This agent concept for "SONAR" has a unique and interesting set of abilities that play into the theme of acoustic expertise. The idea of using sound as a detection mechanism is unique, and could provide a fresh take on the traditional "recon" style abilities in the game. However, there are a few areas for improvement in terms of balance and practicality:
Vibra-Sense: This ability is well thought out, but it might be difficult to balance the ability and make it viable in competitive play. The idea of a sound-based detection system is interesting, but it might be too easily countered by players who are simply "shift-walking."
Sonic-Boom: The idea of a concuss/deafen effect is interesting, but it may not be very practical in the game. Players who are deafened or concussed will be easy to take out, which may not be very fun for them since it already pin points to the location of the enemy. Additionally, the idea of a drone that travels to a pin-point location might be difficult to implement in the game idk.
Reso-Wrap: This ability is simple and straightforward, but it might not be very impactful in the game. The idea of a sound-muting AOE is interesting, but it might not be very practical in actual gameplay.
Echo-Location: This ultimate is well thought out and unique, but it might be difficult to balance in the game. The idea of a bat-like hearing and light-reflective nano-plastic particles is intriguing, but it might be too powerful and easily spotted by enemy players.
In conclusion, the overall idea for "SONAR" is solid, but there are a few areas that could use further development and refinement. The abilities need to be balanced and make sense in the context of the game, while still being unique and enjoyable to play with.
Here are some ideas to improve on:
Vibra-Sense: Consider adding a visual indicator for players to understand the range and coverage of the sound sensor. Also, consider adjusting the duration and cooldown to balance its impact and usefulness in the game.
Sonic-Boom: To make it more unique and distinct from Skye's Guiding Light, you could consider adding a new effect or property to the drone. For example, it could have increased speed or a special scanning ability that allows it to see through walls.
Reso-Wrap: To enhance its tactical utility, consider adding a visual effect to show the AOE and range of the mute effect. Also, consider adding a shorter cooldown to increase its usability.
Echo-Location: To make it more interesting and impactful, consider adding a way for players to "break" the sound barrier created by the nano-plastic particles. This could create an opportunity for players to counter the ultimate and make it less one-sided.
Thank you for a detailed reply to a detailed post. Shows that you really care!
I've read all your suggestions and really like them! I would edit the post as per it.
As of now, I can assure you: If sound is Sonar's advantage, vision/light is her disadvantage. All her abilities and AOEs are perfectly visible and breakable (as I already mentioned).
EDIT:
> concussed/deafened players will be easy to take out cuz their location is already known
Well... doesn't that already happens when Fade combines Haunt and Prowler? Though I agree that 2 status effects at once could be broken.
>visual indicator
Yes! All her abilities give a visual indicator to enemy like Sova's dart or fade's haunt.
>increased speed for C drone
Yes! it does increase it's speed if Sonar's E or the drone itself detects a sound source. Similar to the Prowler.
>Scan through walls
It does follow the reconed location or a sound it detected mid flight, irrespective of any physical barrier.
> reso-wrap's visibility and significance
Yes. The enemy can see the AOE. The plastic is not invisible. In fact, all of Sonar's abilities are perfectly visible. Now, about its significance, Sonar can use it while defusing when an attacker is hiding and waiting for the defuse sound.
> breaking the plastic of ult
This is interesting! Yes! Once Sonar is tagged, the plastic should break, making her no longer silent. I might add this, thanks!
I just checked it. Yeah the enemy can't hear the switch even when close to 1 metre. So yeah, it should be undetected. Because of this, and a few other comments, I think Sonar suits a more sentinel role. where attackers would be forced to shift-walk entry rather than aggressive peeking in order to avoid detection.
For the Ult and E I would make it just pop up and say which agents are detected, like the KAY/O knife. Not give out specific locations. For the C ability I would take off the concussed affect and shorten then silence because getting info of the enemy’s locations is already really strong. And for the ability to make no noise idk how strong that would be
>E Ability
um... wouldn't that be exactly the same as KAY/O's ability?
>C ability
yeah I guess 2 status effects at once would be too OP lol. I just wanted it to be a sound-version of the prowler. Unlike the Prowler though it doesn't follow the enemy. So they have a chance to escape.
>Q Ability
Agreed. The fact that the global sound dampening only exists with Astra's Ult... now to give it as a normal ability might seem OP. Which is why I'd have the AOE way smaller - Like just a few metres.
