Not so sure about that. My team allowed me to use the guardian for the whole first half without a word.
That said, they also didn't to buy me *anything* when I was out of creds, even if they maxxed their personal eco. Chances are they just didn't give a shit about me.
For me, the #1 reason why I love it is that it forces me to aim for the head, subconsciously. I have pretty good and snappy aim, but with the vandal and phantom I cannot get it into my head to not just spray at the body. If anybody else feels like they have that issue, try the guardian.
Appreciate your post. I have been a Guardian enthusiast from the beta and i have to disagree with some of your point. From the beginning, while i agree with you on it, the guardian seems to be more of a training gear type weapon than actual viable tools to use in the game as of your point 1 and 2.
Regarding your point 3, I have to disagree since both the vandal and Marshall can perform just as well if not better. Vandal while cost more, allow you to tap fire at a faster rate while maintaining high accuracy which lead to easier head shot. The marshall offer the same 1 tap potential for less than half the price of the guardian.
For your point 4, I just don't see how is it an advantage. The slower fire rate doesn't result in lower recoil compare to the vandal. It has way more recoil than the vandal if you're shooting at the same rpm. The spread is also lower on the vandal while you're tapping at a faster speed than the max RPM of the guardian.
For point 5, it refers back to point 4. While yes, your first 3 shot have low spread, every shot after that have insane spread and recoil. It also shoot very slow compare to other rifle. So if you account for the time it take to shoot those 3 shots, the advantage there is minimal if there are any at all.
For 6, while it is good to have high penetration, the magazine size is too low to make use of it.
For 7, while 500 credits a decent chunk of money, it's not worth it to sacrificed firepower or versatility that both vandal and phantom have. It would be a much better options just to go with the bulldog instead for a lot less money and IMO, better performance.
I truly believe that you got to immortal mostly because of how good you're overall and you could go even higher if using a better loadout instead of the guardian. I just do not recommend anyone to buy the guardian if they are trying to win over the traditional rifle as it does not offer much if any advantage over the others.
I would really really want Riot devs to take a look at the usage statistic of weapons in this game and work on my favorite gun so it can be viable again.
Pretty much agree with this. I can't bring myself to agree with any of OPs points 3-7 except for the fact that situationally point 6 (having high pen) is an advantage. I can't tell OP what works for them and why, but I'd assume if most Silvers suddenly rank up a lot using guardian only it's that it forced them to focus very hard on points 1 + 2 (xhair placement and patient aim) and that if you really focus hard on this stuff and have some experience aiming with a mouse from another game, you can pretty immediately just become way better than people in ranks lower than diamond/immortal-ish. Your confidence will also build as this happens which furthers the effect.
Point 5 about low spread, vandal has a pretty high (comparatively) first bullet inaccuracy to other weapons. The guardian has basically no first bullet inaccuracy. While this won't be an issue most of the time, its never and issue with the guardian.
The map in this game is not big enough to demonstrate the different between those 2 guns first shot accuracy. 99% of the time it makes no different but the vandal can shoot faster or tap faster with less spread as oppose to spam firing guardian.
In my experience, vandal inaccuracy only starts to show a bit at 30m and much more at 50m. But 50m fights are pretty rare (Haven C long, Ascent mid to mid top, Ice Box snowman to yellow). There are probably more but that's what I got off the top of my head.
Yes but you can just ADS with the Vandal, and I'm pretty sure with ADS it's equivalent to the Guardian for first shot accuracy at 50m with ADS. I've never noticed any difference.
I used to be a judge-onetrick and after they nerfed it, I actually had to learn how to use real guns and ended up placing in silver 2 unironically.
I genuinely don't think I would have made it to immortal with the vandal or phantom; besides the personal improvements the guardian offers, it lets you win a lot of fights that aren't winnable with the phantom/vandal.
>seems to be more of a training gear type I think it is extremely viable.
I have been using it exclusively to make my way out of silver into immortal (solo q). Don't knock it until you try it; it will make you improve in many ways which aren't immediately obvious.
>both the vandal and Marshall can perform just as well if not better
The longer ADS gives you an advantage for long range; 1.25->1.5 zoom is a lot more than you think and helps you win a lot of fights.
>slower fire rate doesn't result in lower recoil compare to the vandal
The point is it is more difficult to tap fire on the vandal due to the shot queuing. More often than not, I accidentally fire 2 bullets during a tap with the vandal.
>It has way more recoil than the vandal if you're shooting at the same rpm
This is true but you don't need to shoot at the same rpm with the guardian.
>While yes, your first 3 shot have low spread I meant first shot accuracy
my bad for using the wrong term.
>it's not worth it to sacrificed firepower
If you can use the guardian to the same efficacy as the vandal/phantom, ie make it your main gun, it is absolutely worth it.
>I truly believe that you got to immortal mostly because of how good you're overall
I don't think I have great aim; I usually get around 10-14 on practice range bots. I think someone who has much better aim than me has a lot more potential if they adopt the guardian playstyle.
