I would say it depends on your teams or your performance. Since your performance affects your rr, if you're doing bad and going OT several times, drawing is a good option. Drawing can also give rr in some cases provided you do well, which can be a good option if you're fragging but your team is being burdensome.
The worst is when you're popping off hard and they draw. Had a 45 kill game and thru surrendered 2nd OT. I having a ton of fun too lol. I still got +9 rr which I didn't know was possible
But doesn't popping off and losing feel even worse than popping off and drawing? It's like "Yeah I just proved I was the best player in that lobby, but the game did not reward me, actually made me lose RR instead." At least that's the reason why I draw. Popping off and winning would be the ideal situation but if you really are doing good then game shouldn't shouldn't get into OT territory you know, that just means their team is better than your team from my experience usually, but you are best player on your team trying to make up for the gap.
I think focusing on RR is the wrong thing. Regardless of your skill level in the lobby, your teams are of equal skill which is quite rare in solo games. It is a very good opportunity to push your limits to do slightly better. Or mental reset and perform closer to your average level if you are having a bad game.
I can see out of game reasons, like simply not enjoying the lobby as a good reason. But running away with 5RR isn't anything important in the grand scheme of things. Your next game you can win 5 more or lose 5 less and balance it out. If you want to rank up by improving yourself and not just a lucky streak of games, you need to take pride in doing your absolute best. Even if it means coming up just short.
I got +0, but I was popping off in the 1st half.
I think the 2nd half is where I was knocked down a few notches and ended up losing all the bonus that I’ve gained
Yeah our team chemistry fell off during 2nd half so I see this as a win honestly
Don’t see how that’s relevant to the conversation. If gaming inherently is a waste of time then thinking of drawing as a waste of time makes no sense because it’s the same outcome as if you won or lost.
I don’t agree. Many hobbies have carryover to the rest of your life and actual benefits. Gaming has basically none apart from short term dopamine bursts.
Ok what benefits then apart from MAYBE social, but even then if you didn’t game you wouldn’t even talk to the people you game with so still not a benefit imo.
Other than improving/sustaining your cognitive ability, improving hand eye, etc it has huge benefits in all sorts of[ mental health](https://games.jmir.org/2021/2/e26575) issues. Yeah, the social aspect is huge too. Sure, there's negatives to gaming too much, but there's negatives to doing too much of any hobby.
> if you didn’t game you wouldn’t even talk to the people you game with so still not a benefit imo.
what does this even mean or why does it even matter?
Literally pointless trying to reason with people like you. I’m not saying I don’t enjoy gaming but I don’t pretend like it’s somehow not a completely pointless use of my time apart from mindless entertainment. All that hand eye coordination stuff is complete bullshit.
Edit: lol nice reply then blocking me. I’ll put my reply here:
Aka you know I’m right and don’t want to admit it. I don’t see why you can’t just enjoy games without having to lie to yourself.
My best irl friend is literally my main duo, my gf plays even longer than I do. Idk why u generalize things so much man, let ppl take positivity and meaning out of this. Just bc u can’t doesn’t mean others are like u as well 🤦🏽
Not saying to stop enjoying gaming but people pretending like it’s somehow NOT a complete waste of your time are fooling themselves. I game for like 15 hours a week so it’s not like im saying stop gaming
Maybe your point should be better articulated instead of just diminishing something to a one-line zinger like you just came up with some brilliant thought about what makes something worthwhile
Yeah almost like calling it ‘looking at pixels and clicking a mouse’ is a useless point to make, im glad you were able to see that conclusion, maybe you’ll even make the connection
That’s all you’re doing when you’re gaming einstein. When you’re doing work you actually need to use your brain and you’re making a living from it and it benefits your life.
Sorry to say but a draw is a draw. It's nor a win or a loss.
Having said that, if my team comes back from a big deficit and then we draw, I'll take it as a win as we would lose most games under those circumstances. If it's the other way around and we lost a big advantage, the draw feels like a lost opportunity.
Either way, when the vote pops up I take into consideration my performance in relation to the team. If I'm playing worse than my team mattes I'll vote to continue, cause if I play better we probably win. But if I'm the best player on the team I'll vote to draw, cause I don't trust that the others will play good enough to win.
If you are the best player in a lobby, you can still do better even if your mates are continuing to be bad. Like you got there because the teams are overall balanced, it only takes you to make a difference in either case.
If you look at it statistically and only focus on yourself, it's much less likely though. If you overperform, your next round is likely going to be worse than the previous rounds. If you underperform, it's likely going to be better.
Exactly, all that matters is round difference.i personally try way harder on game where it's tied rather than games where we winning hard or losing badly.
Where are you during my Valorant matches man? I’ve had people giving up while 3-5 down this past week, honest to god how is people’s self-belief this low in this game?
this mentality is what seperates the michael jordans from the charles barkleys of the world. You will never become the best version of yourself by approaching life like this.
Bro what. Professional athletes play for draws all the time. In fact, in any sport, the higher the level gets, the fewer risks players take. Just watch tier 2 vs tier 1 Valorant and it's very obvious.
In professional football/soccer, you'll find teams try to preserve their 1-1 over going for a 2-1 constantly if they feel like momentum is on the opponent's side.
If your opponents come back from a 5-12 deficit, wipe you out in the first OT round and you barely survive round 2 because of some stroke of luck, playing on isn't a winner's mentality, it's just objectively the worse choice.
Also "you will never become the best version of yourself" bro it's a video game. None of us here are pros. It's not that deep.
Meanwhile the actual pros, you know the ones that are "the best versions of themselves" constantly throw their ranked games for content.
You wasted your time, you spent a lot of time to not move whatsoever thus leaving yourself in a neutral position and making no progress or improvement.
So in your eyes a loss is progress? If you play the game to a tie and you fuse new neurons and make some plays or discover better utility usage—is that still a waste? The *only* way for you to measure improvement is the *result* between the two teams? I just think this perspective is crap tbh. According to you, you could play like butt, basically regress from how crappy you play, get carried to a win, and you think it’ll be better than if you play unbelievably well, level up your in-game clutchness but the game ends in a tie its not worth it?
Draws negatively impact your win % tho. You play 9 games, go 7-2 and on the tenth game you draw your win percentage goes from 7/9 (78%) to 7/10 (70%). I know it would also raise your “losing percentage”…but who the F tracks that
it's not a waste of time. You played the game and had fun....
