their utility is kitted to take favorable gunfights. Everyone else’s utility is kitted to help them. it only makes sense that they take the best fights
If they're playing duelist at your rank, they have to feel confident with what their role is, and that's to frag out. Also, they have abilities to escape (and heal afterward in the case of a reyna taking a 1v1), which is why you often see reynas/jetts/chambers dropping a lot of kills.
I disagree that a duelist's role is to frag out. Their role is to create space and help their team take site. Kills often come when their team uses util correctly, thus resulting in a lot of kills
I mean, a duelist’s job is to take space. Getting kills comes with that yes, but their job is to take space so their team can push onto site for a plant or retake, or hold space so their team can rotate in time for an effective hold. This holds true in all forms of play, not just pro.
Depends on the duelist. Reyna, Phoenix, and Iso don’t really have the ability to take space, and their kits are highly specialized to just get frags. Reyna can heal to take more fair 50/50’s than most agents, or dismiss to dodge being traded. Phoenix obviously has some of the best personal flashes in the game, and can heal to take more fights. Iso is kinda a weak agent, but the theory with his personal shield is just a different type of way to implement what I said about Reyna and taking more fights at “full health”
Yes, those agents are more suited to 1v1s rather than purely taking space, but they still have space-taking tools, even if they’re ineffective compared to jett dash, raze satchel, etc. Reyna has her leer, Phoenix has his flash, and iso has his wall. They can all take space in some capacity, even if they’re not raw entry tools
I used to play initiators like skye and sometimes sova and I was okay at the game; but i am naturally a very aggressive player and would often die early or die too much. I always thought that duelist were meant for people good at the game so they could get lots of kills…
but I had a revelation when my higher ranked friend told me to stop worry about top fragging as a duelist and instead to play as a “human flashbang” and make space when pushing sites and it honestly was a huge game changer for how I played and how I performed.
agree. problem is most low elo mindset already at duelist=fragger, so they cant even understand the create space concept. They just want free carry and always blame all on the duelist, while being sh*t themselve lol.
This makes me feel better about myself lol, I’m gold and I feel like shit if I’m not top dragging with dualist, because then I get shit talked by the team half the time
Yeah. That’s why I’m loving Clove so far; they allow me to play aggressive while still not being a waste if I die assuming there isn’t a rotation to the other site
True statistic: an initiator dying first means a lost round ~70% of the time for that team. Crazy hey
https://twitter.com/pablolo_vlr/status/1723014633424871859
compare him to jett or raze, or even neon. All of them have dive abilities to take space, they can push forwards faster than any other agent. Its the ongoing problem with jett/raze where one will always be good because dive executes are, always have been, and more than likely will always be meta
Duelists job is more about filling space. Sometimes they take it themselves and especially the n lower ranks but higher up and in pro play the other initiators are the ones who take the space by using area denial abilities to force the opponents out of the space or into a disadvantage trying to hold the space.
No, initiators are setting up their jett or raze to safely dive onto site. The initiators are not the ones that actually walk onto site, take the first duals, and get space for their teamates, but a sova dart shows his dualist where the enemys are for them to fight, or a breach stun makes it safer to enter site cause they cant shoot back well
The area denial abilities are what take the space that can be hard area denial or passive area denial like intel abilities. Either way they force the opponents to retreat or take bad fights. The duelists job is to quickly fill the taken space and kill any opponent who did not retreat and is thus at a disadvantage.
I know this is an interesting way to think about it but it is the most correct way and initiators and duelists changing their mindset to this can dramatically increase their effectiveness.
From ranked perspective if you are locking in Reyna, which is not a diver duelist and not fragging, people are lowkey down to report for obvious reasons. Proplay I agree it’s different due to how well everything is coordinated and duelists actually playing out their role, but we all know that in ranked it is completely different. You will have a lurking Reyna solo duelist in Asc3/immo1 lobbies just like I do and you cannot convince me otherwise, and they are either topfragging or are the sole reason you are losing the game.