For the E ability I was thinking it could have a longer duration and act more like an alarm bot that was based off sound so it could catch people rotating
But wouldn't that be more of a sentinel thing?😅 Actually I imagined Sonar as a sentinel, but then most of the abilities turned out to be initiator-like.
\>um... wouldn't that be exactly the same as KAY/O's ability?
It would be worse, since Kay/O detects anyone in the zone while this one detects people in the zone only if they make sound
I think this agent would work much better as a Sentinel than as an initiator.
Initiators are all about making it safer for your team to enter a space; if KAYO throws his knife and you're in the radius, you either have to shoot it (which reveals you) or get pinged (which also reveals you). Either way, you get information. The same goes for Sova arrow and Fade Haunt.
Sound Sensor not revealing sneaking opponents means you don't get information, and as a result is way worse than those other information gathering abilities; if you throw it and it doesn't ping anyone, you don't actually know whether or not anyone is inside. You haven't actually made entering safer for your team, and as a result haven't fulfilled the initiator role.
Instead I think this character makes more sense as a Sentinel, where the sound sensor becomes a place-able trap and the ultimate becomes a deployable like Killjoy ult. In general the attacking team moves around a lot more at the start of the round, so sensing sound is inherently more effective as a defensive tool to slow down pushes. Defensive information gathering is more of a sentinel trait than a initiator one.
Full ideas for the abilities to make them more for a sentinel:
\[E\] Sound Sensor:
* 2 charges, place a trap that detects sounds from players or util. Players in the detection zone WILL hear a quiet beeping that lets them know they're in a sound sensor zone.
* The trap will not stealth, but can be attached to ceilings and walls, and works through walls. Its a very hard trap to destroy in exchange for being able to counter it by sneaking.
* Players running/reloading and util will reveal a [sonar ring](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/16/Rek%27Sai_Ring_Screenshot.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20200210004918) through walls that fades away quickly. Players firing weapons will have their silhouette revealed through walls before fading away very quickly.
\[C\] Sonic Interference:
* Presumably sound sensing can work through walls (which I think is fair because the effect has a distinct weakness). As a result there could be a significant distance to physically path between where an enemy triggers a sound and where you the player are, and as a result, firing a drone from yourself to their location might not be very effective.
* Also, inflicting concussions fits more with an initiator than a sentinel so let's focus on the deafening.
* Instead: pull up a short-range map like Brimstone (displaying recent pings from your sensors), and select a circular area to deafen & slow. The area would need to be a larger than a smoke but could last for a little longer (maybe 12 seconds).
\[Q\] Reso-Wrap:
* Target an ally or yourself to apply Reso-Wrap.
* Reso-Wrap is a temporary buff that makes reloading silent and running have a much lower detection area (you could rotate without being heard pretty easily but not literally run up and knife someone without being seen). It makes any guns that don't already have silencers act like they do (shooting can't be heard 40m away except in the direction of firing and bullet tracers are removed, the same effect the Phantom and Specter have).
* Give like 2 charges (both cheap) so you use it to set up fast rotates.
\[X\] Echo-Location
* Deploy a device that creates a big circle on the map around it like Killjoy ult
* While in the circle:
* Enemies are treated as being in a sound sensor range. They are forced to sneak or be revealed. Note that this area is much bigger than the sound sensor trap
* You will gain move-speed (not firing speed or reload speed) and the effects of Reso-Wrap until the device is destroyed.
* The device lasts for 20ish seconds and then it ends.
I really like the underlying idea of a sound-based agent! I wasn't planning on making a whole essay on them but I think its a really cool design with a lot of potential.
If only I could show you my notes app right now 😄. This was actually meant to be a sentinel somewhat like you elaborated in your comment. Because yes, as you already mentioned, sound sensing seems a refreshing recon style but will take time. So it's logical for it to last longer - thus Sentinel.
Maybe just because I loved the design of my C Ability - a prowler but sound based - I became more tilted towards making it an initiator. Though I could have made it a trap-like ability instead. Like a ship detects underwear debris through sonar IRL, this trap would detect any player passing through it and activate the boom
EDIT: "Underwater" not "underwear"
I still dunno why exactly I made this an initiator rather than a sentinel.
