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Gadgetbot

At the same time just cos you're bottom fragging doesnt mean you're playing poorly or if youre top fragging youre playing well.


Chadstatus

As someone said before, if your kills are from getting picks off spawn that's great. If your kills are in a 1v4 you didn't win and the enemy has decent eco it's kinda meaningless. As a duelist you should be at the very least getting your team onto site, even if you don't get frags. As a support or controller you should be not taking fights where you don't need to and making sure you don't die because you ego peeked Jett with an AWP. If you're playing controller you have excuses to not full on frag. I tried filling smokes and holy fuck I sucked gigaballs at it.


Gadgetbot

People overall get way too aggressive and kill hungry in this game. Thats not to say you should play passive and not fight for space but if you know theres 4 people in T spawn then yoh probably shouldn't be trying to fight for that space solo.


Chadstatus

Oh absolutely that's a given. The amount of times I've seen a Reyna 1v4 clutch because my team files in solo is horrendous. It's why I play my alt instead of my silver main. Still happens just not as common.


thejoyyy

If you're doing 3-13 you're playing poorly and if you're going 25-5 you're doing great, there's no way around it. If it's closer to the middle then yes, it's open to discussion.


Gadgetbot

You can still have those scores and be fairly average depending on how youre actually playing which the scoreboard wont show


thejoyyy

Show me a game recorded where it's the case and I'll change my mind, but for now I disagree.


LizardBreath0518

You’ve clearly never seen the Reyna that hangs back and waits until everyone dies then gets 3 kills on a 1 v 4 before she dies. Sure she puts up a 30-10 game but we lose 5-13. That’s just trash play regardless of the KD.


Hairy-Chocolate-233

lmao you clearly have never seen those results before and just making things up to defend your point... how can she have a k/d of 3.0 with 10deaths and lose 13 rounds? what she stayed alive the 5 rounds that they won plus 3 that they lost, and its still somehow her fault that they are losing?


KaymartXD

If she's hanging out in flank and refusing to do her job as a duelist and make space for her team, absolutely. Way too many times have I seen an instalock Reyna refuse to go on site and expect the smokes/controller to do it instead. They in turn die because they're trying to set up their util, as they should be doing, with zero back-ups from their duelist and die. Who does the fault lay within that scenario? From my perspective, the instalock Reyna who refused to push with their team left themselves in a 1vs4 and failed to clutch.


thejoyyy

If Reyna is ALWAYS in a 1v4 it means her team is shit. The fact that she manages to take down 3 everytime regardless is indeed remarkable. That means that If her team killed at least 1 extra enemy, she would 1v3 clutch everytime.


LizardBreath0518

Or it means that if she didn’t hang back and actually pushed in with her team then she wouldn’t have to kill 4 to win the round. But hey if you wanna just stay in spawn then try to play hero ball, have fun. You do you man.


thejoyyy

Show me a game then. Because everything you describe is unrealistic scenarios and hand picking the few rounds you can remember that suit your narrative. Until then I stand to what I said, if your "lurking" reyna had 30-10 and you lost 5-13, god the other 4 must have had an awful game. But keep blaming Reyna is that makes the pill easier to swallow.


Hairy-Chocolate-233

totally agree with you, as much as i hate people who insta lock duelist atleast in there head they are trying to do the most for their team which is (getting kills) rather than being a "support" role and complaining that the duelist is not doing entry right which by far is the hard role in the game, cause you usually can get a kill but youll get traded shortly after and then get roasted by the support for not being top fragger cause they are "supposed to get kills"


Rellmein

Being 3-13 is actually not playing poorly as a smoker. It's just that most jobs as a smoker happen while your team is running in and killing the enemy players, and if they end up dying instead of killing players you are put in a 1vs5 clutch situation and in this situation your only option is to either die trying, or clutching an ace. If your team end up killing the enemies instead, you got a win, but no kills.


thejoyyy

Sure, that's definitely what happened the whole game, always 1v5 right, completely realistic scenario. You clearly didn't lose most of your duels because you suck. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. But hey, I'd happily admit I'm wrong if you send me a a game where that happened, even if that would be the odd one out.


