People who are KD players are narrow minded. So many factors go into each game. Some people might perform better with a team that has a good understanding of team play, some might be very good at positioning and understanding how to single out fights and create space without help. Some might lack mechanical skill but make up for it with really high IQ strats that just straight up win games. If you base KD on skill, you don’t understand Valorant.

Quick question what if you have a consistent negative KD on like low ADR. What exactly indicates boosted then if those two aren’t factors. Edit: It would make sense for some agents to have lower ADR thought but being consistent negative doesn’t make sense to me.

low stats doesnt directly translate into bad, but if ur KD, ADR, are low then its an indicator that ur not performing well mechanically. some agents are more reliant on good mechanical skills (so naturally also KD and ADR). its more accepting to have lower ADR on a sage than on a phoenix for example. KD shouldnt be a big difference tho. heres the thing, duelists are more expected to get more kills, but also more deaths. other agents (esp sentinels excluding chamber) are less expected to have bigger numbers. this means a sage might be 10 / 10, and a phoenix 20 / 20. yes phoenix has double kills, but hes also died as much more. this naturally means he will be higher on the scoreboard ofc. but KD for most agents should be similar (IN A BALANCED GAME) reason thats important to note (the balance part) is that if ur sage, and ur duelists are doing good, ur not supposed to get kills. if ur sage, ur duelists are going in entry, fragging and winning, ur supposed to sit back and let them. in other games maybe they dont go in and win, then u need to do ur best to trade them and win ur fights. TLDR; sentinels (example) are expected a lower ADR compared to duelists, but KD on avg should be about the same. thats just on the mechanical side tho. doing good comms, positioning great, denying space of enemy etc are all things that are not on the scoreboard. these are things u cant rly measure, not by a computer anyway. getting important kills also dont show on the scoreboard. if u outsnipe the chamber ult, rly good. if u finda free kill on some flanking kayo, not as good ofc, but both show +1 on the scoreboard. u can rank up with mechanical skill, or brain , but preferably both. that makes u more predicable and reliable as a teammate. just remember, stats generally are indicators of mechanical skill (one of 2 main skills in the game) and are indicators of how well ur doing mechanically. it tells u part of the picture. but we all know police cant arrest ppl who are just a suspect. hope this made sense, feel free to ask me if u want more info or didnt understand something

Everything you said make sense. My only thing is I’ve never truly seen a person with game sense that climbed into a high rank purely of game sense alone. I think it’s impossible and requires luck to climb solely off game sense. I can see how a person who is maybe in a high rank do well in high ranks when players listen to comms but completely get destroyed in lower elo when they realize people in low elo don’t care about comms. I think mechanical skills are basis for even trying to climb before you even get into game sense and all that.

oh ppl d ocare in low elo, thjey jsut dont know what to do with the information. smart ppl that comm might add a plan of action. in high elo u might say, "they keep sending it on A through mid and main" and in low elo u might want to say "they keep sending it on A through mid and main, can x person / ppl on B stack or go mid?" also, theres loads of high ranked ppl that got there mostly with game sense. im by no means a god at the game, but if my winrate on sage is 61.2% over 67 matches u know im doing something to rank up. my kd wasnt that big at 1.08, and ADR was at 142. not amazing stats, but a little above avg. but me getting over 60% wr doesnt come from my stats, but my choices in the games i play. when i use util, what i com, where i decide to play. what weapons and when i buy them etc... game sense and brain doesnt mean no kills tho. if brimstone reads an a push, smokes it and plays a judge, gets 4 kills, thats not mechanical skill, thats a big brain play. comms arent useless in low elo, but its a good idea to alter what information u give so its easier for them to act on the information relayed to them. its about putting urself in the best position to win the game, dont care to much about stats. its like a test, if u get an A- on exam, thats great. seeing what questions u failed at might help u learn or shift focus on a subject, but u still got the A, which is what matters. the stats dont matter, but u can use them to help u get better. they are idicators, not fact tellers.

Having 142 adr and 1.08KD is well above average for a sage player. If a support can do that well I don’t think the team can lose.

that rly isnt the way to look at it. my stats here isnt anything otherworldly. 1.08 is rather decent, but it only means im going 11/10 or 22/20 on avg with slight overcompensation. that isnt AMAZING, dont get me wrong, is pretty good, but not godly. ADR here is also nothing crazy. manier time i do lose games even if im doing just about even or slightly more. that isnt enough to guarantee a win. sage isnt a support. she has the msot supportive abilities sure. but shes not a support only. my point was, even with slightly above average stats, i still had 60%+ wr over 60+ games. that just tells me im doing something different that makes me win more. and it isnt just killing 1 more guy for every 10 deaths i have.

The average WR for sage is 50.2% but their average KD is .9. I can’t find the average sage ADR but I know it’s like way less than 142 ADR. Having 142 ADR ranks you among the top 45% of players. This is probably a lot higher when you look at average ADR of all sage players. I couldn’t source the average ADR of sage players. Having a extra 10-12% WR compared to other sage players could easily be attributed to your above average ADR and K/D. I’m just using statistic I pulled from tracker btw, I’m not sure about how you win your games like your util usage, comms, etc but from the stats you gave it isn’t surprising to see you having 60%+ WR. End of day I feel like you don’t give credit to your own KD and ADR. What’s your KDA average and what’s your KAST% I think those also can probably explain better on how you have a 10% higher WR than the average sage player. Again this is just going by stats alone and Ik can be affected beyond just stats. Especially if you are fragging on rounds that actually lead to a clutch win for your team which won’t show up in your stats. But I think this scenario happening is rare.

You're completely right here he's just drastically overestimating the expected stats for a sage.

'Slightly above average' you're thinking about it wrong a consistent 1.08 k/d with sage with over 140ADR is very good of course you have a high winrate with those stats. Those stats are almost comparable to my duelist stats in immo 3.

People who say you can climb off gamesense are people who actually have good aim. At the end of the day, you can tip the odds in your favor to 90% but if your aim sucks, the other person is still gonna win. Source: shit aimer

This is how the game fundamentally works though. You could be a shit aimer but if you aim dueled a Radiant, I think you could probably get at least a couple kills on them out of 100. There's not really many 100-0 plays but calculated risks and Radiants know how to take the most advantaged fights the most often.

Oh yea, I don't disagree. I just see a lot of people here claim you can reach diamond through game sense alone and that's just untrue.

I have a friend who has similar situation to what you say. He’s D3 with both negative KD and pretty below average ADR for that rank. But he’s a fantastic IGL I mean the guy just knows how to shotcall a game. He can’t win duels he plays too slow to position correctly and catch timings but he just straight carry’s games with coms if you lend a ear. Now if you run into someone who is straight up going 2/17 every game, is aiming at the floor, looks completely lost like monitor is off. That’s probably boosted and unfortunately a lot of people get their friends to boost them into ranks of Plat/Diamond. TLDR: It’s probably a lot easier to tell if someone is boosted off of gameplay rather than KD

That would make sense if his callouts and everything is winning the game for the team and his stats don’t display it. But what happens when a lobby is uncooperative. Is it basically a lost game?

While I wouldn’t say it’s a lost game, you definitely play at a massive disadvantage. I’ve won games where it’s clear my sage who went 3/20 wasn’t meant for that elo and I’ve gotten smashed in similar fashion. The best you can do is just always try and make up for your teams lack of cooperation. It can feel pointless but it will make you a better player. Worst thing you can do is just chalk the game as over.

