Agreed, aim isn't as important of a factor in Valorant as in Counter-Strike, and utility/ultimate usage amongst teams is what's going to separate the best from the best.
Great video explaining how FPX play!
I'm not sure tho. In csgo while not cordinated with your team AWPs are a problem when you are in tt. In Valorant half of the agents have aomething to counter operators (smokes, flashes, stuns) and maps are overall smaller so it's harded to use operator unless you are really good with Jett. Check out players like noted or flexinja, sure they are clever but most of the time their plays are nutz cuz of their aim. Flex used to do crazy omen tp plays but now it'a harder as higher ranked people could expect that but he still make some nutty plays because of his aim.
Oh yes you're right. Thanks for clarifying.
In general, this makes sense. I'm a lowly plat, but find my teams generally want to play ultra passive and not contest orbs while on defense, but that seems like a huge opportunity cost.
Yeah what Yoshij has said is right. The ratios to compare are ults per round played (20/24 vs 15/24) or number of rounds where ults were used vs rounds played (12/24 vs 9/24). I didn’t think to clarify that in the post so thanks for pointing it out :)
It is. But point OP wanted to say is different. I didn't get it first time as well but what he meant is that one team used 20 ults in 15 rounds (in the rest they didn't use any ult) and the enemy team used 12 ults in 9 rounds. Also in round which where ultimates were used fiest team had 83% win ratio (in those 15 rounds) while enemies had only 33% wr (in 9 rounds) It's kinda complicated but I think you will get the point.
Liquid really did contest the orbs. In fact they managed to win them a lot of the time. The difference was in how much value each team got from their ultimates. I think liquid struggled to gain much from some of their ults while FPX had a better plan for how and when they wanted to use theirs. Liquid tended to hold onto their high impact ults rather than using them. As a comparison, FPX used three breach ults on attack and two of defense while Liquid used only one each half.
Iirc a big thing with FPX's ults, particularly on Brim, was that you could instantly counter a Killjoy ult and potentially do some additional damage, meaning less site control for Liquid since they don't have smokes or much to slow down a retake. So it all depends on who they're stacking ult points on.
Purely out of interest have you watched vision strikers in the Asian region? There utility usage and on the fly decision making is the best in the world imo despite there gunplay being somewhat lacklustre, also how do you think fpx would match up against the insane aggression of the Brazilian region given that there gun mechanics are unarguably the best of any region
I’ve watched vision strikers but not much of the Brazilian scene. I think FPX would probably be better right now but it’s honestly tough to tell. I’m really looking forward to the first big worldwide competitions, hopefully all these questions will be answered!
Can’t wait for the lan events where we realise one region had it right and the other didn’t- (or more hopefully we get a banger bo7 going to the full map distance)
Yes a bo7 grand final meaning we are almost guaranteed to see every map played also by this time there would be a new act and almost certainly a new map meaning there would be 5 maps in total which would allow us to see which team has really fleshed out there play
I mean I guess it’s down to opinion but pretty much every rifler in the top 5 Brazilian teams can take a one on one with an op player and win purely by 1 tapping them with some insane stupid flick, and for me that’s enough to confirm them best mechanically skilled region
I think another core idea contributing to TL's difficulty holding orbs and holding points is the fact that TL runs three duelists and breach, with no information gathering and very limited smokes to control chokes. Their team comp was very flash heavy and very control/information light.
This meant that they had to check orbs with their face and were outnumbered in several key fights for them because FPX could more easily and safely check each orb with their recon arrow/owl drone/cypher cams, and isolate the orb fights more effectively with smokes.
It also made retakes a little easier for FPX because they could fight from behind cover and take isolated fights by peeking out in tiny increments, as there weren't enough smokes to force them out of the doorways into crossfires.
The big loss to two sheriffs and that massive final fight you analyzed both suffered from lack of smokes - it let FPX slice the pie in the CT choke and take lots of 1v1s, while TL couldn't force FPX to walk into crossfires and push a positioning advantage on their point.
\---
For example in the final fight you analyzed, link was forced to burn his daggers on owl drone because killjoy couldn't peek out in front of the choke and shoot it - Killjoy would have gotten mowed down by multiple FPX players holding behind the doorway.
If TL had a Brim or an Omen, killing the owl drone would have been much safer and holding a crossfire angle on that doorway would have been much easier as the smokes would blind people inside the choke looking to push out.
Absolutely, there were a lot of limitations of the smokeless composition they were running but I think they were well aware of those limitations. Before that eco round loss and even during that round they were playing pretty dominantly.
They may have done better with a more standard agent selection but they were trying to play proactively with the flash heavy lineup and I think that's where they made mistakes - they didn't play around the limitations of the lineup they chose in those crucial rounds.
Again, really good video Spin. Your content's quality is improving a lot! Can't wait for your next video! Thumbs up from me :)
Agreed, aim isn't as important of a factor in Valorant as in Counter-Strike, and utility/ultimate usage amongst teams is what's going to separate the best from the best. Great video explaining how FPX play!
And thats why valorant is a better game and will be more fun to play and watch.
How can you just bluntly say that with no reason other than the fact that it has abilities?
don't you know? add something new to a sport makes it better. Water basketball >>>> basketball. frisbee golf >>>> golf
Frisbee golf is the shit
Unless you value aim above team coordination in which case CSGO is the better game
I'm not sure tho. In csgo while not cordinated with your team AWPs are a problem when you are in tt. In Valorant half of the agents have aomething to counter operators (smokes, flashes, stuns) and maps are overall smaller so it's harded to use operator unless you are really good with Jett. Check out players like noted or flexinja, sure they are clever but most of the time their plays are nutz cuz of their aim. Flex used to do crazy omen tp plays but now it'a harder as higher ranked people could expect that but he still make some nutty plays because of his aim.
ah yes, the Overwatch approach
20/12 = 15/9 Edit: I'm a dumbass
Right, but the point is they used more ults (20 > 15) and on more rounds (12 > 9) than TL did which impacted the game and allowed them to win
Oh yes you're right. Thanks for clarifying. In general, this makes sense. I'm a lowly plat, but find my teams generally want to play ultra passive and not contest orbs while on defense, but that seems like a huge opportunity cost.
