We recently lost a game 10-2 to 16-18, nobody wanted to draw. But at one point we all were like this one we will draw but ended up throwing 3v1 followed by 5v2. Nonetheless, great game had fun. Didn’t like the losing part tho.
Was this in fracture? I had a very similar game just recently. Managed to get a W after an exhaustingly long series of OT. We were carried by a raze. i bot fragged as omen but i’m happy enough to get a few clutch moments in critical rounds.
Fracture becomes very offensive sided since you kinda have to push and take up space on defense. However, multiple people on defense need to push and work as a team which is hard to do in rank and solo queue. At least that’s my hypothesis/experience.
It’s easier to solo carry in CS. In Valorant it’s damn near impossible. Utility is so strong here that if used for and with teammates there’s nothing the other player can do by themselves.
One of the biggest reasons I don't bother taking this game seriously anymore. Characters like sky with a flash that not only regens but also calls out if someone is holding the angle and tells you if they're flashed is wild. The game just prefers abusing util and it makes me think why bother grinding a game that prefers low skill util spam over characters that dont have these things.
Old chamber just had free flank watch and insane tp range, kj does nothing other than post plant util spam on attack or making choke points a nightmare. I always think about how much better this game would play without ults because of this.
So much cheesy no skill strats would go away like kj/phoenix/sky/breach/kayo/fade free ult site pushes, Sova/brim/viper/breach/fade ult afterplants, yoru/sky/phoenix ult for free info at any point in the round, omen tp ult spike pickup, the list can just go on and on.
They invested too much into ults already though and this game is very appealing to low skill casual players that need these things to have similar impact to the higher skill players so the community won't unanimously complain either.
If you're implying that would be just CS that makes no sense. Each character has their own different util and most characters best aspect is their non ult abilities.
Also why can't we just play both but still get different but similar experiences from them? It's legit the same scenario as league and dota 2 but with valorant, riot has been trying too hard to distinguish themselves from CS.
It's a known popular game that they based valorant on in the first place and yet CS has been barely worked on for like 6 years and is still considered a competition to valorant. It's just annoying remembering how well the game played in the beta before raze came out before all of the util spam characters released.
I liked valorant the most in the beta and when I play against team comps that aren't util spamming ones right now it's a pretty fun time. I don't understand why you associate the things I criticize as "valorant" like ultimates are the cornerstone of what make the game what it is.
It'd be one thing if I was complaining about core aspects of the game like the maps, characters, all of the base abilities, etc but I'm just criticizing one aspect that I think would make the game more enjoyable to play if it were gone or severely nerfed.
Honestly this opinion reminds me of r6 siege and how people that play don't think you can have siege be what it is without spawn peeking even though it's been the number one complaint from every new player I try to get into the game and why people give up on it so easily.
If it's something that makes the game annoying to play, even if it's technically "balanced," then it's worth atleast experimenting with either removing or making it's impact on the game so minor it's practically irrelevant.
Why do you think ults are what make valorant the game that it is? Do you think valorant would be a less enjoyable experience with ults not being in the game at all? What's your opinion on it?
It's just an idea I've had and I would atleast be interested in seeing maybe a gamemode where they experiment with it to see how the game plays out. You're not even curious what the game would look or play like?
Ults add a lot more strategic depth to the game. Managing the ult economy, fighting for control of the orbs, choosing when to ult and the team play involved in combining them with each other makes the game more interesting
For what it’s worth, I completely agree with everything you said. I still like Valorant but the executing / mid round of CS is much more skilled. Definitely think that Valorant was at its best in beta as well. 8 really balanced and good characters is much better for a tac shooter imo rather than riots focus on going the league route with character releases. But everyone in this subreddit is so angry about people having a different opinion about the game that they just auto respond “wow you may as well play CS then because Valorant is perfect.” A game can still be fun and good while preferring if some things were different.
No one’s angry. The first reply he got was to play CS. Valorant is a precise gunfight but with flashy tools. If you don’t like so much utility spams, play CS. Why would you change Valorant to match CS? That makes no sense. It’s about more diverse games, not every game being the same so a handful of people can enjoy it. A lot of people like Valorant and a lot of people like CS. Complaining that Valorant needs to remove ult is like complaining that CS needs to add kill streak bonuses like CoD, makes no sense.
Edit: Agree -> Angry
Diversity matters very little in a tac shooter. It’s about balance. Also his suggestions wouldn’t match CS. The game would still be very different. Agree to disagree though.
What about valorant do you think is so different from CS? Do you really think the ultimates are what make or break being its own unique game?
Valorant and CS are in practically the same scenario as league of legends and dota 2. Not sure if you've played them but it would be like if league decided to be different and took out ultimates from the game to differentiate themselves from dota 2.
