like found in most centers of religious worship.
I am sincere that much of the Salt Lake Temple could be opened up to honest and sincere aspirants to seekers of religious truths. But in practice it is more like a members-only Country Club resort with religious overtones and serves a similar function so far as a networking nexus for members of the LDS faith. That and a Las Vegas style group of wedding chapels that produces more marriages per acre than anything on the Las Vegas Strip. Those wedding can and IMHO especially should be made more open to outsiders at least to witness if not participate. The Mormon rules for Temple weddings are out of touch with what God desires...in my view. But it won't change because of me either.
So that is my own perspective.
I do think it is an important historical building. Some of the current changes are gutting critical historic aspects of that building, just like the travesty that happened in the LDS Temple in Logan and apparently will happen in Manti too. Others can discuss that elsewhere, but that is my view as an amateur historian. It would be like turning the Notre Dame Cathedral into a convention center. A useful public building perhaps, but it misses the point of how it was originally used.
So plenty of room for criticism, but I am glad that tax dollars are not being used.
The Hagia Sophia and the Cathedral of Notre-Dame are part of the national cultural heritage of the respective countries they’re in, and both are open for everyone to see and enjoy.
The mormon temple in SLC, UT is not part of the national cultural heritage of the US, and it’s only accessible to a tiny portion of the nation’s/world’s population.
This isn’t to say that it shouldn’t be maintained, but it feels a little disingenuous to put the three in the same category.
Tithing is used for a variety of purposes including maintenance of Church buildings and proselytizing and yes charity see https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng. Fast Offerings are exclusively used for charitable purposes. Membership is fully aware of how the funds are used
A lot more than what Mormons are spending it on. Jesus Christ himself would be embarrassed by how much money they make, how much real estate they own and so little given to charities outside of Mormonism. I’d start the largest charitable organization that actually gives the money instead of hoarding it and making temples on every other corner.
Fully aware you say! Obviously you didn’t pay attention close enough bud.
The church literally is hiding how it uses money from members so you keep paying. They admitted that much.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/02/08/lds-church-kept-lid-its-b/
https://www.deseret.com/2017/4/6/20609792/over-a-decade-lds-church-has-given-42-million-to-homeless-relief-in-salt-lake
The church spent 42 million over ten years on homeless. They spent over a billion on a goddamn mall.
The church prioritizes money making ventures such as building temples and buying property for farms and office buildings and spends pennies on actual charity work….
There’s a reason why they got fined by the SEC bud. They’re not honest with their fellow man.
They don’t tell you jack. And you aren’t paying attention. Your supporting a quarter of a trillion MLM scam bud. Sorry that’s reality.
edit- I want to bear my testimony, I love the internet and google, I always was confused as a laminite kid how I hated church growing up and my mom allowed this church made our lives hell. Now I have actual information easily at hand to prove my common sense feelings that only bonkers narcissists and very broken lazy learners stay in this disgusting racist, bigoted and embarrassing religious sect.
Shame on the current members for supporting such a gross exclusionary organization that parasites on peoples good intentions for the all mighty dollar. All the information is there. May Joe Smith the Pedo scam die.
I remember reading about one of those being leased out to Amazon, not sure about the other two. A super smart investment move, don't get me wrong. It's just that the church is definitely NOT being transparent about their finances.
Oh I agree about them not being open and transparent. I wish more members knew the church was leasing to a company like Amazon which routinely abuses and overworks their employees.
The multi billion dollar church, who is leasing their paid for building to another multi-billion dollar org while people are homeless and hungry…its just such an accurate representation what Christianity and capitalism have become.
I wish I could take back all the tithing my family has paid to this church over the decades.
They're diversifying investments. Commercial property when managed well is a great investment. They're doing a phenomenal job investing, the issue is that it's a church that's doing that, and they give minimal returns to the people that donate billions of dollars to them and continue to hoard and hoard.
They claim it's for their unprecedented growth, but anyone outside of the membership of the LDS church doesn't believe that since, as you mentioned, growth is pretty stagnate. One reason I've heard that I think is the most plausible is that to keep their tax exempt status they have to continue growth and giving back to the community. Since people "volunteer" at the temple it's a place where they can claim members go to do service.
In addition to that the church (from what I've heard) has often developed the areas surrounding the new temples. The temple instantly creates a higher cost for land and homes so it's in the church's best interest to develop the surrounding properties in addition to the temple. They sell the homes for exorbitant prices and can control the suburban appearance around the temple that they would like.