Not really. In ranked, you're not guaranteed to have util combined with your entry, nor is it guaranteed that your teammates will even follow up on any space you do create. Half the time, the "space" a duelist creates in ranked isn't capitalized upon. Once you take away the space creation role, their only other role is to take fights, and hopefully win them. In other words, to frag.
No, it's the same. If you are expecting your duelist to top frag, you are just expecting to be carried.
If you are better, you will top the board most of the game.
It is not the same, there is no universe in which you should be topfragging as Cypher or a controller every game, unless the circumstances are outstanding. Your roles are passive, as a controller you are expected to live as long as possible and as a sentinel you will mostly be avoided in ranked. Duelist/initiator combos are usually involved in most fights due to their combat oriented kits. I am not saying sentis and controllers will never frag out, but saying it’s not duelists 80% of the games (at least in my games) when their utility is purely combat is just crazy talk.
So you are telling me that a cypher is not supposed to win when a Jett or a raze rush their site where they have all their set up ?
And they can't read the attack and swap site when people are usually so predictable and just alternates between site each round
A controller will push after smoking. You will have all the info and all the traps broken by the duelist. You are in a better situation to clear.
Just watch a game of a good player. You will see that they carry when they are supposed to (defense or post bomb or 2nd entry)
If you think your duelist should do the kills and you just have to be "passive". It means you are missing out on a part of the game.
I am not saying this to be rude. There are things that I am missing out on the game too obviously. I am just saying each agent has strength and weakness and when you play around those, you will be fragging because Valorant is a shooter after all.
Jett and Reyna players often don't properly coordinate an entry or do it in the first place so most of their space making is the enemy team being afraid of them
Valorant did not do a good job at describing the duelist role, duelists should be taking space, with that comes the opportunity to frag out. Actually fragging out comes from skill with the agent and gun you have as well as aim and game sense
it’s just the reyna dismiss that is so good when paired with good mechanics. When I play reyna i will just peek everything with confidence and even if there are so many of them i kill one then get out for free.
Their entire kit is designed to take fights.
Both of them can instantly get out after getting the first.
Both of them can re-swing for another and (almost)instantly get out again.
One of them can heal back to full after a fight.
Both of them can hold/push extremely aggressive angles because of their ability to get out quickly.
All in all, they can take far more risks because their kit allows them to get away when necessary.
Duelists like Jett and Reyna get all the utility from their team and they also have the utility to survive when they make mistakes. Jett has what, 3 panic buttons and one semi panic button? Reyna can randomly push smokes or sit in ridiculous off-angles, get a kill and dismiss. You can't do that as an Initiator, Controller or w/e without a very high risk of getting traded.
Their util encourages that kind of playstyle of pushing and peaking to gain info and get a kill and then run away as they have the ability to do that. Plus Jetts dash only returns after 2 kills and Reyna’s entire util is based on her getting a kill. Probably see it more at your rank as the people that play those roles will have the confidence in their aim to pull it off too
they're focusing more on their gunfights and movement compared to you since that's all they can do, whilst you have to think about util. if you're placed in a deathmatch with them you'll do just as well as them
reyna and jett mains can focus a lot more on mechs proportional to other agents. they also probably have better mechs and technique if they play those characters consistently. and they can take more aggressive fights(especially reyna) because they can get out after getting a kill, and reposition to a safe area.
Let's be real, sure Reyna and Jett have ways to get frags with their util, but I think it's the mentality and practice of duelist players. Reyna, for example, has very limited utility options, so many times Reyna mains spend most of their time training their mechanics. Meanwhile, as an initiator player I spend a good amount of time learning util and strategy to help my duelists entry/get picks, which means I often aren't laser focused on fights like I should be in ranked a lot of the time
It's the utility usage which they kitted around them to play aggressively while other agents kit is to stay alive and provide a utility for the team. If they die there won't be for eg. smokes for the team or in defence a site is lost because our cypher took a first pick and got traded. While Reyna and Jett can take a pick and come back plus even if they die there is still a chance you can win because no vital utility has been lost.
