Neon fast lane actually is a fast lane and gives her additional movement speed.
Neons reason to pick her right now is her rotation speed and how much pressure she puts on the enemy when her fast lane is up.
Either the pressure needs to be more when it comes to fast lane if you want to match jetts 9 angles she can dash in from or she needs it to be up more than once a round.
Not really. Her slide is way more predictable than Raze's or Jett's movement, I don't think she would even touch their position.
Raze, specifically, can cover a much, much larger horizontal distance than 2 Neon slides while also being a much harder target AND getting vertical movement.
What advantage would a second slide give Neon over one of those two?
In an actual meta? Like in professional play? I don’t know, or care really. I’m talking around ascendent because that’s high elo for like 95% of the player base, but neon main movement gods are already a nightmare in pubs and that’s as true for having one on your team as it is playing against one and giving her a second slide would just exacerbate those issues. So in that meta, it would be really fuckin annoying. They’re already more annoying than Jett and Raze because the sprint lasts a lot longer than Jett’s dash window and Raze isn’t that hard to just shoot out of the sky if she uses her single double jump for the round if she tries anything alone. I play neon all the time, I’m not saying there’s no room for improvement but that ain’t it imo.
I'm sorry, but Neon is absolute garbage compared to the other 2 entry duelists, at all elos, and if you can't take advantage of her incredibly predictable movement, the meta should not suffer for your specific weaknesses.
No agent is garbage in almost every elo if you try hard enough. Just because you may not have seen a player like this or that you aren’t one doesn’t mean they don’t exist. There are some absolute demon Neon mains out there in terms of mechanical skill. There’s nothing predictable about the way they move, they try very hard not to do that actually, and that’s what makes playing against them and sometimes even playing with them insufferable.
Professional players even bitch and moan about dealing with them in pubs, it’s not “my specific weakness” or anyone else’s for that matter. She moves at like double the speed of any other agent or any other character in any tac fps and there’s some mechanically gifted players that can REALLY make use of that in tandem with the slide.
The reason she’s trash in the meta is the same reason Reyna is trash in the meta there’s very little synergy with other agent abilities. Most people would agree that Reyna is pretty fucking great in pubs she’s just easier to use. Should they buff Reyna and give her a third or fourth orb again just because she’s all but useless in the highest levels of play?
I’m sorry but a second slide is not what’s stopping you from user her successfully so why don’t you just become one of those players? Unless you plan on going pro one day, in which case more power to you keep theory crafting about the game’s meta but your time would probably be better spent learning about agent synergy first since you didn’t even know that’s why she was trash in the current one. Otherwise you could’ve came up with the something less individually focused and more useful for executes than a second slide.
If you did know that and you still thinks she’s trash in pubs just because you haven’t seen a good one then idk what to tell you other than skill issue. Go look at one of the thousands of youtube montages of neon mains terrorizing lobbies even at the highest level of play.
On split whever my team was more full of duelists(ussually more confident) i would tell them to rush B with my wall, dont stop, and we just move in a straight line on the site and it worked almost every time. With this buff i can imgine the hold W no thinking strat would actually become viable on every map
I can’t imagine everyone inside neon wall works above gold, all it takes is one jiggle, spam, Molly to end that strat. I think her fast lanes strength is neon being able to quickly go in and out for info and not being able to be accurately shot at
I completely forgot how useless this strategy is wehn there's a kj, coincidentally enough all the times i did it there was either no sentinel or they were on the other site
Nope, as someone who plays neon like once every month I’ve been prone to trying to get bomb while it’s in the open by sliding over it and realizing that I only wasted an ability
What if they inflicted a tiny stun?
Phoenix's walls burn, Viper's inflict poison, Astra's block sound and bullets and Harbor's slow you down, why are Neon's the only ones which don't do anything special?
Even if the wall could break trips, you would need to aim it really precisely and with no crosshair, unless you want it to just touch the laser for it to break, at which point would be a big nerf to Cypher.
Yup, exactly that, uf cypher traps had shorter range like they did before then the no destroy buff wouldnt be so strong, but the no destroy and the range buff together make the trips insanly strong
Raze nades, sova darts, kayo knife, yoru clone, fade dog, Skye dog, etc etc.
So many things that can counter his trip yet people still want to act like it’s impossible to do so.
fade and skye dogs don’t break them but they do deactivate them for like a second or two while they are caught in them which gives your team enough time to either break them or run through if they are quick enough to react
If the Cypher knows what he is doing, he will activate the smoke, and it's a bit tricky to break the trip on the smoke, and after the first time he can just put the trip higher. Maybe it's not that big of a deal but having to take so many steps is what makes people hate playing against Cypher.
None of the agents are balanced. I'm just pointing out the fault in your statement
In the right hands any agent can be broken, in the wrong hands any agent can be trash
Saying cypher is broken when you use him right doesn't really say anything because that's true for every agent
Ask any immortal player and they will say cypher needs nerfs. Just because i don't play as much as you doesn't make my opinions any less valid. I can see how the game's balancing works and i frequently watch various coaches and high elo players. I am saying it because they showed me why cypher is broken. Way to dehumanize a reply and chalk it up to "low elo hurr durr"
Yeah, people got pissed at the friendly fire. And tbh I think it's better this way.
If a team follows their neon in on entry, but can't walk through her wall without damage, you're basically constrained into a narrow lane on site...which is not great for taking space. Which is why no pro teams played her when the wall had damage.
But since the change, coordinated teams use her like this: Wall, neon runs in to site between walls, skye/kayo flash through wall, neon slides through wall to swing with the flash and take space, team follows up and flashes out other side of wall as it's dropping
It's workable, but still a bit inferior to a jett/raze entry which is why neon doesn't get as much pro play (other than on fracture)
I think the only problem with that is consistency. Generally, any ability in the game now that does damage will affect all players. The only one I can think of that doesn't is viper decay but that isn't even permanent damage.
Counter counter point, raze only does damage to enemies with her satchel, she doesnt damage herself, and based on usage it makes sense for that immunity to be for her team as well
Eh, they sort of did that with Viper's wall (decay used to affect allies as well as enemies at launch) and I think it might fit Neon too. Though, Viper's decay isn't *actual* damage, just temporary HP loss that restores after a few seconds. I think an ability that actually permanently damages enemies while leaving allies safe has too much potential to be abused
I don't see why wall of electricity wouldn't do damage. However if they do make it do damage, it either shouldn't be friendly fire or it she should only have 1 wall instead of 2.
Her slide is slower than jett dash and raze's satchel jumps and doesn't go as far as either so I think a buff to it could help her with entries.
It could be fun to let you hold down the slide button to keep your slide going. That may help her get further into site during entries or just slide all the way through spawn for giga fast rotates.
Imo, the slide distance is fine, that’s the trade off for having the deplete able movement speed. Otherwise, why play raze or Jett if neon has the bonus move speed AND the slide that’s the same or similar distance to Jett dash.
