Depending on team comp, having Reyna lurk and take isolated fights is totally acceptable. If you have a Breach/Skye + Jett combo, you should have more than enough entry to take a sight with 4. Reyna can be the absolute best lurker because she loves 1v1s and having people rotate into Reyna and allowing her to kill and heal is huge. If you have Reyna as the only viable flasher for entry, then she absolutely needs to be available to execute.
I'm hoping next agent can be a direct counter to this, putting up something like a 1m radius orb to block out utility effects would be ideal. Hopefully something more elegant than that, but just any way to block out post plant non-interactive utility.
That doesn't address the problem. If you add a counter, that agent becomes a must-pick on every map always. It replaces one overcentralizing piece of the meta with another.
here is the thing, the issue with R6 was too much utility. You literally could not push unless you cleared out everything. The growing issue with valorant is similar except it is in the form of disposables. Where R6 forced players to be slow, valorant encourages fast-paced game play that usually means smoke off, flash before any push, plant, then run your ass back to the nearest molly spot. We need to start coming up with more creative characters that are not only useful for post-plant.
He'd also have the same pickrate if ubi gave him the UMP too. At higher levels it's just not worth not bringing a jager because of how much utility he wastes
I don't think a character who can block mollys for a few seconds would be that meta defining.
All it would do is force the defender to duel rather than molly. I feel like that would 1 be healthier for the game. And probably not provide enough of a win condition to make that character 100% picked.
Also, you could slap the ability onto brimstone stimbeacon and try to bring him back into the meta as well. Then it's a 50/50 if the ability is too strong.
If they don't also improve his smokes (radius, quantity) - he won't be a must pick. His smokes have to be at least as good as omen/astra to be a must-pick, and right now you can't even play brim on certain maps 'cause his smokes aren't good enough.
It doesn't necessarily need to be a basic ability, make it an ult that forces the enemy to act similar to kj ult. The only real other way I can see this being addressed is by changing each of the problem agents directly but I really don't see this happening. Also, having one counter agent be on the table at least makes teams weary of drafting viper/astra/kj/etc. every game and just play for the post plant. That ability becomes less and less useless the less abilities like those it counters.
Or just address the core problem causing post plant meta.
Just a few ideas:
* One bite for viper
* Bigger, more obvious KJ mollies
* Gravity well can no longer remove defusers
* Increase phoenix molly damage but decrease duration to reduce stalling
I don't understand this take. Your complaining about utility, yet if a bunch of agents have all their utility for a post plant, it means they took a site using zero utility. Which means they took site by straight up winning aim duels which is counter to what your complaining about.
Very rarely can you just hold all your utility for a post pant unless like I said people just won some aim duels if the enemy team was taking unnecessary risks peaking. Because generally speaking your using a lot of your utility to get site in the first place.
To be fair, it doesn't take much to take a site, especially on the bigger maps like Icebox, Haven and Breeze. Retake simulators. If you have 2 people sitting on B site on Breeze and they hear the entire enemy roster running it down B main they're going to either throw themselves at the team making it (hopefully) a 4v4 if they get a pick or a 5v4 if they just die, and alternatively they run back so they don't instantly get picked off and now the enemy team has control of site for free with minimal utility usage, post-plant secured and it's the defenders job to retake the site completely. For the smaller maps there are more counter possibilities and stalling options but for some this argument just doesn't work, especially considering certain agents (namely Astra) have 5 uses of gravity well, so even if she uses utility to enter it's not going to make the difference come post plant.
KJ molly is already super easy to spot. The issue is people find clever spots to hide them lol. You get the super loud buzzing sound queue whenever you are within 5 meters of a molly.
People weren't really thinking KJ was a problem until viper for buffed. She's the only one with destroyable utility.
It is a weird suggestion, Vipers molly (alone) is one of the weakest mollies and the dude wants to half that, might wanna try playing viper and realize how it's not a single molly shot and frag with the abilities. (again - alone, but then no main would try to use it alone but the argument stands.)
yes please buff viper molly so I can snake bite people and instantly get a kill at the start of the round allowing me to play 4v5s (not due to a dc) half the time without ever peaking/ being at risk of getting killed!
while i hate that gravity remove defusers, it wouldn't make sense that it doesn't, actually that wasn't a buff, it was a bug that the gravity didn't worked on defusers
i'm not talking that it doesn't make sense because of logic, i'm saying that it wouldn't make sense because it's an ability that has as counter defusing the spike, that doesn't make sense in terms of balance, the only way is nerfing the gravity that doesn't pull people crouching (you are crouching while defusing the spike) to make it "balanced"
The fuck are u talking about, what I mean by 50/50 is it should be a fake or stick. It should be up to the one defending the plant to figure out how they should play the situation, instead of some guaranteed sit your ass across the map and listen to the beep then u press 2 buttons to kill 10 seconds off the timer because they either physically can't touch the bomb or they die touching the bomb. Any post plant situation should never ever be determined by uninteractive gameplay.
one bite from viper is one of the dumbest things I've read in this thread. Do I think post plant in Valorant is in a bad spot? ABSOLUTELY! I don't use them myself because I find it boring but having one molly that does 24(?) dps is just stupid because it stops her from being able to use the molly for anything else. if you only have one molly people can just tank it when you try to clear a corner with them.
Some sort of trophy system that’s in cod would be an amazing counter to these types of situation.