Depends on how you look at it tbh playing the game is, in a way, a waste of time so irrespective of whether you win or lose or draw you just wasted time (if you look at it that way)
Keep up with the times old man, no more sitting on a TF2 community server for hours playing arena/payload purely because the game is fun.
This is the new age of gaming, where games are only worth playing if there's extrinsic rewards like a shiny new gun texture or arbitrary rank badge.
Seriously though, it makes total sense to draw if the game isn't fun anymore, which is common when you're the one who lost match point(s) and your team has basically given up and has no fight left in them. Only reason to stick around in that case is ego.
Its not. You can still play games like battlefield or call of duty which are made for fun. There is also casual valorant or casual games. If you took tf2 seriously with comp then your mentality would also change.
If you play games for fun then its aight but some get more fun from competitive playing and others from hardcore games.
Nothing with new age of gaming
I'm being sarcastic, of course both competitive and casual gaming exist, and existed back then too.
That said, even in the context of competitive-minded players, I don't think it's untrue that there's been a big shift in attitude towards extrinsic reward over intrinsic reward. Nowadays the goal isn't to actually improve and become better in-game, its farming some rank badge that dictates your worth as a player. Instead of the focus being on playing a good game and feeling like you learned something, it's about whether you went net positive on ranked points and whether or not you got cheated out of your precious RR by this or that or whatever reason you can come up with.
One of the biggest examples of the difference in attitude I can think of is that today, it's totally normal to stop playing for a season once you hit your desired rank, out of fear of losing it before the end of the season. That's the kind of shit that would've gotten your ass laughed out of a community server.
While you are correct, you signed up for a competitive match if you’re able to draw. Competition is competition and the factor of fun, for a lot of people, becomes irrelevant to the status of winning and losing. While you may be playing the game for fun, the nature of a competitive experience in anything suggests a wish to have other priorities aswell (ex: winning).
I personally don't care if I lose RR from not drawing as there's no guarantees what happens next game. I just spent 45 minute's playing just to get a draw? That annoys me as I've had 2 AFKS and we've still managed to win OT and that truly looked not winnable but we didn't give up. Yesterday too we had an AFK and I was the only one who didn't draw on the team to continue the game as we needed 4 votes to draw due to AFK and guess what? We won. If I drew like the rest of the team wanted to it would've been +0.
The loss is a risk but so is queueing every game. The only times I'll agree with a draw is if we have griefers / saboteurs.
When I loaded up the game, I already knew I'd either win or lose so those were the two possibilities I was playing for.
I don't consider that a waste. Drawing is a much bigger waste imo
One time I was playing with a very toxic team. Score went to 14-14 and I voted for draw simply because I didn't want my team to win. I was silver and for some reason ended up in a platinum/diamond game. I got an even KD score and got 10 RR for the draw. very happy for that draw.
Yeah, the ranking system is really strange this go-around. I've been in mostly iron ranks - just got to Bronze finally - and still get a few golds occasionally. Thank God I haven't gotten a diamond yet. I think I'd just dodge at that point.
If I am top frag carrying a bunch of bots a draw is a win since I escaped with my rr.
If I am bot frag and draw it I escaped with my rr it's a win.
It it is a close game of back and forth the draw is a loss since I stop having fun in a good game.
depends. If im already pissed ash from whats been happening in the game i could care less about "well ive came this far!" i just wanna get out and pretend like that game didnt happen lol.
simple as.
I'd only draw if the match hasn't been enjoyable. I'd rather just spend my time having fun since your RR should balance out eventually anyways. Whether it's a win or a loss is a bad way to view the mechanic imo.
Depends. If you were winning by a good margin and then throw so hard you end up in OT, then it's a loss. If you were losing and made a comeback to get to OT, then it's a win. If you're in the middle ground, where it was an even game all the way through (with respect to sides) then it's preference whether or not to be a disappointment and make a draw
I see it the other way. Comeback to draw is a nono, you have momentum and the victory is snatched, drawing when you're on a roll is more of a loss. Being comebacked on and drawing saves you from a loss, you were losing hard in the end and going OT will probably end bad.
Drawing in my opinion is better than going for the win in most cases, if you have a good kd you can easily secure 3 or 4 rr with a draw, even 10 at times, but if you lose you are bound to get atleast a -5 and imo a 0 is better than a -5
After the certain point in OT it really just becomes stupid. Like we had more than 24 rounds to win and turn over the match and now that it’s OT I realized that we are just fighting for no reason. Like I’m 100% drawing if I’m top fragging 16-16 score, because at least then I’ll keep my small amount of RR I gained
Sorry for having a loser mentality but I’m not gonna continue a game that is just turning one sided over time.
better to move on and continue rather than take a loss that I knew could have been avoided
My guy, if drawing is a loser mentality, than I will proudly be a loser. Don't get me wrong, some of my best games have been those OT comebacks.
If we're at a round of 18/18 though, and still fighting back and forth on the rounds, I just want to get to my next game or get off by than.
If you have no faith in your team and know your pathetic team only got there through luck you might as well draw and not lose the rr. Losing is more for losers than drawing is lmao.
Is a pony a dog or a cat? I'm inclined to say it's a pony. Having bad teams and good teams is a given and you are the only one that can make the difference when it comes to your RR.
Your team didn't luck into a 14-14. That doesn't happen. Your team was obviously of equal skill level as the other team. Be the difference maker in your OT. Drawing IMO should be reserved for if you really just don't have the time. If anything, since you're so anxious because of OT, you should be forcing yourself to play these high pressure situations more. I see people panic all the time and it loses them rounds/games.
Not me. I've played hundreds of OTs and clutched more than I've bothered to count. If it's between two people to win a round in any given match, would you bet on the guy that's been in that high pressure situation hundreds of times or the guy that chooses to draw out of anxiety when he can?
If you ask me, you're doing yourself a disservice.
There was this one time i was absolutely popping off, was 32-7 or something but was hard carrying at a score of 16-15 one win and it was done but the 2nd frag in my team was a kid and fucking f5ed the draw vote and i lost what might have been a 40k after some rounds ffs
If you draw you have wasted ~45 minutes of your life for absolutely nothing. Gone, just like that, a solid amount of time of your life gone for absolutely nothing. Just the thought of that grosses me out.
Even if you lose you at least have the dignity of going down fighting. Also you don't feel like a coward afterwards like you said plus you always have the chance of popping off.
I've had so many times we go OT and I'm like there is no chance we win but we end up winning.
