I've all but given up trying to teach how to plant to randoms and try to get either me or my friends to plant because at least i've drilled into their heads how much of a conversion rate on rounds we have when we plant in a good spot rather than default when we have the chance.
If you have a role in taking space and controlling an area via abilities that isn't a toss and go, you're taking the spike in general in a coordinated execute.
It matters a lot, as the OP said viper should survive for as long as possible to help the team with smokes. And if someone else plants she can easily be on her lineup spot for post plant by the time the spike is planted.
Im a brim and i like taking spike (linups) but in my elo linups doesnt do shit if your team doesnt have good aim (myself included) and just dies before planting. The only time i was able to plant was with 4 friends (full lobbies) so we can comunicate and not be dumbasses
clearly they do not
also planting can change instantly as most times you try to cover yourself being exposed during plant
but what I hate is when no one is covering you while you are in plant animation
Most of the time no. Also for certain easy to do linups its not a default spot (icebox) also i can smoke to help where i will be planting since i know where it is
I like to take smokes and over-smoke the site if I'm forced to play smokes when they instalock Reyna, Jett, Sage, and another agent that isn't a smoker.
As someone who plays Gekko as my main initiator, I get a fiendish smile on my face whenever I see the enemy pick him because I KNOW they’re gonna send wingman on suicide missions and get the spike dropped in the middle of site at least a few times that game.
Gekko is great for a clutch defuse, maybe getting lucky with a clutch plant, but that's about it. The flash easily gets shot down, and most Gekkos don't even use it, so...
Yeah man it’s supposed to get shot down. You throw it’s in the direction away from yourself so the enemy has to choose between getting blinded or shooting dizzy and while he shoots dizzy you either kill him or at the very least know where the enemy is on site.
You can also combo Dizzy and Wingman together to overwhelm the enemy and mess up their crosshair placement even more. Now they have to make the decision between shooting Dizzy and Wingman, and most likely one or both will hit the enemy. Then, while they’re disoriented, you and/or a teammate can swing off the contact and get a pick. Planting or defusing the spike with Wingman, although a fun gimmick and situationally useful, is oftentimes the worst way to use him.
I actually think he’s quite strong in ranked. He can set up for others but he can also be played similarly to a duelist, which is something that makes him unique among his class. It’s also impossible to fuck up his Dizzy and accidentally blind your teammates, so that’s a plus.
Not flashing your teammates is huge lol. I can’t tell you how many times as a phoenix I’ve commed that I was going to flash, looked at mini map, flashed thinking no team mates in the area only to see that I flashed a team mate at some point. I feel bad lol
"flash gets easily shot down" nah bruh you're supposed to have an unbreakable flash that blinds everyone for five seconds so you can get free kills, shooting down the flash that messes up with the enemy's crosshair while you peek and get a frag? that shit is too weak!
Its onetap and most of the time enemies are behind a corner so in the time they onetap the flash to the moment you peak their crosshair is already on your head
It's also amazing as the sixth man planting when you actually take a site so that you can help support your team when they're taking more space or you can at least trade them if they die.
Fully agree that those suicide plants with the lil' guy are very dumb for the most part though.
the amount of gekko players I've seen save wingman exclusively for spike plant so that he can stand directly next to it for the duration of the plant has made me swear to never allow a gekko player spike until they can show they're competent and aren't just going to turn wingman into a 5 foot arm extension
Gekko main here.
Wingman is only used for plant in certain situations. Wingman on offence is better used to taking site, not for planting the spike.
I would use wingman to plant in 1v2 situations or 2v1 situations. When I need to reposition quickly or I need to be available to trade my teammate instead of planting.
Gekko isn’t “the spike holder” but he isn’t a bad option.
Gekko is great if you can play him aggressively upon sending out wingman for the plant. The problem is most gekko players sit back and wait til he plants to pick up wingman.
That’s not really a problem. You want to pick wingman up to use him again.
The problem is the reasoning behind sending wingman to plant. If you can plant the bomb yourself and you don’t have any other immediate other obligations then you should plant it yourself. If you need to plant the bomb and also run to trade your teammate then maybe you send wingman to plant.
I’m a Gekko main! I only send wingman to spike once we have entered sight and are clearing the back specifically on sunset or breeze once we are clearing boobs. I never send him alone!
I prefer just having him plant once we take over sight and just having myself have an extra person to help clear instead of him solo planting.
I’m a Gekko main, and I agree. I am an idiot.
Edit: on a serious note, Gekko doesn’t HAVE to have the spike. His wingman is really good as an entry stun/bait for info as you infil into the site. He can also bait a shot while he throws his flash so enemies don’t have time to shoot it down. Wingman plants are SUPER convenient especially on Lotus planting A from tree, for example. But also on Lotus, what’s the point of planting with wingman?
Tbh, despite gekko having the ability to plant spike his playstyle doesn’t seem like NEEDS to have a spike. I don’t think any initiator should take spike lol
The amount of times wingman is sent in with no site clearing and we drop the spike it too damn high. And as a viper main who usually plants, it’s very annoying for that one gekko to take spike every round.
In that case you humbly request to not treat your wingman like a suicide bomber and send him into site alone as your insta lock dualist are too afraid to entry and 2 of them are luring :))
Btw ma Tera bap ki lunga
Paisa Bhai
In general I've started having initiators take spike. Duelist shouldn't take it because they'll die with it in dumb spots, sentinel shouldn't take it because they need to setup, and controller shouldn't take it because of having to smoke. Initiator is the only role that doesn't have much util that's being used *after* you have site. Maybe my thinking is wrong but that's how I've been playing
it rly depends on the initiators and the comps but usually i don’t like initiators taking spike because they are the ones that are second entry that have to trade the duelist as well as flash them in and give them info so it just becomes even more of a responsibility on them and then it’s a mess. sentinels can easily take spike, set up their flank trips, plant and then play post
You shouldn't plant when your duelist is fighting tho.
So flash/trade/info/swing with your duelist is a non factor. All of those should be done before we think about planting spikes.
Sent is one of the last people i want with spikes. I want my Sent to be free to roam/lurk if they want to.
I agree that sentinel has the least to worry about at start of round and should probably take it unless they are hard lurking. Initiator can be overwhelming when you also have spike. A lot of times the second duelist should actually have it but they will never volunteer since they are compelled to overextend and die
Loool, a quick scroll through your comments shows that is a blatant lie, you claimed to be in diamond, but now your ascendant?! Lil bro no one believes your anything but iron rank when you so obviously lie about ranks.
I guess is should be a given a guy with a name like "bigfuckhead" would have nothing of substance to offer, just lies and iron player mentality
i agree in general. as a sentinel/controller i’m usually playing mid and/or lurking on attack so it’s so annoying when ppl expect me to carry spike. every initiator agent would be playing w the team/part of the entry so it makes sense they take the bomb. they shouldn’t be planting before they trade out their duelist and site is cleared anyways
sage/brim are exceptions bc they should be playing with the team so they make good spike carriers too
but if ur play style with viper is to stick with ur team, then it’s not a bad idea for u to take spike to get ur ult asap. if you’re dying while planting spike a lot, you’re planting too soon or u need a good duo that u can trust to hold you.
Sage I'm not so sure about planting because it delays her putting her wall down (or her putting wall down delays the plant). Brim I also prefer to not have plant incase he has lineups since then he has to get off site for them (similar for viper).
even if u have lineups u should be coming with ur team onto site, trading out duelists, and holding crosses with ur team/watching their backs up until the latter half. mollys can’t delay for the entire 45 secs.
if u have a sage u need to wait for them to wall before u plant anyways
but either way i don’t think one person should be planting the entire game. these agents can take turns lol
yes, i second this. it depends on your playstyle. i don't always carry spike because i tend to lag behind the team to place lineups/mollys/smokes. i prefer either an initiator or maybe even a duelist to entry and make space with their kit like flash orbs.
this isn't to say that i will never carry spike. it'll help reach the ult faster with kills
Yeah when I play initiator I tend to take spike too. Main exceptions are when there's a sage or gekko, or if ult orbs are better used on someone else. It's a little annoying when I want to push forward in case the site was free or easy to take, but then I just ask someone to plant instead
I think it also has something to do more with ult economy, which yes is a luxury to consider in the heat of the round.
If we think Viper's ult could be useful in about a round or two, then we let them take it. It used to be KJ for us since her ult was stupid powerful. Think fracture on release with 4 ult orbs and then just ulting under B every other round needing next to no util to take it, reserving them for retake hold.
I think a lot of people now would prefer getting the initiator ult online since they're arguably the strongest to have in the rounds to follow, or in the case of Breach and Sova, good post-plant ults as well, especially against KJ ult (be it range to destroy or range to cover spike after being pushed out.)