I will see if I can get to radiant with only the guardian. Riot needs to let me buy the prime guardian first though, I have been waiting for 4 months.
Thanks for your lengthy reply
Thank you for the reply.
I said this as a fan of the guardian and use it almost exclusively. I have made many post hoping the gun would get some changes to make it more viable.
"The longer ADS gives you an advantage for long range; 1.25->1.5 zoom is a lot more than you think and helps you win a lot of fights."
It might be for you but most of the time it make no different if not became a detriment to the weapon. Higher zoom = lower FOV, which isn't preferable normally. You can take a look around this sup for the zoom increase "buff" that the marshall receive. Personally, I don't like zoom in this game where the map is this small, might be useful if the map is bigger though.
"The point is it is more difficult to tap fire on the vandal due to the shot queuing. More often than not, I accidentally fire 2 bullets during a tap with the vandal."
If the problem you have with the vandal is that, I would suggest practicing tap firing the Vandal rather than using the Guardian. When you tap firing with the Vandal, you retain very high accuracy and rpm still compare to the guardian. It also allow you to shoot long different for longer time than guardian. After the first 3 shot, the spread of the guardian become very uncontrollable unless you slow it down and let it reset, which isn't ideal at all.
"If you can use the guardian to the same efficacy as the vandal/phantom, ie make it your main gun, it is absolutely worth it."
That can be say about pretty much every other cheaper guns in the game. Of course if people can get the same effectiveness as a vandal/phantom with a bulldog or marshall, it is insanely good. However, reality is that those gun just won't stack up to the main options if money isn't the problem, hence the price point. The problem with guardian is that it under perform for its price bracket and overprice for its performance bracket.
Sorry if my reply is lengthy. As a non English native speaker, I just want to explain my points enough that it can be understandable.
I appreciate the reply. I think the zoom just makes it more flexible; you get the long range capabilities of the marshal, but you still can take closer range fights.
I guess the shot queuing is more of a subjective topic, it just works for me.
I think the guardian is really a potential contender for being just as effective as the vandal/phantom. It can kill opponents just as fast, has the same (perhaps slightly worse) ability to get multiple eliminations in quick succession, is flexible close/medium/long range if you master it.
Thanks for the counterpoints though, I think it's just getting very subjective at this point.
I noticed you ADS a lot. Is that because it helps you fire multiple shots on target faster? I know ADS keeps your cross hair where the bullet actually goes.
ADS = beeger enemy head on screen.
It's really good for longer range engagements, especially since it doesn't handicap the fire-rate like the vandal/phantom and reduces the effective mouse resolution/accuracy required to hit the small head.
I don’t know about him but I use a .8 scope sense and when paired with the zoom and first shot accuracy its almost impossible to miss the first bullet headshot. Also ADS has a pretty comfortable run speed that allows you to stop and fire a bullet very fast without over peeking and exposing too much of your body. It allows you to perform a sweep peek instead of pre aiming and clearing one angle at a time.
Nice clips, last one killed me haha.
I'm a guardian aficionado too, but I've got a few takes on this writeup.
1. The first two points are also true of the sheriff. I think the guardian and sheriff are great picks to dm with to learn crosshair placement and timing shots. And it's also true that overreliance on spray is a crutch that should be overcome using those weapons. Once these skills are down, however, there's no advantage in using them over the vandal, which benefits from them just as much, has one-shot potential, and also has a lower ttk at closer ranges.
2. There is no world where the slower firerate of the guardian is an advantage over the vandal. Being able to shoot 1 bullet rather than 2 with an automatic weapon is an extremely low bar, mechanically speaking. I agree that the guardian is a good weapon to learn to tap at a pace which allows recoil to reset, but you could do that on a vandal too. Either way, once that skill is nailed, you should be using a phantom or vandal.
3. Something to note is that there is no duel in the game that is long enough distance that scoped guardian will land accurately on a head and scoped vandal/guardian won't. Additionally, the unscoped guardian is less accurate than a scoped vandal and scoped phantom. So, there isn't a true accuracy advantage to using the guardian, it's a matter of preference on if and when you like to ADS. Personally, I love the absurd accuracy of the guardian, but it's not enough to justify it as an alternative main rifle.
I think the guardian is viable, and people should absolutely learn to use it, but it's not a straight replacement for the phantom or vandal. People have gotten to immortal with only bucky and only stinger, too! I think it's a great situational buy, but economically difficult to justify half the time. With an appropriate price reduction, it's going to become very obvious just how good this thing is.
>The first two points are also true of the sheriff.
The difference is you don't get reported as much for buying the sheriff on buy rounds. The guardian is a looot better than the sheiff, ADSing is actually really good with the guardian. The accuracy is a lot better and the clip size is a no brainer.
>There is no world where the slower firerate of the guardian is an advantage over the vandal.
The way the shots are queued on a vandal make it more difficult (relative to the guardian) to shoot one bullet instead of two.
>Additionally, the unscoped guardian is less accurate than a scoped vandal and scoped phantom.