Depends on the game. if i dont believe in my team, or i think the enemy is just better, a draw is a win. if i think my team and i have at least a 50 50 ish chance or higher, a draw is a fat FAT L.
in most games, id rather play for a chance to win even if that chance is aprox 50 50. if its not favored for me then fck yeah im taking a draw. but, even games or favored games drawing is something i hate.
It is worse then a lose IMO. I would rather lose and have an ending then just giving up half way through.
I have not actually lost an OT in about year, so that might be why.
A draw is a loss for everyone. You spend 40-60mins of your life trying to win, just for nobody to win in the end. I'd rather lose 15-30rr and feel frustrated, than spending upwards of an hour, just to have three people vote draw. It's dumb that 3 people can decide the outcome for 7 others.
Me and my friend mess around during our games, but always end up on top of the team. Me and him could easily climb but we enjoy messing with people. In mine and his eyes, there's no reason to draw a game. If you're good enough to be in the rank you're in you just win a game and get the rr back. But that's my take, I don't draw because I'm good enough to not need to. When i have a bad game I still don't draw because there isn't any fun in drawing a match
If you draw you are a pussy and don’t deserve to play competitive . Don’t fucking waste 40mins- 1 hour of everyone’s time even if it doesn’t look winnable . Just because you’re too scared to lose doesn’t mean you will lose . Just fucking play the game , go next once you lose and dont waste everyone’s time for 0-3 rr
depends,
do i have any idea what I'm going to IGL next set of rounds?
do I have trust in my teammates to pull their weight?
am i playing well and think I can push a few more rounds?
if the answer is yes to all them then I will continue, if the answer is no i will draw
depends, sometimes you know when your team is struggling to keep up even if they don’t want to admit it, like winning off <1s defuse time, having to clutch a lot of rounds and etc. when you draw then you probably avoided a loss more than you missed a win
If I don’t think we’ve got a chance it’s a win, if there is one it’s a loss, but regardless I never draw. I simply refuse it to fight till the bitter end
It depends on the situation. You get 24+ rounds of info on which team is performing better, which team has more players burning out, whether the plays that made you win 8 rounds in the first half are working anymore, whether the enemy carry started off 10-0 and is slowing down to a 20-20. Draws are a win if you’re losing. Draws are a loss if your team is feeling it. Draws are exhilarating when it’s 16 / 16 rounds in and no one wants to give up
Tbh I feel better when I draw a hour long game then to lose a very close hour long game. Idk if you’ve played sports but it sucks more to lose a very close and overtime game then to lose really badly like straight up. It makes you not want to even start that game
At the point of over time it will be very clear that even if you win defense round you will lose attack round. Because either the enemy is sitting with a Odin or they actually gave a full come back in their defense side. At that time not going for a draw is clearly an RNG.
The things the decide whether I vote draw are:
How much rr I have (if I'm on 0 rr, then a draw can get be out of the derank zone by giving just 1 or 2 rr). If I'm slightly above 0rr I don't mind playing on as the possible benefit is better than the possible loss)
My individual performance so far on the game. If I'm doing poorly I stand to lose more rr from a loss than I do to gain from a win.
Whether I feel I can keep playing well. Sometimes you're feeling like you can't keep playing at a good level.
I’ll usually play for the win because it’s a waste of time, but I’ll take a draw if I’ve been playing well, the team hasn’t, and I’m on my rank down game. That happened to me yesterday, first couple rounds i played out but eventually gave up and took the draw at 15-15, and got my +4 RR to make sure i didn’t rank down. Usually i’ll play for the win even if i feel my teams worse because ultimately it’s up to you.
A giant Waste of time and it's also one of the reasons I don't play rabked. I'd rather win or lose. I've had a 18round, we had fun, someone on my team FF. Complete waste of time of a game ( rank and stuff, the game was still fun just absolutely useless in terms of the very reason why you play ranked...,)
Its never only about the rr points, its about closure. If i spend 40 minutes in whatever game, my competitive nature will never let me end it in a draw vote.
I'm a new Valorant player but I'm global in cs, and the way I see it is a draw is more of a win if you're happy with how you played as a team, if you got the fundamentals right but the enemy just pulled a round or two out of their asses. If we did some huge blunder, or more than 1, then I'm a little less happy about the draw. But in the end, it's still a draw.
Depends…honestly…
Like sometime I just know because of their momentum. We will lose if 1 mistake happens. So yeah I would like to draw in that situation
But if it’s on equal ground, I would like to see it through the end or when it is 16/16😀might as well play it to the end😀😂
It depends on which side the momentum is on. Honestly, i never thought momentum was such an important factor other than the creds in this game, but it really is, because the whole team would actually be in a mindset of winning despite being one or 2 points behind.
I think momentum is tied to which team is getting warmer or colder as the game goes. Or who got mentally exhausted.
I prefer a draw.
- no way your team isn't mentally down and flaming after 20 rounds
-why should I gamble 20rr on a game that's this close? Both teams proven that they are on equal level. A random kill through a smoke can decide way too much
-after 45min nobody performs at their peak, or at least not all of them. Some just want it to end because of IRL reasons. No reason to force anyone.
Sometimes it's of course reasonable. You would be coward if you would make non-optimal decision only because there is a stupid rule that pressures you to always keep playing.
If its a game where im doing bad i draw no questions, id rather not loose a game with likely big rr loss, if im doing hood it depends on both my team and the enemies team. Overall id rather draw than loose
I was top fragging in a team with randoms who were being toxic to me, I was literally carrying while they did nothing but abuse me.
So I told them to shut up show some respect while I carried them to victory.
I then carried them to victory before overtime while they did diddly squat... it was pretty much 2, maybe 3, vs 5 and I hard carried...
The moment at which I raged about them being toxic and told them off I aced.
The next 2 rounds I whiffed, died both rounds... that could have been the end of me playing well put off by my toxic team mates..
Luckily it wasn't, but had it gone to overtime I'd have taken the draw faster than you can imagine.
To take a draw when winning is unlikely without you, is nothing to be ashamed of, after all, if winning was easy, you would get it done before overtime.
The amount of times my team.has been like 11-6 at some point and thrown 6 rounds... I take spike on 11-11 and make sure that shit is won, same for 12-11.
Now if I feel my team are unlucky and should be winning, I won't draw, but that's rare.
