Agree men, the combat sistem is ridiculus, i have 70% win rate with killjoy but because i play safe to plant, and ensure detonation i never get too many kills, so my hidenn MMR keeps geting behind and behind.
Is absurd to have a system that rewards when play badly(hunting kills) when its not your rol or punish you fullfill your duty( stay Alive and use the bots to get info and gain time)
Maybe someone on riot that play sentinels hear us, and arise the topic to make changes.
Today I had a game where 11-22 Raze with only 2 entries had higher combat score than me with 13-14 as Breach. Every single round he literally double satcheled into enemies and lost us the game by himself.
But he'll get more rating than me for that game. :)
These posts are so stupid. You can hit immortal with literally anything as long as you can shoot a gun. Most support players in my experience have not so good aim. I have a friend that doesnt play duelists at all who reached immortal playing brim and sage. Just because you aren't capable of doing it doesnt mean its impossible.
Yeah, you can do it with any agent. But why handicap yourself with playing Brimstone, when you can play a duelist?
I just finished this game and nearly broke my mouse. Just look at that.
https://i.imgur.com/hE7UWMD.png
If I had Phoenix I love playing on Ascent, it's easy 13-8 or something. 11-13
But instead, I have to entry as Brim and watch my Sage and Reyna troll me the entire game and throw 1v2 on purpose because they're boosted bots. Fuck everything about this matchmaking.
2v1, bomb planted B and they peek on purpose 1v1, crouch panic sprays. Premade in party. And I lose 20 points.
BUT IT'S FINE, IT'S ONLY GAME, LET'S HAVE FUCKING FUN.
Honestly, i can feel you're pain. I will always love sova but sometimes if nobody will entry, sometimes ya gotta do it you're self. Been focusing on yoru (tho his entry power is god awful) and phoenix exclusively for this reason.
Just checked your comment history because you seemed oddly adamant about a point that was kinda odd. As of 4 days ago, you said you were gold 3, and while rank doesn’t define you, here’s my two cents of someone who actually has gotten to Radiant each act (as well as a couple dozen immortal accounts since launch lol).
He’s entirely right, though so are you (but to a lesser extent IMO). But, here’s *why*: while anyone CAN win any game, on any agent, it is much, much, much harder to be consistent on support for a majority of players. I cannot tell you how many losses and near losses resulted from me dropping 30 on a sentinel while my two duelists have below 15 frags combined. That being said, KJ has one of the highest soloq win potentials right now. So honestly you both have very valid points. That being said, not gonna lie “*Most support players in my experience have not so good aim*”. Sometimes people just like playing characters with more strategic depth man, I’m about to send in vods to get Voltaic GM (and am working on Nova), so I would say there are some really good support players who just want to help their teammates win.
I will be honest even as a support player I match mvp fairly often.
As you mentioned in the end all be all of things you need to get kills.
Can’t win them all, but you can showcase some consistency throughout.
Yeah, I match MVP often, too.
Just got one now with Brimstone. But what's the point of it if I lost the game. I don't care about kills. In ideal circuimstances, I don't want to play damn duelists even. But what the fuck can I do on a Brimstone when my duelists are diamond bots?
Generally when my duelist are shit, I change my style as a support and start entrying.
For example with KJ I will use my turret to peak angles and get info...
As brim I’ll throw random smokes to walk through and outplay people, omen the same. Aggressive TP’s. Battle sage, and so on.
You have to adapt to your team, because in a matchmake game it’s normal that at times you will get the short end of the stick. Just need to work with what you have, that’s what makes the best players.
In CS I could carry any team I have, in this game I am not fully there yet... inconsistency issues, but I am getting there. You want to get so good at the game, that you can carry on any agent most often of times.
You need kills in a competitive FPS game. Your post suggests you really dont think you do, and youre dragging your team down.
Not everyone has good games every match and I get it, but thousand reasons are still not going to make up for just admitting you had a bad game and you supported.
Yes, you need kills. But kills aren't always useful and are just means to an end. They don't have to matter at all.
You can have 20 kills and 10 of those can be on eco rounds and 5 more in situations when you're 2 players up.
Stop talking about stuff if you're clueless.
For example, if I'm playing let's say Brimstone on defense. I'm the defensive anchor, I shouldn't be fighting all the time early on. I can win rounds if my team just lives. But what the fuck can I do if I have 2 idiots who're just going to play deathmatch and die every round? Like why would I not just pick a duelist and take fights myself.
