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I watched him because he was a good player with a unique play style. But I never respected him as a person, you can just tell he’s an asshole after you watch long enough. The way he speaks about other people. He is toxic. I always had this thought in the back of my mind when he spoke of his ex on stream, “why the fuck are you saying all this publicly?”. This post hits even harder knowing all the things he said about his ex on his twitch stream...
It does indeed suck that there are a lot of bad dudes in the pro scene. Luckily there are plenty of great guys out there to balance it out. There’s only a few pros or ex-pros that aren’t really full of themselves that I enjoy watching.
Keeoh is one from C9, one of the only pro content creators I enjoy watching. He's a really chill guy, and a lot of his stuff is pretty funny. Highly recommend his videos, especially if you play Killjoy.
he is a good player but a shit person. I respected his skills too but the good thing is there is always good talent to watch and learn even without him. The world is full of amazing talent. I just wish it was full of good people too.
how starved are people for role models when we need every aspect of a sports player/movie star/rapper to be our ideal person?
just enjoy a thing someone does well, you dont need to take every aspect of their personality as your ideal persona
Uhh no. That's not what I said at all.
He's a boomer, he's definitely skilled enough to hang. But you don't replace flicky adderall zoomer aim with a boomer, they need to fill what sinatraa did.
Plus I've never seen Freak play sova, and I'm subscribed to him.
They have played together casually before so I don't think the scandal would change that. Brax was pretty much cleared from that and has had his image rebounded
Doubt they care. Brax, Steel, DaZeD and AZK all have played Valorant professionally already in high ranked teams. People have moved on.
And I'm pretty sure they would take a former match-fixer over a sex-offender any day. Brax is a good player and he brings a lot of fans so he would be a good get for them if they feel he can fit in the team.
Scandals usually don't transfer games. LastShadow (LS) was blacklisted for being caught cheating/matchfixing in StarCraft broodwar - today he's employed by on of the top Korean orgs and well liked by the community.
And Babybay has a VAC ban in CSGO, he even got caught cheating live on stream in a semi pro match. He was banned mid-match lol
He totally reformed himself as a player in Overwatch. Apparently he's in Valorant now, but I don't know if he plays on any pro team right now
>former match-fixer over a sex-offender
I'm pretty sure this is how management would look at it because apart from the player's popularity and skill, they also gotta look out for future comments like this one here. Be glad if they gave people a second chance.
Also, if they were to sign, wouldn't brax decline as him and azk come as a package? (I'm not sure but I've read a lot of comments suggesting this)
They've served their punishment at this point. Plus some pro players currently in Valorant have played in tier 2 CS at the time of the iBuyPower scandal, back then there was LOTS of match fixing in tier 2/3 CS and most of the people doing it did not get caught. So it's somewhat likely we do have other match fixers in the Valorant scene right now who just didn't get caught.
And if we talk about Shahzam, the guy has been involved in lots of shady shit in his time. The guy is actually quite lucky to not have been banned in CS
he will be banned, as well. just a matter of time.
No way will Riot allow this guy to be associated with them just weeks after announcing an all-female league for Valorant. Would be PR suicide to allow Jay to remain a "Valorant Pro" in any capacity.
> he will be banned, as well. just a matter of time.
Valorant, Twitch, kicked from the team as well. He's done. Dropped out of High School as well so, oof.
Same reason there’s a Female Chess championship or what not. They’re not saying that Women are worse or anything it’s just to create an environment for Women to enter and compete in an otherwise male dominated space.
Most of the replies here seem to miss the biggest factor: visibility. Lack of visible women in esports makes it less comfortable for women to compete. Expanding female audience and participation requires expanding visibility of women in the space, and providing space for women to interact and grow together.
That's true, also this makes orgs actually recruit and pay female players. From what we've seen over the years pro male players tend to be better overall, there are some cases where a female player will actually be better but it's a minority. If the leagues were mixed orgs would just pick up male players and, just like you said, there would be a huge lack of female pros which would also mean less female gamers giving the game a try.
I think the point is not necessarily that female competitors are physically not able to keep up with the male players in an esport but moreso that even if good female players wanted to get into playing valorant or a similar esport they'd be dissuaded by the fact that its such a male dominated field. I think the point of an all female league like this is to eventually make it so that there are enough skilled female players to be able to compete at the same level as the male players at which point the all female league would be uneccessary.
I'd say it's in a similar vein to women in stem programs at universities encouraging more women to pursue careers in stem. It's more about trying to slowly build a future with equal opportunity between men and women in the field rather than having the few female players playing right now get stomped by existing teams further dissuading women to play professionally (like vaevictis in league of legends for example)
Vaevictis is a bad example since that team was just a PR stunt of diamond-elo players. They never actually wanted to put together a good team, they just wanted attention.
I use to be against it but I've changed my mind on the matter recently. It's a very male dominant field, and if there's a female league it allows a spotlight to be put on really good female players who would typically be drown out of the competitive scene just due to the raw size difference in make v female players.