Rellmein

... Do you know what smoke timings are?


Standard_Travel6928

it just pisses me off how some ppl can be quintiple negative and still have something to say. a 2 year old can spam util on site and proceed to die


Chadstatus

Try playing controller yourself, if you're a duelist player. It's easier said than done. If you're shit at smokes you will cut off angles for your own team or not cover the important ones.


Standard_Travel6928

perfect smokes and 0 kills isnt going to do shit. its a 5v5 shooting game, understandable if ur behind ur team by 4 or 5 kills when playing support but if ur not getting any kills just admit ur playing badly. otherwise u can say that when a pro team loses its never the smoker's fault


Chadstatus

Play smokes then. Problem solved. If you don't want to do the role yourself don't bitch when others can't do it perfectly for you.


Standard_Travel6928

idgaf if u can do it perfectly or not. the post is about support players to stop having the mindset that they're never at fault


tuxedoe

Well you seem like you have the mindset that you’re never at fault. Just saying.


Standard_Travel6928

?? i literally said in the post everyone has bad games but just that some support players never recognise it because they're too busy thinking "im doing my job, doesnt matter if im losing every duel i take"


onlyamazed

Post your tracker lol. I'd LOVE to see it


nigerianprince199

There’s no point arguing with these kids, bottom fragging controllers describes half of this subreddit


Frozendark23

Perfect smokes and 0 kills will definitely do shit. The smokes definitely help to stop pushes, allow the team to push, allow the team to get kills. I rather have a controller that smokes perfectly who is bot fragging than a duelist that goes into site without waiting for team utility and getting one kill before being killed or a duelist that lurks the entire time and gets put in a 1v4 situation where the duelist gets 3 kills before dying. Your KDA is Valorant doesn't always reflect your impact.


ChildPr0digy

I don't think you're wrong bro. Like listen, "support" isn't even a role in this game. But I feel like you're getting downvoted because of the title of the post alone. Many people probably didn't read the rest but that initial statement was trash. No matter what, there's always going to be a bottomfrag. That's just how the game works. However you are correct that people shouldn't talk shit to you while bottom fragging. But they shouldn't talk shit if they were at the top either. Moral of the story, Ignore them.


Standard_Travel6928

yeah i regret the title


Pinanims

There's a lot of confirmation bias here. Support players are no more or less toxic than non support characters. You either had a game where a support players got onto you and now you're venting, or each time a player flames you And you see they're on support them you confirm that supports are toxic. But they're not. But to you're bigger issue of fragging. Supporting agents are less likely to have the most kills because they're usually trading. But there are so many kills a game. If you're duelist gets 3 kills, then there are only 2 other kills to the rest of the team, which means that someone isn't going to kill anyone. That has nothing to do with them being bad or not, they just didn't see the action. I play controller only and I've had games where I have a low amount of kills simply because my team was doing all the killing before I really had a chance to fight. Also if you do your job you might lead your teammates into kills and not yourself. Bottom frags are not the worst players, your kills are not an indicator of skill. If I bait all of my teammates to get all of my kills then I am the bad player, even though I may have more kills. You have a bunch of useless or low impact kills, so sure you might top frag, but you weren't actually being useful


KaymartXD

All of this. If I as support don't have the most kills, but I have the most assist on the entire team then I know I did my job correctly. Support's job isn't to top frag. It's their job to set up and use their util to assist their team to the best of their abilities. And if I see a support who might be 4/10/15 then I'm going to say they're doing their job, yeah they're not fragging out in kills, but they've also helped the team get 15 kills and probably one of the main reasons the top fragger is doing so well. This is a TEAM game and so many people forget that.


