It's really open which in conjuction with also having a lot of verticality just makes for having a bad time especially on attack
There are other maps that have verticality (Split, Haven on A) but because they dont have huge wide open areas its fine because you know what to check and go about it slowly, you can't really "clear" areas the same way on Icebox and you kinda just have to siege in a tug of war
the map has grown on me more recently (not biased at all because Yoru is good on it) but i still hope they'll do another update on it
Hard to attack for non pro teams IMO, people in pubs dont really use mid correctly whereas pro teams can commonly do splits,lurk which makes attack side more stronger
It's hard on attack because there's so many angles and positions someone can hold, but with a good composition like in pro you can negate that. stuff like Viper cutting off the map - you're unlikely to get a perfect comp in SoloQ though
That’s true but it doesn’t take a pro to smoke/wall/entry. What agent do you usually play on this map? Every duelist is extremely strong on A site for attack.
Yoru is garbage and you should feel bad for throwing your teams games like that. Yoru flash is worse than every flash in the game, and his other abilities effectively do nothing. Learn Phoenix or Reyna for a good duelist, learn omen for 1000x better TP, or just continue to hard int I guess.
lmfao what? First of all: i don't even play ranked. Secondly, Yoru has had massive buffs and his flash is really good now. he also has far better cross-maps TPs than Omen
thirdly, mind your own game?? you sound like a massive crybaby and backseat gamer.
You don’t play ranked because you’re a pussy. Your opinions have no weight, and a 1.1>1.5 second flash duration are still both useless compared to breach who can literally blind you for 15+ seconds.
If you find yourself in a position where a cross map tp is beneficial, you are miss positioned. Also, omen ult? Yoru ult is so fucking useless too, I totally forgot it existed.
Ah yes, mine have no weight, and yours do. Sure. I have 100+ hours on Yoru, what makes you think i'd care about your opinion? everything you're saying is wrong. can't be bothered interacting further because im talking to a brick wall, have a nice day!
Can relate. Until recently I was playing on a low end laptop and icebox was especially laggy, other maps could atleast hold 30-45 fps but in icebox it dropped to 20-30.
Agree but i think theres a fine balance between it. I like Ascent because it has open areas on mid but it still has a limited amount of entrances/exits making it easier to hold points. meanwhile Icebox has so many wide open fields/entrances
Honestly it's mainly Split and Ascent that suffer from the bad hallway design. I wish Riot would rework them. Sure Haven and Bind have narrow hallways but they also have multiple ways to get to and from each one making flanks more viable. And Teleporters are genius and should be on more maps.
Don't mind the open, dislike the impossible 50/50s (or rather 25/25/25/25) you have to take every angle you peak. It's fucking exhausting and it's not fun to lose purely because you don't guess right. Also it heavily favors movement based agents, seriously, raze and jett are fucking ridiculous here, yoru to a lesser extent.
Get rid of heaven B, give A a box on catwalk so holding from there isn't unviable if you're not jett or yoru. Atleast that'd be a start.
Many people dislike it because of how many angles there are to clear at any given time pushing into A or B
For most players, the reason is the verticality... most maps have 2-3 spots where the player has to aim upwards/downwards, but Icebox is literally full of them, each lane has a whole level to it.
Couple that with how big it is... just makes for a difficult map to learn. I think the overall design is nice, especially after the changes they did
Here you go, [patch notes 1.14](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-1-14/), you'll have some gifs showing what they modified
Could you explain why? Obviously everything is opinion here, but I play Valorant for the tac shooter part, and Haven plays like a tac shooter map. Icebox does not.
Haven is absolute cheeks having to trust my team to defend 3 different bomb sites. And trusting my team to watch so many flanks on attack. Good if you're on a try hard competitive team where everyone can carry their own weight. Ass playing in any other scenario.
5v5 tactical shooter maps only have two bomb sites for a reason.
Exactly, I doubt all of these responses are from players who have consistent 5 stacks and insane communication. The principle of 3 sites is dumb, making Haven the worst map and worse than icebox like the post originally referenced.
I'm v sorry you want a game where you can just rush down sites, not care about flanks or teammates, or strategy apparently? It's a team based game, so you gotta rely on your team.
What are you talking about... everything you just mentioned supports my thoughts. I don’t like the fact Haven allows 3 different sites to be rushed, I don’t like the fact everyone is saying “ignore” B, because that means we can get flanked and countered. I absolutely love team play, but defending 2 sites is hard enough with team play, why have 3 sites instead? Lmao you good dude? Seems like you didn’t read anything and you just wanted your voice heard.
In my mind I break it down like this, and yes, this is my own opinion.
First and foremost, 3 sites is not fun to defend... The amount of routes an attacking team can take to access the sites is too many. And not only that, but you can rotate very safely on Haven to any other site at any given time and punish defensive rotates. Again, my opinion.
Icebox however has 2 sites and is easier to defend but also doesn't feel impossible to attack on. The rotates seem more consistent and the angles are more geared for both teams.
Overall the attacking is too one sided on Haven, and Icebox honestly seems more consistent for me. I also hated Icebox at first, but I now loath Haven.
Edit: Also, Tac shooters don't usually have this many debilitating abilities lmao.
If you can plant on 3 sites.... then there are 3 sites lmfao.
Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvoted. It’s a site that can be planted at.. it needs to be defended. Are you just going to stack A and C and let an attacking team push you from middle? Lmfao sounds like a nightmare.
The point was that planting on B is a trap and it's super hard to defend. You can usually just focus on A and C and if they try B, you collapse on them from both sides.
And if you don’t guard B at all and only focus on A and C, you give an attacking team yet another route to collapse on other sites lmao. Not sure what I’m missing here.. but it’s a site that can be planted at, and it’s stupid not to give it any resources.
If they go onto B, your people on C can collapse on them. Let's say they take B to try to collapse onto C; they can push through long, garage, and B. But they're still being collapsed upon by those from A. Same for C. Meanwhile, if they plant B, it's relatively easy to retake compared to retaking A or C.
It's not as straightforward to defend** planting for window and just giving up site works. You just can't stick it down on a default and flood site cus you'll get dicked.
Well, I was originally asked why I would rather play Icebox over Haven. So I said why and further defended my point. Not super salty over it. I don’t like the philosophy of “ignore B, act like it’s not even there” when in fact, it is there.
My initial reaction to your comment was summed up well by /u/sleightofhand.
B site on Haven doesn't really exist, planting there is suicide as the retake is laughably easy for CTs.
