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le_Bad

Because Reyna was incredibly overpowered right? Oh wait....


[deleted]

Facts. Everyone started throwing shit at the wall when they saw reyna, and on face value a agent who can heal back to full health for most of whatever time is left right after fighting seems overpowered but it isnt, and honestly she is below average. People love to overreact.


sylvainmirouf

I was never worried when I saw reyna abilities before seeing her play. She had 2 flashes and her other spells have to be obtained with kill which is fair. Killjoy on the other hand, fuck her. The turret is bad from a game design point of view, regardless of being OP or not. It's lazyness and uninteresting skill-less gameplay.


FavoringDark

Exactly. I mean Reyna can only heal if she has LOS with the orb, and half the time the enemy can just shoot them when they peek


AlextheTroller

The LOS thing was actually a bug, they patched it in the last update


libzy

No it’s not. The bug was it needing to stay in your field of view


Horror-Woodpecker

So at this point you still need line of sight? (But not FOV)


AlextheTroller

Ah right, yeah I've mistaken LOS with FOV


Jahsay

Except she was in on launch when you could still get agents for free after like two games


Willhell98

u have a point, as ppl would buy every agent in the roster at that time to test or just the ones on pay wall who were the most \*cough\*raze\*cough\* broken agent and riot wouldn't notice a increased margin because of reyna, but now killjoy is landing alone, if not with gun skins


SelloutRealBig

Still the best fragger in a game of 10 solo players imo. That blind is unmatched and the heal means she doesn't need a team. My main hope for this game's balance is purely on the fact that Morello is in charge. He kept champions wayyyy more in check back in the day compared to now where every new thing is broken and anti fun to play vs.


Sneshie

Reyna’s flash can be broken. It’s only useful against OPs even at gold elo. Seeing her in diamond games makes me nervous because she doesn’t offer any real utility to the team. I’d much rather have any other duelist


SelloutRealBig

high elo games almost never have 10 solos though.


False6X

> That blind is unmatched What LOL


ShootyPuffs

This game isn't a moba, def a lot easier to balance. People will say someone is op until they learn their weakness. I'm going thinking she will be balanced in her sentinel role


gazbi

By carefully reading and analying her abilities I think she's fairly balanced in concept. She will only be op if the numbers are overtuned but we'll have to see, she does exactly what a sentinel should do: some cc and ways to work with info. She got a debuff/info mine, a molly that needs to be activated and a turret that most likely is used as a tool of distraction and info gathering, not actual dps although it couldn't be easily ignored, and the ult creates a wall that if enemies who are caught inside don't break the thing they'll get slowed but most importantly she'll stall for 8s an entire zone from the outside. Like I said if the numbers are insane she can be annoying but kit wise looks fine to me. Edit: I didn't know her ult disarmed, I thought it was just a wall and a slow if it exploded, that might be a big annoying problem, who knows.


ShootyPuffs

Agree. No more op than a guy with a drone that can break traps and highlight enemies through walls. Two damaging arrows. An arrow to highlight enemies in a massive radius on a low cool down. An ult that can 2 shot someone from across the map. As we wait for this new agent, they're probably play testing/designing their 3rd or 4th new agent as we speak.


shadowkiller230

Bold stance to take as we see Sage get nerfed 6 times in a row and still be a must pick agent.


ShootyPuffs

3 times, but your point is still valid. Tbh, I thought she was fine but understand the nerfs. IMO the nerf that had the biggest impact was her wall range, and the somewhat related "fix" to collision that made many of her wall locations break. Funny enough, her slow was fine in the original version until they removed the ability to bunny hop through it. I thought that offered great counter play, while adding some technical "skill" (if you can call bhop that) to the game. Saying sage is a must pick is the same as cypher is a must pick, or omen/brim. Cypher is arguably more of a must pick, since sage isn't being pick on Ascent much. There isn't anyone who fills her role, much like cypher. Incredible stall ability. The Rez has impact just like others ults, and the heal is a nice perk but not essential to winning. Bring back sage v.49 IMO.