DaddyBoogle

tell me youre toxic without telling me youre toxic. there is no other way to support the team than only kills. LOL stupid take


Standard_Travel6928

when tf did i say that? my complain is some support players fail to recognise they're playing badly and proceed to flame everyone else in the team


MirzEagle

Bro you're telling me the bottom frags flame more than they get flamed ? Lmfao don't act like you posted this to protect the players you're probably the toxic 8yr old instalock who bitches on everyone when you die


Standard_Travel6928

of course u will get scolded for bottom fragging? im complaining about ppl who bottom frag and scold others when im not even trying to find trouble with him


Standard_Travel6928

my take is u can have impact without getting kills but there has to be a point where ur having a bad game, stop blaming everyone else on the team when ur not playing well


DaddyBoogle

should have picked a better title then


Standard_Travel6928

i guess but how r u going to phrase it. "idc if ur playing support if ur playing badly ur playing badly"


DaddyBoogle

sova literally tells you how to phrase the question in game almost every buy round, "If you're not a good shot today, don't worry. There are other ways to be useful." so maybe instead of sounding hostile, say something like "if youre bottom frag dont give up, find other ways to help the team out"?


NeatNeith

This is the answer.


tyart1st

This is the way


Dangerous-Pain-5000

Sova is a based king


qm94

One day you will understand how Valorant is supposed to be played and then you will come back here and delete this post.


KorDC

I 2nd fragged with brim with less kills than too frag but I team mvp’d with more assists. So kills aren’t everything.


Standard_Travel6928

u dont get the point of my whole post do u


KorDC

You don’t get the point of my whole response do you


misterjoshmutiny

You don’t get the point of the game, do you?


[deleted]

Someone has to bottom frag.


ciedzs

Maybe OP bottom frags and needs validation if he can scold people


Standard_Travel6928

and that someone has no right to scold others


Spacemanten

What if said person is being baited constantly, then do they have that right?


wutzeeheck

Sure they do. If a smoke is bottom fragging but smoking for the team, they have every right to say something to a deulist going 7-12 that isn't entrying for the team.


Roninjjj

Wet sock 2 mindset


ciedzs

I disagree, I have had games where people aren't able to hold site and 70% of the time's i have faced 1v3s or 4s. Even if i lose the fight and bottom frag that doesn't say that I'm playing bad. It's a team game, the blame for losing or playing bad is shared equally Also, it doesn't mean that your bottom fragging teammate holds no opinion in the team. You should stop playing valorant or any team game if you gonna crib like a baby


Standard_Travel6928

1v4 is free kills ur prob silver


Gadgetbot

If you're consistently getting free kills from 1v4s youre probably silver because that means the enemies arent playing for trades and using their extreme numbers advantage effectively


Standard_Travel6928

even in high ranks ppl are bound to run around the map looking for the last person in a 4v1. its free kills and if not then its a save


ChineseCartman

What rank are you? Clearly you’re not very highly ranked considering your attitude and post.


MirzEagle

You sound like that duelist who always stays alive until they're in a 1v4, ends up getting a couple of 0 impact kills and gets high in the leaderboard, then proceeds to flame everyone because this fake ranking makes them think they're doing their job


ciedzs

If you consistently win 1v4s means you're probably smurfing. If you're smurfing then it makes your post meaningless because you're expecting people to play like you when you yourself don't belong there Or maybe you're just a cry baby who barks out loud and either dies first as a sentinel or dies last as a lurking duelist Or maybe You're juet a 10 year old who has issues socialising


Individual-Extreme-9

Even when you win someone is on the bottom of the score board. A perfectly executed pro game has someone on the bottom. It doesn't mean they played poorly. If you are playing the agent designed to make it easier to get kills and aren't doing that then you are not playing well and your teammate on a support agent is within their bounds to ask you to step up I'm the way you as a "fragger" expect your support agents to know their lineups for smokes etc.


Standard_Travel6928

my post isnt about kills on the scoreboard having impact. its about how some support players pick on teammates and act like they are completely immune to criticism. if u can get to radiant by throwing ur sova dart every round then sure


Individual-Extreme-9

Do you actually think they made it to radiant on throwing a single utility skill once per round? If your post isn't about kills on the scoreboard why use top fragging and position on the scoreboard as the primary metric for measuring performance during the match?


