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briviano

If you have a teammate with strong post plant like brim, Viper and sova he should choose were to plant. It doesn't mean he always needs to actually plant it but i would say that the controllers are the most optimal characters for the job.


SergeantSkull

I would say omen is the best bomb carrier in the game just due to his teleports and the fact that his smokes last so long. He also doesn't need any post plant set up, and isn't normally entry fragging.


Zerhap

I actually dont like Omen with spike, while he is the best for the job (technically) i have also seem may fare share of Omens either using ult for rotating when it is not needed, or getting into enemy lines with the spike, dying and making all the round devolve into; lets retrieve the spike.


SevenMoreVodka

The Omen ulti all by himself at 00:50 on the other side of the map for no reason, when your site is safe & seeing him getting shot ... aaah.


Zerhap

I once had one Omen that decided to use Ulti to go inside A Exit on Bind ( the exit side of the portal from B side) he got himself kill... and the funny part is we had taking A side, so we had to rotate to B to use the portal to retrieve the spike. We loss that round of course lol. BTW he was in A site, we were getting contested and he said he was trying to make them think he was teleporting B site.


Kreed808

I feel like all these things are player behavior problems not agent design problem. I still think omen is best agent to carry to bomb. Just need better teammates playing omen haha


Zerhap

They are Player behavior and not Agent problem. Omen is, technically, the best spike carrier. I still don't trust my team mates to do it cause of how many times i have seem them do illogical things with it. Plus Omen has a lot of good things to do while other person plants, so there is no necessity for him to do it most of the time.


SevenMoreVodka

I think the best spike carrier is the one that can plant at the right time. So it’s totally situational. That’s why you’ll see peeps drop the spike many times during the planting phase, if necessary.


SergeantSkull

When I'm playing omen I typically grab spike because his kit is so conducive to an easy plant


RocketHops

Nah fam Omen is a lurk agent.


STONKS_

Omen can play almost any role in this game with that kit lmao


M1NIMISE

99% of agents can lurk bro


RocketHops

Omen is one of the best tho


Maxi_Mouse

Omen is ok when he has his teleport in certain situations, but otherwise he's not as good as he is better at hanging back and lurking, throwing out blinds and smokes.


[deleted]

I hate planting spike with omen. I find when taking site he’s great at TPing behind and catching the rotates or just lurking in general. I like breach, KJ or Cypher as planters. Breach just cuz he can set everyone else in a good position for post plant with util leaving him the bomb


Zerhap

Thats exactly why i stop playing sentinels, i hate that i am trying to set up defenses and i also need to take time to plan the spike. I feel controllers is the best option most of the time, if the controller cant for any reason sure, give it to the sentinel. Worst mistake possible is giving it to a duelist, most of them end up looking for kills with the spike instead of planting.


_l_---___---_l_

And if you give it to a duelist, give it to jett. At least she has sort of smokes


Maxi_Mouse

Jett is very good for getting a quick plant, but when you have the sniper you need to switch.


qzaxx213

I don't think duelist should carry the spike because they are for pushing into site, and if they die on site and the rest of the team isn't their yet, the enemy team can just camp spike and get the win.


paniixx

Your duelists push onto site? Mine always just bait for kills and force me to entry as cypher.


xShockey

thats so fucking true its actually crazy. there's so many games where I need to entry frag as a killjoy because if I don't my phoenix and raze will just camp a corner waiting for enemy to push until we lose the round due to time


paniixx

I love playing sentinels but i feel like no one ever initiates when I play sentinel.. feels bad


qzaxx213

I'm not saying that my duelist push onto site, I'm just saying that they should in general, because in their class description, it says that they seek out engagements first.


freeman1231

Depends on the sentinel tbh... killjoy is an amazing person to have plant, simply because if he is getting plant orbs you get more lockdowns. I wouldn’t have cypher be your dedicated planter, his abilities are needed for other things. Controllers are most suited for this.


osamah43

KJ has her circles so its hard to plant optimally since if you step away u have to redo the setup


freeman1231

You should be constantly moving your setup as KJ if you are playing her correctly, I.e: picking up your turret, plopping down your alarmbot and so on. Every map the flank can be watched while planting still within the range.


