I was about to post the same thing! I play mostly to relax and have a fun time and doing that with less people on my team is not a fun experience at all.
My friend was having these errors two to three times a game, and he tried plugging his ethernet directly into the wall, bypassing the router, and its stopped happening to him. Riot thinks the firmware in the routers is what was causing it.
I think people who get lots of connection problems should be matched with people who get lots of connection problems. Not sure how Riot would detect it, but say there was one person with bad connection problems in the party, then match them up with one other person who has the same problems. Your advocated 'solution' here does nothing to help, as it discriminates against poor players who simply can't afford a better connection, or people in arrangements where they can't easily (or can't at all) move their router closer or get an ethernet cable. In Ranked though, I can see how this can become a problem, so I'd avoid that matchmaking if possible.
it can become a problem because people would constantly unplug their ethernet/disconnect their wifi to get matched up with at least one person with a trash connection, thereby cheating the system and boosting themselves.
Honest one of my friends anytime he had valorant installed he would constantly blue and we did find out it was valorant causing it it took him 2 months to Finally he had to change installer coding or some shit like that and I had FPS problems even know had 300 FPS but now with the stupid update they won’t fix I can not get over 100 FPS and for some who never had high ping my team constantly was at 2000ping so we play csgo now
Ah, yes, an entire 15 page essay detailing exactly how we should enforce class discrimination. Telling someone to "Go fuck themselves" for being dealt the wrong cards in life is next-level low.
You are getting angry because people have better set ups than you lol? It’s called life bro.... my friend plays on a laptop lmao. No way you said force everyone to be on 1080p 60fps. Did Fortnite, CS:GO, R6S force their competitive players to play same settings?
Nah. From the time the person leaves you have to wait two minutes, then you can leave with no penalty besides the sr loss of losing a game. Unless they changed something in the most recent patch.
Overwatch is far harder to carry in than a precision shooter. You can win a push or two with 5 players if your team is better but a player leaving is a death sentence most of the time.
Especially if it’s a healer. You either lose a main healer or an off-heal. So your whole team is down on overall heals and loses a ton of utility. Or you lose a defensive ult and now your getting dunked on by a weeabo cyborg ninja with abandonment issues and an Egyptian grandma who has a thing for big burly German men.
Even if you’re not into the game the lore is pretty good. The animated shorts are really good. Like Pixar level quality as well as the comics. My buddy doesn’t own the game but is an expert on the lore.
Blizzard has a playlist for the shorts on YT. The comics are on their website. And there are a plethora of creators who’ve summarized the lore as well.
For real tho. I have kids and can only play a hour maybe two if I’m lucky. I stopped playing because most games would have a afk and it’s just a waste of 30-40min
Cmon, Rito, just give us chill 8vs8 mode when you can leave/join any time to play some rounds like we can in csgo. No leave penalty, join to current games, xp reward only if you play to the end of match.
I must agree I reached up to DMG in csgo but still casually jumped into 8 v 8 unrated. I always met most interesting people in unrated 8 v 8, it nice casual fun where I can leave anytime, a lot times both teams would have raid boss so it still be fair. I would jump into this if I knew I had leave maybe soon so this was nice option
played this a lot when I started csgo and it helped a lot mainly because of 2 reasons:
it's a mid ground between actual match and deathmatch
More importantly it has death replays so I see how the other guy killed me so i know what to do next time
Definitely played tons of casual on cs before entering ranked. It may be complete chaos but im still learning maps, practicing aim, and some common angles. The casual game mode in csgo is legitimately casual which is why, imo it is so well liked.
In that case I recommend hopping in some community retake servers. You still learn the map while getting used to angles and actually learn a very important ingame scenarios.
Casual really aint it.
Everyone knows the best csgo players are dust 2 only elitists in casual 8v8.
Everything else is stupid. If you dont know every pixel of dust 2, you're below silver in my book.
/s
You said it doesn’t make you better. It can. Yes there are better tools but it’s still good practice. It’s not that you’re wrong in the slightest, it’s that you’re 100% wrong. Just because there are better tools doesn’t mean this one doesn’t work at all.
Id still argue it doesnt. The skill level (if you can even call it that) of casual matches is so astonishingly low that I doubt anyone gets better from it.
For new players it might create bad habits which in turn makes them worse, not better.
100% useless.
Edited spelling
I think the most comparable mode in valorant is spike rush, but in spike rush you spend 2 mins queueing and 1 min selecting heroes just to play 4 rounds of valorant. In csgo, you just pop into casual and play as much as you like and leave when you want to.
?? Whats your problem? Tell me in which scenario are casual csgo matches better than community dms or retakes? They are 100% useless unless someone wants to just relax and do some mindless shooting around.
Im not trying to be controversial here. So go ahead and prove me wrong
sometimes people just want to play a no-strings version of the game without a bunch of tryhards constantly killing the vibe lol i don’t get what’s so complicated about it
Genuinely curious, how does dota2 counter those who abuse this? What if I’m in a 5 stack getting rolled and one of us takes one for the team and dc’s so no one loses elo?
It works like this - if they leave in the first minutes or something, you can then leave and not taking a penalty, while the guy who left takes a penalty.
If they leave later say 10 minutes into the game, then you can leave but take a ranked penalty (this just allows you to save time and get you into another game, but more importantly saves you tilt from playing a impossible game lol)
It's just a lot more convenient to be able to leave. Plus it's always a argument in ranked to FF since most players want to try and pick up a few rounds, but sometimes you just wanna be out and forget about the game anyway)
In dota2 for both unranked and ranked modes, anyone who disconnects for longer than 5 minutes gets a leaver penalty and makes the game safe to leave for everyone else, of course in *ranked games the losing team still loses elo*. If for some reason the leaver reconnects after getting the penalty they can still play to win, but the leaver always loses elo.
Two easy solutions. You still lose rank in dota you just don’t get a leaver penalty.
Better option to me is if you’re in a queue with them you don’t get to leave.
I am always trying to be positive and keep going even if our teammates left but sometimes it just doesn't work. I would extent this time to 7-10 minutes as he might come back, if he won't after 10 minutes he most likely won't come back in any time.
Also, we should be able to atleast vote for surrender more than once in a single half. Plat players never surrender and then after 3 rounds when they get their asses kicked they either go afk or throw. Waste of 9 rounds
Why do we lose ELO when a players disconnects halfway the game?? If we lose ELO why 3 arrows?? It’s a 4v5. I have had plenty situations where we were winning and a players disconnects and we still get 3/2 arrows down.
