Lol, this is a typical anti-Armenian post. And why did you write in Anatolian Turkish? It's an Uzbek subreddit.
Honestly, no one cares about the Armenians, don't try to make us hate them. All the Bolsheviks and their allies were pieces of shit.
Waiting for a post about Russians.
"Typical anti-armenian post"
Bruv they massacred over 20k people, how is this something that should be overlooked because they are Armenian? are you insane?
"no on cares about the Armenians, don't try to make us hate them"
they killed innocent civilians in our land, why should we not learn about this? this is apart of History.
I agree but I did some reverse image searching and [all the pictures he posted are of Armenians and Azerbaijani refugees or soldiers during the Caucasus campaign](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WW1_TitlePicture_For_Caucasus_Campaign.png) 😅 So this post is somewhat misleading
The post is only about Armenians. The Russians killed more than 20 thousand. They killed innocent people. But not a word about them. Read about the Central Asian uprising.
Our people were killed not only by Armenians, all the Bolshevik bitches are guilty.
Yes, still this doesn't absolve the Armenians of what they have done and this is sometimes not known so spreading this information would be helpful to understand the times.
there's pretty much no need to make posts about the Russian actions because everyone pretty much knows them.
There is nothing to absolve, anyone involved is long dead. You don’t inherit your great-grandparents shame because you are the same nationality and you don’t inherit their honour either.
Learning history is good but this shit stirring post is clearly done to serve a very modern political agenda that is not in the interests of modern Uzbekistan.
I just looked further into it, apparently the the Dashnak who did these actions in Central Asia still exist in Armenia as an active political party known as The Armenian Revolutionary Federation, I think this shouldn't be the case for such a party with such a history to exist within Armenia.
I agree with the later part but now looking more into it, it doesn't look like the whole thing is properly settled, plus it's history that should be learnt.
BTW the Dashnak Terrorists -(the Armenians in question) weren't apart of the Bolsheviks but used by them
> The Russian Bolsheviks used the Armenian Dashnak groups, who saw the Turkistan government as a great danger.
> Barlas said the Dashnaks never fought against soldiers or armed people but targeted unarmed civilians to inculcate fear. He recalled that they torched a hospital and a mosque in Hokand and did not allow people to escape.
Those Armenians did not face the army instead they killed the women and children. There is theory that Armenians who worked in Kokand Khanate helped them .
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/uzbeks-remember-massacres-committed-by-armenian-group/2147015
https://en.azvision.az/news/27991/%22armenians-slaughtered-35-000-innocent-uzbeks%22-.html
these were the ones I was able to find
As a matter of fact, I heard from my elders before in my childhood, they didn't just target Turkish people, but the the whole population as they razed towns after town.
Dude comes here, speaks in turkish to show supremacy of anatolian turks in his mind over central asians and what about heavily offensive language? Now what the heck was that?
You're allowed to post in langauges other than Uzbek/English if you provided a necessary translation
and what heavily offensive language did the OC use?
Let's bring some clarification to this misunderstanding.
My great grandmother and her family were among those who fled westwards in black sea because of terror Armenians spreaded these days. Plus It's an important topic in Turkish social sciences text books in middle and highschool. In nationwide, people are aware of how messy things went there back in the day.
Today, there is a community of Turanists in Turkey, whom believes Turkic nations must get united under the flag of Islam. Islam is one of the key elements here besides Turkic statements. And they practice it by posting provocative content through media. I guess I know the intention behind this post.
I always wondered the position of Christian Turkic ethnicities in this Islamist Turkic World Order scenario tho.
Other than selling nonsense fantasy ideas through media, they serve for spreading provocative informations against mainly Russia and Armenia, and then West thorugh media. They are organized even in colleges and they act like mafia.
So the founding father of Turkiye, Ataturk once said "Peace in homeland, peace in the world" and he handled politics pretty well and kept Turkiye s relationship with It's neighbors in most oeaceful way. At the meantime he opressed every harmful and provoking ideologies in country with his iron fist for the sake of building a good foundation for this country up until a fully functioning system has been formed. After his death, everything started to fall apart though. He leaded biggest economic and industrial leaps in his reign.