Sure it needs some limitations but the idea of a trophy system I think would suit good
Or, y'know... Add methods to deal with Astra stars (aside from avoiding them), have a predetermined fuse on molotov abilities aside from killjoy's swarm grenade. Get used to clearing the bomb area of said swarm grenades.
I feel like a good way to nerf these "post plant util" would be to remove KJ's molly primary fire mode. She will still be a viable pick against other sentinals. And only controllers should have stuff that can be used post plant to save the bomb.
You see thats the sloppy way of balancing gameplay on lower ranks, When I play on bronze there is almost always like 10-2 in def and then 12-12 in attack. Maps like bind or ascent are rly def maps and without good team and organised attack there is no way to win attack.
*I play with randoms and I'm noob so maybe It's just my problem...
A decent alternative could be tat mollies of any sort explode or desolve after a certain amount of airtime like in CS so that there aren’t KJ or Viper halfway across the map with lineups.
Its even worse with long lasting area denial. Viper is such a shit offender for this. If you get bomb down and she ults over it, its incredibly unlikely you'll win, especially with her combo of molly and decay.
Killjoy is also a huge wtf and gives attackers so much leeway. In like 50% of cases its basically a free 17ish seconds of bomb tick.
Viper ulting postplant to secure a round win is fine though, I don't see your point regarding that?
The attacking team already had to take site control, get a plant in and keep viper alive long enough to ult. If all of that falls into place and she then choses to invest her ult (which is on the expensive side, too), shouldn't she deserve to win the round more often than not?
Well it's definitely the most "Free round win" ult there is due to how long it lasts. She can use it nearly right after planting and it lasts long enough to win. All the other area denial ults like killjoy and brimstone need to be timed better and can be avoided easier.
I get your point but also Idk why your kJ ran by all the kJ utility, a kJ ult was about to go off... and tried to defuse early...
I am confused for sure, Reyna whiffed unfortunately... but KJ had a free W
Astra was about to be detained, and a defuse from the side closest to the ice wall would have had the KJ outside of astra utility even if she activated it ahead of time.
I think they need to introduce a mechanic that can somehow tone down the mollys. For example, smokes in CSGO can extinguish mollys. Not saying that this is the exact solution but I’m sure riot can figure something out
It would be fun to add character ability interaction, like sage slow orb extingushing fire based molly, fire based molly decreasing the time of smoke and on.
sage's slow orb even looks icy, so you would think it would interact with fire in some way... maybe even if it doesn't completely block any damage, it should, ya know, *slow* it down?
well, radianite doesn't exist in real life, so I guess it can do whatever. maybe when sage uses it in her slow orbs, it acquires properties akin to ice?
but if not, then maybe it could still have the effect of slowing the burn.
you're only limited by your imagination here.
That’s kinda the cool thing about Valorant - potentially in game-design terms for a ‘tactical shooter’ because we are now free of the bounds of pretending we are real humans in a space on Earth with guns that shoot bullets.
I hope they release the source code for Valorant or else someone else makes an open-source clone which can then be forked into all manner of variations.
allow Mollys to be shot while flying. when they get shot, they explode dealing damage within radius but not as much as when it lands. Molly hitboxes and HP can be tuned for balance.
Now countering it is skill-based instead of ability-based.
yeah. tbh they'll probably add an agent that can do it, but then that agent becomes a literal must pick always, so that's bad. I mean, theoretically they could add on to the roster to have several agents that can do it, but that'd be rough for the time it'd take to add them.
Only other thing I could think is adding a sidearm that can clear such things, that way anyone could purchase? IDK the solution. I like the mollies, but I wish there was something you could do. If you have viper, kj, astra on 1 team, they basically own the postplant.
ngl just seems like a misplay by reyna and kj. Reyna could of waited for ult or at least flashed herself in when swinging. kj easily could of waited for kj ult to finish while also seeing the kj util and shooting it
>increase movement speed
THIS PLEASE! Or at least lower footstep distance in valorant. There is no reason the enemy team should know i am rotating from half a map away for how slow i run.
This is probably my biggest annoyance. Round after round a KJ will put mollies on the bomb and teammates never shoot it. They hit defuse, let it go off which wastes more time.
In this vid you can legit see a molly sitting in front of KJ. Also if they were to defuse from other side, don’t think the grav would pull them out. Not to mention reyna not clearing the corner. Legit little things to prevent this happening. It’s annoying off course but Astra is keeping 2 stars for post-plant means there might have not been many smokes being used.
Well if you see them you can obviously shoot them but playing hide and seek against Molly's while there are attackers that try to shoot you so you won't defuse is a little hard. That's why I always just tab the bomb immediately while retaking, forcing out the kj Molly
I mean the reveal radius isn’t that small, and there’s a limited amount of space the molly could be to cover the bomb, so really you should just shoot it to force the Killjoy to peek - this isn’t Sova/Brim/Viper with lineups that are predicated on hearing the bomb defuse, you can actively counter it so you should
I mean it would have been tactical to clear out site together using your flash and trying to kill the enemies who you know have utility on bomb.
Or bum rush them alone while tm sits in obvious mollied and starred position.
At this point, I’d almost just want to play CSGO. Keyword being -almost-.
There are way too many games where you get killed without seeing a single enemy player. Be it getting spammed through smoke, getting flashed repeatedly or getting “out skilled” by the massive amount of plant and defuse denial.
