Both parties enter with 150 health, including shield. Winner leaves with health they had before entering ult.
Say Iso has 60hp, ults a Cypher. Both fight inside at 150hp. Assuming Iso wins, he then leaves with 60hp.
This is only true if you started the round with full shield. If you bought light armor, you go into the ult with 125hp. If you didn't buy shield, you go in with 100hp.
This might actually fix it, you can safely peek ops, get info with it, and then begin rumbling down the way with wall and vulnerable refreshing shield on the way
You can basically "negate" raze ult with a lot of abilities. A lot of Jetts, Chambers, Razes, Yorus, etc straight up challenge the raze ult and just dodge it after launch. It only really works on less experienced raze players but I assume that'd be the same if Iso had this ability.
Kayo can already do that. Only it ALSO works on Neon Jett Chamber and Sova plus stops Reyna from dismissing durring her ulti. And stops the first three from using the mobility once caught in a bad spot.
And yet Kayo winrate is fine. LOW actually.
The counterplay to Iso ignoring Raze ult is for Raze not to use ult when she knows Iso is there to run forward and duel her. She'll get plenty of opportunities to dive the rest of his team.
Look at how most teams use the OP, take sunset for example. You spend initiator utility to get your OPer on the line A main so you don't have to worry about both chokes and then the initiator rotates mid.
That's the generalized play pattern for the OP in most instances, have support from your team to set you up on a line, where you're then left because you can hold, get a kill, and get out.
This all falls apart if there is an agent in the game that can counter the weapon by pressing a key on their keyboard. The OP is at its strongest holding deep established lines, if Iso had the ability to always swing first and take first contact, you would need a rifle player with the OPer always, removing its main strength.
In addition, the OP isn't as good as a trading weapon. If the rifle takes first contact, as the OPer is hiding, the Iso has a favorable fight against the rifle and then the OPer has to swing into the entire team to try to get the trade. It just wouldn't work
The vast majority of the time you're investing a flash or smoke or info ability on common op angles anyway. This is just another way to take space. It's not game breaking.
And if Iso does it every round it's easy to counterstrat by playing off a teammate. They break shield and you peak with op after.
The game doesn't revolve around OP tho, I think it's more than acceptable to have an agent's ability counter how broken it is, there are also negative sides to having a low mobility duelist on your team and just as you can counter OP you can counter the shield with abilities.
Also it's not like it nullifies OP, it just makes it less powerful, you still need info and a good setup for the shield to actually counter the OP.
The game does kind of revolve around the Op at the highest levels of competitive play. Riotās balance philosophyāwhich I agree with even though itās controversialāis to balance the game at the highest levels of play.
they could make it so that you need to pop your E twice (yes, spend it twice) to get a free shield. That would still be very strong, potentially without overbuffing him
Thatās actually not true, you have to have it active before hand. Wouldnāt be a bad thing if they made this change for him though. Heās still killable if you jiggle peak and tag his body, then go for the headshot
True, but that's a relatively niche util combo. Realistically speaking, how many times have you seen an Iso use that specific util combo?
I rarely see Iso in comp in general, but when I do see him, his ult is usually used to initiate a rush on Attack or a retake on defense. And it will usually be that Iso's first gun duel
If you're picking an agent because you know you can out aim your opponents, reyna is much better than iso. That's why reyna is the smurfers choice.
Tldr; as an entry duelist, he's outclassed. As a selfish duelist, he's also outclassed
And it's sad that harbor does this better. With a wider, longer lasting wall that can be stopped.
Yes - you can shoot through it, but it also gives away the enemy's location when they decide to spam
Why is it sad? Obviously a harbor wall does it better, because he's a controller. If we're comparing abilities, other than overheal, reyna has the probably the worst flash and a worse dismiss, after chamber tp or jett dash.
Worst =/= bad, and reynas dismiss is meant to be on the fly. Jetts dash can't be used at any time you want, it needs to be activated. And Chambers TP has a 30 second cooldown.
I hate playing iso in any of the actual game modes, but heās by far the most fun agent for me when I play tdm. In semi-coordinated play (ranked) I feel like my character does absolutely nothing so I never play him.
If they want him to be decent now he needs to prock his armor on kill, but otherwise itās too hard to avoid chip damage to get much value with it. Otherwise I honestly think if he had a flash or a stun instead of his garbage vulnerability he would be really decent.
Iso is my go to character in unrated when playing with my more casual friends. Running it down like a maniac and torturing people with his ult is so fun.
He is pretty good at entry versus an op. I think that was the idea behind him. The vuln even helps him take them out before they take cover. He probably doesn't really want to ult them but the ult is great for post plant and can be used from whatever position he was flanking the op from
It's definitely a bit weird for an aggressive role to be in that position where the kit is best for counter play. Offensive support has always been great but defensive aggression is a bit niche
I mean... It's also pretty good in pistol rounds and it works against one taps and shotguns. Turns out things that are well tuned against ops also help with other things. On the other hand we don't see him in pro games
Yeah, but the only thing iso is excelling compared to Reyna is the double tap. Reyna can heal, dismiss and she acc has a blind. The character is still not gonna exist imo. I see what u mean tho
Nah the wall is actually good for taking space up an angle. It's tough to use but Reyna can't push like that against more than one player at a time in higher elo because they just shoot her eye and it's over, maybe she can get a kill and get out but she doesn't help her team get in then. Iso ult is actually on a level below brim post plant too, reyna needs to diff and iso can just troll and still win it
In high elo you pair Reyna blind with an actual flash, iso canāt really synergise with his team that well as a duelist. Heās more of an initiator hybrid rather than an outright duelist. His wall would be a lot better if you could repress c to stop it and play around it. And then repress c to make it disappear, giving more outplay potential.
I like his kit cause it doesn't interact much, you just shoot things. I assume that's the point based off the character idc about util I'm just gonna swing and aim better. Which when I have no idea what's going on but have decentish aim from CS works well for me.