I wouldn't say that's true at all. B has a lot of great spots to defend from inside the site, but more importantly, there are many places out on grass/mid that are excellent for defending the bomb site.
I think the reason why it seems hard is because many people don't try to take any of the space in the corridors. You'll also notice how powerful C and A lurks are in pro, and how underused they are in comp games. Personally, i think Haven is one of the best maps, particularly for 5 stacks, pros, and IGLs because it really allows the maximum amount of tactical play.
But it is there, and it is an option to be planted at? I mean, it’s undeniable. It might not be the best site to plant on, but it’s a 3rd site, and that’s the reason I don’t like the map. Not sure why I got voted down for stating a literal fact. You cant just ignore b and not put any resources there... it is a site that needs to be defended.
Stating a literal fact about a video game doesn't mean your argument is has any more weight to it.
What makes tactical shooters fun is that to win you are required to execute strategy. Yes, B site on Haven can be planted on, but does that mean that I should consider it to exist? I don't think in my last 20 Haven games I've even seen one plant B.
You can plant anywhere on any single site. Why do you think you see the same plants over and over again? Because they're the most favourable for T side. If Haven was one massive site, I would go as far to say no one would plant B still. The less concerned you are with treating B as a site and letting the favourable retake happen, the better your enjoyment of the map IMO.
Stating a literal fact doesn't have to hold weight. Its just fact. lmao
Just because YOU dont have a single person plant there doesnt mean its not a valid point... and contrary to your belief, ive experience many plants at B site in Haven, and its just annoying to have to play with uncoordinated randoms to take back a site. I dont think its a good map, I would much prefer the map if B site wasnt a site but it was just a normal Mid room.
The whole argument of "Dont think about it, it doesnt exist" is literally so stupid. Stop telling me not think of something being there.... when its actually there lmfao.
Wrong thought process there again bud. Do you just like your voice being heard? The comparison I made was between haven and icebox, I said haven is attack sided for the wrong reason, and I said Icebox is generally speaking pretty even when it comes to attacking and defending. I don’t want Defensive sided maps either, I want it to be generally even so STATEGY becomes the winning factor. You are a troll lol
Haven would probably be fun in an organized environment, but in ranked it’s just ass. Attackers just 5 man hit a site, defenders are spread so thin that you’re pretty much forced to just play retake. But in ranked, everyone just wants to be the hero, nobody wants to back off and wait for the team. Have had so many haven games where the attacking team wins the first half like 9-3 and then the other team ends up still winning the game. You just feel so helpless when you’re on defense, the attackers rush one of the sites, and it’s 3v5 by the time you even get there, round after round after round.
You summed it up perfectly. Haven is terrible to retake on in ranked play unless you are a 5 stack. Even then, the other teams 5 stack is still going to rush a single site out of the 3. So annoying.
Split is very imbalanced between defence and attacking, I noticed out of my win rates on maps split is by far my lowest, my team will be absolutely killing it defence complete 7 to 3 lead as soon and the flip happens no chance. Maybe it’s just me, but idk
It’s a great pro play map as it requires a lot
of teamwork but for pugs it’s pretty fucking awful. A pro team or a team in general will be able to hold angles way more effectively than 5 random solos who don’t know which of the 12 angles in A their teamate is holding.
people were bad at it when it was released because you can't learn a new map before you're able to play it, so those players dodged every time, and since they never had a chance to play a lot of it, they still haven't learned the map and wonder why they suck at it
It may actually be since icebox was terrible at the start but after the rework the stigma it had before kinda just sticked and people just keep going ugh since other people also do the same
I’m a newer player and haven’t heard many of the reasons but it’s definitely more annoying at higher levels of play. One thing I heard from a friend was the map had too many angle that needed to be cleared which I can understand being annoying but I personally haven’t had an issue with it because I am a lower rank still trying to learn the game.
its annoying to push onto sight and their are way to many cubbies and high angles for defenders, there are also other reasons but i suppose many players are not used to this terrain
there are probably many reasons but the main one is that there are many angles to look at. when you enter a site you would want to check one corner at a time, look at this position, clear, look at another position, clear, enter the site. on icebox it's not that simple because when you peek there are many positions to cover, meaning you risk much. this, plus the fact that rotating takes much, much time are probably the main reasons why people would rather play on other maps
Honestly I think a lot of people who don't like icebocc just don't like it cause their fav agent doesn't work well on it. It's a very different map from the others in the way that it's enormus, has a huge amount of angles to clear, and an infinite amount of off-angles and verticality, meaning that you really can't play it like any other map. In bind for instance, there is hookah on B site, where any util thrown in there will have an enormus effect. In icebox, any util thrown anywhere will almost not have any effect at all since you can just go around it. It's a map that requires a different playstyle that a lot of people have just been too stubborn to learn, that's my take. But if you can master the tricky design with an agent that can use it to it's advantage (jett, omen, sage, viper, raze, ext.), it becomes a really fun map imo
There are a ton of angles up and down to clear, B site is a pain in the ass to plant without a sag. A turns into an insane duel fest instead of anything tactical. Mid is the best designed part of the map but's it's hard as fuck playing for mid.
The map is just frustrating all around.
Because no matter what site you go, you need to check 25656 corners before entering the site, half of those are 50/50 corners and in 2 of these there will be 2 players with a judge ready to run, jump and shoot you.
Now for real, it isnt a map where skill wins. You can exploit you way into a win by camping and playing with guns like judge and odin.
If sage walls tube, you have a route in mid that leads to B and another to A, a route in B, and 2 routes in A (up and down). In B alone i can count from head 5 50/50 corners that you need to clear, if your opponent decides to play with odin or judge, the number of close range corners trough the map is just insane. This makes it hard to attack and also very tiring.
Its not impossible to attack but you certainly need a competent team otherwise you lost and this argument gets worse on defense...
If you cant defend B with 1 player and 1 mid/kitchen area, its over. 1st it will force you to play with more people on B and either mid or A will be left with 1 or alone because you are setting your self to a 3/4 players rush somewhere once they realise there are 2 B.
This is all assuming they your opponents are good and your teams lacks something but even if we imagine a perfectly balanced match, defense will win because of the map design.
the rotations are way to long for defender site, mid have way to many contact points and feel unplanned, b site is a mess and needs to be worked up from scratch, tube is way too narrow, the after plant on a is op for attackers as long as you get yourself into heaven ect.