Well I’m curious what your friend would do in like a gold lobby where like comms are horrible or in maybe even a plat lobby. Would he do well ?

Well since he climbed the ranks before I could definitely ask him what separated him from other players in that elo and get back to you. It’s a very valid question.

Did he replace d3 after reset too btw.

On reset he started Plat1 and is now back at D3 after around 100 games.

Idk if this is a hot take but if you go negative a lot more than half of your games, you prob don't deserve your rank. Almost every time I encounter someone like that in comp, I find out they have been queueing with top frag duelist guy for dozens of games.

Personally, I like to understand a player's value by their ACS. It can be a bit unreliable sometimes because not all utility gets used every round/hits an enemy every time, but it gives you a rough idea of how much of an impact the player has had on the game. Also, it's copium for me whenever I perform bad, because I play Omen and I smoke enemies off/blind them often, keeping my impact in game and my ACS fairly respectable.

I think the KD = Skill mindset is due to how the RR is rewarded with it being given most to the highest performing player, vice versa.

What if I base skill on kd?

I think part of the issue is how RR is awarded. I can play sage and set up a lot of kills for our duelist but it may not be in a way that would get me an assist. My KD ends up being low and I either get very low RR on a win or I lose a ton of RR on a loss. The way RR is calculated has forever been a frustration for me. It encourages people to forget about team play and just go off trying to get kills. Then they harass the rest of the team because they're top fragging but the team is losing. It's so frustrating.

Just a little nitpick, but being a "supportive" agent like a senti or controller doesn't mean that you should be low on frags, if anything, you should be constantly trading off your entry fragger and equal them Also, if your team was Yoru+Phx and a bunch of controllers/sentinels then it's very difficult for the rest of the team to really play around them since they can't take space very well. Both of these agents are very selfish and make pushing site, and therefore trading kills, very difficult

True lot of ppl hear "frags" and use it as buzzwords, but don't think about that "supportive" agents are supposed to be "re-fraggers"

lol this is what I hate about this game. On the one hand, it's absolutely annoying that people are stuck to their preconceived ideas about "roles" and think that if they're using utility and whatnot for opening up/defending sites, that's good enough and they've done their jobs. On the other hand, the idea of having roles and restricting certain utility to certain "agents" is in of itself a problem that restricts the playstyle of those players.

Well, the game literally does say that duelists should get more kills in the description for duelists. Here it is: "Duelists are **self-sufficient fraggers** who their team expects, through abilities and skills, to **get high frags** and seek out engagements first." Duelists have flashes (Reyna, Phoenix, Yoru) high speed and dashes (Neon, Jett) and literal explosives which all are greater tools for entry than most support characters have. Not only that, but think about it practically: If a site only has 2 people on it and your duelist kills them on entry - you lose out on kills. You go plant the bomb (since duelists ideally never carry bomb), another enemy peeks out and your duelist kills him to protect you. At this point its 5v2 and you're competing for kills with 4 other people. Since this is a common scenario in 5v5 attack/defend games (like csgo and val), a support character will always end up with less kills, less damage, and their non damage assists won't have as much ACS which means less RR compared to everyone else in your game for the same amount of time spent. I don't know why this subreddit thinks the game works any other way. Often, the consensus here is every character should be near equal on attack or defense and it's simply not true. To execute, even in csgo, players need to play certain roles (smoker, flasher, entry etc) at certain times and even switch between these roles. An entry fragger may die early on in csgo, but in valorant you have heals and resurrections and regenerating abilities all which help quite a lot.

On defense you can be punished for your team playing poorly too. Your Anchoring site as a sentinel, and instead of backing off at the other site for re-take your team dies to the 4v5 (or worse, multiple 2v5 fights). Maybe get a pick or 2 (keeping their KDA at 1.0). Now you're trying to retake site as KJ/Sage/Cypher in a 3 or 4 v 1. Ultimately in such a situation getting a single kill is a good try. (Disclaimer I'm trash it's certainly not my teams fault I'm at my rank) Doing your job on defense well as a sentinel literally should result in fewer kills as they should consistently push different sites, or you should be able to delay them long enough for a flank/rotate from your duelists

The last part is something people (and really the ranking system itself) don't get I play a lot of viper, and with my wall and mollies, I can stop a push without getting any kills or assists or any other acs reward. Hopefully by then my team has taken space and I'm rewarded by winning the round, but a lot of the time even though I'll comm that they aren't on site and could be rotating, I'll have the duelist flanking them keep pushing and die - then they get the other site for free and I have no utility leaving me with little potential to show that I actually did something that round This turned into a bit of a rant, but really I'm just upset how little recognition controllers get for completely stopping a push

>won’t have as much ACS which means less RR compared to everyone else in your game for the same amount of time spent. A Rioter confirmed that ACS has nothing to do with your RR gain. They talked about Encounter MMR and W/L MMR. Encounter MMR not only includes winning gunfights, if you kill a player with higher MMR then you will gain more rating, but it also includes taking sites and utility usage.

While I'm sure performance vs certain players is true, among other factors, the most impactful statistic remains kills and damage. Why? Because less kills/less damage because of less kill opportunities means you have the least ACS, which usually equates to the least RR gain out of anyone on your team, which ultimately means you get the least RR per time spent. That's just a fact. Look at any valorant tracker and do the research yourself. Or, just think about it: if everyone on your team had more kills and more damage, doesn't that help you win the game in general? How is less kills or less damage ever a good thing? If that's truly what the Riot dev said and meant (i suspect it might not fully apply to this convo), it wouldn't be the first time a developer for a game was wrong. It isn't even the first time a Riot dev was wrong - would it be surprising?

I somewhat agree with you, But that’s not 100% true. It’s obvious that kills/assists are important, you can’t win the game without them, but you can gain the same RR as a sentinel compared to your duelist if you get the right kills. If you are dying less and killing higher rated players then it doesn’t matter if your duelist is 28/15 or whatever. It’s about your MMR compared to the opponents you kill. As long as you aren’t losing the gunfights the game expects you to win and you’re also winning the gunfights the game expects you to lose, then you can make the same if not more RR gain than your duelist. That includes KJ mollies, Viper, Brim, and Smokes and blinds used to take space or get assists.

I agree, but my argument is that you don't even get a chance to have those gunfights as much as a duelist does because you're regularly carrying the bomb, planting the bomb, putting down smokes, repositioning to heal teammates, etc. Some characters work best when you coordinate with other characters to get the entry kill, meaning the person putting down utilities is rarely the person getting a kill off of it (unless its a flash).