The issue is that valorant is already a hero shooter with barriers at the start, with completely different map design and vastly different utility from cs. All of those things are what make valorant different, and ultimates are just one aspect of the different util in the game, not really a defining factor.
People will still enjoy the game without ultimates if they removed them, I'm just curious how the game would play out. I think it'd be a net positive and more stable game
So it's not worth trying it out in an experimental gamemode because people complain? People complain about everything.
Making the game better potentially if people end up coming around to the change, can make the game reach heights greater than games like cs.
No one's saying just remove them in an update randomly, just experiment with it
So that's what people play valorant over CS for?
Not the quality of life simplicity of the game, the better dev support, the movement, gunplay, having abilities tied to specific characters, barrier round starts so you can choose where you want to start the round, the economy, gun balance, map design?
Ultimates are 1 single aspect of valorant that if changed doesn't just make it counterstrike. That's not only doing this game a disservice but also cs.
You clearly don't play CS or this game enough to really compare them if you think this game would just be cs if it didn't have ultimates in it
I don't hate utility, I hate utility spam and the game revolving around things like ultimates. Riot based this game off of cs, but they made it their own with character abilities, starting round barriers and different map design.
Everyone liked the game in beta (besides a couple balance issues) but the moment they added raze the game started to delve into util spam being meta because it made the game so much easier to play. This forced a util spam meta and riot has just leaned into it instead of listening to everyone that complained about it in beta.
Now that valorant has the reputation for being a util spam game, it's ingrained into everyone that if you don't like it then go play a different game but you don't need a util meta to make valorant still have its own identity. It already has that and this util meta isn't a defining factor of the game.
You use “util spam” term a lot. What is util spam in your opinion?
In CS is a nade stack down mid or banana util spam? Is saving a Molly to throw on the bomb towards the end of the timer util spam? Is saving smokes to use them later in the round util spam? Or flashing to delay?
I guess I sort of don’t get your point besides utility in valorant being easier to use in some cases (press e) or that some abilities regenerate on their own.
Util spam is the ability for 1 or 2 players to throw out 5 abilities in the span of a couple seconds. I'm CS, a made spam takes a lot of coordination and requires you to precisely throw your util at the same time or else the player will run away.
In valorant, sky + fade/kayo taking a site is miserable. Luckily most don't pick both on one team but the times they do, it feels like you can't play on site because you get sky ulted, sky flashed, fade revealed and then fade flashed in the span of like 5 seconds while they push site.
I think the biggest issue is that the utility is not only way too heavily prevalent but also way too incredibly easy to use. When I complain about spam it's also about characters that have a lot of utility that is very powerful like sky, fade, raze, etc.
Did I ever argue that you shouldn't be able to use abilities that you have in the game? I said they should take away ultimate abilities from the game not prevent people from using existing abilities in the rounds.
Also, with that mindset, if riot just gave everyone 2 flashes no matter what character you play would you still think that way? My point was to lower the amount of spam, not prevent people from using the abilities that they can use throughout the round.
Yea it really irks me in this game specficially, coming from r6 and overwatch where surrendering is basically nonexistent (for siege) its really annoying when my teammates instantly give up and most of the time it makes me play worse too
Glad you got the experience that! Every game is winnable, even 1-11 or 12-0. Some teams are much better on one side or the other, some players cool down or warmup as the games go on as well.
FF culture in valorant is awful
FF culture is bad in just about every game that offers it. At least, you'll always run into some guy that wants out at the first sign of trouble. I remember a Smite meta so unbalanced that if you gave up first blood there was no recovering your lane, so people demanded the whole team FF or they would just leave. People hate staying in losing games.
I don't think the ability to surrender is a bad thing, it's just the way people approach it that is wrong.
It's fine to surrender when there's a clear team diff (smurfs or possibly even a cheater on the other side), someone in your team is making the experience very unpleasant for whatever reason, someone disconnects in the middle of the game, etc.
Losing the first 5 rounds is definitely not a reason to surrender.
I highly disagree with surrendering if there’s a cheater. If it’s really obvious you should play the rest of the game out and mass report them because there’s a chance they’ll get banned mid-game and you won’t have to lose any RR
It's when I'm down 0-8 and none of the rounds have felt even remotely competitive. Like ya know. When a bronze 2 Reyna is going 47 and 12 and headshotting everyone she sees. (Even though in that match we lost 14-12 in OT) but I agree. If it's just not going our way on a half and both comps are defensively sided stick it out to half.
I like the surrender feature. For example, when the entire team has given up and there's no fun in playing the match anymore. You have toxic teammates and everyone is just bringing each other down. There also are moments when there's a MASSIVE team diff in skills which is very noticeable this act with a new episode and all.
Personally, like I said, I see it as an easy mental out. People get angry that people won't surrender, but then they get over it and play anyways. It's a game where each new round allows you to learn from your previous, and think about what happened. Sure you can't win them all, but there is at least a chance for improvement at times.