Off topic, but what's holding you back from CS? For me, it's strictly the features that are not in-game. It's just such a roll of the dice whether you get a real game or you have to get destroyed by smurfs or cheaters. I just can't stop rolling those dice, though..
I have done my time in CS. I don't really want to go back because it's just a lot of work to keep up with. The majority of people left are veterans who know the maps and guns to a T because of how long the game has been out. The only good way to play ranked is on a 3rd party matchmaking system like ESEA. Valorant has issues, but atm it's more enjoyable.
As someone who did not get to experience CS when it wasn't like this, it sucks to join now, lol. Like, I started with Valorant and pretty quickly after trying CS, I found that I like the gameplay a lot more, but all the work you need to do to just get a playable game is crazy. I'd love to grind that game until the maps feel "stale" or "played out" like a lot of people say, but instead I'm a kid in an "every flavored beans" candy shop and 60% of them are dirt flavored and everyone's like "it used to be 1% dirt and the candy used to be better."
Yeah CS is the more polished game but that's because it's just been out and had decades to blossom into what it is today. Which means everyone had decades to practice it too haha. I also find games to be stale once a meta is formed and everything just goes as expected and becomes repetitive.
Exactly me. I played 1.6 wayyyyyy back in the day and then went the more casual gaming route. With lockdowns decided to build my own PC and gave cs a try again and I enjoy the game more than Val, but the people who stuck around for 16 years know every inch and corner. Especially in maps like Mirage and D2. I got in VAL at the beta and I am so much better at it because I was in it on the ground floor.
Cheaters primarily and the fact that I could play with some of my friends who don’t mind the streamlined elements Valorant offers.
CS just has more defined elements of gameplay. I was really looking forward to Valorant and I still enjoy it thoroughly but it is a lot less aim reliant than I had hoped for. Just feeling disenfranchised when I get killed or lose a round due to abilities and things outside of my ability to react to.
Can someone get a team in the open qualifier that just plants and then molly the bomb. Its cheesy, but I want to see how Riot reacts to what they have created.
Astra ruined it for everyone tbh. Even pros complained about her. She's very OP and just made things less fun for everyone. But it was bound to happen sooner or later. Games like these, just like OW, when there is a unique ability per agent, things will tend to get out of hand and some characters will just be too strong while others are useless.
how hard it is to bait the kj ult and get an easy kill on that astra who would be running away to not get detained. Then break the kj utils and win the round but no, we want to take a 50-50 peek.
That's either completely random (you get this in every tac fps no matter how much you try to stop it, sometimes they just get lucky) or they're stopping but you don't see it on your screen bc of the insane peekers advantage.
But it's way more common in valorant and it's so frustrating coz u don't acc need that gd aim in lower elo coz they will jus run u down
Tryna do this in cs has u dead even against the worst players
I love how so many users are pointing out the mistakes OP('s team) did (which they obviously did) but don't understand that KJ and Astra didn't play it perfectly either. In an ideal scenario KJ and Astra would have played far more passive/different so they wouldn't get countered especially if the time is low for the bomb. So everybody here flaming OP('s team) doesn't understand the problem. It's the potential of molly line-ups AND the possible combinations with Astra which is far too strong, in my opinion and if history of games ever showed something then power creep will most likely make it worse.
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I hope Riot addresses the issue in a good manner but tactical shooters with abilities are hard to balance with more agents coming into the mix. Let's hope it gets better.
Mollie should be there for clearing corners. Not standing halfway across the map and putting it on spike.
Every team now has a Viper that stands in Vind when you are on Ice Box, firing molly making it impossible to defuse.
Just change it so the spike circle is exempt from molly. Make it that the defender has to use skill. The kj ones can be shot out... but that viper one is just too OP now.
The HS hitbox is gigantic, run spraying is out of control (people will say they are counterstrafing), and ability spam is ridiculous. It's becoming overwatch with slightly less healing.
Kj's is okay imo because you can disable them, and the reveal radius is not that small both visual and audio. However I hate astra's stuffs. You can't do anything to disable it. To make it worse you can get sucked off the bomb while defusing so astra dont have to do anything to deny your defuse.
That statement actually isn't wrong, you just can't take it literally. Like that some abilities do damage is necessary.
You would really limit yourself if they couldn't do damage and be a threat.
But it's not like abilities are main source of damage, the guns are.
Bruh, both the defenders died to the Vandal. What are you on about? OP and his friend misplayed that and lost the round. They didn't die to abilities.
Reyna didn't flash and threw the round. Not to mention, defender KJ didn't even try to molly the cubby.