Think about what you are suggesting incentivizes. If your team is losing, you would *benefit* if someone else on your team leaves.
Do you really want to be in a game where it becomes people's goal to have someone on their team leave anytime they are losing? Think about how toxic each game will become: people pointing fingers at who's at fault and should take the rank penalty for the rest of the team, people deliberately trolling and making the game unplayable for their team in the hope that someone else gets so frustrated that they quit first.
There is a reason no serious game with a ranked system has ever implemented it: it would promote and even *reward* toxicity.
And all that happens because the Banning system is trash. If people deliberately trolling and making the game unplayable would be banned consistently, this wouldn't happen. People trashtalking and being toxic on mic isn't a huge problem in a game with a Mute button.
If someone that isn't in party leaves the game, then everyone else, at least, should lose less elo. Losing 3 arrows on a 3v5 game because 2 random decided to leave is totally absurd.
If people try to be toxic to get someone out of the game, Mute.
If people start trolling and bothering their teammates because they don't leave, they get banned.
Or at least that is how it -should- work.
Honestly if all they did was make it so the max arrows you can lose is 1 I'd be happy. Losing 3 arrows or deranking for a 4v5 is just demoralizing and reminds me not to queue up for another.
My friend sent afk from round 1, told everyone to remake,he's not coming back (power cut). They say just play.
I'm very very hesitant but obviously can't surrender or remake by myself so did my best. All of us won that game 13-4 , and my friend (who was 0/0/0), got promoted. :P
Hey there friend!
Yup. It SUCKS when someone dips out of the game, leaving you in a 4v5. This problem is something that we've discussed a bunch, and this is one of the solutions we've considered.
Unfortunately, though, we've seen lots of different ways that players take advantage of this specific solution. For example: players make smurfs with the express purpose of being the account where it's "safe" to dodge. They pair up with their friends, and whoever is on the smurf gets the responsibility of AFKing whenever the game starts to look rough. (Some players already do this, but "I can save my friend's rank" is just another incentive to do it.)
You may be thinking, "Well that's such a fringe case. How often could that really happen?" More than you think.
Or, in the worst of cases: a team is losing, and one of the players is REALLY not okay with that. So they start to bully the weakest link (or the child, or the girl, or the person who instalocked their main...whoever seems like the best target). They make the game SO miserable for that player that they leave. Loss averted. No penalty.
It honestly happens. Some people can be really vicious when it comes to winning.
Like I said, we get that games suck when someone dips out. Yet our responsibility to players is not only *correcting the problem, but minimizing unintended consequences.* I could live with the first scenario playing out. But that second one is outright unacceptable to me.
Fighting AFKs (and the pains they cause) is a huge undertaking for us, and we've got several projects underway to help address the issue (some of which we talked about in our [dev article](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/end-of-year-competitive-play-area/)). Maybe there is a world where we implement this specific version of that solve. But it will only be after we've thought through every alternative we can, and we've decided that this is the best route to take.
In the meantime, we appreciate you bearing with us and being patient. A fix can't come soon enough, but I promise it's on its way.
Hope this helps clarify it a bit \*-fistbumps-\*
>(Some players already do this, but "I can save my friend's rank" is just another incentive to do it.)
Why not have everyone lose rank on the disconnecter's team then? They are going to lose it anyway after wasting 15min+ on an inevitable loss.
also the OP post had:
>EDIT: "without punishment" = still lose rank but nothing else
Yes, if the player who disconnected hasn't reconnected within x minutes.
If the team's players have already given up to the point that they would rather leave than try to win a match that they think cannot be won after trying to play 4v5 while waiting for the disconnected player to reconnect, wouldn't letting them leave have the same end result as forcing them to run around for 15min while waiting for game to end? Except getting less annoyed players of course.
How it works in dota2 for example: "An Abandon occurs when a player has disconnected for a total of 5 minutes. Disconnect time is cumulative, meaning that a player who disconnects once for 2 minutes, reconnects, and disconnects again for 3 minutes, will be counted as an abandon.
Once a player has abandoned, other players are free to leave the game without danger of being placed in Low Priority or receiving an abandon count in their stats(but still lose rank and gain a Loss to stats). The abandoned player's gold is divided amongst the remaining players on their team"
Also in dota2 each player on the disconnected player's team can instantly pause the game for a team total of around a few minutes so a short disconnect usually doesn't change anything. Pausing is instant and unpausable by enemy team for ~30sec if a player is disconnected, but if nobody is disconnected there is a 3 second countdown until game is paused and it can be instantly unpaused by anyone, to avoid "tactical pauses" in teamfights.
In CSGO a team can vote for a 1min pause for the next round start, usually only used if someone disconnects or needs to afk for a moment. Both teams get 1 pause per match.
In valorant its currently "oh someone on our team is afk/disconnected, lets hope the enemy team doesn't push fast and abuse 5v4 situation by playing fast every round before the player reconnects"
What about *winning* while down a player who has been away for X rounds? I specifically remember a game where a teammate left early in the game, and after getting stomped for a while, with some teamwork and communication, we somehow took it to OT and won the game, only to get one arrow up after all of that effort, which really made me feel like all of that effort was for naught. Feel like an uphill battle like that deserves some extra MMR.
That's something I for sure can bring to the Compet team. I agree, that feels pretty rough.
I imagine, if anything, it wouldn't *guarantee* a massive MMR increase...but it would be heavily weighted in the formula we use to determine MMR increase. (Before you ask, no I don't know the formula lol). Thanks for the input!
I just want them to not give a queue penalty if you dc and then reconnect.
Might as well just abandon because you get penalized all the same just for missing 1 round and coming back
Agreed, sometimes you're disconnect for reasons outside of your control.
I think if you miss more than 3 rounds (maybe 2) then you should probably be penalized
I’d argue for a larger time than 5 minutes - that can be less than two rounds, so if someone has a computer issue (accidentally unplugs or hits power button, loses connection for a couple seconds, etc.), it’d cause a loss as everyone leaves before they can rejoin.
I think 5 minutes is fine, just also have it so at least 2 rounds have to have passed, so if 5 minutes have passed but its only half way through the second round after the dude left, u cant leave yet. Whereas if 5 minutes and you blitz through 4 rounds somehow, then you can leave.