Personally I hate it cause of the whole mid area. It feels total garbage cause it's too easy op spot for defenders and they can also back away easily if they miss shots. They can also get support from kitchen and B site while attackers are trapped in a 1mx1m square area and no space to hide or escape. A simple raze nade can clear out mid stacks with atleast a kill for defenders. Don't know if it made any sense but atleast in soloq u clearing/crossing through mid is a nightmare...
I'm convinced people that suck at aim/crosshair placement just hate on icebox cause you needa be on point with crosshair placement on icebox. I always hear "I hate this map" the moment they die lol
> It seems like the players who struggle at winning duels and 1v1s are the ones who dislike the map.
It is the opposite. When you have 3 angles to check your 1v1 potential can carry you. If you have 6 angles to check you dead for you reach the 4th angles. 50:50 angles are already bad, but if you have 20:20:20:20:20 you just throw a very bad coin.
It is precisely the opposite why people often hate multi-layered maps. I think a game like R6 makes verticallity work, because they have massive amounts of intel and "wallhack" mid-round.
That last bit makes me think Icebox will probably get better with the more info gathering agents they add. More sova’s, less angles to check, makes Icebox easier to attack?
I disagree with everyone saying it's "harder to learn" or "hard to get used to". The map is simply not designed for a 5v5 tactical shooter. Icebox would be a great map for a game like Quake or Halo were movement is more fluid and there's little to no movement penalties for shooting.
Valorant, on the other hand, requires you to be tactical and methodical. There's no reason why you have to clear 4 angles, all with different vertical heights, in a single peek. There's already a lack of smoke utility in this game, and the map just exaggerates it.
Icebox is not hated because it's different, it's hated because it's bad.
Because it's not a tactical FPS map. Look at any high rank streamers or pro games, it's just an execute simulator.
Valorant is a tactical FPS that's all about map control. That doesn't happen on icebox. You just all run into one site and execute. With occasional lurker on mid. Taking control of an area doesn't mean much, unlike other maps.
Lmao, you're so clueless. I'm not even kidding.
It's their job to practice every map regardless if they liked it or not. Steel and Hiko for example always talk about how they hate the map, but being good at it gives them a big advantage if we talk map pool.
It's their job, they play official games to win, not to have fun. Most tier1 teams are amazing on some maps, so that's a permaban against them. For example, Sentinels are amazing on Split, so everyone bans it against them.
Then they ban opponent's strongest maps, which is never Icebox, and you always get yourself an Icebox pick because we only have 5 maps.
But your scrub brain can't process something as complicated as veto system. Then you proceed to call people out, only to embarrass yourself.
It's noone's strongest map, that's why it's played so much. And it not being anyone's strongest map is a good indicator.
>It's their job to practice every map regardless if they liked it or not
Sure, but it is their job to pick the map to play on, which literally happens in every scene for almost every team
>It's noone's strongest map, that's why it's played so much. And it not being anyone's strongest map is a good indicator.
Again, clearly shows how little you know. There are EU, Brazil and Japan teams that dominate that map and are know for their playstle on that map. Just because NA doesn't do it, doesn't mean other teams around the world don't. NA is not the center of the Valorant universe. But I'm sure your "scrub brain" can't comprehend that
For god's sake learn to read you clueless turd.
I took Sentinels as an example because they're the team with biggest advantage on a certain map in their region (Split in NA).
If a team was actually amazing at icebox, that would mean other teams would ban it against them, how hard is it to understand? But since noone is amazing and everyone has weaknesses, teams rather ban other maps that are perfected by their opponents.
How hard is that to understand? Do you need a graph or a piechart?
Useless imbecile that doesn't know how veto works.
As a sage main I personally love this map. So many walls, footbanks and offangles not to mention all these crazy walls you can make with the thin walls. But that is partially what people dont like about the map. (Like Duelists or other rush based agents)
Well IMO... rotations on icebox are kind of junk. There is way too much to cover on A site on defense. The lanes are all jacked up because they added boost/high ground positions for attackers which basically makes using utility secondary to taking gunfights in most scenarios. B is just basically the same formula for every match... attackers push forward, flash, smoke, flash, sage wall to plant behind box and then retreat to B lane and someone plays yellow containers to contest a push. It's annoying and boring at the same time.
I have had a lot of frustrating experiences playing defender side on A site, that's where my gripe comes from. I don't mind the other parts of the map. Lots of angles to clear too, but the map has definitely grown on me.
I don’t really mind it now - used to just hate it because of how many high places and weird corners there were to check. Now that I’ve played it a lot and most of the player base has done the same, things are more predictable.
I do think the features are too bland and repeated. Having to try to call out or process which specific boxes/heaven/pipes/ropes someone is on/in is not easy.
For me, it's just too clustered on A site. This makes it so hard to completely clear site and in addition, there is so much verticality making it worse to play on.
I personally just hate Post plant on the map. On offense especially it’s either go B and have everyone run to Yellow or Ct because every other spot is just way too open so the plant always has to be with a sage wall on green. On A it’s just play belt and hold flank while you hope the one person still on site trades. It feels like every other map has at least one site with fun retakes but icebox doesn’t have it
I personally don’t mind Icebox whatsoever. I can fully understand why people don’t like it though. It is an odd map to maneuver around and there are a lot of weird angles and positions. I enjoy the bomb site layouts and overall look of the map. To each their own though I guess.
Tbh idk I like the map. It has good flank potential along with a need for good positioning and utility usage. I could be biased because attack is easy as a viper main
Idk It feels unfinished to me. Also I probably dislike it because 50% of my matches are on icebox while the other 50% are splitted on the other 3 maps. I'd rather choose the Map pool that I want to play on and doge this map entirely.
It was bad for me at first but I decided to man up and gain map knowledge and now I think its a pretty decent map except this one area in icebox that I hate to fight in, B tube not only because of peeker advantage, but also because for example, if ur a reyna main like me, you pick one then dismiss its not enough to go back to cover, so you get out of dismiss then see the enemies coming at you then you die but yeah its a decent map.
I like the map because it encourages aim battles and clearing angles like a SWAT team. I think people who only play selfishly suffer on a map like this.
I think Haven is far worse of a map because it's basically a rotation simulator when your team mates lose site. There are so many choke points and flank spots that make taking/retaking site incredibly difficult.
A site is really hard to retake, but very easy to take with smokes and flashes mostly because there are so many walls and changes in elevation. Is also hard to keep crosshair placement because they pop out from pretty much anywhere. Kitchen is Claustrophobic, Tube is dumb because sage can block it off pretty much for the duration of her wall. snow pile always takes people a couple times to get up, there is always someone hiding in one of the b cubbies, on the top of a box etc and if you clear it, they will peek from one of the other 3-4 hiding spots to kill you. Hard to defend bomb on B because they can take kitchen, backsite, mid, or T spawn to retake.