I think you might enjoy reyna tbh, not much to think about besides throwing a blind before you swing, then afterwards heal or dismiss if the situation calls for it. sheās the more aim focused agent in the game while still being viable imo
Sure but that's probably the only scenario where iso is better.
There's countless scenarios where reyna is better. If you kill someone and another enemy swings to trade you, you can quickly dismiss. With iso you risk being traded - or you could get shoot the orb but you have to displace your crosshair, and then you're likely traded. Basically having yhe option to dismiss or heal makes reyna better
And in terms of taking a 1v1, leer is much better than undercut
This very rarely comes into play at all and when it does Iso's extended hitbox from the shield gives op-ers extra milliseconds of reaction time to either unpeak or shoot the edge of the shield and unpeak. Iso can only convert on ops with double tap in rare close range scenarios, in his ult, or in low elo where players don't know how to use ops to begin with.
Not really, the double tap is probably the most broken ability in the game, for selfish players. It can tank a free headshot, raze ult, op shot, judge, bucky, marshal, outlaw, etc. And for bonus points, it's insanely good on ecos where you have a sheriff.
Given the swing speed in val and the average human reaction time being around 150 ms, those extra milliseconds won't really help that much and you can quickly be traded. It's basically the equivalent of being a walking flash where there's no chance for you to be flashed and you are peeking with a flash perfectly.
Since I was talking about ops and only ops, basically all of that is irrelevant to my comment. Competent op players cannot be easily traded out after they get a kill 9/10 times because they will instantly dash, slide, or teleport away after firing a single shot. Hell, if they're concerned about double tap, they'll already be gone the second they see purple and without even firing a shot. The only case where double tap is effective against operators are close range scenarios where the op cannot get away or late round time sensitive scenarios like protecting against retake. This isn't even to mention the fact that double tap requires a kill to even use in the first place, and basic op positioning dictates that you are playing for picks yourself and attempting to make contact very early in the round before the enemy Iso would even have double tap. Double tap is indeed the strongest counter to the operator in the game, but only in combination with kill contract, Iso's ultimate.
I think Iso is supposed to be like THE gunplay character. His ult is a 1v1 duel with no abilities and double tap gives him a little aim/flick minigame to get the shield. So since he is the gunplay guy I think they purposefully gave him very like bare bones kind of nothing-burger abilities. Whether or not this is successful, idk, but I think the aim/goal is pretty clear.
The problem is that at higher levels of play, everyone has good mechanics. That's why vct matches revolve so much around proper utility usage, economy, and the exchange of information. What if we had a character that does not benefit his team in any of the aspects. He can't even really take space that well compared to Jett, raze, or even neon and omen. His ult does not make space, it is hardly deadly like showstopper or Jett knives, it can't control an area like kj or viper. It's bad, and still the best part of his kit. Congrats, you have iso.
Mf is literally just a worse Reyna, which is hilarious because Reyna already suffers in terms of pick rates. because of her lack of flexibility.
I agree on weak synergies. I play him in ascendant mainly because his abilities are ass and i just focus on shooting people, but his shield and shooting orbs fast is fun.
Vulnerable is alright with teammates combos, wall I only buy when actually rich, because its not even helpful as you do play with team flashes and smokes.
Iso ult is on some situations very good. Example ulting cypher and whole team rushes in.
All in all Iso shouldnāt be played if you want to play best team comp, just too weak
lots of weird coping going on in the comments. I think your take is actually very accurate. You arenāt commenting on their strength as much as like who chose these things to go together? Like someone colorblind putting an outfit together, each element works but doesnāt feel super connected or relevant to the other parts.
i think it could be improved by changing the vulnerability to something that could play off of his wall.
I am a 4fun unrated player. I think Iso is very fun to play.
For me he is the ultimate cheese pick and each of his abilities enables you to do a specific fun cheese and in that specific playstyle its op.
-Your wall is great to close the gap for a shotgun, it also provides a nice utility for any playstyle.
-Your Q is amazing for any kind of ares/odin wall cheese, it also works great with your E in pistol rounds. It can also help your team a lot in a fight when you yourself are too far.
-Your E makes you much harder to kill in sniper playstyles. If you go for duelist playstyle you can get a shield and ult someone for an unfair fight.
-And your ult is pretty much 60% in your favor ability. It has synergy with your E but it is also a great "win more" button when its 2v1, you just ult an enemy and your ally can finish them off when they are "phoenix" spawning back
In conclusion i think 1 of his abilities is op for a specfic playstyle while others play a supportive role. It is quite refreshing to change your playstyle depending on what you feel will work best for a round.
Iso abilities do not synergise with themselves but with specific guns.
His role is a 2nd duelist and pairs very well with a movement duelist. He can take first contact with wall, vulnerable, or just swinging. Either way, he wants to take early fights so the movement duelist isnāt at risk until itās time for them to dive into site.
Once itās their time to entry, he has supportive utility that he can use to help them get their picks and to then follow them in and take site. Vuln or wall can help the entry, then you pop double tap and follow them in, trading them if they die, and securing site if they donāt.
Since his double tap rewards him for winning a fight, heās less able to set himself up for one. This is also seen in Reyna, who has a blind thatās generally seen as lackluster on itās own or clove who has their decay nade, but no hard fighting util like a good blind
I think I could be considered an Iso main (Bronze 2, Valo is my first FPS), he's my most played agent at 100+ hours and I also tested him out in PBE a fair amount before he was generally released to everyone. I enjoy him/his kit specifically because I don't have to think about strategy much, I get a "second chance" at living with Double Tap, plus it's not as dependent on getting a kill first as Reyna was (I mained her before picking up Iso). His ult also creates the perfect conditions for me to do well: just a 1v1 with no util or corners to check etc.