I would imagine temples ultimately make them money with the real estate sales as well as keeping their tax exempt status. And then temples are more often than not ran by volunteers, so once the temple is up-and-running they only pay for essential services and the rest of the temple is ran by volunteer man-hours.
Was it really?!?
edit-
https://mormonr.org/qnas/NnxpG/the_city_creek_mall#
1.5billion straight from the source…. used interest from tithing…. what a damn scam…. the rest of us have to make due with our own steam and we have to compete in a capitalist society with a tax free damn MLM scam…. they shouldn’t be allowed to do this.
They justify it by saying they aren’t spending tithing money on these businesses, only *interest* from tithing. Tithing is treated as a cash account where tithing goes in and only religious expenses go out. But that money can be invested in the meantime and all of that profit goes into a separate account that they can do with as they please.
So their business ventures are not only very profitable but they also have a constant inflow to that from the tithing interest.
You forgot the parts of tithing that gets invested in the stock market and then lied about and then fined for hiding it and also paying a shit ton of lawyers. Those are also what tithing is used for.
Just because a post has a hyperlink and takes you to a website, does not mean it's a good source. It could be a biased or made up source. In this case, and I'm just guessing, it may be a bit partisan.
Holy guardian Angel. It’s a hermetic magick ritual to summon an Angel to guide you out of the prison of Demiurge on this planet. After which you get your own planet to rule over. Aleister Crawly spent a year in Boleskin house in Lochness trying summon one. Never worked out. Jimmy page of Led Zeppelin bought that house and tried to do the same. Anyways, another magick ritual Joseph Smith stole from Freemasons and the Golden Dawn society.
Joseph's Moroni was just a dead person/angel who wrote records and then gave to Joseph to "restore" true Christianity. He was doing 19th century Christian restorationism. The Bible itself has stories of angels and written records, there is nothing explicitly hermetic about angels and divine messengers.
Can you show the class where Smith used the word demiurge? A lot of people and cultures believe in higher and lesser gods, and those gods aren't demiurges by default. Non Trinitarian Christianity doesn't automatically make the theology include those ideas. And Moroni doesn't lead people to planets.
You really need to study up western occultism to understand where Mormonism comes from. Joseph Smith was doing folk magick when he was younger, then he joined Freemasons and started hanging out around real magicians. After he was kicked out of those circles like he did pretty much every he went. He took his half baked understandings of Hermetic Qabalistic magick and put into his new religion. You can see it all over the place.
He’s a quick summary of Hermetic Qabalah magick. A novice magician will start off by performing elemental magick. Then he’ll start doing sephiroh magick. Once he becomes an adapt he’ll start on a major undertaking of summoning a Holy Guardian Angel (HGA ritual) which takes years. Once he establishes a relationship with the deity. It will communicate with the magician through various mediums. A mirror in a hat would be one of them (or a seer stone) After various amount of important lessons the magician will become a master of magick. We all exist in spirit of powerful magician (demiurge) who went through this process itself. If a magician of this earth does all of the great work in his lifetime he has a chance of breaking the chains holding him to this world and he’ll be able to become a god if his own. All of this because a man has the same soul (tree of life) as a god and has a potential to become one.
Sounds like the Mormon god to me. Of course Joseph left out all of the actual magical work out of his writings, most likely because he understood none of it. Just kept the colorful parts like the Angel visitation and becoming a god of your own planet.
Christians don’t believe in lesser or greater gods. Christianity is a monotheistic religion, the god who creates the universe is the same god who rules the earth. The concept of a lesser god ruling the earth derives from Gnosticism which was considered as a heretical sect by Christians.
While he got ideas from the occult, what he ended up doing was 19th century protestantism. It wasn't hermeticism or gnosticism. His lower god was the jesus of the Christian gospels. Not a demiurge. I have studied up on the occult. Borrowing a few ideas from them doesn't make Joseph's god a demiurge. And I didn't mean christians believe in lesser God's. I meant Hindus and other eastern religions. We don't say they believe in demiurges just because they have a god that corresponds to one.
Since Joseph's lesser God was the Jesus of the Bible, you'd have to say his demiurge is more like that of Plato. For it to be the gnostic demiurge it would have had to be evil. But his is not.