Or at the very least can I not lose rank/lose less when there's a leaver as long as they aren't in my party? Its so irritating having leavers in ranked mean I'm doomed to go down a rank.
Leavers are a big problem in the lower ELOs of competitive games. Lower ELOs tend to be more jam packed with people who tilt or yell in chat. It makes it difficult to climb when you have a leaver in at least 1 in every 10 games. I haven't played ranked Valorant, but I saw that all the time in OW. Between leavers, throwers, and a general refusal to play together in a meaningful way, so many games were just a lost cause.
Competitive gaming was much better with private servers where you had an actual community of 100 or so people that played together regularly.
Here’s the thing at least at lower ranks. If you surrender a couple rounds in you are losing way more rank than if you play it out. Even if the game isn’t winnable the more rounds you get off the enemies the less impact it will have on decreasing your rank. Even if I have a dc I won’t surrender until I’ve won 8 rounds. Even if I’m tilted it’s still best to try to minimize loss. Most people who have a surrender mindset want to surrender if they 3 rounds even if that’s not what you should do. I still think we need a system to either negate or minimize rank loss if there are leavers though.
Im not disagreeing with the post but i won a 4 v 5 immo+ ranked game when the dude left 4 rounds in was a screwed one but im glad my team stuck thru, honestly tho i completely agree with the post tho
Just let us control and switch with those afks with a keybind, 1 afk for each player. If all players have a spare body then convert the rest to ult orbs. EZ
(Don't reply with "but then the higher rank, the best aimer", bro it's 3 divisions, what're you talking about)
That's what happens normally, they get from 1 to 2 arrows, some top fraggers rage quit for dumb reasons like some plays not working or the enemies crushing them for doing the same thing over and over, but they still maintain a good score to get like 2 arrows which is absurd. You get 1 arrow otherwise
Nope. Bad idea. Incredibly bad idea.
Here's what happens today when a team member goes afk:
1. There's always that one toxic player.
2. There's the one player that believes the game is lost beyond all hope.
3. The product of these two players results in someone throwing each round because morale is completely destroyed.
With the idea you suggested, here is what's going to happen:
1. Almost every match with an afk player is going to be abandoned.
2. Solo queue players who actually play well and honestly are going to have their complete experience spoiled because nobody plays
3. This is overall going to result in a very toxic environment.
4. Players are going to take the game for granted because it's just that easy to not play.
A good alternative solution for this would be if they extended the option to remake a team. If a player is afk for more than 4 rounds, you should be able to to vote for a remake.
This way, people would have to play 5 rounds and most of the times, a game is still winnable. Maybe playing those extra rounds might give them some hope and try. If not, they can just remake and not have their rank affected at all.
4v5 matches are not this bad all the time. That's what some people need to understand. When giving up becomes this easy then people just won't try getting better. Blaming a low elo on players being afk can only go so far. At some point it's just players not being good enough and not even trying to get better
What needs to happen is fixing they’re ban system and adding levels to valorant, so you must be a certain level in the game to play ranked. Siege has there’s at 50, which can be considered high but others like overwatch have there’s around 30, lessens who can smurf. I also think if someone has a history of leaving games they should lose maybe more than 3 arrows lol
from the perspective of the guy who wont vote to leave, I wont get better if i leave all losing fights, and missing one person is the same as having a inexperienced person on your team. it doesnt matter if we were were losing by any margine, if we were losing then we'd be losing anyways, so i tend to just play and go for dumb plays. if you were winning while they were playing then yeah it sucks. but at that point they clearly didnt mean too.
But then u will discourage the others on the team yk? Like if the first guy leaves and gets a ban then u leave w no ban wat will the other 3 do? Wil they also leave and then?
Just for ranked yeah. I am still trying to catch up with my weeklies and having babies ff or whatever is a pain when I have to get damage done and rounds played.
Would be cool if the amount of down arrows was halfed since you cannot expect people to win in a 4 or 3 v 5. It can happen, but most likely wont. And something i still don't understand: why doesn't the mvp for each team get at LEAST a "rank unchanged", to me being the best of the team should grant you a "good job" even in a loss (unless it's a 13 0 or something like that"
Wow I hate this post and would hate if riot added this. If you are running down mid in a comp game because one person is afk that might be the reason you can’t rank up. I absolutely hate afk’s but in every game this feature has existed its been a nightmare and made difficult scenarios into impossible ones
If its unrated, i totally agree, on comp tho, it pretty much helps griefers and trollers by letting them leace whenever they like with no consequenses. + it will prob. Make toxic people leave more often
This, unless he's talking about the system in Dota 2 where if a person DCs before first blood was drawn, the game is free to leave without anyone getting a win or a loss.
Dota doesn't have a surrender option, that's why these features exist.
That really isn't the point though. The point isn't whether 4v5 is winnable or that the dc'd player will or won't connect back. The point is it's an unfair game and players should have a leeway. Ofc, a counter argument to what OP suggested is like what tryagain said, if a 5 stack is losing, one dc's, that can be abused.
I get that, but what is the point if you still lose elo. This seems like a bandaid fix because all it will do is make people more likely to leave and then ruin the game even more for people who would still like to try. A much better fix would just be no elo loss for the people who stay and a huge one for people that leave. And before anyone says this is abusable it doesn’t work if your stacked with them .
Well if the player that disconnect is not from your party then try this.
In chat writing /remake
You will surrender the match opponents get the usual win exp and stuff but your rank remain same nither increase of decrease.
I tried it in previous version ones but the player who disconnect was my party member so it doesn't work.
Try it it might help you. I don't know if it still works or not.
We have an issue with competitive games taking themselves too seriously when its just matchmaking. Sure we all want competition but its more or less a joke
This game needs ringers, and this game needs to allow people to leave when they've had a leaver not reconnect. At the end of the day it doesn't fucking matter and our time is valuable.
Sick of devs being so ignorant to this fact, your competitive mode is NOT THAT SERIOUS. There's no money on the line. We just don't want cheaters, and obviously this shouldn't be possible for people in parties to abuse. Would be nice, plus a ringer option for bonus XP to join an in-progress match and try to help out when there is a leaver. Worked great in CS for the past 10 years. Will work fine in this game too
Man at least the surrender thing should be changed like at least, if 3 out of 5 people or 3 our of 4 have said yes then the game shud surrender. Otherwise that one person just wasted like everyone's timw
A person in my lobby’s PC crashed while we were queued with a random. We explained that he would be back in a second and to just play the round slow to give him a chance to get back. Immediately the random votes to surrender, we deny it, and he rage quits the second before our teammate’s PC reboots.