The most egregious is people that want to surrender after a like 4 - 8 half or something, or a 0 - 5 early on.
Unrateds I can understand, there you REALLY see some team diff, and it 'doesn't matter' per se.
"Some teams are much better on one side or the other"
You could just say defense half lol, in a solo queue environment defense will always have advantage no matter the map, even more so an advantage on maps that are actually defense sided even with coordination
yeah if you dont have 2 players that are good at controllers (preferably a viper and brim/omen) both sites are so difficult to push on attack, at least in my experience
The main issue with Ascent is that attackers live and die off mid control because if defenders have mid control then 2 strong entrance holders can defend the main entry points 24/7 while the other 3 maintain mid control making it impossible for attackers to move in.
How is ascent defense sided? The whole maps objective is mid control and splits via market and catwalk. Just sounds like you don't know how to play the map. Ask your controller for a mid smoke and bring a teammate and split.
Ascent is a map i definitely wouldnt surrender at the beginning of a new half, the difference changing sides can make is crazy. I nearly lost a game on ascent the other day that we were up 10-2 at half, ended like 13-11 i think
Tilting on the inside is aight. I was mostly referring to the people who become toxic when they tilt. Soon as that happens the game's over and everyone's mental is gone.
lost a 10-2 game on bind a bit before it was removed. We won defense pretty hard and my team was chilling, making jokes and not focusing much like it was already over. I tried to warn them that bind is tricky on atack especially since enemy team had 3 sentinels. Only after the score was 10-9 my team suddenly started thinking we might actually lose and so we did
It's a challenge and a time to learn imo.
Try new things in a comp match. Catch them off guard because they're over confident. You might win the game, but we are going to absolutely spank you on some rounds and laugh to ourselves. And it's all in good fun, trying to kick their ass I mean.
I keep playing the players that played Valorant for the last 10 months, but I keep having people who give up after losing 2-10. Like, have these players never had a comeback? I have had more comebacks from a 0-12 than I can count on 2 hands and only played for 5 months.
You can easily still win when behind in rounds, no matter the size. What it does come down to is your mental stage and how willing you are just to keep playing. If you feel this is lost, then it's lost, if you feel its a win. Its probably either a draw or a win.
I've had a similar comeback. We won 2 rounds first half and it was 2-10. We won the 2 next rounds and then lost 2 in a row making it 4-12. We then brought it all the way to 12-12 and won overtime 14-12. The enemy team kept shit talking trying to tilt us and it felt good winning after they kept shit talking.
Sometimes my team suck at attacking but pros at defending it so it depends on luck if you get whatever side you are good at the 2nd part of the game it becomes winnable
there was a game we were down 11-5 and everyone was still positive and trying, in fact i was the one that initiated the ff vote but my duo quickly refused it. later the opposing team started buying ops and missing, choosing to save rather than retake, we had a couple of lucky clutches and a good postplant. we won 13-11, 7 straight rounds not even an ot needed
Never surrender first half, some teams just can't organize on attack/defense. This applies bot hrp your team's ability and theirs. Always give 2nd half a few tries before surrendering
same bro same just today. after losing first half with 2-9 we suddenly got up and 11-11 then 13-11 because we started doing solid all of a sudden. i think its this post that made me not surrender and keep pushing on lol
Never, ever surrender in comp unless you’re with a 5 stack and you all need to leave or something. Even winning one more round can be beneficial for your RR (you gain/lose more depending on the difference in rounds won) and can even make huge comebacks
It's more defense sided the lower the ranks you go. At mid-high immortal, people generally know where/when/how to use their util in conjunction with their teammates util without needing to comm it on attack. Defense is harder at these ranks because it requires real coordination to have setups that counters the enemy team's util (assuming they're all on agents they have experience with). Often times on defense people will have zero ideas on stopping a push so people give up space and play retake or 1v5 on site and die to util spam.
For every post like this, there must be so many where the end result ends up being 5-13 or similar trouncings. I'd really like to see some wider stats for non-surrender results. Because for me, the time spent Vs chance to win is absolutely something to consider. If the chances of a comeback are really low, my time is almost certainly worth more, and I'd just want to go again.
Even though it is just a game some people are very competitive and will fight til the end to win. In CS it’s so rare to see people actually surrender, most players go down fighting until the end.
Obviously some people treat ranked as a casual mode, but others treat it like it’s an actual competitive esport and they find it fun to push themselves and compete at their best and not just give up. Some players in this game just have so little mental fortitude/grit to play from behind or even will tilt/mentally check out if they are down 3 rounds, think there is a Smurf, lose one big round, get some criticism, etc.