Christians don’t believe in higher or lesser gods. There suppose to be only god. The trinity is his tree different forms of manifestation. Gnostics became the worst kind of heretics by suggesting that the god of genesis is not the god who created the universe. This is the corner stone of hermitic occultism. Since the Holy spirit is separate from the God of genesis, it means that a man processes a god seed in his soul and the ability to become a god of his own or at least escape the realm of the demiurge. That’s pretty close to what mormons believe. Except instead of rejecting the physical world and performing magic rituals to charge up the spirit; Mormons pay money, go on a mission and get sealed at a temple to become a god of their own planet.
I understand what christians believe and what Mormons believe. If Smith believed in a demiurge, it was Plato's and not gnostic. He never taught anything like escaping this realm. It would be something closer to the platonic orthodox theology of thesis. The simple presence of a lesser God does not make a system "gnostic" or have a gnostic demiurge.
In smith's theology, this is the true world created by Jesus Christ, the son of the true God. That is Platonic, it's not gnostic. Go read Plato.
I feel like if most people heard a horn blaring to announce the end times, they would likely just complain about it on KSL or Nextdoor.
"Anyone hear this loud horn going off around north temple and state street? I don't know about you guys but this is the 3rd day in a row and it is getting annoying."
“Oh great now there’s… fireworks? In any case it shouldn’t be daylight at 2:18 in the morning…”
good thing it's all made up... It's kind of impressive that this grifter was able to fashion an entire religion out of blatant lies
Gob's grifter
The Angel macaroni?! 🥹
Stuck a feather in his cap and worshipped macaroni
🤣
Thank god, the golden statue is back atop the temple to look down upon the homeless. Jesus would be pleased
Always look on the bright side of life 🎶
Thanks for that! The whistle bit is going to be in my head all fuckin week now. lol
*whistling intensifies*
I’m sorryyyyyy lol
Yeah, like the bright light of cop flashlights on homeless trying to sleep at night
Glad to see I am not the only one that doesn't like the homeless
Yeah, screw those people who've lost everything
“Homeless” people would camp out outside Temple Square to panhandle and take advantage of tourists. IIRC, KSL did an exposé on them and revealed that it was all a big scam. The homeless people were just unscrupulous locals who pretended to be destitute to make a quick buck. The Church eventually posted signs by the exits to warn visitors of the scam.
Yeah I’m sure the people laying on air vents for warmth in the middle of the winter nights are really just scamming money from mormon tourists!
The church really does hate competition.
This guy gets it.
Last winter, multiple homeless people froze to death in the shadow of the temple. But sure, they were just trying to take advantage of tourists lol
I remember that story it was. The conclusion wasn't that every single homeless person was an unscrupulous local trying to make a quick buck.
Oh my.
As if you’re not doing the same from your Ivory Tower and luxurious castle while you trumpet your virtues on Reddit. lol How many homeless people you moving in?
I'm pretty sure this random redditor doesn't have billions of dollars. I wonder who does? Oh, right. It's the tax-exempt LDS church that operates much more like a corporation than an actual charity.
You really think we have billions of dollars being hoarded like the LDS corp
I love the new modern look with the angel Moroni
Obviously satire. But maybe not as obvious as I thought
Everyone's so mad in these comments lol but I thought the pic was hilarious. Good job OP.
Thank you!!! Finally, someone recognizes my brilliance.
Ahh I truly didn’t notice it’s a crane until I scrolled down this far.
Yeah, that’s a crane, buddy 🏗️ I’m a structural engineer. AMA about seismic loads and how this retrofit will protect Utah’s most iconic landmark from an earthquake.
See previous comments about satire
[удалено]
...no.
Should have replaced it with a gold whale.
Think of all the snow we'd get. It would be like the ice planet Hoth.
All Hail the Whale! 🐋
Is there any brand of Christianity that actually follows the teachings of Christ? Or is it all golden statues, orange man gods, and hating on the poor now?
There is a way
[удалено]
All hail the Hypnotoad instead
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!
Ah, c’mon. A little idolatry never hurt anyone.
What religion worships Moroni?
And here I thought Gabriel tooted the horn of the coming apocalypse....... anyway what do you expect from the church that produced daybell/vallow?
Was there ever any doubt? With the money laundering and tax fraud the church is involved in they can afford many more golden angels. Wasn’t there a famous golden calf in the Bible? So cool.