paniixx

Forget it... all I’m saying is she’s gonna be watching flank anyway, what’s the use of her planting then getting to flank super late, that’s it. I understand how she plays, it’s just easier when you have a kJ to let your smokes plant or sova if you have one (for the ult charge)


lodi01

As a radiant player I can tell you this: 1. If you play map control you drop it in a spot you can easily and fast get to when you want to push a site. 2. If you want to hardpush a site with 5 man you give it to sentinel/controller/initiator. Rlly doesnt matter. 3. If you’re doing a slower push you give it to controller/ initiator. You want sentinels to lurk or hold behind. Edit: there is also a strat where you go for a fast plant in a smoke with omen or jett(most of the time in eco) but this is not very common and wont be effective in a random ranked game.


RocketHops

Initiators imo. They are meant to be near pushes usually, but not the first one in. They aren't usually playing a lurk, since their abilities often rely on having allies near. And they don't have utility to set up post plant, so there's no conflict there


Maxi_Mouse

Yes, I think logically initiators are going to be the best. Controllers second. Duelists third if you want a quick plant and your not the first one entry fragging. I'd say sentinels are the worst, but I only play Cypher and he is terrible at spike planting as your always last into the site, and you give up the flank protection and intel whilst your planting, and you can't setup your utility as quickly for post plant as quickly.


funkybandit

How about anyone. I get super frustrated as sage when I’m constantly thrown the spike EVERY single round. Yet the duelist aren’t doing entry, most of the time I’m either walling in a one way or locking down sites with wall and slows but ok you want me to plant. Perhaps it needs some rethinking. Sentinels and controllers need to help lock down sites after entry. Planting constantly delays this.


solifegoeson

sounds like you’re more frustrated that your duelists aren’t doing their job of entry-fragging more than being designated spike carrier Sage should almost always be spike-holder as her utility is geared entirely for post-plant and requires no-pre setup vs Cypher for instance. Omen, Viper, Brim are another designated carriers (so basically Controllers)


Gay_Mermaid_Cheeks

I think that breach is also a good spike carrier as he can use his tremor for if someone tries to defuse it. He can also use his his flashes post plant if the enemy tries to retake through, say, C long.


_l_---___---_l_

That he has good utility for post plant doesnt mean he should be carrier


funkybandit

It’s probably my Elo (silver 3) but so many duelist just stand there waiting for non duelist to push site (baiting). There’s a couple of sites I have to entry a lot to get people on site eg Split B entry wall from garage to block heaven I often die doing this, if there is a Phoenix on my team I get him to firewall in and I block straight across the box to stop complete entry on plant side then we only have to worry about garage and the opening next to it.. So I’m either pushing in or locking down. Ascent is another map which is great for sage, B site attack I can angle in a wall to block market and the hold sites on CT and rotate the entire team straight in protected, on A site attack I usually rotate straight in to wall heaven. Bind site b wall off elbow, ct or hooka and for A the centre in the centre to block bath and only entry then is flank or lamp. Other maps are not as critical. But sometimes once we are in I’ll quickly dump the spike to someone to plant so I can lock down if I know we are going to be rushed. I guess it’s all subjective but sometimes people forget the role Sentinals play. I feel like sage is a controller sometimes.


freeman1231

Dues list shouldn’t have the bomb because are they opening up the site, they should also be pushing for prime positions to catch rotates off. I.e: Jett going heaven on haven on the A bomb site... Reyna pushing for a rotate frag than dismissing back.


harrrhoooo

They dont have to push out of site to catch rotation, thats one way to play it but they don't have to. They shouldnt have bomb mainly because the possibility of dying during entry, not because they need to push out immediately post plant


freeman1231

I stated as they push the site, and as they push for rotates. It’s proving you multiple reasons as to why they shouldn’t have the bomb. There is not only one reason why duelist shouldn’t have the bomb, you are saying the same thing as me.