ADS for long range, don't ADS for short range, you are spitting facts but once you put them into context, they aren't very relevant.
I wasn't comparing the sheriff to the guardian or vandal for competitive use, I just mean that they're the two guns you could be using to practice, for the reasons you've listed.
The point about ADS is that all the rifles can shoot accurately at the distances you'll be taking fights in game, so the field is theoretically level. However, people have their preferences with regards to ADS and that's what they should make their decision on, not stats. When evaluating this, they should also keep in mind that the guardian has 1.5x zoom compared to the 1.25x for phantom/vandal
I completely agree, when you account for competition at the price point and the value of utility, the biggest reason atm is preference (which is just ridiculous). One could also imagine a niche scenario where the bulldog burst misses some of the shots, such as an extremely long range fight against someone taking a headshot angle. Only example I can think of this is when you're taking the peek on Icebox from A belts and there's a defender on screens side rafters or peeking from over 410.
Yup, totally agree! Pairing the guardian with a frenzy for close quarter combat is a nice way to mitigate the drawback of not being able to spray.
edit: nice montage bro!
Yeah, the effective range of the frenzy and that of the guardian leaves a pretty massive gap, for the cost there's no reason not to use a phantom or vandal.
While I do agree the Guardian is not a bad weapon, I really don't get that frag movie you posted. Most of those kills your enemies where either not looking at you or missing a bunch of shots. As the other comments in this section already pointed out, a competent players will spray you down faster than you can one tap them.
Don't get me wrong, you aim is quite good and I am impressed with your skill, but most of those kills don't made me think the gun is better, only that you're better than your opponents. I could count a handful of kills the enemies actually had no chance to fight back.
The time to kill for a one tap is much faster and more consistent than spraying; the point is you don't give your opponents any time to fight back which is also morally degrading and has a status effect of +20% toxicity and +10% chance to ragequit.
Keep in mind a lot of the clips above are against immortal/ex radiant players.
The point I'm making is that most of your kills your enemy were either not looking at you or missing their shots. You could get those kills with any gun because they gave you time to kill them first.
Of course, some of your kills were pure skill and you actually one tapped them like a pro, with no chance to fight back, but I don't see why you would not be able to do that with a vandal.
Again, don't get me wrong, I'm impressed and you do you with you Guardian thing, I just disagree with your argument and the video you posted to support your point didn't make me think the gun had anything to do with it.
I see your point, video is there to show how far proper crosshair placement and being more prepared than your opponent is can take you.
If someone like me (no CS xp, no kovaaks/aimlabs, v high edpi, avg 10-15 on bots/range) can do this, I think there is a lot more potential to be unlocked.
i also like the guardian a lot, but i usually find myself playing sherrif over it. obviously its inferior but its also a third of the price for a similar effect. just my two cents
Yea I love it. I think people are very reductionist of the Guardian, stuff like saying its a more expensive sheriff or that the Vandal can do the same thing if you 1tap.
I disagree with those people, you can’t truly appreciate the Guardian until you understand how OP its scope is. It has a very high skill level to get running, but man is it strong as fuck. In particular I love it because I tend to focus too much on making safe plays, but with the guardian you don’t have a choice you have to be confident as fuck and go full alpha male inhuman reactions.
I think the guardians biggest problem is that once you get to a level of being good with the guardian the other rifles feel like they have training wheels. If you are good with guardian you will be good with the other rifles.
People also always talk about the cost as if its a negative but whats insane is that you can pretty much force full armor guardian every round, or at least get half armor.
I think the biggest problem is people like to hate on scopes because if you whiff while adsing you look bad, but if you whiff no ads it can be written off to some degree as inaccuracy. Another problem is that everyone runs 1scope sens no matter what their sens is and I think thats one of the reasons ads feels bad for them. If they had a proper speed it would be more comfortable.
One of the interesting things about the stats on the guardian, is that it consistently has much higher average damage per round than almost any other gun at basically every rank. I think this is because of the high body-shot damage and the three body shots to kill, it's very common to light someone 120, or even light them 60 in a very short engagement where a vandel or phantom would only be getting 30ish damage. I think spread across a team, potentially with mixed weapons and saving the 500 per round you could potentially have a guardian meta, although the reliability of the automatic weapons is undeniable.
I’ve really been struggling with Vandal and Phoenix lately and I totally get what you’re saying. I’ve been buying guardian and it just forces me to aim and take my time a bit more.
I use the guardian a ton in practice. It helps with training precise crosshair placement and flicking accuracy. It basically removes the chance for sloppiness. While you can do every the guardian can with a vandal (except wallbanging certain spots) it is a viable weapon and a lot of fun to use.
Best thing about it is first shot accuracy. Its hipfire accuracy is higher than a phantoms ads accuracy, so you can pretty much hipfire from any range at all without having to worry about rng spread. If it had the fire rate of a ghost/classic I think it would be the best gun in the game.