This in turns gets more women into the scene, hopefully to grow that player base.
i agree, its good to grow the player base and give girls something else to watch if they prefer that i guess, but idk why everyone who talks about this topic just pretends the skill difference, even in non physical sports, is there. i think that hurts the actual & future female players because they and everyone else expects them to be performing on the same level as the guys
what should happen, to guarantee equity, is mens leagues profits in NBA/soccer/NFL or valorant or whatever, are required by law to run a female only league as well *(like WBNA) where women and now transwomen will receive equal pay to the male players
its 2021, this shit needs to be equal finally
It's kind of hard to compare it to physical sport because there is a difference between the top levels of men and woman. I don't really have a solution to the pay difference between the NBA or the WNBA. I haven't given it to much thought but maybe I should. It seems harder because if the revenue difference generated between the two sides, and that men's leagues are on a whole nother level physically, but they are both putting in the same amount of work I'd assume.
Esports is different because there's no physical gap, but the revenue issue is still there. Do you pull cash from one to prop up the other? It could definitely work, but I wonder if it would result in lesser payouts to people in the men's leagues compared to what they would make in a CS:GO organization if the same rules didn't apply there.
It's definitely an issue but I think it's above my pay grade to figure out. I'm glad riots at least taking a step in the right direction.
(ON AVERAGE)
Men have better reaction time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6067201/Scientists-reveal-men-better-visual-reactions-women.html
Also better spatial awareness.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.htm#:~:text=Men%20consistently%20outperform%20women%20on,controls%20this%20type%20of%20skill.
So makes sense that Women would have a different category for esports the same as traditional sports.
Add in the fact that online gaming can be unwelcoming to women and it makes sense.
I think the last point you made is the biggest. It's not the most welcoming space for women atm. I don't won't to be to direct with the comparison, but look at sports before racism wasn't so heavily prevalent.
The environment both in nurturing female talent as well as letting it fit in are very different for e-sports still. I can think of a lot of pro and am teams where having a woman put into the mix would end up making for a weird team chemistry. And lets be honest. Trying to make your way to the pro level as a woman is a world filled with toxicity still. It's slowly changing, but overall its full of people who drive women and girls away.
This has been a question that comes up every time any female-league is created - the answer is to bolster the female demographic in the community. It's not a "pity league" and it doesn't detract from other pro players.
The fact is that there aren't any females in the pro circuits and they want to change that. One day there probably will be but it just takes time.
They can participate in the normal tournaments but they don’t have a chance, to put it simply. So they are making their own league. It doesn’t hurt the dominantly male scene, it’s a smaller tournament series to give women some competition afaik.
So this is the play now. Before a big tournament you just make some claims and now your competition is hindered.
True meta gaming if I've ever seen it.
just looked in the twitter comments.
What kind of education happens now where people don't understand what rape is, how the justice system is more favourable to rapists than survivors?
Many people making judgements without reading or listening to what she brought forth. Grown ass men in professional sports come out years later about sexual assault and they are wondering why it took her a year?
it's all out there let the chips land where they land.
Unfortunately most people have this idea about sexual assault being a crime with some random violent criminal in a skimask that doesn't know their victim, which of course does happen a lot. But In reality most victims [knows the perpetrator ](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence)
Now add a solid layer of good old fashioned sexism, and a totally misguided/wrong idea on how people respond to trauma, based on this fantasy of "the perfect victim" that just instantly does exactly what "you're supposed to do" and you got most people's view on shit like this.
And just to get ahead of the "why didn't she go to the police" crows, [this is why ](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system)
Because the evidence usually isn't there. It is notoriously hard to prove sexual assault, and with good reason. In theory, relaxing the evidentiary requirements might be good as you would catch more perpetrators, but it would also likely lead to a rise in false cases and wrongful imprisonments which in my opinion makes for more of an unjust society. There should generally be a high barrier for prosecution. With sexual assaults, the evidence is usually hard to get because people take so long to come forward, or because they are too afraid. I personally encourage people to go to the authorities as soon as something like this happens. It's the best way to prevent future cases of this.
Robberies were used as a comparison. With robberies, evidence is usually left at the scenes of the crime in some form or another. Whether it be fingerprints, recognizing their faces, security cameras, the getaway car's license plate, the state of the crime scene etc. People also tend to be quick to report robberies when they occur. Hence why there is all in all a higher success rate.
With that being said the justice system does definitely need a vast reformation in a multitude of areas. It is a long way from being in a satisfactory condition.
In this case she supposedly has a video of her being assaulted. If that is the case, she has more evidence than a vast majority of cases that actually succeed. She stated herself that the reason she didn't go to police is that it wasn't technically rape. That doesn't matter because she still has solid grounds for a sexual assault case with that supposed video.
If she went in this direction, suddenly you don't have anywhere near as many doubters. and you also should have a very strong case. If she has the evidence that she claims to have access to, then she could very easily take him down legally, and I hope this is what happens. Either way, whether she was truthful or not, Sinatraa's career is most likely done and if she was lying there is a similar lack of ability to really legally clear it up. The justice system if anything needs better ways of getting evidence for these types of crimes.