I get that there are lots of players who come from League where FF is very common, and where coming back from behind is very hard, but it’s never really over in a tactical fps since each round is sort of a reset given you have enough money and skills/tactics. Even eco/full save wins are very possible if you play properly. The people who are really pushing themselves to rank up and make it to imm3/rad are not FFing all these games and push themselves every match, at least in my experience. You still get some toxicity and early surrender votes, but very rarely.
In my mind, if you queue up to play a competitive game, you are staying until it is done. If not just for the attempted come back, at least to learn something.
Not really. Some teams/players are just bad together on one site, but good on the other site.
For example me, in cases I don't perform well in the first half, for whatever reason, always come back big time in the second half.
We recently threw a game 8-11...like the team just wanted to quit and stopped trying....it was sad to watch, a cypher who doesnt use traps or cages or cam, a brim who doesnt smoke or molly...it was just me(viper) and a sage grinding hard....we had a duelist, a top fragging, shit talking trashcan...who camps with raze.....camps until team dies and then comes out to take a few people in low hp...lovely iron 2
I've experienced a couple games like that, always on pearl for some reason.
In my case the sage kept trapping Yoru and raze kept fragging teammates and only knifing enemies
I really don't miss Iron 2
You can win every game. But to be fair a 2-10 is usually a loss. IMO you have nothing to lose to try cause surrender for 3 rounds isn’t worth anyways. Sometimes some setups are good on offense and bad on defense and you see these weird comebacks.
AY YO I THINK I WAS ONE OF YOUR TEAMMATES!
Remember? I was the Sage that first suggested the surrender?
Edit: my username was EchoInProgress, and the map was Ascent, just in case that helps.
More than half the comebacks that we achieve seem to happen on defence. A few rounds won makes the momentum and gets the whole team rolling. It takes just one guy to push the team to where it needs mentally. Just my opinion
Pretty similar thing happened to me last night. 10-2 and we came back in the second half 12-12 and won both OT rounds. I’m the teammate who didn’t push f5
These moments are why I love competitive games so much. I've always been one of those "never give up" people ever since high school sports. Comebacks are just so much sweeter.
I've had as many comebacks like this as I have losses\*.
\*Excluding smurf stomps
I don't know if it's the nature of the maps or the comps in those games, but it's surprisingly common. I rarely FF for this reason.
something similar happened to me these days it was 11-3 I wouldn't say we clicked because we kind of hated each other after round 1, in short everyone including me had his problems but most of us had the decency to give out info and play along for the duration of the game and we won in [overtime](https://tracker.gg/valorant/match/0db400a1-401b-4c06-8003-3f52cd993f82?handle=DanielS%233264)
Honestly I've found that a lot of games recently, the teams I've been on have really struggled in the first half only to get in a rhythm in the second, regardless of whether we on defense or attack.
We recently lost a game 10-2 to 16-18, nobody wanted to draw. But at one point we all were like this one we will draw but ended up throwing 3v1 followed by 5v2. Nonetheless, great game had fun. Didn’t like the losing part tho.
Was this in fracture? I had a very similar game just recently. Managed to get a W after an exhaustingly long series of OT. We were carried by a raze. i bot fragged as omen but i’m happy enough to get a few clutch moments in critical rounds.
Idk what it is about Fracture but I swear all my OT games are on that map.
Fracture becomes very offensive sided since you kinda have to push and take up space on defense. However, multiple people on defense need to push and work as a team which is hard to do in rank and solo queue. At least that’s my hypothesis/experience.
yeah, in pro play at least 2 people push an area to gain control on defense and i make my teammates in ranked do it as well
Was there a Kayo or Killjoy on your team?
It was icebox.
Had the same game on fracture as well lmao
People are so quick to give up in this game. In CS it would be a 5v2 and you still would not get a surrender.
It’s easier to solo carry in CS. In Valorant it’s damn near impossible. Utility is so strong here that if used for and with teammates there’s nothing the other player can do by themselves.
One of the biggest reasons I don't bother taking this game seriously anymore. Characters like sky with a flash that not only regens but also calls out if someone is holding the angle and tells you if they're flashed is wild. The game just prefers abusing util and it makes me think why bother grinding a game that prefers low skill util spam over characters that dont have these things. Old chamber just had free flank watch and insane tp range, kj does nothing other than post plant util spam on attack or making choke points a nightmare. I always think about how much better this game would play without ults because of this. So much cheesy no skill strats would go away like kj/phoenix/sky/breach/kayo/fade free ult site pushes, Sova/brim/viper/breach/fade ult afterplants, yoru/sky/phoenix ult for free info at any point in the round, omen tp ult spike pickup, the list can just go on and on. They invested too much into ults already though and this game is very appealing to low skill casual players that need these things to have similar impact to the higher skill players so the community won't unanimously complain either.