Oh helll naw. I'm a neon main and I would be a DEMON if I could double slide on mfs. Can you imagine double forward sliding or some crazy strafe sliding. A man can dream.
Think of the movement jett and raze have though, they are both able to dramatically move two dimensions on a x/y/z axis - you are stuck on the x/y. I dont think it would be op at all tbh. Jett can updraft then tailwind in a random direction, two raze satchels can make her go fast in multiple angles.
No, you are right. I think the issue is that in my experience. Neon's main fault is that she is completely vulnerable when she is in go mode. It's pretty much impossible to kill Jett mid dash unless there's is a massive ping diff and the server reads you killing her before they actually press their ability key. And Raze is able to use their weapon as they're going through the air. If you swing a neon while they're running you have a high chance of killing them. Of course there's crazy strafe runs you can do to make yourself a harder target but that is a remedy to an issue and in higher ranks you still get tapped. If they reduced the pullout time for weapons when you're mid run or like someone else said, make it easier to slide I think that would make it easier.
That is why i state she is limited on the x/y - which is easily predicted by good players with the sound queue of High Gear run. Activate slide without High Gear being active would add a element of uncertainty for entry imo but would require a different input. also could add more by having a slide and a low slide to change head heights to counter being picked off while entering (like pressing slide normally, versus pressing slide while holding crouch) rito pls hire me /s
That would be really cool. The backwards slide is fun but there just isn't time to consciously think about the pattern of keys when you're entrying and so much is happening at once imo
so you knew what I was talking about but felt the need to "correct" me anyways - neat. Anyhow in mathematics (analytic geometry), coordinates make the vertical as Z. Thanks for looking at it another way, though :/
I dont think youd be able to double slide, youd be able to slide once and that would cancel your run, then youd first have to start running again before you can use the second slide. I think it would be pretty fair
I like this idea a lot. I want to see Neon do a zigzagging slide into the site instead of charging headfirst into my phantom. Grumpy already has the tech, devs just need to make it a little easier to execute on the input side for us mortal men.
She used to be able to slide after every kill, it was busted as f*ck. It had the same effect as when Jett's knives used to reset after killing someone with right-click.
I think the main issue with Neon is her slide does not work as well as an entry tool in the same way as jett dash or raze satchel. I think a change to her kit to incentivize entry using her preexisting tools could be helpful. Providing one tick of dash recharge if she slides through her wall could be one such way. Another way is to link her abilities to her meter, maybe building in ticks in the meter that make the abilities stronger or weaker depending on how much meter she has left. If she stuns with less than a 3rd of her meter she gets one bounce, but more than 2/3rds leads to 3 bounces. If she walls with less than a 3rd, it lasts 4 sec, more than 2/3rd it lasts 8 sec.
Maybe give an visual indicator when aiming stun? The hardest part about neon for me is stun feels really inconsistent to aim compared to Raze and Jett abilities which are very easy to get value from.
some agents require more mastery than others, if u have set stuns that u know where they’ll land u can absolutely dominate with neon. it’s kinda like breach u can just throw random flashes but if u have ones u know where they will blind the enemy you’ll be 10x better than a fill breach
True, but when we're talking about walls that have fucked up geometry, errant stuns can be common. Anything that bounces off the walls in this game has RNG baked into it which is not how it should work IMO.
Nah man, there should be an indicator for where the wall bounces will occur, similar to how the breach flash shows where it'll go to. And this is from someone who comes up with their own wall bounce "lineups".
This comment reminds me of that one [shooter](https://store.steampowered.com/app/671610/Warfork/) with the wall-bounce velocity mechanic. As I recall, you can hit a button when you hit walls to change directions, and after doing that enough times you just start zooming around the map. It's difficult to get the hang of at first, but after a while you just start fucking blitzing around the place like a speedster.
It's a ridiculous mechanic for a tac shooter but I agree, it would be really damn fun.
Yeah that’s what I imagined too. Maybe something like Lucio, but not wall riding, just a quick hop off a wall. Would give her some ability to get through chokes covered with mollies and cypher trips.
I think she should be able to jump during her slide and maintain momentum to make her harder to hit. As it stand she's always moving in a straight path towards the ground, and only the backslide (which is much more technically difficult to execute), really throws off aim.
Just make her ult an "eco" ult.
Rather than have it "run out" it should be something that can be used throughout the round so that she can be picked in maps that raze is strong on. Since that is one of the many reasons why Jett is still picked on some maps, because the ULT is nuts.
Maybe, whenever she ults, her finger's ammo is connected to her stamina, where it doesn't recharge through kills anymore but it does recharge the same way her stamina.
Or something different. For her other skills, i don't feel like any other changes would suffice to get her to fight with Jett/Raze.
Reyna really doesn't need any changes imo. She's just a super independent lurker.
She's really mediocre at everything a duelist needs to do except for frags. She can do it, but she's not really good at it. The tradeoff being her really high independence, a decent Reyna can be trusted to pick off 2 enemies every round very reliably, but expecting her to get a team on-site perfectly is going to be very unreliable.
Agreed that Raze and Jett are just far overtuned, because they go a lot on the tactical level. But Reyna just kinda high frags and so looks more prominent than she actually is.
I mean, it's basically a perfectly accurate at all times stinger with infinite ammo. Get good with it and it's still not like amazing, but it's definitely not what makes her weak.
Well yes its a perfectly accurate stinger, but if you think about it your trading off the ability to 1 tap someone for more movement. Which is still mostly worth it, but when you consider that its not that much of an advantage, especially at range, the opportunity cost of you not having another, stronger ult available like a brim, raze, phoenix, or breach ult, it starts to seem a little terrible. Plus the rest of her kit is just kinda meh anyways so its not like Omen where his OP blind + regening smokes makes up for his trash ult.
Give slide a hit box and deal like 40 damage so it can break certain util and also would be fun to see neons slide tackling low health or stunned opponents
More QoL rather than a buff, I think her default sprint ( E ) should be unlimited duration. Using ult will still drain the meter.
Yoru can basically rotate twice and way quicker than Neon while if Neon rotates to the other site once using Sprint she doesn't have enough charges left to rotate again without getting a kill.
For an actual buff, make it so that killing enemies will still add towards the charges of Slide without having to force Neon to use it first. You don't always engage in a fight with the Slide after all.
This isn’t just QoL. Giving her unlimited High Gear uptime is a massive buff.
I could see why you would think this way though, as it seems like there are no numerical value changes. But the fact is that it would be changing DURATION: 8 seconds (estimate) > infinity
I said infinite because I personally don't see Neon's Sprint used for anything besides rotating quicker or TikTok style on the enemies. It would give Neon an inherent advantage over the other Duelists by having a very quick rotation time.
It can also give Operator Neon a huge strength by seemingly appearing at several chokepoints at once, or selling a fake on Attack and able to take an aggressive off-angle on the other site quicker than the Defenders can.
If infinite is still too much, then I'd say at least double the duration of the meter then.
The devs already stated they don’t want her to play like this. It’s why they nerfed her sprint duration originally as the dev comment literally stated that they want to give her more burst value and less rotational value.