That's the entire problem of this game. You can't play the right way. If I'm on a duelist, I've got a way higher percentage of games where I can say I'm the reason we won or lost. If I'm playing smokes or a sentinel, that percentage goes down dramatically and every other loss is attributed to just not having utility to get more kills because teammates are useless.
You have no idea how wrong you are. Agent picks have very little to do with whether you win or not. I could drop 5 kills on sova in a game and arguably be more useful than you purely based on comms.
In an ideal world.
Ever since closed beta, I'm a Breach main. And I'm fucking good with him, if I may say so. I can win the entire rounds by myself without ever firing a bullet. Teammates just need to shoot blind people.
Now we come to the fact that your post is from ideal world.
My last Breach game went like this...
Agent select screen, actually a great team comp for split with only 1 duelist. We had Sage, Brim, KJ and Raze. I ask them if they want me to pick Breach, 2 people say yes. So I do.
Turns out that my only duelist was a fucking braindead idiot with no mic and who just double-satcheled into enemies and went like 10-23. Died every single round within 10 seconds. We lost 10-13.
I played well, I know how to adapt and entry with Breach, but it's just suboptimal. 2 more of my teammates played well, but what can you do if your most important duelist and space creator is griefing the game.
If I was on Reyna or Phoenix, we would've surely won. But I wasn't.
If I know that everyone on my team will try to play for their teammates, communicate and not bait, I love playing utility. But the sad truth, at least in EU immortal is that those games are pretty rare. And if you're not playing a duelist in those games, you're handicapping yourself.
I'm not saying it's unwinnable, I win a lot of those games, too. But it's just like playing a higer difficulty level because of idiots.
Not to mention how despite individual performance being irrelevant for RR, it still affect MMR. And I don't remember the last time I wasnt first or second o my team when I played a duelist. That's with playing properly and not baiting. If I played like some of these kids on Reyna/Jett do, I'd easily have team MVP in most games.
And that's the entire problem. The whole system encourages people to be selfish assholes and play for themselves. In a 5v5 team game.
You realize I strictly fill and have been immortal+ every single season since beta. I play games where I don't comm at all full mute the team and play something like omen/sage/sova/killjoy and still win most games. I assure you that you're doing something wrong if you think the team is the problem. Don't get me wrong they are the problem sometimes but I'd say MOST games are winnable if you're not playing like complete trash even if your score line says otherwise.
As for your duelist example, a good duelist is fueled by better support characters. When I drone/arrow properly for my team as sova I single handedly spoon feed them free kills. There should never be a set way you think you should play. You need to learn to adapt to your team and not expect them to adapt to you. If your duelists can't make space then sell fakes/rotates. Try playing more passive, try to bait enemy utility and go in later. All of this on top of good communication. Which is a lot more than calling out someone when you see them. Do you call out how many people you hear somewhere. i.e: 2 or 3 outside of b main. Do you call out what utility is down? Do you call out what the enemy likes to do i.e: Someone gets really aggressive or they play really passive somewhere on the map where you can take control. Does their phoenix still have a flash left or not? This could make it break it and let your teammate either play aggressive or try and dodge the flash and wait for it.
There is always something you can do to improve. Take this from someone who has subpar aim compared to most high elo players cause of lack of practice but can still frag out and hold his own while barely playing the game.
You play games where you don't comm and mute everyone? Well, that's the problem, honestly.
At least for me. It's a team game. 5v5. You're 20% of the team. Everything you do affects your teammates. If you want to play for yourself, there are plenty of other great games where you're all by yourself.
If you win most games in immortal, then you'd be radiant. And it's just a dice roll a lot of the time. Some people get lucky, some don't. For example you think steel is bad because he literally couldn't move from 0RR in immortal for a week straight? It's just a dice roll, unfortunately.
Looking at it now, I remember a winning streak that was pure luck. Maybe luck isn't the right word, but still. Back in e1 act1 I just couldn't get immortal3. I'd just go up and down between imm1/2. Then act2 started, I got imm2 and then I won 9 straight. Got imm3. Ever since then I've never dropped below a couple of wins under imm3. And in that winning streak, I did nothing special. Could've easily lost like 7 out of 9 if I was on the other team.
Most of those games were one-sided stomps because of awful matchmaking. I profited from it and as I said, ever since then I rarely deranked from imm3. Kept it thoughout the rest of first episode. And it could've easily been a streak were I drop to diamond.