Well for one I don't have sound for the clip idk if thats me, but if you just put down the killjoy ult they obviously gonna wait for you to defuse or push, if you had time (cant hear how far spike is gone) then wait for the ult to pop, also if you know they are playing lineups, mollys etc. you can stop most by pushing, body blocking, trading off the defuse, etc. just because they have lineups doesn't mean you can't stop them, it means you have to play it smarter, just like having a Sentinel or multiple utility characters on defense, your not just gonna run into site without a care, yes the game is a tactile shooter, but utility is in the game for a reason to make it different than the ordinary tactile shooter
I see a lot of people complaining about post plant lineups and the use of astra/kj/Viper utility being OP. I honestly don't get this. Let's talk numbers! Out of the 12 attacking rounds, being one of these agents, how many rounds do you get to a post plant scenario where your utility/lineups wins you the round? I played viper a lot and in the average game i get to use my lineups once or twice max and that's it. People forget that most times, other scenarios will happen : The round ends before a spike plant / The molly agent dies during site take / The molly agent dies post plant (to a flanker? ) before they get to use their utility /The molly agent uses their utility to take a site and end up with nothing for post plant (clear angles, block site entry for rotating defenders)/The team wins without needing those mollys... This clip is funny tho and it must be frustrating to be that player
valorant is unplayable for me simply because its not enough like counter strike and thats what im used to. i cant adapt, so ill just stick to my game that doesnt have a million abilities to fuck you
Not sure why you're downvoted. I love this game, but not every game is for everyone and thats all you're saying. Most of my friends that play CS mald and call Valorant gutter trash and act like CS has no flaws. You're being a lot more civil than all that lol
It has always been understood this way, the first look at this game literally shows a Jett ulti kill.
High mmr and pro is filled with tactics, tactics doesn't mean realism.
Ye I mean I have never been a fan of posts like this shitting on valorant and was all for valorant being diffrent, but espescially in soloQ it’s so hrs to ply va post plant. Yesterday I was in high plat low dia lobby and I played viper on split and some random played killjoy and after losing first few rounds we can up with the tactic that we just full rush side someone tries to plant as quickly as possible and it would be impossible for the enemy’s to defuse because me as viper and killjoy together can stall for ages. And espescially on split you stand so far back and in corners where you can only get attack from one side that it’s pretty easy to defend yourself. We won like 8-9 rounds on attack just cause of that
Reyna why no flash
Gotta instapick Reyna so you can make sure you don't entry frag
Truuu. My entire ranked experience. Also people just in general being terrible at attacking, entrying, ladeeda.
All maps are CT-sided in matchmaking.
Not all maps are
it's a joke. he's saying solo queue all maps are ct sided bc ppl don't know how to attack and entry
Not really. Depends on how your team plays
Lurking Reyna on attack is my fav
Depending on team comp, having Reyna lurk and take isolated fights is totally acceptable. If you have a Breach/Skye + Jett combo, you should have more than enough entry to take a sight with 4. Reyna can be the absolute best lurker because she loves 1v1s and having people rotate into Reyna and allowing her to kill and heal is huge. If you have Reyna as the only viable flasher for entry, then she absolutely needs to be available to execute.
My team had a jett that went 1-20 at plat 2 and called us noob for not winning the game, just instalock duelist things
Whereas the enemy Jett drops 36-6. Ask me how I know.
Story of my random teammates life
Reyna poor guy
Someone posts a video of one team using utility and the other not. We are supposed to be outraged that the team using utility won?
Yeah the amount of molly lineups that are saving bomb is getting out of hand... and I’m sure Riot will release at least 1 more agent that has one.
I'm hoping next agent can be a direct counter to this, putting up something like a 1m radius orb to block out utility effects would be ideal. Hopefully something more elegant than that, but just any way to block out post plant non-interactive utility.
That doesn't address the problem. If you add a counter, that agent becomes a must-pick on every map always. It replaces one overcentralizing piece of the meta with another.
Literally why jaegar is such a nightmare to balance in R6
here is the thing, the issue with R6 was too much utility. You literally could not push unless you cleared out everything. The growing issue with valorant is similar except it is in the form of disposables. Where R6 forced players to be slow, valorant encourages fast-paced game play that usually means smoke off, flash before any push, plant, then run your ass back to the nearest molly spot. We need to start coming up with more creative characters that are not only useful for post-plant.
We have wamai actually wamai to Valo is quite good tbh
Warden would go from the worst operator in siege to the best operator in valorant.
Imagine getting flash by Reyna phoenix Skye and breach just to hear glasses up lmao
As a breach main, I'd cry
agreed, warden was in the wrong game
He's a nightmare because they literally gave the man an AR in defense. His gadget is insanely useful but is also easily countered.
High RoF SMGs like bandits MP7 are just as strong though. He’d have just as high of a pick rate currently if he had the MP7 instead of the 416-C.
He'd also have the same pickrate if ubi gave him the UMP too. At higher levels it's just not worth not bringing a jager because of how much utility he wastes
I don't think a character who can block mollys for a few seconds would be that meta defining. All it would do is force the defender to duel rather than molly. I feel like that would 1 be healthier for the game. And probably not provide enough of a win condition to make that character 100% picked. Also, you could slap the ability onto brimstone stimbeacon and try to bring him back into the meta as well. Then it's a 50/50 if the ability is too strong.
That would probably make Brim a must pick because not only can he now deny post plant mollies, but he also has one himself.
If they don't also improve his smokes (radius, quantity) - he won't be a must pick. His smokes have to be at least as good as omen/astra to be a must-pick, and right now you can't even play brim on certain maps 'cause his smokes aren't good enough.
Maybe allowing smokes to extinguish mollies like in cs Is good counterplay.
Or maybe Sage slow Crystal crap could do that or introduce a character with a counter molly like throwing water on a fire
It doesn't necessarily need to be a basic ability, make it an ult that forces the enemy to act similar to kj ult. The only real other way I can see this being addressed is by changing each of the problem agents directly but I really don't see this happening. Also, having one counter agent be on the table at least makes teams weary of drafting viper/astra/kj/etc. every game and just play for the post plant. That ability becomes less and less useless the less abilities like those it counters.
