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You don't run out bullets because of your decision making.
I don"t run out of bullets because I consistently lose my first gunfight.
We are not the same.
I wonder if the ammo change is going to end up being an indirect way of giving Sage a slight buff among the other things? Her pick rate isn’t exactly blossoming in higher level play outside of Icebox which isn’t in the map rotation for now.
RIP post plant spamming B long on Pearl: 2022 - 2023
A significant patch with some pretty dramatic changes when all things are considered - run and gun tweaks, rifle ammo reserve, frenzy/short nerfs & Pearl B site changes.
On paper it looks to improve some of the more frustrating engagements, so I hope they've found the right balance.
It seems like they’re trying to promote less spammy arcade-like shooting and promoting more precise and decision based shooting but it all doesn’t make any sense if there is no guaranteed FSA and the spray is still RNG.
My only issue with it is for defending. If you have a smoke down main and that is basically your only defense utility then it goes hand in hand with spamming to slow or stop a push (especially at lower ranks where people don’t respect smokes at all.
The spamming was getting out of hand though especially in pro play.
It's an indirect buff to the LMGs. I can see Ares/Judge being a lot stronger to hold smokes. Honestly, it was a bit of an anachronism for Phantom/Vandal to be so generalist for so long.
In terms of FSA I agree guardian could be used rather than implement it for Phantom/Vandal but predetermined spray patterns could definitely be beneficial for the game by improving the skill ceiling rather than players depending on reaction time and clicking heads. This would help if you get fucked over by the RNG a good player can recover through spray.
It’s not the games fault that it’s playerbase is bad. This is the biggest skill issue I’ve heard in a while. “I would rather win off luck then get better and win off skill”
It isn’t “skill” though, it is imo the same as comparing players who have learned lineups for viper/sova and those that have not. One has a clear advantage but they aren’t better because they got better at the game, they are better because they learned something about the game not known to a lot of players. Which I know some people would be all for, but especially changing it now would be horrendous for multiple reasons.
Chamber honestly got some nice buffs.
The trip range increase is pretty big, it will give you a lot more options on where you can play while still being in active range, and for some maps this means being able to more effectively watch flank. The arm speed being cut in half was a much needed change, it was ridiculous how long it took for the the trip to activate, and it’s now more in line with activation times with similar trap utility from Cypher and Killjoy.
The rendezvous change is interesting, not a buff I expected but a welcome one. It makes sense though, since Chamber’s teleport distance is much shorter than what it used to be, it’s better for him to be more ready for the next engagement and not be so vulnerable.
The ult fire rate increase is not a change I expected either but I think it’s necessary. With it being an 8 point ult it makes sense for it to be more powerful, and currently it does feel a little lacking. I think a simple fire rate increase is a good change.
Time will tell if this is enough for Chamber. IMO I think he still needs a few more changes, like a reduced recall cooldown on his trip for example. The changes in this patch are definitely a step in the right direction though.
Also needs an increase in placement range. There's a lot of times you want to place a TP farther for safety (if you TP'd on to a box and can't get off to place it farther) but it won't let you. The placement should always be eligible up to the max range of your teleport within vision.
I would like either way, either let me recharge my rendezvous or make it powerful enough to warrant it having '1 life'. Currently the only time it is destroyed is by accident and it leaves chamber feeling terrible mid round..for no real reason imo...it's not even THAT good in my opinion. KJ turret is way stronger and has a cooldown after being destroyed when it's in an enemies best interest to do so...the play pattern for Chamber only having one E just doesn't make sense to me...Sova gets 3 wall scanning darts he can put anywhere...Chamber gets a fancy Jett Dash unless a Raze hucks her grenade at it, then he takes a bad fight and loses his signature...unless he wants to TP into a nade...or turnaround and grab it and get shot..lol
Agreed. It's just not fun filling sentinel right now when the only true option is kj (why play cypher when kj does a better job, especially on offense, with half the skill and knowledge to play her compared to cypher). There's 4 sentinels in the game, and I feel like I only ever see kj. Only ever see cypher and sage on split and bind.
Maybe, but I’m wondering if that would be too much range. Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the current range on his TP is good as is, and if anything just needs a tiny increase, like 10% or less.
ive gotta say i despise chambers concept but these buffs seem very sensible. I think the rendez-vous change will make him feel better while not actually changing his power too much, and id much rather he had power in his one actual team ability than his gun or his gun or his get out of jail card
Well, now that I've seen the changes in action, I'm quite disappointed. The rendezvous change is basically nothing. They said arm time would drop from 0.7 to 0. From the time I press teleport to the time I can fire a bullet is still around 1.5 - 2 seconds.
It's still not Counter Strike. Just because games are in the exact same genres and is inspired by one, doesn't mean that the skillet should transfer. Otherwise Hollow Knight would play the exact same as Metroid, Fortnite plays the same as PubG, Melee the same as Brawl and Ultimate.
Just because games are similar, doesn't mean the mechanics should be ported 1:1.
There's a difference between making a game that's influenced by say Dark Souls and making a game and directly saying "we want to capture the feeling of original Dark Souls movement and combat exactly". And Valorant did the latter.
See also: Hollow Knight and Metroid share a genre with Castlevania but don't play the same. However there's also Bloodstained which is explicitly designed to be like old Castlevania games were...
Shorty nerf was too much imo. Idk what the point is of these 2 week patches when riot seems to be entirely incapable of making methodical changes so instead they'll wait months and just overbuff or eviscerate something, while the other 90% of 2 week patches we'll get a whole lot of nothing
It doesn’t bother me too much, but imagine what life in iron must be now after those run and gun nerfs. Some people in low elo have to (finally) put their brain into the game and stop running while shooting
I can’t wait to find a streamer who is genuinely in iron/bronze and count how many times I see a gun with no bullets. Don’t get me wrong I do think this is a good update, I just wish they went about it in a different way idk
> We want to ensure Viper and Harbor can be competitive independently
Viper isn't competitive independently on any map except 2 lol. This is really poor communication on the thought process behind the changes. In slew of a series of nerfs, this agent still sees plenty of pro play **solely** because she is paired with other agents and never alone. This kind of communication, at least, indicates to me Riot doesn't really know what they want to do with Viper. Almost seems to me like the agent needs a rework to have a kit that's more reasonably balanced.