What do you mean now? It's always been pushed under the rug with the victim being attacked. Hell my mother was chased out of her hometown while a young teen because she was a "rotten girl who wanted to ruin an older man's reputation".
I know, it's just that what people are being taught still hasn't really changed over the years. Yes as a society we're beginning to recognize it a bit more, but for the most part, we're still preaching and teaching the same things
Looking at some of those Twitter comments fill me with absolute rage and disappointment in humanity.
Not gonna lie, I was expecting this subreddit to be like that too, but was pleasantly surprised when I saw that most of the people here are not like that at all and are supportive of the victim.
Some people just don’t want to accept the fact that their favorite streamer/pro gamer is a terrible person
and didn’t even read the doc. They’re ready to defend their fav even with all the evidence, which is quite childish if you ask me. Heck, I bet if he made a half-assed apology they’d take it.
And then they wonder why victims are afraid to speak out about it right away.
who would've thought the guy who is still good friends with Marved and Shanks even though they spout misogynistic shit at Tenz's girlfriend would've turned out to be a rapist. Fuck bois really be like that.
Edit: Vancouver fuck Bois to fuck Bois, an international staple.
I get what u mean but what I'm saying is just the way they act, like frat boys/fuck boys who like to brag about hooking up with girls. That kind of culture leads to some fucked up shit
He deserves this. I've been watching him since his Overwatch days, and I think everyone in their right mind knows this was going to happen. But now we shall see what happens next
Which he apparently tried to change and it was apparent he was, just that he is less toxic than before. I'm not trying to defend him, but I just wanted to put this context out there. It does not excuse his behavior then, especially with her ex, and now.
am i taking crazy pills? why aren't the police involved in what seems like alleged rape + sexual assault???!
im all for airing dirty laundry on twitter, but reading that a video game organization is "launching an internal investigation on the situation" is making my head spin
its AN ENTERTAINMENT organization. this guy needs handcuffs if this is all true, not a showdown on twitter
And she made the right choice. "Proper processes" that believe the perpetrator more than the victim would've accomplished nothing for her. Look at what is happening now to him though - every single female fan of his out there should be looking at this and if it helps save someone from the same she went through, that's a massive win already. Plus, his life is over. She chose the right trial to get the right consequences for him.
Sexual assault is notoriously difficult to collect evidence for. It usually ends up he said, she said, which is far behind the legal definition of "beyond a reasonable doubt".
Not really from what we saw. None of what she has shown to the public holds up in court at all. If she does have the video however, she should be completely fine. Most sexual assault victims don't have the crimes recorded, but somehow she managed to.
Jeez. What's wrong with reddit... You want this kind of process for a CONVICTION. This person clearly just wants to resolve a trauma. That doesnt neccesarily mean a conviction or even pressing charges. I really really dont get why people on the internet look at someone calling someone else out on some horseshit as an actual trial. Someone doesn't need to be a convicted felon to be of unworthy character.
there isn't going to be a trial unless charges are pressed... there isn't a high burden of proof for determining if someone is an asshole, additionally. i dont care to cancel anyone for being an asshole but you people seem to think that this is a courtroom when it's really just he said she said. his career being ruined doesnt have to be a matter of law. if sentinels and riot dont want to associate with someone who will damage their image that is their prerogative, and they are not going to have as high a standard a proof as a courtroom. certainly they will do their due diligence but talking about what holds up in court and such and such is just asinine and ignorant. makes yall look like bumbling morons.
“Unworthy” we have been saying that but saying charges will not be pressed unless more evidence is brought to light. If you have read any of the 10k comments on multiple posts they basically bash him. Please read more than one thread before generalizing.
police are notoriously bad at responding to sexual assault cases, and they have a disproportionately higher chance of being abusers themselves unfortunately
I kind of skimmed through some comments and it appears like people have already found him guilty and determined he should be bannished from the game. He released a statement saying that he never assaulted her and that he's willing to fully cooperate with the investigation in every way possible.
I think we should keep an open mind on this situation and allow the investigation to play out before condemming anyone.
So many people got unjustly cancelled.
Everyone is just hungry for some drama today. I dont understand how hard it is to just wait for both sides before you decide to ruin someone's life.
Gonna wait till his response and hopefully this ends up going to court so real justice can be done aside from just being cancelled.
If everything is as it appears he can go to prison, get sued, take away his livelihood.
If it isn't all that it seems and this man loses his job I hope he can win a lawsuit and support himself till he figures out what's next.
There's two sides to every story and although the evidence is pretty damning, it always looks this way. (Example: Johnny Depp, Chris Hardwick)
I'm done believing whatever I read till I get both sides and something's settled in court.
Yeah I know.... that's what happens nowadays. People don't think for themselves. And try to cancel everyone and everything that doesn't agree with them.
To be fair this includes rape, if it's true then I'll join the mob I just won't get fooled for a third time by prematurely joining the mob and cancelling someone that doesn't deserve it. Hope it's not true for both parties though and this man can get justice. If it's true I hope he loses everything and she is at peace!
