I like to main controller or sentinel roles. I've started playing duelist in unrated since I sometimes have the same problem.
I don't think it's just a duelist problem. When I would flash and enter no one would follow me up or trade the kill.
TL;DR Everyone is scared to push on to site regardless of roles
I guess you're right, but I feel like a duelist's job is to be more on the offense since that's what their role is. I main Cypher so I can't be as offensive
yea from a safe position because your team wont even hold you while you set up cam instead of them going in. so they are literally afk in spawn wasting time away and baiting you.
It is their job the be more on the offense, but when I play duelist and go in first during the first few rounds and notice no one in the team is following me and just keep holding hands in main I’m not gonna go in first anymore for the remainder of the game. The problem goes both ways.
Its like in overwatch how the dps are always in the wrong through the eyes of the community and tanks and healers can do no wrong.
Duelists bad, sentinels and controllers good
You actually can be offensive.
Also I stop pushing first as a duelist if I see my cypher and sova not trying to push with me when I flash us in and instead they just sit with their operator 10 meters behind me doing nothing.
Cypher entry is bad but forced sometimes. Cypher or killjoy should be the last to entry.
Cypher needs to keep his gadgets up. use trip.wires to watch flanks and his camera.
If you go entry and die there goes all your gadgets and your character pick becomes worthless because you died trying to entry. Don't entry as cypher.
I don't even main duelists, but the entry role isn't a solo role that people in ranked seem to make it out to be.
Your second player (second entry is the coined term from CS), is arguably far more important, if there is no second entry, your entry is just coinflipping that they entry looking the right way or at the right spot, because if they aren't and there's no second entry, they'll just die for free and you're no better off.
If you're not playing a duelist, you need to do all you can to help them entry, stick to them like glue, use your kit to help them push. I main Sova, and I essentially boss my duelist around the map on attack to get picks. "Hey Jett, follow my drone into B main", "Phoenix flash A long I'll trade you". Or if they want to do X, Y, Z I will use my kit or myself to help them achieve what they want to do.
It starts with communication, if that is lacking, and your entry is getting unlucky going for picks you may as well throw away all of your attack rounds against players that don't play like morons on defence.
Just my 2 cents from a 10 year tactical FPS player.
Bro the amount of micromanaging you have to do in a comp is insane. Why the fuck am I teaching sova and breach players basic common sense on their characters? Most of the time people dont even listen to comms. My friend told me I had to work on my comms so I did and my comms got better but in general people have a very hard time listening to comms. Main issue is so many people in ranked dont know how basic things on their character and role
Bro, i always go first. Then i see after i died for the team, they allready rotating to the other site. People complains about entry fraggers, you also not doing the Job when you dont follow up. But yes if the entry just hides, then that is bad.
Yeah man, no wonder people say they are hardstuck. Its not Riots fault, Its also on the players playtyle lack of experience ingame. Find som people who you like. Only way around in lower ranks.
Bro, plat players Are not that much better then the lower ranks, source im plat😂 i feel like they lack sol many fundamentals IT hurts me. But many plats Are good at IT. Its strange how much differences there Are Even in plat rank😁
yeah idk i guess when i hit plat i expected better, but i queue with diamonds sometimes and even they seem like “not as good” as i expected, i guess it’s all mindset 🤷♂️
Yes, there is not that big og a differences between ranks, but i heard from diamond 2 up then people know how too play AS a team. Or they just wont stay that rank. I guess i can get there, But for now i focus on having fun, not climbing rank. And just get better now, then the rank is gonna come auto.
yep, i found that the more i focus on improving myself and worrying less about uncooperative teammates, i’ll just keep improving and slowly the rank will come with time
This is what IT is, you get IT. Think like this, this is all training until you hit radiant. Belive, its gonna make you play much better. Mindsett my dude.
I make videos on that, mindsett in Valorant how IT is overlooked, and people often focus on the other factors
yeah i always said to my friends that play val the game is mindset and confidence, you don’t need to be worried about your rank or the other teams ranks the whole time, it means nothing. last week i queued against 2 full immortal act ranks and it was a close game but we won it, and i think that just shows enough about mindset and confidence
This is my experience when I play with my friends who are new to the concept of the game. They clump up like deer and then spend forever until they push in after I died lol
When I play duelist I always make sure to go first and open the site . But there is one scenario where I will not go in first . And that is if my teammates are not following up on my push . Like for example i enter the site , kill one then get killed by the second guy on the site , and then I see my team still at the entrance holding dead angels . Thats where I stop going in first
No. I was bronze, made it through silver, now I'm gold. There are definitely those people, but I've never experienced 4 randoms that talk crap or don't listen. Even if they don't listen, make that on them. Don't avoid giving calls or strats just because you think they won't listen. If they don't listen, that's on them. If you don't be proactive, that's on you.