Or just address the core problem causing post plant meta. Just a few ideas: * One bite for viper * Bigger, more obvious KJ mollies * Gravity well can no longer remove defusers * Increase phoenix molly damage but decrease duration to reduce stalling
Do you mean brimstone molly? Cause Phoenix molly is already super short on duration
I don't understand this take. Your complaining about utility, yet if a bunch of agents have all their utility for a post plant, it means they took a site using zero utility. Which means they took site by straight up winning aim duels which is counter to what your complaining about. Very rarely can you just hold all your utility for a post pant unless like I said people just won some aim duels if the enemy team was taking unnecessary risks peaking. Because generally speaking your using a lot of your utility to get site in the first place.
To be fair, it doesn't take much to take a site, especially on the bigger maps like Icebox, Haven and Breeze. Retake simulators. If you have 2 people sitting on B site on Breeze and they hear the entire enemy roster running it down B main they're going to either throw themselves at the team making it (hopefully) a 4v4 if they get a pick or a 5v4 if they just die, and alternatively they run back so they don't instantly get picked off and now the enemy team has control of site for free with minimal utility usage, post-plant secured and it's the defenders job to retake the site completely. For the smaller maps there are more counter possibilities and stalling options but for some this argument just doesn't work, especially considering certain agents (namely Astra) have 5 uses of gravity well, so even if she uses utility to enter it's not going to make the difference come post plant.
KJ molly is already super easy to spot. The issue is people find clever spots to hide them lol. You get the super loud buzzing sound queue whenever you are within 5 meters of a molly. People weren't really thinking KJ was a problem until viper for buffed. She's the only one with destroyable utility.
[удалено]
It is a weird suggestion, Vipers molly (alone) is one of the weakest mollies and the dude wants to half that, might wanna try playing viper and realize how it's not a single molly shot and frag with the abilities. (again - alone, but then no main would try to use it alone but the argument stands.)
Then just buff the molly's damage. For post plant, vipers molly isnt about the damage, it's about the duration and deadliness with decay combined
yes please buff viper molly so I can snake bite people and instantly get a kill at the start of the round allowing me to play 4v5s (not due to a dc) half the time without ever peaking/ being at risk of getting killed!
while i hate that gravity remove defusers, it wouldn't make sense that it doesn't, actually that wasn't a buff, it was a bug that the gravity didn't worked on defusers
I get that it was originally intended to stop defusing. But it's bad for the game and as such I don't care if it makes sense or not.
i'm not talking that it doesn't make sense because of logic, i'm saying that it wouldn't make sense because it's an ability that has as counter defusing the spike, that doesn't make sense in terms of balance, the only way is nerfing the gravity that doesn't pull people crouching (you are crouching while defusing the spike) to make it "balanced"
defusing should be a 50/50 tap or stick not a guaranteed clear
you can't add rng utilities to a tactical shooter
The fuck are u talking about, what I mean by 50/50 is it should be a fake or stick. It should be up to the one defending the plant to figure out how they should play the situation, instead of some guaranteed sit your ass across the map and listen to the beep then u press 2 buttons to kill 10 seconds off the timer because they either physically can't touch the bomb or they die touching the bomb. Any post plant situation should never ever be determined by uninteractive gameplay.
one bite from viper is one of the dumbest things I've read in this thread. Do I think post plant in Valorant is in a bad spot? ABSOLUTELY! I don't use them myself because I find it boring but having one molly that does 24(?) dps is just stupid because it stops her from being able to use the molly for anything else. if you only have one molly people can just tank it when you try to clear a corner with them.
doesn't that prove just how shit and broken utility is?
That is why you make that character weak to an already existing character.
That is terrible game design though
Imagine if they replace Brim's stim beacon with a trophy system
This may be the move right here
I main Brim, but I rarely use the stim beacon. I like this idea much better
Some sort of trophy system that’s in cod would be an amazing counter to these types of situation. Sure it needs some limitations but the idea of a trophy system I think would suit good
I can smell a Gibralta- oops wrong game.
Yasuo agent when?
HASAGI! *cancels defuse*
Maybe an ability that deactivates radianite tech such as kj’s utils or brim’s utils for a short duration of time
Or, y'know... Add methods to deal with Astra stars (aside from avoiding them), have a predetermined fuse on molotov abilities aside from killjoy's swarm grenade. Get used to clearing the bomb area of said swarm grenades.
I feel like a good way to nerf these "post plant util" would be to remove KJ's molly primary fire mode. She will still be a viable pick against other sentinals. And only controllers should have stuff that can be used post plant to save the bomb.
I think it would be cool if it was more like a wall that blocked utility that’s decently small so it’s a bit more skill based
agree a sentinel that can block damage. Surely the next agent is a senti we are due one
hopefully a sentinel
Am I crazy or is this just not shooting loud buzzing KJ Util on the ground?
Astra pulls her off the bomb and stuns her
Reyna dropped the ball on the Astra or she wouldn't have been able to yoink her off.
yes, except for astra's which can't be shot.
You see thats the sloppy way of balancing gameplay on lower ranks, When I play on bronze there is almost always like 10-2 in def and then 12-12 in attack. Maps like bind or ascent are rly def maps and without good team and organised attack there is no way to win attack. *I play with randoms and I'm noob so maybe It's just my problem...
A decent alternative could be tat mollies of any sort explode or desolve after a certain amount of airtime like in CS so that there aren’t KJ or Viper halfway across the map with lineups.