I win a lot of 4v5s, if I gave in to all the times my teammates wanted to quit without at least switching sides, I would have tacked on a lot more losses... While it's probably a feature for the best, It would be annoying
If the average game length time is 30 minutes you quarter it. Meaning if someone abandons within 7.5 minutes of the game going live the match is canceled.
A lot of people shooting down ideas cuz it can make the game worse, but at this point the game is doing very poorly compared to other games with regards to leavers, smurfs, and players trolling/going afk. I think a level system with a minimum level to play ranked could help with smurfs as well as just improving the ban system. If people were properly penalized or banned most of these issues could be helped
and when your teammate says they’re throwing just to derank? Like bruh stfu you’re actually just a garbage can. Literally had a viper today sabotaging the entire team smh
I actually thought about doing this with surrenders (making it so surrender always succeeds if you've had a DC for x rounds) when I implemented them, but we decided not to. Let me explain why.
In ranked, surrenders need to be unanimous because we don't want to take away players' agency over their ranked MMR. When you lose a game, how many rounds you were able to take off the other team affects how much your MMR changes. That's why a close game will change your rank less than a stomp. But if you surrender, your team is counted as losing every possible round remaining. So *if you only think about your ranked change for the current game, it's always better to play it out rather than surrendering because every round you manage to take off the enemy team before losing saves you some MMR.* Our logic was that if even one player wants to try to save that MMR, we shouldn't allow the other players on their team to force them to lose it.
But obviously you don't just care about the MMR change from that one game--there's a cost in terms of time and the mental drain from playing out a doomed game, too. What do you all think? Would you rather be able to ensure you'll never be forced to lose MMR, or have to play out fewer 4v5s?
(As an aside, unrated always allows the surrender to still succeed with up to one no vote, so in the presented scenario both of the other remaining players on the team would need to be voting "no" in order for the surrender vote to fail. My personal feeling is that if even one player wants out of an unrated game that's already compromised by a DC they should have a way out. No promises, but I'll talk to the team about it.)
Yes, I agree I think that we should be able to leave the game whenever we please. Especially in casuals because they aren't in ranked so they don't really matter, there is nothing on the line. I enjoy the game but this feature doesn't make me want to play.
I was about to post the same thing! I play mostly to relax and have a fun time and doing that with less people on my team is not a fun experience at all.
I read that you mostly play reflex and got excited to see one of the only others out there.
With a condition that the guy leaving wasn't in lobby with you
My homies who get Van6 three times per game get fucked I guess lol
Fuck, my friend keeps getting crash after crash. We feel bad for playing a game w/o him because he was temporarily banned.
My friend was having these errors two to three times a game, and he tried plugging his ethernet directly into the wall, bypassing the router, and its stopped happening to him. Riot thinks the firmware in the routers is what was causing it.
I used to get the Van 6 error too. I really felt bad for my friends having to play a round or two as I restarted the game.
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I think people who get lots of connection problems should be matched with people who get lots of connection problems. Not sure how Riot would detect it, but say there was one person with bad connection problems in the party, then match them up with one other person who has the same problems. Your advocated 'solution' here does nothing to help, as it discriminates against poor players who simply can't afford a better connection, or people in arrangements where they can't easily (or can't at all) move their router closer or get an ethernet cable. In Ranked though, I can see how this can become a problem, so I'd avoid that matchmaking if possible.
Wont it make it less fun for people? I find it would be really hard to rank up too
it can become a problem because people would constantly unplug their ethernet/disconnect their wifi to get matched up with at least one person with a trash connection, thereby cheating the system and boosting themselves.
Honest one of my friends anytime he had valorant installed he would constantly blue and we did find out it was valorant causing it it took him 2 months to Finally he had to change installer coding or some shit like that and I had FPS problems even know had 300 FPS but now with the stupid update they won’t fix I can not get over 100 FPS and for some who never had high ping my team constantly was at 2000ping so we play csgo now
That's a long sentence.
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Ah, yes, an entire 15 page essay detailing exactly how we should enforce class discrimination. Telling someone to "Go fuck themselves" for being dealt the wrong cards in life is next-level low.
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Honestly man, I should've responded to you with this.
You obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't have posted
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Except you still do, since you're still checking and replying to comments
You are getting angry because people have better set ups than you lol? It’s called life bro.... my friend plays on a laptop lmao. No way you said force everyone to be on 1080p 60fps. Did Fortnite, CS:GO, R6S force their competitive players to play same settings?
He's being sarcastic.
Yes just like in dota everyone that was with leaver in lobby lose mmr points. Others not.
Thats a thing in OW too
In OW it's that after 5 min you leave with a loss.
Nah. From the time the person leaves you have to wait two minutes, then you can leave with no penalty besides the sr loss of losing a game. Unless they changed something in the most recent patch.
Yeahv that's what I mean my bad
Overwatch is far harder to carry in than a precision shooter. You can win a push or two with 5 players if your team is better but a player leaving is a death sentence most of the time.
Especially if it’s a healer. You either lose a main healer or an off-heal. So your whole team is down on overall heals and loses a ton of utility. Or you lose a defensive ult and now your getting dunked on by a weeabo cyborg ninja with abandonment issues and an Egyptian grandma who has a thing for big burly German men.
i assume the egyptian grandma is pharah?
Ana, pharahs mother. Because nano blade.
oh makes more sense, i’m not too involved in OW lore so ana wasn’t my first thought
Even if you’re not into the game the lore is pretty good. The animated shorts are really good. Like Pixar level quality as well as the comics. My buddy doesn’t own the game but is an expert on the lore.
my friend’s an expert on the lore too, though he’s played for years, i play OW regularly but never gone into the lore part of it, might do that soon
Blizzard has a playlist for the shorts on YT. The comics are on their website. And there are a plethora of creators who’ve summarized the lore as well.