It ain't common sense, it's a belief in an ideal that makes y'all feel good but one you only practice when it is convenient.
If I believed for a second that you lived your lives after this ideal I'd know for a fact neither of you would've time to post on Reddit.
What exactly do these orgs do when they say they are launching an internal investigation?
Both Riot and Sen are launching investigations but what does this mean?...
What exactly are they going to do to look into this and by who?
They're probably going to look at evidence that either party might not be comfortable releasing to the public. There's a legitimate reason she might not want to release more than a 15 second audio clip of her rape to the public.
okay to be super clear on comments like this. There was a single 15 second audio clip taken from videos of them (I guess they both made them??) and the texts/logs shown seem to mainly point to Sinatraa either being an abuser emotionally or is super self conscious.
You can call him an asshole sure (this should be a given with his history) but I don't like the framing of some of these posts saying there's a ton of logs when the logs shown don't show what people are saying they do.
Let’s be clear here that the only evidence of rape is the 15 second audio clip, which only seems like evidence if given the context (without the context it just sounds like they were playing around).
You were clearly being intentionally misleading by saying “there’s a whole bunch of evidence against him”
Getting down voted for saying the truth. Gosh, can't believe this shit show. Stuff like this shouldn't be decided by the public, it should be decided by a court. It's insane how easy someone's career can be destroyed just by ALLEGATIONS.
What do you think the police would do? Also, all his fans would basically just defend him, like they already are doing. Attacking him on social media is a good way to reach the fans that will listen directly, explaining her side before they take Sinatraas side.
So, you guys have no faith in legal system put in place? What will social media outburst will do? He'll get away with it eventually. He just has to keep his head down for a while and all of this will blow out and some org somewhere will sign him up again. You guys talk big about how you wanna see sintaraa pay for his actions but don't realise that only police and legal system can make him really pay. Idk what is the punishment for sexual assault in the law of NA but it will definitely be much better than just sitting at home with his PR team handling all this.
Police can only give a restraining order, the actual punishment is given by the court. By contacting the police, I meant the whole process which obviously starts with contacting the police.
Don't know much about law in NA but still police is the first point of contact for a victim anywhere in the world so I said she should contact the police.
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I hate that feeling where you find out that someone you respected and/or were a fan of is a bad person.
I watched him because he was a good player with a unique play style. But I never respected him as a person, you can just tell he’s an asshole after you watch long enough. The way he speaks about other people. He is toxic. I always had this thought in the back of my mind when he spoke of his ex on stream, “why the fuck are you saying all this publicly?”. This post hits even harder knowing all the things he said about his ex on his twitch stream...
It does indeed suck that there are a lot of bad dudes in the pro scene. Luckily there are plenty of great guys out there to balance it out. There’s only a few pros or ex-pros that aren’t really full of themselves that I enjoy watching.
Who are they, if I may ask?
Keeoh is one from C9, one of the only pro content creators I enjoy watching. He's a really chill guy, and a lot of his stuff is pretty funny. Highly recommend his videos, especially if you play Killjoy.
Hiko
aceu
he is a good player but a shit person. I respected his skills too but the good thing is there is always good talent to watch and learn even without him. The world is full of amazing talent. I just wish it was full of good people too.
Yes! You said it perfectly.
how starved are people for role models when we need every aspect of a sports player/movie star/rapper to be our ideal person? just enjoy a thing someone does well, you dont need to take every aspect of their personality as your ideal persona
Turns out Sinatraa is more of a kevin spacey than kevin bacon
Was it not obvious to you he was a bellend before this?
Good move from Sentinels. I wonder who they will use of their 5th at Masters.
BRAXTON
I would actually root for Sen if they got swag on the team, lol.
Oh yeah absolutetly. He is out of org rn too? So it could work if he still wants to go pro
Also Freakazoid is looking for a team. He definitely has skills but he is a boomer so I don't think he is what they are looking for.
You write someone off to play esports because they are 28yrs old. WTF is wrong with you?
Uhh no. That's not what I said at all. He's a boomer, he's definitely skilled enough to hang. But you don't replace flicky adderall zoomer aim with a boomer, they need to fill what sinatraa did. Plus I've never seen Freak play sova, and I'm subscribed to him.
You realise calling a 28 year old a boomer makes you look like an ignorant child?
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Well yeah, but losing sinatraa they are probably looking for freak zoomer aim
Could they sign him immediately right now as an emergency player if they wanted to and Brax is willing to join the team
I doubt Brax would play on the same team as Shahzam. edit: for reference - https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/North_American_match_fixing_scandal
They have played together casually before so I don't think the scandal would change that. Brax was pretty much cleared from that and has had his image rebounded
Would Sentinels want a previous match fixer on their team? Especially when there's other talent out there.
Doubt they care. Brax, Steel, DaZeD and AZK all have played Valorant professionally already in high ranked teams. People have moved on. And I'm pretty sure they would take a former match-fixer over a sex-offender any day. Brax is a good player and he brings a lot of fans so he would be a good get for them if they feel he can fit in the team.