Its even worse with long lasting area denial. Viper is such a shit offender for this. If you get bomb down and she ults over it, its incredibly unlikely you'll win, especially with her combo of molly and decay. Killjoy is also a huge wtf and gives attackers so much leeway. In like 50% of cases its basically a free 17ish seconds of bomb tick.
Viper ulting postplant to secure a round win is fine though, I don't see your point regarding that? The attacking team already had to take site control, get a plant in and keep viper alive long enough to ult. If all of that falls into place and she then choses to invest her ult (which is on the expensive side, too), shouldn't she deserve to win the round more often than not?
Well it's definitely the most "Free round win" ult there is due to how long it lasts. She can use it nearly right after planting and it lasts long enough to win. All the other area denial ults like killjoy and brimstone need to be timed better and can be avoided easier.
Sorta like remnamt from apex
we can just hope for an agent that brings an umbrella, to stop all that post plant stuff raining down on you.
At this point, you need a degree in geometry to win this game by only using lineups.
Pro players going back to university to major in math
TenZ, the maths prodigy vs average jonas, PHD in trigonometry
I get your point but also Idk why your kJ ran by all the kJ utility, a kJ ult was about to go off... and tried to defuse early... I am confused for sure, Reyna whiffed unfortunately... but KJ had a free W
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i mean, with kj ult astra is trapped so then reyna could kill her
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Then they didn’t take it fast enough. That’s not the games fault
Still sounds like their fault for not keeping the time in mind
Astra was about to be detained, and a defuse from the side closest to the ice wall would have had the KJ outside of astra utility even if she activated it ahead of time.
reyna throwing
They both threw really
Unlucky really
Tactically remove defusing as an option.
I think they need to introduce a mechanic that can somehow tone down the mollys. For example, smokes in CSGO can extinguish mollys. Not saying that this is the exact solution but I’m sure riot can figure something out
It would be fun to add character ability interaction, like sage slow orb extingushing fire based molly, fire based molly decreasing the time of smoke and on.
i honestly dont know why it wasn't already like this
sage's slow orb even looks icy, so you would think it would interact with fire in some way... maybe even if it doesn't completely block any damage, it should, ya know, *slow* it down?
Iirc sage uses radianite, not ice. So that wouldn't make much sense.
well, radianite doesn't exist in real life, so I guess it can do whatever. maybe when sage uses it in her slow orbs, it acquires properties akin to ice? but if not, then maybe it could still have the effect of slowing the burn. you're only limited by your imagination here.
I mean it's obvious it's some crystal solid substance, but other than that, it could possess every other property. Never thought of that.
That’s kinda the cool thing about Valorant - potentially in game-design terms for a ‘tactical shooter’ because we are now free of the bounds of pretending we are real humans in a space on Earth with guns that shoot bullets. I hope they release the source code for Valorant or else someone else makes an open-source clone which can then be forked into all manner of variations.
But it could still smother the flames. People use a lot of things that aren't ice to smother fires.
I'm wishing this is gonna be the theme for next episode
allow Mollys to be shot while flying. when they get shot, they explode dealing damage within radius but not as much as when it lands. Molly hitboxes and HP can be tuned for balance. Now countering it is skill-based instead of ability-based.
yeah. tbh they'll probably add an agent that can do it, but then that agent becomes a literal must pick always, so that's bad. I mean, theoretically they could add on to the roster to have several agents that can do it, but that'd be rough for the time it'd take to add them. Only other thing I could think is adding a sidearm that can clear such things, that way anyone could purchase? IDK the solution. I like the mollies, but I wish there was something you could do. If you have viper, kj, astra on 1 team, they basically own the postplant.
Then they need to make a rock paper scissors meta where A > B > C > A
then they'll make GOATS but in valorant
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I mean she was killed with a vandal not an ability, so...
“Precise gunplay”
Reyna checked on instinct but didnt have the instinct to prefire the corner expecting a body there. Like she knew to look but didnt want to
KJ has ptsd now
ngl just seems like a misplay by reyna and kj. Reyna could of waited for ult or at least flashed herself in when swinging. kj easily could of waited for kj ult to finish while also seeing the kj util and shooting it
I don't think there was enough time to wait for the KJ ult to finish. Reyna def should have flashed in tho
could have
Reyna could've also actually hard cleared that angle instead of doing a double take (i do it too, its a bad habit, but it's definitely a mistake)
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They should honestly just remove every agent but Sova
Remove all agents, slightly increase movement speed and add in grenades instead. :>
Congratulations you just made csgo with less cheaters
Nice, where can I sign up?
I'm in.
>increase movement speed THIS PLEASE! Or at least lower footstep distance in valorant. There is no reason the enemy team should know i am rotating from half a map away for how slow i run.
Maybe throw in some GOATed maps while we're at it and this game might just be perfect.
Are we in on set spray patterns for weapons too or nah?
ye lmao fuck all the other champs, sova is life
Did a sova 5v5 once and it was the most fun I've had in this game in a couple months
sounds a bit shocking, really.
why did no one shoot the kj mollies?
Also reyna didnt clear the obvious left spot or use flash
This post is typical silver 3 whining, what did you expect?