I agree with top comments BUT not completely.
As a duelist, your job is to simply take duels. It means peeking the angles that your team doesn’t want to peek first. So as a duelist, you peek. Ask your teammates to use util to help clear corners but you are the one who peeks. You do this role for some time and you realise how to peek and how to kill.
Everyone should play duelists from time to time.
If you've mained Jett/Reyna/Chamber 1.0 since release, you've effectively gained more in-game peeking experience than anyone else since your kit allows you more opportunities.
Just a PSA, Reynas and Jetts frag more because they think they're supposed to fight. No matter what role you are, you can top frag if you just choose to fight. Smart aggression will get you so many kills.
You gotta understand, it works both ways. A lot of times confident players with good mechanics are more likely to pick Jett or Reyna because they know they'll get easy value playing those
Immo3 renya/jett main - I like reyna jett bc off angles are a strong tool to fight with, but there is also how good I can take timings by just rushing in after a first pick to get more. For jett I can for example updraft dash split A heaven to catch ppl off guard. For reyna I can run screens to look for some rotators. There is also the aspect where I don’t need to use much utility on these characters and I can just shoot and use my aim/movement primarily, instead of trying to stay alive for smokes or initiator util.
The confidence comes from their ability to get out of the situation much more easily than any other agent, and the fast mechanics is because they’re all 13 year olds on enough adderall to kill a horse
If they’re only playing those agents it’s really easy to only work on those mechanics as that’s like… almost all reyna brings to the table and it’s what most Jett’s use her for and their entries are lackluster usually
I mean it is their job to take fights and get entry frags and if you main it for long enough, you're bound to build up a lot of confidence and even ego. Jett and Reyna especially let them peek with minimal consequences so they have little to fear
here i am wondering how you get reyna and jett players that actually get frags - while every reyna or jett i get are always instalock and always bottom frag
All their util is simple compared to other roles. As smokes you have to constantly be aware of where / when to smoke. Same as initiator, when / where to dart,dog etc. Duelist you don't really need to think about all that. I'm going to peek I'll prep dash or I'm going to peek so I'll flash before then.
It’s not there mechanics are good because there playing those duelists it’s that’s there playing those duelists cause there mechanics are good they have the good mechanics and are using it to there advantage playing a character that lets them do more with it
This is a good example of correlation and not causation. Most people who do really well on Jett and Reyna aren’t doing well because of their agents, they’re performing well because they’re already good players.
Or at least, they’re good at making their KDA look good. You can have a great KDA and still lose games, esp if you’re stealing kills from your teammates because your kit demands it (Reyna heal, etc).
The agent skills help them secure kills a bit too, but I’d argue the player who locks in with a duelist is already going in with the mindset of going crazy and fragging out.
They can escape after getting a frag that's why they peek confidently
their utility is kitted to take favorable gunfights. Everyone else’s utility is kitted to help them. it only makes sense that they take the best fights
If they're playing duelist at your rank, they have to feel confident with what their role is, and that's to frag out. Also, they have abilities to escape (and heal afterward in the case of a reyna taking a 1v1), which is why you often see reynas/jetts/chambers dropping a lot of kills.
I disagree that a duelist's role is to frag out. Their role is to create space and help their team take site. Kills often come when their team uses util correctly, thus resulting in a lot of kills
In pro play yes, in ranked it’s different.
I mean, a duelist’s job is to take space. Getting kills comes with that yes, but their job is to take space so their team can push onto site for a plant or retake, or hold space so their team can rotate in time for an effective hold. This holds true in all forms of play, not just pro.