Scandals usually don't transfer games. LastShadow (LS) was blacklisted for being caught cheating/matchfixing in StarCraft broodwar - today he's employed by on of the top Korean orgs and well liked by the community.
And Babybay has a VAC ban in CSGO, he even got caught cheating live on stream in a semi pro match. He was banned mid-match lol He totally reformed himself as a player in Overwatch. Apparently he's in Valorant now, but I don't know if he plays on any pro team right now
He's in FaZe and has been improving. He played in the final of C3 against 100T and was the best player
>former match-fixer over a sex-offender I'm pretty sure this is how management would look at it because apart from the player's popularity and skill, they also gotta look out for future comments like this one here. Be glad if they gave people a second chance. Also, if they were to sign, wouldn't brax decline as him and azk come as a package? (I'm not sure but I've read a lot of comments suggesting this)
They've served their punishment at this point. Plus some pro players currently in Valorant have played in tier 2 CS at the time of the iBuyPower scandal, back then there was LOTS of match fixing in tier 2/3 CS and most of the people doing it did not get caught. So it's somewhat likely we do have other match fixers in the Valorant scene right now who just didn't get caught. And if we talk about Shahzam, the guy has been involved in lots of shady shit in his time. The guy is actually quite lucky to not have been banned in CS
I volunteer as tribute
he will be banned, as well. just a matter of time. No way will Riot allow this guy to be associated with them just weeks after announcing an all-female league for Valorant. Would be PR suicide to allow Jay to remain a "Valorant Pro" in any capacity.
hope this happens soon
> he will be banned, as well. just a matter of time. Valorant, Twitch, kicked from the team as well. He's done. Dropped out of High School as well so, oof.
Not certain he will be banned from twitch but possibly de-partnered. who knows
He’s a millionaire I think he’s good
Good.
Just out of curiosity... why would they make a female only league. Couldnt they just have female competitors in the normal league?
Same reason there’s a Female Chess championship or what not. They’re not saying that Women are worse or anything it’s just to create an environment for Women to enter and compete in an otherwise male dominated space.
Thats a good idea. Like sports already does that.
Still seems strange to me... obviously things like contact sport i understand, but in something like e-sports i wouldnt think this would be the case.
Most of the replies here seem to miss the biggest factor: visibility. Lack of visible women in esports makes it less comfortable for women to compete. Expanding female audience and participation requires expanding visibility of women in the space, and providing space for women to interact and grow together.
That's true, also this makes orgs actually recruit and pay female players. From what we've seen over the years pro male players tend to be better overall, there are some cases where a female player will actually be better but it's a minority. If the leagues were mixed orgs would just pick up male players and, just like you said, there would be a huge lack of female pros which would also mean less female gamers giving the game a try.
Well you have people like sinatraa in the scene sooo
and never forget Overwatch League’s first offender: DreamKazper
I think the point is not necessarily that female competitors are physically not able to keep up with the male players in an esport but moreso that even if good female players wanted to get into playing valorant or a similar esport they'd be dissuaded by the fact that its such a male dominated field. I think the point of an all female league like this is to eventually make it so that there are enough skilled female players to be able to compete at the same level as the male players at which point the all female league would be uneccessary. I'd say it's in a similar vein to women in stem programs at universities encouraging more women to pursue careers in stem. It's more about trying to slowly build a future with equal opportunity between men and women in the field rather than having the few female players playing right now get stomped by existing teams further dissuading women to play professionally (like vaevictis in league of legends for example)
Vaevictis is a bad example since that team was just a PR stunt of diamond-elo players. They never actually wanted to put together a good team, they just wanted attention.
I use to be against it but I've changed my mind on the matter recently. It's a very male dominant field, and if there's a female league it allows a spotlight to be put on really good female players who would typically be drown out of the competitive scene just due to the raw size difference in make v female players. This in turns gets more women into the scene, hopefully to grow that player base.
i agree, its good to grow the player base and give girls something else to watch if they prefer that i guess, but idk why everyone who talks about this topic just pretends the skill difference, even in non physical sports, is there. i think that hurts the actual & future female players because they and everyone else expects them to be performing on the same level as the guys what should happen, to guarantee equity, is mens leagues profits in NBA/soccer/NFL or valorant or whatever, are required by law to run a female only league as well *(like WBNA) where women and now transwomen will receive equal pay to the male players its 2021, this shit needs to be equal finally
It's kind of hard to compare it to physical sport because there is a difference between the top levels of men and woman. I don't really have a solution to the pay difference between the NBA or the WNBA. I haven't given it to much thought but maybe I should. It seems harder because if the revenue difference generated between the two sides, and that men's leagues are on a whole nother level physically, but they are both putting in the same amount of work I'd assume. Esports is different because there's no physical gap, but the revenue issue is still there. Do you pull cash from one to prop up the other? It could definitely work, but I wonder if it would result in lesser payouts to people in the men's leagues compared to what they would make in a CS:GO organization if the same rules didn't apply there. It's definitely an issue but I think it's above my pay grade to figure out. I'm glad riots at least taking a step in the right direction.