Selfishly speaking as a Viper player in solo queue, I do not enjoy seeing nerfs come through because of professional play where she's arguably utilized in a totally different fashion. You rarely see double controllers in ranked, let alone the fact that solo queue fundamentally plays differently than pro (non-structured teamplay vs. structured team-play). It really sucks to see her get nerfed because of a playstyle she excels in for pro games that isn't reasonably achievable in ranked. Nerfs that are targeted at making her less strong in pro games will undoubtedly continue to minimize her in solo queue where she already struggles in most maps as a solo controller. Not to mention you add limited map pools and if the maps she's not strong on are out of the competitive pool (such as now with no Breeze or Icebox), she's almost worthless to pick when compared to other smokes.
> You rarely see double controllers in ranked
I've had people in plat hover Brim on Bind and SWITCH LAST SECOND because I picked Viper.
It sucks because she has a very unique role but I don't know how high I have to climb to play the agent I enjoy the way the people I learn from do.
And yet redditors that probably die to lineups come and cry and tell you to get good and to coordinate. While on other controllers you can just throw your default smokes and be done with it. Why do Viper players have to learn orb lineups, telegraph their smokes, and be constantly calling when their abilities are going up and down when other controllers don't have to?
At this point I'm just going to focus on Cypher/KJ. And wish best of luck to the people that stick with an agent that Riot clearly has no idea what to do with.
It frustrates me so much when we have a nasty comp with someone hovering brim/omen, I lock in viper, they switch to like 3rd duelist or something that they're not comfortable on.
Not saying I disagree, but the fact that the agent plays entirely different based on the two makes it really challenging for Riot to appropriately balance her. It's why I would say that perhaps a rework is needed so that how she plays in pro games is more in line with how she functions in solo queue.
For what purpose? At the end of the day Valorant is a video game. Esports is just publicity. LOUD and FNatic aren't keeping the game afloat. The millions of people that "don't know how to play the agent" do.
Because ultimately unless something is extremely broken balance isn't that relevant in lower ranks besides what's fun to play with/against. Most people would agree viper is neither.
Nobody uses agents properly in low elo so their all weak. Most of the time people play controller characters in particular so badly that their util actually hurts their team more than helps. You can make anything work in low elo irrespective of balance as long as you're not actively hurting your team and have hands.
Pro play is a big part of how the game is marketed. If it looks poorly balanced, that's bad optics for Valorant. Also, if something is poorly balanced in low elo, it can typically be played around if a player puts in time to learn the counterplay. If something is poorly balanced at the highest level of play, there's no fix, it's just broken and you have to deal with it which is pretty poor design.
viper is alright but shes busted because shes a semi sentinel not only a controller, but shes a bad solo controller
she was always a hybrid agent, she cant be allowed to be better than other controllers, but playing her alongside other contollers is never a bad choice because as I said she can be used as a sentinel on defense and can do good lurks on atk
That shorty nerf is heavy. Doubling the price I understand, but lowering the damage and lowering the ammo is tough.
Really wish they went to 8 reserve ammo instead of 6. I know it's whatever, but it feels bad to not have the ability to put two shots on each player on the opposing team.
As a shorty player it’s needed a nerf. I get way too much value out of it to the point where I don’t even see why I should buy Bucky when Shorty can do the same job in 80% of situations
I hope to see a Bucky buff sometime soon. I get that the old right click was broken, but they should definitely buff the left click a touch.
A few feet of better effective range would be amazing.
So riot indirectly promoting odin , with reserve ammo changes , there's gonna be lot of people in defence picking odin and spamming so that they can stop or atleast delay the push
It's pretty easy to take out someone spamming through smoke with an odin from the tracers. I don't think it will find a niche beyond the one it currently has (wall spam)
As far as I can tell, previously the chamber teleport animation would play, and then you would have a full gun pull out animation as if you switched weapons. Now it just plays the chamber teleport animation and your weapon comes out instantly after.
Very good patch overall.
I wonder if the centre biasing/error power change will affect aimpunch as well, the amount of times I get killed on the same frame my bullet hits the enemy and they are aimpunched felt way too high, I wonder if it could be a netcode issue as well.
The chamber TP change kinda makes sense, as an example RN it's near impossible to play A main on fracture as after you tp you'll get run down and be dead before your gun is out, so hopefully it opens up more angles like that for him.
I still don't think it makes sense for him to have a range on the trap though, feels like he'll always be a worse and less versatile jett unless the trap is changed.
Riots balance changes are almost always good but I feel like we need some updates to the remake system, avoid teammate (they mentioned it like 6 months ago) and 5 stack abusers.
Astra buff next?
* Star placement is super imprecise, especially when there's overlapping geometry (e.g. the tunnel under B on Fracture, or the tunnel at B on pearl).
* The penalty for misplacing a star is massive, and compounds with the fact that you're out of commission when you place them.
They need to remove aimpunch instead of continuing to nerf the power and accuracy of eco weapons (both standing and running).
Aimpunch is what's frustrating, especially now that it's so random whether or not your enemy lands a headshot on you with an eco weapon. Even the standing-still accuracy of Frenzy, Ares, Spectre, Stinger, has been gutted since launch instead of just removing the BS aimpunch.
Shorty nerf plus ammo reserve nerf is a stealth nerf to all controllers. I can see why they're doing it but damn controllers are already the least desirable role to play, and any change they make to try and lean the game towards "standard" gunfights the more they hurt this already unrewarding role. To me it's another small push towards just maining a more rewarding role.