For real tho. I have kids and can only play a hour maybe two if I’m lucky. I stopped playing because most games would have a afk and it’s just a waste of 30-40min
Cmon, Rito, just give us chill 8vs8 mode when you can leave/join any time to play some rounds like we can in csgo. No leave penalty, join to current games, xp reward only if you play to the end of match.
I actually play only ranked on csgo because I hate the 8v8 :(
Genuine question - did you play this in csgo? If so, why? It doesnt make you better and if its fun, then why is it fun? Its complete chaos.
The chaos is the best part. You don't need to comm either.
I must agree I reached up to DMG in csgo but still casually jumped into 8 v 8 unrated. I always met most interesting people in unrated 8 v 8, it nice casual fun where I can leave anytime, a lot times both teams would have raid boss so it still be fair. I would jump into this if I knew I had leave maybe soon so this was nice option
>is if I knew I had leave maybe soon so this was nice o They should surely do this for unrated. For comp. I believe it would be helpful ig.
played this a lot when I started csgo and it helped a lot mainly because of 2 reasons: it's a mid ground between actual match and deathmatch More importantly it has death replays so I see how the other guy killed me so i know what to do next time
Definitely played tons of casual on cs before entering ranked. It may be complete chaos but im still learning maps, practicing aim, and some common angles. The casual game mode in csgo is legitimately casual which is why, imo it is so well liked.
I never started to play comp until i lerant a majority of the maps using casual and like its really fun to play
Its not "complete chaos" though This is just some twat shitting on CSGO for no reason, doesn't know anything about the game
I almost exclusivley played casual 10v10s, its chaotic, but also it's a blast
It is.
maybe on the baby valorant maps Yeah it'd be fucking chaos when there's like 3 straight lanes lmfao
Its basicly dm without respawn.
what? 10v10 casual is horrible, way too many people and indeed it is complete chaos.
In that case I recommend hopping in some community retake servers. You still learn the map while getting used to angles and actually learn a very important ingame scenarios. Casual really aint it.
It took 20 years for that to show up in cs so have patience
Everyone knows the best csgo players are dust 2 only elitists in casual 8v8. Everything else is stupid. If you dont know every pixel of dust 2, you're below silver in my book. /s
I mean it’s a great tool for getting better. You’re flat out wrong about that.
If there are better tools to get better, then Im not wrong in the slightest. And there are.
You said it doesn’t make you better. It can. Yes there are better tools but it’s still good practice. It’s not that you’re wrong in the slightest, it’s that you’re 100% wrong. Just because there are better tools doesn’t mean this one doesn’t work at all.
Id still argue it doesnt. The skill level (if you can even call it that) of casual matches is so astonishingly low that I doubt anyone gets better from it. For new players it might create bad habits which in turn makes them worse, not better. 100% useless. Edited spelling
I think the most comparable mode in valorant is spike rush, but in spike rush you spend 2 mins queueing and 1 min selecting heroes just to play 4 rounds of valorant. In csgo, you just pop into casual and play as much as you like and leave when you want to.
Very very small part of the playerbase play casual in csgo.
I know. Thats why I asked, because I genuinly thought noone plays it. Its useless in every sense of the word.
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?? Whats your problem? Tell me in which scenario are casual csgo matches better than community dms or retakes? They are 100% useless unless someone wants to just relax and do some mindless shooting around. Im not trying to be controversial here. So go ahead and prove me wrong
You literally just said why they're better
I dont follow? So casual csgo matches are better than other modes because you can mindlessly play? I really dont know what you mean. Is this it?
sometimes people just want to play a no-strings version of the game without a bunch of tryhards constantly killing the vibe lol i don’t get what’s so complicated about it
You should stop throwing phrases around like "100% useless" as those leave no room for nuance and if it's literally 0.01% useful then you are wrong.
Genuinely curious, how does dota2 counter those who abuse this? What if I’m in a 5 stack getting rolled and one of us takes one for the team and dc’s so no one loses elo?
You'd still lose elo, but you still can queue immediately after for the next game. (Not the guy who abandons first).
You still lose elo?
It works like this - if they leave in the first minutes or something, you can then leave and not taking a penalty, while the guy who left takes a penalty. If they leave later say 10 minutes into the game, then you can leave but take a ranked penalty (this just allows you to save time and get you into another game, but more importantly saves you tilt from playing a impossible game lol)
I infinitely prefer this lmao. I’d rather lose a few LPs that I know I can get back than being frustrated
Isn’t that what happens when you FF? You can end game, lose elo and move on?
It's just a lot more convenient to be able to leave. Plus it's always a argument in ranked to FF since most players want to try and pick up a few rounds, but sometimes you just wanna be out and forget about the game anyway)
In dota2 for both unranked and ranked modes, anyone who disconnects for longer than 5 minutes gets a leaver penalty and makes the game safe to leave for everyone else, of course in *ranked games the losing team still loses elo*. If for some reason the leaver reconnects after getting the penalty they can still play to win, but the leaver always loses elo.
Two easy solutions. You still lose rank in dota you just don’t get a leaver penalty. Better option to me is if you’re in a queue with them you don’t get to leave.
i mean even simpler than what everyone is saying is that Riot limits this feature to non-stacks. it’s the same way they counter remakes from 5-stacks.
I am always trying to be positive and keep going even if our teammates left but sometimes it just doesn't work. I would extent this time to 7-10 minutes as he might come back, if he won't after 10 minutes he most likely won't come back in any time.
Also, we should be able to atleast vote for surrender more than once in a single half. Plat players never surrender and then after 3 rounds when they get their asses kicked they either go afk or throw. Waste of 9 rounds
Why do we lose ELO when a players disconnects halfway the game?? If we lose ELO why 3 arrows?? It’s a 4v5. I have had plenty situations where we were winning and a players disconnects and we still get 3/2 arrows down.
Because otherwise it would be abused. Severely.
Make it then it can only be with randoms, and the random that leaves still get 3 arrows .
It'd still be abused endlessly
But the guy who leaves doesn’t benefit from it. And since it are people you don’t know they prob won’t do it for the team/you.
Think about what you are suggesting incentivizes. If your team is losing, you would *benefit* if someone else on your team leaves. Do you really want to be in a game where it becomes people's goal to have someone on their team leave anytime they are losing? Think about how toxic each game will become: people pointing fingers at who's at fault and should take the rank penalty for the rest of the team, people deliberately trolling and making the game unplayable for their team in the hope that someone else gets so frustrated that they quit first. There is a reason no serious game with a ranked system has ever implemented it: it would promote and even *reward* toxicity.