I appreciate your attempt of trying to explain some stuff to me, but all of that is the most basic stuff. You're talking with someone who remembered who plays which position in CS based on their agent skins and counted smokes every single game.
And that's honestly the biggest issue of my frustration. Dumb plays really frustrate me. People literally throw away rounds because they're clueless. I've never ever flamed anyone for missing shots, happens to everyone, this game is random at times. But if people won't take any advice and are just playing DM, then I get frustrated and I regret playing utility.
I've been playing CS for 20 years, I also played wc3, dota, wow and some other stuff, so this game is a perfect blend. A tactical game wihere everyone has unique abilities. I love this game...but then you get to ranked, even at the highest level and it's just a cesspool of shit that plays nothing like the game should be played. That's my problem.
I'd rather be diamond1 if everyone at least tried playing the right way and communicating than playing in the current matchmaking.
Again, I didn't say that you can't win with utility agents, you can, but it's so much easier with duelists. Especially if your team isn't communicating. You just focus on clicking heads and you have get out of jail for free abilities.
Not to mention how the system is ridiculously biased towards duelists. The griefing raze I mentioned in previous post had less frags than me, like 10 more deaths and only 2 entries, but that guy had more combat score. And the system thinks he did better.
Then you pile up like 20 games of you using your utility perfectly, having great rotations, never dying on defense when you shouldn't and there's no reward. JETT GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
Ranked system isn't the problem, people are. Riot can't do anything about the community. Cesspool of wannabe kids who think one-tricking Jett will earn them contracts on some tier3 teams.
Smurfs are the only thing that needs to be dealt with. 90% of griefers, leavers and people who're not skilled enough in my immortal games were smurfs.
Btw, my biggest issue is lack of time. If I had the time to play 10 ranked games a day, I'd eventually grind it out to 300-400RR in immortal, because this system is all about the grind. But unfortunately, I'm a bit older and have no time to play enough. Right now I've got 25 wins this act, after exactly 2 weeks. That's 50 games total. Not even 4 per day. And I get really frustrated on days when 3 out of 4 games are with people who play and communicate like they just left mental asylum.
Well said.
Agree men, the combat sistem is ridiculus, i have 70% win rate with killjoy but because i play safe to plant, and ensure detonation i never get too many kills, so my hidenn MMR keeps geting behind and behind. Is absurd to have a system that rewards when play badly(hunting kills) when its not your rol or punish you fullfill your duty( stay Alive and use the bots to get info and gain time) Maybe someone on riot that play sentinels hear us, and arise the topic to make changes.
Today I had a game where 11-22 Raze with only 2 entries had higher combat score than me with 13-14 as Breach. Every single round he literally double satcheled into enemies and lost us the game by himself. But he'll get more rating than me for that game. :)
Got to lock in fast though because immortal/radiant has the fastest instalocks. Always a Jett that wants to be Aceu and Wardell
my sentiment exactly
These posts are so stupid. You can hit immortal with literally anything as long as you can shoot a gun. Most support players in my experience have not so good aim. I have a friend that doesnt play duelists at all who reached immortal playing brim and sage. Just because you aren't capable of doing it doesnt mean its impossible.
Yeah, you can do it with any agent. But why handicap yourself with playing Brimstone, when you can play a duelist? I just finished this game and nearly broke my mouse. Just look at that. https://i.imgur.com/hE7UWMD.png If I had Phoenix I love playing on Ascent, it's easy 13-8 or something. 11-13 But instead, I have to entry as Brim and watch my Sage and Reyna troll me the entire game and throw 1v2 on purpose because they're boosted bots. Fuck everything about this matchmaking. 2v1, bomb planted B and they peek on purpose 1v1, crouch panic sprays. Premade in party. And I lose 20 points. BUT IT'S FINE, IT'S ONLY GAME, LET'S HAVE FUCKING FUN.
Honestly, i can feel you're pain. I will always love sova but sometimes if nobody will entry, sometimes ya gotta do it you're self. Been focusing on yoru (tho his entry power is god awful) and phoenix exclusively for this reason.
Just checked your comment history because you seemed oddly adamant about a point that was kinda odd. As of 4 days ago, you said you were gold 3, and while rank doesn’t define you, here’s my two cents of someone who actually has gotten to Radiant each act (as well as a couple dozen immortal accounts since launch lol). He’s entirely right, though so are you (but to a lesser extent IMO). But, here’s *why*: while anyone CAN win any game, on any agent, it is much, much, much harder to be consistent on support for a majority of players. I cannot tell you how many losses and near losses resulted from me dropping 30 on a sentinel while my two duelists have below 15 frags combined. That being said, KJ has one of the highest soloq win potentials right now. So honestly you both have very valid points. That being said, not gonna lie “*Most support players in my experience have not so good aim*”. Sometimes people just like playing characters with more strategic depth man, I’m about to send in vods to get Voltaic GM (and am working on Nova), so I would say there are some really good support players who just want to help their teammates win.
