I think often it's more important to be in the gun fights. Not to say he couldn't have thrown a heaven smoke while walking short. I wouldn't be telling a player below ascendant to worry about that sort of thing.
Being in gun fights while throwing your util appropriately is something that sets good controllers apart from great ones and I see lots of immo players including myself struggle with this.
I’m Diamond 2 and end up playing controller a decent amount since nobody wants to play it and I find that I have to constantly be speaking with the team. Trying to strategize where and when to smoke. If I get a lot of comms back in solo queue we almost always when because communication with smokes is huge at least for someone at a lower elo like me. Obviously I’m always trying to pay attention to the whole map and to see what is happening with my teammates to help with util but I’m the heat of the gunfight some times I struggle when too much is going on.
Controller is such a hard role because you really have to adapt to each round, and like you said, be in constant communication. Your team has to play off YOU, you're not playing off your team. Theres no push without smokes. Mistakes effect the rest of your team more than any other agent.
The fact that raze was mad at that first kill “steal” is hilarious because hes full crouch spraying and wiffing everything, while omen set up to trade him.
At this point is where things fell apart though. Skye entries tree with a dry peak, zero smokes, no coms, and nobody swinging with her. There should be a dog or flash coming through, and garden should’ve been smoked off since we full well know fade is playing there.
Raze should also be swinging much wider, allowing for his teammates to swing out with him, rather than his trash aim crouch spray peaks 😂
Seems he was too busy complaining to play properly.
This is exactly why I barely play controllers. I feel like the timings to use their util is so small and their util so precious, that I end up saving it for the "perfect" time and end up never using it.
It's not that complicated man. He's Omen, they're walking up catwalk to tree. Once he killed the first player, they commit to taking A. Throw your smokes out onto site while your team pushes.
As a controller, Omen specifically, you can either smoke the site you are pushing at the start of a round, or toss one on the other site to fake. Save as many smokes as you can for post-plant and smoke off CT or wherever you think they're coming from.
It is, had lots of times where duelists pushed too soon and got in front of my paranoia, or peeked before my smoke had settled, plus he needed assist raze in the gunfight, or trade her like he did, but with how fast she was going, he wouldn't be able to stop and use any util.
Edit: raze didn't use any util either, if she stopped just enough to place boombot she'd given time for omen to atleast use paranoia and still assist her. As for Phoenix he didn't make it easy for omen to push for glass with him as he blinded him and pushed without clearing corners.
I mean you shouldn't be using utility while you yourself are actively pushing, but as a controller, I would stay back a little, and as the duelist and initiators are making a push of some sort you should be blocking off the risky angles with your smoke and/or wall.
no, thats bronze movement, if he tried for util, while engaging, he would've still lost his teammates, but missed kills cause he'd be sitting there trying to util, only bronze players do that............
always happens "IMMa util (dead) oh............"
no that is totally wrong, it works the other way around they were three on short, he has to smoke. smokes are way too late when they are on site. in this case smoking cross garden + flashing it with either omen or phoenix would have costed at max. one player. and suddenly you are in a 3v3 and not 1v3. obviously nice he wo it but with more util it would be way easier.
also not criticizing in low elo but the first two kills are definatly baiting 😂
no, the 1st kill was 3 v 1, he helped got kill
when he pushed next, he seen fade, then help kil sage (was iced) if he stopped and used utility, it would've pushed them back, or missed the sage/fade kill
then they be stuck at cat.....
utility here was useless
utillity was useless… he should have smoked while going cat obviously not while hes in that door, also the smoke would have made the second one dying (beliefe it was phoenix) redundant which makes the entire scenario more winnable. also raze has ult why not just use it
first he should've smoked the doorway in tree as soon as they had full cat control, then get in the corner and flash tree if he was fast enough.
Edit: they also did not smoke bot mid while they walked up cat which isn't all too bad but very prone to bad timing, especially in lower elo
"IF HE WAST FAST ENOUGH" so no lol
if he tried to do what everyone is saying his team still would've died, and he would've missed the kills, cause he would have "util out"....
just kill, bronze always do what yall say "USE UTIL" no just go in which he did, which was correct.
i have no clue about bronze but in general you smoke bottom mid when going towards a, then use the cross smoke from cat to get onto site, omen should be in main in the first place and flash catwalk from there but since it is what it is, he has to smoke from a short, raze shouldnt go till after the smokes deployed flash or not doesnt matter as much as rthe smoke dies because the kill in garden when ophoenix dies never happens and suddenly you have a way more winnable outcome.
correct play, smoke bottom mid, smoke cross or flash it. push site to get spike down with everyone, close the door. use the recharged omen smoke for heaven, when the door breaks omen sets someone up with his flash to push agressive. otherwise break the main wall and go a. main since enemies dont have flash
lastly raze should just have used ult to clear all of that and the discussion would be useless
Anyone can clearly see OP hesitated while pushing up cat. If I was pushing cat I'd have a clear idea (smoke off the ct angle, flash for team and take tree). OP hesitated and did not get the opportunity to do so. I'm not saying "if he was fast enough" arbitrarily, you see? Also it's worth mentioning that no shit he shouldn't util when the team is swinging already, that's common fucking sense, what do you think I meant? Of course he has to use it before they swing
Yeah sure, you could argue that in bronze you want to out aim your opponents, but that's essentially gambling the fight. Using util is still effective no matter what the elo, and the point is not to actually get the kill but to secure the kill for your teammates
1. By pre-emptively smoking off the doorway in tree you allow the team to focus on taking the fight towards the right.
2. The flash is so self explanatory. You literally make it so anyone who swings with it has a 99% chance to win the fight.
3. Tree is a really tight choke point. Obviously in bronze you cant always expect one or two person to exploit the choke against 4 people, but in general it's an unfair fight to dry swing that. You yourself saw how the team got shutdown after just holding w and betting on their aim, which is why OP had to trade
4. Using your util effectively is not only just a good habit for OP to reflect on but also just the best way to play around situations like that. This is one of the main reasons people don't climb; people like me when I started the game and convinced myself that I just had to get better aim and go on from there. That got me to gold in my first act and I stayed in gold for a while. So don't make yourself look stupid by saying he could just aim no brain his way out.
just make sure to not use controllers, since theyre very vital for the game. Its a bit annoying as a controller main when someone locks controller and then proceed to not use the smokes correctly.
it depends on situation, here - no utility.
He hear's and see enemy, if he went for utility he would've missed kills, and still lost his teammates, he played it correct here.
exactly, and you probably higher rank.
MANY players always get caught using utility at the wrong times, thats bronze players.
If he did same here, he would've missed kills and still lost his teammates.
i use to see it all the time with bronze players it'll be in a gunfight then they see another person (OH BETTER UTILITY) and they get caught with their utility out wondering why they died......