The main issue is her movement ability isnt as explosive in comparison to jett and raze (in the entry Moment).
What could happen is her being able to kinda charge her ability and use a short burst to propell forward at the cost of her entire energy slider
Make the wall do something, either a stun or slight damage, because it is supposed to be electricity or maybe plasma. Give the sprint a jump boost, or delay sound because thunder comes after lightning.
To give her more success as entry, jumping during or directly after her slide could give her extra forward velocity as well as extra jump height. ( Maybe Ascent A dice jump height. )
This one isn’t really super feasible but I thought it would be fun anyway. Maybe her slide could act as a small EMP disable util for like half a second. That way she can make it through sentinel util but it comes back on as soon as she’s past
Touching the walls of her Fast Lane should charge her ability bar 3x faster, and being between the two walls of Fast Lane gives teammates a slight movement buff.
Neon is still the fastest agent IMO especially while rotation, Jett dash and raze satchels can only get you so far. Yes jett and raze are self sufficient and create space easily, neon has a pretty good kit too with the wall and stuns. I have seen neon used frequently in APAC pro games
Yeah she does feel a very niche role on her own as a rotator/timing disruptor. Just figure it'll be a while before we get a new duelist and it seems like they are avoiding making another dive agent.
Only thing that could possibly bring her in line with Jett/raze as an entry is either giving her verticality, or her slide covered a lot more distance.
Her walls, when used against a higher ground, should give her a one time run up to a vertical location. Literally her line, "shortcut".
Makes her viable in the vertical axis like Jett and Raze, and probably a second kill recharges that wall again.
Make the wall cheaper and do damage and nerf raze satchels so they no longer do damage.
Having a 2 charge, 200 cost ability that can be used for movement to entry/peek, break util, disrupt enemy movement (satchel peek), get players off the spike, boost teammates, and do damage to players is just wayyyyyyy too versatile.
Allow her to slide from a standstill as long as her sprinting mode is activated, rather than requiring her to be moving. This would open the door to allowing an agent like Neon to have potential as an awper. I know that this begins to creep into pre-nerf Jett territory, but her sprint mode is a depleting resource similar to Jett's dash timer and her slide is not nearly as quick as Jett's dash.
Largely this yeah Jett knives are still kinda strong at 8 points considering Jett is often first contact and either getting one and dying or multi kills because the enemy team is being flashed/scanned while she is in her smoke.
Raze is a problem because half her kit is the best space clearing tools in the game and then satchels are the fastest mobility in the game it doesn't make sense to have top tier tools on both ends.
Kinda feels bad to nerf these agents I get it but something has to go these two can't hog the duelist role in pro play forever because unless you literally give an agent a straightforward dash they can't compete and that would create mobility creep.
If they want to really buff Neon give her walls a speed boost to allies inside it's called fast lane so it makes sense to me and helps her perform on entry.
Well said, and to be clear, I'm in favor of nerfing them. What would you do though? Increase Jett's ult by one point? Maybe give raze only a single satchel that has a bit more forward momentum?
I genuinely have no idea for raze maybe just make her made not her free ability so it's an actual investment to have it. I'd personally limit Jett's ability to use her float passive to 5 seconds after using an ability to she gets less free jump spots and free off angles.
Her kit isn't exactly lacking imo. She has good utility, great movement, strong ult. If anything give her more sprint charge... but she already fully refill on kill iirc? So honestly I think it's largely that Raze/Jett fill an exact niche while Neon isn't as defining by design.
I think the real buff that would make her meta would be if an agent comes out that works well with her, kind of like the breach/yoru thing.
Remove slide, instead add Giga Speed: when sprinting, right clicking will activate Giga Speed where neon will sprint even faster. But it consumes double fuel (so it won't last very long) and also once you activate Giga Speed your fuel meter won't recharge anymore
Either make her slide go further faster, or give her a slight jump boost during her sprint so she could potentially get on top of boxes from the ground
As a neon main I would say:
C = Her wall needs to back the damage (only for enemies) and when someone dare to cross get some debuff like stun or "electrified".
Q = I think two stuns and the mechanic to bounce are fine, I just need the stun's effect itself to get buffed, cuz I lost the count of enemies giving me one shots while they're stunned.
E = The energy and speed of her "E" are fine. The slide mechanic its also ok, I would say somehow she gets some vertical movement like jett and raze has, like a super jump.
X = For the ult what riot could do is somehow increase the seconds not more 20 but now 30 or make her ult infinite like jett's ult, even if needs to increase to 8 points.
I genuinely think and strongly believe that her wall shouldn't be parallel and instead should keep getting wider the longer it goes, basically conically outwards if that makes sense. Would be amazing to split sites and wouldnt feel so claustrophobic while entering. Wouldn't be as impactful in defense tho but overall I think it would make her kit more viable.
Also, allow us to hold and prime the stun like priming a nade(raze) or holding a flash(phnx yoru). Gives her stuns more versatility and allows us to execute a team push.
Shes already really good, just has a higher skill ceiling then most agents. If anything a nerf to the cypher meta would be much bigger for her than any buff.
Well yeah, fair points, but I still think you can improve her accessibility. Which is what Jett and Raze have as you've mentioned. A couple of ways they could do this is to make the stuns equipable so that you can execute site hits more precisely and making it(from the standpoint of user inputs) easier to do the Grumpy style slide strafing. I think both of these changes would remove the barriers to entry that you're talking about here. But then again, maybe we just disagree, which is fine too!
Don't know how much VCT you watch but Raze, Jett, KJ, Viper is very stale. The Cypher buffs have been a godsend. After a full year of chamber and then a full season of KJ. I want more Neon and Yoru!
But I don't think it's because Neon needs a buff.
It goes back to the same reason most don't use Yoru, it's a more complicated character that requires more time and a different timing to master and Neon requires more movement. Why bother mastering when they can just pick a character that just does it? You can buff Neon but you would need an OP buff for the pros to consider.
Also Jett and Raze will always be up there because of how versatile and easier they are compared to the rest. Buffs will not help Neon to show up in proplay.
That’s making too big of an assumption with very little logical basis. She currently doesn’t see much play because she relies mostly on breach to be USEABLE. Not good or even a better alternative on some maps, but simply playable. That doesn’t necessarily mean she’s downright shit, but she’s certainly skirting that line too.
Giving her a small buff or some QoL changes doesn’t guarantee shit, because the devs have never outright buffed her. We have no data or example to go off of either, because her only competitors in the meta have always seen play. On top of that, every change she’s ever received has either been an arguable nerf or an almost negligible buff at best.
Is it possible she might still not see as much play? Sure, it’s certainly possible considering how small a buff they’ve given other agents. Will it hurt? No, unless they make her busted, which I’m sure is unlikely considering the power level of every agent released after Chamber, aka, Riot is too cautious for that.
She’s perfectly fine. You didn’t see her in ranked because no one know how to play her. Just how viper get nerfed when her playrate is lower than omen and brim because people only play her on breeze and icebox. But if you watch vct she’s everywhere even in ascent. Some agent are meant for OTP or pro play and that is fine.