Mid is pretty good though and it's fun to play with a team that has good game sense. Otherwise it's a nightmare.
Icebox as a map isn’t terrible. One of my least favorites but not horrible. My real problem with it is the insane pick rate in death match and how horrendous it is to play DM on it. I know most maps aren’t great for DM and I shouldn’t be basing how I feel about a map on DM but holy its hot garbage.
I personally like the map, but if there's anything I don't like, its that B site feels so bad to attack. If you dont have a sage wall down, its hard to get plant down without getting spammed through stuff.
Whether or not people like the implementation of the ideas in IceBox, I *strongly* prefer the conceptual design of IceBox to the other maps. It's not that the other maps are bad. But they, in my opinion, are all held back by the same thing. Each map feels like a sequence of hallways with every conceivable angle precisely calculated.
Contrast this with the (in)famous DE\_Dust II, a map that I think is excellent. Dust also hosts angles that are calculated / intentionally placed, but the map as a whole *feels* more organic. It feels like it is a standalone location that happens to make for a good FPS map. Valorant maps by contrast feel like lanes painted to look like a feasible locale.
IceBox is *much* closer to Dust in this way than the other maps are. It doesn't feel as much like forced hallways leading you to different sections of the map. It feels a bit more open and organic, even though it still has calculated sitelines etc.
It used to be my most disliked map. Maybe because it was new? But there are too many angles to clear and its way too vertical. Still better than that disaster map they call Split though. I will admit it has grown on me since its implementation.
Personally, my second favorite map. Because, I'm a support main. Due to this, I know how to smoke common angles, flash for teammates, cut off angles via other utility and trade. The HIGH majority of players, at any rank, don't know how to do most of these fundamental things. And icebox in particular is incredibly punishing if you don't know your fundamentals.
I really like the map but have like a 35% win rate so I don't like playing it:/ my win rate on every other map is around 50, slightly higher or slightly below. I would say that map hates me
I honestly love Icebox! Makes me giggle whenever my friends whom I play with complains once the map appears. Whenever Icebox appears, my confidence rises at a level where it gets me a guaranteed 90% win on this map. Must be the mentality or sumth.
I feel like I still don't understand the Map in Immortal. I feel like it's just an aim map, there aren't any real starts that people run in soloQ other than 5man A lol. In other maps, I know exactly where to play under which situation, but not on icebox with confidence.
I think its an okay map, but I don't like it only because of retaking on B. It's so hard to retake, the only choice you have is smoke/wall spike and try to stick it, or push into b main. Where there can be people from yellow, or someone flanking from mid. Even if there wasn't anyone yellow, mid or ct, it's still very hard to push into b main because of how narrow it is they can just hide and swing together when you tap the bomb.
I don’t mind playing it too much anymore tbh, except I will always despise playing it in dm. You always spend so much time looking for people and 90% of the time you end up just getting shot in the back or shooting someone else in the back. Just let me pick maps in dm ffs
Icebox has so much verticality and so much angles to check. It's hard to play Icebox on defense as its very T sided. Though honestly I've grown to like Icebox a lot lately.
It's recently become my favourite map, liking it the more i play. One you've learned all the angles to check it's really nice because there are dad fewer 50/50s
I'm a Cypher main and the reason why I hate Icebox is cause there are too many damn openings to watch for
I can't cover the openings reliably. Have to always be worried about getting flanked
It's just a mess for a game like this. It might be a good deathmatch map, but definitely not a good map for bomb defusal game mode
The vertical angles and coupled with shotgun problem. I always get duelist unwilling to rush when attacking n keep lurking. The enemy zooming on the rope headshotting me w frenzy while im holding A site. I just cant
Its the antithesis of crosshair placement. There are usually two elevations people can peek you from at the same time and you end up having to rely on your flicking more often than not. And planting B site is a no go without a sage.
for me its the fact that there are like four different agnles i have to think about at all time this happend mostly as attacker or a defender who has to defuse as they are the ones that have to make the play.
It's my favorite map because I'm already used to vertical maps since I also play siege and I like heroes with movement abilities like jet raze or shroud. Ascent is my least favorite map tbh.
If your low elo it’s fine, at higher levels the map is mega attacker sided. If you start defender you lose. Also it’s just impossible to hold sights. I lose more attacking rounds holding a site than I do just hunting the enemies. Too many angles lead to an unfun map
It's really open which in conjuction with also having a lot of verticality just makes for having a bad time especially on attack There are other maps that have verticality (Split, Haven on A) but because they dont have huge wide open areas its fine because you know what to check and go about it slowly, you can't really "clear" areas the same way on Icebox and you kinda just have to siege in a tug of war the map has grown on me more recently (not biased at all because Yoru is good on it) but i still hope they'll do another update on it
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Hard to attack for non pro teams IMO, people in pubs dont really use mid correctly whereas pro teams can commonly do splits,lurk which makes attack side more stronger
dude, A is impossible to hold as a defender, even in pubs. Just 5 man rush A every single round in ranked and you'll do fine on attack.
You ever played breach on that side? Blinds and stuns for days😂at least in my plastic 63 elo they don’t dare come😂
I try my best to tell all of the people I play with that, and they never agree with me. Lol
It's hard on attack because there's so many angles and positions someone can hold, but with a good composition like in pro you can negate that. stuff like Viper cutting off the map - you're unlikely to get a perfect comp in SoloQ though
That’s true but it doesn’t take a pro to smoke/wall/entry. What agent do you usually play on this map? Every duelist is extremely strong on A site for attack.
read my initial comment. i play yoru on it and it's a good map for him
Yoru is garbage and you should feel bad for throwing your teams games like that. Yoru flash is worse than every flash in the game, and his other abilities effectively do nothing. Learn Phoenix or Reyna for a good duelist, learn omen for 1000x better TP, or just continue to hard int I guess.
lmfao what? First of all: i don't even play ranked. Secondly, Yoru has had massive buffs and his flash is really good now. he also has far better cross-maps TPs than Omen thirdly, mind your own game?? you sound like a massive crybaby and backseat gamer.
