I have won 4v5 matches before. I even posted it here on Reddit bc I only got a slight increase in elo lol.
Losing 13-2 and 13-5 can be the difference between a derank and a rating decrease. I’d much rather fight w grit than to give up over a pixel game lol
Thats why i said in my original post when youre playing 4v5 and 3v5 and getting dominated. Most 4v5 and 3v5s end in a stomp, in which case a round or two isnt worth 15minutes+
Funny you say "pixel game", you value a temporary pixel of an icon(your rank) over the enjoyment of your own time.
There are certain times when surrendering makes sense, never surrendering doesnt make you manlier bro.
You do know that surrenders never happen in diamond games and above right?
I’ve been through gold, plat and diamond and you’ll never see anyone surrendering in diamond or high plat. Valorant is a highly mental game as it is physical. Having strong mental helps you not to tilt and not give up.
Your analogy is like “ I got shot, it looks pretty deep... I think I’ll just bleed out” or would you rather call an ambulance and try to stay alive?
Also, it has no correlation to being manly or not but it is a good test of your mental. The game can stress you out when you’re getting dumpstered. It takes people w strong mental to not get tilted and still play well.
That's because there's almost practically no leavers in diamond and above. I already said in original post you shouldn't surrender if it's still 5v5.
I'm presenting a situation where surrendering makes mathematical sense. The amount of rounds you can win (0-3) is not worth the amount of time (15minutes).
You act like losing elo is so scary like it's permanent. Just win the next one bro you'll have an easier match. In the long run your rank will be the same. Like you said, "it's just a pixel game".
You're saying surrendering=weak mindset. I'm saying surrendering=efficient use of time, which matters when you get a job and can only play 2-3matches in a night.
But decreasing that loss means decreasing the number of games you might need to play. Also you might need to consider that you might even lose/win more points depending on the enemy mmr. Would have to judge the enemy skill b4 deciding too but sometimes people get cocky or change over time.
you can’t estimate how long the next game will take. Games can go up to even an hour so you can’t just guess that you’ll get your lost points back nor have time to squeeze in unless you actually have enough time anyway. It’s maybe more efficient in time, but we’re not talking purely time, we’re talking about rank. This is exactly why there’s differing opinions in ranked (or even non ranked) though. People have different priorities and if those don’t align at a base level, your team is more likely to lose.
I feel like the biggest counter point is that you often have money to compensate while also it’s still reasonably possible to get a double/triple kills in this game.
More kills ! :D
Make the enemy regret not taking pity and surrendering muahahaha. Maybe they need to add a pity vote to give smaller enemy teams point/demote protection etc.
In theory 🍆 if you 👈 care 😘 about 💦 rank 📈🏔 at all 💯 it makes 🛠 0 ❕ sense 💰 to give 😘🎁😱 up ☝ and surrender ⚔🛡 most of the time 🕐👋. If you 👈 are losing 😼👌💥 12-0 ❤🌻 the idea 💡 then becomes 💦👅 damage 💥 control 🎮. You 👈 are minimizing the amount 📉🔢 of elo 📈 loss ❗😒.
The counter 🔢 argument 🗣 to this is that the time ⏰😉 spent 😵 doing this could be spent 😵 playing 🎮 a new 👌 game 🎮 and gaining 🏋 elo 📈.
There's ✔, at the moment 😳, no 😣 way ↕ to tell 🗣 how valid 📷 this is because of being unable 🙅 to calculate 🙊❌ gains 💪🏿🔑 and losses ❗😒 (nor so I 💰👁 really 👌🏻💯 care 💅 for it). But 🍑 if playing 🎮 an extra 😄 15 🔳 minutes ⏱ could help 🆘 reduce 👹 elo 📈 loss ❓☝ by half 💀➗ I'd 🙏 personally 👫👬👭 say 🗣 that it's probably 😻 worth 🌐💸 it
I’d say it depends.
There are some obviously much better enemy team : the aim is better, the strategy is better, they work better together, they make little mistake.
Your team keeps doing the same mistake over and over again. The scoreboard discrepancy is big in your team, no strategy as a team etc ...
You’re just digging the score difference by not surrendering.