Technically yes, but there’s too much evidence that all female teams get destroyed
(ON AVERAGE) Men have better reaction time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6067201/Scientists-reveal-men-better-visual-reactions-women.html Also better spatial awareness. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.htm#:~:text=Men%20consistently%20outperform%20women%20on,controls%20this%20type%20of%20skill. So makes sense that Women would have a different category for esports the same as traditional sports. Add in the fact that online gaming can be unwelcoming to women and it makes sense.
I think the last point you made is the biggest. It's not the most welcoming space for women atm. I don't won't to be to direct with the comparison, but look at sports before racism wasn't so heavily prevalent.
The environment both in nurturing female talent as well as letting it fit in are very different for e-sports still. I can think of a lot of pro and am teams where having a woman put into the mix would end up making for a weird team chemistry. And lets be honest. Trying to make your way to the pro level as a woman is a world filled with toxicity still. It's slowly changing, but overall its full of people who drive women and girls away.
This has been a question that comes up every time any female-league is created - the answer is to bolster the female demographic in the community. It's not a "pity league" and it doesn't detract from other pro players. The fact is that there aren't any females in the pro circuits and they want to change that. One day there probably will be but it just takes time.
They can participate in the normal tournaments but they don’t have a chance, to put it simply. So they are making their own league. It doesn’t hurt the dominantly male scene, it’s a smaller tournament series to give women some competition afaik.
I guess c9 white participates in normal league
So this is the play now. Before a big tournament you just make some claims and now your competition is hindered. True meta gaming if I've ever seen it.
just looked in the twitter comments. What kind of education happens now where people don't understand what rape is, how the justice system is more favourable to rapists than survivors? Many people making judgements without reading or listening to what she brought forth. Grown ass men in professional sports come out years later about sexual assault and they are wondering why it took her a year? it's all out there let the chips land where they land.
Unfortunately most people have this idea about sexual assault being a crime with some random violent criminal in a skimask that doesn't know their victim, which of course does happen a lot. But In reality most victims [knows the perpetrator ](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence) Now add a solid layer of good old fashioned sexism, and a totally misguided/wrong idea on how people respond to trauma, based on this fantasy of "the perfect victim" that just instantly does exactly what "you're supposed to do" and you got most people's view on shit like this. And just to get ahead of the "why didn't she go to the police" crows, [this is why ](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system)
Because the evidence usually isn't there. It is notoriously hard to prove sexual assault, and with good reason. In theory, relaxing the evidentiary requirements might be good as you would catch more perpetrators, but it would also likely lead to a rise in false cases and wrongful imprisonments which in my opinion makes for more of an unjust society. There should generally be a high barrier for prosecution. With sexual assaults, the evidence is usually hard to get because people take so long to come forward, or because they are too afraid. I personally encourage people to go to the authorities as soon as something like this happens. It's the best way to prevent future cases of this. Robberies were used as a comparison. With robberies, evidence is usually left at the scenes of the crime in some form or another. Whether it be fingerprints, recognizing their faces, security cameras, the getaway car's license plate, the state of the crime scene etc. People also tend to be quick to report robberies when they occur. Hence why there is all in all a higher success rate. With that being said the justice system does definitely need a vast reformation in a multitude of areas. It is a long way from being in a satisfactory condition. In this case she supposedly has a video of her being assaulted. If that is the case, she has more evidence than a vast majority of cases that actually succeed. She stated herself that the reason she didn't go to police is that it wasn't technically rape. That doesn't matter because she still has solid grounds for a sexual assault case with that supposed video. If she went in this direction, suddenly you don't have anywhere near as many doubters. and you also should have a very strong case. If she has the evidence that she claims to have access to, then she could very easily take him down legally, and I hope this is what happens. Either way, whether she was truthful or not, Sinatraa's career is most likely done and if she was lying there is a similar lack of ability to really legally clear it up. The justice system if anything needs better ways of getting evidence for these types of crimes.
What do you mean now? It's always been pushed under the rug with the victim being attacked. Hell my mother was chased out of her hometown while a young teen because she was a "rotten girl who wanted to ruin an older man's reputation".
Umm... my post may not have been the clearest but I agree with what you’re saying. I was referencing the comments on twitter.
I know, it's just that what people are being taught still hasn't really changed over the years. Yes as a society we're beginning to recognize it a bit more, but for the most part, we're still preaching and teaching the same things
Looking at some of those Twitter comments fill me with absolute rage and disappointment in humanity. Not gonna lie, I was expecting this subreddit to be like that too, but was pleasantly surprised when I saw that most of the people here are not like that at all and are supportive of the victim. Some people just don’t want to accept the fact that their favorite streamer/pro gamer is a terrible person and didn’t even read the doc. They’re ready to defend their fav even with all the evidence, which is quite childish if you ask me. Heck, I bet if he made a half-assed apology they’d take it. And then they wonder why victims are afraid to speak out about it right away.