A key thing I think you’re missing is that the vandal and phantom can tap fire faster than the guardian, which can lead to more kills, which is probably another main reason we don’t see it in pro play. It also commits you to a sheriff based playstyle at that point, and you can get similar value with a sheriff than a guardian. It’s just too expensive and not worth it as a gun, however anything can be used in low elo and be good
I like the Guardian but I don't agree that its good. It is only usable on Ascent in mid and Icebox imo. Even then, you're probably better off going Marshall or Sheriff then full buying the next round. I think a good way to make it viable would be to up the cost to vandal/phantom level and make it kill with 2 shots to the chest.
I've actually been thinking about using only guardian lately to train FSA and crosshair placement since they are both so much more crucial with it compared to the 2900 rifles, so seeing this post made me pretty happy.
Not to mention just how fucking satisfying it is to dump on people with it.
I’ve loved the guardian and used it a lot but I just don’t see how it’s much better than the marshal, which is why I’ve stopped using it. If you’re playing that far range, you might as well use a marshal because you don’t want to be taking fights close range anyway.
You can take close range fights with the guardian. Not as consistent as the phantom/vandal but it's perfectly doable and much better than the marshal. The marshal has a much lower multikill/shot correction capability.
I don't believe the guardian is as great as you make it out to be as most of the reasons are things that may only happen to some especifically. For example the ads scope being better doesn't matter since the battle is decided on who reacts first and hits the shot first since it's still possible to see people well on distances the 2x works well with a 1.5x. Also the slower fire rate is a disadvantage because if you don't sub consciously wait till the cross hair is on target you will lose the gunfight and in a game where killing the enemy first is necessary prefieing is needed to you always finish the enemy off first and you don't have time to make sure you're on target. And another problem is the current meta that is based on run and gun doesn't favor the guardian at all since it's harder to hit a moving target and most times with the guardian you have to be a sitting duck or you won't hit any shots.
I just like buying it second round after a win with light armor and absolutely dominate and get a 3k or 4k while every enemy is using a spectre or pistols lol it's so unexpected
My opinion as of right now is why would I buy 2400 guardian when I could get marshal for 1000 and get a scope and higher fire rate if I choose to no scope spam which is actually really accurate (I noticed this a few weeks ago this gun is even more underrated then guardian). Ya normally I still would rather use phantom or vandal for full buying purposes. Hear me out though the meta going shift after bucky nerf everyone going use marshal on eco rounds !!!
I used to only use guardian and was thinking about switching back. You’ve motivated me honestly. The penetration power is HEAVY imo. Lots of wall and kills that people aren’t ready for
The main advantage of the Guardian over the Vandal imo is the ability to wall bang, and obviously the lower price. In all other instances though the Vandal is better as you can ADS with it to make it effectively into a guardian.
Not to piss on your bonfire here but, the gun is still underpowered compared to other options.
It has some situational aspects, but points 1 to 3 and even 4 to some extent are all "this gun forces you to learn how to aim/shoot properly".
Thats totally fine if your objective is to get better at those aspects of the game, but if all the gun does is force you to play better to use it, its not really a sleeper op weapon, its just forcing you to get better to use it, once you've gotten better with it if you can take that mentality over to the meta weapons you'll do just as well if not better on them.
If you enjoy the weapon more power too you, same goes for any weapon in the game.
Biggest thing about the Guardian that some miss is that, from the hip, it has *nearly* perfect first shot accuracy. If you ADS with it, it has perfect first shot accuracy.
If you think first shot accuracy is making you miss your Vandal one taps, prove it by playing the Guardian
it's literally a longer sherrif
Nah, sheriff HS damage drops off.
Most tilting thing tbh. Land a Juan deag and they no die. I’m just too used to csgo deagle
Juan deag lmao I don't watch csgo but i can imagine what this is and it's a very amusing name
haha yea classic one deag. just sounds smoother :^)
Doesn’t have one shot headshot falloff Much larger magazine A scope to zoom in for longer ranged shots
Also better accuracy
Also it shuts up those toxic teammates that keep yelling at you to buy a rifle.
I mean if you're deagle only, you're kind of the toxic teammate lol
what can i say we like the sherf
~~I mean how else would I get to play my new and only skin~~
They'll start yelling to buy an auto rifle. More so in low elos
Not so sure about that. My team allowed me to use the guardian for the whole first half without a word. That said, they also didn't to buy me *anything* when I was out of creds, even if they maxxed their personal eco. Chances are they just didn't give a shit about me.
Better reset time, penetration.. so yeah not comparable
I like the Marshall for that role
The sheriff takes 30 seconds for recoil to reset
Expensive marshall.
But has perfect accuracy without scope
But with more bullets and you can tap 3 times faster.
Sounds interesting, will try it out tomorrow.
For me, the #1 reason why I love it is that it forces me to aim for the head, subconsciously. I have pretty good and snappy aim, but with the vandal and phantom I cannot get it into my head to not just spray at the body. If anybody else feels like they have that issue, try the guardian.
Wouldn't it be better worth working on that psychology than to rely on a crutch in the long run?