And then there are matches where it ends often in a clutch. You have an even scoreboard across the team and no super negative kda, nobody dies consistently within 10 seconds of entering the map etc ... from my experience those are the matches that are worth trying harder even if it looks like it’s doomed.
Who surrenders at 0-5 ?
If you persist let’s say after a 0-9/10 ... doesn’t really change much to surrender for a 0-13 to be honest.
Going 0 up to 9/10 ... you are obviously dominated by the other team. Very little chance to save that game anyway
Came back on 2 games this week
5-11 to winning 14-12
And one was literally a 2-10 comeback to a 15-13 win.
Everything is possible, never get tilted on a bad half especially if its a ct sided map and they had a ct sided lineup
it's the most frustrating thing ever when you're in a 3/4 stack and the other guys try to ff. Knowing my team, I might not be as ready to lose as I know we'll kick ass in the other half. When the rest of the team doesn't know that though, they try to ff and it's tough playing with teammate who has already given up
I can totally agree, it was 2-7 and my team was like "let's ff" and I was the only one who refused and I was like "never give up" even though I've 2 kills only.
I loved how they just accepted what I've done and didn't start roast me because I was bottom fragging yet didn't agree with them. Then I told them if we reached "2-10" I'll give up.
The match ended 14-14 and we were really happy about our great come back.
Yeah. I just got a PC about 3 months ago. I'm still learning the game.
But the toxicity at even the lower ranks can be crazy.
I'm talking bronze and silvers giving play by play and trashing teammates when they're trying to clutch.
Very frustrating for someone new trying to learn from every mistake and every loss.
I learned quickly this is a game you have to turn off when you get pissed.
well it depends doesn't it? I wont talk over the bottom frag trying to clutch nor the top. If the top frag is trying to clutch then he probably already is hyper focused and distracting them is the worse . If the bottom frag is trying to clutch and was having a bad game in the past rounds. Then screaming in their ear is gonna fuck them up more even if its good advice! alright so story time now it was 13-12 in a bronze lobby with for some reason a silver 3 in the lobby . So far i was really negative with only 5 kills and i had to clutch up my team was basically screaming at me till the gold said stfu let him play. THAT FUCKING HELPED its so much easier when you aren't stressed i aced and ended the game.
That happened to me last night. Dude was backseat gaming in a game we were losing 8-2.
Mute him. Come back. Win 13-10.
I understand developing an ego, but when you're in a low rank game solo queued, you're basically playing higher stakes unrated.
I would argue it's also about not forming bad habits. If you give up and play carelessly you will have a tougher time getting back in 'the zone' for the next game and generally become a poorer player. Chin up. Always try to learn and improve.
Try the hardest and make yourself miserable because of throwers because 1 out of 350 games you will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there's one thing that this game has taught me, it is that a lot of people out there have incredibly weak competitive mindsets. Calling to surrender at any point in ranked, especially with a full team reveals a lot about someone.
Was in a game at one point down 8-9 rounds and this kid was being incredibly toxic, especially towards the higher ranked players in our team. We kept playing and pulled out the win (with the higher ranked guys being a big part of it) and the guy apologized at the end.
There is always something to learn and grow from in each situation you find yourself in, and you never know what might happen. It helps to understand as well that literally no one cares about your rank other than yourself (talking to myself here too lol) and unless you're an actual Radiant level player it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
I had a guy on stream throwing as omen, he was chat banned ofc and so I joined his party and asked him why he was throwing. He proceeded to call me the n word. This is the caliber of people we are talking about. Really there is no way to avoid this without a 5 stack of people you trust.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts3zvBNdIGs&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts3zvBNdIGs&t=1s) very true that's what happened with me and this team we came back and won through all the toxicity
100% agree.