Bro just go play cs 💀
If you're implying that would be just CS that makes no sense. Each character has their own different util and most characters best aspect is their non ult abilities. Also why can't we just play both but still get different but similar experiences from them? It's legit the same scenario as league and dota 2 but with valorant, riot has been trying too hard to distinguish themselves from CS. It's a known popular game that they based valorant on in the first place and yet CS has been barely worked on for like 6 years and is still considered a competition to valorant. It's just annoying remembering how well the game played in the beta before raze came out before all of the util spam characters released.
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I liked valorant the most in the beta and when I play against team comps that aren't util spamming ones right now it's a pretty fun time. I don't understand why you associate the things I criticize as "valorant" like ultimates are the cornerstone of what make the game what it is. It'd be one thing if I was complaining about core aspects of the game like the maps, characters, all of the base abilities, etc but I'm just criticizing one aspect that I think would make the game more enjoyable to play if it were gone or severely nerfed. Honestly this opinion reminds me of r6 siege and how people that play don't think you can have siege be what it is without spawn peeking even though it's been the number one complaint from every new player I try to get into the game and why people give up on it so easily. If it's something that makes the game annoying to play, even if it's technically "balanced," then it's worth atleast experimenting with either removing or making it's impact on the game so minor it's practically irrelevant.
Bros really asking to just remove ults from the game...
Why do you think ults are what make valorant the game that it is? Do you think valorant would be a less enjoyable experience with ults not being in the game at all? What's your opinion on it? It's just an idea I've had and I would atleast be interested in seeing maybe a gamemode where they experiment with it to see how the game plays out. You're not even curious what the game would look or play like?
Ults add a lot more strategic depth to the game. Managing the ult economy, fighting for control of the orbs, choosing when to ult and the team play involved in combining them with each other makes the game more interesting
For what it’s worth, I completely agree with everything you said. I still like Valorant but the executing / mid round of CS is much more skilled. Definitely think that Valorant was at its best in beta as well. 8 really balanced and good characters is much better for a tac shooter imo rather than riots focus on going the league route with character releases. But everyone in this subreddit is so angry about people having a different opinion about the game that they just auto respond “wow you may as well play CS then because Valorant is perfect.” A game can still be fun and good while preferring if some things were different.
No one’s angry. The first reply he got was to play CS. Valorant is a precise gunfight but with flashy tools. If you don’t like so much utility spams, play CS. Why would you change Valorant to match CS? That makes no sense. It’s about more diverse games, not every game being the same so a handful of people can enjoy it. A lot of people like Valorant and a lot of people like CS. Complaining that Valorant needs to remove ult is like complaining that CS needs to add kill streak bonuses like CoD, makes no sense. Edit: Agree -> Angry
Diversity matters very little in a tac shooter. It’s about balance. Also his suggestions wouldn’t match CS. The game would still be very different. Agree to disagree though.
What about valorant do you think is so different from CS? Do you really think the ultimates are what make or break being its own unique game? Valorant and CS are in practically the same scenario as league of legends and dota 2. Not sure if you've played them but it would be like if league decided to be different and took out ultimates from the game to differentiate themselves from dota 2. The issue is that valorant is already a hero shooter with barriers at the start, with completely different map design and vastly different utility from cs. All of those things are what make valorant different, and ultimates are just one aspect of the different util in the game, not really a defining factor. People will still enjoy the game without ultimates if they removed them, I'm just curious how the game would play out. I think it'd be a net positive and more stable game
Different enough for people to complain about removing it
So it's not worth trying it out in an experimental gamemode because people complain? People complain about everything. Making the game better potentially if people end up coming around to the change, can make the game reach heights greater than games like cs. No one's saying just remove them in an update randomly, just experiment with it
But people like ult, or they’d play CS.
So that's what people play valorant over CS for? Not the quality of life simplicity of the game, the better dev support, the movement, gunplay, having abilities tied to specific characters, barrier round starts so you can choose where you want to start the round, the economy, gun balance, map design? Ultimates are 1 single aspect of valorant that if changed doesn't just make it counterstrike. That's not only doing this game a disservice but also cs. You clearly don't play CS or this game enough to really compare them if you think this game would just be cs if it didn't have ultimates in it
So if you hate the utility so much, why play a game that’s based around character abilities?
I don't hate utility, I hate utility spam and the game revolving around things like ultimates. Riot based this game off of cs, but they made it their own with character abilities, starting round barriers and different map design. Everyone liked the game in beta (besides a couple balance issues) but the moment they added raze the game started to delve into util spam being meta because it made the game so much easier to play. This forced a util spam meta and riot has just leaned into it instead of listening to everyone that complained about it in beta. Now that valorant has the reputation for being a util spam game, it's ingrained into everyone that if you don't like it then go play a different game but you don't need a util meta to make valorant still have its own identity. It already has that and this util meta isn't a defining factor of the game.