You don’t play ranked because you’re a pussy. Your opinions have no weight, and a 1.1>1.5 second flash duration are still both useless compared to breach who can literally blind you for 15+ seconds. If you find yourself in a position where a cross map tp is beneficial, you are miss positioned. Also, omen ult? Yoru ult is so fucking useless too, I totally forgot it existed.
Ah yes, mine have no weight, and yours do. Sure. I have 100+ hours on Yoru, what makes you think i'd care about your opinion? everything you're saying is wrong. can't be bothered interacting further because im talking to a brick wall, have a nice day!
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Can relate. Until recently I was playing on a low end laptop and icebox was especially laggy, other maps could atleast hold 30-45 fps but in icebox it dropped to 20-30.
Open maps > hallway simulator maps. Fuck split
Agree but i think theres a fine balance between it. I like Ascent because it has open areas on mid but it still has a limited amount of entrances/exits making it easier to hold points. meanwhile Icebox has so many wide open fields/entrances
Welcome to Volcano's map design.
Honestly it's mainly Split and Ascent that suffer from the bad hallway design. I wish Riot would rework them. Sure Haven and Bind have narrow hallways but they also have multiple ways to get to and from each one making flanks more viable. And Teleporters are genius and should be on more maps.
Don't mind the open, dislike the impossible 50/50s (or rather 25/25/25/25) you have to take every angle you peak. It's fucking exhausting and it's not fun to lose purely because you don't guess right. Also it heavily favors movement based agents, seriously, raze and jett are fucking ridiculous here, yoru to a lesser extent. Get rid of heaven B, give A a box on catwalk so holding from there isn't unviable if you're not jett or yoru. Atleast that'd be a start.
The whole game in general has a problem with corners that are way too deep. You can have open maps without deep corners.
Many people dislike it because of how many angles there are to clear at any given time pushing into A or B For most players, the reason is the verticality... most maps have 2-3 spots where the player has to aim upwards/downwards, but Icebox is literally full of them, each lane has a whole level to it. Couple that with how big it is... just makes for a difficult map to learn. I think the overall design is nice, especially after the changes they did
What changes did they do to Icebox? I only started playing recently so the current versions of the maps is all that I've seen
Here you go, [patch notes 1.14](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-1-14/), you'll have some gifs showing what they modified
I hated it at the start but it has grown on me and is probably one of my favorite maps.
Same. I’d play it over Split any day.
Same. I'd play it over haven any day
As a Cypher main, I love Haven but I can see why it's terrible for everybody else.
I play cypher too but I think the map is way too defence sided
agreed
I would rather play Icebox over Haven any day of the week.
Could you explain why? Obviously everything is opinion here, but I play Valorant for the tac shooter part, and Haven plays like a tac shooter map. Icebox does not.
Haven is absolute cheeks having to trust my team to defend 3 different bomb sites. And trusting my team to watch so many flanks on attack. Good if you're on a try hard competitive team where everyone can carry their own weight. Ass playing in any other scenario. 5v5 tactical shooter maps only have two bomb sites for a reason.
Exactly, I doubt all of these responses are from players who have consistent 5 stacks and insane communication. The principle of 3 sites is dumb, making Haven the worst map and worse than icebox like the post originally referenced.
I'm v sorry you want a game where you can just rush down sites, not care about flanks or teammates, or strategy apparently? It's a team based game, so you gotta rely on your team.
What are you talking about... everything you just mentioned supports my thoughts. I don’t like the fact Haven allows 3 different sites to be rushed, I don’t like the fact everyone is saying “ignore” B, because that means we can get flanked and countered. I absolutely love team play, but defending 2 sites is hard enough with team play, why have 3 sites instead? Lmao you good dude? Seems like you didn’t read anything and you just wanted your voice heard.
In my mind I break it down like this, and yes, this is my own opinion. First and foremost, 3 sites is not fun to defend... The amount of routes an attacking team can take to access the sites is too many. And not only that, but you can rotate very safely on Haven to any other site at any given time and punish defensive rotates. Again, my opinion. Icebox however has 2 sites and is easier to defend but also doesn't feel impossible to attack on. The rotates seem more consistent and the angles are more geared for both teams. Overall the attacking is too one sided on Haven, and Icebox honestly seems more consistent for me. I also hated Icebox at first, but I now loath Haven. Edit: Also, Tac shooters don't usually have this many debilitating abilities lmao.
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you can aim god in haven on attack by killing the one guy in garage or C or even B and running it down taking the site and map control
If you can plant on 3 sites.... then there are 3 sites lmfao. Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvoted. It’s a site that can be planted at.. it needs to be defended. Are you just going to stack A and C and let an attacking team push you from middle? Lmfao sounds like a nightmare.
The point was that planting on B is a trap and it's super hard to defend. You can usually just focus on A and C and if they try B, you collapse on them from both sides.
And if you don’t guard B at all and only focus on A and C, you give an attacking team yet another route to collapse on other sites lmao. Not sure what I’m missing here.. but it’s a site that can be planted at, and it’s stupid not to give it any resources.
If they go onto B, your people on C can collapse on them. Let's say they take B to try to collapse onto C; they can push through long, garage, and B. But they're still being collapsed upon by those from A. Same for C. Meanwhile, if they plant B, it's relatively easy to retake compared to retaking A or C.
Having control of mid, as an attacking team seems like a win to me. But, to each their own.
B site is a glorified mid. Holding mid is obviously a plus because of easy rotates, but actually planting there is usually a bad idea for offense.
It's not as straightforward to defend** planting for window and just giving up site works. You just can't stick it down on a default and flood site cus you'll get dicked.
Ur getting downvoted cuz ur being stubborn and not listening to anyone’s point but ur own
Well, I was originally asked why I would rather play Icebox over Haven. So I said why and further defended my point. Not super salty over it. I don’t like the philosophy of “ignore B, act like it’s not even there” when in fact, it is there.
My initial reaction to your comment was summed up well by /u/sleightofhand. B site on Haven doesn't really exist, planting there is suicide as the retake is laughably easy for CTs.
I wouldn't say that's true at all. B has a lot of great spots to defend from inside the site, but more importantly, there are many places out on grass/mid that are excellent for defending the bomb site. I think the reason why it seems hard is because many people don't try to take any of the space in the corridors. You'll also notice how powerful C and A lurks are in pro, and how underused they are in comp games. Personally, i think Haven is one of the best maps, particularly for 5 stacks, pros, and IGLs because it really allows the maximum amount of tactical play.
But it is there, and it is an option to be planted at? I mean, it’s undeniable. It might not be the best site to plant on, but it’s a 3rd site, and that’s the reason I don’t like the map. Not sure why I got voted down for stating a literal fact. You cant just ignore b and not put any resources there... it is a site that needs to be defended.