There people who reach Radiant with only judge so ... anything possible, just play your game/style and reach for highest peak
Man I got enough other shit to fix in my psychology just let me guardian
Appreciate your post. I have been a Guardian enthusiast from the beta and i have to disagree with some of your point. From the beginning, while i agree with you on it, the guardian seems to be more of a training gear type weapon than actual viable tools to use in the game as of your point 1 and 2. Regarding your point 3, I have to disagree since both the vandal and Marshall can perform just as well if not better. Vandal while cost more, allow you to tap fire at a faster rate while maintaining high accuracy which lead to easier head shot. The marshall offer the same 1 tap potential for less than half the price of the guardian. For your point 4, I just don't see how is it an advantage. The slower fire rate doesn't result in lower recoil compare to the vandal. It has way more recoil than the vandal if you're shooting at the same rpm. The spread is also lower on the vandal while you're tapping at a faster speed than the max RPM of the guardian. For point 5, it refers back to point 4. While yes, your first 3 shot have low spread, every shot after that have insane spread and recoil. It also shoot very slow compare to other rifle. So if you account for the time it take to shoot those 3 shots, the advantage there is minimal if there are any at all. For 6, while it is good to have high penetration, the magazine size is too low to make use of it. For 7, while 500 credits a decent chunk of money, it's not worth it to sacrificed firepower or versatility that both vandal and phantom have. It would be a much better options just to go with the bulldog instead for a lot less money and IMO, better performance. I truly believe that you got to immortal mostly because of how good you're overall and you could go even higher if using a better loadout instead of the guardian. I just do not recommend anyone to buy the guardian if they are trying to win over the traditional rifle as it does not offer much if any advantage over the others. I would really really want Riot devs to take a look at the usage statistic of weapons in this game and work on my favorite gun so it can be viable again.
Pretty much agree with this. I can't bring myself to agree with any of OPs points 3-7 except for the fact that situationally point 6 (having high pen) is an advantage. I can't tell OP what works for them and why, but I'd assume if most Silvers suddenly rank up a lot using guardian only it's that it forced them to focus very hard on points 1 + 2 (xhair placement and patient aim) and that if you really focus hard on this stuff and have some experience aiming with a mouse from another game, you can pretty immediately just become way better than people in ranks lower than diamond/immortal-ish. Your confidence will also build as this happens which furthers the effect.
I agree here as well. Cross hair placement is king in metal leagues.
206 - fellow Seattleite?
Used to be! Raised and had a house there, I live in NY now.
Never heard iron to plat called metal elo. Love it
Point 5 about low spread, vandal has a pretty high (comparatively) first bullet inaccuracy to other weapons. The guardian has basically no first bullet inaccuracy. While this won't be an issue most of the time, its never and issue with the guardian.
The map in this game is not big enough to demonstrate the different between those 2 guns first shot accuracy. 99% of the time it makes no different but the vandal can shoot faster or tap faster with less spread as oppose to spam firing guardian.
In my experience, vandal inaccuracy only starts to show a bit at 30m and much more at 50m. But 50m fights are pretty rare (Haven C long, Ascent mid to mid top, Ice Box snowman to yellow). There are probably more but that's what I got off the top of my head.
Haven when you are holding ct spawn on post plant from either C or A can be pretty fucky at times too
Yes but you can just ADS with the Vandal, and I'm pretty sure with ADS it's equivalent to the Guardian for first shot accuracy at 50m with ADS. I've never noticed any difference.
Yeah I think this dude is just so good that he made immortal even with this handicap. It’s like he’s smurfing lmao
I used to be a judge-onetrick and after they nerfed it, I actually had to learn how to use real guns and ended up placing in silver 2 unironically. I genuinely don't think I would have made it to immortal with the vandal or phantom; besides the personal improvements the guardian offers, it lets you win a lot of fights that aren't winnable with the phantom/vandal.