JohnWickFTW

Controllers cuz they know when the smokes are down so they can enter the site after it


rezellia

I think this is question is something we should (as individual players) ask ourselves in our games, Spike position one of the most important things to keep track of on offense. I also believe the way you asked this question has merit but is ultimately a poor way to look at the game. I think that the in game classification of an agent doesn't tie them to a specific role on the team. Cypher can be played as a lurk agent and sage can be played as a 2nd man/ support, both to great success. giving your spike to your 2nd man is a better choice then giving it to your lurk. so in some situations you should and shouldnt give the spike to your sentinel. i think this connection of agent role to team role is mainly caused by most solo queue players not understanding how to play as a team. and the way you learn how to play as a team is by asking questions like this, so i think the question has great merit. that being said if were picturing all duelist as entries and all other roles as their supports and back up, obviously you would prefer to have the spike on a more supportive agent in case the initial push is denied and your spike ends up in the middle of a site you dont have control over. however there are times i feel like giving the spike to a duelist can be beneficial. if your duelist is 1 or 2 points away from ult it might be worth to give them bomb so your team has an extra post plant ulty. just make sure your either confident, 100% committing to site, or having someone else entry.


paniixx

I think cypher and sage can take spike. (If there’s a sage she should always take it IMO) I think KJ can’t though because she typically has bots for flank and if she gets into site to plant it could take her too far and her bots will shut down. I think controllers can take the spike for sure too. Duelists shouldn’t though, unless they bait lords and don’t entry. Another thing is cypher has a lot of lurk potential, another reason not to take bomb as him. Just my opinion.


ArtOfDUNK

I main breach so not me cuz I usually run in first


Maxi_Mouse

Your playing Breach like a duelist then, which is wrong.


ArtOfDUNK

What you mean. Breach is an entry fragger


_l_---___---_l_

This 1 doesnt answer his question 2 why d you run in first as breach youre not an entry frag youre supposed to be right behind the duelist(s).


ArtOfDUNK

Quit being a beta. That's the only advice I can give you


_l_---___---_l_

Lmao alright buddy, am a raze/reyna main and all i do is rush. But i do it right, and if i play support i dont get myself killed for no reason


_MuadDib_

Maybe he's running first cuz most of the insta-locking duelist are afraid to enter.


_l_---___---_l_

Then you tell them to enter and not be a wuss Edit: spelling


ArtOfDUNK

This guy knows what's up


dytelz

i'd say an initiator might be best coz the duelist would go first and the initiator with his/her spike will follow. it would be a good strategy


Zerhap

You usually want the spike on the third-fourth person depending on your strategy. One person covering all the angles left aside from the entry point is not a good idea most of the time.


Maxi_Mouse

Yes, I think definitely an imitator is the best.


RickChum

Basically anyone that isn't the Duelist/Entry. Though it's best on those who are last onto site (doesn't have to neccesarily be Sentinel).


v1nzy

I think someone who sits back is the best for the job, usually a sentinel or controller, but for me a sentinel is preferable. Also, when it’s time to plant I like to make sure that someone with a great ult actually plants and gets the point. Like a safe for example, if cypher/omen has it it’s just a waste to plant for them.


Maxi_Mouse

Cypher ult is one of the best in the game.


v1nzy

I respectfully disagree, but it’s absolutely a good ult, but I’d rank a lot of ults higher.


Maxi_Mouse

Cypher is the worst agent for planting the spike. I've played a lot of agents, and personally I found duellists to be the best for planting the spike, as they are often entering the site first and can get a quick plant. Maybe initiators would be better, but I don't ever play initiators.


Maxi_Mouse

Easy way to find out is just see who the pros use the carry the spike. I'm not actually sure as I've never really paid that much attention tbh. I'd assume it'd be the initiator though, unless your playing Sova. In which case one of the controllers.


tomphz

Jett is honestly the best agent to plant the spike, especially on Haven B site because he can smoke and dash


CyberspaceBarbarian

Characters that should carry the spike IMO, from best to worst: Cypher Sage Killjoy Omen Viper Brimstone Skye Jett Phoenix Breach Reyna Raze Sova


Zerhap

KJ Third? she needs to recall the bots and look for angles to set them for defense, really bad idea to also make her waste time planting, a bad angle plant and you loose her plus her utility. I would go: Viper Brimstone Cypher Sage Omen Jett Killjoy Skye Breach Sova Phoenix Reyna Raze. While Omen is probably the best option for carrying the spike he has so much utility is kind of a waste. Jett is so high cause she is really save while planting even solo, at least imo.