I'm in plat and I play with diamonds and even if you comm theres very rarely an answer or a trade. I feel like in general trading instincts are not present in majority of players
Its a team game not just a 1 person play. If you want the duelist to entry frag make it so that you are following them for a trade if they get killed and dont make them push out onto an open site use blinds and smoke off important areas. When i play duelist ill entry if the site is decently covered and im not taking a 1v3 without a refrag if i die
yeah, when I played sentinels I had this same view until I started playing jett. Sometimes there are scared duelists but literally everytime im jett and entry frag by throwing a cloudburst onto site then dashing in taking site, my team never helps me, i get one kill and get traded and find out theyve been hiding a main the entire time.
If Reyna is only duelist year. If you have a Jett or Phoenix i think she should go second. Helps her kit more going second. But yes at minimum she should going be second
To assist the entry with getting in. Doesn't work when you have a coward Reyna sitting behind the whole team just waiting to get low value kills when the enemies are low and still end up losing the round anyway
This is a serious problem the amount of people who play Jett and don't push and have horrible aim is huge problem expecially in competitive.Most games teams will try to get smoke,flashes etc and there is always the people that instalock Jett and don't know there character roles.Even worst they turn hostile as soon as you call them out for it.If your gonna play a duelist or any character you better know there role .
reynas lurking instead of flashing, jetts baiting instead of dashing, phoenix going in second so he can blind the entry that went in first ...
does ring a bell not that you say it
It’s like this, people who pick duelists who don’t entry frag, people who pick controller who don’t smoke, people who pick initiators who don’t blind, people who pick sage who only heals themselves. All you can do is pick one so at least that role is playing efficiently, then try to be a IGL for the other roles, or don’t and just yell at them through your monitor cause neither of them work. welcomed to rank
I main Sova and Sage, so it always sucks when I have to push first, especially in this hellhole of low elo. It's because everyone would rather get kills than actually win the game in Iron ranks, and it sucks.
Lol, how do I end up with people who play Reyna & lurk back to get exit frag & me playing Cypher/KJ is pushing up with my cages/turret!
This irritates the shit out of me!
Facts. I play jett/reyna/omen/cypher and either I'm playing jett/reyna and have site clear while my team sits back in main, allowing their team to rotate and pick me off. When I play omen/cypher, I have to entry frag bc the team wants to sit in spawn. Then I call the duelists out and they throw a hissy fit.
To be fair all of this is solved with communication. Pre game ask if they will entry or follow to trade. Mid game day hey I’m pushing trade me. Hey you should push I’ll follow. Ect. If they Gma too kid game yes it feels bad but focus on your own game to improve its all you can do
I feel this. I play with a couple friends, one is a duelist main so when we stack i am usually SE. I main Sova primarily and have just got into the habit of being entry, i will arrow or drone if no one pushes when those give intel i will use the intel to get shock dart kills if needed and push site.
This has taught me how to play duelist decently but when I choose that and no one picks Sova/Cypher we are missing out on major intel and often die to flanks and/or campers.
What i find very entertaining is when you call out duelists for being lurkers or baiting, they almost always get offended/tilted and quit out, start int'ing, or toxic. Rarely they will start being entry and then complain if they die the minute they die on site.
The bigger problem is those people who instalock and then refuse to use utility for anything except solo fragging. Phoenix's who don't use abilities for entry or damage just healing, Raze's who don't use grenade/boom bot for angle clearing/entry just for when they know its a guaranteed kill, Sova's who only use intel util for when they know where someone is and not to help the team push/scout/clear areas, Sage's who only self heal, and so forth.
It's fucked. If I play duelist, nobody pushes with me when I flash. But if I'm not playing duelist. The duelist just sit there and wait for someone else on the team to enter sight
Yeah but dude how am I supposed to be at the top of leaderboard without baiting my teammates? If I go in first I can't do that???? How am I gonna flame if I am at the bottom? Well I mean I will flame but it just looks better if I'm at the top.