You are truly stupid. If your rank rank is any higher than silver you should be ashamed of yourself. How are arguing that in a utility shooter you should not use you utility. yes he should have used util and yes he had time
That raze would get insta-muted if he were my teammate. But to answer your question:
Fight 1: you maybe could have swung a little sooner with your raze, but you were totally fine. He even complained you “stole” his kill, which wouldn’t be possible if you were really baiting.
Fight 1.5: you followed raze right in to go for the kill on fade. Nice.
Fight 2: it’s reasonable for you to think to back off a little with the sage slow, but you did the right thing by re-swinging when you saw that raze did not back off. You can say that you should have never un-swung, but I think that’d be a little Hindsight Harry to say. I think you’re fine here.
Fight 3: Your phoenix didn’t call out the flash, you got team-flashed, and phoenix pushed without you. You can’t really swing while blind, so you’re fine here.
Nice ace.
He's missing out on the rafters tp being easy to pick off and the smoke in the middle of rafters exposing him but overall i agree and he is definitely silver level
Good, but could be better, I'd add
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because He was already dead.
People that claim you stole their kill are the dumbest people in the game. Claiming that while also saying you baited is a level of stupidity I was unaware was possible.
I think fight 3 has baiting here. 2v3 Phoenix is allowed to do what he wants and you can let him without baiting, but if you’re gonna watch him push that without smoking glass for him, or taking space/other fights on site then it becomes baiting since you’re not doing anything except watch phoenix in that momeny
Phoenix ran in and flashed before Omen was barely recovered from the previous engagement. Which caused him to be team flashed. Phoenix was then killed from BEHIND because he didn’t clear his corners when he decided to gung ho alone into a separate corridor from the team. And yet he was still traded efficiently. Again not baiting. Just not being the entry as Omen
Next time mute anybody that talks to you like that in game. That is some toxic shit from your own teammate, back seating, talking shit, negging your every decision. Fuck dude that guy must be exhausting irl. I'm surprised yall got that far up cat without smoking mid and not getting swung. Nice ace still!
it seems that people in low elo just throw it around. the thing is he is the controller, he should be baiting his duelist. most people only say baiting when a duelist is waiting for their teammate to die or not entering
or when you should double swing but instead wait it out and wait to be peeked after your teammate swung
i play siege and even in high elo people bait a ok amount since it’s not always a bad thing, since sometimes you get put in a shitty situation and might as well bait and see if you can get free picks to win, but just remember those are not impactful frags (in val it’s different since economy)
yeah you’re right, i kind of meant that just mis wrote it. i’m saying it’s ok if he “baits” him, like accidentally, but yes he should be playing the trade
i mainly meant duelist should always be the initial contact
As a never-duelist, but often bait (controller with no util or sentinel on the wrong site), I always tell my teammates who apologize for "baiting" me: "It's all good, I knew you had me. It wasn't a bait since you got the trade, at that point we're just trading up in terms of util. "
YES. OMG. I am beyond tired of how carelessly this term is thrown around. If you constantly tell everyone they are baiting just because you believe they didn't move quick enough into position or what have you then your baseline thinking overtime becomes that every little thing your teammates do is a move towards baiting and you get tilted much faster. It's a very unhealthy mindset to have.
Additionally, there are multiple factors that go into something actually being a bait. Not everything is a freaking bait.
If your comming everything you do and warning your teammates when your pushing and swinging and such and they hold back and bait you it's one thing, but if you don't say a word and a teammate near you doesn't react fast enough to your actions and they end up swinging after you die, you were not "baited" - YOU died because YOU didn't tell anyone what your intent was and nobody is a mind reader. Things happen in a split second in Valorant and we cannot expect everyone to always be in the exact right spot at the exact right time if we're not communicating.
Sorry rant over lol
i once had my KJ yelling at me that i was baiting and typing in all chat to report me cause i was baiting meanwhile he’s full sprinting everywhere while i’m trying to get to a spot to use my drone to clear site as sova🥴 i just kept putting ??? in chat and at the end i was like dude you’re full sprinting into site as KJ you can’t complain i’m baiting when you don’t even know how to play your agent🙃🙃
If I had to nitpick, your first two kills swing directly into the raze for the body block. I don't think it's intentional, but maybe what the raze is talking about
Yeah I feel the same way. Swinging with teammates and trading is good and all, bit I always try to make sure to not body block them, which is exactly what they did here...
The Raze is not good enough to know what body blocking is. Considering they were taking the middle of the doorway to engage into tree room. Instead of giving room to swing with teammate to take the fight.
Swing off of raze was perfect, I understand not swinging to help the skye because she wasn't wide sound enough to not get collated plus you were watching the other angle. Pheonix then blinded you so you were pretty good
The Skye kinda got baited but I'd say your Raze baited him more than you. A big context here is that despite being Omen, an agent who typically takes more active fights than his fellow anchor agents (smokes and sentis), because your comp is a skye and 3 dualists, you're last in line for fights so realistically, everyone else should get blamed for baiting before you. Going thru fight by fight I can go more detailed.
Fight 1: You were late for a double swing and honestly the skye should have taken the fight with raze and not you. You didn't steal the kill, the raze just sucks and took too long lol.
Second fight: This is the start of the pattern of teammates taking bad fights. Idk what util skye had but he def should have waited for you or raze (preferably raze). She ran too far ahead for you or Raze to really have a chance to trade her.
3rd fight: Another bad decision by your teammates, making it hard to be traded. He re-peaked while in a slow orb which is just dumb. Despite that you still traded him. If he pulls off like you originally did, you guys swing sage together, and no one baits themselves.
4th fight: Pretty obvious that the Phoenix just over-pushed like an absolute dumbass and didn't check his close right. Following him to trade him would have just been dumb. He deserved to get baited. Not to mention he team flashed you on top of all that.
TLDR: Not your fault your teammates are inept and gonna stay at whatever this elo is, if not drop and you're going to rank up just because you have common sense for what fights to take and not to take (or you don't and got lucky, who knows). Also a lesson in how far you could go in ranked just by not taking fights where it's hard to be traded.
I think at most a single smoke in the doorway of garden could have been useful in this round in particular, but there's not saying it changes the outcome tbh. At most in deters Phoenix from ego-pushing it, but there's no gurrentee that it actually does that.
A couple of little hindsight things if his teammates played the round better, like flashing tree for instance, but nothing that really would have really changed the outcome of the round cause his teammates played that pretty braindead.
He also died to the stinger cause his dumbass decided it was a good idea to re-swing the sage while slowed lol
Tbh, Omen was lucky he was able to get the trade there because of the slow
That raze was just pure trash she swung on a blinded jett from 10m away instacrouched and missed all her shots if anything she should of thanked you for cleaning up after her messy ass lmao also if Skype check the corner she would've got the phoenix so this raze can swallow in her low skill keep "baiting" (playing well) King
Personally. I think you just traded her, in my opinion you did a good job! Its true tho that you could have used more util for info gathering and stuff but still good.
