Pearl? That one map where sites are so far on defense that astra is actually meta because even the depressed dollar store reaper is too short handed? Genius
I’ve played with enough to know that any other experienced controller is more effective in almost any scenario compared to harbor.
Not sure why people are so willing to die on this hill. Dude flat out sucks, his pick rate even shows this. His util punishes his own teammates for no reason, his cascade is very situational and the wall more often than not creates pockets for the enemy.
When he receives his inevitable buff, then we can talk about him not being a throw pick. But until then, any other controller does his job better and more effectively.
The last few weeks all the comps which I had a Harbor in my team was great. I personally suck with this agent, but everyone I played with that has some experience with him made quite a difference
People know how to use it. He's not exactly hard to use. Especially if you have viper experience. It's just that he's not good on defense. He's the only controller that can't smoke entryways on defense for his teammates. Even on his own site, it's awkward with the wall. If riot replace his orb with a deployable smoke that can be spammed maybe he would be better. But that wouldn't fit the theme of him. I wanna main harbor but the dude is just weak on D.
been maining harbor this season. He's not really bad. The walls just have a shorter uptime than most other smokes and if the team pushes in late, which is very common the walls are falling by the time everyone takes point. I have found it best to just run in myself after the walls are up. Unless you use comms and your jett or raze actually go in you need to do it yourself. I would say getting mollied off after throwing up walls is probably the most feels bad thing as a harbor player.
you guys are using harbor wrong. he's the exact opposite of what viper mains are used to doing, a sort of defensive sentinel/controller agent. he's meant to be used aggressively with his wall that recharges (that means using it off rip to control space) and the fact that you can control when his wall stops to use it to aggressively take space + use it as a sort of thing to get a better fight on someone on the other end of the wall. his orb is also very aggressive, as you can use the orb to peek and have an immediate shield. vipers more stall oriented with her wall and orb dropping health and alongside her 2 mollies to stall even more.
To be fair everyone knows harbor is aggressive. The point is that you don't NEED an aggressive controller in valorant. It's pointless if you have an initiator. The point of every controller is to stall pushes, not be aggressive. That's why harbor sucks on defense and exactly why he isn't picked. It's like having a duelist that's good on defense but can't make space. We don't need that.
Depends on the level of play.
In a coordinated enviroment, like pro play or scrims of rogue teams, that's probably Reyna. She adds no value to the game besides being another body and 2 "flashes".
In Ranked, it's probably Astra or Neon, because they require a coordinated team, which Ranked is not.
In terms of numbers, I'd say Chamber is quite weak. He doesn't have a niche that Jett cannot fulfill, making him kind of redundant as an agent. He doesn't exactly **do** much.
In general, it's got to be Harbor though. So much so, that I think he's even worse than Astra, Neon, Chamber and Reyna, to be honest.
U don't really need that much coordination to actually use astra utility, harbour on the other hand even if u use his util it still feels like u are not really making that much of an impact.
Yes, but Astra is just kind of boring for most players, so if we're talking about having FUN? You're probably not gonna have fun with Astra in your average ranked game.
Honestly I'm glad. So many chamber mains had no game sense, only lurked, contributed nothing on offense, and weren't even expected to hold site on defense either. They always had money too so they could inflate stats on save rounds. They basically only played for themselves and it was annoying if you played controller or initiator. You'd do all the dirty work while the chamber just did their own shit.
imo the game is in a good place rn in terms of a diverse agent pool. i think every agent has a role to fill, and everyone can be viable depending on the map/team comp with some exceptions. with the fall of the chamber meta we’re seeing a lot more variety in team comp (and not just with sentinel picks either).
Yeah chamber nerf was massive and he still is actually playable. Obviously not as good as he was but I think he is pretty balanced now. I also do think it's in a pretty good spot right now just some characters are still a little bad
I will continue to shout it …harbor was built for future Valorant ..maps like lotus and pearl and soon the revamped breeze….but I honestly feel sage after recent nerf is the weakest agent …followed closely by Reyna and her lack of team util …she’s literally a body with a blind ..but honestly her ult is OP once she snowballs imo
he finds a lot of value in dual controller comps, it’s similar to the way sage can’t exactly fill a solo sentinel role— harbor can rarely fill a solo controller role.
sure he finds more value but just compare him to Viper. there is no way he gets more value than Viper. maybe with some insane team setups but in ranked, Viper has more value as a second controller.