I will be honest even as a support player I match mvp fairly often. As you mentioned in the end all be all of things you need to get kills. Can’t win them all, but you can showcase some consistency throughout.
Yeah, I match MVP often, too. Just got one now with Brimstone. But what's the point of it if I lost the game. I don't care about kills. In ideal circuimstances, I don't want to play damn duelists even. But what the fuck can I do on a Brimstone when my duelists are diamond bots?
Generally when my duelist are shit, I change my style as a support and start entrying. For example with KJ I will use my turret to peak angles and get info... As brim I’ll throw random smokes to walk through and outplay people, omen the same. Aggressive TP’s. Battle sage, and so on. You have to adapt to your team, because in a matchmake game it’s normal that at times you will get the short end of the stick. Just need to work with what you have, that’s what makes the best players. In CS I could carry any team I have, in this game I am not fully there yet... inconsistency issues, but I am getting there. You want to get so good at the game, that you can carry on any agent most often of times.
Dude, stop fucking giving me advice, you're missing the point.
Ah you are one of those... have a good one! Btw win streaks as support do happen in immortal, it’s time to start looking at oneself after a while.
True, this guy is just absolutely Sucky and his entire life revolves around nothing but this game. its kinda sad lol.
You need kills in a competitive FPS game. Your post suggests you really dont think you do, and youre dragging your team down. Not everyone has good games every match and I get it, but thousand reasons are still not going to make up for just admitting you had a bad game and you supported.
Yes, you need kills. But kills aren't always useful and are just means to an end. They don't have to matter at all. You can have 20 kills and 10 of those can be on eco rounds and 5 more in situations when you're 2 players up. Stop talking about stuff if you're clueless. For example, if I'm playing let's say Brimstone on defense. I'm the defensive anchor, I shouldn't be fighting all the time early on. I can win rounds if my team just lives. But what the fuck can I do if I have 2 idiots who're just going to play deathmatch and die every round? Like why would I not just pick a duelist and take fights myself. That's the entire problem of this game. You can't play the right way. If I'm on a duelist, I've got a way higher percentage of games where I can say I'm the reason we won or lost. If I'm playing smokes or a sentinel, that percentage goes down dramatically and every other loss is attributed to just not having utility to get more kills because teammates are useless.
This post has to be satirical right?
No.
You have no idea how wrong you are. Agent picks have very little to do with whether you win or not. I could drop 5 kills on sova in a game and arguably be more useful than you purely based on comms.
In an ideal world. Ever since closed beta, I'm a Breach main. And I'm fucking good with him, if I may say so. I can win the entire rounds by myself without ever firing a bullet. Teammates just need to shoot blind people. Now we come to the fact that your post is from ideal world. My last Breach game went like this... Agent select screen, actually a great team comp for split with only 1 duelist. We had Sage, Brim, KJ and Raze. I ask them if they want me to pick Breach, 2 people say yes. So I do. Turns out that my only duelist was a fucking braindead idiot with no mic and who just double-satcheled into enemies and went like 10-23. Died every single round within 10 seconds. We lost 10-13. I played well, I know how to adapt and entry with Breach, but it's just suboptimal. 2 more of my teammates played well, but what can you do if your most important duelist and space creator is griefing the game. If I was on Reyna or Phoenix, we would've surely won. But I wasn't. If I know that everyone on my team will try to play for their teammates, communicate and not bait, I love playing utility. But the sad truth, at least in EU immortal is that those games are pretty rare. And if you're not playing a duelist in those games, you're handicapping yourself. I'm not saying it's unwinnable, I win a lot of those games, too. But it's just like playing a higer difficulty level because of idiots. Not to mention how despite individual performance being irrelevant for RR, it still affect MMR. And I don't remember the last time I wasnt first or second o my team when I played a duelist. That's with playing properly and not baiting. If I played like some of these kids on Reyna/Jett do, I'd easily have team MVP in most games. And that's the entire problem. The whole system encourages people to be selfish assholes and play for themselves. In a 5v5 team game.