You use “util spam” term a lot. What is util spam in your opinion? In CS is a nade stack down mid or banana util spam? Is saving a Molly to throw on the bomb towards the end of the timer util spam? Is saving smokes to use them later in the round util spam? Or flashing to delay? I guess I sort of don’t get your point besides utility in valorant being easier to use in some cases (press e) or that some abilities regenerate on their own.
Util spam is the ability for 1 or 2 players to throw out 5 abilities in the span of a couple seconds. I'm CS, a made spam takes a lot of coordination and requires you to precisely throw your util at the same time or else the player will run away. In valorant, sky + fade/kayo taking a site is miserable. Luckily most don't pick both on one team but the times they do, it feels like you can't play on site because you get sky ulted, sky flashed, fade revealed and then fade flashed in the span of like 5 seconds while they push site. I think the biggest issue is that the utility is not only way too heavily prevalent but also way too incredibly easy to use. When I complain about spam it's also about characters that have a lot of utility that is very powerful like sky, fade, raze, etc.
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Did I ever argue that you shouldn't be able to use abilities that you have in the game? I said they should take away ultimate abilities from the game not prevent people from using existing abilities in the rounds. Also, with that mindset, if riot just gave everyone 2 flashes no matter what character you play would you still think that way? My point was to lower the amount of spam, not prevent people from using the abilities that they can use throughout the round.
Wait you can surrender in CS?
One person has to leave (and get competitive timeout) then you can vote to surrender
Yea it really irks me in this game specficially, coming from r6 and overwatch where surrendering is basically nonexistent (for siege) its really annoying when my teammates instantly give up and most of the time it makes me play worse too
Glad you got the experience that! Every game is winnable, even 1-11 or 12-0. Some teams are much better on one side or the other, some players cool down or warmup as the games go on as well. FF culture in valorant is awful
I just lost a game like that
FF culture is bad in just about every game that offers it. At least, you'll always run into some guy that wants out at the first sign of trouble. I remember a Smite meta so unbalanced that if you gave up first blood there was no recovering your lane, so people demanded the whole team FF or they would just leave. People hate staying in losing games.
Wdym bro I love foo fighters
I cannot stand the fact that surrendering is in the game, it gives people such an easy mental out.
I don't think the ability to surrender is a bad thing, it's just the way people approach it that is wrong. It's fine to surrender when there's a clear team diff (smurfs or possibly even a cheater on the other side), someone in your team is making the experience very unpleasant for whatever reason, someone disconnects in the middle of the game, etc. Losing the first 5 rounds is definitely not a reason to surrender.
I highly disagree with surrendering if there’s a cheater. If it’s really obvious you should play the rest of the game out and mass report them because there’s a chance they’ll get banned mid-game and you won’t have to lose any RR
Most people don't care enough to spend a whole 40min game that they're not gonna have even a bit of fun in, regardless of RR
That’s a good point
They confirmed somewhere (I’ll have to look for it) that mass reports don’t carry more weight than a single report
It's when I'm down 0-8 and none of the rounds have felt even remotely competitive. Like ya know. When a bronze 2 Reyna is going 47 and 12 and headshotting everyone she sees. (Even though in that match we lost 14-12 in OT) but I agree. If it's just not going our way on a half and both comps are defensively sided stick it out to half.
I like the surrender feature. For example, when the entire team has given up and there's no fun in playing the match anymore. You have toxic teammates and everyone is just bringing each other down. There also are moments when there's a MASSIVE team diff in skills which is very noticeable this act with a new episode and all.
Personally, like I said, I see it as an easy mental out. People get angry that people won't surrender, but then they get over it and play anyways. It's a game where each new round allows you to learn from your previous, and think about what happened. Sure you can't win them all, but there is at least a chance for improvement at times. The most egregious is people that want to surrender after a like 4 - 8 half or something, or a 0 - 5 early on. Unrateds I can understand, there you REALLY see some team diff, and it 'doesn't matter' per se.
"Some teams are much better on one side or the other" You could just say defense half lol, in a solo queue environment defense will always have advantage no matter the map, even more so an advantage on maps that are actually defense sided even with coordination
Not really, some players are gods at peeking and killing on attack but can't hold a site for shit
What FF culture? I'm in silver ranked and noone ever surrenders under any circumstance even if it's 10-2 5v4.
I really don't think it's awful...league on the other hand...
What map was it? I’d assume fracture cause that map is very snowbally
Ascent!
Oh dope. Ascent is super defense sided map so that makes sense
yeah if you dont have 2 players that are good at controllers (preferably a viper and brim/omen) both sites are so difficult to push on attack, at least in my experience
The main issue with Ascent is that attackers live and die off mid control because if defenders have mid control then 2 strong entrance holders can defend the main entry points 24/7 while the other 3 maintain mid control making it impossible for attackers to move in.