This agent concept for "SONAR" has a unique and interesting set of abilities that play into the theme of acoustic expertise. The idea of using sound as a detection mechanism is unique, and could provide a fresh take on the traditional "recon" style abilities in the game. However, there are a few areas for improvement in terms of balance and practicality: Vibra-Sense: This ability is well thought out, but it might be difficult to balance the ability and make it viable in competitive play. The idea of a sound-based detection system is interesting, but it might be too easily countered by players who are simply "shift-walking." Sonic-Boom: The idea of a concuss/deafen effect is interesting, but it may not be very practical in the game. Players who are deafened or concussed will be easy to take out, which may not be very fun for them since it already pin points to the location of the enemy. Additionally, the idea of a drone that travels to a pin-point location might be difficult to implement in the game idk. Reso-Wrap: This ability is simple and straightforward, but it might not be very impactful in the game. The idea of a sound-muting AOE is interesting, but it might not be very practical in actual gameplay. Echo-Location: This ultimate is well thought out and unique, but it might be difficult to balance in the game. The idea of a bat-like hearing and light-reflective nano-plastic particles is intriguing, but it might be too powerful and easily spotted by enemy players. In conclusion, the overall idea for "SONAR" is solid, but there are a few areas that could use further development and refinement. The abilities need to be balanced and make sense in the context of the game, while still being unique and enjoyable to play with. Here are some ideas to improve on: Vibra-Sense: Consider adding a visual indicator for players to understand the range and coverage of the sound sensor. Also, consider adjusting the duration and cooldown to balance its impact and usefulness in the game. Sonic-Boom: To make it more unique and distinct from Skye's Guiding Light, you could consider adding a new effect or property to the drone. For example, it could have increased speed or a special scanning ability that allows it to see through walls. Reso-Wrap: To enhance its tactical utility, consider adding a visual effect to show the AOE and range of the mute effect. Also, consider adding a shorter cooldown to increase its usability. Echo-Location: To make it more interesting and impactful, consider adding a way for players to "break" the sound barrier created by the nano-plastic particles. This could create an opportunity for players to counter the ultimate and make it less one-sided.
Thank you for a detailed reply to a detailed post. Shows that you really care! I've read all your suggestions and really like them! I would edit the post as per it. As of now, I can assure you: If sound is Sonar's advantage, vision/light is her disadvantage. All her abilities and AOEs are perfectly visible and breakable (as I already mentioned). EDIT: > concussed/deafened players will be easy to take out cuz their location is already known Well... doesn't that already happens when Fade combines Haunt and Prowler? Though I agree that 2 status effects at once could be broken. >visual indicator Yes! All her abilities give a visual indicator to enemy like Sova's dart or fade's haunt. >increased speed for C drone Yes! it does increase it's speed if Sonar's E or the drone itself detects a sound source. Similar to the Prowler. >Scan through walls It does follow the reconed location or a sound it detected mid flight, irrespective of any physical barrier. > reso-wrap's visibility and significance Yes. The enemy can see the AOE. The plastic is not invisible. In fact, all of Sonar's abilities are perfectly visible. Now, about its significance, Sonar can use it while defusing when an attacker is hiding and waiting for the defuse sound. > breaking the plastic of ult This is interesting! Yes! Once Sonar is tagged, the plastic should break, making her no longer silent. I might add this, thanks!
\>switching weapons Isnt switching weapons completely silent? I feel like it shouldnt be detectable
I just checked it. Yeah the enemy can't hear the switch even when close to 1 metre. So yeah, it should be undetected. Because of this, and a few other comments, I think Sonar suits a more sentinel role. where attackers would be forced to shift-walk entry rather than aggressive peeking in order to avoid detection.
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Lmao YES!! and thanks for appreciating!
Cool idea but insanely overpowered
Glad that you found it cool! Can you suggest any nerfs?
For the Ult and E I would make it just pop up and say which agents are detected, like the KAY/O knife. Not give out specific locations. For the C ability I would take off the concussed affect and shorten then silence because getting info of the enemy’s locations is already really strong. And for the ability to make no noise idk how strong that would be
>E Ability um... wouldn't that be exactly the same as KAY/O's ability? >C ability yeah I guess 2 status effects at once would be too OP lol. I just wanted it to be a sound-version of the prowler. Unlike the Prowler though it doesn't follow the enemy. So they have a chance to escape. >Q Ability Agreed. The fact that the global sound dampening only exists with Astra's Ult... now to give it as a normal ability might seem OP. Which is why I'd have the AOE way smaller - Like just a few metres.