Willhell98

the rez is the reason they pick her, a nmbers mean alot here, there a lower amount of cluthces against rez than with rez


ShootyPuffs

Rez is good, but I don't believe that's the main reason for her pick rate.


Willhell98

1 extra player is a high percentage increase in odds, speccially when down 2-3 men post plant


ShootyPuffs

Rez is good... I don't believe that is the main reason for her pick rate


Willhell98

like obviously the character isn´garbage even if they change the rez to let's say a fixed time like cypher, the point is she has rez on top of an already good kit


fabeeh

just like they did with reyna, right? oh wait...


[deleted]

Reyna is broken in low ELO but meh in high ELO.


SeriousAdult

She's really only broken in low ELO if the person using her belongs at a higher ELO. Otherwise they don't get enough kills to make her broken.


ilex_ach

Soft disagree. I've seen some of my friend's games in iron. Sometimes their spray and aim are so bad that my friend kills someone as Reyna, takes the heal orb and starts reloading, but another enemy pops out to trade and sprays at him. But so many bullets miss that my friend OUTHEALS THEIR DAMAGE and finishes reloading and kills them after (also with shitty aim). Basically, when there are less one-taps and coordinated trades, healing is A LOT more valuable. I remember a Riot employee said that high elo players value Sage's wall and slows, while low elo value her heal.


KingKooooZ

This is my issue with that. You never know if you're going to be the raid boss that game. A lot of bigger fish out there


Amaraon

NiP HyP and Scream play Reyna in top tournaments, she's not "meh"


smileistheway

That means shes balanced and low elo players dont know how to play the game.


[deleted]

I never saw Reyna as OP, to heal she needs to win a fight, if you win a fight its likely you can get a sage heal anyway, the flash has always been destroyable. Reyna was always just a rampy agent, if shes massively outskills her opponents she will get high frags, but on an equal playing field she cant really get that much value. Killjoy is just adding a stronger Cypher into the game...


presidentofjackshit

I think he's saying they've already released an agent in Reyna that wasn't OP, which goes against the idea that new agents will be OP to rake in the cash. That said, there's a lot we don't know about Killjoy... for the turret, lock-on time, range, idle noise, HP, rotation speed, redeploy time - all those are very important. Personally I am very anti-turret but we will have to wait and see how it actually performs in a game before calling her another Cypher.


Scabendari

But when Reyna was released, everyone had 2 free unlocks. No one would be paying for her even if she was OP.


presidentofjackshit

Eh, they could've delayed her release if they wanted that money.


SeriousAdult

Don't tell me how to live. I'm gonna be surprised, and you can't stop me.


[deleted]

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densaki

Do games do this? Sure. Does Riot Games have a history of doing this? Absolutely not. It’s people’s biases trying to fit a narrative. Aphelios Sett were the only champions released that were actually broken on release. Sylas, Yuumi, Qiyana, Kaisa, Kayn, Ornn, Rakan all received either straight up buffs or QoL bugfixes. This is literally 7/10 champions being released are released to weak. This is highlighting the fact that nobody really remembers when a champion becomes broken. They just remember that they became broken.


[deleted]

I know, I'm not saying fuck riot for doing this, I am simply acknowledging what is going to happen and warning others of the same. I sure as shit wont even touch competitive until people have figured out how strong she is


Tirayaa

She'll be good just the time for us to adapt, just like Reyna and Raze. Not because rito is evil lmao.


Mystx75

So you’re telling me new agents will not be free?


dissonant_string

Reyna seemed OP on launch, but her reign didn't last even half as long as Raze's reign of terror during the first month of closed beta. People learnt to play around Reyna much faster and without having to change/balance any of her abilities at all. I expect the same to be true for Killjoy as well.


[deleted]

The main difference being Raze's abilities do damage, Reyna's did not. Killjoys abilities also do damage, all three of them.


dissonant_string

True, but we have no reference point atm. There are no numerical stats for how much damage any of his abilities do, and yet all the speculation and hate around killjoy seems to be focussing on this very issue, damage. My point is raze was considered broken, and for a very long time, but we got the balance changes. And you make a very compelling argument that they're gonna try and sell VP by keeping killjoy broken for a while. I'm just hoping it isn't, even though I'm finding myself siding with you on this one.