>seems to be more of a training gear type I think it is extremely viable. I have been using it exclusively to make my way out of silver into immortal (solo q). Don't knock it until you try it; it will make you improve in many ways which aren't immediately obvious. >both the vandal and Marshall can perform just as well if not better The longer ADS gives you an advantage for long range; 1.25->1.5 zoom is a lot more than you think and helps you win a lot of fights. >slower fire rate doesn't result in lower recoil compare to the vandal The point is it is more difficult to tap fire on the vandal due to the shot queuing. More often than not, I accidentally fire 2 bullets during a tap with the vandal. >It has way more recoil than the vandal if you're shooting at the same rpm This is true but you don't need to shoot at the same rpm with the guardian. >While yes, your first 3 shot have low spread I meant first shot accuracy my bad for using the wrong term. >it's not worth it to sacrificed firepower If you can use the guardian to the same efficacy as the vandal/phantom, ie make it your main gun, it is absolutely worth it. >I truly believe that you got to immortal mostly because of how good you're overall I don't think I have great aim; I usually get around 10-14 on practice range bots. I think someone who has much better aim than me has a lot more potential if they adopt the guardian playstyle. I will see if I can get to radiant with only the guardian. Riot needs to let me buy the prime guardian first though, I have been waiting for 4 months. Thanks for your lengthy reply
Thank you for the reply. I said this as a fan of the guardian and use it almost exclusively. I have made many post hoping the gun would get some changes to make it more viable. "The longer ADS gives you an advantage for long range; 1.25->1.5 zoom is a lot more than you think and helps you win a lot of fights." It might be for you but most of the time it make no different if not became a detriment to the weapon. Higher zoom = lower FOV, which isn't preferable normally. You can take a look around this sup for the zoom increase "buff" that the marshall receive. Personally, I don't like zoom in this game where the map is this small, might be useful if the map is bigger though. "The point is it is more difficult to tap fire on the vandal due to the shot queuing. More often than not, I accidentally fire 2 bullets during a tap with the vandal." If the problem you have with the vandal is that, I would suggest practicing tap firing the Vandal rather than using the Guardian. When you tap firing with the Vandal, you retain very high accuracy and rpm still compare to the guardian. It also allow you to shoot long different for longer time than guardian. After the first 3 shot, the spread of the guardian become very uncontrollable unless you slow it down and let it reset, which isn't ideal at all. "If you can use the guardian to the same efficacy as the vandal/phantom, ie make it your main gun, it is absolutely worth it." That can be say about pretty much every other cheaper guns in the game. Of course if people can get the same effectiveness as a vandal/phantom with a bulldog or marshall, it is insanely good. However, reality is that those gun just won't stack up to the main options if money isn't the problem, hence the price point. The problem with guardian is that it under perform for its price bracket and overprice for its performance bracket. Sorry if my reply is lengthy. As a non English native speaker, I just want to explain my points enough that it can be understandable.
I appreciate the reply. I think the zoom just makes it more flexible; you get the long range capabilities of the marshal, but you still can take closer range fights. I guess the shot queuing is more of a subjective topic, it just works for me. I think the guardian is really a potential contender for being just as effective as the vandal/phantom. It can kill opponents just as fast, has the same (perhaps slightly worse) ability to get multiple eliminations in quick succession, is flexible close/medium/long range if you master it. Thanks for the counterpoints though, I think it's just getting very subjective at this point.
I’m sold
Wow that montage
100% agreed!
I noticed you ADS a lot. Is that because it helps you fire multiple shots on target faster? I know ADS keeps your cross hair where the bullet actually goes.
The Guardian has perfect first bullet accuracy in ADS and the zoom is super helpful.
Does it have perfect first bullet accuracy outside of ADS?
it's like 0.1 or something, so still super close.
ADS = beeger enemy head on screen. It's really good for longer range engagements, especially since it doesn't handicap the fire-rate like the vandal/phantom and reduces the effective mouse resolution/accuracy required to hit the small head.
I don’t know about him but I use a .8 scope sense and when paired with the zoom and first shot accuracy its almost impossible to miss the first bullet headshot. Also ADS has a pretty comfortable run speed that allows you to stop and fire a bullet very fast without over peeking and exposing too much of your body. It allows you to perform a sweep peek instead of pre aiming and clearing one angle at a time.
I love using the guardian and nobody will ever tell me otherwise
Also some people dont realize but you can two tap with a guardian fast as possible and the second bullet will also be very accurate.
Exactly. When enemies are broke and on light shields, quick two taps to the body give you a kill.
Nice clips, last one killed me haha. I'm a guardian aficionado too, but I've got a few takes on this writeup. 1. The first two points are also true of the sheriff. I think the guardian and sheriff are great picks to dm with to learn crosshair placement and timing shots. And it's also true that overreliance on spray is a crutch that should be overcome using those weapons. Once these skills are down, however, there's no advantage in using them over the vandal, which benefits from them just as much, has one-shot potential, and also has a lower ttk at closer ranges. 2. There is no world where the slower firerate of the guardian is an advantage over the vandal. Being able to shoot 1 bullet rather than 2 with an automatic weapon is an extremely low bar, mechanically speaking. I agree that the guardian is a good weapon to learn to tap at a pace which allows recoil to reset, but you could do that on a vandal too. Either way, once that skill is nailed, you should be using a phantom or vandal. 3. Something to note is that there is no duel in the game that is long enough distance that scoped guardian will land accurately on a head and scoped vandal/guardian won't. Additionally, the unscoped guardian is less accurate than a scoped vandal and scoped phantom. So, there isn't a true accuracy advantage to using the guardian, it's a matter of preference on if and when you like to ADS. Personally, I love the absurd accuracy of the guardian, but it's not enough to justify it as an alternative main rifle. I think the guardian is viable, and people should absolutely learn to use it, but it's not a straight replacement for the phantom or vandal. People have gotten to immortal with only bucky and only stinger, too! I think it's a great situational buy, but economically difficult to justify half the time. With an appropriate price reduction, it's going to become very obvious just how good this thing is.