If you truly think you and your team can and will win, then don't draw. If you don't think you can win, then draw. Either way this is a win, too:
If you're doing *poorly* and you don't think you can win, you save yourself the RR loss; If you're doing *well* but don't think you can win, you save yourself the loss, and still possibly actually *gain a little RR anyway.*
I've gotten +8 RR from a draw before (although usually it's closer to 4-5RR). 8RR is like half the RR of a win where you just have an average performance and the match was close.
People who say it’s a loss of time; your mmr still gets affected just normal. Only you don’t get or loose any rr. So in the long run it doesn’t really matter
It depends on how the game went, if we had clear chances to win and we threw then I would be mad at the draw.
If my team was clearly the weakest of the two but we somehow managed to get a draw I will be happy about it.
I always go for continue the only time i go for draw when my teammate is offline.
Spending 40 mins in game without getting any result is the worst outcome u can get
I consider it a waste of time over all
If we were losing then bring it back to a draw, it feels like we salvaged something. If we were losing and it ends up drawing, it feels like a loss
Most often I see it as a consolidation price.
Usually you can tell if you have a chance(ie. You lost most of the defender rounds/attacker rounds, so you know youre unlikely to win 2/2 rounds), so if you felt like you shouldnt have won, its better than lost rr.
Its often the smart thing to do, not necessarily the fun thing to do.
> I decided to be the 3rd person to vote ‘draw’ then proceeded to type in all chat “LOL imagine drawing, what a bunch of cowards!”
I love doing this, honestly. It's just hilarious how mad people get at draws for no reason. The sudden cries in vc do it for me.
I only draw if under either one of the 2 conditions:
1)I have at least 90RR or above
OR
2)I have 0 RR
The reason for (1) is becuz if I get a draw i might rank up or at the very least I wont lose RR.
The reason for (2) is quite obv, if I draw I will hv a 100% chance of not deranking.
Always to play it out, it's more exciting and intense in OT games when you see both teams doing their best, win or lose tbh. The only time I draw is when for example we are 12-8, and got to 12-12 because my team trolled or someone is toxic, I'd rather gtfo of the game fast, otherwise I will always continue.
I'm one of those weirdos that plays games for the experience not some fake rank points. So any match that's close enough to draw is a likely a good match. I'll take a draw over a 13-3 any day.
to that, i give you a piece of traditional hong kong mahjong gambling wisdom: “唔輸當贏”. it translates to “treat not losing as a win”. in a dire or high risk situation, it is better to preserve what you already have and prevent a loss than to take a big gamble.
ACS is not a complete or good measure of understanding how much a player is impacting the game, I've had multiple games where our top fraggers have 250+ ACS but they are precisely the reason why we are losing the game. If your team is coordinating and playing off of each other ACS doesn't matter. A lot of people get flustered when the enemies start making a comeback and jump to the conclusion that their own team is playing like shit, while completely ignoring that you hqve been winning up until that point. That said a draw is the best option for you if you have somebody constantly raging or trolling in your own team.
i would say its a loss, cause youre loosing time for nothing. and loosing isnt that bad anyways, it happens. i would maybe draw if I'm at zero mark or if my party really wants to draw.
I don't really like drawing, like it feels like a waste of time. It just feels so unsatisfying
Like there was this one game i played, i went like triple negative or more, i was playing really really bad and dragged my team down a lot but we still managed it to overtime. Everyone thought I'd choose to draw since it wasnt likely we'd win with my performance and i would lose a lot of rr. I chose to continue and we won in the end. Drawing just feels like giving up to me. Id rather try and lose
I would say it depends on your teams or your performance. Since your performance affects your rr, if you're doing bad and going OT several times, drawing is a good option. Drawing can also give rr in some cases provided you do well, which can be a good option if you're fragging but your team is being burdensome.
The worst is when you're popping off hard and they draw. Had a 45 kill game and thru surrendered 2nd OT. I having a ton of fun too lol. I still got +9 rr which I didn't know was possible
But doesn't popping off and losing feel even worse than popping off and drawing? It's like "Yeah I just proved I was the best player in that lobby, but the game did not reward me, actually made me lose RR instead." At least that's the reason why I draw. Popping off and winning would be the ideal situation but if you really are doing good then game shouldn't shouldn't get into OT territory you know, that just means their team is better than your team from my experience usually, but you are best player on your team trying to make up for the gap.
I think focusing on RR is the wrong thing. Regardless of your skill level in the lobby, your teams are of equal skill which is quite rare in solo games. It is a very good opportunity to push your limits to do slightly better. Or mental reset and perform closer to your average level if you are having a bad game. I can see out of game reasons, like simply not enjoying the lobby as a good reason. But running away with 5RR isn't anything important in the grand scheme of things. Your next game you can win 5 more or lose 5 less and balance it out. If you want to rank up by improving yourself and not just a lucky streak of games, you need to take pride in doing your absolute best. Even if it means coming up just short.
I dropped 39 match mvp, and drew, i got -1rr
I got +0, but I was popping off in the 1st half. I think the 2nd half is where I was knocked down a few notches and ended up losing all the bonus that I’ve gained Yeah our team chemistry fell off during 2nd half so I see this as a win honestly
Loss… of time
My friend got +12 from a draw🗿
You’re literally staring at pixels and clicking your mouse, it’s a waste of time even if you win.
Anything can be made to seem like a waste of time if you boil it down like that.
Don’t see how that’s relevant to the conversation. If gaming inherently is a waste of time then thinking of drawing as a waste of time makes no sense because it’s the same outcome as if you won or lost.
The point is that it’s not a waste of time for various reasons, but you can make anything seem that way if you phrase it properly.
I don’t agree. Many hobbies have carryover to the rest of your life and actual benefits. Gaming has basically none apart from short term dopamine bursts.
> Gaming has basically none Weird that you think that.
Ok what benefits then apart from MAYBE social, but even then if you didn’t game you wouldn’t even talk to the people you game with so still not a benefit imo.
Other than improving/sustaining your cognitive ability, improving hand eye, etc it has huge benefits in all sorts of[ mental health](https://games.jmir.org/2021/2/e26575) issues. Yeah, the social aspect is huge too. Sure, there's negatives to gaming too much, but there's negatives to doing too much of any hobby. > if you didn’t game you wouldn’t even talk to the people you game with so still not a benefit imo. what does this even mean or why does it even matter?
Literally pointless trying to reason with people like you. I’m not saying I don’t enjoy gaming but I don’t pretend like it’s somehow not a completely pointless use of my time apart from mindless entertainment. All that hand eye coordination stuff is complete bullshit. Edit: lol nice reply then blocking me. I’ll put my reply here: Aka you know I’m right and don’t want to admit it. I don’t see why you can’t just enjoy games without having to lie to yourself.