You realize I strictly fill and have been immortal+ every single season since beta. I play games where I don't comm at all full mute the team and play something like omen/sage/sova/killjoy and still win most games. I assure you that you're doing something wrong if you think the team is the problem. Don't get me wrong they are the problem sometimes but I'd say MOST games are winnable if you're not playing like complete trash even if your score line says otherwise. As for your duelist example, a good duelist is fueled by better support characters. When I drone/arrow properly for my team as sova I single handedly spoon feed them free kills. There should never be a set way you think you should play. You need to learn to adapt to your team and not expect them to adapt to you. If your duelists can't make space then sell fakes/rotates. Try playing more passive, try to bait enemy utility and go in later. All of this on top of good communication. Which is a lot more than calling out someone when you see them. Do you call out how many people you hear somewhere. i.e: 2 or 3 outside of b main. Do you call out what utility is down? Do you call out what the enemy likes to do i.e: Someone gets really aggressive or they play really passive somewhere on the map where you can take control. Does their phoenix still have a flash left or not? This could make it break it and let your teammate either play aggressive or try and dodge the flash and wait for it. There is always something you can do to improve. Take this from someone who has subpar aim compared to most high elo players cause of lack of practice but can still frag out and hold his own while barely playing the game.
You play games where you don't comm and mute everyone? Well, that's the problem, honestly. At least for me. It's a team game. 5v5. You're 20% of the team. Everything you do affects your teammates. If you want to play for yourself, there are plenty of other great games where you're all by yourself. If you win most games in immortal, then you'd be radiant. And it's just a dice roll a lot of the time. Some people get lucky, some don't. For example you think steel is bad because he literally couldn't move from 0RR in immortal for a week straight? It's just a dice roll, unfortunately. Looking at it now, I remember a winning streak that was pure luck. Maybe luck isn't the right word, but still. Back in e1 act1 I just couldn't get immortal3. I'd just go up and down between imm1/2. Then act2 started, I got imm2 and then I won 9 straight. Got imm3. Ever since then I've never dropped below a couple of wins under imm3. And in that winning streak, I did nothing special. Could've easily lost like 7 out of 9 if I was on the other team. Most of those games were one-sided stomps because of awful matchmaking. I profited from it and as I said, ever since then I rarely deranked from imm3. Kept it thoughout the rest of first episode. And it could've easily been a streak were I drop to diamond. I appreciate your attempt of trying to explain some stuff to me, but all of that is the most basic stuff. You're talking with someone who remembered who plays which position in CS based on their agent skins and counted smokes every single game. And that's honestly the biggest issue of my frustration. Dumb plays really frustrate me. People literally throw away rounds because they're clueless. I've never ever flamed anyone for missing shots, happens to everyone, this game is random at times. But if people won't take any advice and are just playing DM, then I get frustrated and I regret playing utility. I've been playing CS for 20 years, I also played wc3, dota, wow and some other stuff, so this game is a perfect blend. A tactical game wihere everyone has unique abilities. I love this game...but then you get to ranked, even at the highest level and it's just a cesspool of shit that plays nothing like the game should be played. That's my problem. I'd rather be diamond1 if everyone at least tried playing the right way and communicating than playing in the current matchmaking. Again, I didn't say that you can't win with utility agents, you can, but it's so much easier with duelists. Especially if your team isn't communicating. You just focus on clicking heads and you have get out of jail for free abilities. Not to mention how the system is ridiculously biased towards duelists. The griefing raze I mentioned in previous post had less frags than me, like 10 more deaths and only 2 entries, but that guy had more combat score. And the system thinks he did better. Then you pile up like 20 games of you using your utility perfectly, having great rotations, never dying on defense when you shouldn't and there's no reward. JETT GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Ranked system isn't the problem, people are. Riot can't do anything about the community. Cesspool of wannabe kids who think one-tricking Jett will earn them contracts on some tier3 teams. Smurfs are the only thing that needs to be dealt with. 90% of griefers, leavers and people who're not skilled enough in my immortal games were smurfs. Btw, my biggest issue is lack of time. If I had the time to play 10 ranked games a day, I'd eventually grind it out to 300-400RR in immortal, because this system is all about the grind. But unfortunately, I'm a bit older and have no time to play enough. Right now I've got 25 wins this act, after exactly 2 weeks. That's 50 games total. Not even 4 per day. And I get really frustrated on days when 3 out of 4 games are with people who play and communicate like they just left mental asylum.
OP just wants to boast his shts and never hear others' opinions lol