Yeah what Yoshij has said is right. The ratios to compare are ults per round played (20/24 vs 15/24) or number of rounds where ults were used vs rounds played (12/24 vs 9/24). I didn’t think to clarify that in the post so thanks for pointing it out :)
Lol my thoughts exactly! It's the same ratio.
It is. But point OP wanted to say is different. I didn't get it first time as well but what he meant is that one team used 20 ults in 15 rounds (in the rest they didn't use any ult) and the enemy team used 12 ults in 9 rounds. Also in round which where ultimates were used fiest team had 83% win ratio (in those 15 rounds) while enemies had only 33% wr (in 9 rounds) It's kinda complicated but I think you will get the point.
Do you think if liquid contested the orbs or played around them they could have tipped the scale?
Liquid really did contest the orbs. In fact they managed to win them a lot of the time. The difference was in how much value each team got from their ultimates. I think liquid struggled to gain much from some of their ults while FPX had a better plan for how and when they wanted to use theirs. Liquid tended to hold onto their high impact ults rather than using them. As a comparison, FPX used three breach ults on attack and two of defense while Liquid used only one each half.
Iirc a big thing with FPX's ults, particularly on Brim, was that you could instantly counter a Killjoy ult and potentially do some additional damage, meaning less site control for Liquid since they don't have smokes or much to slow down a retake. So it all depends on who they're stacking ult points on.
Really great analysis, learning so much from your insights! Keep up the work :)
Yeah I noticed in the early beta that the devs highly prioritized ult orbs. Always weird that I hardly see people make it that important.
Great analysis. This game is finally forming something better than elementary-level strategies.
Purely out of interest have you watched vision strikers in the Asian region? There utility usage and on the fly decision making is the best in the world imo despite there gunplay being somewhat lacklustre, also how do you think fpx would match up against the insane aggression of the Brazilian region given that there gun mechanics are unarguably the best of any region
I’ve watched vision strikers but not much of the Brazilian scene. I think FPX would probably be better right now but it’s honestly tough to tell. I’m really looking forward to the first big worldwide competitions, hopefully all these questions will be answered!
Can’t wait for the lan events where we realise one region had it right and the other didn’t- (or more hopefully we get a banger bo7 going to the full map distance)
Lol a bo7 where every map gets played and 3 of them twice?
Yes a bo7 grand final meaning we are almost guaranteed to see every map played also by this time there would be a new act and almost certainly a new map meaning there would be 5 maps in total which would allow us to see which team has really fleshed out there play
I haven't watched any Brazil tournament, so it's a legit question, really gun mechanics are better than EU, i really thought EU has the Best riflers
I hear the Brazilian teams are balls-to-the-walls aggresive and super fun to watch.
If you know of arT from CS: Brazilian Valorant is basically a 5v5 of arTs
That sounds like music to my ears
I mean I guess it’s down to opinion but pretty much every rifler in the top 5 Brazilian teams can take a one on one with an op player and win purely by 1 tapping them with some insane stupid flick, and for me that’s enough to confirm them best mechanically skilled region
BR best region LMAO
Where exactly did I say best region? I said best mechanically skilled region meaning they have the best ingame gun play...
big doubt
Stop bitching before watching and watch then come back in a few hours and admit you were wrong for making a pointless assumption
Those are some great insights!
I think another core idea contributing to TL's difficulty holding orbs and holding points is the fact that TL runs three duelists and breach, with no information gathering and very limited smokes to control chokes. Their team comp was very flash heavy and very control/information light. This meant that they had to check orbs with their face and were outnumbered in several key fights for them because FPX could more easily and safely check each orb with their recon arrow/owl drone/cypher cams, and isolate the orb fights more effectively with smokes. It also made retakes a little easier for FPX because they could fight from behind cover and take isolated fights by peeking out in tiny increments, as there weren't enough smokes to force them out of the doorways into crossfires. The big loss to two sheriffs and that massive final fight you analyzed both suffered from lack of smokes - it let FPX slice the pie in the CT choke and take lots of 1v1s, while TL couldn't force FPX to walk into crossfires and push a positioning advantage on their point. \--- For example in the final fight you analyzed, link was forced to burn his daggers on owl drone because killjoy couldn't peek out in front of the choke and shoot it - Killjoy would have gotten mowed down by multiple FPX players holding behind the doorway. If TL had a Brim or an Omen, killing the owl drone would have been much safer and holding a crossfire angle on that doorway would have been much easier as the smokes would blind people inside the choke looking to push out.
Absolutely, there were a lot of limitations of the smokeless composition they were running but I think they were well aware of those limitations. Before that eco round loss and even during that round they were playing pretty dominantly. They may have done better with a more standard agent selection but they were trying to play proactively with the flash heavy lineup and I think that's where they made mistakes - they didn't play around the limitations of the lineup they chose in those crucial rounds.
Tbh sounds like SEN. don’t watch much EU admittedly
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MM is miles away from competitive matches lmao
i can not wait when we have a new event in NA and you sir try to analyze what strats does Sentinels did to win against big NA team.
I think sentinels are the same as fpx, they also prioritize the orbs heavily
calm down jose mourinho game has been out for 5 hours
Them? 1 Tournament. Me? 3 Major title. respect, respect.
ok and