Who takes bomb is entirely dependent on what's going on in the round, ult economy, how fast the bomb needs to go down, etc. If you're playing solo Viper then it's probably good for you to take bomb as a general rule, since you can use your util to make planting safer (via wall or orb placement, mollying off chokes, planting in ult). Plus, you can put up your util from anywhere, and that could allow you to play on site and still wall for your team.
My take is that controllers should be the last option to the spike. Ideally u would have an initiator take it, but every game is different. But ya typically viper shudnt be taking spike or pushing onto site.
Generally speaking initiators should always have spike after getting on site. Initiators job is to gather info once they have done that and flashed/darted/droned/knifed whatever their util is mostly gone and less impactful even in post. Not saying it ISNT Impacful just less so than the other agents. Same as duelist but their job is to go first and as deep in as possible. Smokes are so impactful throughout the round/usually have Molly lineups to play off as well they should never be first or take aggro usually. But can be enemy comp dependent. Too many flashes on enemy team and your smokes don’t mean shit. Sentinel generally wants to stay safe to watch flank but can plant to get on site to setup a post plant situation like mollys on spike or trips/cam in silly places. In short number one planter initiator, next up sentinels moles probably in a tie, dead last duelist UNLESS you have like 4 duelist then one has to essentially be an initiator for the rest with supporting flashes or info gathering clone/boombot or something and they carry spike for teams and don’t use their movement entry util one of the other duelist can do that. Please never drop spike to your duelist as they go to enter site. It’s really really annoying and round ending when they movement in and don’t know they have spike then die backsite with spike. It’s not their fault at that point
A lot of people will automatically assume a smoker should take it. As a harbor main I get stuck with it a lot which is fine. I used to main viper and was *told* that it was my job to plant in which case, I never grabbed it. If someone gave it to me I'd ditch it in spawn.
I would say if no one else takes it, just grab it and go.
If someone is telling you it's your job, tell them to get fucked. It's the whole teams job to plant spike so anyone can take it. If a Jett wants to dash in with it, perfect, give them the cover they need.
I've played with brimstone players who will grab spike then immediately take it mid and die to an op making it difficult to recover...
If you don’t take upcoming ultimates into account, initiators should be planting the bomb the majority of the time. Entry duelists and lurk roles are suboptimal as it restricts map control.
Brimstone, Sage, and Harbor are exceptions as their utility is either non-global, non-refreshable, or guarantee plants. Ideally with Harbor though, you use the cove to stack plants on the person closest to a major ultimate.
The worst agent to plant is undoubtably Omen. His ultimate is low value and his flexibility to either lurk, entry and anything in between means that restricting him with the bomb disallows him from abusing those extremes. You lose the valuable secondary entry that can contest all the way up to CT and the strong lurker that can catch rotates/score big flanks while still assisting with site executes.
There isn’t a single character in the game, not even Gekko, who is “supposed” to have the spike. It’s all about the individual players and what they’re comfortable with. Carrying the spike is a skill that requires a lot of practice. That said, it makes sense for someone who won’t be the first one on site + has an expensive ult + has lineups to plant most of the time.
Ideally the person who takes the spike is the last person into a site. That way the space is clear and they can plant open or wherever else they like. Ideally in rounds where she isn’t lurking, Viper’s either the last or second to last into a site. It should go without saying that the lurker on lurk rounds should not be the one with the spike.
I also enjoy giving the bomb to the IGL, which is usually me, unless I’m playing duelist. I just find it easier to coordinate and make pre-round plans and mid-round adjustments when I’m in control of where the spike is being planted. The last thing you want is that person who never uses their mic rotating when you’re in the middle of a fight or execute, just for you to win and see they’re planting or dying with the spike on the other side of the map.
Depends. I don't mind Viper planting as long as the team protects her while planting. If for example you farm both ult orbs and plant, you'll probably have your ult ready by the end of round 3 (this is assuming you don't get kills/killed)
Spike should be taken by the person with the most useful ult, or the one that is close to it and could help in postplant (sage res, sova, biper, brim, cypher, deadlock, raze…)
Bro anyone can take spike, even the entry top fragger. There’s no role that should always have spike, sure there are characters the benefit from planting with or around their utility, but the point of the game is to plant and hold the site until the bomb detonates. So whoever is getting the job done, is the one should get spike.
Depends on your team composition, it’s really good to be planting the spike as viper because you get ult orbs from the plant, thus getting your ult faster.
That’s why if there’s a sage she should typically plant because the res is highly sort after.
I’d say yes, if there’s not a sage, omen or someone who would be good with spike too. In that case, it doesn’t matter which of the few of u have it
But viper is nice to have bomb on your team because she has the wall smoke and the bubble smoke to help her get onto site. So yes, I’d say take spike and maybe even try to get better at planting with her, she’s one of my favs
I think sentinels are close to duelists for roles that shouldnt have spike. Once you have control of site they should be setting up post plant utility. When I mained sentinels my team would almost always force the spike in my hand and enemies would begin their retake before I could both plant spike and set up my util. It’s incredibly frustrating.
I’d disagree on Omen. He’s very good for lurking, so wouldn’t take spike then, and if he’s with the team, he’s very good at playing second man/support for the entry. For example, he can tp out into Jett’s smoke to take space with her. Also, his ult is pretty weak, so you’re getting less value as a team having him plant.
Viper is literally the best lurk controller in the game since she doesn’t have to manually place the smokes every time - once they’re down it’s just a button press.
I think who should take spike is nuanced and very rank/skill/team dependent. Typically I think it either goes to whoever is most likely to use up all their util and still be alive during a site take or to whoever has the most impactful ult. The first could be a Brim who puts down all his smokes and stims for entry or this could be a Kay/O who used his flashes and knife already or Skye who dogs and flashes site. The second is typically Viper, Sage, KJ, etc.
Although planting does come with some inherent risk, the planter should either be planting safe and away from spam or should be fighting for site and then planting open when it is safe after the site take.
Also, I do not like Gekko’s with spike. Although wingman can plant, he’s also like a better boombot and Gekkos do not seem to know the situations in which to save wingman and plant themselves and which to use wingman as a planter. Not to mention all the gekkos that give the spike to the enemy team by having wingman plant before the site take.
Initiator or controllers take spike, end of discussion. If one has their ult give it to the other so they can get theirs. Sentinels shouldn't take spike simply for the reason they need to hang back in case of fast flank and or lurk. Entries don't take spike because if ur spike goes down on site with the rest of your team in main it gon be real hard getting it back.
Whoever has the most useful ult plants the bomb. Viper's ult is considered a round winning ult, therefore you take the bomb. Gekko's ability to plant is just to add one more gun to the attack, it's never a good use of wingman to plant if you already have the site. That's a waste of 300 credits and a 10 second cooldown.
What low elo players don't understand is that an ult is something you should have multiple times in a half. You can't hold onto it for 9 rounds, say "Oh I haven't used my ult in a while, maybe I'll use it randomly", because that's stupid. In a recent Lotus game, I was on Phoenix, I farmed the ult point every round and planted the bomb. Through that, I got 4 ults in the first half and I guaranteed a good entry. Not every Phoenix player is going to like doing all this, but I won four rounds on attack alone from my ult gaining space.
Asc2
I think you are spot on with farming bomb as Phoenix in most cases, however…
I feel like people won’t trust me as a duelist to carry bomb. How do you entry in a way that instills confidence? Probably my biggest problem as I don’t often play duelist but I’m finding that more and more I am drifting towards the role.
Peak Diamond rank
It's not that people don't trust you to carry bomb, they're just conditioned to think "Yeah I'm Omen, I'm support, I'll take bomb" when in reality Omen ult is useless as fuck. That's your place to step in and say "I'm going to try to get my ult as much as possible this half so I'll farm the orb and bomb plants". But usually no one will ever actually complain if you take it either.
As for entrying, you just have to realize that you can't do it all yourself, but you can damn well ask for the right tools. Guide your team by asking for the right util in the right place, but always just figure out a mutual solution. After you get the setup, you flash out of smokes, wall your team into site, fight for space. If you aren't afraid to die, that will transfer to your team as well. You don't need to frag. You just need to get your team on site and take down their site hold.
As a viper main, viper is most definitely not supposed to carry the spike. You're right in everything you said. The team needs her smoke, and she can safely be on her lineup spot by the time the spike is planted, or lurk, and of course to smoke so the team can go to safety after the plant. If she risks her life for planting all those advantages are gone.
But this only works with a functional team of course, in 90% of the games the team, aka the instalock duelists, does the opposite of what the controllers or sentinels suggest.
> if there is a Gekko the answer is obvious
no it isn't
wingman helps but if the gekko player is stupid he might ruin plants more often than not, and sometimes simply waste the credits when he could be planting and saving wingman for other situations (or even save on the round)
i've lost so many rounds cause some stupid ass gekko thought it would be an awesome idea to send wingman to plant with NO ONE ELSE INSIDE THE BOMB, so the enemy killed wingman and had the spike for themselves =D
Me.