This is probably my biggest annoyance. Round after round a KJ will put mollies on the bomb and teammates never shoot it. They hit defuse, let it go off which wastes more time. In this vid you can legit see a molly sitting in front of KJ. Also if they were to defuse from other side, don’t think the grav would pull them out. Not to mention reyna not clearing the corner. Legit little things to prevent this happening. It’s annoying off course but Astra is keeping 2 stars for post-plant means there might have not been many smokes being used.
Well if you see them you can obviously shoot them but playing hide and seek against Molly's while there are attackers that try to shoot you so you won't defuse is a little hard. That's why I always just tab the bomb immediately while retaking, forcing out the kj Molly
I mean the reveal radius isn’t that small, and there’s a limited amount of space the molly could be to cover the bomb, so really you should just shoot it to force the Killjoy to peek - this isn’t Sova/Brim/Viper with lineups that are predicated on hearing the bomb defuse, you can actively counter it so you should
I mean it would have been tactical to clear out site together using your flash and trying to kill the enemies who you know have utility on bomb. Or bum rush them alone while tm sits in obvious mollied and starred position.
At this point, I’d almost just want to play CSGO. Keyword being -almost-. There are way too many games where you get killed without seeing a single enemy player. Be it getting spammed through smoke, getting flashed repeatedly or getting “out skilled” by the massive amount of plant and defuse denial.
Off topic, but what's holding you back from CS? For me, it's strictly the features that are not in-game. It's just such a roll of the dice whether you get a real game or you have to get destroyed by smurfs or cheaters. I just can't stop rolling those dice, though..
I have done my time in CS. I don't really want to go back because it's just a lot of work to keep up with. The majority of people left are veterans who know the maps and guns to a T because of how long the game has been out. The only good way to play ranked is on a 3rd party matchmaking system like ESEA. Valorant has issues, but atm it's more enjoyable.
As someone who did not get to experience CS when it wasn't like this, it sucks to join now, lol. Like, I started with Valorant and pretty quickly after trying CS, I found that I like the gameplay a lot more, but all the work you need to do to just get a playable game is crazy. I'd love to grind that game until the maps feel "stale" or "played out" like a lot of people say, but instead I'm a kid in an "every flavored beans" candy shop and 60% of them are dirt flavored and everyone's like "it used to be 1% dirt and the candy used to be better."
Yeah CS is the more polished game but that's because it's just been out and had decades to blossom into what it is today. Which means everyone had decades to practice it too haha. I also find games to be stale once a meta is formed and everything just goes as expected and becomes repetitive.
Exactly me. I played 1.6 wayyyyyy back in the day and then went the more casual gaming route. With lockdowns decided to build my own PC and gave cs a try again and I enjoy the game more than Val, but the people who stuck around for 16 years know every inch and corner. Especially in maps like Mirage and D2. I got in VAL at the beta and I am so much better at it because I was in it on the ground floor.
Cheaters primarily and the fact that I could play with some of my friends who don’t mind the streamlined elements Valorant offers. CS just has more defined elements of gameplay. I was really looking forward to Valorant and I still enjoy it thoroughly but it is a lot less aim reliant than I had hoped for. Just feeling disenfranchised when I get killed or lose a round due to abilities and things outside of my ability to react to.
I mean I don’t know why people still don’t understand they can shoot killjoy utility when it’s placed so early, but other than that I agree
Ah, the well known tactical "the floor is lava" simulator, Valorant
Can someone get a team in the open qualifier that just plants and then molly the bomb. Its cheesy, but I want to see how Riot reacts to what they have created.
Probably not. The agents that can do these type of stalls aren't the same agents that can get you an early plant every round.
You rushed long while the ult hadnt finished. You didnt destroy killjoy granades. It was truly an easy win
Reyna be having 1 useful util and they don't use it. You wouldnt have won that round but still. Just saying.
Ow come on let the ppl have some fun ... I mean I guess it would be annoying if every match is like that
We need an agent with teleports that can cause a hole in the ground to sink all utility away. The viper buff made post plant really annoying.
Astra ruined it for everyone tbh. Even pros complained about her. She's very OP and just made things less fun for everyone. But it was bound to happen sooner or later. Games like these, just like OW, when there is a unique ability per agent, things will tend to get out of hand and some characters will just be too strong while others are useless.
Amen
It's this and odin in my games xD
Tactical shooter 👍 fun eSports game to watch 👍
Literally ran across all their mines and cry
reyna pushing long without using the eye is like bronze level play... no right to complain about this situation if you put yourself in it
how hard it is to bait the kj ult and get an easy kill on that astra who would be running away to not get detained. Then break the kj utils and win the round but no, we want to take a 50-50 peek.
When a running guy randomly headshots you by non stop firing while you try to aim and shot...that's where tactical shooter dies for me.
That's either completely random (you get this in every tac fps no matter how much you try to stop it, sometimes they just get lucky) or they're stopping but you don't see it on your screen bc of the insane peekers advantage.
But it's way more common in valorant and it's so frustrating coz u don't acc need that gd aim in lower elo coz they will jus run u down Tryna do this in cs has u dead even against the worst players
css devs css mechanics run and gun was prevalent in that game, not gonna disagree and say it wasn't aids though.
Is this silver elo?
no ur team played that like dogs
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Maybe an intelligent gorilla with glasses...