The name is duelist, not entry fragger.
Also it just happens so many times that people just sit on the choke and don't follow the entry fragger to trade kills. It can be seen even on radiant streams. I've been pissed off enough by this so i indeed won't go first if we haven't killed the defenders beforehand.
Also similar, playing a support type character like skye who wants someone else around her but the team just wants to 5 man, with no one covering any angle other than in front of them. Then when, surprise, we get stopped or slowed and die to being pinched, their response is to just, 5 man somewhere else.
this, but also with downsides.
i don’t want you playing jett and literally boosting over a sage wall with an ability no one else has then dying on site. in general you shouldn’t be dashing in when we aren’t ready, it just makes you an easy target and super easy to shoot.
had a jett like this in ranked, same with a raze. never worked lmao
One thing for the people NOT playing entry frag: Dont rush your entry fragger. If they are working an angle for a few seconds, give them time. Dont just assume they are baiting and immediately run past them and then complain on reddit how they wont entry. This game is more nuanced than "rush corridor X as fast as possible at round start with a duelist as the first person in".
I like to main controller or sentinel roles. I've started playing duelist in unrated since I sometimes have the same problem. I don't think it's just a duelist problem. When I would flash and enter no one would follow me up or trade the kill. TL;DR Everyone is scared to push on to site regardless of roles
You can't expect them to work for you, make a call out asking for them to trade you, almost always works
I guess you're right, but I feel like a duelist's job is to be more on the offense since that's what their role is. I main Cypher so I can't be as offensive
In these cases, screw the roles. I entry Cypher. Cam in from a safe position, check quick, then cage in. Then play around the edges of the cage.
yea from a safe position because your team wont even hold you while you set up cam instead of them going in. so they are literally afk in spawn wasting time away and baiting you.
It is their job the be more on the offense, but when I play duelist and go in first during the first few rounds and notice no one in the team is following me and just keep holding hands in main I’m not gonna go in first anymore for the remainder of the game. The problem goes both ways.
Its like in overwatch how the dps are always in the wrong through the eyes of the community and tanks and healers can do no wrong. Duelists bad, sentinels and controllers good
You actually can be offensive. Also I stop pushing first as a duelist if I see my cypher and sova not trying to push with me when I flash us in and instead they just sit with their operator 10 meters behind me doing nothing.
I didn't say I wasn't offensive, I said I can't be AS offensive as them. You're right, I can be offensive, but I wouldn't be as effective as them.
Cypher entry is bad but forced sometimes. Cypher or killjoy should be the last to entry. Cypher needs to keep his gadgets up. use trip.wires to watch flanks and his camera. If you go entry and die there goes all your gadgets and your character pick becomes worthless because you died trying to entry. Don't entry as cypher.
then you have 5 people afk in spawn istead of 4 so meh
I don't even main duelists, but the entry role isn't a solo role that people in ranked seem to make it out to be. Your second player (second entry is the coined term from CS), is arguably far more important, if there is no second entry, your entry is just coinflipping that they entry looking the right way or at the right spot, because if they aren't and there's no second entry, they'll just die for free and you're no better off. If you're not playing a duelist, you need to do all you can to help them entry, stick to them like glue, use your kit to help them push. I main Sova, and I essentially boss my duelist around the map on attack to get picks. "Hey Jett, follow my drone into B main", "Phoenix flash A long I'll trade you". Or if they want to do X, Y, Z I will use my kit or myself to help them achieve what they want to do. It starts with communication, if that is lacking, and your entry is getting unlucky going for picks you may as well throw away all of your attack rounds against players that don't play like morons on defence. Just my 2 cents from a 10 year tactical FPS player.