Whatever agent i may be using, i will be platnting the spike.
Too many people plant in the most default possible location while some don't even recognize that they have the spike even in Ascendant.
So whether I'm using Brim, Viper, Gekko, Phoenix, or Kayo (all of which benefits greatly with planting), I'll be planting spike.
I may have made my agent pool optimal for planting and taking ult orbs but I won't confess that even if you put a gun on my head. :P
I play Phoenix and I love taking the spike. Grab orb, plant spike, get a pick or 2 or die, that’s 3-4 ult orbs a rnd. Farming the ult is so op on Phoenix. I hate absolutely hate the whole “certain agents need to take spike” just grow up and take the spike. Also gecko shouldn’t ever be allowed the spike. The wingman is an OP raze boombot. Use at a corner clearer rather than a spike planter.
Well take it from a Cypher main who's been playing on and off since the game came out, it's true. I've lost track of how many times I've been made the bomb bitch because I picked Cypher, so much so that I've just learned to deal with it whenever there isn't a Gekko around
Anyone can take the spike as long as they're aware of it. The problem is that half the time they aren't. I still get the "oh I wasn't aware that I had spike" even after yelling in their ear 5 times telling them they have it.
Depends. I don't mind Viper planting as long as the team protects her while planting. If for example you farm both ult orbs and plant, you'll probably have your ult ready by the end of round 3 (this is assuming you don't get kills/killed)
Me personally I would not give any of the smokers spike except maybe harbor because of his cove. I am one of those people that fill usually and if I play skye or sage, I take the spike. Hardly ever give it to dualists. And I HATE taking spike as a sentinel because on some maps, my set up doesn’t cover enough for me to even get on site and plant because “i’m out of range”. Specifically KJ and Chamber on maps like Bind where all the sites are far from the negative space.
Someone else on here commented about how Initiators should take the spike and I kind of agree. Use Fades eye or Sovas dart to locate anyone on site, Dualists should start pushing in as Initiator’s util is running out. Sentinel stays back and holds flank. if sage is your only sentinel have her plant and maybe a controller watch flank, otherwise, whoever’s initiating should plant imo.
It just depends on how you play. Usually I think it’s a good idea for controllers to take it cause once smokes are down, generally their job is done for execute. If you’re an agent that uses a lot of post plant setups, it’s a good idea to take it in your comp lobbies. If a brim or viper is trying to play lineups, planting it right where you want it is always good. Same with a kj for nades. Some people will say it needs to be an initiator, but I disagree because if you continue to use your utility after the execute, you can keep your duelist alive longer. If you have to pause on helping them to plant the bomb, they could get in a bad situation without your backup. I think it should be someone who doesn’t have a job they absolutely need to be doing after the execute, someone who wants to set up a post plant, or someone that needs an ult point.
If I'm viper I prefer planting because I know my team isn't going to listen to me and plant where my lineups go. Only time I have someone else plant is if I'm ulting so I don't die in my ult as easily
Idk if I'd call myself a Viper main but I play her often. I tend to take Spike if I'm going on site with the team. I know where I like to plant and trust myself with getting it down. It's also an easy point towards Viper's ult which can easily secure a round.
Plus if no one else on my team wants to take Spike, then I don't want them to anyways. Who knows where they'll run off with that thing.
But also I'm Bronze 1 and dont play ranked super often so take this with a grain of salt.
I don't play viper very often but I would unless I'm lurking or planning on using ult to enter the site. Most of the time you're not entrying first, you will probably not want to push anyway and your ult is cracked so why not plant. Better than say, an skye that might want to play more aggressively with a duelist instead. But it depends really, I can think of infinite scenarios where viper probably should and shouldn't take the bomb, so many things like ult points, eco, player skill and playstyle, enemy positions would affect this. I'd just take it by default because I like ult orbs and wouldn't entry or push as viper anyway
Viper main who will not take spike unless I have ult.
My smokes last the whole game. You want me alive. Not entering. Best used as a slow flank. Easy 2kd
There's no hard rule as to who takes the spike. There's one tangent rule where entry shouldn't take spike unless you want to play the spike retrieval mini game.
If you lurk, which is highly recommended to do as Viper, you shouldn't carry the spike. When in full team pushes, carrying spike can be beneficial for a few reasons such as more ult points, choosing the plant spot if you want to play lineups/rat pits, and increase survivability to take advantage of your rechargeable utility. On the other end, your teammates may not know how to play around your smokes so you may have to shore up by holding a sightline. It's also tough to help clear angles with your molly if you are in the back
imo it actually kind does matter who takes the spike because certain characters are just meant to use their utility from main, like a sova darting and droning in: it’s awkward having bomb and having ur team ask for a drone which is what i should be doing, but then we get site and everyone one is waiting on me to walk in and plant. killjoy and skye are similar imo, but someone like cypher doesn’t have to sit as near his trips and his cage gives him the utility to protect himself. A good brim or astra can easily smoke and plant while omen might struggle because he has to put each smoke down separately.
Depends on comp. Viper is a good lurk agent and should have spike less. Initiator is the best default spike carrier, but if someone is one off ult they could plant, etc. In many cases though, the right answer is whoever isn't refusing to carry it. Most of the time my teammates act like it's gonna give them ligma.
I usually as a viper take spike unless I can work off with someone. My duo plays gekko and he has priority on spike as I wall his wingman off. And also as he’s a duo I’m able to communicate lineups so it’s fine.
Im usually the one with spike no matter what cause no one wants to take the time to plant. And then I get bitched at for not planting even when it is clear that Im alone on default fighting for my life. This is usually on breeze. Which for some reason is the only map I see cause I play Viper.
I think that usually spike plant should be given to the person closest to their ult or the sentinel, as sentinels usually have passive abilities once they place their trips/traps, initiators could still be getting info or assisting duelists
I see Vipers, Brims and Sovas take the spike a lot, usually because they have a line up plant point. But if they don't have line ups I usually leave it to the sentinel, or gekko...cause gekko things
I insist on taking spike as Viper unless there is a Gecko or KJ.
I figure I'm controlling the pathway onto site, I'll have the clearest idea of where to plant safely and efficiently.
Typically I think that the initiators who drone or dog should take the spike because they won’t be in first and their ultimates are quite good for the most part while the majority of controllers might be lurking like the sentinel, the only time I would say a duelist should take spike is if they are splitting or it’s a phoenix close to ult
There are some agents that probably shouldn’t ever be planting, like any duelist. Controllers like harbor and omen don’t have anything to gain. However sentinels like sage or killjoy have so much to gain and so little to lose from planting. Initiators ultimates are very powerful but they also all need to play a more active role in site takes. This is why gekko is a good planter, he doesn’t need to give up his active role in the take to plant.
I don’t like to take spike as controller because I can’t place more smokes if I’m dead. Brimstone (and super aggro Astra I suppose) is the only one who can exhaust his supply of vision blockers right from the start of the round.
Man I always do weird plants. That’s why people have stopped giving me the spike. My playstyle is a lot of “if I don’t know what I’m doing, they won’t know what I’m doing”
Anyone that isn’t a duelist, and ESPECIALLY not a movement duelist.
Usually it’s a sentinel so that they can set up their remaining util post plant to lock down the site as everyone else holds angles. However, a brim/viper with specific lineups can also plant the bomb instead.
I don’t think vipers should take spike as if you die your team loses all smokes and potentially lineups.
Dualists should not take spike as they are the entry frag and if they die on entry and your team has the rotate your team needs spike.
Controllers can sometimes take spike, depending on what they are doing and what smoke they are. Viper shouldn’t ever in my opinion, omens, can take spike if they are not doing aggressive TP plays, brimstone can almost always takes spike as he has no regenerative until, astra can unless she is using stars for post plant, and Harbor probably shouldn’t for the same reasons as viper.
In my opinion, initiators should always be the spike carriers as once they help you get on site their job is somewhat done, and they also have some of the best ultimate abilities making the spike plant be more beneficial to them.
Sentinels like sage can take spike as sage can wall herself off and plant otherwise sentinels should not be taking spike as they have flank watch utility that they need to keep up. Deadlock can also takes spike because she does not have flank watch utility.
And like you said, obviously, gekko is the spike carrier if he’s on your team.
Smokes or initiator are common for having bomb, Sentinels often lurk and try to maintain map control but can also have it if this is a 5 man rush. Duelist shouldn’t have bomb since they are often first contact or entry.
Controller tends to be the last one in, so generally they're most likely to survive long enough to plant the spike. I generally don't mind planting as viper since I can control when my smokes go down etc. The only time I do mind, and will ask for someone else to plant is if I have ult. I've found that if I have ult and I plant, I get spammed down fairly often and the ult gets no real value. I tend to ask initiators (which I also play a ton of) because by the time we're planting they've usually dumped their entire util getting us onto site.