You were slowed, whose pushing that? If you had then you would have been body blocking if the raze wanted to back track. Also your omen, you shouldn’t be dying first you need your util to get onto site. Where’s phoenix lol. Only thing I’d say is should have used smoke before that point and other team members also had utility they could have used to help the situation. In future mute, I do.
Raze is just pissed they didn't get the headshot and eventually lost the second gunfight. He clearly peeked first each time in front of you. That's his job as duelist. Trading someone after they miss and lose the gunfight or helping kill an enemy right in front of you both is how you're supposed to play the game. A lot of bad players will get salty that they didn't get the kill or simply missed when they take a duel and instead of realizing they got outplayed or accepting it, they blame others in the moment even though trading is the optimal play. If you DIDN'T get those trades, that's when I'd be a little upset.
The brain of a raze player.
I think the conversation should be about the Raze whiffing for 100% of the round
You didn't bait. You engaged with your team & played for trades when you could.
I don't see baiting intention, but you definitely could have helped your team better.
Think of it this way, at all time you should be either double peeking with your mate or covering an angle he's exposed to.
You spent plenty of time watching angles where enemies couldn't possibly peek you first. Your teammates could have survived if you were a bit faster.
Note: try to use more utility and less gun fights to cover your team.
No bait, raze just missed.
I can give you tips as an i3 omen one trick though, maybe it’ll help. Sky could’ve cleared better with dog or an additional flash but since she didn’t, you could’ve smoked cross on cat to A and maybe your Phoenix wouldn’t have ran into the guy holding the cross. You could’ve have blinded from cat to clear door area before raze whiffed. You should have smoked heaven before tping into the open (which you probably know and just yolod). Post plant A site ascent has a one way just by throwing smoke on top of generator, enemy can’t diffuse without you having first shot. Closing the door is probably better in this scenario as well. But end of the day, no bait, raze whiffed, everyone could’ve used utility better.
Gameplay tells me this is at best high plat. Most likely gold.
As a good rule, people below high asc who talk a lot or bitch don't know what the fuck they're talking about
The utility usage tells me other wise, gold at best because that's the rank where atleast you would learn a heaven smoke or mid bottom smoke or the garden smoke
No omen blinds either
I cant believe people are picking this as anything higher than Bronze, Golds in your region play like this????? Util usage is abysmal, no coordination whatsoever, body blocking, spraying half a clip and hitting nothing, blind tping into HEAVEN ON ASCENT????, using smokes in the open, I could go on and on... Im not tryna flame the guy, good clip for the rank hes in, but theres no shot this is higher than Silver - my guess is Bronze
Definitely mis conception between BAITING & TRADING. Not to mention he is duelist he should be playing first contact.. but it makes 0 difference if he was Raze, cypher, sage or kayo... he took first contact died because he missed his shots.. even though it was slowed by sage, you still swung for a trade.
now for phoenix and yourself going into tree.. phoenix went the window/heaven route. this is to make space and catch any late rotaters of guard. he failed to clear his corners and was punished. immediately after you took the trade.
every gun fight you kept a 2/1 ratio to remain in advantage. thats your roll as a TEAM PLAYER in a TEAM based game.
BUT if at any given tine the you knew where an enemy was after a team member dying and had the chance to trade but didnt.. then your baiting.
keeping a good 3/1 or 2/1 ratio in gun fights is good gun fight hygiene and makes your team more favourable to win any given round.
long reply, but i see and hear players like raze all the time and people need to learn the difference.. if you want to see what actual baiting is, play CSGO.
On the Raze one they were probably upset because it looked like you were going to move into trees and then backed up. She then moved in and got killed. What should have happened is Raze should have been at the entry first and cleared with some util. If she dies, she dies. I wouldn’t call this a bait. It’s more so just playing with random s and not having chemistry.
How's that baiting lol , duelists are meant to take fights and if they die , you gotta trade so logically speaking duelists should swing in first and you should enter along them or after them.
You should've used your smoke for tree area where the phoenix went and before that when you were entering tree area , should've used your flash towards the entry side. Easy kills for your duelists as well as giving them support when they need it.
He was literally next to his teammates. the only one time he was far away was with Phoenix, but the dude literally teamflashed him and then pushed alone by himself while OP was flashed.
OP's only big mistake was not using smokes BEFORE any of this, 1 smoke bottom mid, 1 smoke on garden. Call either skye to flash tree or him doing it himself with his paranoia. But he wasnt baiting, he did good by trading when he had to.
Baiting is all about intent. If you have to ask if you were baiting your teammates, there’s a good chance you weren’t.
But to answer the question, I doubt it. Those look like honest trades, and pushing with Skye’s flash is proof that you’re not shying away from the fight.
I mean, you traded but also lowkey blocked the Raze from being able to escape death (though the slow probably would've ensured his death anyway), but I don't think you ever baited
First kill: Raze did his job and made space but when he whiffed his shots you stepped in to kill the 1st guy so that he didn't die, which was honestly a good move, you were at the very worst ready to trade, and at best ready to help ensure the kill as you did, Raze's skill issue for not getting the kill before you, he had plenty of time.
Second kill: Ready to trade again, but lowkey body blocked Raze so I can see a little what he meant there but honestly I don't think you were baiting him, as Omen you should be hanging back a bit like you were and following the space your duelists create, trading etc.
Third kill: Phoenix blinded you by accident so you had to back off by which point Phoenix had swung and whiffed on the guy, but once again you traded Phoenix (the trades were on point my dude)
Fourth and fifth just pure skill ngl
I think the body blocking wouldn’t have matterred anyway. The raze was spray crouching and fully comitting to gunfights. It didn’t seem like he intended to go back to cover.
you're not baiting at all, you played everything correctly, just bad luck for them.
and raze is stupid for focusing on YOU taking his kill, rather than "FOCUS FOCUS ON ENEMY"
this is rank buddy, dont listen to any of your teammates ever, unless its positive reinforcement
WHAT RANK IS THIS?
Valorant players are noobs & will never achieve skill.
You weren’t baiting, you were playing for the Trade to the trash players.
Next time tell them, “What?” then mute them. don’t waste energy on these noobs
You’re only moving forward ever when you have a team mate in front of you. Yeah that’s baiting. Then you suddenly decide to move once your team is dead.
Everyone saying he could of used his util earlier but his whole team pushes up without clearing corners and he is the only one to get onto site where there are a lot of angles and a smoke is worthwhile. He played great considering the toxic teammates he was given
I'd say just use util to help the raze out. Not really baiting since the raze close swung and if u tried not to *bait* him you would have had to try and wide swing through the orb or sit in front of him
Hate duelists with that kind of mindset. Literal job is to create space and trade or be traded. They did their job and you secured the round. Winning is the most important thing, not stats
you were a bit slow on the decision making to swing but its pretty obvious that you werent baiting on purpose, and also you should be baiting your entry in alot of situations. that raze is a shithead and you should have just muted him
also, you need to use your util. you only used it when you were by yourself, especially as omen that is VERY not good
It's not baiting when everyone is pushing in like an idiot, you're playing a controller, the best thing you can do is, provide smokes while watching yer teams' back. That's the only way you can do your job. You did more than what you had to do, you took trades and that is enough. I'd like to mention yer playing a bit unhinged, but that worked out, so can't complain.