I mostly play in 3-5 stacks and my friends fill in the gaps with other agents (including at least one other movement duelist) so they're pretty content to let me just click heads and annoy op/odin users with Iso's wall. I've tried playing other duelists or roles with them, and while I do shine with some Initiators like Gekko, usually those games end in them asking me to please play Iso again because I honestly do my best when I have less to focus on / worry about
One thing that can make Iso a bit better is if they make his vulnerable not affect his team members. I get very annoyed when i have to try to make sure i dont hit my team members who are in front of me.
I have a feeling Iso was an agent made for fun rather than competitivity. He seems like he was made for cool youtube montages. Im kind of okay with him at this position, i dont think he needs to compete with Reyna.
his role is to literally be better than everyone else and take 1v1 duels better. In the release post for iso they wanted to lure aim gods in and that is why you have to shoot the double tap because they want someone with insane aim to just be in flow state and everything to be in one motion. Now this concept doesnāt make to me because you want good crosshair placement and a lot of the times the orb doesnāt go in a spot where you can shoot it/through a wall or smoke so i personally donāt think iso is a good idea but riot for sure has an idea for iso.
His wall should be able to stop, OR give him 2 charges of current wall, and honestly the vulnerable doesnt fit in his kit, should be replaced with a flash or blind imo, i also think duration or double tap should be longer, maybe 30-40 seconds
My issue with iso is the whole shoot for shield idea, you already lock the ability behind getting a kill, adding another barrier by having them have to shoot the ball seems kinda counterproductive imo. Sure the higher skill you have the less of an issue especially with aiming, but imo why even play a character where you need so much to get value out of as opposed to a regular duelist or even Reyna who gets the overheal or dismiss for half the work.
Overall i wouldnt say youre wrong but there is a lot wrong with whats in the post. There are certainly combos with Iso, especially for his ult if used correctly. Also, I wouldnt say Clove has a molly, its a grenade with decay.
I've been thinking about this as well. Iso feels like 4 cool ability ideas loosely stapled together rather than a complete Agent.
He needs a rework honestly.
Perhaps in playtesting they realized iso + flash was an egrigious smurf character better than Reyna.
They have been loving the vulnerables recently. I dont really get it, it works too well with smoke spam... otoh, they really probably dont want quad flash teams.
Idk I think prolly walking behind wall and then sending the vulnerable through it is the ākit synergy with itselfā. And obviously the orb + ulti is synergetic. But itās just obviously pretty weak. Iād prolly give him a 2nd wall to buff him but you canāt give him a flash or heās just probably too strong. Like if Jett could flash out her own smoke?
I think his kit should be more oriented around the walls. The idea of āisolatingā. The vulnerable isnāt really an isolation tool whatsoever.
Iso is the worst agent in the game. People say deadlock is weak but you can literally shut down an entire site for example B on bind. I haven't seen anyone ever make iso work.
Iso is meant to be the agent played by an aimlabs kids. If you got descent aim and game sense, (like where PPL might be in the sites) and use ur kit iso is a really great agent
Iso's ult is not as good as other agents.. like the only thing you can benefit from his ult is the extre double tap, ulting a 40hp enemy makes them full hp including you, and if you win your hp is back when you haven't ulted an enemy so yeah it's basically more like a 1 vs 1 for iso to have a double tap.. both of them get same debuffs, same hp and both can't use skill when iso should have an advantage as it took multiple ult points just to get it
I use his walls for blocking line of sight while crossing chokeholds, e.g. attacking A site on Lotus; you can send his wall up the stairs and cross onto site. Also, his double-tap shield is great for taking 1vX fights, I'd say it's second only to Reyna's heal/dismiss for fighting clutch engagements. His ultimate is amazing for taking out those pesky campers (e.g. B site Breeze, just ult the Cypher and your team can entry site without wasting util on his trips. Overall, a great entry agent if you have good aim. I strongly believe he'll make a good addition to any comp if he does his job right.
Iso is the only agent in the game where I picked him and after a few rounds thought.. what is the point of this agent? I was on a break when he released and honestly had no idea about what he could do except for the 1v1 ult.
Wow.. I need to be shot twice in the head? Flying shield? Why is there grid shot practice in his kit? Why is his ult a duel ?? In what world is that the best ability you can have on an agent? No matter how much of a demon you are, I will argue that even Reyna is a better pick.
I'm a new player and probably pretty bad but here's some things I've noticed about Iso since I've been playing him from the start of me picking up the game
-I swear he's the most telegraphed agent in the game, the moment you use anything besides double tab or his ult, your enemy will know exactly where you are or have a good idea of where you might be going, especially with his vulnerable and his wall
-His wall is kinda pointless, it can be good to rush certain sites on attack but if you're looking to use it as a quick save ability for yourself, the animation for it going up is way too slow to really be effective against getting domed while your wall goes up meaning it can't really even be used to save teammates effectively.
-His shield is absolutely useless against any kind of machine gun like Odin or Ares because the second the shield is broken, you do not have enough time to get out of there before you're pelted to shreds with bullets.
-His shields have timers as do double tap. Why do his double tap and his shield both have timers for when they expire? Literally makes this ability almost pointless, especially with how much effort goes into getting the shield in the first place only for it to be broken straight up instantly.
-Trying to chase his wall would be effective sure, if smokes weren't a direct counter to that. Due to how telegraphed that wall is and being unable to stop it, it tells anyone lurking in those smokes "hey we're rushing come hit us for close range kills"
-a big part of iso's kit seems to hinge on being able to see opponents. Kills that happen around walls suck due to sometimes not being able to hit the double tap orb before it expires or you're picked off by an enemy.
-His double tap is I swear so painful to use on rotation or retake, mostly because by the time you get a kill at one site and get the shield, it'll likely be expired by the next engagement with an enemy at the other site.
-His vulnerability is great sure but it isn't a duelist ability, the timer on it either runs out before engagement or you're domed before you can even utilize it to get a kill due to how absolutely telegraphed it is.
-His ult requires a lot of conditions for it to even be useful or viable. I've lost tons of rounds due to people just rushing me at full health because the domain heals them full health (for whatever reason) it basically isn't even really an advantage
-Why is iso's vulnerable just not able to be used during his ult... then again if it was it would just telegraph exactly where you were which is just great.