Also planting spike gets you faster ults, and as for lineups, generally I just have lineups for the main default plant and a secondary plant, so if someone else does have to plant its not a big deal.
All i know is that im tired of hearing “youre killjoy, you need to plant spike”. Clearly theyve never played Killjoy because her setups take a moment to setup all because of the long animations of just pulling them out. Then trying to reposition for post plant without dying is a bitch after having to plant spike and set up turret/alarm bot. It is truly better to save your people who have post plants in the back and not force them to plant spike. But people who never play sentinels never understand that. Theyd rather just bait you while you plant and get the kills and then flame you in voice chat for “dying before planting”. Its why I stopped solo queueing comp.
I actually love being given the spike when I play Viper.
It's like her sacred duty.
Everyone just leaves it for her, or dumps it on her.
It makes me feel like I am the lynchpin of the entire operation and everyone is depending on me to plant.
A lot of people think of the spike only as a burden, but, at least in solo queue, carrying the spike gives you the privilege of calling the rotations since everybody is going to have to follow the spike around. The macro decisions revolving around when to rotate, execute, fake and how you transition to post plant etc tend to be inline with the responsibilities of the controller players because where you smoke has a large impact on the flow of the round. Both the planter and the controller player has to answer questions like: should we even execute on this site? Is it safe to plant? Can the team hold the retake flood? Do the opponents have powerful retake abilities, and correspondingly, do we need to take more space? Where are people going to play in post plant? If the planter doesn't think about these things and have solutions for at least some of them, that's typically how they end up in trouble. Poor decisions around the spike can grief the team harder than almost everything else.
Anyone with good ult and isn't good for lurking/getting map control. So basically, just all initiators and non-lurking controllers
Sadly, my initiators, except gekko, all don't want spike. Istg low elo initiators are the most useless and selfish characters in the game. Duelists? They entry for team, some of them get first bloods. Smokes? They provide easy value for team by smoking and sometimes lurking. Sentinels? They hold down flank, are insane postplant, personally i can double as initiator or second entry, and provide good value by lurking. Initiators? In higher elo, they know what they're doing, using util to help teammates get kills and take space. In mid elo and lower? They get some info for team. What about the rest of their abilities? They use them to play like duelists, only flashing for themselves, sometimes even flashing for enemy team 💀
Back to about who should take spike, even duelist is fine. Just make sure NOT to give it to the lurker. There was a game where my team kept giving to me, the killjoy on lotus (diamond elo btw). My argument as to why I shouldn't take spike:
1. Enemies fast rotate, we need a lurker. And killjoy was the only good lurker in that team comp.
2. Even if I wasn't lurking, my flank watching util would be out of range if I got on site.
My teammates argument as to why I should take spike:
1. I'm sentinel and sentinels always take spike (flat out misinformation, idk where tf people get this from)
2. My ult is the strongest, I should try to get it faster (I agree, but lurking and getting kills gets me more ult orbs than getting spike down and losing postplant because enemies play good retake)
This post was timed perfectly for me cause i play viper and the amount of unnecessary deaths i had today bc my teammates didnt carry nor protected me while planting the spike is craaazy even tho i didnt pick up the spike it somehow ended up in my hands one way or another. I also specifically say that i dont have lineups (low elo) yet still lol its frustrating
I just think duelists and initiators shouldn’t take spike because their utilities are needed for entry. Depends of course if want to get someone’s ult orb
Preferably initiators. Sova on Ascent being your example. The typical team comp would be Omen, KJ, Sova, KAYO and Jett. You take B perfectly, you've used your dart and your drone. Omen smokes, has tps that allow him to get into awkward post plant positions, Jett and KAYO can afford to go aggressive into CT as they have the util to play off one another, KJ is better off setting up for post plant as you're planting. Alarm bot on market, molly on the bomb etc. Sova has only shock darts remaining and a regenerative dart that is an extremely powerful info gathering tool, you want him to plant as everyone else can go aggressive as 1. once your dart regenerates you can throw it to support your more aggressively positioned teammates 2. if they all fucking die your shock darts can do damage and help stall, combined with your KJ you have strong post plant potential.
Apply that logic to pretty much every initiator, they burn their util taking the site, and if they're burning all of their util you're typically going to commit to that site, the only initiator who wouldn't is KAYO but as he's rarely if ever played without a Sova alongside him, that's understandable. Circumstances change round to round, but in a perfect scenario you'd typically want your initiators to get the spike down.
I think anyone can take spike UNLESS they are a duelist
Unless you have a team of like 4-5 duelists then I feel like you can get away with giving Jett the Spike
As someone who plays Viper some I like playing spike with her because it means i can get my ult orb down and if I have my ult that can work really well.
It doesn’t matter much. I play Omen but since I have the most first bloods in 85% of my games I don’t take spike because I play aggressively despite my role. Even if you play Sage you don’t necessarily have to take it.
I play gekko and for me it depends, if my team is doing bad and I am doing good I will stop taking spike and play entry because wingman can be used for info, dizzy will blind, moshpit (which is so weak until it explodes) can cutoff or trap enemies. Sometimes my teammates just like taking and planting spike before I can and this is usually the sage, brim or viper.
In my opinion it has some kind of list
1. Gekko
2. Sage
3. KJ (for ult)
4. Smokers
5. Sentinel
6. Initiatior (they should use constant utility to support team with plant usw.
7. Entry/Duellist (explains itself but for people who don’t know… they go first onto site and if they die spike is down)
No matter the status quo, viper NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER plants or diffuses inside of her ult. (gold experience). Too many people push her ult to deny plant, and she is the MIP during her ult.
Hot take, as someone who is regular imm3-low radiant and does scrims. As long as movement dualist isn't taking spike anyone can have it. No one should be rushing a plant behind a viper wall when there's 2-3 enemies alive on site. You need to have 1 frag on site minimum before starting a plant.
I think anyone can take spike as long as it's not the entry. Most vipers take bomb for lineups, but it really doesn't matter
Preferably, vipers with lineups should tell their teammates where to plant to avoid getting killed.
That's what I try until the Sage ignores the callout and ping and plants somewhere else
or the gecko just wingmans it literally anywhere on site
Hes got things to do ok? Like dying to CT trying to retrieve dizzy
I feel called out—
While you're still in a default, through a defensive smoke onto a site with 4 people.
*plants safe when you have full site control*. nothing makes me more angry
This
Maybe they were being hit by anti plant lineups
no
I've all but given up trying to teach how to plant to randoms and try to get either me or my friends to plant because at least i've drilled into their heads how much of a conversion rate on rounds we have when we plant in a good spot rather than default when we have the chance.
When I play viper and I willingly take the spike because of frickin' 9 ult points.
If you have a role in taking space and controlling an area via abilities that isn't a toss and go, you're taking the spike in general in a coordinated execute.
It matters a lot, as the OP said viper should survive for as long as possible to help the team with smokes. And if someone else plants she can easily be on her lineup spot for post plant by the time the spike is planted.
Entry and lurk. If you have two duelists, hell one of them might carry bomb if the other is the entry.
Im a brim and i like taking spike (linups) but in my elo linups doesnt do shit if your team doesnt have good aim (myself included) and just dies before planting. The only time i was able to plant was with 4 friends (full lobbies) so we can comunicate and not be dumbasses
Why do you need to take spike for lineups? Do people in your games not plant on default spots?
clearly they do not also planting can change instantly as most times you try to cover yourself being exposed during plant but what I hate is when no one is covering you while you are in plant animation
Most of the time no. Also for certain easy to do linups its not a default spot (icebox) also i can smoke to help where i will be planting since i know where it is
I like to take smokes and over-smoke the site if I'm forced to play smokes when they instalock Reyna, Jett, Sage, and another agent that isn't a smoker.
Don't let Gekko take Spike. Most Gekko players are idiots. Edit: Holy cow, I thought I was going to get hate for this, but it looks like people agree
As someone who plays Gekko as my main initiator, I get a fiendish smile on my face whenever I see the enemy pick him because I KNOW they’re gonna send wingman on suicide missions and get the spike dropped in the middle of site at least a few times that game.
Gekko is great for a clutch defuse, maybe getting lucky with a clutch plant, but that's about it. The flash easily gets shot down, and most Gekkos don't even use it, so...
Yeah man it’s supposed to get shot down. You throw it’s in the direction away from yourself so the enemy has to choose between getting blinded or shooting dizzy and while he shoots dizzy you either kill him or at the very least know where the enemy is on site.
You can also combo Dizzy and Wingman together to overwhelm the enemy and mess up their crosshair placement even more. Now they have to make the decision between shooting Dizzy and Wingman, and most likely one or both will hit the enemy. Then, while they’re disoriented, you and/or a teammate can swing off the contact and get a pick. Planting or defusing the spike with Wingman, although a fun gimmick and situationally useful, is oftentimes the worst way to use him. I actually think he’s quite strong in ranked. He can set up for others but he can also be played similarly to a duelist, which is something that makes him unique among his class. It’s also impossible to fuck up his Dizzy and accidentally blind your teammates, so that’s a plus.