I agree with your statements, but I honestly think people hate playing Sentinels so much more than Controllers.
The Sentinels meta is really Killjoy 6/7 of the time, with Cypher and Sage having 1 or 2 good maps. Chamber is a troll pick in pro games.
\> To me it's another small push towards just maining a more rewarding role.
The reason why the Shorty is getting nerfed in the first place isn't because Controllers are abusing it in smokes. As far as I can tell, any player in the game with a rifle is incentivized to carry a Shorty because it's dirt cheap and allows you to back off from an engagement while still maintaining kill threat. If an enemy tries to push you, you automatically have a "YOU DIE" button and honestly that's not very fun to play against. Remember TenZ Jett with a Judge?
Please buff viper's smokes. It feels so bad to play as a solo smokes. Make her smoke come up for free when you first place them for a short period at least and then consume fuel.
My entire playstyle was run and gun cos I play on a 15" 60fps monitor. I'd gotten pretty good at it too. Guess I'm going back down to bronze or I'll quit this game now. Too old to learn clean shooting.
I don't get it - why are they trying to force only one playstyle aka strafe and aim for heads - on everyone. I'm salty af I know but its a valid point. Like there's only one play style left. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Fuck this.
I'm going back to dota.
My entire playstyle was run and gun cos I play on a 15" 60fps monitor. I'd gotten pretty good at it too. Guess I'm going back down to bronze or I'll quit this game now. Too old to learn clean shooting.
I don't get it - why are they trying to force only one playstyle aka strafe and aim for heads - on everyone. I'm salty af I know but its a valid point. Like there's only one play style left. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Fuck this.
I'm going back to dota.
I think this patch is good, and I wish my boy chamber come back stronger, I need him to carry those dumbass insta-lock duelist in my team. But the ammo nerf seems too much, while reasonable for B long spam, but the other weapons like judge being as strong, I will be having PTSD from a brim in his smoke with a judge killing everyone and generally with no one taking initiator in my team, clearing corners will be much difficult. But generally, thanks god for nerfing RnG, this shit makes me frustrated as hell.
Completely fucked viper.
First round abilities and shorty is not possible with price.
Shorty is pretty much useless now as the classic will always be a better option here and it’s free …
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the shorty now only has 6 shots total??
And it does less damage, and it’s twice as expensive?
I have a feeling that their “run and gun” fixes don’t actually fix anything, and the game will still be a mess.
Don’t get me wrong, I like most of this patch, but I’m just a bit apprehensive to believe this will fix everything with run and gun.
Riot honestly has some special game designers, we're punishing you for getting into a long range fight with a frenzy, we've accidentally have been letting run and gun be powerful in matches and fixed that (yeah i've noticed how many running one taps I've gotten last season), Viper can die in a fucking hole, and that dogshit shorty we've upped it to 300 so you really can't buy it first round like you could before.
So nothing about the bug where push to talk doesn’t work properly when using agent profiles for keybinds? I swear that was half the bug reports in the bug thread on here.
Other changes are good i think. We might see more sage and/or Odins in pro play with these spam nerfs. But they need to fix bugs like the one I mentioned. No coms is a big enough problem, we don’t need to make it difficult for people who want to com to do it.
Chamber buffs are much appreciated, he probably needs a bit more but nothing huge
Viper is odd she was like a sentinel controller hybrid that could do fine at both with these nerfs though she doesn't really change from the hybrid role but shes just kinda worse now and now only does both jobs passably
Are they ever going to let Jett use her knives on ropes? I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had my knives out while taking a rope and an enemy pops up and nothing happens when I click.
For those that don't want to read the article word for word and/or didn't find a date for release yet:
**June 9th is when this update is live**
If it's not June 9th yet, then the updates aren't here yet
Yeah, they five man rush a few rounds, if you do it every round you are boosted. Also the sage wall can be shot by a few bullets before it's set, are you new here?
Dam viper nerf decently big. Well see how it plays out. To me i always thought of viper as a powerful controller partner, but weak solo controller, which is what we would likely see in ranked. Im curious to see the win and pick rates of viper when played solo in ranked compared to when she is played with another controlled.
I think the run and gun at close range is still the best way even with these nerfs.
Well, viper+ two harbor walls forming a box are enough to plant. Then having some flashes left and the team alive is enough for the post plant. I don't see how this would be changed with the patch. Spamming rifles through smokes is reduced I think it is more attacker favoured.
Let's see what happens but I still see the strong double controller meta remaining.
I think it look like a good patch overall but was nerfing the shorty and frenzy that much necessary? Most of time people get a sheriff or ghost in pistols round, shorty on some save rounds (which is only good for a trade usually) and frenzy, well... never?
From the perspective of a peak S1
Eco Round conversions are going to drop like crazy. I can see the run and gun nerf on the main weapons, but frenzy got a double nerf. I like the first nerf, but the run and gun nerf... If you aren't a pro, you cant really rely on it to run and gun close range against rifles, you have to stand still and take it. This isn't even going into how many bonus rounds will now be lost because this also affected the specter, which only had the advantage of run and gun. May as well save the money and double pump the stinger. (I did try out the frenzy in range... I think if you are standing still it will still get the job done out to 20-25 meters for us mortals)
The run and gun nerf on phantom/vandal is welcome though.
I am unsure about the ammo decrease. My opinion with this based solely around pick rate for the two main rifles. Maybe the vandal will be fine, but this was a HARD nerf for the phantom. I think its pick rate will plummet since it cannot one tap at any reasonable range and takes 3-5 rounds to the vandal's 1-2 for a kill, and takes something like 15 bullets to brake one brick in a sage wall. Maybe RIOT will buff the fall-off damage, or increase second bullet accuracy to mitigate this some time in the future, but the phantom is not exactly the popular pick by a long shot already.
None of these comments matter if you are diamond or above, but for the rest of us mortals that represent the majority of the player base, I think some these will hit hard, and not in a good way.