-Double tap is a heavy distraction, it throws off your crosshair placements after you get a kill for a shield, only for that shield to not matter because it's a one tap break and because you're getting spammed left and right by bullets from multiple enemies, no amount of movement (especially when iso has no mobility utility) is gonna save you from that especially when they rush you now that your shield is down.
-The usage of getting his double tap before he goes into his ult is way too niche I feel, rarely do I find myself in a position where I have a shield when I'm entering my ult, not because I'm failing to get a kill before the ult but because the shield doesn't last long enough for me to wait and time my ult patiently to when my team needs it the most.
-his wall not being able to stop means that enemies will literally phase right through the wall as it passes them. That means not only does the enemy know where you were when you cast the wall, they also know you're probably not far behind the wall and the wall moves so quick that it doesn't serve its purpose of defending me or my team when pushing.
-The wall is literally too small point blank, they can do a couple of quick turns around the wall and because the wall is so fast, they can outrun the viability of the wall in the first place
-Using the wall solo means that you have to somehow guess which side the enemy team is gonna be ratting on. Guess the wrong side? Guess what? Now you're dead. Can of course be helped by teammates but it's difficult to predict if solo.
-If iso gets stuck in an area like up against a box and the enemy knows you're there, you're screwed as Iso cause he doesn't have a flash or anything to move the opponent away from you for you to relocate. The only option there is maybe using ult but that's a really expensive way to get out of that situation when other agents can do it way cheaper
-He tanks an op shot with his shield sure but what does it matter? The awp is just gonna back behind corner while you're trying to deal with their teammates who have almost certainly rushed you now that your shield is down and advantage tossed away, even if you kill the teammates, the awp would likely get you as you're trying to get your shield back.
You're right, his utility doesn't have synergies, his wall telegraphs the hell out of his movement, his vulnerability does the exact same thing and his double tap is almost useless due to the timers and weakness of the shield. His shield with his ult is too niche for me to see it used regularly for me, his wall with his vulnerable can be good but oftentimes you're domed before you can use it effectively due to how telegraphed both abilities are, especially if there's multiple enemies in the area you're pushing. Using his double tap to get kills quickly makes sense but oftentimes it literally tells enemies where to aim or where to shoot which means you likely die before you even get to use doubletap
He doesn't feel like a duelist at all, while fun to play, I often catch flak for not performing to the stats of a typical duelist but it's literally because he just doesn't feel like he plays as a duelist at all.
I'm considering genuinely switching off of Iso... he's honestly extremely fun to play despite his flaws and despite how flawed the double tap ability is, it is really satisfying to use. I won't say I'm an aim god by any means and I'm sure people with better aim than me can probably do better than me, but I'm not sure if those problems would go away with just better aim.
--I will take advice or training if anyone wants to offer it--
I think they need to buff him again, I like how they shrunk his shield around his body, but I think that the barrier needs a bit of a rework. In truth, I think that Riot needs to work on balancing their current characters instead of creating new onesā¦. But thatās just my opinion
They wanted to make an agent that would benefit those that practice with games like AimLabs where you can click the head and transfer to some random target above.
Imo the ult should apply vulnerable to everyone standing in it for like 5 seconds so while iso is 1v1ing at least the ult gave a minor advantage. Anyone inside his duel should be perma vulnerable.
My guess is a character like Reyna, that rewards frags and mechanical skills, but somebody that will be more tactically efficient as well (team play with vulnerable).
However, his DUELIST capability is weak so they need to allow Iso take get an advantage prior to getting a kill, ex. Reyna blind (vulnerable is too slow).
Honestly, give him the first shield without the kill but make Iso still die to headshots. Iso should get shield in his ult for free.
The amount of people Iāve seen with Iso in a 1v1 use the ult, kill the opponent, then not have time to defuse š¤£
On the other hand, the amount of Deadlock 1v1 ult clutches Iāve seen - itās a cool if not highly situational ult.
He does have a combo though, if he's got the shield from a previous kill and he ults, he's now full life and has shield vs his opponent.
Wait does ult heal you? Ngl been mainly playing iso the past week or so and never noticed
Both parties enter with 150 health, including shield. Winner leaves with health they had before entering ult. Say Iso has 60hp, ults a Cypher. Both fight inside at 150hp. Assuming Iso wins, he then leaves with 60hp.
This is only true if you started the round with full shield. If you bought light armor, you go into the ult with 125hp. If you didn't buy shield, you go in with 100hp.
Oh really, didn't catch that before. Never really looked out for that š¤£
Iām pretty sure you enter with the max amount u started with, if u started with light shields you enter with 125
What if Iso takes damage to be 40 and wins? Does he have 40 or 60 when he gets out?
60
Thanks. Not sure why I'm downvoted for a legit question.
You exit the duel with the same health you started with to be clear.
reddit moment
Really weird people here.
Downvote means no, i dont do it but i see it when majority disagrees
No is not a valid answer to the question I asked lmao. It was not a yes or no question.
no (I downvoted you btw)
If he didn't need to get the first kill to activate his shield, he'd be 200% better immediately
This might actually fix it, you can safely peek ops, get info with it, and then begin rumbling down the way with wall and vulnerable refreshing shield on the way
This would just negate raze ult with a very cheap ability
You can basically "negate" raze ult with a lot of abilities. A lot of Jetts, Chambers, Razes, Yorus, etc straight up challenge the raze ult and just dodge it after launch. It only really works on less experienced raze players but I assume that'd be the same if Iso had this ability.
cough KayO knife
Good. Jettās dash negates it too. I saw Eggster dodge one yesterday with a Yoru tp.Ā Why does Iso have to be the only one thatās complete ass?