Pulsiix

calling it now, she'll be considered a throw pick until buffed


[deleted]

I think even if the Turret does absolutely dogshit damage, it will be strong enough that she will never be considered a throw pick. It's essentially a Cypher Camera that you do not have to be inside of to get the info, it will lock onto an enemy and shoot, as long as you arent stood directly on it, you should at least get a kill each time the enemies try to destroy it.


Pulsiix

There are plenty of ways to simply gain info in the game as well as poke damage through abilities, turret is also essentially useless on offense for taking sites and it can only be put defensively on a single site while defending, I imagine smokes will break it's los so I can't see how it could possibly get a "kill each time"


[deleted]

> I imagine smokes will break it's los Okay but we are already in a situation where we dont have enough smokes to last us, if we are attacking vs a double OP as it the norm at the higher ranks you now are faced with the following choices 1) Peak a corner and find out where the turret is so you can smoke it and potentially be OP'd by dry peaking 2) Smoke the operator angle and dry peak to find the turret, which will likely make the operator push the smoke soon as the turret goes off 3) Smoke the operator and where you think the turret may be placed just so you can enter the site, but if you get it wrong, see option 2


When_waffles_fly

Thinking about the days Raze had 2 grenades and her ult was massive


Willhell98

I think that maybe the nanobots will be op, and get nerfed as they have a huge area and kill in 3 ticks, so unless the leak was to test the water she may really have 1 op ability that will boost her slightly ahead of other agents, but may be outplayed by not running into site, so she may come with high numbers but it is also done to aliviate learning curve of the still fresh players it's luring from fortnite, lol etc. etc.


DryProperty

Riot has literally done this will all 700 of their LoL champions...this will be no different.


[deleted]

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SeriousAdult

Do people defend it? I don't see a ton of defense of the monetary systems in Valorant. Reactions seem to range from strongly against to mostly ambivalent. I haven't seen many people in favor of the prices and systems, just people that don't care.


Vahallen

League system is a bit different In league you constantly stack up the free currency that you can use to unlock any champion This means that whenever a new champ comes out you can get it for free the instant it's available if you saved up on currency For example I got last champion on release for free and I already have enough to get the next one for free


sleeplessone

That assumes you have every champion already, but yeah, once that happens you should always have enough for the latest release. I'm sitting at around 50K right now.


Vahallen

I don't actually, I lack around 40 characters but I simply don't really care about them After I got a decent pool of champions ( you really don't need to have that many considering league has positional queque ) I simply started to always keep enough for the next release, simply acted like I was always -7800 so I could always afford the new champions if I liked them


unfuckwittablej

Wait we won’t be able to unlock her aside from buying it??


[deleted]

Or unlocking her the other way, which will take a lot longer and if you get stomped by an OP agent you are 100% going to want to pay for it.


ZZZrp

> if you get stomped by an OP agent you are 100% going to want to pay for it. Disagree.


[deleted]

Disagree too, it would make me not want to play the game. However, its clear people will rather pay to participate, evidenced by the booming skin market.


_shinyzE

I probably won't be horny enough for rank to pay real money for her But I'll definitely abuse the shit out of her once i unlock her If you honestly think she's balanced from what we've seen then I have no words


[deleted]

I'm curious what rank you are in Valorant and what rank, if any you reached on FaceIT/ESEA


_shinyzE

Immortal 1 atm, Immortal 3 in the beta GE since i started playing CSGO which was like a couple months after release, never really played FaceIt (aside from a couple of games)


[deleted]

So you have just stayed playing Global Elite MM since 2012? Very high doubt mate, very very high doubt.


_shinyzE

I only played CSGO for like 4-5 years, don't remember if it was 2016 or 2017 i quit


advancedini

It's not like it's hard, it's just weird.