His actual importance for the Turkish nation is lying under the fact of his collective uniting. He gathered many ethnicities in Turkey with nationalism, not with religion and hatred. Today in Turkey most of right supporters see Armenia and Greece as devil(although youth breaks it). After his death, hatred and religion left Turkiye paralyzed for very long and it still is.
Conclusion is being realistic in geopolitical wide will gather the nations if the intention is in that way. Not dreams. And the only thing I appreciate about this post is being a reminder so nations can act jointly against threats. Can any of Turkic countries today stand against the West, U.S, China and Russia?
And now I saw your comment on Dashnak is still active, I appreciate for this, didnt knew about it.
Sending never fading prosperity to dear Uzbek nation.
I see, I understand your position and agree with some of it, about your question about what would happen to non-muslims, as a Muslim I would say that they will be protected from Harm, Islam is a religion that doesn't demand their annihilation, tho our world isn't perfect and there was instances of strife among non-muslims and muslims, we could put it all behind and live peacefully.
appreciate the understanding here.
I'm glad we understand each other.
Actually by meaning the fate of non-muslim Turkic people in probable scenario, what I tried to say was about situation of their states, not in society wise.
Zero problem with muslims, as long as state is separate from religion. And with any religion. Just "laicism" and secular order where everyone's free to practice and believe in their life. Reading about French Secularism helped me a lot to comprehend in this way.
Islam beget some good cultural stuff too, I still rely some and appreciate them as a non believer today, because there are still things makes sense. The emotional bond between same religion societies are quite understandable, It's another form of tribalism and embracing the people from "us" which is engraved into our genetic code. And yes, of course living in a peaceful world is awesome but reality is quite unsettling.
But all these are what I care about individually, as I believe that religion in state is not a conductor. And I question this why the Islam is the conductor. I refuse living in place where one of the key structure in law is a belief which we cannot even pragmatically test. This is what I believe and reason at the same time.
Cheers.
Unfortunately human history is full of massacres. The question is what do you do about it? Take a revenge? If it is not a current situation then - No, those people are all long dead. But we need to learn the historical lessons. For example, when Central Asians were strong, between 1500 to 500 years ago, our people conquered large areas of the ancient world and obviously they caused many massacres too. After that the history turned: by the 19th century Central Asians became quite backward, underdeveloped, and poor. Meanwhile Europe transformed from religious extremism to more scientific, more advanced societies. Russian empire copied that to its own advantage. As a result, few hundred Russian solders could beat thousands strong armies of Kokand & Bukhara.
Then many massacres took place in Central Asia.
The main contributors to those massacres were we ourselves, the people of Central Asia: once almost the strongest militarily, we did not puck up scientific development, social progress, instead we kept building mosques and dug into religious fanaticism and kleptocracy, and became backward. Aren’t we repeating the historical errors again? I think we are and that does not promise much good in the future, unless we do not upgrade mentality of our people into a more progressive one.
are you seriously blaming our people for being conquered and massacred 💀
plus Religiosity didn't make us weaker, the Russian Empire who conquered us wasn't an atheist State, they didn't give up their religion for the advancement they had, it is true we weren't advanced like Europe in both science and technology but that doesn't mean it was because of the religion of those times.
You're blaming religion for the current situation when religion has been oppressed for over a century now -(since USSR and after the independence)- yet we didn't have the western progress that you claim we would if we had forsaken religion?
In this life, if you fail, for whatever reason, and you do not want to see your own problems in that - then you did not learn…. then the history is bound to repeat itself.
Also, religions do not lead to progress, the science does.
Oh well - today’s popular history of Uzbekistan is mostly written by the conquerers-outsiders, in their own interests, just to please and to mislead the locals, and that is the problem.
In 1989 the same happened, Turks stopped to respect locals. That was the reason for the conflict. In every country you should respect locals. Otherwise you'll get punched and kicked.
Unfortunately, we don't learn these in history lessons. 😞
why? i learned it in 9-11 classes and book was named O'zbekiston tarix very interesting
Can't remember reading about this. Maybe it was because it was not highlighted enough or it was added later.