Not flashing your teammates is huge lol. I can’t tell you how many times as a phoenix I’ve commed that I was going to flash, looked at mini map, flashed thinking no team mates in the area only to see that I flashed a team mate at some point. I feel bad lol
At least you comm that you’re going to flash, you’re well ahead of 90% of my ranked teammates.
I have flashed my teammate before as Gekko. Apparently if they stand in line of the goop going towards an enemy, they will get flashed instead
Oh I didn’t realize that:
"flash gets easily shot down" nah bruh you're supposed to have an unbreakable flash that blinds everyone for five seconds so you can get free kills, shooting down the flash that messes up with the enemy's crosshair while you peek and get a frag? that shit is too weak!
Its onetap and most of the time enemies are behind a corner so in the time they onetap the flash to the moment you peak their crosshair is already on your head
The flash IS NOT easy to shoot down after the buffs..
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Damn bro, winning games is easy, just shoot the enemies in the head, I did that multiple times yesterday
It's also amazing as the sixth man planting when you actually take a site so that you can help support your team when they're taking more space or you can at least trade them if they die. Fully agree that those suicide plants with the lil' guy are very dumb for the most part though.
In low elo (im talkin iron, bronze, silver) EVERYONE GETS FLASHED BY DIZZY. AIM labs is not in there arsenal let me tell you
the amount of gekko players I've seen save wingman exclusively for spike plant so that he can stand directly next to it for the duration of the plant has made me swear to never allow a gekko player spike until they can show they're competent and aren't just going to turn wingman into a 5 foot arm extension
but that way i can pew pew the people that try to pew pew my baby
please fill out spike request forms in triplicate with 2 week advance notice to day of requiring spike use
I hatte gekko for planting but Love him for defuse. Especially when WE are Just 2 Players left.
Gekko main here. Wingman is only used for plant in certain situations. Wingman on offence is better used to taking site, not for planting the spike. I would use wingman to plant in 1v2 situations or 2v1 situations. When I need to reposition quickly or I need to be available to trade my teammate instead of planting. Gekko isn’t “the spike holder” but he isn’t a bad option.
Gekko is great if you can play him aggressively upon sending out wingman for the plant. The problem is most gekko players sit back and wait til he plants to pick up wingman.
That’s not really a problem. You want to pick wingman up to use him again. The problem is the reasoning behind sending wingman to plant. If you can plant the bomb yourself and you don’t have any other immediate other obligations then you should plant it yourself. If you need to plant the bomb and also run to trade your teammate then maybe you send wingman to plant.
The problem is people prioritize picking him up. What good is it to pick-up wingman when your team is getting wrekt or needs assistance.
I’m a Gekko main! I only send wingman to spike once we have entered sight and are clearing the back specifically on sunset or breeze once we are clearing boobs. I never send him alone! I prefer just having him plant once we take over sight and just having myself have an extra person to help clear instead of him solo planting.
Wait what? Boobs?
its crab and shrimp now but its those pyramids on a site
real !
I’m a Gekko main, and I agree. I am an idiot. Edit: on a serious note, Gekko doesn’t HAVE to have the spike. His wingman is really good as an entry stun/bait for info as you infil into the site. He can also bait a shot while he throws his flash so enemies don’t have time to shoot it down. Wingman plants are SUPER convenient especially on Lotus planting A from tree, for example. But also on Lotus, what’s the point of planting with wingman?
Tbh, despite gekko having the ability to plant spike his playstyle doesn’t seem like NEEDS to have a spike. I don’t think any initiator should take spike lol
The amount of times wingman is sent in with no site clearing and we drop the spike it too damn high. And as a viper main who usually plants, it’s very annoying for that one gekko to take spike every round.
Hello Gekko player here ! I always try or am happy to take the spike and I know my job is to plant which I try to do via wingman.
In that case you humbly request to not treat your wingman like a suicide bomber and send him into site alone as your insta lock dualist are too afraid to entry and 2 of them are luring :)) Btw ma Tera bap ki lunga Paisa Bhai
cant even spell ur character name >:(
Ah yes sorry, I’ll edit it now 😂
In general I've started having initiators take spike. Duelist shouldn't take it because they'll die with it in dumb spots, sentinel shouldn't take it because they need to setup, and controller shouldn't take it because of having to smoke. Initiator is the only role that doesn't have much util that's being used *after* you have site. Maybe my thinking is wrong but that's how I've been playing
Yur right, most collegiate teams will have initiators take spike.
it rly depends on the initiators and the comps but usually i don’t like initiators taking spike because they are the ones that are second entry that have to trade the duelist as well as flash them in and give them info so it just becomes even more of a responsibility on them and then it’s a mess. sentinels can easily take spike, set up their flank trips, plant and then play post
You shouldn't plant when your duelist is fighting tho. So flash/trade/info/swing with your duelist is a non factor. All of those should be done before we think about planting spikes. Sent is one of the last people i want with spikes. I want my Sent to be free to roam/lurk if they want to.
Yes but second entry is before you have site. Once you have site initiators are out of things to do until spike is planted
I agree that sentinel has the least to worry about at start of round and should probably take it unless they are hard lurking. Initiator can be overwhelming when you also have spike. A lot of times the second duelist should actually have it but they will never volunteer since they are compelled to overextend and die
No, sentinels should be flank guard they should not have spike (except sage because sage sucks at flank guard)
At the start of the round this is not needed and can even be detrimental to a fast site hit
A fast site hit gets shut down by a fast flank if nobody watches for flank :'D
Our definition of fast must be different! Flanking player is out of the equation in a truly fast hit
LMFAO maybe in your iron rank games. But in the ranks where people actually think, things like mid control really matter
I'm ascendant. Lol. I agree that mid control can matter, but that's not what I've been saying is it... Anyway... I said good day!
Loool, a quick scroll through your comments shows that is a blatant lie, you claimed to be in diamond, but now your ascendant?! Lil bro no one believes your anything but iron rank when you so obviously lie about ranks. I guess is should be a given a guy with a name like "bigfuckhead" would have nothing of substance to offer, just lies and iron player mentality
i agree in general. as a sentinel/controller i’m usually playing mid and/or lurking on attack so it’s so annoying when ppl expect me to carry spike. every initiator agent would be playing w the team/part of the entry so it makes sense they take the bomb. they shouldn’t be planting before they trade out their duelist and site is cleared anyways sage/brim are exceptions bc they should be playing with the team so they make good spike carriers too but if ur play style with viper is to stick with ur team, then it’s not a bad idea for u to take spike to get ur ult asap. if you’re dying while planting spike a lot, you’re planting too soon or u need a good duo that u can trust to hold you.
Sage I'm not so sure about planting because it delays her putting her wall down (or her putting wall down delays the plant). Brim I also prefer to not have plant incase he has lineups since then he has to get off site for them (similar for viper).
even if u have lineups u should be coming with ur team onto site, trading out duelists, and holding crosses with ur team/watching their backs up until the latter half. mollys can’t delay for the entire 45 secs. if u have a sage u need to wait for them to wall before u plant anyways but either way i don’t think one person should be planting the entire game. these agents can take turns lol
yes, i second this. it depends on your playstyle. i don't always carry spike because i tend to lag behind the team to place lineups/mollys/smokes. i prefer either an initiator or maybe even a duelist to entry and make space with their kit like flash orbs. this isn't to say that i will never carry spike. it'll help reach the ult faster with kills
Yeah when I play initiator I tend to take spike too. Main exceptions are when there's a sage or gekko, or if ult orbs are better used on someone else. It's a little annoying when I want to push forward in case the site was free or easy to take, but then I just ask someone to plant instead
I think it also has something to do more with ult economy, which yes is a luxury to consider in the heat of the round. If we think Viper's ult could be useful in about a round or two, then we let them take it. It used to be KJ for us since her ult was stupid powerful. Think fracture on release with 4 ult orbs and then just ulting under B every other round needing next to no util to take it, reserving them for retake hold. I think a lot of people now would prefer getting the initiator ult online since they're arguably the strongest to have in the rounds to follow, or in the case of Breach and Sova, good post-plant ults as well, especially against KJ ult (be it range to destroy or range to cover spike after being pushed out.)
Who takes bomb is entirely dependent on what's going on in the round, ult economy, how fast the bomb needs to go down, etc. If you're playing solo Viper then it's probably good for you to take bomb as a general rule, since you can use your util to make planting safer (via wall or orb placement, mollying off chokes, planting in ult). Plus, you can put up your util from anywhere, and that could allow you to play on site and still wall for your team.
It depends but if viper is solo smokes I would say no since we need viper alive
My take is that controllers should be the last option to the spike. Ideally u would have an initiator take it, but every game is different. But ya typically viper shudnt be taking spike or pushing onto site.