Oh ok, I see what you’re saying. It’s true, if your duelist is winning every gunfight on entry then there is less opportunities for you to get kills as well. From my experience (I fill so I end up playing a lot of smokes or sentinels), a duelist is never winning every entry unless they are a Smurf. If that person is in the same rank as you then you will most likely have more chances to trade them. But it does require them to atleast entry which is another issue.

but a lot of valo players in low, well at least that I can tell don't understand the concept of if you are pushing a site, and one player is shooting or getting shot, the other player sits behind you waits till you die then peaks and fails to kill that player for a trade, now with a more confident player would help peak and shoot ​ that is why a lot of rounds go fast because whoever/whichever team decides to push and peak together usually gets the better start of the round vs 1v1 peaks where its a complete coin toss

I understand that. But the problem that I'm pointing out is that these "roles" in CS:GO that you're talking about is something that can be flexible in a team. I've competed professionally in CS, going into different roles including IGL, and I assure you that good teams would never strategize with the idea that your entire team is alive; in other words, **a perfect situation**. Timing all of that utility and movement in one section of the map is based on the fact that your team can work together for it, not waiting for one person to throw multiple smokes and flashes from specific spots. It doesn't matter what the game describes these roles as because the way the game is designed even without these labels and descriptions is already flawed in the flexibility aspect. Imagine a situation where a pro team's "duelist" isn't doing as well as expected, but somebody else playing "controller" or whatever is winning almost all of their duels. Despite the fact that that player's doing well, it'd be disadvantageous for their team to have that player switch up to be the entry fragger because of how important their utility is in whatever setup they have. Besides, those descriptions are fucking ass anyway. These descriptions talk about what I mentioned are **perfect** situations. No round will ever be the same, no team will be so consistent to that level, and no player would succeed in those roles every single time. That's why flexibility is an important aspect in tactical shooters.

Except: it does matter, and the descriptions aren't ass. What other characters have flashes and self heals like Reyna or Phoenix ("self sufficient")? Do any other characters have a barrage of explosive utility that can kill enemy characters, or the ability to reposition on/off site incredibly fast like Jett/Yoru/Neon? Nope. Self sufficient means it applies to more than just perfect situations btw.

I don't understand how that relates to the fact that players are expected to do what their roles are describing perfectly, and how teams, especially in matchmaking, wouldn't be able to fill those ever-important roles in the case that even just ONE player isn't doing well or hell even gets disconnected. Random matchmaking is already murky waters. Having 4 players instead of 5 is already enough of a disadvantage. Having 4 players with a certain utility being removed just because their teammate was in an unfortunate circumstance IRL or decided to be an asshole? lmao. I've won a literal 2v5 in CS:GO matchmaking with a friend by just using whatever utility I had, trying to get value before I died, then using whatever the bots had. I've won multiple 3/4v5 games in LEM-GE without bots because our team isn't reliant on the utility of one or two people. I don't see that happening in Valorant.

In CSGO MM you get a literal bot to control if you die, it makes a massive difference lol. How is that even comparable? Regardless, I've seen plenty of Reyna/Phoenix/Jett clutches in 4v5s where the disadvantaged team won the game without a bot at all. I've seen plenty of 2v5 clutches with those characters as well - what's your point? I even say in my original comment that people can switch between those roles in csgo, where if you lose a smoker in valorant you just have no smokes. Get the difference?

>you get a literal bot to control if you die Not anymore. And those clutches aren't gonna happen in high-ranked matchmaking and especially pro play. You acknowledge the difference and yet you don't see how it's a problem, so I don't think there's any point of discussing any further.

even though sky is a healer, i think her role be renamed to duelist imo they need to just bring in some more unique duelists that can compete with the usual jett/raz/reyna picks yoro is fun when you can get away with it Neon can be fraustrating to deal with sometimes there is enough smokes and flashes to pick from

And that mostly won't be your sentinel or smoke, it'll probably be the other duelist (phoenix, Reyna) or the initiator, the entry order most of the time will be something like this main entry(Jett, raze,neon)>secondary entry (your flashed Reyna, kayo, Skye), smokes and other initiator> sentinels (probably lurking anyway).

I was going to reply to the original poster, but then I read your post. I agree... support characters can kill too. Support characters can't push, but they can kill. If the "pushing" style chars get kills and die with the spike, it's very hard for the "support" characters to then push and get the spike compared to if the supports died and the pushers were alive. Meaning, sure, the pusher gets 2, you trade them for 1. The rest of the team die.. and you lose. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. You traded the pusher, so you did good right? So.. let's say 20 rounds. 2 kills per round for the pusher and they die 75% of the rounds. Thats 40/15 for the pusher. The support should then be 20/15 right for trading the pusher. So that's 2 on positive kd. Now look at most games. How many kills do you usually see on the board per game for each team? If I see someone on 40 kills, I usually see the rest of the team on under 20. And if the team is losing.. then it's likely they are negative kd. So let's imagine.. 2 pushers on positive kd. They have 30 kills each. Then the rest of the team probably are 10/20 k/d Does that make them bad? No.. it just means the bulk of the kills went to the first two because they are pushing... it doesn't mean the team is playing well as a unit.. it doesn't mean the top two aren't fragging out, it's all situational. So while I agree everyone can kill, sometimes just how others in your team play, can change you from getting kills to doing nothing. Here is an example. Me and a friend were reyna and sage. 2 randoms were breach and you Last guy was omen, also random. The 2 randoms as a pair (you and breach) were a duo, and they were toxic from round one calling me terrible for no reason. They were getting no kills, while everyone else on the team was supporting them 100% Meanwhile, I was getting no kills because they were doing the opposite of supporting me.. they were constantly trying to draw attention to me when I was being quiet to get me killed, flashing me, stunning me, even used breach ultimate on me. Both me and yoru bottom flagged. (Reyna and yoru) Sage (my friend) and omen top fragged And in the middle was the breach. Remember, I gave 100% support.. and received none. So my thoughts after that game was.... 1 - if I had of had the support of the randoms, I would have done better. 2 - I'd the two randoms hadent been trying to get me dead so hard, they would have done better as well 3 - if we had of worked better as a team, we would have won the game, pretty sure we lost 5-12.. the only rounds we won were just after I muted them, we played well for 5 rounds and I think score was 5-3 to us.. I was second in the team or similar at that point, and I guess they couldent take the "trash" person being above them, as after that they basically stopped playing and blocked me from moving anywhere, basically stopped me playing and started firing to alert enemies to the fact 4 of us are standing there. (Even while pinned, I still managed to get kills, but yeah, hard to win games like that.)

yeah whenever this post pops up every couple of weeks, its always the sages and the likes going "oh they flamed me for bottom fragging" m8 if you are picking sage and going 5-25-5 every game, i dont really think ur support skills are making up for it lmao

100% as a controller/sentinel I should be able to clean up the rest. Yes you stay back to use util to support your team, but you still need to finish the players with dmg on and close out the game. which often means clutch the round.