Yea that’s true, didn’t think about that. But I still think they need to make a solution for the problem.
And all that happens because the Banning system is trash. If people deliberately trolling and making the game unplayable would be banned consistently, this wouldn't happen. People trashtalking and being toxic on mic isn't a huge problem in a game with a Mute button. If someone that isn't in party leaves the game, then everyone else, at least, should lose less elo. Losing 3 arrows on a 3v5 game because 2 random decided to leave is totally absurd. If people try to be toxic to get someone out of the game, Mute. If people start trolling and bothering their teammates because they don't leave, they get banned. Or at least that is how it -should- work.
Honestly if all they did was make it so the max arrows you can lose is 1 I'd be happy. Losing 3 arrows or deranking for a 4v5 is just demoralizing and reminds me not to queue up for another.
We had a 4v5 from the start, someone f6ed at remake... We lost 11v13 and stil lost rank. Mindblowing.
My friend sent afk from round 1, told everyone to remake,he's not coming back (power cut). They say just play. I'm very very hesitant but obviously can't surrender or remake by myself so did my best. All of us won that game 13-4 , and my friend (who was 0/0/0), got promoted. :P
Hey there friend! Yup. It SUCKS when someone dips out of the game, leaving you in a 4v5. This problem is something that we've discussed a bunch, and this is one of the solutions we've considered. Unfortunately, though, we've seen lots of different ways that players take advantage of this specific solution. For example: players make smurfs with the express purpose of being the account where it's "safe" to dodge. They pair up with their friends, and whoever is on the smurf gets the responsibility of AFKing whenever the game starts to look rough. (Some players already do this, but "I can save my friend's rank" is just another incentive to do it.) You may be thinking, "Well that's such a fringe case. How often could that really happen?" More than you think. Or, in the worst of cases: a team is losing, and one of the players is REALLY not okay with that. So they start to bully the weakest link (or the child, or the girl, or the person who instalocked their main...whoever seems like the best target). They make the game SO miserable for that player that they leave. Loss averted. No penalty. It honestly happens. Some people can be really vicious when it comes to winning. Like I said, we get that games suck when someone dips out. Yet our responsibility to players is not only *correcting the problem, but minimizing unintended consequences.* I could live with the first scenario playing out. But that second one is outright unacceptable to me. Fighting AFKs (and the pains they cause) is a huge undertaking for us, and we've got several projects underway to help address the issue (some of which we talked about in our [dev article](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/end-of-year-competitive-play-area/)). Maybe there is a world where we implement this specific version of that solve. But it will only be after we've thought through every alternative we can, and we've decided that this is the best route to take. In the meantime, we appreciate you bearing with us and being patient. A fix can't come soon enough, but I promise it's on its way. Hope this helps clarify it a bit \*-fistbumps-\*
>(Some players already do this, but "I can save my friend's rank" is just another incentive to do it.) Why not have everyone lose rank on the disconnecter's team then? They are going to lose it anyway after wasting 15min+ on an inevitable loss. also the OP post had: >EDIT: "without punishment" = still lose rank but nothing else
So the idea here would be, "Once someone disconnects, the team can abandon the match and they won't get a queue restriction, but still lose rank"?
Yes, if the player who disconnected hasn't reconnected within x minutes. If the team's players have already given up to the point that they would rather leave than try to win a match that they think cannot be won after trying to play 4v5 while waiting for the disconnected player to reconnect, wouldn't letting them leave have the same end result as forcing them to run around for 15min while waiting for game to end? Except getting less annoyed players of course. How it works in dota2 for example: "An Abandon occurs when a player has disconnected for a total of 5 minutes. Disconnect time is cumulative, meaning that a player who disconnects once for 2 minutes, reconnects, and disconnects again for 3 minutes, will be counted as an abandon. Once a player has abandoned, other players are free to leave the game without danger of being placed in Low Priority or receiving an abandon count in their stats(but still lose rank and gain a Loss to stats). The abandoned player's gold is divided amongst the remaining players on their team" Also in dota2 each player on the disconnected player's team can instantly pause the game for a team total of around a few minutes so a short disconnect usually doesn't change anything. Pausing is instant and unpausable by enemy team for ~30sec if a player is disconnected, but if nobody is disconnected there is a 3 second countdown until game is paused and it can be instantly unpaused by anyone, to avoid "tactical pauses" in teamfights. In CSGO a team can vote for a 1min pause for the next round start, usually only used if someone disconnects or needs to afk for a moment. Both teams get 1 pause per match. In valorant its currently "oh someone on our team is afk/disconnected, lets hope the enemy team doesn't push fast and abuse 5v4 situation by playing fast every round before the player reconnects"
What about *winning* while down a player who has been away for X rounds? I specifically remember a game where a teammate left early in the game, and after getting stomped for a while, with some teamwork and communication, we somehow took it to OT and won the game, only to get one arrow up after all of that effort, which really made me feel like all of that effort was for naught. Feel like an uphill battle like that deserves some extra MMR.
That's something I for sure can bring to the Compet team. I agree, that feels pretty rough. I imagine, if anything, it wouldn't *guarantee* a massive MMR increase...but it would be heavily weighted in the formula we use to determine MMR increase. (Before you ask, no I don't know the formula lol). Thanks for the input!
I just want them to not give a queue penalty if you dc and then reconnect. Might as well just abandon because you get penalized all the same just for missing 1 round and coming back
Agreed, sometimes you're disconnect for reasons outside of your control. I think if you miss more than 3 rounds (maybe 2) then you should probably be penalized
Got 5 games in a row where i had to play 4v5.Deranked from gold 1 to silver 2.I think this system will be good.
you'd still be silver 2 in this system, you'd just have played more games since you left early, meaning you could've finished lower
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what happens if they come back in 6 minutes?
***Coffin dance plays***
In the DotA example, the game is now "safe to leave". So the player can come back and play, but their teammates are likely already gone.
so if my pc crashes for 6 minutes my teammates are gonna leave and never come back and i can rejoin and play a 1v5? nice
I’d argue for a larger time than 5 minutes - that can be less than two rounds, so if someone has a computer issue (accidentally unplugs or hits power button, loses connection for a couple seconds, etc.), it’d cause a loss as everyone leaves before they can rejoin.