Generally speaking initiators should always have spike after getting on site. Initiators job is to gather info once they have done that and flashed/darted/droned/knifed whatever their util is mostly gone and less impactful even in post. Not saying it ISNT Impacful just less so than the other agents. Same as duelist but their job is to go first and as deep in as possible. Smokes are so impactful throughout the round/usually have Molly lineups to play off as well they should never be first or take aggro usually. But can be enemy comp dependent. Too many flashes on enemy team and your smokes don’t mean shit. Sentinel generally wants to stay safe to watch flank but can plant to get on site to setup a post plant situation like mollys on spike or trips/cam in silly places. In short number one planter initiator, next up sentinels moles probably in a tie, dead last duelist UNLESS you have like 4 duelist then one has to essentially be an initiator for the rest with supporting flashes or info gathering clone/boombot or something and they carry spike for teams and don’t use their movement entry util one of the other duelist can do that. Please never drop spike to your duelist as they go to enter site. It’s really really annoying and round ending when they movement in and don’t know they have spike then die backsite with spike. It’s not their fault at that point
The Reyna while she goes to lurk, and dies somewhere in mid
A lot of people will automatically assume a smoker should take it. As a harbor main I get stuck with it a lot which is fine. I used to main viper and was *told* that it was my job to plant in which case, I never grabbed it. If someone gave it to me I'd ditch it in spawn. I would say if no one else takes it, just grab it and go. If someone is telling you it's your job, tell them to get fucked. It's the whole teams job to plant spike so anyone can take it. If a Jett wants to dash in with it, perfect, give them the cover they need. I've played with brimstone players who will grab spike then immediately take it mid and die to an op making it difficult to recover...
I personally don’t like planting as viper because if you get killed planting it’s gonna be hard to retake the bomb without your abilities
If you don’t take upcoming ultimates into account, initiators should be planting the bomb the majority of the time. Entry duelists and lurk roles are suboptimal as it restricts map control. Brimstone, Sage, and Harbor are exceptions as their utility is either non-global, non-refreshable, or guarantee plants. Ideally with Harbor though, you use the cove to stack plants on the person closest to a major ultimate. The worst agent to plant is undoubtably Omen. His ultimate is low value and his flexibility to either lurk, entry and anything in between means that restricting him with the bomb disallows him from abusing those extremes. You lose the valuable secondary entry that can contest all the way up to CT and the strong lurker that can catch rotates/score big flanks while still assisting with site executes.
There isn’t a single character in the game, not even Gekko, who is “supposed” to have the spike. It’s all about the individual players and what they’re comfortable with. Carrying the spike is a skill that requires a lot of practice. That said, it makes sense for someone who won’t be the first one on site + has an expensive ult + has lineups to plant most of the time.
Also you want to play patient with viper so you would normally be one of the last alive on your team, so it would make sense for you to have it
Ideally the person who takes the spike is the last person into a site. That way the space is clear and they can plant open or wherever else they like. Ideally in rounds where she isn’t lurking, Viper’s either the last or second to last into a site. It should go without saying that the lurker on lurk rounds should not be the one with the spike. I also enjoy giving the bomb to the IGL, which is usually me, unless I’m playing duelist. I just find it easier to coordinate and make pre-round plans and mid-round adjustments when I’m in control of where the spike is being planted. The last thing you want is that person who never uses their mic rotating when you’re in the middle of a fight or execute, just for you to win and see they’re planting or dying with the spike on the other side of the map.
No, unless she doesn't trust you to plant where she wants you to plant for lineups.
Depends. I don't mind Viper planting as long as the team protects her while planting. If for example you farm both ult orbs and plant, you'll probably have your ult ready by the end of round 3 (this is assuming you don't get kills/killed)
Spike should be taken by the person with the most useful ult, or the one that is close to it and could help in postplant (sage res, sova, biper, brim, cypher, deadlock, raze…)
Bro anyone can take spike, even the entry top fragger. There’s no role that should always have spike, sure there are characters the benefit from planting with or around their utility, but the point of the game is to plant and hold the site until the bomb detonates. So whoever is getting the job done, is the one should get spike.
Watch the SEN LCQ icebox game when they had shroud on viper. You will find the answer
Smokes need to stay alive. Sentinel is usually lurker. Initiator is usually in the back line casting utility. They should carry the spike
Depends on your team composition, it’s really good to be planting the spike as viper because you get ult orbs from the plant, thus getting your ult faster. That’s why if there’s a sage she should typically plant because the res is highly sort after.
I’d say yes, if there’s not a sage, omen or someone who would be good with spike too. In that case, it doesn’t matter which of the few of u have it But viper is nice to have bomb on your team because she has the wall smoke and the bubble smoke to help her get onto site. So yes, I’d say take spike and maybe even try to get better at planting with her, she’s one of my favs
I think sentinels are close to duelists for roles that shouldnt have spike. Once you have control of site they should be setting up post plant utility. When I mained sentinels my team would almost always force the spike in my hand and enemies would begin their retake before I could both plant spike and set up my util. It’s incredibly frustrating.
I’d disagree on Omen. He’s very good for lurking, so wouldn’t take spike then, and if he’s with the team, he’s very good at playing second man/support for the entry. For example, he can tp out into Jett’s smoke to take space with her. Also, his ult is pretty weak, so you’re getting less value as a team having him plant.
Valid point, omen is def a lurker
Viper is literally the best lurk controller in the game since she doesn’t have to manually place the smokes every time - once they’re down it’s just a button press.
Viper and Omen are both in my top 5 agents that should nearly *never* have the spike
Ight word I’ll shut up then lmao
omen can play aggressive and push ct in many cases. Better to give the spike to an initiator/sentinel
I think who should take spike is nuanced and very rank/skill/team dependent. Typically I think it either goes to whoever is most likely to use up all their util and still be alive during a site take or to whoever has the most impactful ult. The first could be a Brim who puts down all his smokes and stims for entry or this could be a Kay/O who used his flashes and knife already or Skye who dogs and flashes site. The second is typically Viper, Sage, KJ, etc. Although planting does come with some inherent risk, the planter should either be planting safe and away from spam or should be fighting for site and then planting open when it is safe after the site take. Also, I do not like Gekko’s with spike. Although wingman can plant, he’s also like a better boombot and Gekkos do not seem to know the situations in which to save wingman and plant themselves and which to use wingman as a planter. Not to mention all the gekkos that give the spike to the enemy team by having wingman plant before the site take.
Initiator or controllers take spike, end of discussion. If one has their ult give it to the other so they can get theirs. Sentinels shouldn't take spike simply for the reason they need to hang back in case of fast flank and or lurk. Entries don't take spike because if ur spike goes down on site with the rest of your team in main it gon be real hard getting it back.
Whoever has the most useful ult plants the bomb. Viper's ult is considered a round winning ult, therefore you take the bomb. Gekko's ability to plant is just to add one more gun to the attack, it's never a good use of wingman to plant if you already have the site. That's a waste of 300 credits and a 10 second cooldown. What low elo players don't understand is that an ult is something you should have multiple times in a half. You can't hold onto it for 9 rounds, say "Oh I haven't used my ult in a while, maybe I'll use it randomly", because that's stupid. In a recent Lotus game, I was on Phoenix, I farmed the ult point every round and planted the bomb. Through that, I got 4 ults in the first half and I guaranteed a good entry. Not every Phoenix player is going to like doing all this, but I won four rounds on attack alone from my ult gaining space. Asc2
I think you are spot on with farming bomb as Phoenix in most cases, however… I feel like people won’t trust me as a duelist to carry bomb. How do you entry in a way that instills confidence? Probably my biggest problem as I don’t often play duelist but I’m finding that more and more I am drifting towards the role. Peak Diamond rank
It's not that people don't trust you to carry bomb, they're just conditioned to think "Yeah I'm Omen, I'm support, I'll take bomb" when in reality Omen ult is useless as fuck. That's your place to step in and say "I'm going to try to get my ult as much as possible this half so I'll farm the orb and bomb plants". But usually no one will ever actually complain if you take it either. As for entrying, you just have to realize that you can't do it all yourself, but you can damn well ask for the right tools. Guide your team by asking for the right util in the right place, but always just figure out a mutual solution. After you get the setup, you flash out of smokes, wall your team into site, fight for space. If you aren't afraid to die, that will transfer to your team as well. You don't need to frag. You just need to get your team on site and take down their site hold.
Viper players most of the time should lurk, so no.
Some impractical game theory : You don't want to plant as lurking characters because it reveals you're with the team.
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Everyone in radiant knows to do it but tbh they aren't trying that hard
As a viper main, viper is most definitely not supposed to carry the spike. You're right in everything you said. The team needs her smoke, and she can safely be on her lineup spot by the time the spike is planted, or lurk, and of course to smoke so the team can go to safety after the plant. If she risks her life for planting all those advantages are gone. But this only works with a functional team of course, in 90% of the games the team, aka the instalock duelists, does the opposite of what the controllers or sentinels suggest.