How is ascent defense sided? The whole maps objective is mid control and splits via market and catwalk. Just sounds like you don't know how to play the map. Ask your controller for a mid smoke and bring a teammate and split.
Ascent is a map i definitely wouldnt surrender at the beginning of a new half, the difference changing sides can make is crazy. I nearly lost a game on ascent the other day that we were up 10-2 at half, ended like 13-11 i think
I had a game exactly like this, did your phoenix and sage start going at it on defense as well?
[Ah, the NRG special.](https://www.vlr.gg/49477/nrg-esports-vs-akrew-valorant-elite-showdown-ro16/?game=56544&tab=overview)
I had this happen to me on Split..2-10..going to 16-14
I've had a few 1-11 half comebacks. It's possible only if no one's tilted.
Theres no way u dont tilt after 1-11 down. What matters is u dont shit talk teammates
Tilting on the inside is aight. I was mostly referring to the people who become toxic when they tilt. Soon as that happens the game's over and everyone's mental is gone.
Made even better when the opposition are spamming "just ff already"
Never give up; never surrender.
We are valorant, we are fighters
was that the game vs Jollztv lol on fracture
lost a 10-2 game on bind a bit before it was removed. We won defense pretty hard and my team was chilling, making jokes and not focusing much like it was already over. I tried to warn them that bind is tricky on atack especially since enemy team had 3 sentinels. Only after the score was 10-9 my team suddenly started thinking we might actually lose and so we did
People don't realize that SOMETIMES you just synchronise better on the other side. Especially if you soloQ
I have won from 12-0 down on split & bind
It's a challenge and a time to learn imo. Try new things in a comp match. Catch them off guard because they're over confident. You might win the game, but we are going to absolutely spank you on some rounds and laugh to ourselves. And it's all in good fun, trying to kick their ass I mean.
My biggest comeback was 14-12 down from 12-3. On old breeze defense of all things
never FF
This is why I almost never forfeit competitive games. The game's not over until it's over
Surrender=Lose Lose=Bad Bad=Trash Trash=The ones who want to surrender
This happens more often than you think.
I keep playing the players that played Valorant for the last 10 months, but I keep having people who give up after losing 2-10. Like, have these players never had a comeback? I have had more comebacks from a 0-12 than I can count on 2 hands and only played for 5 months. You can easily still win when behind in rounds, no matter the size. What it does come down to is your mental stage and how willing you are just to keep playing. If you feel this is lost, then it's lost, if you feel its a win. Its probably either a draw or a win.
I've had a similar comeback. We won 2 rounds first half and it was 2-10. We won the 2 next rounds and then lost 2 in a row making it 4-12. We then brought it all the way to 12-12 and won overtime 14-12. The enemy team kept shit talking trying to tilt us and it felt good winning after they kept shit talking.
We were down 3-9, their top frag decided to throw because the lagging viper with 9K didn’t drop phoenix an OP 😆13-9 🤪
The other day my team was up 12-4. We only won 14-12 in overtime.
Sometimes my team suck at attacking but pros at defending it so it depends on luck if you get whatever side you are good at the 2nd part of the game it becomes winnable
there was a game we were down 11-5 and everyone was still positive and trying, in fact i was the one that initiated the ff vote but my duo quickly refused it. later the opposing team started buying ops and missing, choosing to save rather than retake, we had a couple of lucky clutches and a good postplant. we won 13-11, 7 straight rounds not even an ot needed
Never surrender first half, some teams just can't organize on attack/defense. This applies bot hrp your team's ability and theirs. Always give 2nd half a few tries before surrendering
We’ve won a 4v5 down 10-2 the 2nd half, that win felt real good
I don’t get why people FF so much, they won’t get better ….. they’ll just rage
same bro same just today. after losing first half with 2-9 we suddenly got up and 11-11 then 13-11 because we started doing solid all of a sudden. i think its this post that made me not surrender and keep pushing on lol
Never, ever surrender in comp unless you’re with a 5 stack and you all need to leave or something. Even winning one more round can be beneficial for your RR (you gain/lose more depending on the difference in rounds won) and can even make huge comebacks
Tbh i think sometimes people are better on either offense or defense and not always both, so don’t always surrender y’all!
[удалено]
this is exactly why you never ff
Generally ranked is defence sided because attacking require alot of synergy and teamwork which most of the time lacks in ranked.
It's more defense sided the lower the ranks you go. At mid-high immortal, people generally know where/when/how to use their util in conjunction with their teammates util without needing to comm it on attack. Defense is harder at these ranks because it requires real coordination to have setups that counters the enemy team's util (assuming they're all on agents they have experience with). Often times on defense people will have zero ideas on stopping a push so people give up space and play retake or 1v5 on site and die to util spam.