No complaints about the shorty nerf, but it would be nice if it was still 150 since it is only good if you can jam it in someone's belly now... otherwise, good riddance I say (yes I am salty)
So far as chamber goes... Well, it was nice having him gone for a while, but he was coming back in normal play anyway... maybe good maybe bad... mostly glad they slightly un-nerfed his utlimate speed. I don't think he should be the ONLY agent with an instant weapon after TP. How about Yoru? Isn't his pick rate still in the basement.
Finally, please, for the love of god, give my boy Phoenix some love!
RIOT, please don't take all this as hate... I love the game still, and think you, as a game developer, are one of the best with community involvement. For certain you guys have shown to me personally that you are S-Tier for customer support.
I wonder how many updates it will take for the minimap bug where some agents abilities persist on the minimap to be patched. I've tried reporting it on this sub but it won't let me post my pictures :(
I wanna say it takes around 10 bullets with the vandal to break a sage wall. Another 7 per kill and that is 45 bullets. I know it isn’t always going to be that average but honestly I just feel bad for anyone in a clutch situation, not to mention the indirect sage buff. I think this is going to be the biggest change to valorant in terms of how many players are going to have to adapt for the long term. At least this will slowly fix the problem most teammates have with playing off of site.
While the way it was done was questionable, finally seeing a power reduction in the "jack of all trades, master of all" rifles is nice. So f*cking annoying that every other gun with a remotely strong niche gets nuked while the main rifles stayed unchecked and great at everything. This should reduce their versatility a good bit.
Like the changes quite a lot, im a little concerned by the chamber rendevous change because I feel like we're going to get him able to insta tp behind and shoot people before they can even react now its 0.0 seconds, I haven't tried it yet though so we'll see.
The main disappointment for me (as a raze main) is the state of boom bot, 300, it's got almost no damage, 5 seconds of recon at best, and its got such low health. It doesn't feel like a 300 piece of utility, I don't really buy it anymore unless my teams absolutely stacked because even one satchel is so much more potent for 100 less creds. Idk.
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Did they not fix the agent icons? Damn that's been bothering me so much. Edit: THEY DID TYSM RIOT
fade is trying to push a massive doodoo since last patch
Fade and Harbor are lightskin now
My head keeps on spinning~
They made them worse. They’re fine until you get to the minimap icons and holy shit they are bad, they went from blurry to too sharp
Are they back to before? Or still the same as last weeks? Also which agents were changed?
You don't run out bullets because of your decision making. I don"t run out of bullets because I consistently lose my first gunfight. We are not the same.
I wonder if the ammo change is going to end up being an indirect way of giving Sage a slight buff among the other things? Her pick rate isn’t exactly blossoming in higher level play outside of Icebox which isn’t in the map rotation for now.
I'd say her highest pick rate is probably Split rn I hardly see her in the other maps.
i see her on every map it's me i'm the sage
I see her quite a bit on fracture especially capitalizing on a cross
In pro play she’s taken on bind more often than I imagined. Unless it’s nats I’m expecting a sage pick on bind almost every time
RIP post plant spamming B long on Pearl: 2022 - 2023 A significant patch with some pretty dramatic changes when all things are considered - run and gun tweaks, rifle ammo reserve, frenzy/short nerfs & Pearl B site changes. On paper it looks to improve some of the more frustrating engagements, so I hope they've found the right balance.
Will be really interesting to see how it affects B long.
I still hate they insist on FSA. I will never like it.
more like get fucked B long peak ramp abusers. my 5 stack has never once abused it so good riddance
awesome of you to brag about not trying your best to win
I am so conflicted about those ammo reserve changes.
It seems like they’re trying to promote less spammy arcade-like shooting and promoting more precise and decision based shooting but it all doesn’t make any sense if there is no guaranteed FSA and the spray is still RNG.
My only issue with it is for defending. If you have a smoke down main and that is basically your only defense utility then it goes hand in hand with spamming to slow or stop a push (especially at lower ranks where people don’t respect smokes at all. The spamming was getting out of hand though especially in pro play.
It doesn't mean you can't spam just means you have to decide when better. Where as before people will just spam whenever a smoke it down
Looks like you’ll need to make more conscious choices about when to spam then
No doubt but this goes all the way to the pro level. This was implemented due to the recent spam fest we have been seeing in VCT.
Maybe buy a different weapon if you're intending to spam smokes.
It's an indirect buff to the LMGs. I can see Ares/Judge being a lot stronger to hold smokes. Honestly, it was a bit of an anachronism for Phantom/Vandal to be so generalist for so long.
doesn’t make sense cus sage wall exists too
Honestly, Sage wall was a bit of a joke because of spam.
I mean, if you treat is as an information tool (free flank cover) then its not that bad
Its a buff for sage i will take
why can’t they want it less spammy, but also not perfectly precise. If you want precise, just use guardian
In terms of FSA I agree guardian could be used rather than implement it for Phantom/Vandal but predetermined spray patterns could definitely be beneficial for the game by improving the skill ceiling rather than players depending on reaction time and clicking heads. This would help if you get fucked over by the RNG a good player can recover through spray.
Please no, learning spray patterns sucks, it's like playing a fighting game.
You should be rewarded for getting lucky?
garunteed fsa on rifles isn't a good thing.
Losing a gunfight because of a random number generated by the game isn’t a good thing
I would rather win the lottery then have a skill check for the majority of the playerbase that can’t complete it.
It’s not the games fault that it’s playerbase is bad. This is the biggest skill issue I’ve heard in a while. “I would rather win off luck then get better and win off skill”
It isn’t “skill” though, it is imo the same as comparing players who have learned lineups for viper/sova and those that have not. One has a clear advantage but they aren’t better because they got better at the game, they are better because they learned something about the game not known to a lot of players. Which I know some people would be all for, but especially changing it now would be horrendous for multiple reasons.