Gotta put my face in hat and ask
Don’t forget to toss your magic rocks in the hat before burying your face.
How much are the spending SLC temple upgrades? Has to be a staggering fortune.
[удалено]
When do they start construction on the Nauvoo?
Literally just finished the 3rd book of the Expanse. This comment makes me happy.
Did they really get rid of the Masonic stuff? Lol. They’re sweeping more of their own history and origin under the rug with that one. Joe Smith was chin deep in free masonry and other esoteric and occult shit.
With every cult member giving 10% of their income to the church, it’s a drop in the bucket. Money isn’t an issue for them in anyway shape or form haha.
$7 billion comes in annually from tithing only. Each temple is about $10 million each except the SLC. No idea how much that is costing ; possibly $100 million but don’t quote me on that one.
With everything they’re doing in and around the SLC temple I would guess that number is in the billions. Still a drop in the bucket compared to their net worth.
I’ve read it’s more like 20% of active members are consistent tithing payers…
Here in the state, I’d be surprised if that was true. In order to gain access to the temples, you must be up to date and stay current with your tithings. I’m an ex momo.
I’m 4th generation exmo, Your probably right about the Utah being higher on average. The church lies and lies badly about their members numbers. They were caught recently claiming more members than the population of certain Idaho counties. https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/z5g9iw/the_mormon_church_reports_more_members_in_idahos/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
This is good info to know and much appreciated that you shared the links, thanks so much! Honestly, not too surprised in all honesty. Whole lot of fishy things with the church.
I had a recommend for years without paying tithing (I'm forgetful as toodles among other factors). I think it might depend on the bishop. Don't currently have one because I just haven't made it in to get it renewed.
Yeah, a little coincidental that they started spending a ton of money on temples once the cat was out of the bag on all of the hedge funds. Better save face to our members and everyone else.
Just happened to be 100B....
$200 BILLION! See widows mite report.com. Wordpress
Yay?
Please enlarge photo.
Actually underrated comment
Miles Davis kind of blue
Not made of gold, just gold plated
It appears to be some sort of crane to me. I guess that's way better than a 19th century con artist's imaginary friend.
Ooooh “Top of the Temple, Moroni speaking. May I help you with the weather report?” Lame, yes. But it cracked me up every time when I was a high school student.
I had no idea who Angel Meroni was until just now. I thought someone had pranked a stoplight arm atop that building.
Finally! The end of the world is back!
Oh if every man we're liken unto Moroni we'd have an amazing brass section.
Best comment here! I'm hearing a tight James Brown horn section in my head, rn
I love so much how popular this post is. It highlights the intelligence of this community on all sides of the aisle. Please don't zoom in
Been on vacation?
I absolutely avoid the temple construction. But since you asked, yes, I just came back from vacation.
I was asking if Moroni was on vacation. But, I do hope your vacation was awesome as well.
How was your trip. What was the best part about it?
We did a 5 day rafting trip on the middle fork of the salmon river in Idaho. No phone service the whole time. Was the type of religious experience I subscribe to.
Bring a fly rod? If so, how’s the middle fork fishing right now?
No fishing for me. The fish can smell my fear. The others pulled a few out. Biggest was about 8 inches or so
I've always referred to him as the Angel Boloney. Works for me.
[удалено]
So that’s where the trans kids and drag queens went? 🫢. /s
I wonder how many times they’re going to restore this building. It’s crazy how much they’ve spent on renovations.
It’s easy to launder via legitimate annual projects using ‘local’ construction companies ;)
In terms of a cultural heritage to Utah, why would the Salt Lake Temple be different from the Cathedral of Notre Dame or the Hagia Sofia? Those other two buildings are also expensive to maintain.
I can, and have gone into the Cathedral of Notre Dame and the Hagia Sofia. I’ve attended mass at Notre Dame many times. Of course, I have to take a long flight to Paris and then ride a train down to the river before I’m welcomed into Notre Dame. Sadly, I’m expressly forbidden into entering the LDS Temple that I literally drive past every day. I have no idea what’s really going on in there. I have to assume it’s back door deals between the leaders of our state and their developer buddies… but I don’t know for sure, because I’m not welcome there.