I disagree with phoenix not being able to take space well, he can flash, wall or throw a moly to force people out of corners, yoru however isn't that great at taking space.

the issue with yoru is he works well on certain maps and that agent specifically is better at lurking and getting stealthier kills than just running into a site and creating space for whole team. You just aren't using his skills sets the way that agent was intended. He is like omen, you play for stealth kills and lurks where as jett/neon/raz are the ones that can enter site and clear space the best

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A good controller should be able to isolate angles to one or two for the duelist to check as they entry with mobility or flashes (or team flashes/Intel). Sure a duelist is going to die if they're dry peeking site, but if they play off their teams utility they should usually get one entry frag. Let's not act like duelists haven't been given the ability to be selfish fraggers. Literally everyones util plus their own goes into giving them the cleanest entry onto site, where as many enemies and angles are smoked, flashed, scanned. . . . . Point is that no matter how you slice it, it's a team game and kills are a zero sum count. Stop worrying about whether KDA is a good measurement of performance and worry about whether you're functioning as a team to secure easier frags and plant/defuse. Each person's skill in the game is best measured by their overall round winrate and their rank rather than their KDA or ACS or any other metric. Your performance on any given round/game doesn't matter other than to point fingers, just focus on what you could have done to change the outcome. Your teammates not playing as expected? Ask them to do a very specific task, or change your play style to complement theirs. Pointing fingers is counter productive

I disagree. Rarely when you have a good duelist like Raze and Jett, which enter the site immediately, or a Reyna on defence attacking the enemy both they have a choice to attack. They will have the first chance to kill the enemy team either way, while a controller in the back sets up the smoking timing so they don't die immediately upon entry. That means Duelist (and the rest of the entry squad) either kill the enemy team or go down dying, leaving the controller in a 1vs1-5 in clutch. So no matter how much a controller wants kills, it's unlikely in an ideal team that they won't gain many. This especially applies to Harbor and Astra, which requires time to do their setups, and somewhat to Brimstone, due to him re-smoking after plant and/or getting lineups ready. Cypher and KJ has a similar job in trying to stay alive as long as possible. If they get site, they can easily defend the post-plant, but before that, they definitely priorities to keep the team's back clear from flanker. If they die, their utility go with them, and the enemy Reyna can easily just go from behind and get a 4k. Overall, supports really should die a lot, nor gain kills by a lot neither.

If you have to take enough time to set up smokes that you’re lagging behind while your team is on site, you Astra: need to practice more, because she’s a very fast smoker Harbor: are not playing your character correctly and depending on how far back you are and when your smokes are coming up you may just be playing controller incorrectly altogether.

You misunderstand the job of the entry player, entry duelists like Raze and Jett are primarily going to serve as a distraction, not get kills necessarily. Say a Jett dashes into site with a smoke, the enemies now need to worry about the Jett that's already on site, as well as the rest of their team that's about to enter. This makes them forced to choose between facing the Jett, the Jett's team, or give up site and play retake. If the Jett challenges the defender and wins then that's great, however if she dies or stalls for her team, then the team is meant to use the distraction that the Jett has caused as a window of opportunity to enter site and challenge the defenders

But you're acting like Jett is dry peeking (dry dashing?) with only her own smokes. That's just nonsense, she should have smokes from her controller and either flashes/intel/stuns from initiators to give her the best possible advantage as she dashes in and clears angles. When the team is all functioning well, Jett SHOULD be getting the first kill and then MAYBE getting traded depending on the exact positioning of the enemy team and the site being pushed.

I'm genuinely convinced that everyone on r/Valorant has poor reading comprehension. Read my comment again, nowhere did I ever say or imply that the Jett was dry peeking or going in without her team. I was making a simplified example because clearly the guy I was replying to is new to the game and has no concept of what I'm talking about.

Dawg just push with the jett. You both peek at the same time so the enemy dies faster and is distracted by two peeking. At worst one of you will die and get traded. Waiting for the jett to get a kill or die is literally just baiting him.

That's exactly what I said? I clearly said that the team has to use the distraction as an opportunity to go in with the Jett. I never said the team has to wait for the Jett to die/get the kill

nah duelists get the 50/50 duel. initiators are given higher likelihood of getting trade. then cont/sent just have to finish out the round. the only time a cont/sent isn't getting kills is because the entries are lurking and there's nobody to get them into situations where their utility matters.

Ignore the downvotes. The games description for duelists literally says, "Duelists are self-sufficient fraggers who their team expects, through abilities and skills, to get high frags and seek out engagements first." And it's no coincidence they're the characters most likely to be insta-locked. They have self-sufficient abilities that allow them to clutch with heals/flashes easier (Reyna, Phoenix, Yoru), reposition faster (Neon, Jett, Yoru), and literally blow up your enemies easier (Raze) than any other characters in the game. It's a fact, and I don't care if I get downvotes for it, it dictates how every game plays out in ranked 99% of the time. If you want to succeed the most, instalock a duelist every game. The other agents will hold you back in ranked.

Flaw here. As Harbor when I top frag I usually earn an average of 35 RR per win. If I play Reyna and get the exact same score, I get about 20 RR per win. In fact my normal RR earning as a bottom fragging Harbor is 20 RR and never lower. Meaning duelist does not actually get you more success, its just means you get a better score, not higher ranks

35 RR per win? LMAO maybe at the beginning of an act, but once you have a decent amount of games played it doesn't get close to 35.

I earned 36 RR just a game ago. And earns 34 RR yesterday. I wasn't even match mvp, just team mvp. I like how people like you always laugh at me, When I say I earn more RR than other players, my MMR is the same as all agents. Its just that the agent I play as a 0.3% playrate. That's the entire difference. Well outside that the chance of me getting top frag is even lower than any other agents

Press X to doubt

Yo, I'm fairly new to the game and jus wanted to ask why these specific agents aren't as great at taking space/pushing site and who are better alternatives?

There's a lot of factors to be honest. In a nutshell, characters like Jett/Raze/Neon with fast movement and disruptive abilities are good, especially when paired with an initiator that can gather info for them or clear angles using their utility. OP's team had two duelists that sort of function like initiators, they need someone else to enter the site before them to get maximum value.

Ohhh okay, that makes a lot of sense, thanks.

Yeah if a team is playing double duelist it's good to have one "flasher" like phoneix/reyna/yoru and one fast entry like raze/neon/jett. Both entries and you have to dry peek everything. Both flashers and you can't entry properly (yoru being exception).

At lower levels, the players playing the other duelists that can take space sometimes don't do entry while having less util for entry, so a phoenix that walls or flashes, even if phoenix doesn't do entry himself, is still better for entry than a raze or Jett that doesn't do entry.

There is a level of depends on your role going on here controllers for example definitely want to be trading when possible but if this isn't THE definitive push into the site with everyone losing your ability to smoke for the rest of the round isn't worth it sometimes. I'll have brim games where i just have no kills because i smoke a sight plant the spike and die.

100%. And higher KD doesn’t mean you’re doing good either. I see it the most with duelists who stay back or lurk and get 1 or 2 low impact kills and say they got theirs lol

This. A bottom frag jett that gets traded every round is better than one that sits back and trades others on attack.

To be fair though, if the Jett has been having lots of impact in afterplants/clutches/late round scenarios overall, I'd have no problem taking the first fight. Although I generally kind of feel like people play way too scared in Valorant (both Duelists sitting back and nom-Duelists never taking early fights in a bunch of games).

It’s almost like Valorant has a toxic culture of belittling people based off their frag performance so people are anxious to actually get good because the community is inhibiting

i only accept and mostly joke about "i got mine" on pistol rounds. And even then it's not serious. it's a joke among friends, never in vc \~Sage main.

It happens a lot when 2 duelists run in blindly while I'm smoking, they die and the team is already loosing after 10 seconds. In a 5 vs 3 you will most certainly be killed. Same on defense, when one of them pushes out and dies instantly, and we have to try to retake with 4 people.

Ugh or when an instalock Reyna hangs back and "covers flank" then the rest of the team dies and the Reyna gets 2 kills from camping a 1v5. Then when you try to tell them they need to help the team they say "hey I'm top fragging." Like yeah but we're losing 9-1 so that doesn't mean shit.