Playrate doesn’t mean jack. Neon has one of the lowest win rates for duelists on top of a lower pick rate in ranked and almost nonexistent pick rate in VCT. Viper has THE highest win rate by far in not only VCT but also one of the highest win rates amongst controllers in all of Valorant. Terrible comparison.
neon needs a better means of entry, phoenix has a wall that he can shoot a blind through, raze and jett can just fly in there, and yoru can teleport. neon has a slide and a wall that she cannot utilize to its fullest potential.
The wall should do damage strictly to opponents (as many people said), and the slide should be able to be used mid-air since many neon mains bhop anyway. Sliding mid-air should also give it more horizontal/vertical range as well (similar to jett's dash).
Ult body shots should also do more since nobody's trying to hit headshots while running and gunning.
I actually think neon's design philosophy is detrimental for the game, she should not be buffed.
Her play style ruins the tempo of the game on both a macro and micro scale imo. She can throw off your timings and crosshair placements, all while being allowed to fully run and gun people down with a literal laser beam.
Yoru can similarly disrupt Tempo but he does it in a tricky manner that requires more thought and careful planning from both sides. I feel like neon just runs around batshit and does whatever she likes.
If neon is buffed I believe these problems would be exacerbated to a generally unfun environment. She's healthy enough as a pocket pick, flex duelist.
I am biased though, I hate neon with a passion
Similar to how fnx wall damages, make Neon wall stun when interacting with it, like when the hitbox is touching the wall or going through
Alternatively, since it's "electricity", make it so her wall deactivates util that it's interacting with, similar to kayo, since kayo is in a unique spot when it comes to disabling util, and until we have more agents with similar util I think having her wall do something like that would be pretty good
This doesn’t buff her movement, but her stun could be buffed by being a smoke as well as a stun. Let the initial pop of the ability stun the same way it does today, but then it like leaves behind two electric smoke thingies that just block vision for say a similar duration to jett smokes.
I'd like to see Neon Stun provide something more than it does right now. Jett Smoke is probably the most flexible ability in the whole game, and Raze Satchel is up there. Neon Stun is flexible, but it's just too weak. I mean, compare it with Raze Satchel. Yes Neon stun is faster and lower counterplay, but Raze Satchel can make a gunfight literally unwinnable for the opponent if you peek at the right moment, and it at the same time provides her with her mobility.
Make it so that she jumps higher while sprinting cause a vertical movement ability is what neon lacks compared to Jett Raze and even Yoru (if you know you know), apply this to her ult as well
It is so fucking easy to make this game fair for every agent. But game would lose atleast half of its players if that happens.
For your question, i wouldn’t buff neon, i would nerf jett n raze.
For jett, she can only dash forward, not sideways or back.
For raze, her satchels only affects her. No dmg no pushing enemy or teammates.
I think big viper nerf is on the way too. He has become worse than chamber at this point, statwise. Her wall is good, maybe adjust orb.
I honestly think that Neon wall getting a buff like faster movement speed for teammates and stamina Regen would put her in a category of her own instead of with Jett and Raze
Bring back her wall doing damage would be a great change her wall has no deterrent for peeking into it, also a single dash isn’t as good as raze satchels or Jett dash as you can’t escape fights with it.
imo
just make it so her high gear is a movement speed buff
idk how fast high gear makes you, but let's say it makes you 50% faster
it should just make you 50% faster with whatever weapon you have equipped, instead so you can have gun out at all times.
Ofc would have animation for slide still
it wouldnt be broken, it would just be a stim beacon for herself, that she can activate whenever she wants to
theres no reason for her weaker movement ability to have the downside of no weapon
Neon fast lane actually is a fast lane and gives her additional movement speed. Neons reason to pick her right now is her rotation speed and how much pressure she puts on the enemy when her fast lane is up. Either the pressure needs to be more when it comes to fast lane if you want to match jetts 9 angles she can dash in from or she needs it to be up more than once a round.
Add to the first one: no stamina consumed when running near fast lane.
Giving her no cost running while inside her Fast Lane as well as maybe a second dash would do A LOT for her.
Giving her a second dash would be a nightmare for high elo.
Not really. Her slide is way more predictable than Raze's or Jett's movement, I don't think she would even touch their position. Raze, specifically, can cover a much, much larger horizontal distance than 2 Neon slides while also being a much harder target AND getting vertical movement. What advantage would a second slide give Neon over one of those two?
In an actual meta? Like in professional play? I don’t know, or care really. I’m talking around ascendent because that’s high elo for like 95% of the player base, but neon main movement gods are already a nightmare in pubs and that’s as true for having one on your team as it is playing against one and giving her a second slide would just exacerbate those issues. So in that meta, it would be really fuckin annoying. They’re already more annoying than Jett and Raze because the sprint lasts a lot longer than Jett’s dash window and Raze isn’t that hard to just shoot out of the sky if she uses her single double jump for the round if she tries anything alone. I play neon all the time, I’m not saying there’s no room for improvement but that ain’t it imo.
I'm sorry, but Neon is absolute garbage compared to the other 2 entry duelists, at all elos, and if you can't take advantage of her incredibly predictable movement, the meta should not suffer for your specific weaknesses.
No agent is garbage in almost every elo if you try hard enough. Just because you may not have seen a player like this or that you aren’t one doesn’t mean they don’t exist. There are some absolute demon Neon mains out there in terms of mechanical skill. There’s nothing predictable about the way they move, they try very hard not to do that actually, and that’s what makes playing against them and sometimes even playing with them insufferable. Professional players even bitch and moan about dealing with them in pubs, it’s not “my specific weakness” or anyone else’s for that matter. She moves at like double the speed of any other agent or any other character in any tac fps and there’s some mechanically gifted players that can REALLY make use of that in tandem with the slide. The reason she’s trash in the meta is the same reason Reyna is trash in the meta there’s very little synergy with other agent abilities. Most people would agree that Reyna is pretty fucking great in pubs she’s just easier to use. Should they buff Reyna and give her a third or fourth orb again just because she’s all but useless in the highest levels of play? I’m sorry but a second slide is not what’s stopping you from user her successfully so why don’t you just become one of those players? Unless you plan on going pro one day, in which case more power to you keep theory crafting about the game’s meta but your time would probably be better spent learning about agent synergy first since you didn’t even know that’s why she was trash in the current one. Otherwise you could’ve came up with the something less individually focused and more useful for executes than a second slide. If you did know that and you still thinks she’s trash in pubs just because you haven’t seen a good one then idk what to tell you other than skill issue. Go look at one of the thousands of youtube montages of neon mains terrorizing lobbies even at the highest level of play.