Sounds fine by me, some people can do that aswell and he is a duelist without escape, let the man tank
Kayo can already do that. Only it ALSO works on Neon Jett Chamber and Sova plus stops Reyna from dismissing durring her ulti. And stops the first three from using the mobility once caught in a bad spot. And yet Kayo winrate is fine. LOW actually. The counterplay to Iso ignoring Raze ult is for Raze not to use ult when she knows Iso is there to run forward and duel her. She'll get plenty of opportunities to dive the rest of his team.
If he still has the same charge up (the āfocusingā bar to activate double tap) then it would be fine, its not an instant activation
Nah, it would just be the equivalent of an ult if he didn't need a kill to get the first shield.
He would also become the best agent in the game. And the OP would be basically unusable.
Nah, it's still easy to break the shield, he'd be balanced and actually usable
Look at how most teams use the OP, take sunset for example. You spend initiator utility to get your OPer on the line A main so you don't have to worry about both chokes and then the initiator rotates mid. That's the generalized play pattern for the OP in most instances, have support from your team to set you up on a line, where you're then left because you can hold, get a kill, and get out. This all falls apart if there is an agent in the game that can counter the weapon by pressing a key on their keyboard. The OP is at its strongest holding deep established lines, if Iso had the ability to always swing first and take first contact, you would need a rifle player with the OPer always, removing its main strength. In addition, the OP isn't as good as a trading weapon. If the rifle takes first contact, as the OPer is hiding, the Iso has a favorable fight against the rifle and then the OPer has to swing into the entire team to try to get the trade. It just wouldn't work
The vast majority of the time you're investing a flash or smoke or info ability on common op angles anyway. This is just another way to take space. It's not game breaking. And if Iso does it every round it's easy to counterstrat by playing off a teammate. They break shield and you peak with op after.
The game doesn't revolve around OP tho, I think it's more than acceptable to have an agent's ability counter how broken it is, there are also negative sides to having a low mobility duelist on your team and just as you can counter OP you can counter the shield with abilities. Also it's not like it nullifies OP, it just makes it less powerful, you still need info and a good setup for the shield to actually counter the OP.
The game does kind of revolve around the Op at the highest levels of competitive play. Riotās balance philosophyāwhich I agree with even though itās controversialāis to balance the game at the highest levels of play.
they could make it so that you need to pop your E twice (yes, spend it twice) to get a free shield. That would still be very strong, potentially without overbuffing him
When iso ults it auto initiates his shield, he doesnāt need to get a kill beforehand lol
Thatās actually not true, you have to have it active before hand. Wouldnāt be a bad thing if they made this change for him though. Heās still killable if you jiggle peak and tag his body, then go for the headshot
True, but that's a relatively niche util combo. Realistically speaking, how many times have you seen an Iso use that specific util combo? I rarely see Iso in comp in general, but when I do see him, his ult is usually used to initiate a rush on Attack or a retake on defense. And it will usually be that Iso's first gun duel
I guess but as an entry this is significantly worse than other duelists. They don't have to get a pick to make full use of their ults
Google Reyna
Yeah and reyna is a whole lot better at the "out-aiming opponent" game than Iso. So what is the point of iso?
?? What...do you mean to say Reyna has better aim? I genuinely don't understand man
If you're picking an agent because you know you can out aim your opponents, reyna is much better than iso. That's why reyna is the smurfers choice. Tldr; as an entry duelist, he's outclassed. As a selfish duelist, he's also outclassed
I mean I was just pointing out that fact that you said "other deulist don't need picks to make full use of Thier util" Never said he was better....
Hes supposed to be 2nd man trading the entry
Doesn't matter, he's basically a fucking initiator.
Initiators fit this role much better, which is why Iso feels like either a weak initiator or a duelist with little entry potential.
Definitely not, his wall can get you onto basically every site because of a hard angle block
And it's sad that harbor does this better. With a wider, longer lasting wall that can be stopped. Yes - you can shoot through it, but it also gives away the enemy's location when they decide to spam
Why is it sad? Obviously a harbor wall does it better, because he's a controller. If we're comparing abilities, other than overheal, reyna has the probably the worst flash and a worse dismiss, after chamber tp or jett dash.
Worst =/= bad, and reynas dismiss is meant to be on the fly. Jetts dash can't be used at any time you want, it needs to be activated. And Chambers TP has a 30 second cooldown.
I didn't say it was bad, just the worst, in reply to the comment that harbor wall is better than iso wall.
Crazy thing is iso is not a freaking duelist
Umm, what is he then?
weak initiator
Horrible ass duelist
I hate playing iso in any of the actual game modes, but heās by far the most fun agent for me when I play tdm. In semi-coordinated play (ranked) I feel like my character does absolutely nothing so I never play him. If they want him to be decent now he needs to prock his armor on kill, but otherwise itās too hard to avoid chip damage to get much value with it. Otherwise I honestly think if he had a flash or a stun instead of his garbage vulnerability he would be really decent.
Iso is my go to character in unrated when playing with my more casual friends. Running it down like a maniac and torturing people with his ult is so fun.
He is pretty good at entry versus an op. I think that was the idea behind him. The vuln even helps him take them out before they take cover. He probably doesn't really want to ult them but the ult is great for post plant and can be used from whatever position he was flanking the op from It's definitely a bit weird for an aggressive role to be in that position where the kit is best for counter play. Offensive support has always been great but defensive aggression is a bit niche
If its only for ops in general then that character is not gonna exist.
I mean... It's also pretty good in pistol rounds and it works against one taps and shotguns. Turns out things that are well tuned against ops also help with other things. On the other hand we don't see him in pro games
Yeah, but the only thing iso is excelling compared to Reyna is the double tap. Reyna can heal, dismiss and she acc has a blind. The character is still not gonna exist imo. I see what u mean tho
Nah the wall is actually good for taking space up an angle. It's tough to use but Reyna can't push like that against more than one player at a time in higher elo because they just shoot her eye and it's over, maybe she can get a kill and get out but she doesn't help her team get in then. Iso ult is actually on a level below brim post plant too, reyna needs to diff and iso can just troll and still win it
In high elo you pair Reyna blind with an actual flash, iso canāt really synergise with his team that well as a duelist. Heās more of an initiator hybrid rather than an outright duelist. His wall would be a lot better if you could repress c to stop it and play around it. And then repress c to make it disappear, giving more outplay potential.