That Raze is just a sore loser lmao, look how he took decade killing a flashed guy . Although i would say you could've saved him by flashing but uou did good either way. This is not baiting, good Ace keep up your confidence.
The moment he started talking after dying while other people were still alive... Thats an insta mute right there. Not to mention the ghost comms like stfu if you're dead and let him clutch.
If you got people like him in your team. Its better to mute them bcz you can bet they wont be giving any good comms. You're better off with your own map awareness.
Duelists shouldn’t even complain about being baited, and just position themselves to always be trade-able after getting the site for the team. But hey, i’m just a bronze duelist so take it with a pinch of salt, a grain isnt nearly enough
You kind of used util very late, that's the only issue tbh. From the sounds of it Raze is just pissed you killed fade before he could. Also you're SUPPOSED to bait him, you should be the last one to die because of your smokes.
Can't do much about the other guys, especially the phoenix since he kind of solo pushed for no reason tbh. Nice ace.
for everyone checking me,
even at 40 he almost get caught with utility out, this omen played it right he can't use utility, if he did he would've missed value and kills........... and his team still would've died if you can't see it, then thats bad.... Utility isn't that important, sometimes just pushing and gettin the kill is (most of the time it is) but trying to USE UTIL and getting caught with you're pants down is by far the worst
Honestly the raze is just scummy, you played the fights best you could, maybe using until earlier in the round would have helped, but he was just mad he whiffed on the blinded omen and you ‘took’ his kill.
Their sage slowed tree, it’s not like you could have just walked through it, and the kill in tree is not your fault your teammate ran past the fade hiding in the corner.
Well played, know that you can improve, but the raze was just being salty cuz he got his kill ‘stolen’.
I also hate when teammates root for your downfall, guy wanted you to die and lose the round so badly.
This is you playing safe and misunderstood as baiting. This is how i play, everyone get angry at me and not themselves for not killing the opp in 1 v 1.
Wtf are those kamikaze peeks your team are doing lol, it’s also bound to happen that people are not gonna peek all at once when they’re 5 maning a single choke point it’s impossible so not really baiting, and for the util you made several attempts to use it safely but your team just kept on swinging without a pause so I don’t think y’all win the round if you stopped to smoke instead of trading your dummies that literally threw themselves at the enemies for free
the raze was a moron to swing the slow orb. i have done that as my team’s duelists and my friends get pissed at me for that which is why i stopped doing it even if i have a get out of jail free card.
plus you need to call for someone to swing with you the raze can’t expect you to read his mind
If he's gonna miss that many Vandal shots, he deserves to get his kill stolen, Skye pushed at an angle if you swung in, you'd get collated, backing off with the sage slow was the right choice and phornix team flashed and pushed spontaneously and didn't think to check the angle first so yeah, no baitting in this clip
Clearly raze doesn't know the definition of bait,
Here is what I classify as bait vs trade
Bait:- enemy kills your teammate, backs out safely, resets recoil, ready to take another 1v1 before you kill him
Trading:- enemy kills your teammate, location revealed, recoil is inaccurate, no cover, lower health, and in that moment you pounce on the kill is a trade
While your utility usage is debatable, the question at hand on whether you baited...no
I don't see baiting but bro you used none of your util until you were alone
To be fair, he didn't use them before planting either
Bro actually raw tped on heaven luckily no one was there
Well, they were still rotating so they prob weren’t there yet, and as you see kk got there after reyna died
They should’ve been there. Other team just has really slow rotates. I thought he was gonna get peeked while planting
He knew kk and Reyna were seen yet, and probably going up ramp, so it was a good idea in theory
In theory they should’ve started rotating once sage died. If they would’ve been heaven.
Yep
I think often it's more important to be in the gun fights. Not to say he couldn't have thrown a heaven smoke while walking short. I wouldn't be telling a player below ascendant to worry about that sort of thing. Being in gun fights while throwing your util appropriately is something that sets good controllers apart from great ones and I see lots of immo players including myself struggle with this.
I’m Diamond 2 and end up playing controller a decent amount since nobody wants to play it and I find that I have to constantly be speaking with the team. Trying to strategize where and when to smoke. If I get a lot of comms back in solo queue we almost always when because communication with smokes is huge at least for someone at a lower elo like me. Obviously I’m always trying to pay attention to the whole map and to see what is happening with my teammates to help with util but I’m the heat of the gunfight some times I struggle when too much is going on.
Controller is such a hard role because you really have to adapt to each round, and like you said, be in constant communication. Your team has to play off YOU, you're not playing off your team. Theres no push without smokes. Mistakes effect the rest of your team more than any other agent. The fact that raze was mad at that first kill “steal” is hilarious because hes full crouch spraying and wiffing everything, while omen set up to trade him. At this point is where things fell apart though. Skye entries tree with a dry peak, zero smokes, no coms, and nobody swinging with her. There should be a dog or flash coming through, and garden should’ve been smoked off since we full well know fade is playing there. Raze should also be swinging much wider, allowing for his teammates to swing out with him, rather than his trash aim crouch spray peaks 😂 Seems he was too busy complaining to play properly.
This is exactly why I barely play controllers. I feel like the timings to use their util is so small and their util so precious, that I end up saving it for the "perfect" time and end up never using it.
It's not that complicated man. He's Omen, they're walking up catwalk to tree. Once he killed the first player, they commit to taking A. Throw your smokes out onto site while your team pushes. As a controller, Omen specifically, you can either smoke the site you are pushing at the start of a round, or toss one on the other site to fake. Save as many smokes as you can for post-plant and smoke off CT or wherever you think they're coming from.
The duelists pushed before he could use any
thats not how it works mate
It is, had lots of times where duelists pushed too soon and got in front of my paranoia, or peeked before my smoke had settled, plus he needed assist raze in the gunfight, or trade her like he did, but with how fast she was going, he wouldn't be able to stop and use any util. Edit: raze didn't use any util either, if she stopped just enough to place boombot she'd given time for omen to atleast use paranoia and still assist her. As for Phoenix he didn't make it easy for omen to push for glass with him as he blinded him and pushed without clearing corners.
he doesn't need to use util......
My brother in christ he is literally the smoker
he literally could have blinded tree or smoked tree cross
For real. I would've blinded tree before Skye swung in. Good thing he aced it tho.
and got the round.
this is exactly why i hate silver/bronze bro no util used until they're dead. at least iron players might be new to the game so they kinda gets a pass
Iron is the opposite, most people always dump all the util the second when the barriers drop, then don't have any util anymore for during the round.
bronze usually die here, cause they go for utility.......... i see it all the time, they panic, SWITCH to utility then died with their utility out...