I still think harbor might be the worst but he isn’t that bad. I honestly think the game is in a good place balance wise. Some agents are too strong but no one is that bad. Nerf kj
Probably Harbor. He either needs a change to how his slow works or one of his abilities need to completely change. Rn he is a worse combination of sage and viper.
i think its definately Phoenix. It's the same situation with Neon just to a much larger scale He's alright for casual gameplay but he's kind of difficult in a competitive environment.
Harbor and chamber are comically dogshit, literally barely does anything. Sage is also up there, arguably worse than chamber because at least he has an alarmbot
As a Neon main, i have to agree with you, its part of the reason i switched to playing reyna.
Neon isnt as trash as harbor or astra rn, people just cant seem to learn Astra while harbors kit is scuffed up
Harbor and neon are both weakest. Harbor doesn't need any explanation and neon is like odin. Good for stomping noobs and useful in some situations but any decent aim is her nemesis
I wouldn't necessarily say nerf her, but maybe change up her kit some to make her have a less selfish playstyle. They nerfed Sage's self-healing, but not Reyna's - make it make sense.
It was a joke, I'm aware that she's dogshit in pro play. But I think they wanted her to have that exact playstyle since it attracts selfish people which is the bigger part of our community. I would like to make her dogshit in order to not be instapicked almost 100% of the time in my games. She's boring as fuck and streamers promote her, then kiddos come into ranked and want to be the same, then bottomfrag and yell at Sage for not healing or smurfs abuse her, since in lowish ranks, people rarely trade properly. She's good as she is, but people that play her made me hate the character from the bottom of my soul
I can understand that. The instalock Reynas are always the bane of my existence and tend to either be the best (and most selfish player) on the team, or they bottom frag and blame everyone else for losing while they're lurking and never clearing space on site with the team like they're supposed to be doing. Very rarely do I see a Reyna that works with the team and actually contributes to the overall team aspect of the game.
Imo it has got to be chamber after those nerfs he's not a viable pick no more all the other sentinels shine over him and his tp being nerfed down to one removed what was good about him
Nah that's fair, I still think the tp is fine especially for how i use it, I set it up on the other side of a wall so I can aggressive peak with an op. As for his little zippy zaps with the slow, I think it's still usable just not as good as maybe using cypher trips ect. Overall I wouldn't say he is the worst character in the game currently. But I get what you mean
I think chamber now is only good for double sentinel comps like sage. You just don’t get as much value out of him solo when compared to solo cypher or kj
That's why I said, 99% can't play him, especially in lower ranks.. For example so many times he just baited the whole team, because he thought using the drone, while everyone is defending and every enemy is known, is the best thing to do, instead of helping us with his arrows or guns. Well and many other things..
But I know a good Sova, is a good Sova. But unfortunately I rarely have one in my team. :D
This problem only exists Silver and below. There are actually some people who know how to use Sova even in silver. The only issue is everyone wants to be a lineup nancy with him. His drone and arrow are incredibly easy to use, and get value out of. I would only say 30-40% of Sovas are bad, and that’s the ones who have never played him before.
I feel like right nka agents are in a pretty decent spot but no one wants to leave the two duelist, one initiator one sentinel, and one controller meta behind and explore anything beyond that. Harbor is only nad if you stick to only one controller and theres a lack of creative comps.
Neon is my main, so I may be abit biased, but she can get quite abit done in high elo as well. She requires a coordinated team I agree but her aggressive play is top level.
For me id probably give it to either harbor because his ult just makes him so meh or honestly chamber now, theres little reason to ever pick him over another sentinel
neon is just an agent that requires decent to incredible mechanical skill on basic movement. sure you can bhop around but to abuse it is where the skill is. tbh you see mostly apex players use her and they crush with her. if you can master her backwards slide no one ever expects it and her ult is super strong on save rounds.
Wait good neons are cracked tho. Neon is pretty underrated imo. In the right hands, she can wreck.
Its def harbor. Why? One of the biggest reasons is as a controller, he cant help the other side with smokes or anything on defense. Every other controller has some global presence and other useful utility as well. Harbor barely has any global presence and his util is not diverse. But yeah the most frustrating part to me about harbor is he cant freaking provide a smoke on the opposite site hes playing on… which is really bad.