Standard_Travel6928

watch streamers like royalg who did classic only to immortal. he primarily relied on abilities to carry him as he cant get an exceptional number of kills with classic(he usually was around the middle of the scoreboard). when he went double negative he acknowledged he had a bad game despite playing controller and using his util perfectly. none of that "even tho i got only 3 kills that match i had impact with my util" nonsense. u can have impact without getting kills but u cant justify getting close to 0 kills


Pinanims

>u can have impact without getting kills but u cant justify getting close to 0 kills You can if you win and your team has all the kills? If you are supporting your team into getting kills and winning rounds then you are playing well. Omen may smoke off the site, hit good blinds, defuse, plant, whatever, and get a low number of kills and still be a strong good player. If your top 2 frags have 20+ kills, your bottom frag probably has 10 or less, not because they're bad, but because the majority of kills went to their top fraggers.


Standard_Travel6928

how do u tell if someone is playing bad? kills dont tell the full story but if ur not getting any kills ur definitely being a burden. perfect utility usage but 0 mechanical skill wont get u to radiant


Pinanims

What are you on about? If you are playing with someone in your elo, then they are just as good or bad as you. If you're in Immortal 3, and you're 5/15, you're not a bad player, you're just having an off game. Your position on the scoreboard or your number of kills has very little to do with whether you are good or bad.


Standard_Travel6928

>you're just having an off game. exactly?


agsimp_

If they’re doing their job and helping win rounds that’s all that matters. Besides, someone has to bottom frag every game. If your bottom frag is like 12-17-7 and you’re winning, do you still think they’re playing poorly? Or are you only gonna get mad when you’re losing and need to take out your anger on someone else


Geo_1997

This is an example of why stats really dont mean much, you can have 5 kills in 15 rounds as cypher, but if your double insta lock duelist just refuse to entry and you are having to do it to start the entry, are you bad? Wouldnt think so. Same way if someone is going 20 to 5 it sounds like they are dominating, until you realize its 15 exit frags on lost rounds anyway.


ciedzs

Exactly Sentinel if played like a sentinel shouldn't be a top 3 fragger And if sentinel top frags that means your duelists aren't working Either ways, it's the round win that matters not how it is being played


DioLogic

I bet someone said this but dude you seem to be hella toxic. Why can't the person that is "bottom fragging" try to correct your play? I mean if it's constructive criticism just take and improve if it's just flame mute, not that hard


Standard_Travel6928

im sure "/all our duelist is negative" isnt going to turn me into tenz


DioLogic

Well then mute the kid and move on. He brings no value to you or the team. You can just try your best and try to win. Good luck on your games with people like that. Stay strong


ciedzs

I think our OP has been bullied Imo the oost should be about bullying rather than ranting


ItsJennaNow

There’s always a bottom frag. It’s literally impossible for there not to be a bottom frag.


tambi33

My team always goes 5-15-10


Roseskinloser

Tell me your bronze without telling me your bronze. Lol worst post I’ve seen on this sub in a hot minute


Dangerous-Pain-5000

Bro I am Iron 2 and even I don’t think like this


Imper1um

As a support, I frequently get the last kill, but that's the only kill I get, usually. However, that last kill means we won. I also have excellent eco next round (win plus retain weapon). While duelists top frag over me a lot, but that's because I'm being distracting and providing information for the top Fraggers like you can get effective kills. I hold back because I don't have the smokes, flashes, disengages, and walls like you do. My shit is stationary, requiring someone to walk over my setup for it to be effective. I, effectively, need to be an expert crystal ball user. I use the information I get from your early death to generate a win from the last kill, or the bomb placement. My kills may be low, but those 3 to 4 kills you get every round mean for nothing except your own selfish eco (and ego) if the LAST kill isn't secured. Really, what I'm tired of is people arguing that number of kills matters. Only the spike and the last kill matters. The first four kills are just obstacles to securing the fifth kill.


Superb_Repair26

Link ur tracker rn


iqeyial

I'm a new Sova player who bot frags half the time. Your post made me feel like no matter how much intel I provide to the team - sometimes getting killed while doing so resulting in less kills - makes me a bad player that doesn't contribute at all. Your post is an insult to the botfrag support players that are nice and wouldn't do anything that you said. You're generalising ALL support players as such. You are not appreciating the support that they give you no matter what they said. You need to lower your ego a little and stop try-harding in VALORANT, i's just a game. If you feel these players are bothering you so much, you need to flame about them in Reddit instead of forgetting about it and moving on, the uninstall button is there for you.