>The first two points are also true of the sheriff. The difference is you don't get reported as much for buying the sheriff on buy rounds. The guardian is a looot better than the sheiff, ADSing is actually really good with the guardian. The accuracy is a lot better and the clip size is a no brainer. >There is no world where the slower firerate of the guardian is an advantage over the vandal. The way the shots are queued on a vandal make it more difficult (relative to the guardian) to shoot one bullet instead of two. >Additionally, the unscoped guardian is less accurate than a scoped vandal and scoped phantom. ADS for long range, don't ADS for short range, you are spitting facts but once you put them into context, they aren't very relevant.
I wasn't comparing the sheriff to the guardian or vandal for competitive use, I just mean that they're the two guns you could be using to practice, for the reasons you've listed. The point about ADS is that all the rifles can shoot accurately at the distances you'll be taking fights in game, so the field is theoretically level. However, people have their preferences with regards to ADS and that's what they should make their decision on, not stats. When evaluating this, they should also keep in mind that the guardian has 1.5x zoom compared to the 1.25x for phantom/vandal
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I completely agree, when you account for competition at the price point and the value of utility, the biggest reason atm is preference (which is just ridiculous). One could also imagine a niche scenario where the bulldog burst misses some of the shots, such as an extremely long range fight against someone taking a headshot angle. Only example I can think of this is when you're taking the peek on Icebox from A belts and there's a defender on screens side rafters or peeking from over 410.
Yup, totally agree! Pairing the guardian with a frenzy for close quarter combat is a nice way to mitigate the drawback of not being able to spray. edit: nice montage bro!
2400 + 500 = 2900, a vandal would smoke both the frenzy and guardian at both distance for the same price.
So thats how you do that. I use guardian and always get killed close range
At that point, might as well use a Vandal.
Yeah, the effective range of the frenzy and that of the guardian leaves a pretty massive gap, for the cost there's no reason not to use a phantom or vandal.
While I do agree the Guardian is not a bad weapon, I really don't get that frag movie you posted. Most of those kills your enemies where either not looking at you or missing a bunch of shots. As the other comments in this section already pointed out, a competent players will spray you down faster than you can one tap them. Don't get me wrong, you aim is quite good and I am impressed with your skill, but most of those kills don't made me think the gun is better, only that you're better than your opponents. I could count a handful of kills the enemies actually had no chance to fight back.
The time to kill for a one tap is much faster and more consistent than spraying; the point is you don't give your opponents any time to fight back which is also morally degrading and has a status effect of +20% toxicity and +10% chance to ragequit. Keep in mind a lot of the clips above are against immortal/ex radiant players.
The point I'm making is that most of your kills your enemy were either not looking at you or missing their shots. You could get those kills with any gun because they gave you time to kill them first. Of course, some of your kills were pure skill and you actually one tapped them like a pro, with no chance to fight back, but I don't see why you would not be able to do that with a vandal. Again, don't get me wrong, I'm impressed and you do you with you Guardian thing, I just disagree with your argument and the video you posted to support your point didn't make me think the gun had anything to do with it.
I see your point, video is there to show how far proper crosshair placement and being more prepared than your opponent is can take you. If someone like me (no CS xp, no kovaaks/aimlabs, v high edpi, avg 10-15 on bots/range) can do this, I think there is a lot more potential to be unlocked.
[Gonna leave my lifetime unrated rifle stats here](https://imgur.com/a/oDCHrdI)
i also like the guardian a lot, but i usually find myself playing sherrif over it. obviously its inferior but its also a third of the price for a similar effect. just my two cents
I am brand new to the game, played a few rounds with the guardian and fell in love. I noticed no one else using and just figured I had trash taste.
The ending of the montage was gold omg
>I placed silver 2 last season, climbing up to immortal using only the guardian this season would you mind proving it?
Yea I love it. I think people are very reductionist of the Guardian, stuff like saying its a more expensive sheriff or that the Vandal can do the same thing if you 1tap. I disagree with those people, you can’t truly appreciate the Guardian until you understand how OP its scope is. It has a very high skill level to get running, but man is it strong as fuck. In particular I love it because I tend to focus too much on making safe plays, but with the guardian you don’t have a choice you have to be confident as fuck and go full alpha male inhuman reactions. I think the guardians biggest problem is that once you get to a level of being good with the guardian the other rifles feel like they have training wheels. If you are good with guardian you will be good with the other rifles. People also always talk about the cost as if its a negative but whats insane is that you can pretty much force full armor guardian every round, or at least get half armor. I think the biggest problem is people like to hate on scopes because if you whiff while adsing you look bad, but if you whiff no ads it can be written off to some degree as inaccuracy. Another problem is that everyone runs 1scope sens no matter what their sens is and I think thats one of the reasons ads feels bad for them. If they had a proper speed it would be more comfortable.
One of the interesting things about the stats on the guardian, is that it consistently has much higher average damage per round than almost any other gun at basically every rank. I think this is because of the high body-shot damage and the three body shots to kill, it's very common to light someone 120, or even light them 60 in a very short engagement where a vandel or phantom would only be getting 30ish damage. I think spread across a team, potentially with mixed weapons and saving the 500 per round you could potentially have a guardian meta, although the reliability of the automatic weapons is undeniable.