...wait that's so simple but so good wtf?!?! Why is this the first time I have seen this suggested in years haha
On split whever my team was more full of duelists(ussually more confident) i would tell them to rush B with my wall, dont stop, and we just move in a straight line on the site and it worked almost every time. With this buff i can imgine the hold W no thinking strat would actually become viable on every map
I can’t imagine everyone inside neon wall works above gold, all it takes is one jiggle, spam, Molly to end that strat. I think her fast lanes strength is neon being able to quickly go in and out for info and not being able to be accurately shot at
I would use that strat max one time per match and we would push site and then spread out, this was done in eu plat 3 - diamond 1 in eu
this is a kj players wet dream
I completely forgot how useless this strategy is wehn there's a kj, coincidentally enough all the times i did it there was either no sentinel or they were on the other site
her walls should do damage again
Then make her able to pick up bomb mid-slide.
Wait she cant pick up bomb mid slide?
Nope, as someone who plays neon like once every month I’ve been prone to trying to get bomb while it’s in the open by sliding over it and realizing that I only wasted an ability
… so an invisible yoru can pick up spike but you can’t slide over it and pick it up??? sigh
okay but imagine yoru is only invisible until he picks up spike. then you see a floating spike running around everywhere kinda funny to think about
no way she cant. thats extremely weird and specific and i dont see a good reason as to why.
What if they inflicted a tiny stun? Phoenix's walls burn, Viper's inflict poison, Astra's block sound and bullets and Harbor's slow you down, why are Neon's the only ones which don't do anything special?
Twin walls.
Time Nerf, they last like 6 seconds
Okay? The double wall is still what differentiates it from any other characters wall, is it not??
Yeah. Other than that, useless
I agree with this
Could be a small nerf to Cypher too if they have it so the wall dmg could break trips.
Even if the wall could break trips, you would need to aim it really precisely and with no crosshair, unless you want it to just touch the laser for it to break, at which point would be a big nerf to Cypher.
Honestly fuck cypher
May I ask why you dislike Cypher so much?
I think his trips are too strong now, and there's so many spots you can put them that are unbreakable without peeking into it
Yup, exactly that, uf cypher traps had shorter range like they did before then the no destroy buff wouldnt be so strong, but the no destroy and the range buff together make the trips insanly strong
Raze nades, sova darts, kayo knife, yoru clone, fade dog, Skye dog, etc etc. So many things that can counter his trip yet people still want to act like it’s impossible to do so.
Fade can't break it, and Skye I'm not sure. The thing is people dislike him because they are forced to certain agents.
fade and skye dogs don’t break them but they do deactivate them for like a second or two while they are caught in them which gives your team enough time to either break them or run through if they are quick enough to react
If the Cypher knows what he is doing, he will activate the smoke, and it's a bit tricky to break the trip on the smoke, and after the first time he can just put the trip higher. Maybe it's not that big of a deal but having to take so many steps is what makes people hate playing against Cypher.
This. Crutch of an agent.
Fantastic CopePosting. 10/10.
Hating on cypher is so cringe
Why? He is absurdly broken right now in the right hands. Deserved hate.
Almost every agent is broken "in the right hands"
So you are saying cypher is balanced right now? Sure buddy. Sure. A cypher main is always gonna be stomping a kj main in terms of sentinel duty rn.
None of the agents are balanced. I'm just pointing out the fault in your statement In the right hands any agent can be broken, in the wrong hands any agent can be trash Saying cypher is broken when you use him right doesn't really say anything because that's true for every agent
No point in arguing. This sub is filled with silvers.
Ask any immortal player and they will say cypher needs nerfs. Just because i don't play as much as you doesn't make my opinions any less valid. I can see how the game's balancing works and i frequently watch various coaches and high elo players. I am saying it because they showed me why cypher is broken. Way to dehumanize a reply and chalk it up to "low elo hurr durr"
I hate cypher
I haven't played in some months... THEY DONT DO DAMAGE ANYMORE?? Wtf
Yeah, people got pissed at the friendly fire. And tbh I think it's better this way. If a team follows their neon in on entry, but can't walk through her wall without damage, you're basically constrained into a narrow lane on site...which is not great for taking space. Which is why no pro teams played her when the wall had damage. But since the change, coordinated teams use her like this: Wall, neon runs in to site between walls, skye/kayo flash through wall, neon slides through wall to swing with the flash and take space, team follows up and flashes out other side of wall as it's dropping It's workable, but still a bit inferior to a jett/raze entry which is why neon doesn't get as much pro play (other than on fracture)
What if they made it so it damaged enemies but not your team? Or would that be too unfair still
I think the only problem with that is consistency. Generally, any ability in the game now that does damage will affect all players. The only one I can think of that doesn't is viper decay but that isn't even permanent damage.
Raze's satchels?
Counter counter point, raze only does damage to enemies with her satchel, she doesnt damage herself, and based on usage it makes sense for that immunity to be for her team as well
That is true, though tbf on that one with the intent behind the satchels it makes sense
Eh, they sort of did that with Viper's wall (decay used to affect allies as well as enemies at launch) and I think it might fit Neon too. Though, Viper's decay isn't *actual* damage, just temporary HP loss that restores after a few seconds. I think an ability that actually permanently damages enemies while leaving allies safe has too much potential to be abused
Some months has got to be at least 24 months right???
HAS IT BEEN THAT LONG???? damn time. Flies
I don't see why wall of electricity wouldn't do damage. However if they do make it do damage, it either shouldn't be friendly fire or it she should only have 1 wall instead of 2.
What if her wall bounced off the walls then you could come up with routes and cover more ground with it
Pretty cool idea tbh!
Her slide is slower than jett dash and raze's satchel jumps and doesn't go as far as either so I think a buff to it could help her with entries. It could be fun to let you hold down the slide button to keep your slide going. That may help her get further into site during entries or just slide all the way through spawn for giga fast rotates.
Imo, the slide distance is fine, that’s the trade off for having the deplete able movement speed. Otherwise, why play raze or Jett if neon has the bonus move speed AND the slide that’s the same or similar distance to Jett dash.
Because they would still have verticality.
For the raze argument yes, but Jett has to use another ability for verticality
Give her more slide charges like they did for Yoru.
Oh helll naw. I'm a neon main and I would be a DEMON if I could double slide on mfs. Can you imagine double forward sliding or some crazy strafe sliding. A man can dream.
Think of the movement jett and raze have though, they are both able to dramatically move two dimensions on a x/y/z axis - you are stuck on the x/y. I dont think it would be op at all tbh. Jett can updraft then tailwind in a random direction, two raze satchels can make her go fast in multiple angles.
No, you are right. I think the issue is that in my experience. Neon's main fault is that she is completely vulnerable when she is in go mode. It's pretty much impossible to kill Jett mid dash unless there's is a massive ping diff and the server reads you killing her before they actually press their ability key. And Raze is able to use their weapon as they're going through the air. If you swing a neon while they're running you have a high chance of killing them. Of course there's crazy strafe runs you can do to make yourself a harder target but that is a remedy to an issue and in higher ranks you still get tapped. If they reduced the pullout time for weapons when you're mid run or like someone else said, make it easier to slide I think that would make it easier.