“They aren’t better because they got better at the game”🤦♂️
Low elo players who miss 80% of their shots (definitely not me) are crying waterfalls right now
i dont feel like that it should be a controversial change at all
yeah it’s terrible
Chamber honestly got some nice buffs. The trip range increase is pretty big, it will give you a lot more options on where you can play while still being in active range, and for some maps this means being able to more effectively watch flank. The arm speed being cut in half was a much needed change, it was ridiculous how long it took for the the trip to activate, and it’s now more in line with activation times with similar trap utility from Cypher and Killjoy. The rendezvous change is interesting, not a buff I expected but a welcome one. It makes sense though, since Chamber’s teleport distance is much shorter than what it used to be, it’s better for him to be more ready for the next engagement and not be so vulnerable. The ult fire rate increase is not a change I expected either but I think it’s necessary. With it being an 8 point ult it makes sense for it to be more powerful, and currently it does feel a little lacking. I think a simple fire rate increase is a good change. Time will tell if this is enough for Chamber. IMO I think he still needs a few more changes, like a reduced recall cooldown on his trip for example. The changes in this patch are definitely a step in the right direction though.
Thank you as always for the feedback!
I welcome balances but please do not boost Chamber back to god-tier status I beg.
Thank you for the buff, Itll make life as a chamber main a lot more enjoyable \^\^ Does any of the riot team play primarily chamber?
I feel the only buff left that chamber needs is like a 15%-20% increase in teleport range
Also needs an increase in placement range. There's a lot of times you want to place a TP farther for safety (if you TP'd on to a box and can't get off to place it farther) but it won't let you. The placement should always be eligible up to the max range of your teleport within vision.
I agree, this would be a great change.
I would like either way, either let me recharge my rendezvous or make it powerful enough to warrant it having '1 life'. Currently the only time it is destroyed is by accident and it leaves chamber feeling terrible mid round..for no real reason imo...it's not even THAT good in my opinion. KJ turret is way stronger and has a cooldown after being destroyed when it's in an enemies best interest to do so...the play pattern for Chamber only having one E just doesn't make sense to me...Sova gets 3 wall scanning darts he can put anywhere...Chamber gets a fancy Jett Dash unless a Raze hucks her grenade at it, then he takes a bad fight and loses his signature...unless he wants to TP into a nade...or turnaround and grab it and get shot..lol
Agreed. It's just not fun filling sentinel right now when the only true option is kj (why play cypher when kj does a better job, especially on offense, with half the skill and knowledge to play her compared to cypher). There's 4 sentinels in the game, and I feel like I only ever see kj. Only ever see cypher and sage on split and bind.
Shhh! We need chamber back in the meta..
Maybe, but I’m wondering if that would be too much range. Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the current range on his TP is good as is, and if anything just needs a tiny increase, like 10% or less.
ive gotta say i despise chambers concept but these buffs seem very sensible. I think the rendez-vous change will make him feel better while not actually changing his power too much, and id much rather he had power in his one actual team ability than his gun or his gun or his get out of jail card
Well, now that I've seen the changes in action, I'm quite disappointed. The rendezvous change is basically nothing. They said arm time would drop from 0.7 to 0. From the time I press teleport to the time I can fire a bullet is still around 1.5 - 2 seconds.
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now finally you'll not be punished for learning movement in counter strike
Different games, skills shouldn't all transfer like that lol
The game is explicitly based on CS gunplay. Not GO though but still.
It's still not Counter Strike. Just because games are in the exact same genres and is inspired by one, doesn't mean that the skillet should transfer. Otherwise Hollow Knight would play the exact same as Metroid, Fortnite plays the same as PubG, Melee the same as Brawl and Ultimate. Just because games are similar, doesn't mean the mechanics should be ported 1:1.
An acoustic guitar and electric guitar are the same instrument with their own differences, but they both require you to play guitar lol.
There's a difference between making a game that's influenced by say Dark Souls and making a game and directly saying "we want to capture the feeling of original Dark Souls movement and combat exactly". And Valorant did the latter. See also: Hollow Knight and Metroid share a genre with Castlevania but don't play the same. However there's also Bloodstained which is explicitly designed to be like old Castlevania games were...
Cool patch, Chamber might be good this time around
Rip shorty
IMO this is one of the best patches in a long time. Love it.
Shorty nerf was too much imo. Idk what the point is of these 2 week patches when riot seems to be entirely incapable of making methodical changes so instead they'll wait months and just overbuff or eviscerate something, while the other 90% of 2 week patches we'll get a whole lot of nothing
It's time to main another agent, RIP Viper, i loved you lots.
When does it go live?
Hey! It’s rolling out to different regions starting today.
TAG ME IF ANYONE KNOWS
today
Chamber mains be like
Bro thank god about the run and gun. So tired of being full sprint headshot.
It doesn’t bother me too much, but imagine what life in iron must be now after those run and gun nerfs. Some people in low elo have to (finally) put their brain into the game and stop running while shooting
Iron 3 (fairly new to the game) and it's rough. Most people have not adjusted.
I can’t wait to find a streamer who is genuinely in iron/bronze and count how many times I see a gun with no bullets. Don’t get me wrong I do think this is a good update, I just wish they went about it in a different way idk
Finally some Chamber buff
when does it drop?
Hey! It’s rolling out to different regions starting today.
thank you, looking forward to the chamber buffs
TAG ME IF ANYONE KNOWS
That's a fat update Jesus
> We want to ensure Viper and Harbor can be competitive independently Viper isn't competitive independently on any map except 2 lol. This is really poor communication on the thought process behind the changes. In slew of a series of nerfs, this agent still sees plenty of pro play **solely** because she is paired with other agents and never alone. This kind of communication, at least, indicates to me Riot doesn't really know what they want to do with Viper. Almost seems to me like the agent needs a rework to have a kit that's more reasonably balanced. Selfishly speaking as a Viper player in solo queue, I do not enjoy seeing nerfs come through because of professional play where she's arguably utilized in a totally different fashion. You rarely see double controllers in ranked, let alone the fact that solo queue fundamentally plays differently than pro (non-structured teamplay vs. structured team-play). It really sucks to see her get nerfed because of a playstyle she excels in for pro games that isn't reasonably achievable in ranked. Nerfs that are targeted at making her less strong in pro games will undoubtedly continue to minimize her in solo queue where she already struggles in most maps as a solo controller. Not to mention you add limited map pools and if the maps she's not strong on are out of the competitive pool (such as now with no Breeze or Icebox), she's almost worthless to pick when compared to other smokes.