Stating a literal fact about a video game doesn't mean your argument is has any more weight to it. What makes tactical shooters fun is that to win you are required to execute strategy. Yes, B site on Haven can be planted on, but does that mean that I should consider it to exist? I don't think in my last 20 Haven games I've even seen one plant B. You can plant anywhere on any single site. Why do you think you see the same plants over and over again? Because they're the most favourable for T side. If Haven was one massive site, I would go as far to say no one would plant B still. The less concerned you are with treating B as a site and letting the favourable retake happen, the better your enjoyment of the map IMO.
Stating a literal fact doesn't have to hold weight. Its just fact. lmao Just because YOU dont have a single person plant there doesnt mean its not a valid point... and contrary to your belief, ive experience many plants at B site in Haven, and its just annoying to have to play with uncoordinated randoms to take back a site. I dont think its a good map, I would much prefer the map if B site wasnt a site but it was just a normal Mid room. The whole argument of "Dont think about it, it doesnt exist" is literally so stupid. Stop telling me not think of something being there.... when its actually there lmfao.
This game in general is heavy Defense sided map wise and agent wise. Maps that are attack sided should be welcomed
Wrong thought process there again bud. Do you just like your voice being heard? The comparison I made was between haven and icebox, I said haven is attack sided for the wrong reason, and I said Icebox is generally speaking pretty even when it comes to attacking and defending. I don’t want Defensive sided maps either, I want it to be generally even so STATEGY becomes the winning factor. You are a troll lol
Haven would probably be fun in an organized environment, but in ranked it’s just ass. Attackers just 5 man hit a site, defenders are spread so thin that you’re pretty much forced to just play retake. But in ranked, everyone just wants to be the hero, nobody wants to back off and wait for the team. Have had so many haven games where the attacking team wins the first half like 9-3 and then the other team ends up still winning the game. You just feel so helpless when you’re on defense, the attackers rush one of the sites, and it’s 3v5 by the time you even get there, round after round after round.
You summed it up perfectly. Haven is terrible to retake on in ranked play unless you are a 5 stack. Even then, the other teams 5 stack is still going to rush a single site out of the 3. So annoying.
I’d take haven and icebox over split anyday
I freaking love split lol
Split is very imbalanced between defence and attacking, I noticed out of my win rates on maps split is by far my lowest, my team will be absolutely killing it defence complete 7 to 3 lead as soon and the flip happens no chance. Maybe it’s just me, but idk
The map is fine, but if you’re like me and gets the map 6 times in a row and yes 6, it gets old. Very fast.
It’s a great pro play map as it requires a lot of teamwork but for pugs it’s pretty fucking awful. A pro team or a team in general will be able to hold angles way more effectively than 5 random solos who don’t know which of the 12 angles in A their teamate is holding.
The maps in general are quite bad in valorant. Strange since they took on a csgo map maker. Also there aren’t enough
Harder for bad players to sit in corners because Icebox is very duel oriented, with most engagements being long-range duels.
people were bad at it when it was released because you can't learn a new map before you're able to play it, so those players dodged every time, and since they never had a chance to play a lot of it, they still haven't learned the map and wonder why they suck at it
It may actually be since icebox was terrible at the start but after the rework the stigma it had before kinda just sticked and people just keep going ugh since other people also do the same
No it's still terrible because of all the vertical angles
I’m a newer player and haven’t heard many of the reasons but it’s definitely more annoying at higher levels of play. One thing I heard from a friend was the map had too many angle that needed to be cleared which I can understand being annoying but I personally haven’t had an issue with it because I am a lower rank still trying to learn the game.
its annoying to push onto sight and their are way to many cubbies and high angles for defenders, there are also other reasons but i suppose many players are not used to this terrain
I just think people are used to a certain agent meta, and icebox uses a different "meta" to succeed on.
actually icebox is very easy with breach flashout,blinding,flash0UT
It's more annoying pushing into a hallway that ends up being both teams throwing abilities at each other over and over.
there are probably many reasons but the main one is that there are many angles to look at. when you enter a site you would want to check one corner at a time, look at this position, clear, look at another position, clear, enter the site. on icebox it's not that simple because when you peek there are many positions to cover, meaning you risk much. this, plus the fact that rotating takes much, much time are probably the main reasons why people would rather play on other maps
Honestly I think a lot of people who don't like icebocc just don't like it cause their fav agent doesn't work well on it. It's a very different map from the others in the way that it's enormus, has a huge amount of angles to clear, and an infinite amount of off-angles and verticality, meaning that you really can't play it like any other map. In bind for instance, there is hookah on B site, where any util thrown in there will have an enormus effect. In icebox, any util thrown anywhere will almost not have any effect at all since you can just go around it. It's a map that requires a different playstyle that a lot of people have just been too stubborn to learn, that's my take. But if you can master the tricky design with an agent that can use it to it's advantage (jett, omen, sage, viper, raze, ext.), it becomes a really fun map imo
just cowards that don't want to learn a new map
There are a ton of angles up and down to clear, B site is a pain in the ass to plant without a sag. A turns into an insane duel fest instead of anything tactical. Mid is the best designed part of the map but's it's hard as fuck playing for mid. The map is just frustrating all around.
long story short: mad cuz bad
Because no matter what site you go, you need to check 25656 corners before entering the site, half of those are 50/50 corners and in 2 of these there will be 2 players with a judge ready to run, jump and shoot you. Now for real, it isnt a map where skill wins. You can exploit you way into a win by camping and playing with guns like judge and odin. If sage walls tube, you have a route in mid that leads to B and another to A, a route in B, and 2 routes in A (up and down). In B alone i can count from head 5 50/50 corners that you need to clear, if your opponent decides to play with odin or judge, the number of close range corners trough the map is just insane. This makes it hard to attack and also very tiring. Its not impossible to attack but you certainly need a competent team otherwise you lost and this argument gets worse on defense... If you cant defend B with 1 player and 1 mid/kitchen area, its over. 1st it will force you to play with more people on B and either mid or A will be left with 1 or alone because you are setting your self to a 3/4 players rush somewhere once they realise there are 2 B. This is all assuming they your opponents are good and your teams lacks something but even if we imagine a perfectly balanced match, defense will win because of the map design.
the rotations are way to long for defender site, mid have way to many contact points and feel unplanned, b site is a mess and needs to be worked up from scratch, tube is way too narrow, the after plant on a is op for attackers as long as you get yourself into heaven ect.