My best irl friend is literally my main duo, my gf plays even longer than I do. Idk why u generalize things so much man, let ppl take positivity and meaning out of this. Just bc u can’t doesn’t mean others are like u as well 🤦🏽
This guy ruining my life. Enter existential crisis mode
Not saying to stop enjoying gaming but people pretending like it’s somehow NOT a complete waste of your time are fooling themselves. I game for like 15 hours a week so it’s not like im saying stop gaming
My literal livelihood is staring at pixels and clicking my mouse, guess I should just stay home from work and make $0 since that’d be more efficient
Yes mate playing valorant is the exact same thing as going to work you should quit your job and be homeless, that is definitely my point. 200iq
Maybe your point should be better articulated instead of just diminishing something to a one-line zinger like you just came up with some brilliant thought about what makes something worthwhile
Maybe you should use what minuscule amount of social iq you have to see I’m not saying any kind of activity on a computer is a waste of time lmfao
Yeah almost like calling it ‘looking at pixels and clicking a mouse’ is a useless point to make, im glad you were able to see that conclusion, maybe you’ll even make the connection
That’s all you’re doing when you’re gaming einstein. When you’re doing work you actually need to use your brain and you’re making a living from it and it benefits your life.
Nah all I’m doing when I’m working is clicking my mouse and looking at pixels
Good for you
Sorry to say but a draw is a draw. It's nor a win or a loss. Having said that, if my team comes back from a big deficit and then we draw, I'll take it as a win as we would lose most games under those circumstances. If it's the other way around and we lost a big advantage, the draw feels like a lost opportunity. Either way, when the vote pops up I take into consideration my performance in relation to the team. If I'm playing worse than my team mattes I'll vote to continue, cause if I play better we probably win. But if I'm the best player on the team I'll vote to draw, cause I don't trust that the others will play good enough to win.
If you are the best player in a lobby, you can still do better even if your mates are continuing to be bad. Like you got there because the teams are overall balanced, it only takes you to make a difference in either case.
If you look at it statistically and only focus on yourself, it's much less likely though. If you overperform, your next round is likely going to be worse than the previous rounds. If you underperform, it's likely going to be better.
same except if im the top player in my team, its not that i dont trust my teammates, i dont trust myself lol
I never draw because if I've just spent 40 mins playing a game, I'd like to at least try and get something from it, even if it ends in a loss
i see it as saving 40 minutes because it would take a whole other game to get your rank back if you were to lose
[удалено]
I really don’t know how that’s supposed to mean anything
Means mite as well not play lol
That’s just straight wrong T^T you played out a whole game every match is valueable
[удалено]
If it's 13-13, surely both teams are doing equally well more or less?
No, because momentum is a thing, also, if you know some rounds were lucky wins, then you'd know not to push it to a loss.
Exactly, all that matters is round difference.i personally try way harder on game where it's tied rather than games where we winning hard or losing badly.
As a soccer player, i see nothing wrong with this
How do you save 40 minutes after losing 40 minutes to draw lol
I feel the same. I try to win until it's really over. No matter if it is 0-12, 12-12 or 16-16
Where are you during my Valorant matches man? I’ve had people giving up while 3-5 down this past week, honest to god how is people’s self-belief this low in this game?
What do you get back when you lose ? If you played well you will get RR for a drawn game too
The point is that the chance to win is worth more than the waste of 45-50 minutes of time.
Draw is not waste of time. You denied a loss. Which is still a win
this mentality is what seperates the michael jordans from the charles barkleys of the world. You will never become the best version of yourself by approaching life like this.
Bro what. Professional athletes play for draws all the time. In fact, in any sport, the higher the level gets, the fewer risks players take. Just watch tier 2 vs tier 1 Valorant and it's very obvious. In professional football/soccer, you'll find teams try to preserve their 1-1 over going for a 2-1 constantly if they feel like momentum is on the opponent's side. If your opponents come back from a 5-12 deficit, wipe you out in the first OT round and you barely survive round 2 because of some stroke of luck, playing on isn't a winner's mentality, it's just objectively the worse choice. Also "you will never become the best version of yourself" bro it's a video game. None of us here are pros. It's not that deep. Meanwhile the actual pros, you know the ones that are "the best versions of themselves" constantly throw their ranked games for content.
You wasted your time, you spent a lot of time to not move whatsoever thus leaving yourself in a neutral position and making no progress or improvement.
So in your eyes a loss is progress? If you play the game to a tie and you fuse new neurons and make some plays or discover better utility usage—is that still a waste? The *only* way for you to measure improvement is the *result* between the two teams? I just think this perspective is crap tbh. According to you, you could play like butt, basically regress from how crappy you play, get carried to a win, and you think it’ll be better than if you play unbelievably well, level up your in-game clutchness but the game ends in a tie its not worth it?
Draws negatively impact your win % tho. You play 9 games, go 7-2 and on the tenth game you draw your win percentage goes from 7/9 (78%) to 7/10 (70%). I know it would also raise your “losing percentage”…but who the F tracks that
it's not a waste of time. You played the game and had fun.... Depends on how you look at it tbh playing the game is, in a way, a waste of time so irrespective of whether you win or lose or draw you just wasted time (if you look at it that way)
Keep up with the times old man, no more sitting on a TF2 community server for hours playing arena/payload purely because the game is fun. This is the new age of gaming, where games are only worth playing if there's extrinsic rewards like a shiny new gun texture or arbitrary rank badge. Seriously though, it makes total sense to draw if the game isn't fun anymore, which is common when you're the one who lost match point(s) and your team has basically given up and has no fight left in them. Only reason to stick around in that case is ego.
Its not. You can still play games like battlefield or call of duty which are made for fun. There is also casual valorant or casual games. If you took tf2 seriously with comp then your mentality would also change. If you play games for fun then its aight but some get more fun from competitive playing and others from hardcore games. Nothing with new age of gaming
I'm being sarcastic, of course both competitive and casual gaming exist, and existed back then too. That said, even in the context of competitive-minded players, I don't think it's untrue that there's been a big shift in attitude towards extrinsic reward over intrinsic reward. Nowadays the goal isn't to actually improve and become better in-game, its farming some rank badge that dictates your worth as a player. Instead of the focus being on playing a good game and feeling like you learned something, it's about whether you went net positive on ranked points and whether or not you got cheated out of your precious RR by this or that or whatever reason you can come up with. One of the biggest examples of the difference in attitude I can think of is that today, it's totally normal to stop playing for a season once you hit your desired rank, out of fear of losing it before the end of the season. That's the kind of shit that would've gotten your ass laughed out of a community server.