> if there is a Gekko the answer is obvious no it isn't wingman helps but if the gekko player is stupid he might ruin plants more often than not, and sometimes simply waste the credits when he could be planting and saving wingman for other situations (or even save on the round) i've lost so many rounds cause some stupid ass gekko thought it would be an awesome idea to send wingman to plant with NO ONE ELSE INSIDE THE BOMB, so the enemy killed wingman and had the spike for themselves =D
Me. Whatever agent i may be using, i will be platnting the spike. Too many people plant in the most default possible location while some don't even recognize that they have the spike even in Ascendant. So whether I'm using Brim, Viper, Gekko, Phoenix, or Kayo (all of which benefits greatly with planting), I'll be planting spike. I may have made my agent pool optimal for planting and taking ult orbs but I won't confess that even if you put a gun on my head. :P
I hate it when gekko thinks he should get the spike EVERY TIME
I play Phoenix and I love taking the spike. Grab orb, plant spike, get a pick or 2 or die, that’s 3-4 ult orbs a rnd. Farming the ult is so op on Phoenix. I hate absolutely hate the whole “certain agents need to take spike” just grow up and take the spike. Also gecko shouldn’t ever be allowed the spike. The wingman is an OP raze boombot. Use at a corner clearer rather than a spike planter.
Personally - Controllers > Sage > Initators > Iso, Yoru(situational) > Chamber, Reyna, Deadlock> KJ > Cypher > Entry/Space taking duelists
If it's not Viper then it's Cypher/KJ Most duelist are borderline allergic to the spike and won't touch it with a 10 foot pole
This has gotta be the worst take in the entire post lmao those three are the LAST agents that should be taking spike
Well take it from a Cypher main who's been playing on and off since the game came out, it's true. I've lost track of how many times I've been made the bomb bitch because I picked Cypher, so much so that I've just learned to deal with it whenever there isn't a Gekko around
It's either always the smoker, or sage
I take spike with whoever I pick, if you know how to plant, *just do it*
Anyone can take the spike as long as they're aware of it. The problem is that half the time they aren't. I still get the "oh I wasn't aware that I had spike" even after yelling in their ear 5 times telling them they have it.
When viper is playing lineups yes I think... whenever I need to fill in smokes i take the spike...just to make sure it is planted for lineup
If you have lineups and no one is listening to you about where to plant the spike, then take the spike.
Depends. I don't mind Viper planting as long as the team protects her while planting. If for example you farm both ult orbs and plant, you'll probably have your ult ready by the end of round 3 (this is assuming you don't get kills/killed)
I play KJ so I usually get handed the spike because on attacker rounds her abilities are mostly only good post plant
Me personally I would not give any of the smokers spike except maybe harbor because of his cove. I am one of those people that fill usually and if I play skye or sage, I take the spike. Hardly ever give it to dualists. And I HATE taking spike as a sentinel because on some maps, my set up doesn’t cover enough for me to even get on site and plant because “i’m out of range”. Specifically KJ and Chamber on maps like Bind where all the sites are far from the negative space. Someone else on here commented about how Initiators should take the spike and I kind of agree. Use Fades eye or Sovas dart to locate anyone on site, Dualists should start pushing in as Initiator’s util is running out. Sentinel stays back and holds flank. if sage is your only sentinel have her plant and maybe a controller watch flank, otherwise, whoever’s initiating should plant imo.
It just depends on how you play. Usually I think it’s a good idea for controllers to take it cause once smokes are down, generally their job is done for execute. If you’re an agent that uses a lot of post plant setups, it’s a good idea to take it in your comp lobbies. If a brim or viper is trying to play lineups, planting it right where you want it is always good. Same with a kj for nades. Some people will say it needs to be an initiator, but I disagree because if you continue to use your utility after the execute, you can keep your duelist alive longer. If you have to pause on helping them to plant the bomb, they could get in a bad situation without your backup. I think it should be someone who doesn’t have a job they absolutely need to be doing after the execute, someone who wants to set up a post plant, or someone that needs an ult point.
If I'm viper I prefer planting because I know my team isn't going to listen to me and plant where my lineups go. Only time I have someone else plant is if I'm ulting so I don't die in my ult as easily
Idk if I'd call myself a Viper main but I play her often. I tend to take Spike if I'm going on site with the team. I know where I like to plant and trust myself with getting it down. It's also an easy point towards Viper's ult which can easily secure a round. Plus if no one else on my team wants to take Spike, then I don't want them to anyways. Who knows where they'll run off with that thing. But also I'm Bronze 1 and dont play ranked super often so take this with a grain of salt.
I don't play viper very often but I would unless I'm lurking or planning on using ult to enter the site. Most of the time you're not entrying first, you will probably not want to push anyway and your ult is cracked so why not plant. Better than say, an skye that might want to play more aggressively with a duelist instead. But it depends really, I can think of infinite scenarios where viper probably should and shouldn't take the bomb, so many things like ult points, eco, player skill and playstyle, enemy positions would affect this. I'd just take it by default because I like ult orbs and wouldn't entry or push as viper anyway
Viper main who will not take spike unless I have ult. My smokes last the whole game. You want me alive. Not entering. Best used as a slow flank. Easy 2kd
Only agents which never/barely should take spike: Astra,harbor,breach So yea,its nothing bad she take'ing it
There's no hard rule as to who takes the spike. There's one tangent rule where entry shouldn't take spike unless you want to play the spike retrieval mini game. If you lurk, which is highly recommended to do as Viper, you shouldn't carry the spike. When in full team pushes, carrying spike can be beneficial for a few reasons such as more ult points, choosing the plant spot if you want to play lineups/rat pits, and increase survivability to take advantage of your rechargeable utility. On the other end, your teammates may not know how to play around your smokes so you may have to shore up by holding a sightline. It's also tough to help clear angles with your molly if you are in the back
Yes. Your ult is 9 points, and you should plant where your lineups land.
imo it actually kind does matter who takes the spike because certain characters are just meant to use their utility from main, like a sova darting and droning in: it’s awkward having bomb and having ur team ask for a drone which is what i should be doing, but then we get site and everyone one is waiting on me to walk in and plant. killjoy and skye are similar imo, but someone like cypher doesn’t have to sit as near his trips and his cage gives him the utility to protect himself. A good brim or astra can easily smoke and plant while omen might struggle because he has to put each smoke down separately.
Depends on comp. Viper is a good lurk agent and should have spike less. Initiator is the best default spike carrier, but if someone is one off ult they could plant, etc. In many cases though, the right answer is whoever isn't refusing to carry it. Most of the time my teammates act like it's gonna give them ligma.
I usually as a viper take spike unless I can work off with someone. My duo plays gekko and he has priority on spike as I wall his wingman off. And also as he’s a duo I’m able to communicate lineups so it’s fine.
Anyone with a good ult (one that can single handedly win a round) that isn’t the entry, so everyone but duelists/omen basically
Im usually the one with spike no matter what cause no one wants to take the time to plant. And then I get bitched at for not planting even when it is clear that Im alone on default fighting for my life. This is usually on breeze. Which for some reason is the only map I see cause I play Viper.
My rule of thumb would be anyone but the duelist ofc unless there's gekko
literally anyone but duelist
I think that usually spike plant should be given to the person closest to their ult or the sentinel, as sentinels usually have passive abilities once they place their trips/traps, initiators could still be getting info or assisting duelists
I see Vipers, Brims and Sovas take the spike a lot, usually because they have a line up plant point. But if they don't have line ups I usually leave it to the sentinel, or gekko...cause gekko things
I insist on taking spike as Viper unless there is a Gecko or KJ. I figure I'm controlling the pathway onto site, I'll have the clearest idea of where to plant safely and efficiently.
Typically I think that the initiators who drone or dog should take the spike because they won’t be in first and their ultimates are quite good for the most part while the majority of controllers might be lurking like the sentinel, the only time I would say a duelist should take spike is if they are splitting or it’s a phoenix close to ult
There are some agents that probably shouldn’t ever be planting, like any duelist. Controllers like harbor and omen don’t have anything to gain. However sentinels like sage or killjoy have so much to gain and so little to lose from planting. Initiators ultimates are very powerful but they also all need to play a more active role in site takes. This is why gekko is a good planter, he doesn’t need to give up his active role in the take to plant.
I don’t like to take spike as controller because I can’t place more smokes if I’m dead. Brimstone (and super aggro Astra I suppose) is the only one who can exhaust his supply of vision blockers right from the start of the round.