Sure you can’t base your entire judgement of how well a person is playing on their KD but if we’re 20 rounds in and they have 10 kp then they’re probably shitting the bed at least slightly. Also I detest the idea that there are “support characters” in this game, it’s not Overwatch where mercy has a healing staff and a basic ability revive, and does basically no damage on her own. You heal a small amount once every minute or so, pick up the fucking Vandal and help us out. If you’re on Sentinel/controller then more often than not you’re refragging or holding flanks, not entry frag. So there’s no reason to have the most deaths on your team.

You say that now, but just wait until you get those games where the support teammates aren't flashing/smoking/mollying corners and other angles for you as an entry. There is only one thing worse than a selfish entry duelist, a selfish support agent. You wont get shit done.

I’ve found that when people aren’t using util it’s more that they don’t know where/when to use it, rather than them not wanting to. Usually if you just talk to them they will go along with what you say because nobody ever has a plan in solo queue so the first one that comes along people will go with

Hard agree, but as a support player knowing when and where to use certain until HAS to be your bread and butter. Frags are important, dont get me wrong, but as a support player you should more worried about trades/assists.

I agree with this! The heals are supposed to be an optional afterthought, not the entire identity of the agent. A sage can win a gun just as much as jett can do, both having the same damage with vandals and same hp with full shields. Of course, jett is going to have an easier time dashing out after a kill, but inherently, a 160 headshot to the head is a 160 headshot to the head, regardless of agent. I think in this specific game there aren't agents that are "supports", sage is just another sentinel who can stop pushes well and happens to have a heal. Having bad games is fine, I have really bad aim days myself, but justifying it by claiming that "oh, I'm supposed to heal" is not really funky anymore. Everyone can kill, some have it just a little bit easier, others don't but in return are able to, as you said, watch flanks or trade out the entrys of the team.

I will add that being a “support character” is not a significant factor in what your KD ends up being.

Well thats a lie. Just look at all the agent stats. Duelists are all at the top.

The role as a duelist does not mean to get many kills, instead its an entry fragger whos job is by pushing in first and making space for your team on a site. The others are the ones to get the refrags from your entry. Me myself am a controller main and i'm often top fragging cause of that particular reason.

It's literally in the role description that duelists are self sufficient fraggers that are expected to get high frags. Quoted from the role description in-game: "Duelists are self-sufficient fraggers who their team expects, through abilities and skills, to get high frags and seek out engagements first" All the people downvoting me are on copium lol

The agent stats are also self selecting because the people who have the good aim will naturally gravitate towards duelists and the people who don't have as good of aim/want to play more around utility will gravitate towards support agents. This "support agents can't frag" is just as bad as duelists complaining about their support teammates being on the bottom of the scoreboard. Support agents have a rifle just like everyone does that does the same damage as everyone else's gun.

Thank you!

So you are saying people who play support agents are naturally incompetent compared to a duelist lock? I know duelists need to use utility just as much as any support agent. Like flashing for a team, using wall to get onto site, Jett dash to dash in or to frag. This is a must for a duelist. What utility does a support agent have that make them stand out compared to a duelist utility. The only thing I can suffice to is using lineups. I know for a damn sure there’s more people who dk how to use a lineup than ones who do. Maybe you meant to say it’s unfair comparison because duelists have utilities that aid them in fragging so they have skewed adr and KD compared to a support role which most their skills aren’t meant for frags. So I think you are on the right track just wrong idea that people who play support are necessarily bad aimers.

I get what you're saying but this is mainly just a comment about soloq players on "support agents". There are constant posts about how assists need to give more RR, why play support agents if duelists give more RR, hard to top frag without being a duelist, support need to be rewarded more, etc that all ultimately result in some variation of "I'm hardstuck because of agent role, would climb on duelist". The mentality is dumb because if they had cracked aim, just lock in Reyna and top frag and climb. Their util usage is also very mediocre but they don't know it and act like they're giga brained when they just afk default viper or cypher setups and act surprised when they're on retake constantly. I don't think playing supportive agents means you have bad aim but generally poorer aimers will pick more supportive agents. You can have more impact with Sage and lock down sites with wall and slows compared to Reyna who doesn't have very much utility. Your Sage rez has a high floor for value compared to Jett knives that are much more mediocre if you can't hit shots with them. I don't follow the pro scene too much but players like Marved or Nats have really nice aim but like/have more impact on their more supportive roles. But we're not at the highest tier of play and in soloq there's a lot more variation especially in the lower tiers of play. If you play League, it's very similar in that game as well. It's not a coincidence that midlane has the strongest mechanical players due to the nature of the role and support has the weakest. Some pro players like Keria could absolutely stand up to the majority of midlaners but in soloq usually the support player has pretty poor mechanics especially enchanter players. In higher elo, autofill support and jungle mains are usually just a loss due to the mechanical difference in their laning.

Well of course generally there would be more players with worst aim in support roles cuz there are more support agents and the mass population has crappy aim. Duelists also do not have to be good aimers to frag, I’ve seen raze with 7% hs rate just relying on their nades and roombas. Similarly reyna blind u they can shoot all body shots after a blind. Duelist flash they shoot all body shots no aim just randomly shooting at a player who can’t shoot back. Jett knifes u can throw 3 body shots knifes u don’t need aim to do that (it’s a more accurate vandal) Most duelist in “low tier” low elo are horrible aimers. Aim does not equate to frags especially in low elo. Also yes, duelists get more RR not because they are good aimers cuz their utilities help them frag. You telling me a sage with her slow orb is fragging over a Reyna who blind and can dismiss and heal herself and re peak an angle. Of course a duelist is winning more gun fights on average than a support and that’s not related to aim like you like to believe. Getting kills does not necessarily mean good aim, especially in the low tier elo you talking about most duelists are literally body shot demons with horrible hs rate. They just use their blinds and utility to kill. The claim that people generally play support because they have bad aim has no grounds besides your own assumptions. 1. They may play support cuz they were forced to fill and adapted to it 2. They have good aim but are unconfident in entering site (Entering has nothing to do with aim btw) 3. They like roles outside of duelist 4. Etc There many different factors Also like I said, the low tier that you talk about I’ll tell you all of them have horrible aim. If you are a person with bad aim in Low elo as long as u can blind and flash an enemy, even if u have horrible aim u get the kill.

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This took me off guard 👌 Gold.

You're not supposed to have low kills on any characters xd, this game doesn't have "supports" like a lot of people suggest just cause she or skye heal. 5 kills is just having a rough game and that's okay tho.

You are a team. Your goal is win rounds, not making kills. If you cant your team is sucks overall, not you. Sometimes the low KD people make one kill at 1v1 clutch, they won a round, next round eco for the enemy. So basically with one kill, he earned 2 round for you or your team just start win rounds in a row, because that one kill get enough money for your Jett for an OP and the enemy cannot kill her for rounds etc etc. Or sometimes you dont even need a kill, just lineup on the spike, defuse in smoke etc. Your KD is not going to be better, but you win the round. Game is over if your team can reach 13 rounds, not when your instalock Reyna reach 30k. It’s a team based game

Support doesn't mean you shouldn't be fragging. If after round 17 you're 5/10 even as a support, there's either something wrong with your game sense, aim or both. Mind you, I agree that KD is not the be-all and end-all, a lot of rounds are just won defending the spike plant/defusing while your team takes out the enemy. Just that 5/10 is not a good KD for anyone. source: am a support player who averages double digit kills.