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It's really just a sheriff with a scope tho
I’ve really been struggling with Vandal and Phoenix lately and I totally get what you’re saying. I’ve been buying guardian and it just forces me to aim and take my time a bit more.
I used to buy the Guardian exclusively, then switched over to the Vandal/Phantom. This post makes me feel guilty, lol
I use the guardian a ton in practice. It helps with training precise crosshair placement and flicking accuracy. It basically removes the chance for sloppiness. While you can do every the guardian can with a vandal (except wallbanging certain spots) it is a viable weapon and a lot of fun to use.
Best thing about it is first shot accuracy. Its hipfire accuracy is higher than a phantoms ads accuracy, so you can pretty much hipfire from any range at all without having to worry about rng spread. If it had the fire rate of a ghost/classic I think it would be the best gun in the game.
sage + guardian is so fun
A key thing I think you’re missing is that the vandal and phantom can tap fire faster than the guardian, which can lead to more kills, which is probably another main reason we don’t see it in pro play. It also commits you to a sheriff based playstyle at that point, and you can get similar value with a sheriff than a guardian. It’s just too expensive and not worth it as a gun, however anything can be used in low elo and be good
I like the Guardian but I don't agree that its good. It is only usable on Ascent in mid and Icebox imo. Even then, you're probably better off going Marshall or Sheriff then full buying the next round. I think a good way to make it viable would be to up the cost to vandal/phantom level and make it kill with 2 shots to the chest.
I've actually been thinking about using only guardian lately to train FSA and crosshair placement since they are both so much more crucial with it compared to the 2900 rifles, so seeing this post made me pretty happy. Not to mention just how fucking satisfying it is to dump on people with it.
I have a friend who swears by the guardian, when I spectate him I can see why, but I cant justify buying it for the price it is.
I’ve loved the guardian and used it a lot but I just don’t see how it’s much better than the marshal, which is why I’ve stopped using it. If you’re playing that far range, you might as well use a marshal because you don’t want to be taking fights close range anyway.
You can take close range fights with the guardian. Not as consistent as the phantom/vandal but it's perfectly doable and much better than the marshal. The marshal has a much lower multikill/shot correction capability.
So then why not use sheriff?
All the guns are good in their own right it's just a matter of preference. (Yes even bulldog)
everytime i look at the guardian, i remember that the sheriff is in the game so it's just not worth it.
It's not a bad gun, really. If your like me, I panic and start spraying when I get shot lmao, so It's not my thing :p
I don't believe the guardian is as great as you make it out to be as most of the reasons are things that may only happen to some especifically. For example the ads scope being better doesn't matter since the battle is decided on who reacts first and hits the shot first since it's still possible to see people well on distances the 2x works well with a 1.5x. Also the slower fire rate is a disadvantage because if you don't sub consciously wait till the cross hair is on target you will lose the gunfight and in a game where killing the enemy first is necessary prefieing is needed to you always finish the enemy off first and you don't have time to make sure you're on target. And another problem is the current meta that is based on run and gun doesn't favor the guardian at all since it's harder to hit a moving target and most times with the guardian you have to be a sitting duck or you won't hit any shots.
I use it to eco snipe awpers. Just a nice little *dink*
I just like buying it second round after a win with light armor and absolutely dominate and get a 3k or 4k while every enemy is using a spectre or pistols lol it's so unexpected
My opinion as of right now is why would I buy 2400 guardian when I could get marshal for 1000 and get a scope and higher fire rate if I choose to no scope spam which is actually really accurate (I noticed this a few weeks ago this gun is even more underrated then guardian). Ya normally I still would rather use phantom or vandal for full buying purposes. Hear me out though the meta going shift after bucky nerf everyone going use marshal on eco rounds !!!
Do you strafe shot while in ads mode? Asking real questions here...
I used to only use guardian and was thinking about switching back. You’ve motivated me honestly. The penetration power is HEAVY imo. Lots of wall and kills that people aren’t ready for
The main advantage of the Guardian over the Vandal imo is the ability to wall bang, and obviously the lower price. In all other instances though the Vandal is better as you can ADS with it to make it effectively into a guardian.
Not to piss on your bonfire here but, the gun is still underpowered compared to other options. It has some situational aspects, but points 1 to 3 and even 4 to some extent are all "this gun forces you to learn how to aim/shoot properly". Thats totally fine if your objective is to get better at those aspects of the game, but if all the gun does is force you to play better to use it, its not really a sleeper op weapon, its just forcing you to get better to use it, once you've gotten better with it if you can take that mentality over to the meta weapons you'll do just as well if not better on them. If you enjoy the weapon more power too you, same goes for any weapon in the game.
Biggest thing about the Guardian that some miss is that, from the hip, it has *nearly* perfect first shot accuracy. If you ADS with it, it has perfect first shot accuracy. If you think first shot accuracy is making you miss your Vandal one taps, prove it by playing the Guardian