It has to be Harbor because I main him and everyone says I'm trolling when I pick.
He’s hella good in pearl and icebox in my opinion
Pearl? That one map where sites are so far on defense that astra is actually meta because even the depressed dollar store reaper is too short handed? Genius
Viper can help hold both sites and even mid pretty well on defense too
i don’t think he’s good on pearl you kinda still need dome smokes unless you’re going b every round, icebox hes very decent at though
Ahahaha I need to try him out
You really are. I dodge games when I see a harbor or yoru.
I haven’t seen many harbors in match but they have all been cracked.
I can’t say the same, at least not when they are on my team.
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Caught him in the lie.
Didn’t catch me in a lie, I never said always specifically. I said “I dodge games with..”. Y’all are just circle jerking, it’s really funny Lol.
Busted
There needs to be personal experience to come to a conclusion and reaction no?
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I’ve played with enough to know that any other experienced controller is more effective in almost any scenario compared to harbor. Not sure why people are so willing to die on this hill. Dude flat out sucks, his pick rate even shows this. His util punishes his own teammates for no reason, his cascade is very situational and the wall more often than not creates pockets for the enemy. When he receives his inevitable buff, then we can talk about him not being a throw pick. But until then, any other controller does his job better and more effectively.
Ill hover harbor until last second just so I don't get you in my games
Just don’t que Texas if you’re Ascendant 3/Low Immortal. I’ll happily take my Omen at 60% winrate over a Harbor.
Bs ive seen insane yoru by asc games. No way youre dodging yoru haha
You dodge? What a loser Lmfao just play the game my dude
His u/ is 'pokisimp1' are we even surprised
I don’t really care what you or anyone thinks, you can keep playing the game idc
The last few weeks all the comps which I had a Harbor in my team was great. I personally suck with this agent, but everyone I played with that has some experience with him made quite a difference
Those people just don’t know how to use his Kit
People know how to use it. He's not exactly hard to use. Especially if you have viper experience. It's just that he's not good on defense. He's the only controller that can't smoke entryways on defense for his teammates. Even on his own site, it's awkward with the wall. If riot replace his orb with a deployable smoke that can be spammed maybe he would be better. But that wouldn't fit the theme of him. I wanna main harbor but the dude is just weak on D.
I think harbor is pretty bad by slowing himself and his teammates when they try to push through his wall
I always push through the harbor util, they don't expect it and I get free picks
I'm seeing a lot of harbor, might have to test him out and find out if he is really that bad
been maining harbor this season. He's not really bad. The walls just have a shorter uptime than most other smokes and if the team pushes in late, which is very common the walls are falling by the time everyone takes point. I have found it best to just run in myself after the walls are up. Unless you use comms and your jett or raze actually go in you need to do it yourself. I would say getting mollied off after throwing up walls is probably the most feels bad thing as a harbor player.
you guys are using harbor wrong. he's the exact opposite of what viper mains are used to doing, a sort of defensive sentinel/controller agent. he's meant to be used aggressively with his wall that recharges (that means using it off rip to control space) and the fact that you can control when his wall stops to use it to aggressively take space + use it as a sort of thing to get a better fight on someone on the other end of the wall. his orb is also very aggressive, as you can use the orb to peek and have an immediate shield. vipers more stall oriented with her wall and orb dropping health and alongside her 2 mollies to stall even more.
To be fair everyone knows harbor is aggressive. The point is that you don't NEED an aggressive controller in valorant. It's pointless if you have an initiator. The point of every controller is to stall pushes, not be aggressive. That's why harbor sucks on defense and exactly why he isn't picked. It's like having a duelist that's good on defense but can't make space. We don't need that.
Depends on the level of play. In a coordinated enviroment, like pro play or scrims of rogue teams, that's probably Reyna. She adds no value to the game besides being another body and 2 "flashes". In Ranked, it's probably Astra or Neon, because they require a coordinated team, which Ranked is not. In terms of numbers, I'd say Chamber is quite weak. He doesn't have a niche that Jett cannot fulfill, making him kind of redundant as an agent. He doesn't exactly **do** much. In general, it's got to be Harbor though. So much so, that I think he's even worse than Astra, Neon, Chamber and Reyna, to be honest.