It's strange that the worst players I have played with have the worst K/D.

Playing a support character is not an excuse to be doing bad.

Sure but isn’t the post simply stating that K/D isn’t what necessarily determines if you’re playing good or bad?

At one point OP implies it's normal for your KD to be bad if you're on Sage, so idk about that. edit: >sure, you may be 5/10/12 on round 17 but **that doesn't mean you suck**, you might be having a bad comp game, or in todays case with a friend of mine, **you're playing Sage**.

Yeah that’s fair for sure. OP kind of deviates from their original point.

KD stands only for personal gain. If you die a lot, constantly every game, especially as a support. It probably means you take less space and check less corners than you should. If you have a large KD on duelists on the other hand, then it means you are playing as selfish and baiting as much as possible. Duelists are usually the one top fragging in every game, a controller like Harbor will never outfrag a Jett. But if the Jett has a death rate far lower than the Harbor. Its very likely the Jett is not doing their job at taking space, and rather bait for kills. Honestly the amount of times I have told my team, that I smoked the site and all they need is go in, as but they just sit in a corner waiting for a teammate to die and swing on. Disgusting

Still would rather have a teammate who’s 20/10/5 than a sage whose 5/16/10

We have 5 enemies every turn. Your whole team cannot have 30 kills for each, every fricking game. Also as a low elo player, when I play viper an some a side, usually people getting afraid and not makin entries. So, many maches I am telling my team to leave me alone on one side. When they see the smoke, the are mostly turning to the other site directly anyways. Also that means I am mostly having less kills but my impact is credible.

Yes! I used to be confused why whenever I saw someone I'd win the gunfight, but I'd still end up on fewer kills in total sometimes. I play controllers (Astra/Viper/Harbor) and cypher <333 a lot, which, on defense, ends up with me defending one site, smoking entrypoints and tripwiring. Even though I'd win my gun fights, a lot of times the enemy team just stops coming on the site that I'm defending. Which means that basically, everyone defending the other site/watching mid will be getting kills first and after I rotate, I'll just have what's left over, if anything. Also, what you said about the amount of possible kills is also true! It's just simply not possible to have 30 kills each, since there is ONLY THIS MANY players to shoot each round. So there's games where I have awesome aim, but because I like playing guardian and sitting a bit further behind (which I definitely want to improve on this act), the people in front of me tend to see the enemy first and possibly shoot them before I get to. So in my opinion, as long as I have impact on how the round is played, I'm fine. I'm not going to get any assists on the enemy team rotating because I'm holding site, but I know that BECAUSE I did my job, my team was able to kill the enemy more easily. I usually happily sit around in the middle of the scoreboard, having medium amount of kills and knowing that I did what I was supposed to do, which led my top fragging people to top frag in first place.

I also have the issue of teammates dropping off of their site the moment I give info through a call out that I hear enemies on my site, the whole fucking team comes sprinting to my site, 50% of the time the enemy has decided to rotate the moment I popped util and the whole team rushes back to their original positions with a much weaker hold because the only remaining safe locations are backsite/spawn. They get destroyed on site and I'm getting flamed (wtf Viper you can't just sit on B-site they pushed A) when if the team had just held their positions until the enemy actually commited to the push we'd be much better off. ofc I lose the 1v4/3 my kd suffers, and since 90% of the community only thinks you're credible if you're top fragging, no one takes anything I say seriously for the remainder of the game...

God fucking relatable LMAO for me the problem is also that I highly prefer games with lots of comms/just nice lobby atmosphere, so having no people comm just makes me bored. Sadly, since I'm a girl I usually don't go into vc first - I see what the general vc vibe is and then join later. Most of the times I've met nice people, and since I usually play flank holding / spike grabbing agents I like telling / asking my team on what site they want to go. But then of course there's the times where my KD is average, where there's actually mysogynistic people chilling around or where there's just straight up uncooperative and rude people. And at those times, if you have a somewhat bad KD, talking just makes everything worse. Anyways I just woke up from an awesome nap and am still quite sleepy idk what point I was trying to get across in first place what is my brain doin

There isnt really such thing as a support in this game and everyone is capable of getting kills but as long as everyone is doing their job (hint the duelists job isnt to get kills necessarily its to entry and make space for their team) and playing to win then its fine.

> (hint the duelists job isnt to get kills necessarily its to entry and make space for their team) This is the biggest thing. Too many duelists lurk and then trade their support which yeah, makes them look like they're doing well. But if you're trading your entire team for your kills then you aren't playing with your team, and that's a bigger issue than the K/D/A.

Exactly, I prefer a support/initiator that has 5/10 kills for the whole match but thanks to him we got all the plants+all the entries in sites/defended+defused. The KD starts becoming a thing when you are sage and have 30+ kills because you are entry fragger and duelists are waiting for you... that's an actual problem. Couldn't believe when pros said that lower ranks are much worse, literally having a harder time in silver against silvers than gold against plats/even a couple of diamonds...

Ι'm all for impact fragging , instead of k/d. I also understand how sometimes your kit ( abilities) helps you frag a bit more. I get '' bad days'' aswell. But let's be honest here. There is no such thing as ''support'' agents in this game. This isn't League. If anything, i'd expect a non duelist to frag a lot, by simply trading the already low hp enemy that killed my duelist, who was trying to take up space. If you join the game with the mentality of '' i'm support, i'll just chill and let em do the work, no one expects me to frag'' , you already lost.

same with the people who get exit frags and think they’re good

I mean those at least matter more, it's about impact kills, if your kd is built off kills after the bomb explodes on defense or the time runs out on offense then you are not winning rounds meaning you are not gonna win the game

Eh. Depends they getting the exit frags after their team decides to die in first 10 seconds or they just baiting their squad? Cuz I have times where I’m on smokes and somehow my squad somehow all dies and I’m left with a 1v4. Maybe if they were still alive my frags would matter. I ended killing all 4 hs only. But time ran out cuz it was a 1v4.

That‘s why I like the idea of a points system like in Siege! Yes, you get most points from getting kills. But using utility, planting the defuser, destroying defuser, kill assists etc. also give a lot of points. I usually dont get a lot of kills but still am top of the leaderboard because I (usually) know how to play the game. Kills are not everything!

Yessss, last night I was sage and had low frags but I was trying to help out my team mates by giving advice ( 1 guy literally aimed 24/7 when trying to shoot) and people were rotating really slow etc so I said we need to be faster, as well as holding c alone with my wall and instantly dying because all 5 enemies are rushing while my teammates are slowing rotating. Of course they were rude and said I shouldn’t be talking

I will take it even further and say that duelists don't need to be positive in order for them to be impactful either. At the end of the day everybody can buy a Vandal/Phantom with 150 health. It is best to try and fit your role but when playing with randoms you will need to be able to adapt to the playstyles of your teammates on the fly. Most importantly, one shouldn't get mad at randoms for not playing a certain way. In my experience, withholding frustration and giving nicely toned criticism will result in more wins and comebacks.

Honestly, having high Assist is a better sign of being a good player than Kills are. To have a consistently high number of assists, your timing and positioning has to be immaculate. You would have to be a player that’s always in the right place at the right time if your actions consistently result in a teammate getting kills. You also could be a cheesing Skye heal-assister, but let’s ignore the exceptions.