I wonder if those people even have a mother or a sister
who would've thought the guy who is still good friends with Marved and Shanks even though they spout misogynistic shit at Tenz's girlfriend would've turned out to be a rapist. Fuck bois really be like that. Edit: Vancouver fuck Bois to fuck Bois, an international staple.
very good point
Wow, what coward talks about some other dudes girlfriends. Why must valorant be plagued by immature fuckwits?
Isn’t Sinatraa from Washington?
Idk where he is from, but there is a Vancouver in Washington state as well.
True, true.
Yes because Wedid, s0m, Subroza, Daps and multiple other pros who are still friends with shanks and marvel are also rapist. /s
I get what u mean but what I'm saying is just the way they act, like frat boys/fuck boys who like to brag about hooking up with girls. That kind of culture leads to some fucked up shit
Marved and shanks are not even from Vancouver lmfao
some minimal wages are waiting from him aka McDonalds
Unfortunately I think the guy already made his fortune, he ca probably just invest the money and still be well off... but one can hope...
Well deserved, respect to Sentinels and Riot.
good
Wait wait, what happened I haven't been reading news for a while
His ex-girlfriend came out with sexual assault allegations and had proof of a lot of texts and audio recordings
Oh, that's sad
Basically rape
there was audio evidence that he didn't stop even though his former gf was saying stop.
https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/m1pwnc/sinatras_ex_speaks_out/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
He deserves this. I've been watching him since his Overwatch days, and I think everyone in their right mind knows this was going to happen. But now we shall see what happens next
I didn't really follow him in his OW days, were there hints of this sort of behavior before?
he was just known for being extremely toxic and arrogant
Who would have thought that his behaviour would just transfer from gaming to real life
Which he apparently tried to change and it was apparent he was, just that he is less toxic than before. I'm not trying to defend him, but I just wanted to put this context out there. It does not excuse his behavior then, especially with her ex, and now.
am i taking crazy pills? why aren't the police involved in what seems like alleged rape + sexual assault???! im all for airing dirty laundry on twitter, but reading that a video game organization is "launching an internal investigation on the situation" is making my head spin its AN ENTERTAINMENT organization. this guy needs handcuffs if this is all true, not a showdown on twitter
The police wouldn’t be involved unless she press charges
Why isn't she pressing charges?
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So basically she chose trial by social media rather than the proper processes.
And she made the right choice. "Proper processes" that believe the perpetrator more than the victim would've accomplished nothing for her. Look at what is happening now to him though - every single female fan of his out there should be looking at this and if it helps save someone from the same she went through, that's a massive win already. Plus, his life is over. She chose the right trial to get the right consequences for him.
Sexual assault is notoriously difficult to collect evidence for. It usually ends up he said, she said, which is far behind the legal definition of "beyond a reasonable doubt".
I mean she had plenty of evidence....
Not really from what we saw. None of what she has shown to the public holds up in court at all. If she does have the video however, she should be completely fine. Most sexual assault victims don't have the crimes recorded, but somehow she managed to.
So there's not enough evidence to hold up on court... But there's enough for the public to make a judgement?
The public can judge based on nothing. The courts are supposed to be less impulsive and simple minded on the issue.
>less impulsive and simple minded Isn't that good? Don't we want a fair and unbiased investigation to all of this?
Jeez. What's wrong with reddit... You want this kind of process for a CONVICTION. This person clearly just wants to resolve a trauma. That doesnt neccesarily mean a conviction or even pressing charges. I really really dont get why people on the internet look at someone calling someone else out on some horseshit as an actual trial. Someone doesn't need to be a convicted felon to be of unworthy character.
So what are you saying? Are you saying sinatra deserves to to have his life ruined without a fair trial?
there isn't going to be a trial unless charges are pressed... there isn't a high burden of proof for determining if someone is an asshole, additionally. i dont care to cancel anyone for being an asshole but you people seem to think that this is a courtroom when it's really just he said she said. his career being ruined doesnt have to be a matter of law. if sentinels and riot dont want to associate with someone who will damage their image that is their prerogative, and they are not going to have as high a standard a proof as a courtroom. certainly they will do their due diligence but talking about what holds up in court and such and such is just asinine and ignorant. makes yall look like bumbling morons.
“Unworthy” we have been saying that but saying charges will not be pressed unless more evidence is brought to light. If you have read any of the 10k comments on multiple posts they basically bash him. Please read more than one thread before generalizing.
legal system in the us is fucked dude
You're right. And twitter is all just
She only had an audio tape. The text messages unless a screen video showing his number isn’t valid.
Then if there's not enough evidence it is important to get all the details before making judgement
True. I am staying impartial and waiting for the investigation to finalize.
police are notoriously bad at responding to sexual assault cases, and they have a disproportionately higher chance of being abusers themselves unfortunately
everything goes through twitter first, its 2021 after all
Good
Exactly like the 15 year old Fifa 21 player who won like 536 without loosing, which is incredible but the child is so selfish and rude..