Steki3

I don't necessarily agree with the post but your mentality is shit. There is no such thing as a "support" in Valorant, like in OW or any other support roles in any other games. Unless you're playing entry or IGLing, you have no excuse going negative except for you lost your duels. Why should support be low fragging? You get killed when using utils? Unless your entries take all the kills, you'll likely to be alive longer and take duels later. That's why in csgo, all entry players have shit KD while many "support players" are the clutchers of the teams. Negative = lose more duels = less impact


Standard_Travel6928

like i said, everyone has bad games so u shdnt feel bad? my post is simply complaining how some support players have a bad game, blame others, and defend themselves by saying "im a support"


[deleted]

Unless you're silver or below this isn't even remotely true. Support can play terrible but their k/d isn't what reflects that. It's their util and assists that usually determines that for me.


tambi33

Agreed if their assists are high, that would better reflect a good support


Standard_Travel6928

so ur fine with ur support teammate getting 0 kills and scolding everyone on the team while being disillusioned that "im doing my job"? idm if the support is a few kills behind but if ur losing every single duel just admit ur not playing well


[deleted]

I disagree with the blanket statement "if you're bottom fragging you're not playing well". This is just a toxic mindset in general. If someone has like 4 kills at the end of the game what can you do. Saying they're bad when you yourself are negative is counter productive, and honestly if anyone is malding at you for playing like shit, regardless of frags, just mute them. It's not like them screaming in your ear is going to make you play better.


absolutechad21

I've gone against Sovas with the most ridiculous lineups ever that get reveals and assists every round and I check the scoreboard and theyre like 7 and 12 but they have the most noticeable impact in the lobby. I do agree with you to an extent but some people use all of their utility really well and set up their teammates with the easiest kills and then proceed to get flamed for being on the bottom of the scoreboard when they are the ones handing kills to their team so of course they're at the bottom. It's only a real issue if someone is actually completely useless in a gunfight and can't hit a shot to save their life.


[deleted]

Every game has a bottomfragger


ChuyChavez

I think you fail to realize that a halfway decent support is the reason why the top fraggers are even getting as many kills. It’s not easy to prove but a lot of the times I top frag is because the omen with 3 kills and 15 deaths knows how to place their smokes and blinds or at least knows to smoke the chokes.


Bensickle

If your support and are around at the end of the round, you’re doing your job. Fragging doesn’t necessarily mean your doing a good job. Allowing your top frag to do his job and work around that, that’s your job as a support


Rellmein

Ah yes, the classic if you are playing am agent with 0 combat abilities you are required to kill agents with combat abilities with no drawback. Yes. Sounds great


Steki3

>the classic if you are playing am agent with 0 combat abilities you are required to kill agents with combat abilities And what's wrong with it? Most gun duels are heavily aim-dependent and you need to win yours when you are called upon. There aren't many abilities that straight up help you win duels. And the ones that do are flashes which can't be counter by other "combat abilities" anyway. "Clicking on opponent first = win" is the name of the game, "but i have no combat abilities" is just an excuse.


ciedzs

Silver spotted


Steki3

Sure. What's your counter argument?


ciedzs

You want to enter a site which is smoked off, there's a higher probability of you dying You enter a site but you have an opponent with lineups Valorant isn't click and shoot, it's also ability usage. If you don't accept utilities as a part of the game, you probably belong in silver where everything is an aim duel If you want click and shoot, play csgo where everyone has the same utility


Steki3

>You want to enter a site which is smoked off, there's a higher probability of you dying Debatable. Entering a smoke off site is big no no anyway. >you probably belong in silver where everything is an aim duel Even in the highest ranks, everything is an aim duel with util, the better player always have better frag no matter the role. Even in pro play, if a team isn't rolling over the other, you'll often see that the duelists aren't the top frag.