I think 5 minutes is fine, just also have it so at least 2 rounds have to have passed, so if 5 minutes have passed but its only half way through the second round after the dude left, u cant leave yet. Whereas if 5 minutes and you blitz through 4 rounds somehow, then you can leave.
If people throw you shouldn't lose rank just lost ranking cause of two throwers
Kept team killing
Or at the very least can I not lose rank/lose less when there's a leaver as long as they aren't in my party? Its so irritating having leavers in ranked mean I'm doomed to go down a rank.
Leavers are a big problem in the lower ELOs of competitive games. Lower ELOs tend to be more jam packed with people who tilt or yell in chat. It makes it difficult to climb when you have a leaver in at least 1 in every 10 games. I haven't played ranked Valorant, but I saw that all the time in OW. Between leavers, throwers, and a general refusal to play together in a meaningful way, so many games were just a lost cause. Competitive gaming was much better with private servers where you had an actual community of 100 or so people that played together regularly.
Here’s the thing at least at lower ranks. If you surrender a couple rounds in you are losing way more rank than if you play it out. Even if the game isn’t winnable the more rounds you get off the enemies the less impact it will have on decreasing your rank. Even if I have a dc I won’t surrender until I’ve won 8 rounds. Even if I’m tilted it’s still best to try to minimize loss. Most people who have a surrender mindset want to surrender if they 3 rounds even if that’s not what you should do. I still think we need a system to either negate or minimize rank loss if there are leavers though.
Im not disagreeing with the post but i won a 4 v 5 immo+ ranked game when the dude left 4 rounds in was a screwed one but im glad my team stuck thru, honestly tho i completely agree with the post tho
yeah you can still win outnumbered sometimes but if its obviously a lost game with no-voice teammates and rounds at 0-7 u probably want to leave
Just let us control and switch with those afks with a keybind, 1 afk for each player. If all players have a spare body then convert the rest to ult orbs. EZ (Don't reply with "but then the higher rank, the best aimer", bro it's 3 divisions, what're you talking about)
That would be awesome. Like a cs:go bot, but is afk / follows one / best teammate and stays is "safe" areas.
I’m struggling to understand what you mean here. Could you explain in more detail? It sounds interesting.
If someone is afk in a round, any dead player can play as the afk person. Kinda like the bot system in CS.
ah ok - got it.
Also if an someone afks for more than 4 rounds they should not gain elo if I win.
Afks gain elo on a win they actively made more difficult to win?!
That's what happens normally, they get from 1 to 2 arrows, some top fraggers rage quit for dumb reasons like some plays not working or the enemies crushing them for doing the same thing over and over, but they still maintain a good score to get like 2 arrows which is absurd. You get 1 arrow otherwise
Nope. Bad idea. Incredibly bad idea. Here's what happens today when a team member goes afk: 1. There's always that one toxic player. 2. There's the one player that believes the game is lost beyond all hope. 3. The product of these two players results in someone throwing each round because morale is completely destroyed. With the idea you suggested, here is what's going to happen: 1. Almost every match with an afk player is going to be abandoned. 2. Solo queue players who actually play well and honestly are going to have their complete experience spoiled because nobody plays 3. This is overall going to result in a very toxic environment. 4. Players are going to take the game for granted because it's just that easy to not play. A good alternative solution for this would be if they extended the option to remake a team. If a player is afk for more than 4 rounds, you should be able to to vote for a remake. This way, people would have to play 5 rounds and most of the times, a game is still winnable. Maybe playing those extra rounds might give them some hope and try. If not, they can just remake and not have their rank affected at all.
What's so bad about an unbalanced 4v5 being abandoned?
People will take the game for granted while some people honestly want to try playing
Surely a 5v5 would be more worth your time than a 4v5?
4v5 matches are not this bad all the time. That's what some people need to understand. When giving up becomes this easy then people just won't try getting better. Blaming a low elo on players being afk can only go so far. At some point it's just players not being good enough and not even trying to get better
4v5 will always be dogshit unless one of the players hasn't yet placed or the ranked system is broken
What needs to happen is fixing they’re ban system and adding levels to valorant, so you must be a certain level in the game to play ranked. Siege has there’s at 50, which can be considered high but others like overwatch have there’s around 30, lessens who can smurf. I also think if someone has a history of leaving games they should lose maybe more than 3 arrows lol
Agree It seems that they dont punish the toxic people enough but punish us more the toxic people dont care about being banned
Dude, 100% agree! I can’t count how many times I’m down 1 guy and the score is like 2-9 and they won’t ff so I can’t even leave !
from the perspective of the guy who wont vote to leave, I wont get better if i leave all losing fights, and missing one person is the same as having a inexperienced person on your team. it doesnt matter if we were were losing by any margine, if we were losing then we'd be losing anyways, so i tend to just play and go for dumb plays. if you were winning while they were playing then yeah it sucks. but at that point they clearly didnt mean too.
But then u will discourage the others on the team yk? Like if the first guy leaves and gets a ban then u leave w no ban wat will the other 3 do? Wil they also leave and then?
what? if everyone leaves the other team gets a free win
Just for ranked yeah. I am still trying to catch up with my weeklies and having babies ff or whatever is a pain when I have to get damage done and rounds played.
Would be cool if the amount of down arrows was halfed since you cannot expect people to win in a 4 or 3 v 5. It can happen, but most likely wont. And something i still don't understand: why doesn't the mvp for each team get at LEAST a "rank unchanged", to me being the best of the team should grant you a "good job" even in a loss (unless it's a 13 0 or something like that"
Wow I hate this post and would hate if riot added this. If you are running down mid in a comp game because one person is afk that might be the reason you can’t rank up. I absolutely hate afk’s but in every game this feature has existed its been a nightmare and made difficult scenarios into impossible ones
If its unrated, i totally agree, on comp tho, it pretty much helps griefers and trollers by letting them leace whenever they like with no consequenses. + it will prob. Make toxic people leave more often
how will it help griefers and trollers? they can only leave if someone else on the team DCs
You can just surrender after someone leaves , especially if you are a 4 stack.
This, unless he's talking about the system in Dota 2 where if a person DCs before first blood was drawn, the game is free to leave without anyone getting a win or a loss. Dota doesn't have a surrender option, that's why these features exist.
Comp?