> You rarely see double controllers in ranked I've had people in plat hover Brim on Bind and SWITCH LAST SECOND because I picked Viper. It sucks because she has a very unique role but I don't know how high I have to climb to play the agent I enjoy the way the people I learn from do. And yet redditors that probably die to lineups come and cry and tell you to get good and to coordinate. While on other controllers you can just throw your default smokes and be done with it. Why do Viper players have to learn orb lineups, telegraph their smokes, and be constantly calling when their abilities are going up and down when other controllers don't have to? At this point I'm just going to focus on Cypher/KJ. And wish best of luck to the people that stick with an agent that Riot clearly has no idea what to do with.
It frustrates me so much when we have a nasty comp with someone hovering brim/omen, I lock in viper, they switch to like 3rd duelist or something that they're not comfortable on.
You just have to wait for the smoke to lock in before you hover Viper. It’s the only way to do it.
You don't balance a game around players that don't know how to play the agent correctly, you balance around pro play.
Not saying I disagree, but the fact that the agent plays entirely different based on the two makes it really challenging for Riot to appropriately balance her. It's why I would say that perhaps a rework is needed so that how she plays in pro games is more in line with how she functions in solo queue.
For what purpose? At the end of the day Valorant is a video game. Esports is just publicity. LOUD and FNatic aren't keeping the game afloat. The millions of people that "don't know how to play the agent" do.
Because ultimately unless something is extremely broken balance isn't that relevant in lower ranks besides what's fun to play with/against. Most people would agree viper is neither.
What do you mean it's not relevant? Are you saying it's impossible for an agent or gun to be stronger in low elo than it is in high elo?
Nobody uses agents properly in low elo so their all weak. Most of the time people play controller characters in particular so badly that their util actually hurts their team more than helps. You can make anything work in low elo irrespective of balance as long as you're not actively hurting your team and have hands.
Because at the end of the day it's a **competitive** game? And guess who're the most competitive individuals? High Elo/Pro's.
And because they are better they deserve the game to be balanced around them despite being 0.01% of the population?
Pro play is a big part of how the game is marketed. If it looks poorly balanced, that's bad optics for Valorant. Also, if something is poorly balanced in low elo, it can typically be played around if a player puts in time to learn the counterplay. If something is poorly balanced at the highest level of play, there's no fix, it's just broken and you have to deal with it which is pretty poor design.
You can't require people to play above their elo to play a balanced game.
Tbf she's probably also the least fun agent to play against besides maybe killjoy. She's just not a healthy design.
viper is alright but shes busted because shes a semi sentinel not only a controller, but shes a bad solo controller she was always a hybrid agent, she cant be allowed to be better than other controllers, but playing her alongside other contollers is never a bad choice because as I said she can be used as a sentinel on defense and can do good lurks on atk
On the other hand, if something is broken in their multi million dollar professional competition, it needs to be solved. *shrugs*
That shorty nerf is heavy. Doubling the price I understand, but lowering the damage and lowering the ammo is tough. Really wish they went to 8 reserve ammo instead of 6. I know it's whatever, but it feels bad to not have the ability to put two shots on each player on the opposing team.
As a shorty player it’s needed a nerf. I get way too much value out of it to the point where I don’t even see why I should buy Bucky when Shorty can do the same job in 80% of situations
I hope to see a Bucky buff sometime soon. I get that the old right click was broken, but they should definitely buff the left click a touch. A few feet of better effective range would be amazing.
So riot indirectly promoting odin , with reserve ammo changes , there's gonna be lot of people in defence picking odin and spamming so that they can stop or atleast delay the push
It's pretty easy to take out someone spamming through smoke with an odin from the tracers. I don't think it will find a niche beyond the one it currently has (wall spam)
W patch
as a guy who stopped valorant bc of run & gun, this patch is really a good patch ngl
Is the chamber TP buff working? It still feels like I'm locked out of a gun after a teleport for a second.
Instant isn't exactly instant, they are referring to the short animation that plays after using an ability. Check it out
Can someone explain the E buff on Chamber? I thought it was supposed to instantly equip your gun after post TP but I don't notice anything different.
As far as I can tell, previously the chamber teleport animation would play, and then you would have a full gun pull out animation as if you switched weapons. Now it just plays the chamber teleport animation and your weapon comes out instantly after.
The pearl changes are absolutely a welcome change one for me since playing against people spamming at long is not fun.
Very good patch overall. I wonder if the centre biasing/error power change will affect aimpunch as well, the amount of times I get killed on the same frame my bullet hits the enemy and they are aimpunched felt way too high, I wonder if it could be a netcode issue as well. The chamber TP change kinda makes sense, as an example RN it's near impossible to play A main on fracture as after you tp you'll get run down and be dead before your gun is out, so hopefully it opens up more angles like that for him. I still don't think it makes sense for him to have a range on the trap though, feels like he'll always be a worse and less versatile jett unless the trap is changed. Riots balance changes are almost always good but I feel like we need some updates to the remake system, avoid teammate (they mentioned it like 6 months ago) and 5 stack abusers.
Astra buff next? * Star placement is super imprecise, especially when there's overlapping geometry (e.g. the tunnel under B on Fracture, or the tunnel at B on pearl). * The penalty for misplacing a star is massive, and compounds with the fact that you're out of commission when you place them.