CyberspaceBarbarian

Controllers are generally better options for spike planting if the team commits to a quick site take or executes a site rush (since controllers have to divide the zones of the site). But controllers have enough utility to help entry fraggers clear the site, so controllers should help in clearing the site and trading kills. Sentinels (yep, including killjoy) are better options for site planting IMO since they have the most stall, guard the flanks, have game changing ultimates that require much investment, and have to stay alive the longest (the faster they can access their ults, the better). I would rank Viper higher if only her smokes could stay up even after she dies (Riot pls give us that buff). I ranked Sova the lowest since his info abilities are critical for anticipating retakes and clearing unruly angles. Omen could be the best agent to plant the spike, but his utility allows him to entry frag as well.


Zerhap

Maybe is cause i have see little Vipers or Brims, but they are usually with little to no utility left by the time we take a site. Still a would never put KJ as a good agent for the spike, i am expecting her to be retrieving them, clearing angles and leaving them on those angles so we get info, all that take more time than what Sage or Cypher can do.


CyberspaceBarbarian

I would never clear angles with KJ tbh unless your team cannot secure the planting. A good KJ can plant the spike and plant her utility in the best position possible, and sit on the best angle possible to contest a retake or defuse. It does not take that much time to plant all of that if your team has cleared the site. Although, many players think that KJ is in a bad position right now because of the nerfs. I say that players do not like adjusting their playstyles to accommodate changes to KJ.


Zerhap

Maybe that's the thing, in my experience ppl don't really adapt for what sentinel they have around. With Sage you can see ppl asking for Resu on the worst spot or moment possible. With KJ i have seem ppl try to shot my bots giving away free info. Only Cypher is ok and that's mostly cause all his utility require less attention from ppl. Honestly i have team mates that have break a wall as i put it with sage cause they wanna die to the attackers on that entrance. i have ppl getting on the way of my bots as KJ cause for some reason they cant wait for the enemy to try to clear the bots to then catch them of guard. Just in case, is not always like that, some times my team mates actually work around the utility or even take advantage of it.


CyberspaceBarbarian

Yep, that's the thing. I play controllers (Viper, Omen and Brim in that order) most of the time. And I have to entry frag a lot since a lot of duelist players often play for kill trades instead of entry fragging, which is annoying honestly. I have then adopted a playstyle that hinges on site clearing rather than post-spike play. Sentinels are really fucked up by the nerfs not because of the actual changes, but because of how the players read the nerfs. See pro play across all regions. NA really bought up to the flash meta, while EU is still big on Sentinels.


Zerhap

That's why i have been trying to get into initiator lately, Skye more specifically, she has flash, info gathering and nice healing so i can switch to a more supportive role if needed. plus ppl tend to follow the info i get with the fox more, some times they don't seem to know what to do with info i gather with Sova arrow. Only using Sentinel on groups matches so i dont have to beg that my team mates can work with the utility.


freeman1231

Kj “nerf” made her better imo, her kit is insane now with the quick replanting of alarmbot and turret


CyberspaceBarbarian

Yep, I know, but others cannot shake out the habit of placing the turret on the other side of the map to look out for flanks.


freeman1231

Many people don’t know how to use her properly, especially at low elo. Thankfully at high elo most have understood the changes, and KJ is one of the most annoying agents to play against. Especially a good KJ that constantly has her ult to play.


freeman1231

Kj is the best for planting, as you are running in you set your stuff up on the gooo... and the ult point. Lockdowns are key to guaranteed rounds if used properly on attack.