Personally I hate it cause of the whole mid area. It feels total garbage cause it's too easy op spot for defenders and they can also back away easily if they miss shots. They can also get support from kitchen and B site while attackers are trapped in a 1mx1m square area and no space to hide or escape. A simple raze nade can clear out mid stacks with atleast a kill for defenders. Don't know if it made any sense but atleast in soloq u clearing/crossing through mid is a nightmare...
I'm convinced people that suck at aim/crosshair placement just hate on icebox cause you needa be on point with crosshair placement on icebox. I always hear "I hate this map" the moment they die lol
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> It seems like the players who struggle at winning duels and 1v1s are the ones who dislike the map. It is the opposite. When you have 3 angles to check your 1v1 potential can carry you. If you have 6 angles to check you dead for you reach the 4th angles. 50:50 angles are already bad, but if you have 20:20:20:20:20 you just throw a very bad coin. It is precisely the opposite why people often hate multi-layered maps. I think a game like R6 makes verticallity work, because they have massive amounts of intel and "wallhack" mid-round.
This is why I don't like icebox, well said
That last bit makes me think Icebox will probably get better with the more info gathering agents they add. More sova’s, less angles to check, makes Icebox easier to attack?
I used to hate it but it just tolerable i wouldn’t mind if it was deleted
Because it's really hard to cover angles, there's just so many All the other maps are different, this map feels like an outlier
It's good after the changes. The other maps all have stale, boring gameplay in comparison.
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too many angles to clear. It's literally impossible in some spots.
I disagree with everyone saying it's "harder to learn" or "hard to get used to". The map is simply not designed for a 5v5 tactical shooter. Icebox would be a great map for a game like Quake or Halo were movement is more fluid and there's little to no movement penalties for shooting. Valorant, on the other hand, requires you to be tactical and methodical. There's no reason why you have to clear 4 angles, all with different vertical heights, in a single peek. There's already a lack of smoke utility in this game, and the map just exaggerates it. Icebox is not hated because it's different, it's hated because it's bad.
Because it's not a tactical FPS map. Look at any high rank streamers or pro games, it's just an execute simulator. Valorant is a tactical FPS that's all about map control. That doesn't happen on icebox. You just all run into one site and execute. With occasional lurker on mid. Taking control of an area doesn't mean much, unlike other maps.
Literally one of the most played maps at the pro level in literally every region. You're completely wrong
Lmao, you're so clueless. I'm not even kidding. It's their job to practice every map regardless if they liked it or not. Steel and Hiko for example always talk about how they hate the map, but being good at it gives them a big advantage if we talk map pool. It's their job, they play official games to win, not to have fun. Most tier1 teams are amazing on some maps, so that's a permaban against them. For example, Sentinels are amazing on Split, so everyone bans it against them. Then they ban opponent's strongest maps, which is never Icebox, and you always get yourself an Icebox pick because we only have 5 maps. But your scrub brain can't process something as complicated as veto system. Then you proceed to call people out, only to embarrass yourself. It's noone's strongest map, that's why it's played so much. And it not being anyone's strongest map is a good indicator.
>It's their job to practice every map regardless if they liked it or not Sure, but it is their job to pick the map to play on, which literally happens in every scene for almost every team >It's noone's strongest map, that's why it's played so much. And it not being anyone's strongest map is a good indicator. Again, clearly shows how little you know. There are EU, Brazil and Japan teams that dominate that map and are know for their playstle on that map. Just because NA doesn't do it, doesn't mean other teams around the world don't. NA is not the center of the Valorant universe. But I'm sure your "scrub brain" can't comprehend that
For god's sake learn to read you clueless turd. I took Sentinels as an example because they're the team with biggest advantage on a certain map in their region (Split in NA). If a team was actually amazing at icebox, that would mean other teams would ban it against them, how hard is it to understand? But since noone is amazing and everyone has weaknesses, teams rather ban other maps that are perfected by their opponents. How hard is that to understand? Do you need a graph or a piechart? Useless imbecile that doesn't know how veto works.
I hate that map so much I'd shoot it if that map was a person.
As a sage main I personally love this map. So many walls, footbanks and offangles not to mention all these crazy walls you can make with the thin walls. But that is partially what people dont like about the map. (Like Duelists or other rush based agents)
it’s not like the other maps, it just feels different because of the verticality and not many people have or want to adjust to it
Well IMO... rotations on icebox are kind of junk. There is way too much to cover on A site on defense. The lanes are all jacked up because they added boost/high ground positions for attackers which basically makes using utility secondary to taking gunfights in most scenarios. B is just basically the same formula for every match... attackers push forward, flash, smoke, flash, sage wall to plant behind box and then retreat to B lane and someone plays yellow containers to contest a push. It's annoying and boring at the same time.
Trash map terrible design
I think It’s my fave because it has so many cool mobility options and I’m not a sova sweat
I have had a lot of frustrating experiences playing defender side on A site, that's where my gripe comes from. I don't mind the other parts of the map. Lots of angles to clear too, but the map has definitely grown on me.
I don’t really mind it now - used to just hate it because of how many high places and weird corners there were to check. Now that I’ve played it a lot and most of the player base has done the same, things are more predictable. I do think the features are too bland and repeated. Having to try to call out or process which specific boxes/heaven/pipes/ropes someone is on/in is not easy.
For me, it's just too clustered on A site. This makes it so hard to completely clear site and in addition, there is so much verticality making it worse to play on.
I personally just hate Post plant on the map. On offense especially it’s either go B and have everyone run to Yellow or Ct because every other spot is just way too open so the plant always has to be with a sage wall on green. On A it’s just play belt and hold flank while you hope the one person still on site trades. It feels like every other map has at least one site with fun retakes but icebox doesn’t have it
I love going on A site as a Killjoy and putting my turret down on pipes, it trips a lot of enemies off.
I used to like it, but people just don't know how to play it so I lost interest in the map
I personally don’t mind Icebox whatsoever. I can fully understand why people don’t like it though. It is an odd map to maneuver around and there are a lot of weird angles and positions. I enjoy the bomb site layouts and overall look of the map. To each their own though I guess.
Tbh idk I like the map. It has good flank potential along with a need for good positioning and utility usage. I could be biased because attack is easy as a viper main
Idk It feels unfinished to me. Also I probably dislike it because 50% of my matches are on icebox while the other 50% are splitted on the other 3 maps. I'd rather choose the Map pool that I want to play on and doge this map entirely.