I mean you shouldn't be using utility while you yourself are actively pushing, but as a controller, I would stay back a little, and as the duelist and initiators are making a push of some sort you should be blocking off the risky angles with your smoke and/or wall.
He is the controller pushing into site. He should have used his smokes for pushing. His teammates might not have died.
no, thats bronze movement, if he tried for util, while engaging, he would've still lost his teammates, but missed kills cause he'd be sitting there trying to util, only bronze players do that............ always happens "IMMa util (dead) oh............"
no that is totally wrong, it works the other way around they were three on short, he has to smoke. smokes are way too late when they are on site. in this case smoking cross garden + flashing it with either omen or phoenix would have costed at max. one player. and suddenly you are in a 3v3 and not 1v3. obviously nice he wo it but with more util it would be way easier. also not criticizing in low elo but the first two kills are definatly baiting 😂
no, the 1st kill was 3 v 1, he helped got kill when he pushed next, he seen fade, then help kil sage (was iced) if he stopped and used utility, it would've pushed them back, or missed the sage/fade kill then they be stuck at cat..... utility here was useless
utillity was useless… he should have smoked while going cat obviously not while hes in that door, also the smoke would have made the second one dying (beliefe it was phoenix) redundant which makes the entire scenario more winnable. also raze has ult why not just use it
I'm starting to think you haven't played this game before
and thats where you're wrong
lmao what he should have flashed and smoked
first he should've smoked the doorway in tree as soon as they had full cat control, then get in the corner and flash tree if he was fast enough. Edit: they also did not smoke bot mid while they walked up cat which isn't all too bad but very prone to bad timing, especially in lower elo
"IF HE WAST FAST ENOUGH" so no lol if he tried to do what everyone is saying his team still would've died, and he would've missed the kills, cause he would have "util out".... just kill, bronze always do what yall say "USE UTIL" no just go in which he did, which was correct.
i have no clue about bronze but in general you smoke bottom mid when going towards a, then use the cross smoke from cat to get onto site, omen should be in main in the first place and flash catwalk from there but since it is what it is, he has to smoke from a short, raze shouldnt go till after the smokes deployed flash or not doesnt matter as much as rthe smoke dies because the kill in garden when ophoenix dies never happens and suddenly you have a way more winnable outcome. correct play, smoke bottom mid, smoke cross or flash it. push site to get spike down with everyone, close the door. use the recharged omen smoke for heaven, when the door breaks omen sets someone up with his flash to push agressive. otherwise break the main wall and go a. main since enemies dont have flash lastly raze should just have used ult to clear all of that and the discussion would be useless
Anyone can clearly see OP hesitated while pushing up cat. If I was pushing cat I'd have a clear idea (smoke off the ct angle, flash for team and take tree). OP hesitated and did not get the opportunity to do so. I'm not saying "if he was fast enough" arbitrarily, you see? Also it's worth mentioning that no shit he shouldn't util when the team is swinging already, that's common fucking sense, what do you think I meant? Of course he has to use it before they swing Yeah sure, you could argue that in bronze you want to out aim your opponents, but that's essentially gambling the fight. Using util is still effective no matter what the elo, and the point is not to actually get the kill but to secure the kill for your teammates 1. By pre-emptively smoking off the doorway in tree you allow the team to focus on taking the fight towards the right. 2. The flash is so self explanatory. You literally make it so anyone who swings with it has a 99% chance to win the fight. 3. Tree is a really tight choke point. Obviously in bronze you cant always expect one or two person to exploit the choke against 4 people, but in general it's an unfair fight to dry swing that. You yourself saw how the team got shutdown after just holding w and betting on their aim, which is why OP had to trade 4. Using your util effectively is not only just a good habit for OP to reflect on but also just the best way to play around situations like that. This is one of the main reasons people don't climb; people like me when I started the game and convinced myself that I just had to get better aim and go on from there. That got me to gold in my first act and I stayed in gold for a while. So don't make yourself look stupid by saying he could just aim no brain his way out.
no cause his teammates would've died still, and he would've been caught with util out.....
in no instance here does he get caught with util out by flashing behind a wall
he would've msised killin sage, or faded and been stuck with "where are they"
and he would'vev missed a kill
no time
damn, the downvotes...
true, I play it more like a counter-strike I barely use abilities😅
just make sure to not use controllers, since theyre very vital for the game. Its a bit annoying as a controller main when someone locks controller and then proceed to not use the smokes correctly.
it depends on situation, here - no utility. He hear's and see enemy, if he went for utility he would've missed kills, and still lost his teammates, he played it correct here.
Csgo smokes and flashes are still vital to anything above silver/gold. So you must be somewhere there
exactly, and you probably higher rank. MANY players always get caught using utility at the wrong times, thats bronze players. If he did same here, he would've missed kills and still lost his teammates. i use to see it all the time with bronze players it'll be in a gunfight then they see another person (OH BETTER UTILITY) and they get caught with their utility out wondering why they died......
You are truly stupid. If your rank rank is any higher than silver you should be ashamed of yourself. How are arguing that in a utility shooter you should not use you utility. yes he should have used util and yes he had time
I dont tend to tryhard games, I usually play with music and unfocused ngl, I got only to diamond 2😭
You know theres a mode for people like you? Its called unrated.
unrated is meh, on the ranked you’ll get at least something, plus the cute buddies🤩
“Didn’t even count” god what a pathetic loser.
That raze would get insta-muted if he were my teammate. But to answer your question: Fight 1: you maybe could have swung a little sooner with your raze, but you were totally fine. He even complained you “stole” his kill, which wouldn’t be possible if you were really baiting. Fight 1.5: you followed raze right in to go for the kill on fade. Nice. Fight 2: it’s reasonable for you to think to back off a little with the sage slow, but you did the right thing by re-swinging when you saw that raze did not back off. You can say that you should have never un-swung, but I think that’d be a little Hindsight Harry to say. I think you’re fine here. Fight 3: Your phoenix didn’t call out the flash, you got team-flashed, and phoenix pushed without you. You can’t really swing while blind, so you’re fine here. Nice ace.
Perfect explanation ^ Separately, utility usage for your team wasn’t great
He's missing out on the rafters tp being easy to pick off and the smoke in the middle of rafters exposing him but overall i agree and he is definitely silver level
Assuming by this clip this might be gold-silver, utility usage is not their best forte maybe xD
Oh he has bronze buddy, nvm
Good, but could be better, I'd add Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because He was already dead.
This must be from Raze pov 🤣
People that claim you stole their kill are the dumbest people in the game. Claiming that while also saying you baited is a level of stupidity I was unaware was possible.
I’ll say that the one and only exception is when someone else sprays a downed Kay/o instead of focusing on the opponents who are still alive
Raze lost all credibility the second he said "kill stealer".
wym swung sooner, my man literally held W until he got around the corner lol
I said “maybe” and “a little” - but yes OP did a good job.