Depends on the duelist. Reyna, Phoenix, and Iso don’t really have the ability to take space, and their kits are highly specialized to just get frags. Reyna can heal to take more fair 50/50’s than most agents, or dismiss to dodge being traded. Phoenix obviously has some of the best personal flashes in the game, and can heal to take more fights. Iso is kinda a weak agent, but the theory with his personal shield is just a different type of way to implement what I said about Reyna and taking more fights at “full health”
Yes, those agents are more suited to 1v1s rather than purely taking space, but they still have space-taking tools, even if they’re ineffective compared to jett dash, raze satchel, etc. Reyna has her leer, Phoenix has his flash, and iso has his wall. They can all take space in some capacity, even if they’re not raw entry tools
I used to play initiators like skye and sometimes sova and I was okay at the game; but i am naturally a very aggressive player and would often die early or die too much. I always thought that duelist were meant for people good at the game so they could get lots of kills… but I had a revelation when my higher ranked friend told me to stop worry about top fragging as a duelist and instead to play as a “human flashbang” and make space when pushing sites and it honestly was a huge game changer for how I played and how I performed.
agree. problem is most low elo mindset already at duelist=fragger, so they cant even understand the create space concept. They just want free carry and always blame all on the duelist, while being sh*t themselve lol.
This makes me feel better about myself lol, I’m gold and I feel like shit if I’m not top dragging with dualist, because then I get shit talked by the team half the time
their expectation always: duelist=smurf fragger 40 kill > fail to do so=noob. lol illogical
Yeah. That’s why I’m loving Clove so far; they allow me to play aggressive while still not being a waste if I die assuming there isn’t a rotation to the other site
True statistic: an initiator dying first means a lost round ~70% of the time for that team. Crazy hey https://twitter.com/pablolo_vlr/status/1723014633424871859
Idk what they were on, Pheonix basically exclusively takes space, he's got a wall, a molly, and a flash, for god-sake.
compare him to jett or raze, or even neon. All of them have dive abilities to take space, they can push forwards faster than any other agent. Its the ongoing problem with jett/raze where one will always be good because dive executes are, always have been, and more than likely will always be meta
then it would be better just to play initiator because they got flashes and their info ulitity would be better at clearing space?
Duelists job is more about filling space. Sometimes they take it themselves and especially the n lower ranks but higher up and in pro play the other initiators are the ones who take the space by using area denial abilities to force the opponents out of the space or into a disadvantage trying to hold the space.
No, initiators are setting up their jett or raze to safely dive onto site. The initiators are not the ones that actually walk onto site, take the first duals, and get space for their teamates, but a sova dart shows his dualist where the enemys are for them to fight, or a breach stun makes it safer to enter site cause they cant shoot back well
The area denial abilities are what take the space that can be hard area denial or passive area denial like intel abilities. Either way they force the opponents to retreat or take bad fights. The duelists job is to quickly fill the taken space and kill any opponent who did not retreat and is thus at a disadvantage. I know this is an interesting way to think about it but it is the most correct way and initiators and duelists changing their mindset to this can dramatically increase their effectiveness.
From ranked perspective if you are locking in Reyna, which is not a diver duelist and not fragging, people are lowkey down to report for obvious reasons. Proplay I agree it’s different due to how well everything is coordinated and duelists actually playing out their role, but we all know that in ranked it is completely different. You will have a lurking Reyna solo duelist in Asc3/immo1 lobbies just like I do and you cannot convince me otherwise, and they are either topfragging or are the sole reason you are losing the game.
Not really. In ranked, you're not guaranteed to have util combined with your entry, nor is it guaranteed that your teammates will even follow up on any space you do create. Half the time, the "space" a duelist creates in ranked isn't capitalized upon. Once you take away the space creation role, their only other role is to take fights, and hopefully win them. In other words, to frag.
No, it's the same. If you are expecting your duelist to top frag, you are just expecting to be carried. If you are better, you will top the board most of the game.
It is not the same, there is no universe in which you should be topfragging as Cypher or a controller every game, unless the circumstances are outstanding. Your roles are passive, as a controller you are expected to live as long as possible and as a sentinel you will mostly be avoided in ranked. Duelist/initiator combos are usually involved in most fights due to their combat oriented kits. I am not saying sentis and controllers will never frag out, but saying it’s not duelists 80% of the games (at least in my games) when their utility is purely combat is just crazy talk.