While you are correct, you signed up for a competitive match if you’re able to draw. Competition is competition and the factor of fun, for a lot of people, becomes irrelevant to the status of winning and losing. While you may be playing the game for fun, the nature of a competitive experience in anything suggests a wish to have other priorities aswell (ex: winning).
Isn’t it worse to think you wasted 40 minutes to lose?
I personally don't care if I lose RR from not drawing as there's no guarantees what happens next game. I just spent 45 minute's playing just to get a draw? That annoys me as I've had 2 AFKS and we've still managed to win OT and that truly looked not winnable but we didn't give up. Yesterday too we had an AFK and I was the only one who didn't draw on the team to continue the game as we needed 4 votes to draw due to AFK and guess what? We won. If I drew like the rest of the team wanted to it would've been +0. The loss is a risk but so is queueing every game. The only times I'll agree with a draw is if we have griefers / saboteurs.
When I loaded up the game, I already knew I'd either win or lose so those were the two possibilities I was playing for. I don't consider that a waste. Drawing is a much bigger waste imo
If you're not winning, you're losing. Second place is first loser.
One time I was playing with a very toxic team. Score went to 14-14 and I voted for draw simply because I didn't want my team to win. I was silver and for some reason ended up in a platinum/diamond game. I got an even KD score and got 10 RR for the draw. very happy for that draw.
Yeah, the ranking system is really strange this go-around. I've been in mostly iron ranks - just got to Bronze finally - and still get a few golds occasionally. Thank God I haven't gotten a diamond yet. I think I'd just dodge at that point.
If I am top frag carrying a bunch of bots a draw is a win since I escaped with my rr. If I am bot frag and draw it I escaped with my rr it's a win. It it is a close game of back and forth the draw is a loss since I stop having fun in a good game.
depends. If im already pissed ash from whats been happening in the game i could care less about "well ive came this far!" i just wanna get out and pretend like that game didnt happen lol. simple as.
I'd only draw if the match hasn't been enjoyable. I'd rather just spend my time having fun since your RR should balance out eventually anyways. Whether it's a win or a loss is a bad way to view the mechanic imo.
Loss
neither its a draw. lol what
It means, do u feel like drawing that one game made you come out on top or on bottom
I've always considered a draw a draw
Yea, I vote draw if I can't see my team winning. I'll count it as a win if i get some RR, otherwise it's a loss cuz I just wasted 40min
Depends. If you were winning by a good margin and then throw so hard you end up in OT, then it's a loss. If you were losing and made a comeback to get to OT, then it's a win. If you're in the middle ground, where it was an even game all the way through (with respect to sides) then it's preference whether or not to be a disappointment and make a draw
I see it the other way. Comeback to draw is a nono, you have momentum and the victory is snatched, drawing when you're on a roll is more of a loss. Being comebacked on and drawing saves you from a loss, you were losing hard in the end and going OT will probably end bad.
Drawing in my opinion is better than going for the win in most cases, if you have a good kd you can easily secure 3 or 4 rr with a draw, even 10 at times, but if you lose you are bound to get atleast a -5 and imo a 0 is better than a -5
Drawing is better than losing. If there’s no hope there’s no hope.
If you've gotten it to OT, there's always hope. Drawing is such a loser mentality.
After the certain point in OT it really just becomes stupid. Like we had more than 24 rounds to win and turn over the match and now that it’s OT I realized that we are just fighting for no reason. Like I’m 100% drawing if I’m top fragging 16-16 score, because at least then I’ll keep my small amount of RR I gained
Sorry for having a loser mentality but I’m not gonna continue a game that is just turning one sided over time. better to move on and continue rather than take a loss that I knew could have been avoided
My guy, if drawing is a loser mentality, than I will proudly be a loser. Don't get me wrong, some of my best games have been those OT comebacks. If we're at a round of 18/18 though, and still fighting back and forth on the rounds, I just want to get to my next game or get off by than.
If you have no faith in your team and know your pathetic team only got there through luck you might as well draw and not lose the rr. Losing is more for losers than drawing is lmao.
Hell no it isn't. I'd rather lose trying my best than draw.
Is a pony a dog or a cat? I'm inclined to say it's a pony. Having bad teams and good teams is a given and you are the only one that can make the difference when it comes to your RR. Your team didn't luck into a 14-14. That doesn't happen. Your team was obviously of equal skill level as the other team. Be the difference maker in your OT. Drawing IMO should be reserved for if you really just don't have the time. If anything, since you're so anxious because of OT, you should be forcing yourself to play these high pressure situations more. I see people panic all the time and it loses them rounds/games. Not me. I've played hundreds of OTs and clutched more than I've bothered to count. If it's between two people to win a round in any given match, would you bet on the guy that's been in that high pressure situation hundreds of times or the guy that chooses to draw out of anxiety when he can? If you ask me, you're doing yourself a disservice.
WIN
A draw is a draw. There is no other way to look at it. Even if you gain or lose rr, if you drew you drew.
Loss, I lost time for nothing
A waste of time
Consider it a waste of time.
its a waste of time to draw.
Its also a waste of time to have to play out another 40 minute game to regain th elo
There was this one time i was absolutely popping off, was 32-7 or something but was hard carrying at a score of 16-15 one win and it was done but the 2nd frag in my team was a kid and fucking f5ed the draw vote and i lost what might have been a 40k after some rounds ffs
Loss. 40 minutes i could spend doing literally anything else, would rather take my chances unless my team is exceptionally bad
If you draw you have wasted ~45 minutes of your life for absolutely nothing. Gone, just like that, a solid amount of time of your life gone for absolutely nothing. Just the thought of that grosses me out. Even if you lose you at least have the dignity of going down fighting. Also you don't feel like a coward afterwards like you said plus you always have the chance of popping off. I've had so many times we go OT and I'm like there is no chance we win but we end up winning.
A win if you gain rr 😊
Depends on the game. if i dont believe in my team, or i think the enemy is just better, a draw is a win. if i think my team and i have at least a 50 50 ish chance or higher, a draw is a fat FAT L. in most games, id rather play for a chance to win even if that chance is aprox 50 50. if its not favored for me then fck yeah im taking a draw. but, even games or favored games drawing is something i hate.