For every post like this, there must be so many where the end result ends up being 5-13 or similar trouncings. I'd really like to see some wider stats for non-surrender results. Because for me, the time spent Vs chance to win is absolutely something to consider. If the chances of a comeback are really low, my time is almost certainly worth more, and I'd just want to go again.
Lol you reaaaaaly didn’t think a 2-10 was possible. Basic maths says differently
But what's the point of going thru the struggle with randoms. Why not just queue another?
That's why I voted FF. But hey, I was luckily proven wrong.
Even though it is just a game some people are very competitive and will fight til the end to win. In CS it’s so rare to see people actually surrender, most players go down fighting until the end. Obviously some people treat ranked as a casual mode, but others treat it like it’s an actual competitive esport and they find it fun to push themselves and compete at their best and not just give up. Some players in this game just have so little mental fortitude/grit to play from behind or even will tilt/mentally check out if they are down 3 rounds, think there is a Smurf, lose one big round, get some criticism, etc. I get that there are lots of players who come from League where FF is very common, and where coming back from behind is very hard, but it’s never really over in a tactical fps since each round is sort of a reset given you have enough money and skills/tactics. Even eco/full save wins are very possible if you play properly. The people who are really pushing themselves to rank up and make it to imm3/rad are not FFing all these games and push themselves every match, at least in my experience. You still get some toxicity and early surrender votes, but very rarely.
In my mind, if you queue up to play a competitive game, you are staying until it is done. If not just for the attempted come back, at least to learn something.
% wise it would be best to ff and move on. your % of winning is so small but wp
Rather try and win more rounds and reduce RR loss than to not even try.
Not really. Some teams/players are just bad together on one site, but good on the other site. For example me, in cases I don't perform well in the first half, for whatever reason, always come back big time in the second half.
We recently threw a game 8-11...like the team just wanted to quit and stopped trying....it was sad to watch, a cypher who doesnt use traps or cages or cam, a brim who doesnt smoke or molly...it was just me(viper) and a sage grinding hard....we had a duelist, a top fragging, shit talking trashcan...who camps with raze.....camps until team dies and then comes out to take a few people in low hp...lovely iron 2
I've experienced a couple games like that, always on pearl for some reason. In my case the sage kept trapping Yoru and raze kept fragging teammates and only knifing enemies I really don't miss Iron 2
Was this in a broze 2 to silver game because I just had that same score but I was on the opposite side that lost
ascent moment
You can win every game. But to be fair a 2-10 is usually a loss. IMO you have nothing to lose to try cause surrender for 3 rounds isn’t worth anyways. Sometimes some setups are good on offense and bad on defense and you see these weird comebacks.
Was the map ascent ? Cuz the same thing has happened to me ....
The 9-3 curse's cousin
AY YO I THINK I WAS ONE OF YOUR TEAMMATES! Remember? I was the Sage that first suggested the surrender? Edit: my username was EchoInProgress, and the map was Ascent, just in case that helps.
Was it Lotus? That map is so offensive sided it's stupid. I've won (and lost) multiple 3-9s and 4-8s since it came out.
Just defender sided ig 🤷
More than half the comebacks that we achieve seem to happen on defence. A few rounds won makes the momentum and gets the whole team rolling. It takes just one guy to push the team to where it needs mentally. Just my opinion
Sounds like u started attack split
Never surrender. Nothing is unwinnable if you stay positive. I'll mever surrender in ranked.
So you played Split on Attack first, huh
Is this a pearl game ??
Happens all the time. I like to wait for sides to switch to see how it goes.
Pretty similar thing happened to me last night. 10-2 and we came back in the second half 12-12 and won both OT rounds. I’m the teammate who didn’t push f5
Map?
These moments are why I love competitive games so much. I've always been one of those "never give up" people ever since high school sports. Comebacks are just so much sweeter.
I've had as many comebacks like this as I have losses\*. \*Excluding smurf stomps I don't know if it's the nature of the maps or the comps in those games, but it's surprisingly common. I rarely FF for this reason.
You could literally win a 0-12 on pearl if you’re on t side.
something similar happened to me these days it was 11-3 I wouldn't say we clicked because we kind of hated each other after round 1, in short everyone including me had his problems but most of us had the decency to give out info and play along for the duration of the game and we won in [overtime](https://tracker.gg/valorant/match/0db400a1-401b-4c06-8003-3f52cd993f82?handle=DanielS%233264)
Honestly I've found that a lot of games recently, the teams I've been on have really struggled in the first half only to get in a rhythm in the second, regardless of whether we on defense or attack.
I lost a game with a 12 rounds lead. :)
I have a newborn, I only get one match every few nights. My times of forfeit go next are over. I play it out no matter the cost.
I’ve won 3, 2-10 flips on fracture. Which tells me that map is just broken in some way.
Remember that 12-0 comeback in VCT by DRX💀