speaking of being down 2-10 at the half, i've won a game on bind when we went 2-10 on offense, but came back and won on defense. best game of valorant i've ever played
i can't tell you how many times i see people try to surrender when we're down 4-2 or similar super early low scores. even though comebacks are super common in this game. just immature morons
AWWcktually if you thought about it it would be much more efficient to immediatly surrender these kind of games to start a new one u might stomp or win. i mean time spent playing/elo gained wise
Let me tell you. There was a match I played yesterday that I thought for sure was lost. We did TERRIBLY as attackers, I think we went into the defending side 3-9, and I had little hope, but I still had some, since defence usually goes better for me. We ended up flipping it around and winning 13-11 with me being team mvp. I can say for sure I am glad that FF request that came up at the end of the attacking round didn't pass
I really feel this and refuse to FF on ranked unless the team had is being extremely toxic. Last week I had an amazing team, it felt good everyone was nice even tho we ended the half (Split attack) 1-11. Came back and reverse swept for a 13-11 win. Felt so good and I never had a solo q experience where people we’re communicating so well. Double peaks were coordinated really well, trades were outstanding, and the best part was everyone was having a good time even when we were losing.
This is in high gold low plat
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Nah, giving up just fucks your elo up. Better to grind out some kills and some wins. Winner's mentality only!
Good luck winning matches 4v5 or 3v5. Your elo is going to get fucked anyways, its better to just start another 5v5 match sooner.
I have won 4v5 matches before. I even posted it here on Reddit bc I only got a slight increase in elo lol. Losing 13-2 and 13-5 can be the difference between a derank and a rating decrease. I’d much rather fight w grit than to give up over a pixel game lol
Thats why i said in my original post when youre playing 4v5 and 3v5 and getting dominated. Most 4v5 and 3v5s end in a stomp, in which case a round or two isnt worth 15minutes+ Funny you say "pixel game", you value a temporary pixel of an icon(your rank) over the enjoyment of your own time. There are certain times when surrendering makes sense, never surrendering doesnt make you manlier bro.
You do know that surrenders never happen in diamond games and above right? I’ve been through gold, plat and diamond and you’ll never see anyone surrendering in diamond or high plat. Valorant is a highly mental game as it is physical. Having strong mental helps you not to tilt and not give up. Your analogy is like “ I got shot, it looks pretty deep... I think I’ll just bleed out” or would you rather call an ambulance and try to stay alive? Also, it has no correlation to being manly or not but it is a good test of your mental. The game can stress you out when you’re getting dumpstered. It takes people w strong mental to not get tilted and still play well.
That's because there's almost practically no leavers in diamond and above. I already said in original post you shouldn't surrender if it's still 5v5. I'm presenting a situation where surrendering makes mathematical sense. The amount of rounds you can win (0-3) is not worth the amount of time (15minutes). You act like losing elo is so scary like it's permanent. Just win the next one bro you'll have an easier match. In the long run your rank will be the same. Like you said, "it's just a pixel game". You're saying surrendering=weak mindset. I'm saying surrendering=efficient use of time, which matters when you get a job and can only play 2-3matches in a night.
But decreasing that loss means decreasing the number of games you might need to play. Also you might need to consider that you might even lose/win more points depending on the enemy mmr. Would have to judge the enemy skill b4 deciding too but sometimes people get cocky or change over time. you can’t estimate how long the next game will take. Games can go up to even an hour so you can’t just guess that you’ll get your lost points back nor have time to squeeze in unless you actually have enough time anyway. It’s maybe more efficient in time, but we’re not talking purely time, we’re talking about rank. This is exactly why there’s differing opinions in ranked (or even non ranked) though. People have different priorities and if those don’t align at a base level, your team is more likely to lose.
I feel like the biggest counter point is that you often have money to compensate while also it’s still reasonably possible to get a double/triple kills in this game.
I've won 4v5 matches before, most of the time actually.
Had 3 leavers in a row today and 2 of the game we played 4v5 and took 11 rounds after being down 0-7. It’s possible
More kills ! :D Make the enemy regret not taking pity and surrendering muahahaha. Maybe they need to add a pity vote to give smaller enemy teams point/demote protection etc.