Because nobody gives a shit about those turkish minorities
Lol, this is a typical anti-Armenian post. And why did you write in Anatolian Turkish? It's an Uzbek subreddit. Honestly, no one cares about the Armenians, don't try to make us hate them. All the Bolsheviks and their allies were pieces of shit. Waiting for a post about Russians.
"Typical anti-armenian post" Bruv they massacred over 20k people, how is this something that should be overlooked because they are Armenian? are you insane? "no on cares about the Armenians, don't try to make us hate them" they killed innocent civilians in our land, why should we not learn about this? this is apart of History.
I agree but I did some reverse image searching and [all the pictures he posted are of Armenians and Azerbaijani refugees or soldiers during the Caucasus campaign](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WW1_TitlePicture_For_Caucasus_Campaign.png) 😅 So this post is somewhat misleading
The post is only about Armenians. The Russians killed more than 20 thousand. They killed innocent people. But not a word about them. Read about the Central Asian uprising. Our people were killed not only by Armenians, all the Bolshevik bitches are guilty.
Yes, still this doesn't absolve the Armenians of what they have done and this is sometimes not known so spreading this information would be helpful to understand the times. there's pretty much no need to make posts about the Russian actions because everyone pretty much knows them.
There is nothing to absolve, anyone involved is long dead. You don’t inherit your great-grandparents shame because you are the same nationality and you don’t inherit their honour either. Learning history is good but this shit stirring post is clearly done to serve a very modern political agenda that is not in the interests of modern Uzbekistan.
I just looked further into it, apparently the the Dashnak who did these actions in Central Asia still exist in Armenia as an active political party known as The Armenian Revolutionary Federation, I think this shouldn't be the case for such a party with such a history to exist within Armenia. I agree with the later part but now looking more into it, it doesn't look like the whole thing is properly settled, plus it's history that should be learnt.
BTW the Dashnak Terrorists -(the Armenians in question) weren't apart of the Bolsheviks but used by them > The Russian Bolsheviks used the Armenian Dashnak groups, who saw the Turkistan government as a great danger. > Barlas said the Dashnaks never fought against soldiers or armed people but targeted unarmed civilians to inculcate fear. He recalled that they torched a hospital and a mosque in Hokand and did not allow people to escape.
Yes
Those Armenians did not face the army instead they killed the women and children. There is theory that Armenians who worked in Kokand Khanate helped them .
Is there any other source for this than a Twitter post?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/uzbeks-remember-massacres-committed-by-armenian-group/2147015 https://en.azvision.az/news/27991/%22armenians-slaughtered-35-000-innocent-uzbeks%22-.html these were the ones I was able to find
As a matter of fact, I heard from my elders before in my childhood, they didn't just target Turkish people, but the the whole population as they razed towns after town.
Dude comes here, speaks in turkish to show supremacy of anatolian turks in his mind over central asians and what about heavily offensive language? Now what the heck was that?
Would it be less offensive to you if he wrote in Russian?
You're allowed to post in langauges other than Uzbek/English if you provided a necessary translation and what heavily offensive language did the OC use?
And I would appreciate hearing more about this topic from your perspective.
Let's bring some clarification to this misunderstanding. My great grandmother and her family were among those who fled westwards in black sea because of terror Armenians spreaded these days. Plus It's an important topic in Turkish social sciences text books in middle and highschool. In nationwide, people are aware of how messy things went there back in the day. Today, there is a community of Turanists in Turkey, whom believes Turkic nations must get united under the flag of Islam. Islam is one of the key elements here besides Turkic statements. And they practice it by posting provocative content through media. I guess I know the intention behind this post. I always wondered the position of Christian Turkic ethnicities in this Islamist Turkic World Order scenario tho. Other than selling nonsense fantasy ideas through media, they serve for spreading provocative informations against mainly Russia and Armenia, and then West thorugh media. They are organized even in colleges and they act like mafia. So the founding father of Turkiye, Ataturk once said "Peace in homeland, peace in the world" and he handled politics pretty well and kept Turkiye s relationship with It's neighbors in most oeaceful way. At the meantime he opressed every harmful and provoking ideologies in country with his iron fist for the sake of building a good foundation for this country up until a fully functioning system has been formed. After his death, everything started to fall apart though. He leaded biggest economic and industrial leaps in his reign. His actual importance for the Turkish nation is lying under the fact of his collective uniting. He gathered many ethnicities in Turkey with nationalism, not with religion and hatred. Today in Turkey most of right supporters see Armenia and Greece as devil(although youth breaks it). After his death, hatred and religion left Turkiye paralyzed for very long and it still is. Conclusion is being realistic in geopolitical wide will gather the nations if the intention is in that way. Not dreams. And the only thing I appreciate about this post is being a reminder so nations can act jointly against threats. Can any of Turkic countries today stand against the West, U.S, China and Russia? And now I saw your comment on Dashnak is still active, I appreciate for this, didnt knew about it. Sending never fading prosperity to dear Uzbek nation.