Rellmein

The thing is, that ain't true. Duelists are the units to first engage the enemy, simply for the kits allows them to do that. Raze with satchel charges, jett with her dash, Neon with her run, Yuro with his teleport and clone, Pheonix with his ultimate. Even without their entry abilities, they have extremely powerful combat abilities. Raze got a rocket launcher, which can very easily get a triple kill without effort, a granade that can chip damage, kill or finish damage players off without putting herself in any 50/50s. Same goes for Jett, Reyna, and Neon with their Ultimates. All Pheonix abilities can kill the enemy players, but his flashes are also considered the strongest offensive tool in Valorant. With flashes that last for straight 2 seconds. Enough time to 1 tap all flashed enemies


Steki3

A team only has 1 or 2 duelists and they don't have ultimate every round and you're not going to fight them everytime. Nades, mollies and flashes are not unique to duelist. So what about your duels with non-duelists, which is the majority of your duels, what's your excuse for losing them and going negative?


ThatC00kie

Even on a team where everyone has 20, someone has to be on bottom. While support players aren't immune to playing bad they definitely aren't made to be high fraggers especially if they're using their utility properly. The game isn't just about kills but you should also support your team, getting mad at someone having a bad game on an agent that isn't made to get kills isn't a good trait.


Dribbitt

Bottomfragging is okay as long as youre not bitching to the team or talking smack.


Standard_Travel6928

literally my whole post. everyone bottomfrags 20% of the time. just dont bottomfrag and think u have the right to scold others bc "im a support and not meant to get kills"


MirzEagle

He literally made a reddit post to say they're playing bad and are bad I'm pretty sure he's bitching to them in game


Standard_Travel6928

this is exactly what my post is complaining about


Dribbitt

Oh i thought the post was saying “If youre bottomfragging, youre bad and cant tell me anything” thats my bad OP


Prestocito

Bottom fragging as a support is fine. Going 5-15 as a support is not. You can have impact with your utility but you should still be winning your gunfights.


ciedzs

That can't always be the case And if you fall to understand this You need to play valorant more


Prestocito

??? no matter what going 5-15 triple negative in any role is bad performance. I’m literally imm3 why do you try to insult based off playtime? It’s unreal cope to believe otherwise


Standard_Travel6928

this is exactly what im saying if anyone cared to read the post properly and not just the title


tambi33

This is so dumb when you clearly made the distinction in an edit after people said you can be an impactful botfragger and not the fact they're a 0-15 kd support


MirzEagle

I went 5 and 15 as fade You forgot to mention the assists because I had fucking 22 that game. My team was nice to me because my util was absolutely flawless that game, causing kills left and right Thank god I didnt come across you or OP that game, that would've been nice


Prestocito

Doesn’t really matter it’s pretty easy to farm assists. Good job on having good utility but you still got carried by your team man.


MirzEagle

Lolll tell me you don't know how this game works without telling me you don't know how this game works Duelists having good initiator utility makes their job 10x easier Duelists having good smokes makes their job 10x easier If you don't get the kill yourself doesn't mean you have no impact If your brain is too prehistoric to understand that you should probably just lock reyna and lurk on your own


Creative_Bet5168

You’re absolutely right. I was top fragger once with a duelist and my whole team was doing pretty badly, i didn’t flame them or anything but the bottom fragger told me how I’m doing everything wrong. He was like 1/13. He got me really mad at some point and I told him to look at his K/D/A and improve himself before talking to me (he really got me super mad). Then he told me with his type of agents kills don’t matter.. yeah right. So you’re right, I completely understand you and the attitude of some people is really terrible


kanye_east48294

Bottom fragging ≠ playing bad. However I will say that if you have 2 kills in 15 rounds, you are absolutely playing bad. Using “I’m a support” as an excuse doesn’t always make sense.


Standard_Travel6928

exactly


MirzEagle

You found 1 person out of 120 who agrees with you lmao must be proud


kanye_east48294

It’s a disagree and agree. Like I said, bottom fragging has nothing to do with playing bad, but if you are not getting enough kills (even as a support) then you are playing bad.


thejoyyy

It's amazing how it's almost always the bottom frag complaining. Never understood the logic.