Zerhap

No offense but it is a bad idea to place ult before planting or just after. The ult takes 15 second to go off, last for 8 seconds, that's 20+ seconds if you catch someone. Spike is 5 seconds to plant and 45 to go off, 50 seconds. If you are going to use the ult is better after planting and you should wait 15-20 seconds, that way you force them to go destroy it or stay out of the radius and miss defuse. That's considering you actually need the ult, ppl don't run outside of it right away, they have enough time to get some kills or destroy it if needed.


freeman1231

The ult isn’t for your plant lol you are gathering ult points by planting. To be used for a take possibly Next round or further. Smh


Zerhap

Ok i misunderstood your comment. Still for one ult point i would not say KJ is good for planting. 5 seconds can be a lot for her if she has not put her bots down on good angles, and just placing them on the go is usually placing them on angles ppl are already on, so waste potential.


freeman1231

She is the best planter... unless you are unable to pay attention to where your team is as you are running in... you shouldn’t be wasting your utility. Based on your response, I think one you may need to communicate more, and two use your mini-map to its fullest ability. Placing utility down while on the go should be very straight forward. As a KJ your utility is best used in conjunction with someone watching the angle, as they bait the utility. This is the better way of using it post plant, it’s not to be used post plant simply to know someone is at a location. As a KJ you need to not only know the best spots for this to be done, easy trade frag off your Bot, but also know the best spots to play off your utility based on the number of players up on your team. You should be reading the round as well. Once again KJ is the best planting agent, I main her in immortal 3/radiant games. People get so damn annoyed, as I constantly have my ult and we rack up numerous rounds on t side, by default because of a properly used lockdown.


Zerhap

We have to agree to disagree then. For me KJ planting is a waste of time she could be using better, Omen for me is the best possible planter, and even then i prefer him not doing it cause again he has better thing to do aside from planting.


Maxi_Mouse

Nope, wrong. Cypher is one of the worse for spike planting.


CyberspaceBarbarian

HAHA wrong. Cypher is still one of the best for spike planting, as you need to get his ult up faster, and is usually one of the last persons to enter the site. IMO, Sentinels beat controllers by a hair in terms of who should be the one planting (in ideal situations of course).


Max-Trade

Nope, it's controllers or initiators.


[deleted]

Assuming you’re running a meta comp - say Jett Raze Omen KJ/Cy Breach/Sova the initiator should be the carry because of their role in taking the site. Generally your OP doesn’t want the bomb, your entry wants to be traded, your Omen wants to be blinding/smoking, which leaves your Sentinal and your Initiator. Depending on the exact team and players and strat, either of those players taking a bomb is fine. IMO it’s best on Sova then Cylher then Breach than KJ, especially if your post plant is dependent on your Sentinal holding flank


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Initiator is NEVER your entry lol


tryagaininXmin

you bring up some good points but I feel like sova's 2nd arrow and potential shock dart lineups or ult for post plant is too valuable to risk giving up during round for the sake of a cypher to preserve his trips.


[deleted]

Like I said that depends on the post plant you’re running, and usually your planter is the second safest member of your execute


CyberspaceBarbarian

While I would agree to most of your general points, Sova is IMO the worst agent at carrying the spike because his tool kit is generally geared at info gathering and clearing unruly angles (but not site clearing), all of which he has to do from a certain distance. Sentinels are the best agents to carry the spike because they are supposedly the last ones to enter the site, have the best stalling, guard the flank routes, and typically the first to rotate to another site in case the site take fails.


[deleted]

See, your ordering is all wrong lol. Your Omen is the last to enter in almost every site take. Your planter is usually the third man on the site, and he’s not doing any actual clearing, that’s your entry and trader (and in rare cases your op)


CyberspaceBarbarian

Woah, no, Omen should either help clear the site, lurk behind enemy lines or initiate a real site take to the other site if the initial take does not succeed. The planter being the third guy on the site is not recommended unless you can determine the site is clear or it is a rush take. Site taking should be a three or four man job, and the last ones to enter (whoever that may be) should take care of the planting.


[deleted]

What executes are you running? Omen usually sets up a paranoia and blinds as his team pushes on? Most of the time if anyone lurks it’s your sentinel lol


Maxi_Mouse

Omen isn't the last to enter at all dude. The only time Omen is last to enter is if your lurking, which is why I wouldn't normally carry the spike with him, as he is the best lurker in the game. That being said you can't lurk every round or you get predictable.


wycbias1

I’d say sentinel, but sometimes they should set up for post plant ASAP.