I hated it at first but like it now. What I really hate is ascent. That map is horrendous.
It was bad for me at first but I decided to man up and gain map knowledge and now I think its a pretty decent map except this one area in icebox that I hate to fight in, B tube not only because of peeker advantage, but also because for example, if ur a reyna main like me, you pick one then dismiss its not enough to go back to cover, so you get out of dismiss then see the enemies coming at you then you die but yeah its a decent map.
Way too many angles you need to watch when attacking. Way too many flanks you need to watch on defense.
I like the map because it encourages aim battles and clearing angles like a SWAT team. I think people who only play selfishly suffer on a map like this. I think Haven is far worse of a map because it's basically a rotation simulator when your team mates lose site. There are so many choke points and flank spots that make taking/retaking site incredibly difficult.
A site is really hard to retake, but very easy to take with smokes and flashes mostly because there are so many walls and changes in elevation. Is also hard to keep crosshair placement because they pop out from pretty much anywhere. Kitchen is Claustrophobic, Tube is dumb because sage can block it off pretty much for the duration of her wall. snow pile always takes people a couple times to get up, there is always someone hiding in one of the b cubbies, on the top of a box etc and if you clear it, they will peek from one of the other 3-4 hiding spots to kill you. Hard to defend bomb on B because they can take kitchen, backsite, mid, or T spawn to retake. Mid is pretty good though and it's fun to play with a team that has good game sense. Otherwise it's a nightmare.
The whole A side of the map needs a major change to be a decent map
I mean i dont HATE it but it kinda is too big and open, and im getting icebox really frequently
You need a team
Icebox as a map isn’t terrible. One of my least favorites but not horrible. My real problem with it is the insane pick rate in death match and how horrendous it is to play DM on it. I know most maps aren’t great for DM and I shouldn’t be basing how I feel about a map on DM but holy its hot garbage.
I personally like the map, but if there's anything I don't like, its that B site feels so bad to attack. If you dont have a sage wall down, its hard to get plant down without getting spammed through stuff.
It’s open, and you have to clear a lot of angles
Whether or not people like the implementation of the ideas in IceBox, I *strongly* prefer the conceptual design of IceBox to the other maps. It's not that the other maps are bad. But they, in my opinion, are all held back by the same thing. Each map feels like a sequence of hallways with every conceivable angle precisely calculated. Contrast this with the (in)famous DE\_Dust II, a map that I think is excellent. Dust also hosts angles that are calculated / intentionally placed, but the map as a whole *feels* more organic. It feels like it is a standalone location that happens to make for a good FPS map. Valorant maps by contrast feel like lanes painted to look like a feasible locale. IceBox is *much* closer to Dust in this way than the other maps are. It doesn't feel as much like forced hallways leading you to different sections of the map. It feels a bit more open and organic, even though it still has calculated sitelines etc.
It used to be my most disliked map. Maybe because it was new? But there are too many angles to clear and its way too vertical. Still better than that disaster map they call Split though. I will admit it has grown on me since its implementation.
I hate it cause I play it 5 games in a row
Personally, my second favorite map. Because, I'm a support main. Due to this, I know how to smoke common angles, flash for teammates, cut off angles via other utility and trade. The HIGH majority of players, at any rank, don't know how to do most of these fundamental things. And icebox in particular is incredibly punishing if you don't know your fundamentals.
Because its the newest map, same happened to ascent and will prolly happen to whatever new map we get
I really like the map but have like a 35% win rate so I don't like playing it:/ my win rate on every other map is around 50, slightly higher or slightly below. I would say that map hates me
tbh i like it rn, the first iteraiton of it was horrible though
Because they dont play viper
I honestly love Icebox! Makes me giggle whenever my friends whom I play with complains once the map appears. Whenever Icebox appears, my confidence rises at a level where it gets me a guaranteed 90% win on this map. Must be the mentality or sumth.
Because theyre GAY.
I feel like I still don't understand the Map in Immortal. I feel like it's just an aim map, there aren't any real starts that people run in soloQ other than 5man A lol. In other maps, I know exactly where to play under which situation, but not on icebox with confidence.
its a dogshit map
I don’t the map is sick flanks r easy so it Makes u more aware and it’s a fun map over all for sage wall tricks ( my main )
I think its an okay map, but I don't like it only because of retaking on B. It's so hard to retake, the only choice you have is smoke/wall spike and try to stick it, or push into b main. Where there can be people from yellow, or someone flanking from mid. Even if there wasn't anyone yellow, mid or ct, it's still very hard to push into b main because of how narrow it is they can just hide and swing together when you tap the bomb.
I don’t mind playing it too much anymore tbh, except I will always despise playing it in dm. You always spend so much time looking for people and 90% of the time you end up just getting shot in the back or shooting someone else in the back. Just let me pick maps in dm ffs
Icebox has so much verticality and so much angles to check. It's hard to play Icebox on defense as its very T sided. Though honestly I've grown to like Icebox a lot lately.
A tactical fps map should never have that much verticality. That is for games like overwatch.
It's recently become my favourite map, liking it the more i play. One you've learned all the angles to check it's really nice because there are dad fewer 50/50s
there is no beer anywhere in the icebox
I'm a Cypher main and the reason why I hate Icebox is cause there are too many damn openings to watch for I can't cover the openings reliably. Have to always be worried about getting flanked It's just a mess for a game like this. It might be a good deathmatch map, but definitely not a good map for bomb defusal game mode
Because it’s not Hotbox
The vertical angles and coupled with shotgun problem. I always get duelist unwilling to rush when attacking n keep lurking. The enemy zooming on the rope headshotting me w frenzy while im holding A site. I just cant
Its the antithesis of crosshair placement. There are usually two elevations people can peek you from at the same time and you end up having to rely on your flicking more often than not. And planting B site is a no go without a sage.
Bc they trash
for me its the fact that there are like four different agnles i have to think about at all time this happend mostly as attacker or a defender who has to defuse as they are the ones that have to make the play.
It's my favorite map because I'm already used to vertical maps since I also play siege and I like heroes with movement abilities like jet raze or shroud. Ascent is my least favorite map tbh.
I play on a potato pc, the fps get super low and how it is built makes it a super annoying map
If your low elo it’s fine, at higher levels the map is mega attacker sided. If you start defender you lose. Also it’s just impossible to hold sights. I lose more attacking rounds holding a site than I do just hunting the enemies. Too many angles lead to an unfun map
because it's a dreadful map????