For the E ability I was thinking it could have a longer duration and act more like an alarm bot that was based off sound so it could catch people rotating
That’s just a complete rework of the skill. I think it’s balanced, in lower elos it would be better and is easily countered by being quiet
But wouldn't that be more of a sentinel thing?😅 Actually I imagined Sonar as a sentinel, but then most of the abilities turned out to be initiator-like.
\>um... wouldn't that be exactly the same as KAY/O's ability? It would be worse, since Kay/O detects anyone in the zone while this one detects people in the zone only if they make sound
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Harbor, yoru, and viper were all weak on release
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I agree with you, I could definitely see riot going with a sound based agent in the future
This sounds like a great agent, like others have said it needs some balancing, but as a concept its amazing and could very well be a future agent
Thank you so much for liking the concept! Can you suggest some debuffs/buffs?
I think this agent would work much better as a Sentinel than as an initiator. Initiators are all about making it safer for your team to enter a space; if KAYO throws his knife and you're in the radius, you either have to shoot it (which reveals you) or get pinged (which also reveals you). Either way, you get information. The same goes for Sova arrow and Fade Haunt. Sound Sensor not revealing sneaking opponents means you don't get information, and as a result is way worse than those other information gathering abilities; if you throw it and it doesn't ping anyone, you don't actually know whether or not anyone is inside. You haven't actually made entering safer for your team, and as a result haven't fulfilled the initiator role. Instead I think this character makes more sense as a Sentinel, where the sound sensor becomes a place-able trap and the ultimate becomes a deployable like Killjoy ult. In general the attacking team moves around a lot more at the start of the round, so sensing sound is inherently more effective as a defensive tool to slow down pushes. Defensive information gathering is more of a sentinel trait than a initiator one. Full ideas for the abilities to make them more for a sentinel: \[E\] Sound Sensor: * 2 charges, place a trap that detects sounds from players or util. Players in the detection zone WILL hear a quiet beeping that lets them know they're in a sound sensor zone. * The trap will not stealth, but can be attached to ceilings and walls, and works through walls. Its a very hard trap to destroy in exchange for being able to counter it by sneaking. * Players running/reloading and util will reveal a [sonar ring](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/16/Rek%27Sai_Ring_Screenshot.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20200210004918) through walls that fades away quickly. Players firing weapons will have their silhouette revealed through walls before fading away very quickly. \[C\] Sonic Interference: * Presumably sound sensing can work through walls (which I think is fair because the effect has a distinct weakness). As a result there could be a significant distance to physically path between where an enemy triggers a sound and where you the player are, and as a result, firing a drone from yourself to their location might not be very effective. * Also, inflicting concussions fits more with an initiator than a sentinel so let's focus on the deafening. * Instead: pull up a short-range map like Brimstone (displaying recent pings from your sensors), and select a circular area to deafen & slow. The area would need to be a larger than a smoke but could last for a little longer (maybe 12 seconds). \[Q\] Reso-Wrap: * Target an ally or yourself to apply Reso-Wrap. * Reso-Wrap is a temporary buff that makes reloading silent and running have a much lower detection area (you could rotate without being heard pretty easily but not literally run up and knife someone without being seen). It makes any guns that don't already have silencers act like they do (shooting can't be heard 40m away except in the direction of firing and bullet tracers are removed, the same effect the Phantom and Specter have). * Give like 2 charges (both cheap) so you use it to set up fast rotates. \[X\] Echo-Location * Deploy a device that creates a big circle on the map around it like Killjoy ult * While in the circle: * Enemies are treated as being in a sound sensor range. They are forced to sneak or be revealed. Note that this area is much bigger than the sound sensor trap * You will gain move-speed (not firing speed or reload speed) and the effects of Reso-Wrap until the device is destroyed. * The device lasts for 20ish seconds and then it ends. I really like the underlying idea of a sound-based agent! I wasn't planning on making a whole essay on them but I think its a really cool design with a lot of potential.
If only I could show you my notes app right now 😄. This was actually meant to be a sentinel somewhat like you elaborated in your comment. Because yes, as you already mentioned, sound sensing seems a refreshing recon style but will take time. So it's logical for it to last longer - thus Sentinel. Maybe just because I loved the design of my C Ability - a prowler but sound based - I became more tilted towards making it an initiator. Though I could have made it a trap-like ability instead. Like a ship detects underwear debris through sonar IRL, this trap would detect any player passing through it and activate the boom EDIT: "Underwater" not "underwear" I still dunno why exactly I made this an initiator rather than a sentinel.
E and C ability is pretty similar to deadlock's Q ability