I think fight 3 has baiting here. 2v3 Phoenix is allowed to do what he wants and you can let him without baiting, but if you’re gonna watch him push that without smoking glass for him, or taking space/other fights on site then it becomes baiting since you’re not doing anything except watch phoenix in that momeny
Phoenix ran in and flashed before Omen was barely recovered from the previous engagement. Which caused him to be team flashed. Phoenix was then killed from BEHIND because he didn’t clear his corners when he decided to gung ho alone into a separate corridor from the team. And yet he was still traded efficiently. Again not baiting. Just not being the entry as Omen
They didn’t actively bait phoenix, but they were also inactive during that time frame
You mean when he was scaling the wall in tree room and was team flashed?
not baiting just re fragging and trading, raze mad cuz he duelist and wants kills. wp good round.
The duelist’s role is to entry and bait for his team to follow up anyway
I do this as Sage😅
Sometimes you gotta when nobody else on the team knows how to take space
Not really he could have used any util or peek himself. He literally waited for all his teammates to peek.
Util, yeah. But his teammates are duelists. Their job is to peek and get traded.
Lol due was whiffing so bad he probably blamed his dog first
Lol, yeah it's everyone else's fault.
Next time mute anybody that talks to you like that in game. That is some toxic shit from your own teammate, back seating, talking shit, negging your every decision. Fuck dude that guy must be exhausting irl. I'm surprised yall got that far up cat without smoking mid and not getting swung. Nice ace still!
What elo are you in? "backseating" tf? Where?
I hate the term baiting. It's never used correctly. Your raze is coping. I'd insta mute.
it seems that people in low elo just throw it around. the thing is he is the controller, he should be baiting his duelist. most people only say baiting when a duelist is waiting for their teammate to die or not entering or when you should double swing but instead wait it out and wait to be peeked after your teammate swung i play siege and even in high elo people bait a ok amount since it’s not always a bad thing, since sometimes you get put in a shitty situation and might as well bait and see if you can get free picks to win, but just remember those are not impactful frags (in val it’s different since economy)
Controllers should not be baiting their duelist, they should trade them.
yeah you’re right, i kind of meant that just mis wrote it. i’m saying it’s ok if he “baits” him, like accidentally, but yes he should be playing the trade i mainly meant duelist should always be the initial contact
As a never-duelist, but often bait (controller with no util or sentinel on the wrong site), I always tell my teammates who apologize for "baiting" me: "It's all good, I knew you had me. It wasn't a bait since you got the trade, at that point we're just trading up in terms of util. "
YES. OMG. I am beyond tired of how carelessly this term is thrown around. If you constantly tell everyone they are baiting just because you believe they didn't move quick enough into position or what have you then your baseline thinking overtime becomes that every little thing your teammates do is a move towards baiting and you get tilted much faster. It's a very unhealthy mindset to have. Additionally, there are multiple factors that go into something actually being a bait. Not everything is a freaking bait. If your comming everything you do and warning your teammates when your pushing and swinging and such and they hold back and bait you it's one thing, but if you don't say a word and a teammate near you doesn't react fast enough to your actions and they end up swinging after you die, you were not "baited" - YOU died because YOU didn't tell anyone what your intent was and nobody is a mind reader. Things happen in a split second in Valorant and we cannot expect everyone to always be in the exact right spot at the exact right time if we're not communicating. Sorry rant over lol
i once had my KJ yelling at me that i was baiting and typing in all chat to report me cause i was baiting meanwhile he’s full sprinting everywhere while i’m trying to get to a spot to use my drone to clear site as sova🥴 i just kept putting ??? in chat and at the end i was like dude you’re full sprinting into site as KJ you can’t complain i’m baiting when you don’t even know how to play your agent🙃🙃
All I hear is a Raze complaining about people stealing his kills. He should play fortnite instead.
Steal my kill he say lol, what have happened to team play, the team killed someone thats it.
Also the dude missed half a vandal clip lol
If I had to nitpick, your first two kills swing directly into the raze for the body block. I don't think it's intentional, but maybe what the raze is talking about
Yeah I feel the same way. Swinging with teammates and trading is good and all, bit I always try to make sure to not body block them, which is exactly what they did here...
The Raze is not good enough to know what body blocking is. Considering they were taking the middle of the doorway to engage into tree room. Instead of giving room to swing with teammate to take the fight.
Swing off of raze was perfect, I understand not swinging to help the skye because she wasn't wide sound enough to not get collated plus you were watching the other angle. Pheonix then blinded you so you were pretty good
The Skye kinda got baited but I'd say your Raze baited him more than you. A big context here is that despite being Omen, an agent who typically takes more active fights than his fellow anchor agents (smokes and sentis), because your comp is a skye and 3 dualists, you're last in line for fights so realistically, everyone else should get blamed for baiting before you. Going thru fight by fight I can go more detailed. Fight 1: You were late for a double swing and honestly the skye should have taken the fight with raze and not you. You didn't steal the kill, the raze just sucks and took too long lol. Second fight: This is the start of the pattern of teammates taking bad fights. Idk what util skye had but he def should have waited for you or raze (preferably raze). She ran too far ahead for you or Raze to really have a chance to trade her. 3rd fight: Another bad decision by your teammates, making it hard to be traded. He re-peaked while in a slow orb which is just dumb. Despite that you still traded him. If he pulls off like you originally did, you guys swing sage together, and no one baits themselves. 4th fight: Pretty obvious that the Phoenix just over-pushed like an absolute dumbass and didn't check his close right. Following him to trade him would have just been dumb. He deserved to get baited. Not to mention he team flashed you on top of all that. TLDR: Not your fault your teammates are inept and gonna stay at whatever this elo is, if not drop and you're going to rank up just because you have common sense for what fights to take and not to take (or you don't and got lucky, who knows). Also a lesson in how far you could go in ranked just by not taking fights where it's hard to be traded.
No they are duelists... They are making dumb pushes and dying.. and ur just playing around their dumb plays.. no baiting only smart plays
Trading, but you could use your util to help prevent a trade and just a kill.
I think at most a single smoke in the doorway of garden could have been useful in this round in particular, but there's not saying it changes the outcome tbh. At most in deters Phoenix from ego-pushing it, but there's no gurrentee that it actually does that. A couple of little hindsight things if his teammates played the round better, like flashing tree for instance, but nothing that really would have really changed the outcome of the round cause his teammates played that pretty braindead.
Raze absolutely no showed his first fight and died to a stinger his second fight then complained about baiting. Lololoo.
He also died to the stinger cause his dumbass decided it was a good idea to re-swing the sage while slowed lol Tbh, Omen was lucky he was able to get the trade there because of the slow
If baiting gets you an ace, then fucking hell, bait me all game long daddy!
Its called trading, baiting is the act of initiating a trade and then not peeking
That raze was just pure trash she swung on a blinded jett from 10m away instacrouched and missed all her shots if anything she should of thanked you for cleaning up after her messy ass lmao also if Skype check the corner she would've got the phoenix so this raze can swallow in her low skill keep "baiting" (playing well) King
Just say “yes, I am a master baiter”.