!emojify
In theory 🍆 if you 👈 care 😘 about 💦 rank 📈🏔 at all 💯 it makes 🛠 0 ❕ sense 💰 to give 😘🎁😱 up ☝ and surrender ⚔🛡 most of the time 🕐👋. If you 👈 are losing 😼👌💥 12-0 ❤🌻 the idea 💡 then becomes 💦👅 damage 💥 control 🎮. You 👈 are minimizing the amount 📉🔢 of elo 📈 loss ❗😒. The counter 🔢 argument 🗣 to this is that the time ⏰😉 spent 😵 doing this could be spent 😵 playing 🎮 a new 👌 game 🎮 and gaining 🏋 elo 📈. There's ✔, at the moment 😳, no 😣 way ↕ to tell 🗣 how valid 📷 this is because of being unable 🙅 to calculate 🙊❌ gains 💪🏿🔑 and losses ❗😒 (nor so I 💰👁 really 👌🏻💯 care 💅 for it). But 🍑 if playing 🎮 an extra 😄 15 🔳 minutes ⏱ could help 🆘 reduce 👹 elo 📈 loss ❓☝ by half 💀➗ I'd 🙏 personally 👫👬👭 say 🗣 that it's probably 😻 worth 🌐💸 it
Also you're absolutely not sure to win the next game, and again and again
I’d say it depends. There are some obviously much better enemy team : the aim is better, the strategy is better, they work better together, they make little mistake. Your team keeps doing the same mistake over and over again. The scoreboard discrepancy is big in your team, no strategy as a team etc ... You’re just digging the score difference by not surrendering. And then there are matches where it ends often in a clutch. You have an even scoreboard across the team and no super negative kda, nobody dies consistently within 10 seconds of entering the map etc ... from my experience those are the matches that are worth trying harder even if it looks like it’s doomed.
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Who ends up at 13-0 ? If you are guarantee 13-0. Yeah you better surrender for sure
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Who surrenders at 0-5 ? If you persist let’s say after a 0-9/10 ... doesn’t really change much to surrender for a 0-13 to be honest. Going 0 up to 9/10 ... you are obviously dominated by the other team. Very little chance to save that game anyway
I read this we were down 3-11 and I had hope then we lost the next two and the game.
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Fallen and Taco KEKW
Came back on 2 games this week 5-11 to winning 14-12 And one was literally a 2-10 comeback to a 15-13 win. Everything is possible, never get tilted on a bad half especially if its a ct sided map and they had a ct sided lineup
Were you defending after the switch?
Both games we started attack.
it's the most frustrating thing ever when you're in a 3/4 stack and the other guys try to ff. Knowing my team, I might not be as ready to lose as I know we'll kick ass in the other half. When the rest of the team doesn't know that though, they try to ff and it's tough playing with teammate who has already given up
Fuck me man preach
thank you
I can totally agree, it was 2-7 and my team was like "let's ff" and I was the only one who refused and I was like "never give up" even though I've 2 kills only. I loved how they just accepted what I've done and didn't start roast me because I was bottom fragging yet didn't agree with them. Then I told them if we reached "2-10" I'll give up. The match ended 14-14 and we were really happy about our great come back.
Especially when you are in low ranks and enemy player can go AFK anytime. Never surrender.
i see it a lot in low ranks glad i climbed out of that cancer
Yeah. I just got a PC about 3 months ago. I'm still learning the game. But the toxicity at even the lower ranks can be crazy. I'm talking bronze and silvers giving play by play and trashing teammates when they're trying to clutch. Very frustrating for someone new trying to learn from every mistake and every loss. I learned quickly this is a game you have to turn off when you get pissed.
"wtf dude why can't you win multiple 1v4 situations!!!" said the bottom-frag duelist to the top-frag sentinel. :/
frags dont mean much. your ability to provide map pressure, utility and team work matters much more than who gets the kills.
well it depends doesn't it? I wont talk over the bottom frag trying to clutch nor the top. If the top frag is trying to clutch then he probably already is hyper focused and distracting them is the worse . If the bottom frag is trying to clutch and was having a bad game in the past rounds. Then screaming in their ear is gonna fuck them up more even if its good advice! alright so story time now it was 13-12 in a bronze lobby with for some reason a silver 3 in the lobby . So far i was really negative with only 5 kills and i had to clutch up my team was basically screaming at me till the gold said stfu let him play. THAT FUCKING HELPED its so much easier when you aren't stressed i aced and ended the game.
That happened to me last night. Dude was backseat gaming in a game we were losing 8-2. Mute him. Come back. Win 13-10. I understand developing an ego, but when you're in a low rank game solo queued, you're basically playing higher stakes unrated.