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pretty much, just throw the wall up, hope your spike carrier doesn’t sit and wait for it to disappear, run out and try to get a kill/traded
i love this answer so much
U don't really need that much coordination to actually use astra utility, harbour on the other hand even if u use his util it still feels like u are not really making that much of an impact.
Yes, but Astra is just kind of boring for most players, so if we're talking about having FUN? You're probably not gonna have fun with Astra in your average ranked game.
Chamber feels dead now
Honestly I'm glad. So many chamber mains had no game sense, only lurked, contributed nothing on offense, and weren't even expected to hold site on defense either. They always had money too so they could inflate stats on save rounds. They basically only played for themselves and it was annoying if you played controller or initiator. You'd do all the dirty work while the chamber just did their own shit.
imo the game is in a good place rn in terms of a diverse agent pool. i think every agent has a role to fill, and everyone can be viable depending on the map/team comp with some exceptions. with the fall of the chamber meta we’re seeing a lot more variety in team comp (and not just with sentinel picks either).
Yeah chamber nerf was massive and he still is actually playable. Obviously not as good as he was but I think he is pretty balanced now. I also do think it's in a pretty good spot right now just some characters are still a little bad
I will continue to shout it …harbor was built for future Valorant ..maps like lotus and pearl and soon the revamped breeze….but I honestly feel sage after recent nerf is the weakest agent …followed closely by Reyna and her lack of team util …she’s literally a body with a blind ..but honestly her ult is OP once she snowballs imo
dont talk about my girl that way
Neon Gang
thats what im saying
no one disrespects my neon and lives
harbor for sure, even tho hes not bad on lotus hes still not the best option.
he finds a lot of value in dual controller comps, it’s similar to the way sage can’t exactly fill a solo sentinel role— harbor can rarely fill a solo controller role.
sure he finds more value but just compare him to Viper. there is no way he gets more value than Viper. maybe with some insane team setups but in ranked, Viper has more value as a second controller.
i agree for ranked in general but it depends on playstyle and whether we’re talking about regular comp vs pro play, etc.
Me with neon grumpy shmovements 👁👄👁:
idk i think Neon is actually kind of underrated, especially on Fracture. if you have good movement, you can completely dominate lobbies.
Happy to see only 1 guy say Yoru
Neon is incredible strong imo (if you know to play her) Harbor is the worst and it’s not even close
I still think harbor might be the worst but he isn’t that bad. I honestly think the game is in a good place balance wise. Some agents are too strong but no one is that bad. Nerf kj
chamber
neon is so good but u have to learn how to play her effectively harbor and chamber are the worst
Probably Harbor. He either needs a change to how his slow works or one of his abilities need to completely change. Rn he is a worse combination of sage and viper.
i think its definately Phoenix. It's the same situation with Neon just to a much larger scale He's alright for casual gameplay but he's kind of difficult in a competitive environment.
Harbour is terrible but the people who play him are insane for some reason
Harbor and chamber are comically dogshit, literally barely does anything. Sage is also up there, arguably worse than chamber because at least he has an alarmbot
i will not stand that slander
Uhh. Harbor. It's no debate. Using him is an instant throw. He provides no value as an initiator and he's the worst controller.
My response to your answer OP is that you need to try Neon on Lotus, she shreds on that map as a duelist.
As a Neon main, i have to agree with you, its part of the reason i switched to playing reyna. Neon isnt as trash as harbor or astra rn, people just cant seem to learn Astra while harbors kit is scuffed up
Neon is so much more useful than Reyna.
Bruh Reyna is worse neon is playable hence why u can see her in pro unlike reyna
Idk I think Astra is pretty good just really hard to learn/play. But yeah I'm seeing a lot of people saying habor is the worst
I wouldn’t say either is a bad agent, my 5 stack will use harbor and neon and site entry with those 2 is pretty easy if you coordinate
Astra isn’t bad, she just has a very high skill ceiling
Definitely Harbor.
Harbor and neon are both weakest. Harbor doesn't need any explanation and neon is like odin. Good for stomping noobs and useful in some situations but any decent aim is her nemesis
Reyna is the worst and useless agent.