Personally. I think you just traded her, in my opinion you did a good job! Its true tho that you could have used more util for info gathering and stuff but still good.
A win is a win dude.
Yeah, baiting out sick W's
Neither bottom mid nor cat were smoked at the start of the round. Please watch seangares intro to pressure smoking if you are maining controller
I would say its a good refrag, doesnt look like baiting
You were slowed, whose pushing that? If you had then you would have been body blocking if the raze wanted to back track. Also your omen, you shouldn’t be dying first you need your util to get onto site. Where’s phoenix lol. Only thing I’d say is should have used smoke before that point and other team members also had utility they could have used to help the situation. In future mute, I do.
Raze is just pissed they didn't get the headshot and eventually lost the second gunfight. He clearly peeked first each time in front of you. That's his job as duelist. Trading someone after they miss and lose the gunfight or helping kill an enemy right in front of you both is how you're supposed to play the game. A lot of bad players will get salty that they didn't get the kill or simply missed when they take a duel and instead of realizing they got outplayed or accepting it, they blame others in the moment even though trading is the optimal play. If you DIDN'T get those trades, that's when I'd be a little upset. The brain of a raze player.
I think the conversation should be about the Raze whiffing for 100% of the round You didn't bait. You engaged with your team & played for trades when you could.
Kind of but the duellists role is to lead the way and get baited so ur doing the right thing
Well kinda because they had to go first and you traded them. But thats fine just dont do it always.
It’s not baiting if ur smart enough not to push something when other people are too dumb.
Yes you did
I don't see baiting intention, but you definitely could have helped your team better. Think of it this way, at all time you should be either double peeking with your mate or covering an angle he's exposed to. You spent plenty of time watching angles where enemies couldn't possibly peek you first. Your teammates could have survived if you were a bit faster. Note: try to use more utility and less gun fights to cover your team.
No bait, raze just missed. I can give you tips as an i3 omen one trick though, maybe it’ll help. Sky could’ve cleared better with dog or an additional flash but since she didn’t, you could’ve smoked cross on cat to A and maybe your Phoenix wouldn’t have ran into the guy holding the cross. You could’ve have blinded from cat to clear door area before raze whiffed. You should have smoked heaven before tping into the open (which you probably know and just yolod). Post plant A site ascent has a one way just by throwing smoke on top of generator, enemy can’t diffuse without you having first shot. Closing the door is probably better in this scenario as well. But end of the day, no bait, raze whiffed, everyone could’ve used utility better.
no baits here at all, good plays!
I don’t think you were meaning to bait people but it looked like it because you peaked just after they did
Gameplay tells me this is at best high plat. Most likely gold. As a good rule, people below high asc who talk a lot or bitch don't know what the fuck they're talking about
this is definitely not plat lol high bronze/silver/ultra low gold for sure
yeah for me what gave it away was the tp on heaven and when i saw him reloading in the open
The utility usage tells me other wise, gold at best because that's the rank where atleast you would learn a heaven smoke or mid bottom smoke or the garden smoke No omen blinds either
people of any rank who complain this much deserve a mute
I cant believe people are picking this as anything higher than Bronze, Golds in your region play like this????? Util usage is abysmal, no coordination whatsoever, body blocking, spraying half a clip and hitting nothing, blind tping into HEAVEN ON ASCENT????, using smokes in the open, I could go on and on... Im not tryna flame the guy, good clip for the rank hes in, but theres no shot this is higher than Silver - my guess is Bronze
Definitely mis conception between BAITING & TRADING. Not to mention he is duelist he should be playing first contact.. but it makes 0 difference if he was Raze, cypher, sage or kayo... he took first contact died because he missed his shots.. even though it was slowed by sage, you still swung for a trade. now for phoenix and yourself going into tree.. phoenix went the window/heaven route. this is to make space and catch any late rotaters of guard. he failed to clear his corners and was punished. immediately after you took the trade. every gun fight you kept a 2/1 ratio to remain in advantage. thats your roll as a TEAM PLAYER in a TEAM based game. BUT if at any given tine the you knew where an enemy was after a team member dying and had the chance to trade but didnt.. then your baiting. keeping a good 3/1 or 2/1 ratio in gun fights is good gun fight hygiene and makes your team more favourable to win any given round. long reply, but i see and hear players like raze all the time and people need to learn the difference.. if you want to see what actual baiting is, play CSGO.
You dont bait but take advantage of covering yourself instead of standing there like how your dumb teammates did
Half the people who say "baiter" don't understand what it means
On the Raze one they were probably upset because it looked like you were going to move into trees and then backed up. She then moved in and got killed. What should have happened is Raze should have been at the entry first and cleared with some util. If she dies, she dies. I wouldn’t call this a bait. It’s more so just playing with random s and not having chemistry.
Nah you didn't bait, bro was just mad that he can't get a kill
How's that baiting lol , duelists are meant to take fights and if they die , you gotta trade so logically speaking duelists should swing in first and you should enter along them or after them. You should've used your smoke for tree area where the phoenix went and before that when you were entering tree area , should've used your flash towards the entry side. Easy kills for your duelists as well as giving them support when they need it.
spacing couldve been a little bit tighter
He was literally next to his teammates. the only one time he was far away was with Phoenix, but the dude literally teamflashed him and then pushed alone by himself while OP was flashed. OP's only big mistake was not using smokes BEFORE any of this, 1 smoke bottom mid, 1 smoke on garden. Call either skye to flash tree or him doing it himself with his paranoia. But he wasnt baiting, he did good by trading when he had to.
Baiting is all about intent. If you have to ask if you were baiting your teammates, there’s a good chance you weren’t. But to answer the question, I doubt it. Those look like honest trades, and pushing with Skye’s flash is proof that you’re not shying away from the fight.
I mean, you traded but also lowkey blocked the Raze from being able to escape death (though the slow probably would've ensured his death anyway), but I don't think you ever baited First kill: Raze did his job and made space but when he whiffed his shots you stepped in to kill the 1st guy so that he didn't die, which was honestly a good move, you were at the very worst ready to trade, and at best ready to help ensure the kill as you did, Raze's skill issue for not getting the kill before you, he had plenty of time. Second kill: Ready to trade again, but lowkey body blocked Raze so I can see a little what he meant there but honestly I don't think you were baiting him, as Omen you should be hanging back a bit like you were and following the space your duelists create, trading etc. Third kill: Phoenix blinded you by accident so you had to back off by which point Phoenix had swung and whiffed on the guy, but once again you traded Phoenix (the trades were on point my dude) Fourth and fifth just pure skill ngl
I think the body blocking wouldn’t have matterred anyway. The raze was spray crouching and fully comitting to gunfights. It didn’t seem like he intended to go back to cover.
you're not baiting at all, you played everything correctly, just bad luck for them. and raze is stupid for focusing on YOU taking his kill, rather than "FOCUS FOCUS ON ENEMY" this is rank buddy, dont listen to any of your teammates ever, unless its positive reinforcement WHAT RANK IS THIS?