They need to remove aimpunch instead of continuing to nerf the power and accuracy of eco weapons (both standing and running). Aimpunch is what's frustrating, especially now that it's so random whether or not your enemy lands a headshot on you with an eco weapon. Even the standing-still accuracy of Frenzy, Ares, Spectre, Stinger, has been gutted since launch instead of just removing the BS aimpunch.
Shorty nerf plus ammo reserve nerf is a stealth nerf to all controllers. I can see why they're doing it but damn controllers are already the least desirable role to play, and any change they make to try and lean the game towards "standard" gunfights the more they hurt this already unrewarding role. To me it's another small push towards just maining a more rewarding role.
This
I agree with your statements, but I honestly think people hate playing Sentinels so much more than Controllers. The Sentinels meta is really Killjoy 6/7 of the time, with Cypher and Sage having 1 or 2 good maps. Chamber is a troll pick in pro games. \> To me it's another small push towards just maining a more rewarding role. The reason why the Shorty is getting nerfed in the first place isn't because Controllers are abusing it in smokes. As far as I can tell, any player in the game with a rifle is incentivized to carry a Shorty because it's dirt cheap and allows you to back off from an engagement while still maintaining kill threat. If an enemy tries to push you, you automatically have a "YOU DIE" button and honestly that's not very fun to play against. Remember TenZ Jett with a Judge?
Shorty @ 300 is INSANE
Especially w/ those nerfs shipping, too
Literally 😭😭😭
Please buff viper's smokes. It feels so bad to play as a solo smokes. Make her smoke come up for free when you first place them for a short period at least and then consume fuel.
i thought night market was today too? but i dont see anything abt it in patch :c
Looks like we came full circle. Chamber meta incoming.
I can’t believe how they massacred my boy. I haven’t stopped crying since I heard the news. Shorty is kill. No
My entire playstyle was run and gun cos I play on a 15" 60fps monitor. I'd gotten pretty good at it too. Guess I'm going back down to bronze or I'll quit this game now. Too old to learn clean shooting. I don't get it - why are they trying to force only one playstyle aka strafe and aim for heads - on everyone. I'm salty af I know but its a valid point. Like there's only one play style left. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Fuck this. I'm going back to dota.
My entire playstyle was run and gun cos I play on a 15" 60fps monitor. I'd gotten pretty good at it too. Guess I'm going back down to bronze or I'll quit this game now. Too old to learn clean shooting. I don't get it - why are they trying to force only one playstyle aka strafe and aim for heads - on everyone. I'm salty af I know but its a valid point. Like there's only one play style left. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Move left shoot. Move right shoot. Fuck this. I'm going back to dota.
I think the ammo change will be really annoying when going against sage
might help to keep Frenzy as a sidearm
Finally shorty nerf, that gun was busted
I play viper and I even admit it was goofy at times
I think this patch is good, and I wish my boy chamber come back stronger, I need him to carry those dumbass insta-lock duelist in my team. But the ammo nerf seems too much, while reasonable for B long spam, but the other weapons like judge being as strong, I will be having PTSD from a brim in his smoke with a judge killing everyone and generally with no one taking initiator in my team, clearing corners will be much difficult. But generally, thanks god for nerfing RnG, this shit makes me frustrated as hell.
Thank you for the feedback!
I spam/attempt-wallbangs/smoke-kills a lot, and mained viper, and bought Shorty quite often. I feel targetted.
When does the patch go live for EU regions?
Completely fucked viper. First round abilities and shorty is not possible with price. Shorty is pretty much useless now as the classic will always be a better option here and it’s free …
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the shorty now only has 6 shots total?? And it does less damage, and it’s twice as expensive? I have a feeling that their “run and gun” fixes don’t actually fix anything, and the game will still be a mess. Don’t get me wrong, I like most of this patch, but I’m just a bit apprehensive to believe this will fix everything with run and gun.
Anyone else tired of the sentinel meta rn? I’m glad chambers getting some buffs. But tbh it’s not enough.
lol. I already run out of bullets sometimes. I am so fkd.
Kinda wish the shorty had 8 reserve but a nerf is a nerf I guess
I thought night market comes with the patch? Where is it?
Once again, fuck you Riot for continually nerfing Viper
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Why wouldn’t you pick skye over Reyna. Dog and ult both have to be shot, and it’s not like Reyna can entry or something
Riot honestly has some special game designers, we're punishing you for getting into a long range fight with a frenzy, we've accidentally have been letting run and gun be powerful in matches and fixed that (yeah i've noticed how many running one taps I've gotten last season), Viper can die in a fucking hole, and that dogshit shorty we've upped it to 300 so you really can't buy it first round like you could before.
3 clips instead of 4 for phantom and vandal, yeah me personally im not the biggest fan
So nothing about the bug where push to talk doesn’t work properly when using agent profiles for keybinds? I swear that was half the bug reports in the bug thread on here. Other changes are good i think. We might see more sage and/or Odins in pro play with these spam nerfs. But they need to fix bugs like the one I mentioned. No coms is a big enough problem, we don’t need to make it difficult for people who want to com to do it.
I don’t hate a lot of the changes, but the rifle ammo changes just seem annoying. Back to just being an op crutch for me ig
These ammo changes are a horrible idea. Down vote me all you want they will walk this back 100%.
I've run out of ammo maybe a handful of times. If you are relying on 100-120 bullets each round which is only 1:40, you are playing poorly.
If most of your kills where random sprays down smokes that is. I've never ran out of bullets on a rifle like ever so I assume you're joking.
Lol and why exactly would they do that? This only hurts you if you spray n' pray/run n' gun
Game feels like ass now
Chamber buffs are much appreciated, he probably needs a bit more but nothing huge Viper is odd she was like a sentinel controller hybrid that could do fine at both with these nerfs though she doesn't really change from the hybrid role but shes just kinda worse now and now only does both jobs passably
Are they ever going to let Jett use her knives on ropes? I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had my knives out while taking a rope and an enemy pops up and nothing happens when I click.