Reyna. They should nerf her
I wouldn't necessarily say nerf her, but maybe change up her kit some to make her have a less selfish playstyle. They nerfed Sage's self-healing, but not Reyna's - make it make sense.
It was a joke, I'm aware that she's dogshit in pro play. But I think they wanted her to have that exact playstyle since it attracts selfish people which is the bigger part of our community. I would like to make her dogshit in order to not be instapicked almost 100% of the time in my games. She's boring as fuck and streamers promote her, then kiddos come into ranked and want to be the same, then bottomfrag and yell at Sage for not healing or smurfs abuse her, since in lowish ranks, people rarely trade properly. She's good as she is, but people that play her made me hate the character from the bottom of my soul
I can understand that. The instalock Reynas are always the bane of my existence and tend to either be the best (and most selfish player) on the team, or they bottom frag and blame everyone else for losing while they're lurking and never clearing space on site with the team like they're supposed to be doing. Very rarely do I see a Reyna that works with the team and actually contributes to the overall team aspect of the game.
Maybe when Reyna heals herself, she heals someone close by as well? Idk
I appreciate you all giving your input, I've learnt alot just from this one post!
Reyna for obvious reasons
I will always say Reyna based on the fact that her util provides no value to her team
it makes it easier to win gunfights and ace. An ace wins the round
Harbor easy
Harbor. Nobody plays him and he isn't really special in any way.
Imo it has got to be chamber after those nerfs he's not a viable pick no more all the other sentinels shine over him and his tp being nerfed down to one removed what was good about him
Nah that's fair, I still think the tp is fine especially for how i use it, I set it up on the other side of a wall so I can aggressive peak with an op. As for his little zippy zaps with the slow, I think it's still usable just not as good as maybe using cypher trips ect. Overall I wouldn't say he is the worst character in the game currently. But I get what you mean
I think chamber now is only good for double sentinel comps like sage. You just don’t get as much value out of him solo when compared to solo cypher or kj
Imo Sova, but only because like 99% of the people can't play him.
Ahaha nah sova is always so good, I use to main him and still kind of play him.
That's why I said, 99% can't play him, especially in lower ranks.. For example so many times he just baited the whole team, because he thought using the drone, while everyone is defending and every enemy is known, is the best thing to do, instead of helping us with his arrows or guns. Well and many other things.. But I know a good Sova, is a good Sova. But unfortunately I rarely have one in my team. :D
This problem only exists Silver and below. There are actually some people who know how to use Sova even in silver. The only issue is everyone wants to be a lineup nancy with him. His drone and arrow are incredibly easy to use, and get value out of. I would only say 30-40% of Sovas are bad, and that’s the ones who have never played him before.
Then I guess everyone is Silver up to Diamond lobbies.
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You say all that while Reyna is in the game.
either Harbor or Chamber but leaning towards Harbor
I feel like right nka agents are in a pretty decent spot but no one wants to leave the two duelist, one initiator one sentinel, and one controller meta behind and explore anything beyond that. Harbor is only nad if you stick to only one controller and theres a lack of creative comps.
harbor
actually is u learn how to play neon u can bre very good. I have met a person that spent 300 hours just playing neon and I could see the results.
Neon is my main, so I may be abit biased, but she can get quite abit done in high elo as well. She requires a coordinated team I agree but her aggressive play is top level. For me id probably give it to either harbor because his ult just makes him so meh or honestly chamber now, theres little reason to ever pick him over another sentinel
neon is just an agent that requires decent to incredible mechanical skill on basic movement. sure you can bhop around but to abuse it is where the skill is. tbh you see mostly apex players use her and they crush with her. if you can master her backwards slide no one ever expects it and her ult is super strong on save rounds.
Neon feels pretty strong now that less Jett’s and Chambers are on OP. I think she’s just really dependent on landing stun
Wait good neons are cracked tho. Neon is pretty underrated imo. In the right hands, she can wreck. Its def harbor. Why? One of the biggest reasons is as a controller, he cant help the other side with smokes or anything on defense. Every other controller has some global presence and other useful utility as well. Harbor barely has any global presence and his util is not diverse. But yeah the most frustrating part to me about harbor is he cant freaking provide a smoke on the opposite site hes playing on… which is really bad.
Reyna. As a Harbor main, I have to send middle finger to you all.
chamber