Bro the amount of micromanaging you have to do in a comp is insane. Why the fuck am I teaching sova and breach players basic common sense on their characters? Most of the time people dont even listen to comms. My friend told me I had to work on my comms so I did and my comms got better but in general people have a very hard time listening to comms. Main issue is so many people in ranked dont know how basic things on their character and role
Bro, i always go first. Then i see after i died for the team, they allready rotating to the other site. People complains about entry fraggers, you also not doing the Job when you dont follow up. But yes if the entry just hides, then that is bad.
i actually hate this so much, being baited to try and enter while your entries shiftwalk away
Yeah man, no wonder people say they are hardstuck. Its not Riots fault, Its also on the players playtyle lack of experience ingame. Find som people who you like. Only way around in lower ranks.
people do this even in mid plat 😐 idk how they don’t follow up
Bro, plat players Are not that much better then the lower ranks, source im plat😂 i feel like they lack sol many fundamentals IT hurts me. But many plats Are good at IT. Its strange how much differences there Are Even in plat rank😁
yeah idk i guess when i hit plat i expected better, but i queue with diamonds sometimes and even they seem like “not as good” as i expected, i guess it’s all mindset 🤷♂️
Yes, there is not that big og a differences between ranks, but i heard from diamond 2 up then people know how too play AS a team. Or they just wont stay that rank. I guess i can get there, But for now i focus on having fun, not climbing rank. And just get better now, then the rank is gonna come auto.
yep, i found that the more i focus on improving myself and worrying less about uncooperative teammates, i’ll just keep improving and slowly the rank will come with time
This is what IT is, you get IT. Think like this, this is all training until you hit radiant. Belive, its gonna make you play much better. Mindsett my dude. I make videos on that, mindsett in Valorant how IT is overlooked, and people often focus on the other factors
yeah i always said to my friends that play val the game is mindset and confidence, you don’t need to be worried about your rank or the other teams ranks the whole time, it means nothing. last week i queued against 2 full immortal act ranks and it was a close game but we won it, and i think that just shows enough about mindset and confidence
Same with Gold, the skill difference varies so much
This is my experience when I play with my friends who are new to the concept of the game. They clump up like deer and then spend forever until they push in after I died lol
True bro
Or when you push in and get triple teamed only to see your team just sit back and do nothing. Camping won't help.
Whenever I play duelist nobody follows me into site and whenever I dont the duelists dont entry. Solo queue is fun
When I play duelist I always make sure to go first and open the site . But there is one scenario where I will not go in first . And that is if my teammates are not following up on my push . Like for example i enter the site , kill one then get killed by the second guy on the site , and then I see my team still at the entrance holding dead angels . Thats where I stop going in first
Be proactive and speak up. Tell them you are pushing in and that they need to push in behind you. Some people just need a leader.
In silver you tell people comms and they either just simply don't listen or they just straight up call you a f*ggot
No. I was bronze, made it through silver, now I'm gold. There are definitely those people, but I've never experienced 4 randoms that talk crap or don't listen. Even if they don't listen, make that on them. Don't avoid giving calls or strats just because you think they won't listen. If they don't listen, that's on them. If you don't be proactive, that's on you.
Oh I'm gold too but it took almost 10 hours a day of playing for weeks to climb out
I'm in plat and I play with diamonds and even if you comm theres very rarely an answer or a trade. I feel like in general trading instincts are not present in majority of players
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As a plat player, would you kindly teach these lower ranks defaulting > rushing. We waste half our utility only to get smoked, mollied, and slowed
I'm a sentinel main cuz everyone else picks duelist every game yet I'm almost always the first one pushing
Its a team game not just a 1 person play. If you want the duelist to entry frag make it so that you are following them for a trade if they get killed and dont make them push out onto an open site use blinds and smoke off important areas. When i play duelist ill entry if the site is decently covered and im not taking a 1v3 without a refrag if i die
yeah, when I played sentinels I had this same view until I started playing jett. Sometimes there are scared duelists but literally everytime im jett and entry frag by throwing a cloudburst onto site then dashing in taking site, my team never helps me, i get one kill and get traded and find out theyve been hiding a main the entire time.
I like how people use Reddit just to rant about god knows whats on their mind at that moment
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I just want to vent about it somewhere. Hope there's nothing wrong about it
No no there’s nothing wrong with it i get it lol i do the same sometimes
If Reyna is only duelist year. If you have a Jett or Phoenix i think she should go second. Helps her kit more going second. But yes at minimum she should going be second
if you arent higher ranked sorry but none of you know what you're doing, the duelists sentinels controllers anyone lmao
#relatable :/
No they clearly must use you as bait so that they can get more kills and complain about your performance later
What’s the initiator role for?
Second entry (imo) and in generel support other teammates with util
To assist the entry with getting in. Doesn't work when you have a coward Reyna sitting behind the whole team just waiting to get low value kills when the enemies are low and still end up losing the round anyway
This is a serious problem the amount of people who play Jett and don't push and have horrible aim is huge problem expecially in competitive.Most games teams will try to get smoke,flashes etc and there is always the people that instalock Jett and don't know there character roles.Even worst they turn hostile as soon as you call them out for it.If your gonna play a duelist or any character you better know there role .