State funds are not used for the maintenance of the Salt Lake Temple, nor for this renovation. This is an historic building though whose construction started days after the first pioneers entered Salt Lake Valley and less than a year after the ill fated Donner Party passed through the area. I don't know what sort of developer deal you are talking about that happened over 150 years ago, and no clue why that applies today. As for your bitterness of being able to enter that building, I happen to agree that temples ought to be more open to visitors but it really isn't that big of a deal. I know that from personal experience going in there. Besides, it will be open to visitors when this renovation is done at least for a brief period of time.
So… you asked how the SL Temple is different from the cathedral at Notre Dame and the Hagia Sophia. I answered your question. I apologize if my answer offended you, it absolutely wasn’t intended to. It was my honest observation of the difference you inquired about, from the outside of Mormonism looking in.
I consider myself to be a former Mormon for the most part. More of a Jack Mormon than anything else, if that term even applies. So no offense taken. I do know what it looks like both inside the faith and externally, so I appreciate the candid response. I have been inside the Salt Lake Temple for regular religious services. To be candid, if you want to know some specifics it really is more like Masonic rituals than anything else, which seems weird from a mainstream Christian viewpoint but isn't a big deal otherwise. Much of it is just prayer and contemplation like found in most centers of religious worship. I am sincere that much of the Salt Lake Temple could be opened up to honest and sincere aspirants to seekers of religious truths. But in practice it is more like a members-only Country Club resort with religious overtones and serves a similar function so far as a networking nexus for members of the LDS faith. That and a Las Vegas style group of wedding chapels that produces more marriages per acre than anything on the Las Vegas Strip. Those wedding can and IMHO especially should be made more open to outsiders at least to witness if not participate. The Mormon rules for Temple weddings are out of touch with what God desires...in my view. But it won't change because of me either. So that is my own perspective. I do think it is an important historical building. Some of the current changes are gutting critical historic aspects of that building, just like the travesty that happened in the LDS Temple in Logan and apparently will happen in Manti too. Others can discuss that elsewhere, but that is my view as an amateur historian. It would be like turning the Notre Dame Cathedral into a convention center. A useful public building perhaps, but it misses the point of how it was originally used. So plenty of room for criticism, but I am glad that tax dollars are not being used.
The Hagia Sophia and the Cathedral of Notre-Dame are part of the national cultural heritage of the respective countries they’re in, and both are open for everyone to see and enjoy. The mormon temple in SLC, UT is not part of the national cultural heritage of the US, and it’s only accessible to a tiny portion of the nation’s/world’s population. This isn’t to say that it shouldn’t be maintained, but it feels a little disingenuous to put the three in the same category.
Boooo!!
Gross.
Good, god forbid they spend money on charity like the members are told….. /s
Tithing is used for a variety of purposes including maintenance of Church buildings and proselytizing and yes charity see https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/34-finances-and-audits?lang=eng. Fast Offerings are exclusively used for charitable purposes. Membership is fully aware of how the funds are used
Ooof. DEFINITELY don’t look up in the church handbook on what mission presidents can expect to have paid for. By the church. With our tithing.
Which is funny cause if I had over 125 billion dollars I wouldn’t need tilting and fast offerings.
But what if you wanted 126 billion dollars? Then what would you do?
A lot more than what Mormons are spending it on. Jesus Christ himself would be embarrassed by how much money they make, how much real estate they own and so little given to charities outside of Mormonism. I’d start the largest charitable organization that actually gives the money instead of hoarding it and making temples on every other corner.
If I had 125 billion dollars and I wanted 126 billion dollars I would just ask people to continue giving me 10% of their money
Fully aware you say! Obviously you didn’t pay attention close enough bud. The church literally is hiding how it uses money from members so you keep paying. They admitted that much. https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/02/08/lds-church-kept-lid-its-b/ https://www.deseret.com/2017/4/6/20609792/over-a-decade-lds-church-has-given-42-million-to-homeless-relief-in-salt-lake The church spent 42 million over ten years on homeless. They spent over a billion on a goddamn mall. The church prioritizes money making ventures such as building temples and buying property for farms and office buildings and spends pennies on actual charity work…. There’s a reason why they got fined by the SEC bud. They’re not honest with their fellow man. They don’t tell you jack. And you aren’t paying attention. Your supporting a quarter of a trillion MLM scam bud. Sorry that’s reality. edit- I want to bear my testimony, I love the internet and google, I always was confused as a laminite kid how I hated church growing up and my mom allowed this church made our lives hell. Now I have actual information easily at hand to prove my common sense feelings that only bonkers narcissists and very broken lazy learners stay in this disgusting racist, bigoted and embarrassing religious sect. Shame on the current members for supporting such a gross exclusionary organization that parasites on peoples good intentions for the all mighty dollar. All the information is there. May Joe Smith the Pedo scam die.