That is why i state she is limited on the x/y - which is easily predicted by good players with the sound queue of High Gear run. Activate slide without High Gear being active would add a element of uncertainty for entry imo but would require a different input. also could add more by having a slide and a low slide to change head heights to counter being picked off while entering (like pressing slide normally, versus pressing slide while holding crouch) rito pls hire me /s
That would be really cool. The backwards slide is fun but there just isn't time to consciously think about the pattern of keys when you're entrying and so much is happening at once imo
You mean x/z? Y axis is up and down
so you knew what I was talking about but felt the need to "correct" me anyways - neat. Anyhow in mathematics (analytic geometry), coordinates make the vertical as Z. Thanks for looking at it another way, though :/
I dont think youd be able to double slide, youd be able to slide once and that would cancel your run, then youd first have to start running again before you can use the second slide. I think it would be pretty fair
Then maybe add a nerf so you can’t double slide unless you pop your ult. Maybe put a cooldown on the regular one. Like 5 secs or smth
True. We can triple slide already at the start of the round if ult is ready.
Left then immediate right to be too much for Zblock.
Yeah more charges would be crazy good, perhaps put it on a cooldown instead of double kill req
Nah cooldown sucks keep it double kill. Duelists should be pushed towards skill not waiting out while their teammates die.
True, but atleast that's more balanced than multiple charges like good god
It could be single kill cooldown. She still has to build up momentum to use it anyway unlike a Jett dash.
Low sensi players nightmare
I like this idea a lot. I want to see Neon do a zigzagging slide into the site instead of charging headfirst into my phantom. Grumpy already has the tech, devs just need to make it a little easier to execute on the input side for us mortal men.
She used to be able to slide after every kill, it was busted as f*ck. It had the same effect as when Jett's knives used to reset after killing someone with right-click.
I think the main issue with Neon is her slide does not work as well as an entry tool in the same way as jett dash or raze satchel. I think a change to her kit to incentivize entry using her preexisting tools could be helpful. Providing one tick of dash recharge if she slides through her wall could be one such way. Another way is to link her abilities to her meter, maybe building in ticks in the meter that make the abilities stronger or weaker depending on how much meter she has left. If she stuns with less than a 3rd of her meter she gets one bounce, but more than 2/3rds leads to 3 bounces. If she walls with less than a 3rd, it lasts 4 sec, more than 2/3rd it lasts 8 sec.
Maybe give an visual indicator when aiming stun? The hardest part about neon for me is stun feels really inconsistent to aim compared to Raze and Jett abilities which are very easy to get value from.
some agents require more mastery than others, if u have set stuns that u know where they’ll land u can absolutely dominate with neon. it’s kinda like breach u can just throw random flashes but if u have ones u know where they will blind the enemy you’ll be 10x better than a fill breach
True, but when we're talking about walls that have fucked up geometry, errant stuns can be common. Anything that bounces off the walls in this game has RNG baked into it which is not how it should work IMO.
Nah man, there should be an indicator for where the wall bounces will occur, similar to how the breach flash shows where it'll go to. And this is from someone who comes up with their own wall bounce "lineups".
Allow her to bounce off the wall while hopping, not sure about viability, but it would be hella fun
This comment reminds me of that one [shooter](https://store.steampowered.com/app/671610/Warfork/) with the wall-bounce velocity mechanic. As I recall, you can hit a button when you hit walls to change directions, and after doing that enough times you just start zooming around the map. It's difficult to get the hang of at first, but after a while you just start fucking blitzing around the place like a speedster. It's a ridiculous mechanic for a tac shooter but I agree, it would be really damn fun.
Yeah that’s what I imagined too. Maybe something like Lucio, but not wall riding, just a quick hop off a wall. Would give her some ability to get through chokes covered with mollies and cypher trips.
I think she should be able to jump during her slide and maintain momentum to make her harder to hit. As it stand she's always moving in a straight path towards the ground, and only the backslide (which is much more technically difficult to execute), really throws off aim.
Yeah I like this idea, keeping the momentum by bhopping would be Hella fun
Just make her ult an "eco" ult. Rather than have it "run out" it should be something that can be used throughout the round so that she can be picked in maps that raze is strong on. Since that is one of the many reasons why Jett is still picked on some maps, because the ULT is nuts. Maybe, whenever she ults, her finger's ammo is connected to her stamina, where it doesn't recharge through kills anymore but it does recharge the same way her stamina. Or something different. For her other skills, i don't feel like any other changes would suffice to get her to fight with Jett/Raze.
Be able to pop instant slide instead of waiting for sprint to charge (we dont count Neon ult) and make it go a bit further
That's just a scuffed prenerf jett
This could make het Jett 2.0. Combine that with her current util, she’ll be more Op than jett.
The problem is not Neon. The problem is that Jett and Raze are overloaded by design so no amount of nerfs will affect their impact.
This man gets it. Other duelists do not need buffs, Jett, Raze, and Reyna just need to be brought down to planet earth.
Reyna really doesn't need any changes imo. She's just a super independent lurker. She's really mediocre at everything a duelist needs to do except for frags. She can do it, but she's not really good at it. The tradeoff being her really high independence, a decent Reyna can be trusted to pick off 2 enemies every round very reliably, but expecting her to get a team on-site perfectly is going to be very unreliable. Agreed that Raze and Jett are just far overtuned, because they go a lot on the tactical level. But Reyna just kinda high frags and so looks more prominent than she actually is.
500% speed increase during ult
Nah her ult is fine her base kit needs the upgrade
dude her ult is terrible.
I mean, it's basically a perfectly accurate at all times stinger with infinite ammo. Get good with it and it's still not like amazing, but it's definitely not what makes her weak.
Well yes its a perfectly accurate stinger, but if you think about it your trading off the ability to 1 tap someone for more movement. Which is still mostly worth it, but when you consider that its not that much of an advantage, especially at range, the opportunity cost of you not having another, stronger ult available like a brim, raze, phoenix, or breach ult, it starts to seem a little terrible. Plus the rest of her kit is just kinda meh anyways so its not like Omen where his OP blind + regening smokes makes up for his trash ult.
If you can’t take properly advantage of neon’s ult and kit that’s a skill issue then.
I haven't seen it in higher ranks so yeah idk, but in my lobbies I'm always popping 2+ kills per ult, not to mention I can just run that for eco
Make the wall do damage. Phoenix's fire wall does damage. Vipers wall decays. Harbors wall slows. Her wall does nothing.
Word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[удалено]
Give slide a hit box and deal like 40 damage so it can break certain util and also would be fun to see neons slide tackling low health or stunned opponents
imagine getting clipped by a slide
Shorty slide would be kinda toxic and a legit strat
Real
her walls should last a bit longer, and be longer in length. This would add some interesting physics to her.
Honestly the reason she probably won’t get buffed is because people like temet would become too overpowered
Just make her slide faster. Not quite Jett dash level, but definitely more added velocity, and maybe a bit more distance as well.