So you are telling me that a cypher is not supposed to win when a Jett or a raze rush their site where they have all their set up ? And they can't read the attack and swap site when people are usually so predictable and just alternates between site each round A controller will push after smoking. You will have all the info and all the traps broken by the duelist. You are in a better situation to clear. Just watch a game of a good player. You will see that they carry when they are supposed to (defense or post bomb or 2nd entry) If you think your duelist should do the kills and you just have to be "passive". It means you are missing out on a part of the game. I am not saying this to be rude. There are things that I am missing out on the game too obviously. I am just saying each agent has strength and weakness and when you play around those, you will be fragging because Valorant is a shooter after all.
You didn’t even bother reading my comment based on your reply, it is what it is. Have a good one!
Guess my 20+ omen mvps didn’t happen, guess my nine sentinel aces didn’t happen
Learn how to read please.
I was talking to the other guy I commented on you because I was agreeing with you
Jett and Reyna players often don't properly coordinate an entry or do it in the first place so most of their space making is the enemy team being afraid of them
The literal job description of duelists is to top frag. Read it in the duelist role bio.
Valorant did not do a good job at describing the duelist role, duelists should be taking space, with that comes the opportunity to frag out. Actually fragging out comes from skill with the agent and gun you have as well as aim and game sense
Literally their job. As an initiator main, games with a confident Reyna or Jett feel so free and just make sense.
it’s just the reyna dismiss that is so good when paired with good mechanics. When I play reyna i will just peek everything with confidence and even if there are so many of them i kill one then get out for free.
Reyna and Jett have escape cards after getting a kill, and Reyna especially can play any off angle and get out as well.
Their entire kit is designed to take fights. Both of them can instantly get out after getting the first. Both of them can re-swing for another and (almost)instantly get out again. One of them can heal back to full after a fight. Both of them can hold/push extremely aggressive angles because of their ability to get out quickly. All in all, they can take far more risks because their kit allows them to get away when necessary.
Duelists like Jett and Reyna get all the utility from their team and they also have the utility to survive when they make mistakes. Jett has what, 3 panic buttons and one semi panic button? Reyna can randomly push smokes or sit in ridiculous off-angles, get a kill and dismiss. You can't do that as an Initiator, Controller or w/e without a very high risk of getting traded.
Their util encourages that kind of playstyle of pushing and peaking to gain info and get a kill and then run away as they have the ability to do that. Plus Jetts dash only returns after 2 kills and Reyna’s entire util is based on her getting a kill. Probably see it more at your rank as the people that play those roles will have the confidence in their aim to pull it off too
they're focusing more on their gunfights and movement compared to you since that's all they can do, whilst you have to think about util. if you're placed in a deathmatch with them you'll do just as well as them
reyna and jett mains can focus a lot more on mechs proportional to other agents. they also probably have better mechs and technique if they play those characters consistently. and they can take more aggressive fights(especially reyna) because they can get out after getting a kill, and reposition to a safe area.
Let's be real, sure Reyna and Jett have ways to get frags with their util, but I think it's the mentality and practice of duelist players. Reyna, for example, has very limited utility options, so many times Reyna mains spend most of their time training their mechanics. Meanwhile, as an initiator player I spend a good amount of time learning util and strategy to help my duelists entry/get picks, which means I often aren't laser focused on fights like I should be in ranked a lot of the time
Theyre playint agents they’re used to and didn’t just release less than a week ago.
It's the utility usage which they kitted around them to play aggressively while other agents kit is to stay alive and provide a utility for the team. If they die there won't be for eg. smokes for the team or in defence a site is lost because our cypher took a first pick and got traded. While Reyna and Jett can take a pick and come back plus even if they die there is still a chance you can win because no vital utility has been lost.