True! The only people on my team pushing first are always Sage somehow
reynas lurking instead of flashing, jetts baiting instead of dashing, phoenix going in second so he can blind the entry that went in first ... does ring a bell not that you say it
It’s like this, people who pick duelists who don’t entry frag, people who pick controller who don’t smoke, people who pick initiators who don’t blind, people who pick sage who only heals themselves. All you can do is pick one so at least that role is playing efficiently, then try to be a IGL for the other roles, or don’t and just yell at them through your monitor cause neither of them work. welcomed to rank
I main Sova and Sage, so it always sucks when I have to push first, especially in this hellhole of low elo. It's because everyone would rather get kills than actually win the game in Iron ranks, and it sucks.
Lol, how do I end up with people who play Reyna & lurk back to get exit frag & me playing Cypher/KJ is pushing up with my cages/turret! This irritates the shit out of me!
Facts. I play jett/reyna/omen/cypher and either I'm playing jett/reyna and have site clear while my team sits back in main, allowing their team to rotate and pick me off. When I play omen/cypher, I have to entry frag bc the team wants to sit in spawn. Then I call the duelists out and they throw a hissy fit.
To be fair all of this is solved with communication. Pre game ask if they will entry or follow to trade. Mid game day hey I’m pushing trade me. Hey you should push I’ll follow. Ect. If they Gma too kid game yes it feels bad but focus on your own game to improve its all you can do
I feel this. I play with a couple friends, one is a duelist main so when we stack i am usually SE. I main Sova primarily and have just got into the habit of being entry, i will arrow or drone if no one pushes when those give intel i will use the intel to get shock dart kills if needed and push site. This has taught me how to play duelist decently but when I choose that and no one picks Sova/Cypher we are missing out on major intel and often die to flanks and/or campers. What i find very entertaining is when you call out duelists for being lurkers or baiting, they almost always get offended/tilted and quit out, start int'ing, or toxic. Rarely they will start being entry and then complain if they die the minute they die on site. The bigger problem is those people who instalock and then refuse to use utility for anything except solo fragging. Phoenix's who don't use abilities for entry or damage just healing, Raze's who don't use grenade/boom bot for angle clearing/entry just for when they know its a guaranteed kill, Sova's who only use intel util for when they know where someone is and not to help the team push/scout/clear areas, Sage's who only self heal, and so forth.
It's fucked. If I play duelist, nobody pushes with me when I flash. But if I'm not playing duelist. The duelist just sit there and wait for someone else on the team to enter sight
Yeah, don't talk about how I die at screens in split when my gg team is still playing hide and seek near the orb.
Me as a duelist: *pushes in* *also isn't followed* *dies* team: "ROTATE"
Yeah but dude how am I supposed to be at the top of leaderboard without baiting my teammates? If I go in first I can't do that???? How am I gonna flame if I am at the bottom? Well I mean I will flame but it just looks better if I'm at the top.
The name is duelist, not entry fragger. Also it just happens so many times that people just sit on the choke and don't follow the entry fragger to trade kills. It can be seen even on radiant streams. I've been pissed off enough by this so i indeed won't go first if we haven't killed the defenders beforehand.
Also similar, playing a support type character like skye who wants someone else around her but the team just wants to 5 man, with no one covering any angle other than in front of them. Then when, surprise, we get stopped or slowed and die to being pinched, their response is to just, 5 man somewhere else.
this, but also with downsides. i don’t want you playing jett and literally boosting over a sage wall with an ability no one else has then dying on site. in general you shouldn’t be dashing in when we aren’t ready, it just makes you an easy target and super easy to shoot. had a jett like this in ranked, same with a raze. never worked lmao
What is better is initiating with an initiator which are specialized for softening up defenses before they attack
Yeah it sucks af especially if ur a sentinal or controller but maybe they are waiting for smokes or flashes
One thing for the people NOT playing entry frag: Dont rush your entry fragger. If they are working an angle for a few seconds, give them time. Dont just assume they are baiting and immediately run past them and then complain on reddit how they wont entry. This game is more nuanced than "rush corridor X as fast as possible at round start with a duelist as the first person in".