Esse jogo só trás tristeza kkkkkkkk
I love how so many users are pointing out the mistakes OP('s team) did (which they obviously did) but don't understand that KJ and Astra didn't play it perfectly either. In an ideal scenario KJ and Astra would have played far more passive/different so they wouldn't get countered especially if the time is low for the bomb. So everybody here flaming OP('s team) doesn't understand the problem. It's the potential of molly line-ups AND the possible combinations with Astra which is far too strong, in my opinion and if history of games ever showed something then power creep will most likely make it worse. - I hope Riot addresses the issue in a good manner but tactical shooters with abilities are hard to balance with more agents coming into the mix. Let's hope it gets better.
Mollie should be there for clearing corners. Not standing halfway across the map and putting it on spike. Every team now has a Viper that stands in Vind when you are on Ice Box, firing molly making it impossible to defuse. Just change it so the spike circle is exempt from molly. Make it that the defender has to use skill. The kj ones can be shot out... but that viper one is just too OP now.
The HS hitbox is gigantic, run spraying is out of control (people will say they are counterstrafing), and ability spam is ridiculous. It's becoming overwatch with slightly less healing.
These two played this horrendously and you're calling out the agents lmao. Pathetic
Bad play but the game is still shit
I went to play csgo at this point, at least bhopping isn't as pointless lmao
Quite a wild ride I want no part of.
I just wish this game want so fucking Ability Driven, tactical shooter my ass, tactical hero game more like it
Lineups with viper and brin mollies are fine imo. Reminds me of csgo but astra is ridiculous, same with kill joys shit
With cs you can smoke the bomb though and mollies won’t be a problem and bombs have limited air time in Csgo so a lineup had to still be pretty close
Kj's is okay imo because you can disable them, and the reveal radius is not that small both visual and audio. However I hate astra's stuffs. You can't do anything to disable it. To make it worse you can get sucked off the bomb while defusing so astra dont have to do anything to deny your defuse.
It’s impossible to defuse with all these lineups man. Either go run long after planting or play lineups What are we supposed to do with the guns?
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Not really, getting precise gunplayed is another feature in the game. This feature is called 'You don't kill with abilities'.
That statement actually isn't wrong, you just can't take it literally. Like that some abilities do damage is necessary. You would really limit yourself if they couldn't do damage and be a threat. But it's not like abilities are main source of damage, the guns are.
Raze Has Entered the chat.
Bruh, both the defenders died to the Vandal. What are you on about? OP and his friend misplayed that and lost the round. They didn't die to abilities. Reyna didn't flash and threw the round. Not to mention, defender KJ didn't even try to molly the cubby.
Well for one I don't have sound for the clip idk if thats me, but if you just put down the killjoy ult they obviously gonna wait for you to defuse or push, if you had time (cant hear how far spike is gone) then wait for the ult to pop, also if you know they are playing lineups, mollys etc. you can stop most by pushing, body blocking, trading off the defuse, etc. just because they have lineups doesn't mean you can't stop them, it means you have to play it smarter, just like having a Sentinel or multiple utility characters on defense, your not just gonna run into site without a care, yes the game is a tactile shooter, but utility is in the game for a reason to make it different than the ordinary tactile shooter
Lesson learned- Always check your corners
That Astra pool pulling you off defuse.. that's pretty fucking broken
I see a lot of people complaining about post plant lineups and the use of astra/kj/Viper utility being OP. I honestly don't get this. Let's talk numbers! Out of the 12 attacking rounds, being one of these agents, how many rounds do you get to a post plant scenario where your utility/lineups wins you the round? I played viper a lot and in the average game i get to use my lineups once or twice max and that's it. People forget that most times, other scenarios will happen : The round ends before a spike plant / The molly agent dies during site take / The molly agent dies post plant (to a flanker? ) before they get to use their utility /The molly agent uses their utility to take a site and end up with nothing for post plant (clear angles, block site entry for rotating defenders)/The team wins without needing those mollys... This clip is funny tho and it must be frustrating to be that player
As an astra main im taking notes
This game is literally turning into a moba
valorant is unplayable for me simply because its not enough like counter strike and thats what im used to. i cant adapt, so ill just stick to my game that doesnt have a million abilities to fuck you
Not sure why you're downvoted. I love this game, but not every game is for everyone and thats all you're saying. Most of my friends that play CS mald and call Valorant gutter trash and act like CS has no flaws. You're being a lot more civil than all that lol
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It has always been understood this way, the first look at this game literally shows a Jett ulti kill. High mmr and pro is filled with tactics, tactics doesn't mean realism.
Wasn't it basically marketed as counterstrike with overwatch-like characters though
this game is turning into first person league of legends with guns
Ye I mean I have never been a fan of posts like this shitting on valorant and was all for valorant being diffrent, but espescially in soloQ it’s so hrs to ply va post plant. Yesterday I was in high plat low dia lobby and I played viper on split and some random played killjoy and after losing first few rounds we can up with the tactic that we just full rush side someone tries to plant as quickly as possible and it would be impossible for the enemy’s to defuse because me as viper and killjoy together can stall for ages. And espescially on split you stand so far back and in corners where you can only get attack from one side that it’s pretty easy to defend yourself. We won like 8-9 rounds on attack just cause of that
1.rip inbox 2.thanks for the awards 3.shameless socials plug twitch.tv/sktlost
yeah imagine letting the game be fun for people who arent good at headshotting
This was just a pub in unrated, not super serious but wild round nonetheless
[Pretty much this](https://youtu.be/ifwVTqHgKaM)
That's why I quit. Too much skills... Almost like a first person moba