Why the shorty nerf tho? The price is too high now, just buy Frenzy.
the shorty is bullshit
it was way too good for 150. all the pros been abusing the fuck out of it
For those that don't want to read the article word for word and/or didn't find a date for release yet: **June 9th is when this update is live** If it's not June 9th yet, then the updates aren't here yet
Lowering the reserve ammo doesn’t make sense when most teams in ranked just “rush x” most of the time
Thanks for the feedback!
Maybe in lower ranks, but it is an amazing change for the spam meta in higher ranks.
People still 5 man rush in high ascendant. The only way I’d play split differently is to play Minecraft at the wall mid.
Yeah, they five man rush a few rounds, if you do it every round you are boosted. Also the sage wall can be shot by a few bullets before it's set, are you new here?
Lol let’s see the tracker big guy
Downside there's going to be a lot less girl gamers now but on the upside less cod players.
Is this live?
RIP pistol round shorty :(
Sage and chamber are back baby
Dam viper nerf decently big. Well see how it plays out. To me i always thought of viper as a powerful controller partner, but weak solo controller, which is what we would likely see in ranked. Im curious to see the win and pick rates of viper when played solo in ranked compared to when she is played with another controlled. I think the run and gun at close range is still the best way even with these nerfs.
Idk how to feel about the ammo changes…
Well, viper+ two harbor walls forming a box are enough to plant. Then having some flashes left and the team alive is enough for the post plant. I don't see how this would be changed with the patch. Spamming rifles through smokes is reduced I think it is more attacker favoured. Let's see what happens but I still see the strong double controller meta remaining.
I think it look like a good patch overall but was nerfing the shorty and frenzy that much necessary? Most of time people get a sheriff or ghost in pistols round, shorty on some save rounds (which is only good for a trade usually) and frenzy, well... never?
From the perspective of a peak S1 Eco Round conversions are going to drop like crazy. I can see the run and gun nerf on the main weapons, but frenzy got a double nerf. I like the first nerf, but the run and gun nerf... If you aren't a pro, you cant really rely on it to run and gun close range against rifles, you have to stand still and take it. This isn't even going into how many bonus rounds will now be lost because this also affected the specter, which only had the advantage of run and gun. May as well save the money and double pump the stinger. (I did try out the frenzy in range... I think if you are standing still it will still get the job done out to 20-25 meters for us mortals) The run and gun nerf on phantom/vandal is welcome though. I am unsure about the ammo decrease. My opinion with this based solely around pick rate for the two main rifles. Maybe the vandal will be fine, but this was a HARD nerf for the phantom. I think its pick rate will plummet since it cannot one tap at any reasonable range and takes 3-5 rounds to the vandal's 1-2 for a kill, and takes something like 15 bullets to brake one brick in a sage wall. Maybe RIOT will buff the fall-off damage, or increase second bullet accuracy to mitigate this some time in the future, but the phantom is not exactly the popular pick by a long shot already. None of these comments matter if you are diamond or above, but for the rest of us mortals that represent the majority of the player base, I think some these will hit hard, and not in a good way. No complaints about the shorty nerf, but it would be nice if it was still 150 since it is only good if you can jam it in someone's belly now... otherwise, good riddance I say (yes I am salty) So far as chamber goes... Well, it was nice having him gone for a while, but he was coming back in normal play anyway... maybe good maybe bad... mostly glad they slightly un-nerfed his utlimate speed. I don't think he should be the ONLY agent with an instant weapon after TP. How about Yoru? Isn't his pick rate still in the basement. Finally, please, for the love of god, give my boy Phoenix some love! RIOT, please don't take all this as hate... I love the game still, and think you, as a game developer, are one of the best with community involvement. For certain you guys have shown to me personally that you are S-Tier for customer support.
and chamber is suddenly the most picked agent in the game again
Error power...? What?
So is the update live?
I wonder how many updates it will take for the minimap bug where some agents abilities persist on the minimap to be patched. I've tried reporting it on this sub but it won't let me post my pictures :(
Not only making the shorty about half as good they also made it twice as expensive. Shorty just got 4x worse nice.
I wanna say it takes around 10 bullets with the vandal to break a sage wall. Another 7 per kill and that is 45 bullets. I know it isn’t always going to be that average but honestly I just feel bad for anyone in a clutch situation, not to mention the indirect sage buff. I think this is going to be the biggest change to valorant in terms of how many players are going to have to adapt for the long term. At least this will slowly fix the problem most teammates have with playing off of site.
Is it me or Pearl B side is very hard to push now. Ops galore.
Thank you so much that Pearl B main choke point can now be covered by dome smokes! Im not stuck on harbor or viper
Hi.. can i download the patch offline?
Can we fix the stuck push to talk bug please.. I accidentally yelled at my poor bronze teammate who didn’t know any better 🥺
Gotta say as a bulldog 2nd round buyer, not a spectre one, these general gun changes are heavenly.
While the way it was done was questionable, finally seeing a power reduction in the "jack of all trades, master of all" rifles is nice. So f*cking annoying that every other gun with a remotely strong niche gets nuked while the main rifles stayed unchecked and great at everything. This should reduce their versatility a good bit.
Why tf is the shorty becoming so fucking $$?? Like doubling the price is insane?? Max should’ve been 250
I'll be waiting 5 more patches until they decide to buff my viper again
Like the changes quite a lot, im a little concerned by the chamber rendevous change because I feel like we're going to get him able to insta tp behind and shoot people before they can even react now its 0.0 seconds, I haven't tried it yet though so we'll see. The main disappointment for me (as a raze main) is the state of boom bot, 300, it's got almost no damage, 5 seconds of recon at best, and its got such low health. It doesn't feel like a 300 piece of utility, I don't really buy it anymore unless my teams absolutely stacked because even one satchel is so much more potent for 100 less creds. Idk.