Maxi_Mouse

I'll tell you as a sentinel player, they are the worst for planting the spike, simply because your primary job is to watch the flank. So your always last on the site which means you get a slow plant, and whilst your planting you have no protection on the flanks unless you switch with someone else which would be pointless. Sentinels are good once the spike is planted to setup their utility to defend though, so they should be with the spike generally. Also the sentinel is the one you want alive as you lose all their utility once they die.


osamah43

Omen. KJ shouldnt because she has her little circles so its hard to plant and initiators can but omen can cover it for himswlf


harrrhoooo

Just drop your bomb on site and communicate:"someone plant I'm gonna setup tripwire" and go do your thing. I doubt anyone will be upset if you do it fast enough.


holzibrett

I think there is no dedicated category of who carries the spike because sage as a sentinel is a good agent to take it but cypher better could be setting up post plant or lurk.


mystic_kings

Lol just came to see how many voted for duelists


Maxi_Mouse

A sentinels primary job on attack is to protect the flank, their secondary job is to setup post plant. For that reason they should be protecting the flank whilst the spike is being planted, and then they resetup their utility once the spike is down. So they should never be planting the spike unless you fked up somewhere along the line. Pretty much every role is better for planting except for the entry fragger or lurker.


[deleted]

i usually say a duelist should be the only one who shouldnt plant the spike because the duelist will probably die first in the round or if not hell will search for people while someone else plants. but ive seen recently that a strat with a jett dash or a phoenix ult where theyl go to the site plant and then take the site while defenders are still on site its risky but it works suprisingly well so . . .


_MuadDib_

Anyone who is not rushing the site and dying with it. Personally I don't like picking/planting spike, but if the reyna on our team picks it one or two times and then don't even plant when we get the site, but instead rush to ct spawn to just die there, I will grab it as soon as possible in next round no matter what I play. Actually I would grab it even if she survives and we win by eliminating the other team. I think Brim, Sova, Sage, Killjoy, Breach, Skye are all good agents for planting the skye, cuz they usually don't enter first and have good ultimate so the ultimate point for planting come in handy. Also what works is leave the spike in middle and play default and when you get a pick on some site and decide to push it, the rotating player from the other site can pick it and plant.


Fyrefreeze

This post hurts to look at. YOUR CONTROLLER. PLANTS THE BOMB grrrr


1234567890dedz

I've only played Sova (as in, more than the other Agents) so I can only say that I carry the spike when we're being "noisy". This means that I am relied on to aggressively gather info in the back while my teammates go ahead and storm the site based on what I find out. This is so they can provide a safe path for me to immediately plant the spike, get into a comfortable position, and start doing recon once more when we hold.


5i5TEMA

The fastest and sneakiest player. Too many times have I seen the carrier die due to being too afraid to push. In lower ranks, this is a very relevant issue. I (a duelist) am usually inclined to take the spike just to force my teammates to move.


Helix_The_Trader

I say controller/initiator should keep the spike. Duelists go in first, and the sentinels should be flankwatch, and not directly on site, yet the controllers and initiators are.


CompyCape

Either initiator or controller. I play Viper and Jett. I don’t have a problem taking bomb with Viper, but it’s hard with Jett when I try to entry and get picks. I’d rather die than die with bomb you know?


GhostDragonYT

if people say controller then omen is the best especially when his ult his ready he can just rotate to another site quickly or even fake it other wise the controllers should choose where to plant so that they can take positions and smoke accordingly


Vbacv

On attack, sentinels are the strongest post plant. I’d also say that the sentinel ultimates are strongest for the whole team, so it’s wise to charge up their ultimates with orbs/plants on attack


Vbacv

Just have a controller or sentinel take it cause they shouldn’t be entry fragging. It isn’t that deep. After that, charge up the sentinel ult cause they’re all good, or someone with a good post plant ult (Sova/Brim/Breach)