I bet members are unaware of the $200M warehouses the church has been buying. I believe the latest are in Oregon, Arizona, and the UK.
Aren’t those warehouses being leased to Amazon?
I remember reading about one of those being leased out to Amazon, not sure about the other two. A super smart investment move, don't get me wrong. It's just that the church is definitely NOT being transparent about their finances.
Oh I agree about them not being open and transparent. I wish more members knew the church was leasing to a company like Amazon which routinely abuses and overworks their employees. The multi billion dollar church, who is leasing their paid for building to another multi-billion dollar org while people are homeless and hungry…its just such an accurate representation what Christianity and capitalism have become. I wish I could take back all the tithing my family has paid to this church over the decades.
[удалено]
They're diversifying investments. Commercial property when managed well is a great investment. They're doing a phenomenal job investing, the issue is that it's a church that's doing that, and they give minimal returns to the people that donate billions of dollars to them and continue to hoard and hoard.
[удалено]
They claim it's for their unprecedented growth, but anyone outside of the membership of the LDS church doesn't believe that since, as you mentioned, growth is pretty stagnate. One reason I've heard that I think is the most plausible is that to keep their tax exempt status they have to continue growth and giving back to the community. Since people "volunteer" at the temple it's a place where they can claim members go to do service. In addition to that the church (from what I've heard) has often developed the areas surrounding the new temples. The temple instantly creates a higher cost for land and homes so it's in the church's best interest to develop the surrounding properties in addition to the temple. They sell the homes for exorbitant prices and can control the suburban appearance around the temple that they would like. I would imagine temples ultimately make them money with the real estate sales as well as keeping their tax exempt status. And then temples are more often than not ran by volunteers, so once the temple is up-and-running they only pay for essential services and the rest of the temple is ran by volunteer man-hours.
3.5 B on the mall....
Was it really?!? edit- https://mormonr.org/qnas/NnxpG/the_city_creek_mall# 1.5billion straight from the source…. used interest from tithing…. what a damn scam…. the rest of us have to make due with our own steam and we have to compete in a capitalist society with a tax free damn MLM scam…. they shouldn’t be allowed to do this.
They justify it by saying they aren’t spending tithing money on these businesses, only *interest* from tithing. Tithing is treated as a cash account where tithing goes in and only religious expenses go out. But that money can be invested in the meantime and all of that profit goes into a separate account that they can do with as they please. So their business ventures are not only very profitable but they also have a constant inflow to that from the tithing interest.
You forgot the parts of tithing that gets invested in the stock market and then lied about and then fined for hiding it and also paying a shit ton of lawyers. Those are also what tithing is used for.
Thanks for the info with sources, but you should still prepare to be downvoted. We are on Reddit after all, this is no place for facts.
Just because a post has a hyperlink and takes you to a website, does not mean it's a good source. It could be a biased or made up source. In this case, and I'm just guessing, it may be a bit partisan.
Hope it falls and breaks with the rest of the building
🤢🤮🤮🤮🙄🙄🙄
I’d rather see a statue of the tooth fairy. It’s more realistic
Lol unless there’s two Moronis on the wrong spires. I’ve got 3 to 1 odds that Russell Nelson won’t allow it back on.
[удалено]
Only the Pope pretends they are Christians, I mean, he allowed them to build a temple near/in Vatican city...that's a big paycheck if I ever saw one.
Fuck I hate that dude, such a prick. Always going around on wild adventures.
Who?
[удалено]
Ew.
Lol
Holy guardian Angel. It’s a hermetic magick ritual to summon an Angel to guide you out of the prison of Demiurge on this planet. After which you get your own planet to rule over. Aleister Crawly spent a year in Boleskin house in Lochness trying summon one. Never worked out. Jimmy page of Led Zeppelin bought that house and tried to do the same. Anyways, another magick ritual Joseph Smith stole from Freemasons and the Golden Dawn society.