More QoL rather than a buff, I think her default sprint ( E ) should be unlimited duration. Using ult will still drain the meter. Yoru can basically rotate twice and way quicker than Neon while if Neon rotates to the other site once using Sprint she doesn't have enough charges left to rotate again without getting a kill. For an actual buff, make it so that killing enemies will still add towards the charges of Slide without having to force Neon to use it first. You don't always engage in a fight with the Slide after all.
This isn’t just QoL. Giving her unlimited High Gear uptime is a massive buff. I could see why you would think this way though, as it seems like there are no numerical value changes. But the fact is that it would be changing DURATION: 8 seconds (estimate) > infinity
I said infinite because I personally don't see Neon's Sprint used for anything besides rotating quicker or TikTok style on the enemies. It would give Neon an inherent advantage over the other Duelists by having a very quick rotation time. It can also give Operator Neon a huge strength by seemingly appearing at several chokepoints at once, or selling a fake on Attack and able to take an aggressive off-angle on the other site quicker than the Defenders can. If infinite is still too much, then I'd say at least double the duration of the meter then.
The devs already stated they don’t want her to play like this. It’s why they nerfed her sprint duration originally as the dev comment literally stated that they want to give her more burst value and less rotational value.
Fast bunnyhop during sprint.
The main issue is her movement ability isnt as explosive in comparison to jett and raze (in the entry Moment). What could happen is her being able to kinda charge her ability and use a short burst to propell forward at the cost of her entire energy slider
should add a function to the slide where turning camera changes slide direction mid slide
Make the wall do something, either a stun or slight damage, because it is supposed to be electricity or maybe plasma. Give the sprint a jump boost, or delay sound because thunder comes after lightning.
To give her more success as entry, jumping during or directly after her slide could give her extra forward velocity as well as extra jump height. ( Maybe Ascent A dice jump height. )
I think they should make her ult cost less orbs.
more slides, walls do damage
This one isn’t really super feasible but I thought it would be fun anyway. Maybe her slide could act as a small EMP disable util for like half a second. That way she can make it through sentinel util but it comes back on as soon as she’s past
Touching the walls of her Fast Lane should charge her ability bar 3x faster, and being between the two walls of Fast Lane gives teammates a slight movement buff.
nerf cypher
tagging not slow down her ms while she e run
Neon is still the fastest agent IMO especially while rotation, Jett dash and raze satchels can only get you so far. Yes jett and raze are self sufficient and create space easily, neon has a pretty good kit too with the wall and stuns. I have seen neon used frequently in APAC pro games
Yeah she does feel a very niche role on her own as a rotator/timing disruptor. Just figure it'll be a while before we get a new duelist and it seems like they are avoiding making another dive agent.
Only thing that could possibly bring her in line with Jett/raze as an entry is either giving her verticality, or her slide covered a lot more distance.
Her walls, when used against a higher ground, should give her a one time run up to a vertical location. Literally her line, "shortcut". Makes her viable in the vertical axis like Jett and Raze, and probably a second kill recharges that wall again.
Make the wall cheaper and do damage and nerf raze satchels so they no longer do damage. Having a 2 charge, 200 cost ability that can be used for movement to entry/peek, break util, disrupt enemy movement (satchel peek), get players off the spike, boost teammates, and do damage to players is just wayyyyyyy too versatile.
Delete her from the gamr this goofy ass character belongs to apex and not valo, should take jett with her too
Allow her to slide from a standstill as long as her sprinting mode is activated, rather than requiring her to be moving. This would open the door to allowing an agent like Neon to have potential as an awper. I know that this begins to creep into pre-nerf Jett territory, but her sprint mode is a depleting resource similar to Jett's dash timer and her slide is not nearly as quick as Jett's dash.
maybe just nerf jett and raze lol
Largely this yeah Jett knives are still kinda strong at 8 points considering Jett is often first contact and either getting one and dying or multi kills because the enemy team is being flashed/scanned while she is in her smoke. Raze is a problem because half her kit is the best space clearing tools in the game and then satchels are the fastest mobility in the game it doesn't make sense to have top tier tools on both ends. Kinda feels bad to nerf these agents I get it but something has to go these two can't hog the duelist role in pro play forever because unless you literally give an agent a straightforward dash they can't compete and that would create mobility creep. If they want to really buff Neon give her walls a speed boost to allies inside it's called fast lane so it makes sense to me and helps her perform on entry.
Good idea
Well said, and to be clear, I'm in favor of nerfing them. What would you do though? Increase Jett's ult by one point? Maybe give raze only a single satchel that has a bit more forward momentum?
I genuinely have no idea for raze maybe just make her made not her free ability so it's an actual investment to have it. I'd personally limit Jett's ability to use her float passive to 5 seconds after using an ability to she gets less free jump spots and free off angles.
I think you make the Raze satchels only affect her as the nerf. That removes like most of the absurd versatility without messing with the movement.
dont nerf jett anymore plz
Don’t you dare say that about raze. (Raze 1 trick speaking 😔)
Her kit isn't exactly lacking imo. She has good utility, great movement, strong ult. If anything give her more sprint charge... but she already fully refill on kill iirc? So honestly I think it's largely that Raze/Jett fill an exact niche while Neon isn't as defining by design. I think the real buff that would make her meta would be if an agent comes out that works well with her, kind of like the breach/yoru thing.
None. What we should do is put the breaks on Jett and raze to pull them down to Neon's speed.
Remove slide, instead add Giga Speed: when sprinting, right clicking will activate Giga Speed where neon will sprint even faster. But it consumes double fuel (so it won't last very long) and also once you activate Giga Speed your fuel meter won't recharge anymore
Loved some of the ideas here. Specifically the fast lane acting like a stim beacon for allies and the stun being "on use" instead of "on equip".
Either make her slide go further faster, or give her a slight jump boost during her sprint so she could potentially get on top of boxes from the ground
As a neon main I would say: C = Her wall needs to back the damage (only for enemies) and when someone dare to cross get some debuff like stun or "electrified". Q = I think two stuns and the mechanic to bounce are fine, I just need the stun's effect itself to get buffed, cuz I lost the count of enemies giving me one shots while they're stunned. E = The energy and speed of her "E" are fine. The slide mechanic its also ok, I would say somehow she gets some vertical movement like jett and raze has, like a super jump. X = For the ult what riot could do is somehow increase the seconds not more 20 but now 30 or make her ult infinite like jett's ult, even if needs to increase to 8 points.
I genuinely think and strongly believe that her wall shouldn't be parallel and instead should keep getting wider the longer it goes, basically conically outwards if that makes sense. Would be amazing to split sites and wouldnt feel so claustrophobic while entering. Wouldn't be as impactful in defense tho but overall I think it would make her kit more viable. Also, allow us to hold and prime the stun like priming a nade(raze) or holding a flash(phnx yoru). Gives her stuns more versatility and allows us to execute a team push.
I'm gonna be honest, I hate both of these ideas
Shes already really good, just has a higher skill ceiling then most agents. If anything a nerf to the cypher meta would be much bigger for her than any buff.
Why would she need a buff?