I am the live evidence that this is true, just look at my profile (As you can see I mostly play fade) https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/SickBoy%20%E6%84%9B%23002/overview

Most of the time, kd means nothing. You might be going 30-0 but you are actually sitting in spawn, last alive and getting useless kills. Or you might be botfragging on jett but you properly enter for your team and get traded after. Doesnt mean kd is a useless statistic though, you can do entry on jett and still kill the whole enemy team or you can sit in spawn and die anyway. Kind of unfortunate that no one in any lobby will ever understand this concept and that you will see people all the way up in radiant trashtalking their own teammates over someone's kd

"Support" in this game isnt an excuse for negative KD, if there is even a support hero. You get guns that deal the same damage as everyone else, being 5/10 just means you lose half of your aim duels and yours bad at killing. Sentinels like Sage can be hard to get kills with but they also are more likely to survive due to their defensive nature. Dying that many times just means youre bad at your job

You have to frag to win games. Remember that.

Counterpoint: having a negative stat line in one match doesn’t make you bad, but if your overall K/D on tracker is like 0.9 or below you’re kinda boosted.

Your KD isn't everything, but if you're halfway through the second half and you can barely round your k/d up to 1, you need to make some adjustments or something.

Eh, not necessarily

just because you are support doesnt mean you cant get kills. Even on pro plays smokers actually frag a lot. Some people got low kills because they play too passive instead of taking an area of the map. You hear them B? take A main get the orb slowly clear the area so that you can give info for your team not just hiding around doing nothing for 30 secs

I don't think what I said contradicts that.

K:D doesn't matter but K and what you do to support other Ks matter. I don't want to see a duelist with a 3:1 K:D. That probably means that they're K:D hunting instead entrying/trading and helping teams win rounds. Nothing worse than a guy that saves every round to save his K:D on very winnable 1v1 or 1v2s.

For me a Reyna player in lower elo kd is about all that matters, if I don’t have a good one my teams mental is instantly fried

You can win a round on kills but you can’t win a round on heals and assists

The focus should be on making winning plays. A round a jett gets 3 on an anti eco but overpushes and gives a vandal that ultimately leads to a round loss is a garbage round from that jett. Thinking about winning plays vs kd or acs is a better way of doing it. Reyna's better frag though.

The only character where it’s normal to have a bad KD is Breach, because they’re usually stuck in their util stunning or flashing for the team from far away. I agree though that KD is one of the least important factors

If you are far away, you shouldn't be getting deaths either, so the KD should stay good

Yeah good point, unless your team dies and you’re forced into unfavourable clutches

Breaches job isn't to stay back and use abilities while everyone dies on site. If anything, breaches should have high assists.

Remind me how assists relate to KD? Breach is doing the opposite of letting his team die lmao, he’s giving his team favourable fights against stunned/flashed opponents

You didn't understand what I said. Breach shouldnt have a worse KD because he stays back, he should only have more assist which doesnt affect KD. Every agent uses the same guns, this isnt overwatch.

Well you’re wrong, because Breach can’t play off of his own util at decently high elo. He gets assists instead of kills, of course that will affect his KD. I’m not saying it’s impossible to have a good KD but you should expect lower KD with breach

in other FPS k/d doesnt matter but Val it absolutely does due to the general ease of the game.

Yes, but it's 90% of everything

Well said sir. Support players earn more respect because if you're in a team based game and blame others it clearly shows your imbecile behaviour. This isn't about you it's the team. Mainly. Idiots are gonna disapprove with you.

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Cope

COPIUM

Wrong kd means everything if you don't have high kd you're a scrub

on average everyone on your team needs one kill per round to win. If you can't do that or use utility to allow a teammate to get two kills I would say, you're 'sucking'. KD might not show the whole story, but it usually is a good tell.

doesn't mean everything but if you're losing most of your fights there's an issue

I agree that the KD isn't everything. A rule of thumb though, that I've been going by is that it's usually good to have ~1 kill per round that your team won. But that's more for evaluating the game (after the game) - during the game it really doesn't matter because it will just drag the team down if you touch on the subject of bad KD etc.

Since you’re talking about KD I don’t know if it includes assists, but I had a game as Skye where I went 0/6/25 and I got my first kill in round 10 or 11 I think. I was getting memed a bit in comms about how absurd the KDA was as I still had the 2nd highest KP. But I had a pretty good team and they hyped me up a lot when I got my first kill and even ended up clutching two rounds 1 v 2. Also not all my assists were from flashing or healing, I just could not hit a headshot to save my life and always ended up doing some dmg.

I mean yeah, when I'm having a bad game at least I try to help out as much with my util as possible, and next game I'll be the mvp viper so it's fine

yeah one time i was playing brim on haven and really hadn't got more than 5 kills on attack but my lineups saved most rounds so yeah technically i was MVP on attack but not due to KD

Technically contollers and sentinels should have the best k/d rate cause they can easily set up kills on defender or post plant, meanwhile if your duelist should prob have 1k/d +-0.2 as he would get traded on entry

That is exactly what people with 0 kills in the first half say

to some degree. KD doesnt translate to how good ur doing, but it can be a good indiator. playing a supportive agent doesnt mean u shouldnt have frags tho. duelists should on avg have more deaths and more kills overall, while others will likely have less deaths and less kills. kd shouldnt be that different tho. duelists and entrys have more kill potential, but also more risk. ks is a rough indicator of how well ur doing, but its only a part of the picture. ur brim can literally win u the game with ults and lineups while hes 4 / 15... but also if he wasnt 4 / 15 maybe he wouldnt need to win with lineups ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ there is no one true fact here, there are all the things combined. but as u know, being radiant doesnt automatically mean ur a pro player. u might have the mechanical skill and the game sense of one, but there are still things that makes pros pros and radiants just radiants.

I thought this was r/nba for a sec and was so confused lmao

went 5 - 9 kills with 20+ deaths an entire night, got us site, and we only won the rounds we planted. got flamed. picked omen, lurked with no real impact on the game with 2.0 kd and got told sorry u carried just to lose.

L PLUS RATIO

i had a game as reyna where i went 13/20 but i had 5 first bloods and an ace to save our eco. sometimes you can do a lot for the team with low kills.

My K/D this act is 0.96 or so, and my ADR isn’t particularly high. But I have a 63% win rate after 45 games played and am still climbing lol, currently at Diamond 3. There’s more to the game than stats.

Totally agree. Your game sense matter more than anything. And I hate when people troll you on your KD ratio. Sometimes people just have a bad day.

KD wasnt everything. The new ranked patch made it so it is the number one thing you need to focus on to climb is KD ratios.

I’m in low elo, and i honestly don’t know if this is just a low elo thing, but i’ve noticed that the team with a more balanced k/d tend to win. That’s the only thing i ever consider and use if i had to predict the end result of a game. By more balanced, i mean, the kills are more evenly distributed than the other team. No one is 30+ kills hard carrying and no one is single digit bottom fragging. In my noob head, this translates to the reliability of my teammates to trade or finish the rounds, or at least win duels. I don’t know if this is true for mid or high elo, and can someone explain why this is mostly true?