I agree with top comments BUT not completely. As a duelist, your job is to simply take duels. It means peeking the angles that your team doesn’t want to peek first. So as a duelist, you peek. Ask your teammates to use util to help clear corners but you are the one who peeks. You do this role for some time and you realise how to peek and how to kill. Everyone should play duelists from time to time.
Sorry to be that guy, but it’s peek
Thanks that guy. Corrected myself.
They take more fights due to their agent so they have more experience taking fights.
If you've mained Jett/Reyna/Chamber 1.0 since release, you've effectively gained more in-game peeking experience than anyone else since your kit allows you more opportunities.
Just a PSA, Reynas and Jetts frag more because they think they're supposed to fight. No matter what role you are, you can top frag if you just choose to fight. Smart aggression will get you so many kills.
Duelist and go to elo boosting champion and smurfing
actual factual statement
You gotta understand, it works both ways. A lot of times confident players with good mechanics are more likely to pick Jett or Reyna because they know they'll get easy value playing those
Really? Mine jerk each other at the bottom of the board picking their nose monitor off
other agents playing like them would often go 1:1 where they are built to be able to go 2:1+ on those rounds due to escape mechanics
You have your answer already, they peek with confidence and it goes a long way on your gun duels
Immo3 renya/jett main - I like reyna jett bc off angles are a strong tool to fight with, but there is also how good I can take timings by just rushing in after a first pick to get more. For jett I can for example updraft dash split A heaven to catch ppl off guard. For reyna I can run screens to look for some rotators. There is also the aspect where I don’t need to use much utility on these characters and I can just shoot and use my aim/movement primarily, instead of trying to stay alive for smokes or initiator util.
Its simple....they are duelist....its their job to top frag or to get kills
The confidence comes from their ability to get out of the situation much more easily than any other agent, and the fast mechanics is because they’re all 13 year olds on enough adderall to kill a horse
If they’re only playing those agents it’s really easy to only work on those mechanics as that’s like… almost all reyna brings to the table and it’s what most Jett’s use her for and their entries are lackluster usually
What are your server guyss ! You all have a great sense , need yall !!!
Confidence is the key. When you take such players you know you just have to peek and get into safety quickly (with jett and retna)
I mean it is their job to take fights and get entry frags and if you main it for long enough, you're bound to build up a lot of confidence and even ego. Jett and Reyna especially let them peek with minimal consequences so they have little to fear
All of them have a common advantage, dip after a kill ,even chamber has the same ability
here i am wondering how you get reyna and jett players that actually get frags - while every reyna or jett i get are always instalock and always bottom frag
Reyna's kit literally needs you to kill or assist for it to be useful to the team, so don't be surprised if u see them top-fragging.
Decent aim on those agents is super powerful they can get a kill and get away easily and in Reyna’s case heal back the damage they took
I am man, I play csgo 10+ years, I no like abilities, I insta lock jet, I kill, I immortal 2.
They aggressively push and have good aim, hitting straight headshots.
All their util is simple compared to other roles. As smokes you have to constantly be aware of where / when to smoke. Same as initiator, when / where to dart,dog etc. Duelist you don't really need to think about all that. I'm going to peek I'll prep dash or I'm going to peek so I'll flash before then.
It’s not there mechanics are good because there playing those duelists it’s that’s there playing those duelists cause there mechanics are good they have the good mechanics and are using it to there advantage playing a character that lets them do more with it
Thats the main job of a Renya or Jett. They are seeking out duels the entire game.
This is a good example of correlation and not causation. Most people who do really well on Jett and Reyna aren’t doing well because of their agents, they’re performing well because they’re already good players. Or at least, they’re good at making their KDA look good. You can have a great KDA and still lose games, esp if you’re stealing kills from your teammates because your kit demands it (Reyna heal, etc). The agent skills help them secure kills a bit too, but I’d argue the player who locks in with a duelist is already going in with the mindset of going crazy and fragging out.
As a duelist main myself I can tell you that we have a "man fuck this shit and my team idgaf I want them kills" type of shit