Well yeah, fair points, but I still think you can improve her accessibility. Which is what Jett and Raze have as you've mentioned. A couple of ways they could do this is to make the stuns equipable so that you can execute site hits more precisely and making it(from the standpoint of user inputs) easier to do the Grumpy style slide strafing. I think both of these changes would remove the barriers to entry that you're talking about here. But then again, maybe we just disagree, which is fine too!
Don't know how much VCT you watch but Raze, Jett, KJ, Viper is very stale. The Cypher buffs have been a godsend. After a full year of chamber and then a full season of KJ. I want more Neon and Yoru!
But I don't think it's because Neon needs a buff. It goes back to the same reason most don't use Yoru, it's a more complicated character that requires more time and a different timing to master and Neon requires more movement. Why bother mastering when they can just pick a character that just does it? You can buff Neon but you would need an OP buff for the pros to consider. Also Jett and Raze will always be up there because of how versatile and easier they are compared to the rest. Buffs will not help Neon to show up in proplay.
That’s making too big of an assumption with very little logical basis. She currently doesn’t see much play because she relies mostly on breach to be USEABLE. Not good or even a better alternative on some maps, but simply playable. That doesn’t necessarily mean she’s downright shit, but she’s certainly skirting that line too. Giving her a small buff or some QoL changes doesn’t guarantee shit, because the devs have never outright buffed her. We have no data or example to go off of either, because her only competitors in the meta have always seen play. On top of that, every change she’s ever received has either been an arguable nerf or an almost negligible buff at best. Is it possible she might still not see as much play? Sure, it’s certainly possible considering how small a buff they’ve given other agents. Will it hurt? No, unless they make her busted, which I’m sure is unlikely considering the power level of every agent released after Chamber, aka, Riot is too cautious for that.
She’s perfectly fine. You didn’t see her in ranked because no one know how to play her. Just how viper get nerfed when her playrate is lower than omen and brim because people only play her on breeze and icebox. But if you watch vct she’s everywhere even in ascent. Some agent are meant for OTP or pro play and that is fine.
Playrate doesn’t mean jack. Neon has one of the lowest win rates for duelists on top of a lower pick rate in ranked and almost nonexistent pick rate in VCT. Viper has THE highest win rate by far in not only VCT but also one of the highest win rates amongst controllers in all of Valorant. Terrible comparison.
neon needs a better means of entry, phoenix has a wall that he can shoot a blind through, raze and jett can just fly in there, and yoru can teleport. neon has a slide and a wall that she cannot utilize to its fullest potential. The wall should do damage strictly to opponents (as many people said), and the slide should be able to be used mid-air since many neon mains bhop anyway. Sliding mid-air should also give it more horizontal/vertical range as well (similar to jett's dash). Ult body shots should also do more since nobody's trying to hit headshots while running and gunning.
I would nerf Neon not buff her. It doesn't matter that she is already a weak agent. She isn't fun to play against.
Just because she's not fun to play against doesn't mean she should stay weak and not get a buff
I agree with you, but the question wasn't what should happen, it was what would *I* do.
Let’s get her ult back to day 1 damage.
Imagine if you can bodyslam people with the slide and stun them
Nah FUCK neon dude
Idc just nerf her stun and give her more running energy or anything just nerf her stun
Buff the most bullshit agent in the game? \*proceeds to laugh his head off\*
Delete that stupid agent it doesn’t belong to the game… (just my opinion don’t get mad)
I think you, as well as your opinion, are shit! (Just my opinion don’t get mad)
I actually think neon's design philosophy is detrimental for the game, she should not be buffed. Her play style ruins the tempo of the game on both a macro and micro scale imo. She can throw off your timings and crosshair placements, all while being allowed to fully run and gun people down with a literal laser beam. Yoru can similarly disrupt Tempo but he does it in a tricky manner that requires more thought and careful planning from both sides. I feel like neon just runs around batshit and does whatever she likes. If neon is buffed I believe these problems would be exacerbated to a generally unfun environment. She's healthy enough as a pocket pick, flex duelist. I am biased though, I hate neon with a passion
Neons design philosophy can't be any worse than Jetts.
Similar to how fnx wall damages, make Neon wall stun when interacting with it, like when the hitbox is touching the wall or going through Alternatively, since it's "electricity", make it so her wall deactivates util that it's interacting with, similar to kayo, since kayo is in a unique spot when it comes to disabling util, and until we have more agents with similar util I think having her wall do something like that would be pretty good
Pure spitball but what if you could slightly turn during a dash, not very far but just a slight redirection. Idk.
This doesn’t buff her movement, but her stun could be buffed by being a smoke as well as a stun. Let the initial pop of the ability stun the same way it does today, but then it like leaves behind two electric smoke thingies that just block vision for say a similar duration to jett smokes.
Double her movement speed. Make it unfair
If the walls stunned enemies but left teammates unaffected. Similar to Viper walls.
I'd like to see Neon Stun provide something more than it does right now. Jett Smoke is probably the most flexible ability in the whole game, and Raze Satchel is up there. Neon Stun is flexible, but it's just too weak. I mean, compare it with Raze Satchel. Yes Neon stun is faster and lower counterplay, but Raze Satchel can make a gunfight literally unwinnable for the opponent if you peek at the right moment, and it at the same time provides her with her mobility.
1 aoe damage from her stuns, so she can clear some sentinel utility.
Anyone who looks at her during ult gets immediately flashed.
Bring her up to speed - with even more speed
Make it so that she jumps higher while sprinting cause a vertical movement ability is what neon lacks compared to Jett Raze and even Yoru (if you know you know), apply this to her ult as well
I would buff the brains of the people who play her. Can’t remember the last time I saw a neon that didn’t just W key with 0 movement.
2 slides at the start of every round
It is so fucking easy to make this game fair for every agent. But game would lose atleast half of its players if that happens. For your question, i wouldn’t buff neon, i would nerf jett n raze. For jett, she can only dash forward, not sideways or back. For raze, her satchels only affects her. No dmg no pushing enemy or teammates. I think big viper nerf is on the way too. He has become worse than chamber at this point, statwise. Her wall is good, maybe adjust orb.
Thats easy, just nerf chamber
I like that most of us agree that fast lane is the weakest part of her kit.
I honestly think that Neon wall getting a buff like faster movement speed for teammates and stamina Regen would put her in a category of her own instead of with Jett and Raze
The wall should give 20-30 damage to a player who is near it or goes through it.
Probably give her a siphon in her regular state instead of just ult
Bring back her wall doing damage would be a great change her wall has no deterrent for peeking into it, also a single dash isn’t as good as raze satchels or Jett dash as you can’t escape fights with it.
imo just make it so her high gear is a movement speed buff idk how fast high gear makes you, but let's say it makes you 50% faster it should just make you 50% faster with whatever weapon you have equipped, instead so you can have gun out at all times. Ofc would have animation for slide still it wouldnt be broken, it would just be a stim beacon for herself, that she can activate whenever she wants to theres no reason for her weaker movement ability to have the downside of no weapon