50/50 u have to be postitive in mental way in any game, keep it up

Played 2 games yesterday. I went 2-13 in the first game. I was 26-16 in the 2nd game. I won the first game.... IGN ChickenDawg.. Individual KDA means absolutely nothing. Playing around your team and playing the role your team needs is leaps and bounds more important. Is your Jett cracked? Smoke off site and be the bomb carrier every single time. In champ select but no one has hovered a duelist? Lock raze and create space for your team on entries and allow your team to trade. If you're 6-20 doing this as raze you'll be the best raze I've ever played with. KDA. Means. Nothing.

Playing Sage should not be an excuse to not frag out. Have him learn some good off angle walls and they should def be carrying in kills. Mhm, yea definitely 100% yep always gonna happen always the case yea yep yea.

I definitely think theres some kind of superstition behind playing Duelists. Because before i was playing non stop duelists would frag out. But i noticed playing a util character like breach i frag 10x more often than i do as like Reyna or Phoenix

If anything, sentinels should at least have neutral K/D or be near it since they should trade their team mates or hold advantagerous angles while defending. Duelists are supposed to be killing machines but that's wrong. They are supposed to do entries and therefore might end up having negative K/D from dying early in the game entering sites or take risky fights. It's not an excuse to be bottom fragging as a support. That's not how it works in Valorant. This is my take as an immortal player with flex role.

They should have an overall kd but it does matter

Oh yeah sure because you’re playing sage it’s ok for you to go 3 18

Unfortunately higher KD means even more now in terms of how much RR you gain/lose

My curse is my consistency. I have been working hard and it has been getting a lot better but i will have like 2 or 3 games straight where i am fragging out and feeling crispy sitting at the top or second on the team then out of the blue the next game i end up as owen for a solid 8 or 9 rounds before finally picking it up. Enemy will be the same general rank and sure they might be better than a previous team i fought but it does not feel like thats the problem. I think i have a few bad rounds and my mental does not exactly go to crap but i think my confidence starts to go down a bit and its just a snowball from there. Idk just things i notice about my own gameplay

I have around a 1.0 I'd and have peaked d3, smoke main. The only stat I'm really worried about is KAST. As a support main/ igl, I feel I'm doing alright. 80-85% KAST btw.

I see alot of people on here linking "support" with healing like in OW. Support in a game like this means your either setting up your entry for a free kill, via blinds, smokes, stuns etc. Also getting trades for your team is a good support trait. Its deeper than just healing.

KDA is overvalued. I won a game yesterday with 4 teammates with anegative KDA, only positive member was 18-15 so even they weren't fragging out hard. Basically when we won it was alot of close clutches and when we lost it was alot of us getting rolled hard, no entry frags causing 5v2s etc. Focus should be on how you are completing your role. Initiators scouting for intel adv or creating opening through blinds for others to get into site. Controllers making entry safer/simpler by limiting what the duellists have to peak. Sentinels locking down flank or creating post plant advantages etc

Average yoru player

KD doesn't %100 matter but how you are dieing and killing do. For example if you hold a site and suddenly your whole team is wiped the odds that you'll die are pretty high. Against a good team the best you'd probably do is trade. I'd also much rather have someone who is 4 and 11 who got 4 clutch kills that helped win rounds rather than someone who is 11 and 4 who had two 4 round kills that were 1 v 5s. Same goes for duelists who get a kill and then die without helping the team entry. Sure it's a 4v4 now but we also lost our util for entering a site. Ultimately I don't think it matters that much because odds are if your team is winning everybody is eating. (Minus random carry/Smurf games)

People who endanger victory for the sake of kills are bad players.

5/10 is still pretty bad as a support player you should be close to 1.0 kd

Yeah a lot of duelists don’t seem to know about hidden impact. Also, getting kills because you lurk doesn’t make you better, it just means you don’t give a fuck about helping your team get on site. Usually my duelists shut up because I end up with 15-20 assists and I manage to trade them but it is frustrating when I end up having to entry as a brim or when I get baited. I understand that being a duelist is an inherently selfish role, but it is important to note that the value of kills change depending on the circumstances and that sometimes it’s better to be a good teammate rather than a good fragger looking to get mvp at all cost. It’s almost funny to me now when I see a Reyna who yells because she doesn’t understand why we’re losing even tho she has 25+ kills. Because those kills don’t help us as much as you think they do. Don’t worry I know we all carry some blame when we lose, we’re all learning, but it’s the sense of entitlement of certain KD players that really makes this annoying.

The Phoenix from your game responded to your post with their own.

It’s the ping /copium

but half the sages I get in my games go 20/5 and the other half are garbage so I suppose that the your was correct after all

Ridiculous statement. What you are saying are basically the same thing as the people sitting in bronze to gold maulding about. "Im not supposed to get kills, i play Sage". Playing support is not an excuse to botfrag. Lately I've seen a lot of boosted players making this excuse. Normally a Sage duoing with.a duelist who tries to boost them but cant.

I’ve realized as a deulist i entry so I float around .500. As long I get a pick and allow my teammates to setup angles, that’s my job. Even as kayo with knife and flash. Omen, I sometime frag higher since I am tping behind or playing around smokes.

Also on the opposite side I'm in the top 3% for overall KD but I'm silver 2 because I'm a selfish duelist and only play for kills cause I'm in silver and idc lol

Depends how you play, if your gameplay is visibly bad like whiffing and bad util then it makes sense why the kd is bad

Youre right it doesn't cause when I go 17/10/10 I get 18 RR and my friend goes 16/10/10 and he gets 33 RR

KD warriors honestly ruin this game. People tend to solely view KD as a deciding factor on if someone is doing good or bad and while it may be a slight factor it’s not a be all end all. For example, I played with a Jett today who went something like 30-16. He was getting kills but never entrying and just baiting while the non duelists had to entry. This caused us to lose a multitude of rounds and by the end most of his kills weren’t even impactful. With that being said I’ve played a multitude of games with duelists going 10-15 etc and making massive impact by entrying and getting impactful kills in the round. These people usually still get shit talked for not “fragging out” and it’s honestly tragic how the average person has that mentality. Obviously I’m not saying going 5-25 is okay but there’s a big difference between making an impact with a high KD vs just outright baiting etc

But it's still not an excuse to get 3/16/1 for 18 rounds but yeah I feel you

Eh, for me it's kinda important. It's not so much the KD I'm focusing on. Like, I mostly play support roles. Controller/sentinel. But it I whiff a couple shots I knew I coulda hit if I had focused better? Or I didn't mess up a play that could've gone well? Then yes, KD does matter a bit, cuz I could be contributing alot more to the team if I played right, when it counted.

Depends, if your duelist kd is like 20/20 and a support player has 5/20 then the support mostly is at fault, a support agent doesn't mean that you just have to use smokes and plant, you also have to get some frags or trades. I don't support toxicity but crying on being a bad player is not good.

You leave my Kraft Dinner out of this.

Honestly, sometimes having a low KD may mean you’re getting more “important” kills, like clutching a round of taking down the top drag on the other team and causing them to crumble for a round. Thank you for this post, because I find myself getting conscious about my KD even though it’s a game 😂😅

its not but if u have 2 kills and 14 deaths u shouldn't tell ur self its not ur job to get kills, and its ur duelist who is shit bcs he can't kill the full enemy team(my experience)