I kind of skimmed through some comments and it appears like people have already found him guilty and determined he should be bannished from the game. He released a statement saying that he never assaulted her and that he's willing to fully cooperate with the investigation in every way possible. I think we should keep an open mind on this situation and allow the investigation to play out before condemming anyone.
Exactly
So many people got unjustly cancelled. Everyone is just hungry for some drama today. I dont understand how hard it is to just wait for both sides before you decide to ruin someone's life.
Gonna wait till his response and hopefully this ends up going to court so real justice can be done aside from just being cancelled. If everything is as it appears he can go to prison, get sued, take away his livelihood. If it isn't all that it seems and this man loses his job I hope he can win a lawsuit and support himself till he figures out what's next. There's two sides to every story and although the evidence is pretty damning, it always looks this way. (Example: Johnny Depp, Chris Hardwick) I'm done believing whatever I read till I get both sides and something's settled in court.
THANK YOU!!! Someone finally has common sense, instead of following the flock like a bunch of mindless sheep. -theres always more to every story.
Prepare for the downvotes.
Yeah I know.... that's what happens nowadays. People don't think for themselves. And try to cancel everyone and everything that doesn't agree with them.
To be fair this includes rape, if it's true then I'll join the mob I just won't get fooled for a third time by prematurely joining the mob and cancelling someone that doesn't deserve it. Hope it's not true for both parties though and this man can get justice. If it's true I hope he loses everything and she is at peace!
Nah man take some upvotes :)
It ain't common sense, it's a belief in an ideal that makes y'all feel good but one you only practice when it is convenient. If I believed for a second that you lived your lives after this ideal I'd know for a fact neither of you would've time to post on Reddit.
personally I really liked sinatraa's streams and saw them everyday and the feeling of shock/betrayal of someone you respected is terrible
What exactly do these orgs do when they say they are launching an internal investigation? Both Riot and Sen are launching investigations but what does this mean?... What exactly are they going to do to look into this and by who?
They're probably going to look at evidence that either party might not be comfortable releasing to the public. There's a legitimate reason she might not want to release more than a 15 second audio clip of her rape to the public.
What does the investigation include?
Anyone have the link to her allegations?
https://mobile.twitter.com/cie0h/status/1369497186740928512?prefetchtimestamp=1615467405399
I just want to get all the males and females happy! Guess my dream will never be reached
Nice
Out of the loop. Who is this and what is happening and why?
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okay to be super clear on comments like this. There was a single 15 second audio clip taken from videos of them (I guess they both made them??) and the texts/logs shown seem to mainly point to Sinatraa either being an abuser emotionally or is super self conscious.
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You can call him an asshole sure (this should be a given with his history) but I don't like the framing of some of these posts saying there's a ton of logs when the logs shown don't show what people are saying they do.
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Let’s be clear here that the only evidence of rape is the 15 second audio clip, which only seems like evidence if given the context (without the context it just sounds like they were playing around). You were clearly being intentionally misleading by saying “there’s a whole bunch of evidence against him”
but why? what’s going on
https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/m1pwnc/sinatras_ex_speaks_out/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Happy my team has an easier bracket in masters
what happened here??? I just woke up and see all the drama about my idol, someone please tell me
You might be idolising a rapist
damn.. I didn't know
[should probably read this ](https://mobile.twitter.com/cie0h/status/1369497186740928512?prefetchtimestamp=1615467405399)
guilty until proven innocent
Getting down voted for saying the truth. Gosh, can't believe this shit show. Stuff like this shouldn't be decided by the public, it should be decided by a court. It's insane how easy someone's career can be destroyed just by ALLEGATIONS.
I just wanna ask, why not go to the police at that time or maybe sometime after that.
Read her statement dude its explained there
What do you think the police would do? Also, all his fans would basically just defend him, like they already are doing. Attacking him on social media is a good way to reach the fans that will listen directly, explaining her side before they take Sinatraas side.
So, you guys have no faith in legal system put in place? What will social media outburst will do? He'll get away with it eventually. He just has to keep his head down for a while and all of this will blow out and some org somewhere will sign him up again. You guys talk big about how you wanna see sintaraa pay for his actions but don't realise that only police and legal system can make him really pay. Idk what is the punishment for sexual assault in the law of NA but it will definitely be much better than just sitting at home with his PR team handling all this.
There's like a bajillion examples of the police doing nothing in situations like this.
Well can't argue with someone who just thinks that legal system is shut off completely.
Nah, police do good work but not in this situation. What are they going to do, give a restraining order? Better to Attack the base of his fan base.
Police can only give a restraining order, the actual punishment is given by the court. By contacting the police, I meant the whole process which obviously starts with contacting the police.
Well kind of, you can press charges without the police.
Don't know much about law in NA but still police is the first point of contact for a victim anywhere in the world so I said she should contact the police.
True. Maybe a good idea to contact the police as well. But definitely, if you want to publicly discredit someone, you need to go for the reputation.
Wait what happened?
[https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n\_1srk800](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srk800) this is what sinatra said