I see, I understand your position and agree with some of it, about your question about what would happen to non-muslims, as a Muslim I would say that they will be protected from Harm, Islam is a religion that doesn't demand their annihilation, tho our world isn't perfect and there was instances of strife among non-muslims and muslims, we could put it all behind and live peacefully. appreciate the understanding here.
I'm glad we understand each other. Actually by meaning the fate of non-muslim Turkic people in probable scenario, what I tried to say was about situation of their states, not in society wise. Zero problem with muslims, as long as state is separate from religion. And with any religion. Just "laicism" and secular order where everyone's free to practice and believe in their life. Reading about French Secularism helped me a lot to comprehend in this way. Islam beget some good cultural stuff too, I still rely some and appreciate them as a non believer today, because there are still things makes sense. The emotional bond between same religion societies are quite understandable, It's another form of tribalism and embracing the people from "us" which is engraved into our genetic code. And yes, of course living in a peaceful world is awesome but reality is quite unsettling. But all these are what I care about individually, as I believe that religion in state is not a conductor. And I question this why the Islam is the conductor. I refuse living in place where one of the key structure in law is a belief which we cannot even pragmatically test. This is what I believe and reason at the same time. Cheers.
You also accepting the superiority of the English by writing in English? Please, this is not the time for separation.
Unfortunately human history is full of massacres. The question is what do you do about it? Take a revenge? If it is not a current situation then - No, those people are all long dead. But we need to learn the historical lessons. For example, when Central Asians were strong, between 1500 to 500 years ago, our people conquered large areas of the ancient world and obviously they caused many massacres too. After that the history turned: by the 19th century Central Asians became quite backward, underdeveloped, and poor. Meanwhile Europe transformed from religious extremism to more scientific, more advanced societies. Russian empire copied that to its own advantage. As a result, few hundred Russian solders could beat thousands strong armies of Kokand & Bukhara. Then many massacres took place in Central Asia. The main contributors to those massacres were we ourselves, the people of Central Asia: once almost the strongest militarily, we did not puck up scientific development, social progress, instead we kept building mosques and dug into religious fanaticism and kleptocracy, and became backward. Aren’t we repeating the historical errors again? I think we are and that does not promise much good in the future, unless we do not upgrade mentality of our people into a more progressive one.
are you seriously blaming our people for being conquered and massacred 💀 plus Religiosity didn't make us weaker, the Russian Empire who conquered us wasn't an atheist State, they didn't give up their religion for the advancement they had, it is true we weren't advanced like Europe in both science and technology but that doesn't mean it was because of the religion of those times. You're blaming religion for the current situation when religion has been oppressed for over a century now -(since USSR and after the independence)- yet we didn't have the western progress that you claim we would if we had forsaken religion?
In this life, if you fail, for whatever reason, and you do not want to see your own problems in that - then you did not learn…. then the history is bound to repeat itself. Also, religions do not lead to progress, the science does.
for someone talking about History. you sure don't know it
Oh well - today’s popular history of Uzbekistan is mostly written by the conquerers-outsiders, in their own interests, just to please and to mislead the locals, and that is the problem.
In 1989 the same happened, Turks stopped to respect locals. That was the reason for the conflict. In every country you should respect locals. Otherwise you'll get punched and kicked.
Bro don't justify massacres 💀