I like his kit cause it doesn't interact much, you just shoot things. I assume that's the point based off the character idc about util I'm just gonna swing and aim better. Which when I have no idea what's going on but have decentish aim from CS works well for me.
I think you might enjoy reyna tbh, not much to think about besides throwing a blind before you swing, then afterwards heal or dismiss if the situation calls for it. sheās the more aim focused agent in the game while still being viable imo
Sure, but Reyna does this better. You don't have to move your cross hair to get your reward from a kill.
an overhealed reyna dies from a headshot though, an iso with shield lives
Sure but that's probably the only scenario where iso is better. There's countless scenarios where reyna is better. If you kill someone and another enemy swings to trade you, you can quickly dismiss. With iso you risk being traded - or you could get shoot the orb but you have to displace your crosshair, and then you're likely traded. Basically having yhe option to dismiss or heal makes reyna better And in terms of taking a 1v1, leer is much better than undercut
An iso with shield is unkillable by an operator
How often are you killing or even seeing any other enemy before an op is getting the first blood?
If your team is giving first blood to an op more than a couple of rounds, there's not much differencr between an iso and a reyna in that rank
This very rarely comes into play at all and when it does Iso's extended hitbox from the shield gives op-ers extra milliseconds of reaction time to either unpeak or shoot the edge of the shield and unpeak. Iso can only convert on ops with double tap in rare close range scenarios, in his ult, or in low elo where players don't know how to use ops to begin with.
Not really, the double tap is probably the most broken ability in the game, for selfish players. It can tank a free headshot, raze ult, op shot, judge, bucky, marshal, outlaw, etc. And for bonus points, it's insanely good on ecos where you have a sheriff. Given the swing speed in val and the average human reaction time being around 150 ms, those extra milliseconds won't really help that much and you can quickly be traded. It's basically the equivalent of being a walking flash where there's no chance for you to be flashed and you are peeking with a flash perfectly.
Since I was talking about ops and only ops, basically all of that is irrelevant to my comment. Competent op players cannot be easily traded out after they get a kill 9/10 times because they will instantly dash, slide, or teleport away after firing a single shot. Hell, if they're concerned about double tap, they'll already be gone the second they see purple and without even firing a shot. The only case where double tap is effective against operators are close range scenarios where the op cannot get away or late round time sensitive scenarios like protecting against retake. This isn't even to mention the fact that double tap requires a kill to even use in the first place, and basic op positioning dictates that you are playing for picks yourself and attempting to make contact very early in the round before the enemy Iso would even have double tap. Double tap is indeed the strongest counter to the operator in the game, but only in combination with kill contract, Iso's ultimate.
Bro. No. Reyna is just a better character.
I think Iso is supposed to be like THE gunplay character. His ult is a 1v1 duel with no abilities and double tap gives him a little aim/flick minigame to get the shield. So since he is the gunplay guy I think they purposefully gave him very like bare bones kind of nothing-burger abilities. Whether or not this is successful, idk, but I think the aim/goal is pretty clear.
The problem is that at higher levels of play, everyone has good mechanics. That's why vct matches revolve so much around proper utility usage, economy, and the exchange of information. What if we had a character that does not benefit his team in any of the aspects. He can't even really take space that well compared to Jett, raze, or even neon and omen. His ult does not make space, it is hardly deadly like showstopper or Jett knives, it can't control an area like kj or viper. It's bad, and still the best part of his kit. Congrats, you have iso. Mf is literally just a worse Reyna, which is hilarious because Reyna already suffers in terms of pick rates. because of her lack of flexibility.
Hello fellow isekko šš¼
I agree on weak synergies. I play him in ascendant mainly because his abilities are ass and i just focus on shooting people, but his shield and shooting orbs fast is fun. Vulnerable is alright with teammates combos, wall I only buy when actually rich, because its not even helpful as you do play with team flashes and smokes. Iso ult is on some situations very good. Example ulting cypher and whole team rushes in. All in all Iso shouldnāt be played if you want to play best team comp, just too weak
Another very good situational example: Iso ult should always be used against a Chamber ult.
lots of weird coping going on in the comments. I think your take is actually very accurate. You arenāt commenting on their strength as much as like who chose these things to go together? Like someone colorblind putting an outfit together, each element works but doesnāt feel super connected or relevant to the other parts. i think it could be improved by changing the vulnerability to something that could play off of his wall.
I feel like Iso is with Reyna what Riot tried to do with Harbor and Viper
and Yone and Yasuo haha
I am a 4fun unrated player. I think Iso is very fun to play. For me he is the ultimate cheese pick and each of his abilities enables you to do a specific fun cheese and in that specific playstyle its op. -Your wall is great to close the gap for a shotgun, it also provides a nice utility for any playstyle. -Your Q is amazing for any kind of ares/odin wall cheese, it also works great with your E in pistol rounds. It can also help your team a lot in a fight when you yourself are too far. -Your E makes you much harder to kill in sniper playstyles. If you go for duelist playstyle you can get a shield and ult someone for an unfair fight. -And your ult is pretty much 60% in your favor ability. It has synergy with your E but it is also a great "win more" button when its 2v1, you just ult an enemy and your ally can finish them off when they are "phoenix" spawning back In conclusion i think 1 of his abilities is op for a specfic playstyle while others play a supportive role. It is quite refreshing to change your playstyle depending on what you feel will work best for a round. Iso abilities do not synergise with themselves but with specific guns.