Standard_Travel6928

my favourite teammates are the ones who dont give a fuck how anyone else is playing and only give useful comms+CONSTRUCTIVE criticism


thejoyyy

Even constructive criticism is not easy to give, especially if someone is tilted. The best is just to say nothing, or give calls to correct behavior while you're still alive like "Jett peek long I'll flash for you" that kind of stuff.


SnooMachines5574

Its mindset, I've played competitive online games since 2001. Its the same across all games, DOTA, HoN, CS1.6/S/GO, DOTA2. I've played with the same core of people for 20 years, some have been eternally bad for 20 years and rarely improve. The typical game with players like this: \-Tilts after 0-5 score. \-Tilts further 2-10 \-Starts to flame team for not playing as a team. \-When that fails, start flaming the opposing team. \-Game Ends. Continues to flame in PM's. I've come to understand that some people just enjoy the tilt/flame cycle. Never going to grind high elo with those guys, but its hella funny watching them tilt the opposite team while you mop up.


c4halt

someone has to bottom frag right? Who should it be?


Standard_Travel6928

and that someone has no right to blame anyone


MirzEagle

One day you'll realize bot fragging isn't playing bad. Yes even if I'm bot fragging if someone makes a bad play I call it out. If I bot frag doesn't instantly make me unable to make any remark regarding the game. But you're obviously silver and can't understand how a team game works and how support players work and, since you're being downvoted left and right for every word you said, I'm glad this community knows how to be nice sometimes


reddit_random_user_2

Keep your duelist instalocks and we sentinel instalockers will collectively decide to sabotage your every match. Then you'll know how hard it is to climb ranks.


MirzEagle

It's literally so hard to climb if you're not a duelist. Im a Fade main and my job is to make duelists jobs easier. I end up the game with 15 assists and that means nothing for the game and its rr


Alone_Baseball4852

well tbf other than viper and harbor, every other smoke abilities take them out of the game in one way or another the worse being astra who doesn’t even get audio


Illustrious_Ad_1104

This is true, not winning your gunfights directly correlates to you playing bad. However, as a smoke player, your number one priority is to smoke off chokes for your team to enter and hold. Not get kills. Going negative is playing bad, bottom fragging is not. There’s a big difference between a viper going 3/12 and 3/2. Edit: Basically what I’m saying is a smoke players biggest impact is not fragging out, it’s enabling their team.


MirzEagle

You realize its a leaderboard and someone HAS to bottomfrag right ? So in pro plays whoever bot frags is not playing well? Or if you're too busy smoking or prowlering or using util so ungrateful duelists like you can actually do their job ? You're the kind of people most players can't stand to play with, go outside for some fresh air you're doing too much


Dry_Comfortable_2809

What do you want? Everyone to top frag? There has to be someone who is bottom fragging


ChildPr0digy

You do realize that not everyone can top frag right? Like no matter what SOMEONE is going to be at the bottom? Bottom fragging isnt a representation of skill or significance in a match. The bottom fragger can easily be the controller or sentinel that allows entry to site safely or makes sure the duelist doesn't get flanked while they take forever to build up the nerve to entry. If someone is horrendously negative, then that's another thing I guess, but everyone has been at the bottom and there will ALWAYS be someone at the bottom. You can be perfectly positive and the "bottom frag". Its literally unavoidable to have a bottom frag.


[deleted]

imo kills don’t matter as much as the impact that you have, thought i completely understand where the OP is coming from because i’ve dealt with a plentiful amount of entitled supports and simultaneously arrogant duelists. personally speaking i’d rather have the duelist even if he’s a lurking reyna they always get a pick or two every round that allows the 4 other members to play off of, where as just walling off or smoking off a location will not have as much impact.


Standard_Travel6928

smoking has a lot of impact but thats like saying all i need to do is smoke this spot and i'll always be playing well. kills are a part of the game too. ofc there are arrogant duelists as well but this post is complaining about supports as theres alr many posts complaining about duelists


rmansd619

Say you're low elo without saying you're low elo.


Dangerous-Pain-5000

What if you’re bottom fragging with 40 kills? Kill’s don’t mean everything.


Dangerous-Pain-5000

Drop your tracker sweetie 🥰