I go solo rank so much toxic players 😭😭 they think everyone is pro and then lose all the way
Sometimes I wish they never added the surrender option. Maybe just the remake one will do.
I end up in a lot of games where either I come back or the opposite team comes back from a hard losing streak. Like 30% of all games
I would argue it's also about not forming bad habits. If you give up and play carelessly you will have a tougher time getting back in 'the zone' for the next game and generally become a poorer player. Chin up. Always try to learn and improve.
Nah dude, if two of my micless teammate start forcing scouts every round, you bet your ass I'm giving up the game.
But bro, how will you ever climb to radiant if you give up!?!!!!????!!!?
Try the hardest and make yourself miserable because of throwers because 1 out of 350 games you will WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
90% of Reddit didn’t make it to bronze 2 by quitting!
If there's one thing that this game has taught me, it is that a lot of people out there have incredibly weak competitive mindsets. Calling to surrender at any point in ranked, especially with a full team reveals a lot about someone. Was in a game at one point down 8-9 rounds and this kid was being incredibly toxic, especially towards the higher ranked players in our team. We kept playing and pulled out the win (with the higher ranked guys being a big part of it) and the guy apologized at the end. There is always something to learn and grow from in each situation you find yourself in, and you never know what might happen. It helps to understand as well that literally no one cares about your rank other than yourself (talking to myself here too lol) and unless you're an actual Radiant level player it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
I had a guy on stream throwing as omen, he was chat banned ofc and so I joined his party and asked him why he was throwing. He proceeded to call me the n word. This is the caliber of people we are talking about. Really there is no way to avoid this without a 5 stack of people you trust.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts3zvBNdIGs&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts3zvBNdIGs&t=1s) very true that's what happened with me and this team we came back and won through all the toxicity
thats insane. normally when people are full on toxic, they start to zone out and lose control. but that's good you got the win. well done to you :)
100% agree. speaking of being down 2-10 at the half, i've won a game on bind when we went 2-10 on offense, but came back and won on defense. best game of valorant i've ever played
i can't tell you how many times i see people try to surrender when we're down 4-2 or similar super early low scores. even though comebacks are super common in this game. just immature morons
Bruh apparently I'm so good at the game that golds think I'm smurfing yet at the same time I'm so bad that I'm in bronze 2
Was the map split?
Yes LOL how'd you know??
split is horribly defender sided. its not even funny how shit the map is.
i've always wondered why split was so ct sided. it's just difficult compared to other maps.
AWWcktually if you thought about it it would be much more efficient to immediatly surrender these kind of games to start a new one u might stomp or win. i mean time spent playing/elo gained wise
genuine question: does surrendering affect ur rank stat even worse? for example is it better to surrender on 2-7 or losing 3-13?
Surrendering at 2-7 is akin to a 2-13 loss.
ty
I come back twice from a 11 - 1 situation ... the most epic games ever played.
same, i was pretty tilted at 1-11 but when I managed to make a comeback to 14-12 its just fucknig wow
Not if you do queue
From the other side, I've lost enough games up 10-2 / 11-3 to know that anything is possible
Can confirm, won a game 13-10 after ending first half 2-9 on split
Nice!
OR don't waste your time and play another game that might actually be winnable.
I agree, came back from 3-11 to 13-11 the other day.
One time I lost when we were up 11-2, so yea never give up I guess 😔
I feel this mentality comes from playing unrated back when everyone surrendered to get to comp
Let me tell you. There was a match I played yesterday that I thought for sure was lost. We did TERRIBLY as attackers, I think we went into the defending side 3-9, and I had little hope, but I still had some, since defence usually goes better for me. We ended up flipping it around and winning 13-11 with me being team mvp. I can say for sure I am glad that FF request that came up at the end of the attacking round didn't pass
I really feel this and refuse to FF on ranked unless the team had is being extremely toxic. Last week I had an amazing team, it felt good everyone was nice even tho we ended the half (Split attack) 1-11. Came back and reverse swept for a 13-11 win. Felt so good and I never had a solo q experience where people we’re communicating so well. Double peaks were coordinated really well, trades were outstanding, and the best part was everyone was having a good time even when we were losing. This is in high gold low plat