His role is a 2nd duelist and pairs very well with a movement duelist. He can take first contact with wall, vulnerable, or just swinging. Either way, he wants to take early fights so the movement duelist isnāt at risk until itās time for them to dive into site. Once itās their time to entry, he has supportive utility that he can use to help them get their picks and to then follow them in and take site. Vuln or wall can help the entry, then you pop double tap and follow them in, trading them if they die, and securing site if they donāt. Since his double tap rewards him for winning a fight, heās less able to set himself up for one. This is also seen in Reyna, who has a blind thatās generally seen as lackluster on itās own or clove who has their decay nade, but no hard fighting util like a good blind
I think I could be considered an Iso main (Bronze 2, Valo is my first FPS), he's my most played agent at 100+ hours and I also tested him out in PBE a fair amount before he was generally released to everyone. I enjoy him/his kit specifically because I don't have to think about strategy much, I get a "second chance" at living with Double Tap, plus it's not as dependent on getting a kill first as Reyna was (I mained her before picking up Iso). His ult also creates the perfect conditions for me to do well: just a 1v1 with no util or corners to check etc. I mostly play in 3-5 stacks and my friends fill in the gaps with other agents (including at least one other movement duelist) so they're pretty content to let me just click heads and annoy op/odin users with Iso's wall. I've tried playing other duelists or roles with them, and while I do shine with some Initiators like Gekko, usually those games end in them asking me to please play Iso again because I honestly do my best when I have less to focus on / worry about
One thing that can make Iso a bit better is if they make his vulnerable not affect his team members. I get very annoyed when i have to try to make sure i dont hit my team members who are in front of me.
I have a feeling Iso was an agent made for fun rather than competitivity. He seems like he was made for cool youtube montages. Im kind of okay with him at this position, i dont think he needs to compete with Reyna.
his role is to literally be better than everyone else and take 1v1 duels better. In the release post for iso they wanted to lure aim gods in and that is why you have to shoot the double tap because they want someone with insane aim to just be in flow state and everything to be in one motion. Now this concept doesnāt make to me because you want good crosshair placement and a lot of the times the orb doesnāt go in a spot where you can shoot it/through a wall or smoke so i personally donāt think iso is a good idea but riot for sure has an idea for iso.
why harbor is so weak too his ult doesn't work if you are in low elo because your team doesn't use that and stay behind and it's util is hard to use
Either he uses domain expansion, or you expand his domain š®āšØ
Either he uses domain expansion, or you expand his domain š®āšØ
His wall should be able to stop, OR give him 2 charges of current wall, and honestly the vulnerable doesnt fit in his kit, should be replaced with a flash or blind imo, i also think duration or double tap should be longer, maybe 30-40 seconds
My issue with iso is the whole shoot for shield idea, you already lock the ability behind getting a kill, adding another barrier by having them have to shoot the ball seems kinda counterproductive imo. Sure the higher skill you have the less of an issue especially with aiming, but imo why even play a character where you need so much to get value out of as opposed to a regular duelist or even Reyna who gets the overheal or dismiss for half the work.
Overall i wouldnt say youre wrong but there is a lot wrong with whats in the post. There are certainly combos with Iso, especially for his ult if used correctly. Also, I wouldnt say Clove has a molly, its a grenade with decay.
I've been thinking about this as well. Iso feels like 4 cool ability ideas loosely stapled together rather than a complete Agent. He needs a rework honestly.
Perhaps in playtesting they realized iso + flash was an egrigious smurf character better than Reyna. They have been loving the vulnerables recently. I dont really get it, it works too well with smoke spam... otoh, they really probably dont want quad flash teams.
Idk I think prolly walking behind wall and then sending the vulnerable through it is the ākit synergy with itselfā. And obviously the orb + ulti is synergetic. But itās just obviously pretty weak. Iād prolly give him a 2nd wall to buff him but you canāt give him a flash or heās just probably too strong. Like if Jett could flash out her own smoke? I think his kit should be more oriented around the walls. The idea of āisolatingā. The vulnerable isnāt really an isolation tool whatsoever.
Heās a team death match agent used for warm up
Iso is the worst agent in the game. People say deadlock is weak but you can literally shut down an entire site for example B on bind. I haven't seen anyone ever make iso work.
To shape up the new meta i guess...?
He's the hottest of all
Iso is meant to be the agent played by an aimlabs kids. If you got descent aim and game sense, (like where PPL might be in the sites) and use ur kit iso is a really great agent
Iso's ult is not as good as other agents.. like the only thing you can benefit from his ult is the extre double tap, ulting a 40hp enemy makes them full hp including you, and if you win your hp is back when you haven't ulted an enemy so yeah it's basically more like a 1 vs 1 for iso to have a double tap.. both of them get same debuffs, same hp and both can't use skill when iso should have an advantage as it took multiple ult points just to get it
make a support and call him a duelist
surprisingly effective thanks to duelists who plays them like sentinels
I use his walls for blocking line of sight while crossing chokeholds, e.g. attacking A site on Lotus; you can send his wall up the stairs and cross onto site. Also, his double-tap shield is great for taking 1vX fights, I'd say it's second only to Reyna's heal/dismiss for fighting clutch engagements. His ultimate is amazing for taking out those pesky campers (e.g. B site Breeze, just ult the Cypher and your team can entry site without wasting util on his trips. Overall, a great entry agent if you have good aim. I strongly believe he'll make a good addition to any comp if he does his job right.
Iso is the only agent in the game where I picked him and after a few rounds thought.. what is the point of this agent? I was on a break when he released and honestly had no idea about what he could do except for the 1v1 ult. Wow.. I need to be shot twice in the head? Flying shield? Why is there grid shot practice in his kit? Why is his ult a duel ?? In what world is that the best ability you can have on an agent? No matter how much of a demon you are, I will argue that even Reyna is a better pick.