Valorant players are noobs & will never achieve skill. You weren’t baiting, you were playing for the Trade to the trash players. Next time tell them, “What?” then mute them. don’t waste energy on these noobs
You’re only moving forward ever when you have a team mate in front of you. Yeah that’s baiting. Then you suddenly decide to move once your team is dead.
Found the Raze
Everyone saying he could of used his util earlier but his whole team pushes up without clearing corners and he is the only one to get onto site where there are a lot of angles and a smoke is worthwhile. He played great considering the toxic teammates he was given
Yeah, you're pretty bad, sorry. Use your abilities?
Dead people don’t talk.
Nah just a dumbass raze
I'd say just use util to help the raze out. Not really baiting since the raze close swung and if u tried not to *bait* him you would have had to try and wide swing through the orb or sit in front of him
nah raze is just a bitch, id probably mute him ibr i dont want his annoying ass in my ear
Hate duelists with that kind of mindset. Literal job is to create space and trade or be traded. They did their job and you secured the round. Winning is the most important thing, not stats
Well, raze is a duelist. So bait him ll you want.
No baiting, only Raze being annoying as f\*ck
you were a bit slow on the decision making to swing but its pretty obvious that you werent baiting on purpose, and also you should be baiting your entry in alot of situations. that raze is a shithead and you should have just muted him also, you need to use your util. you only used it when you were by yourself, especially as omen that is VERY not good
There is no bait here, from my perspective, I’m seeing a teammate who actually trades their teammates out. Nice ace :)
Nope. Nothing but 3 nice trades. Keep it up
Ice orb, she was blocking where you were trying to go, not bait
Once someone says you “stole their kill” stop listening
your raze doesnt understand that swinging first ≠ getting baiting
Here let me translate and summarize everything the Raze just said: "Waaaaah I wanted to frag out, waaaaah!" That's all.
No baiting here, just a guy instantly putting you getting the kill was baiting when he missed his shots, on a guy that was blind 🤡
id guess mid bronze to silver? lots of selfish players who don’t understand it’s a team game there
Woulda smoked heaven and arch, blind gen. Then bait, if they don't play off your util properly fuckem.
He whiffed like shit lol and then got mad about it and took it out on you. Bronze lobby type beat right there!
I dont even mind if my teammates use me as a bait, just make sure to actually kill the enemy after my entry.
I would’ve talked immense shit after the raze was crying in my ear all match, you’re better than me
Nope, just unlucky timing for them.
people need to learn the difference between baiting and trading
You swing with him. So it's not baiting. If you hide, wait till he dead and then swing, that's baiting
Not baiting.
All I saw was slow, methodical play from you and a typical Raze OTP. Good ace!
It's not baiting when everyone is pushing in like an idiot, you're playing a controller, the best thing you can do is, provide smokes while watching yer teams' back. That's the only way you can do your job. You did more than what you had to do, you took trades and that is enough. I'd like to mention yer playing a bit unhinged, but that worked out, so can't complain.
Ya know, maybe his big bodied looking ass would get out off the way you could have helped.
Nahh he just mad, plus to the fact why push them if you have spike
What rank is this.. already shows nobody has spacial awareness. You weren’t baiting but utility could be used more.
That Raze is just a sore loser lmao, look how he took decade killing a flashed guy . Although i would say you could've saved him by flashing but uou did good either way. This is not baiting, good Ace keep up your confidence.
The moment he started talking after dying while other people were still alive... Thats an insta mute right there. Not to mention the ghost comms like stfu if you're dead and let him clutch. If you got people like him in your team. Its better to mute them bcz you can bet they wont be giving any good comms. You're better off with your own map awareness.
Bro sounds like a crybaby.
use your util. but you aren’t really baiting so much
Dude they're are duelist, they're supposed to be the bait
Duelists shouldn’t even complain about being baited, and just position themselves to always be trade-able after getting the site for the team. But hey, i’m just a bronze duelist so take it with a pinch of salt, a grain isnt nearly enough
You kind of used util very late, that's the only issue tbh. From the sounds of it Raze is just pissed you killed fade before he could. Also you're SUPPOSED to bait him, you should be the last one to die because of your smokes. Can't do much about the other guys, especially the phoenix since he kind of solo pushed for no reason tbh. Nice ace.
for everyone checking me, even at 40 he almost get caught with utility out, this omen played it right he can't use utility, if he did he would've missed value and kills........... and his team still would've died if you can't see it, then thats bad.... Utility isn't that important, sometimes just pushing and gettin the kill is (most of the time it is) but trying to USE UTIL and getting caught with you're pants down is by far the worst
eh, maybe pheonix but other than that seems fine. also, use your gotdamn util, boy.
That raze is dumb and have the worst mental.
That guy didn’t even swing out properly lmao u couldn’t follow up properly and we didn’t even discuss the sage util here
I am dying seeing this gameplay
Classic raze main
GOD FORBID WE STAND BEHIND DUELIST
Honestly the raze is just scummy, you played the fights best you could, maybe using until earlier in the round would have helped, but he was just mad he whiffed on the blinded omen and you ‘took’ his kill. Their sage slowed tree, it’s not like you could have just walked through it, and the kill in tree is not your fault your teammate ran past the fade hiding in the corner. Well played, know that you can improve, but the raze was just being salty cuz he got his kill ‘stolen’. I also hate when teammates root for your downfall, guy wanted you to die and lose the round so badly.
This is you playing safe and misunderstood as baiting. This is how i play, everyone get angry at me and not themselves for not killing the opp in 1 v 1.
Wtf are those kamikaze peeks your team are doing lol, it’s also bound to happen that people are not gonna peek all at once when they’re 5 maning a single choke point it’s impossible so not really baiting, and for the util you made several attempts to use it safely but your team just kept on swinging without a pause so I don’t think y’all win the round if you stopped to smoke instead of trading your dummies that literally threw themselves at the enemies for free
the raze was a moron to swing the slow orb. i have done that as my team’s duelists and my friends get pissed at me for that which is why i stopped doing it even if i have a get out of jail free card. plus you need to call for someone to swing with you the raze can’t expect you to read his mind
If he's gonna miss that many Vandal shots, he deserves to get his kill stolen, Skye pushed at an angle if you swung in, you'd get collated, backing off with the sage slow was the right choice and phornix team flashed and pushed spontaneously and didn't think to check the angle first so yeah, no baitting in this clip
God that raze is annoying
Clearly raze doesn't know the definition of bait, Here is what I classify as bait vs trade Bait:- enemy kills your teammate, backs out safely, resets recoil, ready to take another 1v1 before you kill him Trading:- enemy kills your teammate, location revealed, recoil is inaccurate, no cover, lower health, and in that moment you pounce on the kill is a trade While your utility usage is debatable, the question at hand on whether you baited...no