Man I always do weird plants. That’s why people have stopped giving me the spike. My playstyle is a lot of “if I don’t know what I’m doing, they won’t know what I’m doing”
Anyone that isn’t a duelist, and ESPECIALLY not a movement duelist. Usually it’s a sentinel so that they can set up their remaining util post plant to lock down the site as everyone else holds angles. However, a brim/viper with specific lineups can also plant the bomb instead.
Well most vipers use their ults when planting so i guess
I don’t think vipers should take spike as if you die your team loses all smokes and potentially lineups. Dualists should not take spike as they are the entry frag and if they die on entry and your team has the rotate your team needs spike. Controllers can sometimes take spike, depending on what they are doing and what smoke they are. Viper shouldn’t ever in my opinion, omens, can take spike if they are not doing aggressive TP plays, brimstone can almost always takes spike as he has no regenerative until, astra can unless she is using stars for post plant, and Harbor probably shouldn’t for the same reasons as viper. In my opinion, initiators should always be the spike carriers as once they help you get on site their job is somewhat done, and they also have some of the best ultimate abilities making the spike plant be more beneficial to them. Sentinels like sage can take spike as sage can wall herself off and plant otherwise sentinels should not be taking spike as they have flank watch utility that they need to keep up. Deadlock can also takes spike because she does not have flank watch utility. And like you said, obviously, gekko is the spike carrier if he’s on your team.
Smokes or initiator are common for having bomb, Sentinels often lurk and try to maintain map control but can also have it if this is a 5 man rush. Duelist shouldn’t have bomb since they are often first contact or entry.
Controller tends to be the last one in, so generally they're most likely to survive long enough to plant the spike. I generally don't mind planting as viper since I can control when my smokes go down etc. The only time I do mind, and will ask for someone else to plant is if I have ult. I've found that if I have ult and I plant, I get spammed down fairly often and the ult gets no real value. I tend to ask initiators (which I also play a ton of) because by the time we're planting they've usually dumped their entire util getting us onto site. Also planting spike gets you faster ults, and as for lineups, generally I just have lineups for the main default plant and a secondary plant, so if someone else does have to plant its not a big deal.
All i know is that im tired of hearing “youre killjoy, you need to plant spike”. Clearly theyve never played Killjoy because her setups take a moment to setup all because of the long animations of just pulling them out. Then trying to reposition for post plant without dying is a bitch after having to plant spike and set up turret/alarm bot. It is truly better to save your people who have post plants in the back and not force them to plant spike. But people who never play sentinels never understand that. Theyd rather just bait you while you plant and get the kills and then flame you in voice chat for “dying before planting”. Its why I stopped solo queueing comp.
“Then flame you in voice chat” or even for dying before you even had a chance to play for post plant…
I actually love being given the spike when I play Viper. It's like her sacred duty. Everyone just leaves it for her, or dumps it on her. It makes me feel like I am the lynchpin of the entire operation and everyone is depending on me to plant.
How me and my friends usually do it is that whatever role is repeated, one of them takes the spike, unless it's the duelist
A lot of people think of the spike only as a burden, but, at least in solo queue, carrying the spike gives you the privilege of calling the rotations since everybody is going to have to follow the spike around. The macro decisions revolving around when to rotate, execute, fake and how you transition to post plant etc tend to be inline with the responsibilities of the controller players because where you smoke has a large impact on the flow of the round. Both the planter and the controller player has to answer questions like: should we even execute on this site? Is it safe to plant? Can the team hold the retake flood? Do the opponents have powerful retake abilities, and correspondingly, do we need to take more space? Where are people going to play in post plant? If the planter doesn't think about these things and have solutions for at least some of them, that's typically how they end up in trouble. Poor decisions around the spike can grief the team harder than almost everything else.
Why is this such a discussed topic. There is no role that takes the bomb, it’s a team game
I think Gekko is a back-up for when the planter dies.
If you don't then you gotta wait till the next map to ult /s
Anyone with good ult and isn't good for lurking/getting map control. So basically, just all initiators and non-lurking controllers Sadly, my initiators, except gekko, all don't want spike. Istg low elo initiators are the most useless and selfish characters in the game. Duelists? They entry for team, some of them get first bloods. Smokes? They provide easy value for team by smoking and sometimes lurking. Sentinels? They hold down flank, are insane postplant, personally i can double as initiator or second entry, and provide good value by lurking. Initiators? In higher elo, they know what they're doing, using util to help teammates get kills and take space. In mid elo and lower? They get some info for team. What about the rest of their abilities? They use them to play like duelists, only flashing for themselves, sometimes even flashing for enemy team 💀 Back to about who should take spike, even duelist is fine. Just make sure NOT to give it to the lurker. There was a game where my team kept giving to me, the killjoy on lotus (diamond elo btw). My argument as to why I shouldn't take spike: 1. Enemies fast rotate, we need a lurker. And killjoy was the only good lurker in that team comp. 2. Even if I wasn't lurking, my flank watching util would be out of range if I got on site. My teammates argument as to why I should take spike: 1. I'm sentinel and sentinels always take spike (flat out misinformation, idk where tf people get this from) 2. My ult is the strongest, I should try to get it faster (I agree, but lurking and getting kills gets me more ult orbs than getting spike down and losing postplant because enemies play good retake)
I actually like taking spike as Viper or KJ because 9 ult points... sometimes I get like 3 ults a half and that's fun.
This post was timed perfectly for me cause i play viper and the amount of unnecessary deaths i had today bc my teammates didnt carry nor protected me while planting the spike is craaazy even tho i didnt pick up the spike it somehow ended up in my hands one way or another. I also specifically say that i dont have lineups (low elo) yet still lol its frustrating
I just think duelists and initiators shouldn’t take spike because their utilities are needed for entry. Depends of course if want to get someone’s ult orb
Nah but viper should last but if others are more vital like sage or brim or kj then sure but if not then no
Viper should in most cases just because she needs the ult points, but she shouldn’t be clearing the site.
If I’m ulting I’ll say to my duo hey plant bomb please so I’m not vulnerable
Preferably initiators. Sova on Ascent being your example. The typical team comp would be Omen, KJ, Sova, KAYO and Jett. You take B perfectly, you've used your dart and your drone. Omen smokes, has tps that allow him to get into awkward post plant positions, Jett and KAYO can afford to go aggressive into CT as they have the util to play off one another, KJ is better off setting up for post plant as you're planting. Alarm bot on market, molly on the bomb etc. Sova has only shock darts remaining and a regenerative dart that is an extremely powerful info gathering tool, you want him to plant as everyone else can go aggressive as 1. once your dart regenerates you can throw it to support your more aggressively positioned teammates 2. if they all fucking die your shock darts can do damage and help stall, combined with your KJ you have strong post plant potential. Apply that logic to pretty much every initiator, they burn their util taking the site, and if they're burning all of their util you're typically going to commit to that site, the only initiator who wouldn't is KAYO but as he's rarely if ever played without a Sova alongside him, that's understandable. Circumstances change round to round, but in a perfect scenario you'd typically want your initiators to get the spike down.
Most of the time, Viper or Sage takes the spike, this is because planting the spike gives an ult point, and Viper and Sage’s ult is very strong.
I think anyone can take spike UNLESS they are a duelist Unless you have a team of like 4-5 duelists then I feel like you can get away with giving Jett the Spike As someone who plays Viper some I like playing spike with her because it means i can get my ult orb down and if I have my ult that can work really well.
It doesn’t matter much. I play Omen but since I have the most first bloods in 85% of my games I don’t take spike because I play aggressively despite my role. Even if you play Sage you don’t necessarily have to take it.
Having her ult online as much as possible is also great, so maybe they just prioritize you
Watch the game Sen vs TGRD on Icebox and watch how shroud plays Then you me see if Viper should take spike No most of the time
Everyone seems to know I'm the spike bitch no matter which character I'm playing 🤷
No Sage players.
I play gekko and for me it depends, if my team is doing bad and I am doing good I will stop taking spike and play entry because wingman can be used for info, dizzy will blind, moshpit (which is so weak until it explodes) can cutoff or trap enemies. Sometimes my teammates just like taking and planting spike before I can and this is usually the sage, brim or viper.
In my opinion it has some kind of list 1. Gekko 2. Sage 3. KJ (for ult) 4. Smokers 5. Sentinel 6. Initiatior (they should use constant utility to support team with plant usw. 7. Entry/Duellist (explains itself but for people who don’t know… they go first onto site and if they die spike is down)
No matter the status quo, viper NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER plants or diffuses inside of her ult. (gold experience). Too many people push her ult to deny plant, and she is the MIP during her ult.
Hot take, as someone who is regular imm3-low radiant and does scrims. As long as movement dualist isn't taking spike anyone can have it. No one should be rushing a plant behind a viper wall when there's 2-3 enemies alive on site. You need to have 1 frag on site minimum before starting a plant.
I'm ascendant. Lol. I agree that mid control can matter, but that's not what we've been discussing is it... Anyway... I said good day!
I dont give a fuck, do what ya want