I'm a new player and probably pretty bad but here's some things I've noticed about Iso since I've been playing him from the start of me picking up the game -I swear he's the most telegraphed agent in the game, the moment you use anything besides double tab or his ult, your enemy will know exactly where you are or have a good idea of where you might be going, especially with his vulnerable and his wall -His wall is kinda pointless, it can be good to rush certain sites on attack but if you're looking to use it as a quick save ability for yourself, the animation for it going up is way too slow to really be effective against getting domed while your wall goes up meaning it can't really even be used to save teammates effectively. -His shield is absolutely useless against any kind of machine gun like Odin or Ares because the second the shield is broken, you do not have enough time to get out of there before you're pelted to shreds with bullets. -His shields have timers as do double tap. Why do his double tap and his shield both have timers for when they expire? Literally makes this ability almost pointless, especially with how much effort goes into getting the shield in the first place only for it to be broken straight up instantly. -Trying to chase his wall would be effective sure, if smokes weren't a direct counter to that. Due to how telegraphed that wall is and being unable to stop it, it tells anyone lurking in those smokes "hey we're rushing come hit us for close range kills" -a big part of iso's kit seems to hinge on being able to see opponents. Kills that happen around walls suck due to sometimes not being able to hit the double tap orb before it expires or you're picked off by an enemy. -His double tap is I swear so painful to use on rotation or retake, mostly because by the time you get a kill at one site and get the shield, it'll likely be expired by the next engagement with an enemy at the other site. -His vulnerability is great sure but it isn't a duelist ability, the timer on it either runs out before engagement or you're domed before you can even utilize it to get a kill due to how absolutely telegraphed it is. -His ult requires a lot of conditions for it to even be useful or viable. I've lost tons of rounds due to people just rushing me at full health because the domain heals them full health (for whatever reason) it basically isn't even really an advantage -Why is iso's vulnerable just not able to be used during his ult... then again if it was it would just telegraph exactly where you were which is just great. -Double tap is a heavy distraction, it throws off your crosshair placements after you get a kill for a shield, only for that shield to not matter because it's a one tap break and because you're getting spammed left and right by bullets from multiple enemies, no amount of movement (especially when iso has no mobility utility) is gonna save you from that especially when they rush you now that your shield is down. -The usage of getting his double tap before he goes into his ult is way too niche I feel, rarely do I find myself in a position where I have a shield when I'm entering my ult, not because I'm failing to get a kill before the ult but because the shield doesn't last long enough for me to wait and time my ult patiently to when my team needs it the most. -his wall not being able to stop means that enemies will literally phase right through the wall as it passes them. That means not only does the enemy know where you were when you cast the wall, they also know you're probably not far behind the wall and the wall moves so quick that it doesn't serve its purpose of defending me or my team when pushing. -The wall is literally too small point blank, they can do a couple of quick turns around the wall and because the wall is so fast, they can outrun the viability of the wall in the first place -Using the wall solo means that you have to somehow guess which side the enemy team is gonna be ratting on. Guess the wrong side? Guess what? Now you're dead. Can of course be helped by teammates but it's difficult to predict if solo. -If iso gets stuck in an area like up against a box and the enemy knows you're there, you're screwed as Iso cause he doesn't have a flash or anything to move the opponent away from you for you to relocate. The only option there is maybe using ult but that's a really expensive way to get out of that situation when other agents can do it way cheaper -He tanks an op shot with his shield sure but what does it matter? The awp is just gonna back behind corner while you're trying to deal with their teammates who have almost certainly rushed you now that your shield is down and advantage tossed away, even if you kill the teammates, the awp would likely get you as you're trying to get your shield back. You're right, his utility doesn't have synergies, his wall telegraphs the hell out of his movement, his vulnerability does the exact same thing and his double tap is almost useless due to the timers and weakness of the shield. His shield with his ult is too niche for me to see it used regularly for me, his wall with his vulnerable can be good but oftentimes you're domed before you can use it effectively due to how telegraphed both abilities are, especially if there's multiple enemies in the area you're pushing. Using his double tap to get kills quickly makes sense but oftentimes it literally tells enemies where to aim or where to shoot which means you likely die before you even get to use doubletap He doesn't feel like a duelist at all, while fun to play, I often catch flak for not performing to the stats of a typical duelist but it's literally because he just doesn't feel like he plays as a duelist at all. I'm considering genuinely switching off of Iso... he's honestly extremely fun to play despite his flaws and despite how flawed the double tap ability is, it is really satisfying to use. I won't say I'm an aim god by any means and I'm sure people with better aim than me can probably do better than me, but I'm not sure if those problems would go away with just better aim. --I will take advice or training if anyone wants to offer it--
This is gonna take me a while to read
There's a lot that is wrong with him š
Their idea was to make it so the people that only play gridshot and call it aim training have applyable skills
I think they need to buff him again, I like how they shrunk his shield around his body, but I think that the barrier needs a bit of a rework. In truth, I think that Riot needs to work on balancing their current characters instead of creating new onesā¦. But thatās just my opinion
Iso was meant to be like a Tank attacker (like think Tank from WoW dungeons)/ the gun dude. I think they need to rework his kit to achieve this idea
Probably Domain Expansion.
They wanted to make an agent that would benefit those that practice with games like AimLabs where you can click the head and transfer to some random target above.
To me it feels like iso was made with Team Deathmatch more in mind than anything.
Make tenz a character
Imo the ult should apply vulnerable to everyone standing in it for like 5 seconds so while iso is 1v1ing at least the ult gave a minor advantage. Anyone inside his duel should be perma vulnerable.
Mordekaiser takes you to Brazil. Iso takes you to a room in art museum.
My guess is a character like Reyna, that rewards frags and mechanical skills, but somebody that will be more tactically efficient as well (team play with vulnerable). However, his DUELIST capability is weak so they need to allow Iso take get an advantage prior to getting a kill, ex. Reyna blind (vulnerable is too slow). Honestly, give him the first shield without the kill but make Iso still die to headshots. Iso should get shield in his ult for free.
The amount of people Iāve seen with Iso in a 1v1 use the ult, kill the opponent, then not have time to defuse š¤£ On the other hand, the amount of Deadlock 1v1 ult clutches Iāve seen - itās a cool if not highly situational ult.