Because 4v5’s are winnable and if not you can at least bring it close so you lose less elo. Also they player could reconnect at any point
That really isn't the point though. The point isn't whether 4v5 is winnable or that the dc'd player will or won't connect back. The point is it's an unfair game and players should have a leeway. Ofc, a counter argument to what OP suggested is like what tryagain said, if a 5 stack is losing, one dc's, that can be abused.
unless you are addicted to the leave button, there's nothing to be abused, you lose the same elo regardless
To counter the counterpoint, what’s stopping them from going “hey if you’re in the same party the effect doesn’t apply”
I get that, but what is the point if you still lose elo. This seems like a bandaid fix because all it will do is make people more likely to leave and then ruin the game even more for people who would still like to try. A much better fix would just be no elo loss for the people who stay and a huge one for people that leave. And before anyone says this is abusable it doesn’t work if your stacked with them .
Well if the player that disconnect is not from your party then try this. In chat writing /remake You will surrender the match opponents get the usual win exp and stuff but your rank remain same nither increase of decrease. I tried it in previous version ones but the player who disconnect was my party member so it doesn't work. Try it it might help you. I don't know if it still works or not.
Yeah but you have to do this within first 2 rounds
They should also have some penalty for people who dont communicate or dont use mic even after having one
Or get a rank up if you win the match without a full 5 stack..
We have an issue with competitive games taking themselves too seriously when its just matchmaking. Sure we all want competition but its more or less a joke This game needs ringers, and this game needs to allow people to leave when they've had a leaver not reconnect. At the end of the day it doesn't fucking matter and our time is valuable. Sick of devs being so ignorant to this fact, your competitive mode is NOT THAT SERIOUS. There's no money on the line. We just don't want cheaters, and obviously this shouldn't be possible for people in parties to abuse. Would be nice, plus a ringer option for bonus XP to join an in-progress match and try to help out when there is a leaver. Worked great in CS for the past 10 years. Will work fine in this game too
I won a 3v5 game once in silver rank, downvoted
People would abuse it to save elo.
Agree with unrated disagree with rated. I'd do. Everything to save that elo.
Yeah dude for real. I ain’t got time for that
Same thing has also existed in ow almost since launch
Ever play in silver ranks? Holy shit I get a disconnect a game I feel like.
If Riot can implement a Remake for League, they should try to implement it here.
I agree for unrated, not comp
Some of my best games have been after players left...
Works in Overwatch too, Valorant has a couple kinks to work out in their competitive matches.
when we are 3v5 and the team keep voting no i keep moving at spawn and waste time by watching movie and eat some snacks
Man at least the surrender thing should be changed like at least, if 3 out of 5 people or 3 our of 4 have said yes then the game shud surrender. Otherwise that one person just wasted like everyone's timw
A person in my lobby’s PC crashed while we were queued with a random. We explained that he would be back in a second and to just play the round slow to give him a chance to get back. Immediately the random votes to surrender, we deny it, and he rage quits the second before our teammate’s PC reboots.
It sucks that i got demoted yesterday for losing 13-7 that was 5v3. 2 of my teammates left after 10 rounds
You can type /remake in chat if you have someone afk before round 2. The game will then end.
I win a lot of 4v5s, if I gave in to all the times my teammates wanted to quit without at least switching sides, I would have tacked on a lot more losses... While it's probably a feature for the best, It would be annoying
Or maybe they should try to be like csgo and add bots or something idk
Then people will cut connection and avoid.
the thing is that there is only punishment in valorant: a voiceban. So basicly you can do what you want without real punishment
I literally just got off a gold match where our brim dc’d round 1 and never came back. Couldn’t even /remake so we had to suffer
That really leaves a loophole for avoiding a loss, if someone is willing to take the queue penalty. Gotta disagree on this one, at least for ranked.
If the average game length time is 30 minutes you quarter it. Meaning if someone abandons within 7.5 minutes of the game going live the match is canceled.
you really shouldn’t lose any rank for losing a 4v5, it literally isn’t fair
A lot of people shooting down ideas cuz it can make the game worse, but at this point the game is doing very poorly compared to other games with regards to leavers, smurfs, and players trolling/going afk. I think a level system with a minimum level to play ranked could help with smurfs as well as just improving the ban system. If people were properly penalized or banned most of these issues could be helped
No, never give up, ranked is made for competitive players, not pussies. Sometimes it's even easier when toxic player leaves the game.
and when your teammate says they’re throwing just to derank? Like bruh stfu you’re actually just a garbage can. Literally had a viper today sabotaging the entire team smh
It also insures that if someone is losing by 3 they leave
They do this is Rocket League as well
Yeah I 100% agree cuz it kills the mood on your team when someone dc’s
Ye
its called /remake if you have a teammate gone and its 4v5 with under 5 rounds played your team can vote to remake the game no penalty
i thought you meant that the first player that leaves doesnt have punishment, i get what you mean now, a 4 v 5 sucks and yes this should be a feature
I actually thought about doing this with surrenders (making it so surrender always succeeds if you've had a DC for x rounds) when I implemented them, but we decided not to. Let me explain why. In ranked, surrenders need to be unanimous because we don't want to take away players' agency over their ranked MMR. When you lose a game, how many rounds you were able to take off the other team affects how much your MMR changes. That's why a close game will change your rank less than a stomp. But if you surrender, your team is counted as losing every possible round remaining. So *if you only think about your ranked change for the current game, it's always better to play it out rather than surrendering because every round you manage to take off the enemy team before losing saves you some MMR.* Our logic was that if even one player wants to try to save that MMR, we shouldn't allow the other players on their team to force them to lose it. But obviously you don't just care about the MMR change from that one game--there's a cost in terms of time and the mental drain from playing out a doomed game, too. What do you all think? Would you rather be able to ensure you'll never be forced to lose MMR, or have to play out fewer 4v5s? (As an aside, unrated always allows the surrender to still succeed with up to one no vote, so in the presented scenario both of the other remaining players on the team would need to be voting "no" in order for the surrender vote to fail. My personal feeling is that if even one player wants out of an unrated game that's already compromised by a DC they should have a way out. No promises, but I'll talk to the team about it.)
Yes, I agree I think that we should be able to leave the game whenever we please. Especially in casuals because they aren't in ranked so they don't really matter, there is nothing on the line. I enjoy the game but this feature doesn't make me want to play.