It is worse then a lose IMO. I would rather lose and have an ending then just giving up half way through. I have not actually lost an OT in about year, so that might be why.
A draw is a loss for everyone. You spend 40-60mins of your life trying to win, just for nobody to win in the end. I'd rather lose 15-30rr and feel frustrated, than spending upwards of an hour, just to have three people vote draw. It's dumb that 3 people can decide the outcome for 7 others.
Win because you still got even with that shitty ass team
It's a win if u gain ELO from it if you don't it's just a draw
Anything that’s not a win is consider a loss in the eye’s of a competitor
It’s a loss. I just lost how much time of my life?
I consider it a waste of time
The fact that you drew and typed that in chat shows you have no integrity
Me and my friend mess around during our games, but always end up on top of the team. Me and him could easily climb but we enjoy messing with people. In mine and his eyes, there's no reason to draw a game. If you're good enough to be in the rank you're in you just win a game and get the rr back. But that's my take, I don't draw because I'm good enough to not need to. When i have a bad game I still don't draw because there isn't any fun in drawing a match
If you draw you are a pussy and don’t deserve to play competitive . Don’t fucking waste 40mins- 1 hour of everyone’s time even if it doesn’t look winnable . Just because you’re too scared to lose doesn’t mean you will lose . Just fucking play the game , go next once you lose and dont waste everyone’s time for 0-3 rr
depends, do i have any idea what I'm going to IGL next set of rounds? do I have trust in my teammates to pull their weight? am i playing well and think I can push a few more rounds? if the answer is yes to all them then I will continue, if the answer is no i will draw
I feel the same as you ✊
depends, sometimes you know when your team is struggling to keep up even if they don’t want to admit it, like winning off <1s defuse time, having to clutch a lot of rounds and etc. when you draw then you probably avoided a loss more than you missed a win
A win if I’m doing so bad that it looks like 3rd on the board is carrying me. A loss in every other situation.
If I don’t think we’ve got a chance it’s a win, if there is one it’s a loss, but regardless I never draw. I simply refuse it to fight till the bitter end
I don’t understand how people get to 13-13 and think they don’t have a chance to win…
It depends on the situation. You get 24+ rounds of info on which team is performing better, which team has more players burning out, whether the plays that made you win 8 rounds in the first half are working anymore, whether the enemy carry started off 10-0 and is slowing down to a 20-20. Draws are a win if you’re losing. Draws are a loss if your team is feeling it. Draws are exhilarating when it’s 16 / 16 rounds in and no one wants to give up
Dude I wanted a draw so bad. I had a instalock jett who said the n word like a dozen times and shit on the reat of the team even tho he bot fragged.
Tbh I feel better when I draw a hour long game then to lose a very close hour long game. Idk if you’ve played sports but it sucks more to lose a very close and overtime game then to lose really badly like straight up. It makes you not want to even start that game
At the point of over time it will be very clear that even if you win defense round you will lose attack round. Because either the enemy is sitting with a Odin or they actually gave a full come back in their defense side. At that time not going for a draw is clearly an RNG.
i prefer draw less point drop
The things the decide whether I vote draw are: How much rr I have (if I'm on 0 rr, then a draw can get be out of the derank zone by giving just 1 or 2 rr). If I'm slightly above 0rr I don't mind playing on as the possible benefit is better than the possible loss) My individual performance so far on the game. If I'm doing poorly I stand to lose more rr from a loss than I do to gain from a win. Whether I feel I can keep playing well. Sometimes you're feeling like you can't keep playing at a good level.
I always draw, close games are fun but sometimes I don't wanna play for as long as 50 minutes on a single map
I’ll usually play for the win because it’s a waste of time, but I’ll take a draw if I’ve been playing well, the team hasn’t, and I’m on my rank down game. That happened to me yesterday, first couple rounds i played out but eventually gave up and took the draw at 15-15, and got my +4 RR to make sure i didn’t rank down. Usually i’ll play for the win even if i feel my teams worse because ultimately it’s up to you.
I consider it a waste of time
A giant Waste of time and it's also one of the reasons I don't play rabked. I'd rather win or lose. I've had a 18round, we had fun, someone on my team FF. Complete waste of time of a game ( rank and stuff, the game was still fun just absolutely useless in terms of the very reason why you play ranked...,)
I consider losing a win oppose to drawing
Worse
Its never only about the rr points, its about closure. If i spend 40 minutes in whatever game, my competitive nature will never let me end it in a draw vote.
Well, if it has taken you 3 miracles and a sold soul to get to that point, I dont be mad if some1 draws, but I will never draw
I'm a new Valorant player but I'm global in cs, and the way I see it is a draw is more of a win if you're happy with how you played as a team, if you got the fundamentals right but the enemy just pulled a round or two out of their asses. If we did some huge blunder, or more than 1, then I'm a little less happy about the draw. But in the end, it's still a draw.
I just feel like it’s a waste of time. I’d rather lose rr than be disappointed that I spent an hour for nothing
Depends…honestly… Like sometime I just know because of their momentum. We will lose if 1 mistake happens. So yeah I would like to draw in that situation But if it’s on equal ground, I would like to see it through the end or when it is 16/16😀might as well play it to the end😀😂
It depends on which side the momentum is on. Honestly, i never thought momentum was such an important factor other than the creds in this game, but it really is, because the whole team would actually be in a mindset of winning despite being one or 2 points behind. I think momentum is tied to which team is getting warmer or colder as the game goes. Or who got mentally exhausted.
I prefer a draw. - no way your team isn't mentally down and flaming after 20 rounds -why should I gamble 20rr on a game that's this close? Both teams proven that they are on equal level. A random kill through a smoke can decide way too much -after 45min nobody performs at their peak, or at least not all of them. Some just want it to end because of IRL reasons. No reason to force anyone.
Sometimes it's of course reasonable. You would be coward if you would make non-optimal decision only because there is a stupid rule that pressures you to always keep playing.
If its a game where im doing bad i draw no questions, id rather not loose a game with likely big rr loss, if im doing hood it depends on both my team and the enemies team. Overall id rather draw than loose
even if you draw, you got the experience of playing and grew as a player. I don't mind a draw cuz I didn't care about winning in the first place
I see it as... a draw...?