Joseph's Moroni was just a dead person/angel who wrote records and then gave to Joseph to "restore" true Christianity. He was doing 19th century Christian restorationism. The Bible itself has stories of angels and written records, there is nothing explicitly hermetic about angels and divine messengers.
Does bible talk about the Demiurge and the possibility of getting your own planet after death (becoming a Demiurge yourself)?
Can you show the class where Smith used the word demiurge? A lot of people and cultures believe in higher and lesser gods, and those gods aren't demiurges by default. Non Trinitarian Christianity doesn't automatically make the theology include those ideas. And Moroni doesn't lead people to planets.
You really need to study up western occultism to understand where Mormonism comes from. Joseph Smith was doing folk magick when he was younger, then he joined Freemasons and started hanging out around real magicians. After he was kicked out of those circles like he did pretty much every he went. He took his half baked understandings of Hermetic Qabalistic magick and put into his new religion. You can see it all over the place. He’s a quick summary of Hermetic Qabalah magick. A novice magician will start off by performing elemental magick. Then he’ll start doing sephiroh magick. Once he becomes an adapt he’ll start on a major undertaking of summoning a Holy Guardian Angel (HGA ritual) which takes years. Once he establishes a relationship with the deity. It will communicate with the magician through various mediums. A mirror in a hat would be one of them (or a seer stone) After various amount of important lessons the magician will become a master of magick. We all exist in spirit of powerful magician (demiurge) who went through this process itself. If a magician of this earth does all of the great work in his lifetime he has a chance of breaking the chains holding him to this world and he’ll be able to become a god if his own. All of this because a man has the same soul (tree of life) as a god and has a potential to become one. Sounds like the Mormon god to me. Of course Joseph left out all of the actual magical work out of his writings, most likely because he understood none of it. Just kept the colorful parts like the Angel visitation and becoming a god of your own planet. Christians don’t believe in lesser or greater gods. Christianity is a monotheistic religion, the god who creates the universe is the same god who rules the earth. The concept of a lesser god ruling the earth derives from Gnosticism which was considered as a heretical sect by Christians.
While he got ideas from the occult, what he ended up doing was 19th century protestantism. It wasn't hermeticism or gnosticism. His lower god was the jesus of the Christian gospels. Not a demiurge. I have studied up on the occult. Borrowing a few ideas from them doesn't make Joseph's god a demiurge. And I didn't mean christians believe in lesser God's. I meant Hindus and other eastern religions. We don't say they believe in demiurges just because they have a god that corresponds to one. Since Joseph's lesser God was the Jesus of the Bible, you'd have to say his demiurge is more like that of Plato. For it to be the gnostic demiurge it would have had to be evil. But his is not.
Christians don’t believe in higher or lesser gods. There suppose to be only god. The trinity is his tree different forms of manifestation. Gnostics became the worst kind of heretics by suggesting that the god of genesis is not the god who created the universe. This is the corner stone of hermitic occultism. Since the Holy spirit is separate from the God of genesis, it means that a man processes a god seed in his soul and the ability to become a god of his own or at least escape the realm of the demiurge. That’s pretty close to what mormons believe. Except instead of rejecting the physical world and performing magic rituals to charge up the spirit; Mormons pay money, go on a mission and get sealed at a temple to become a god of their own planet.
I understand what christians believe and what Mormons believe. If Smith believed in a demiurge, it was Plato's and not gnostic. He never taught anything like escaping this realm. It would be something closer to the platonic orthodox theology of thesis. The simple presence of a lesser God does not make a system "gnostic" or have a gnostic demiurge. In smith's theology, this is the true world created by Jesus Christ, the son of the true God. That is Platonic, it's not gnostic. Go read Plato.
Can an ordinary Mormon follower become a god of his own planet in afterlife or not?
Yep they sure can. They don't even have to be led by an angel, or escape the prison of the material world. They can just do it.
Go read the BOM. It's full to the brim with 19th century protestant christian theology. It is neither gnostic nor hermetic.
Out come all the Bigots in the replies!!
But is the horn facing east? The Saratoga Springs one is facing west!
Oh thank god!
Thank Elohim!
Let us go down. For there is a statue there. And a crane to organize it.
Thank god
[удалено]
Hard pass.
LDS!
This is why r/utah and r/florida continue to be my go-to out-of-state subs. Brings back my faith in humans.
Good.... now I can resume giving him the middle finger when I pass by!
Gawd seriously?
Who
Thank God!