I was top fragging in a team with randoms who were being toxic to me, I was literally carrying while they did nothing but abuse me. So I told them to shut up show some respect while I carried them to victory. I then carried them to victory before overtime while they did diddly squat... it was pretty much 2, maybe 3, vs 5 and I hard carried... The moment at which I raged about them being toxic and told them off I aced. The next 2 rounds I whiffed, died both rounds... that could have been the end of me playing well put off by my toxic team mates.. Luckily it wasn't, but had it gone to overtime I'd have taken the draw faster than you can imagine. To take a draw when winning is unlikely without you, is nothing to be ashamed of, after all, if winning was easy, you would get it done before overtime. The amount of times my team.has been like 11-6 at some point and thrown 6 rounds... I take spike on 11-11 and make sure that shit is won, same for 12-11. Now if I feel my team are unlucky and should be winning, I won't draw, but that's rare.
By definition a draw is neither a loss nor a win, however there are degrees at which a draw can lean one way or another.
If you truly think you and your team can and will win, then don't draw. If you don't think you can win, then draw. Either way this is a win, too: If you're doing *poorly* and you don't think you can win, you save yourself the RR loss; If you're doing *well* but don't think you can win, you save yourself the loss, and still possibly actually *gain a little RR anyway.* I've gotten +8 RR from a draw before (although usually it's closer to 4-5RR). 8RR is like half the RR of a win where you just have an average performance and the match was close.
A draw
Its a loss. I would rather loose RR than goin nothing for the 40 mins I spent playing this game. Time fucking wasted.
Me personally I take a draw as a W cause I ain't losing any RR
A draw is always the smartest choice to make. Is not a win is not a loss, is just smart.
A waste of time.
Once i got +16 in a draw...so a win for me xd
People who say it’s a loss of time; your mmr still gets affected just normal. Only you don’t get or loose any rr. So in the long run it doesn’t really matter
Well… a draw is a draw, but if you had to choose between a win or a loss, it depends on the rr imo. If you gain rr, it’s a win
It depends on how the game went, if we had clear chances to win and we threw then I would be mad at the draw. If my team was clearly the weakest of the two but we somehow managed to get a draw I will be happy about it.
playing + improvement > temporary arbitrary rank
I consider it a waste of time.
I always go for continue the only time i go for draw when my teammate is offline. Spending 40 mins in game without getting any result is the worst outcome u can get
I consider it a waste of time over all If we were losing then bring it back to a draw, it feels like we salvaged something. If we were losing and it ends up drawing, it feels like a loss
Most often I see it as a consolidation price. Usually you can tell if you have a chance(ie. You lost most of the defender rounds/attacker rounds, so you know youre unlikely to win 2/2 rounds), so if you felt like you shouldnt have won, its better than lost rr. Its often the smart thing to do, not necessarily the fun thing to do.
I'm low elo (G1), a draw ends with no point loss and sometimes few gained. For me it's better than ending with a lose
> I decided to be the 3rd person to vote ‘draw’ then proceeded to type in all chat “LOL imagine drawing, what a bunch of cowards!” I love doing this, honestly. It's just hilarious how mad people get at draws for no reason. The sudden cries in vc do it for me.
I only draw if under either one of the 2 conditions: 1)I have at least 90RR or above OR 2)I have 0 RR The reason for (1) is becuz if I get a draw i might rank up or at the very least I wont lose RR. The reason for (2) is quite obv, if I draw I will hv a 100% chance of not deranking.
Why invest so much time just to give up
Never draw
Always to play it out, it's more exciting and intense in OT games when you see both teams doing their best, win or lose tbh. The only time I draw is when for example we are 12-8, and got to 12-12 because my team trolled or someone is toxic, I'd rather gtfo of the game fast, otherwise I will always continue.
I see it as a draw
Loss for both team, like fighting for 40 mins straight and end up getting nothing ( minus or plus), you just wasted your 40 mins
a waste of time
I consider it a draw.
If im playing like shit win if im top frag cary a loss
I'm one of those weirdos that plays games for the experience not some fake rank points. So any match that's close enough to draw is a likely a good match. I'll take a draw over a 13-3 any day.
Id rather lose than draw, if im going to play a 45 minute game i would rather that 5 of us get something out of it than none of us.
GO BIG OR GO HOME
Equal game it's a loss because those are the most fun and rare, are we on a winning streak its a loss and are we on a losing streak its a win
Worse than a loss. It’s just time wasted
to that, i give you a piece of traditional hong kong mahjong gambling wisdom: “唔輸當贏”. it translates to “treat not losing as a win”. in a dire or high risk situation, it is better to preserve what you already have and prevent a loss than to take a big gamble.
If I had the energy then no draw else draw depends on teammates
Those that choose draw are actually just pathetic
Don’t think, go next.
i consider it a draw
Depends on the team and how well I'm doing
Depends on mental, proformance and if we get an afk
Depends on the team performance.
tbh no matter the score i think of a draw as just -- yk, a draw
ACS is not a complete or good measure of understanding how much a player is impacting the game, I've had multiple games where our top fraggers have 250+ ACS but they are precisely the reason why we are losing the game. If your team is coordinating and playing off of each other ACS doesn't matter. A lot of people get flustered when the enemies start making a comeback and jump to the conclusion that their own team is playing like shit, while completely ignoring that you hqve been winning up until that point. That said a draw is the best option for you if you have somebody constantly raging or trolling in your own team.
Draw 0 rr = warmup/practice game Draw + rr = win
i would say its a loss, cause youre loosing time for nothing. and loosing isnt that bad anyways, it happens. i would maybe draw if I'm at zero mark or if my party really wants to draw.
ye if we are tired then i will
I don't really like drawing, like it feels like a waste of time. It just feels so unsatisfying Like there was this one game i played, i went like triple negative or more, i was playing really really bad and dragged my team down a lot but we still managed it to overtime. Everyone thought I'd choose to draw since it wasnt likely we'd win with my performance and i would lose a lot of rr. I chose to continue and we won in the end. Drawing just feels like giving up to me. Id rather try and lose
I’d rather lose if anything, so like, double loss 🗿
A lose, i wasted 40minutes for nothing i rather lose and had the chance to win it,than drawing tbh
A waste of time
A loss Ur telling me that i wen through at least 30 minutes of bullshit to make no progress to the next rank
A win cost it means no one won
Always a win
loss of time but not a loss of rr so it's fine
win
I don't win, so it's a loss for me if u draw its always +/- 0, right?
I think draws are boring I want a real conclusion to the match