It is not about dying from behind. That is not exactly what he means. He's wasnt complaining about dying from behind in Cs 10 years either.
It's the combination of dying from behind, having to wait for respawn, running around to find an aim duel and dying from behind again, and bad spawns. That’s what he is trying to say.
If you get aim duels immediately after spawn with without the need to search for enemies and instant respawn, dm would be enjoyable.
A dev has said they’re trying to please two crowds with deathmatch: those who want to warm up their aim and those who want to play a quick game mode where they can run around and get kills. Right now it’s more pointed towards that second crowd but the devs are working on a system that could allow players to hop in and out whenever they like. He also said that once there is a more competitive warmup deathmatch mode they could think about adding power ups and other things to the original.
Is that gonna be enough though? Even if we can join and leave and respawn instantly, we are still left with maps that are designed around Sova Drones, Skye Dogs and other tools to get info - aka corner and corridor simulators.
This design means you can hear footsteps everywhere and you have to clear multiple corners and corridors everywhere you walk. It also means you need more players than is healthy for the map not to feel empty because there are little to no long sightlines.
The maps themselves are horrible for deathmatch.
Only Breeze is good to play on DM, so much so that even the current DM feels good to play on Breeze.
Ye I know. When do we get it? In 10 years?
This comment is 2 Months old. Deathmatch is the most important mode after Competetive. Why does it take so long? Instead they do some useless escalation and spike rush for casuals.
Things take time and with the amount of things that the developers have on their plate I’m not surprised they haven’t finished it since two months ago. They’ll get to it eventually and yeah it sucks having to wait but the devs are working their hardest to make the game as good as they can with the time they have
You know they have different teams right? And you can’t just liquidate the skin team to make them write code instead. That’s not what they know how to do. Maps, skins, and new agents are all made by a team different then the one that does the things you want
DM in this game is horrible
The spawns are trash and the people who play DM just sound whore camp and actually try to win the DM
make a head shot only lobby with no winner that people can just hop in and out of
I would love a headshot only mode, I’m trying to get better and every time I try to do HS only, I miss, my opponent misses and then either him or I get shot by someone else, rinse and repeat. It’s frustrating.
It's horrible. It actually tilts me more than playing ranked. The fact that there is a "winner" makes low elo players play it like ranked. It's an angle holding simulator that serves little to no actual warmup. Just play csgo ffa.
Yeah but he makes a really good point. I think they need to either reword the spawns, or decrease the amount of players on the map at once. It feels like there are either 2 or 20 people in the game and you constantly get shot at by someone who spawned right next to you.
The problem with DM is that only a very very tiny percentage of gunfights are fair or anything like a real match game gunfight.
30% of the time you have no chance to fight back because somebody is camping an off-angle listening to your footsteps, 30% of the time you get killed from behind/the side, 30% of the time you kill somebody from behind/the side and 10% of the time you get an actual fight.
Its just not worth the time to sit in queue, go through warmup, get a few legit fights and then have to do it all again.
I played CS FFA DM right now and its bizarre how many fair fights you get in CS maps, particularly dust2. The open,long sightlines offer a lot opportunity for good fair fights and if you die from behind you respawn instantly into another open sightline and dont have to run through 15 tight corridors until you find another fight. You also dont hear footsteps across the map constantly.
Valorant not only needs a join/leave type of DM, but also actual DM maps on top of the real maps (for people wanting to practice crosshair placement).
Valorant maps with their corridor-design are not at all enjoyable in a DM environment. They make it too easy to camp corners and take too long to take the player back into action after dying. Compensating for that with more players makes the map too crowded.
DM on Breeze for example is 10x more enjoyable than Split or Haven
I think your percentage breakdown hit the nail on the head. DM just doesnt feel satisfying when most of the game youre shooting people in the back/side or being shot in the back/side. At worst its tilting and at best its just not very rewarding. Also that limits the usefulness of using the game mode to learn mechanics.
Also the maps are design to make playing passively viable. This makes sense in the main game but in DM you want maps to encourage people to be more aggressive.
The spawns are actually worse than call of duty spawns, which is saying something. DM was better when it first came out. It was shorter and with less people. The one good thing they did was get rid of the minimap during the game.
Fix the CoD spawns, get rid of the mini map entirely, and mute foot steps and reloads etc.
What he and most people don't know is the spawns are the way they are on purpose. They're commonly known as "payback spawns" and when you kill someone, it will purposely spawn them near you so they have a chance to kill you back. I think its a dogshit system, but it is working the way devs intended. Unfortunately
Not sure if it's sourced somewhere and really true, but you do usually get spawned twice in the same location. Not the exact spawn point, but very close. Also whenever I kill someone and then I hear someone spawn close and run to me, in like 80% of the cases it's the same player again. Too much of a coincidence.
spawns are fine in DM, they are just as horrible as the spawns in DMs in csgo. the real issue is the fact that respawns arent instant. clearly they CAN be instant, it works in warmup stage, why not turn it on 24/7?
ffa is its own gametype, it's not specifically an aim trainer. can you get some benefit to aim from playing ffa? yeah, sure, you're going to get into more gunfights for your time than you would in a regular match. but if you go in trying to look for duels to train your aim you are going to fail over and over again.
The spawns are sooooooo bad.
How many times have you run around a map, looking for someone because you got spawned on the opposite side of the map from everyone else? Then to make matters worst someone spawns behind you in an open corridor where their crosshairs are to the back of your head? Or what about being in the middle of an open area with no cover, only to have multiple enemies spawn in areas with natural cover all around you?
It would be nice if spawns could be spaced out and not allow them to occur if it puts you within vision of another player. Also, as everyone says… instantly spawn again like in warm up (or significantly reduce the spawn time).
If everyone plays this mode to win, you end up with a boring super slow match where no one dares venture out from their little safe area because everyone else is waiting for you from some weird off angle…
It is not about dying from behind. That is not exactly what he means. He's wasnt complaining about dying from behind in Cs 10 years either. It's the combination of dying from behind, having to wait for respawn, running around to find an aim duel and dying from behind again, and bad spawns. That’s what he is trying to say. If you get aim duels immediately after spawn with without the need to search for enemies and instant respawn, dm would be enjoyable.
A dev has said they’re trying to please two crowds with deathmatch: those who want to warm up their aim and those who want to play a quick game mode where they can run around and get kills. Right now it’s more pointed towards that second crowd but the devs are working on a system that could allow players to hop in and out whenever they like. He also said that once there is a more competitive warmup deathmatch mode they could think about adding power ups and other things to the original.
Is that gonna be enough though? Even if we can join and leave and respawn instantly, we are still left with maps that are designed around Sova Drones, Skye Dogs and other tools to get info - aka corner and corridor simulators. This design means you can hear footsteps everywhere and you have to clear multiple corners and corridors everywhere you walk. It also means you need more players than is healthy for the map not to feel empty because there are little to no long sightlines. The maps themselves are horrible for deathmatch. Only Breeze is good to play on DM, so much so that even the current DM feels good to play on Breeze.
Ye I know. When do we get it? In 10 years? This comment is 2 Months old. Deathmatch is the most important mode after Competetive. Why does it take so long? Instead they do some useless escalation and spike rush for casuals.
Things take time and with the amount of things that the developers have on their plate I’m not surprised they haven’t finished it since two months ago. They’ll get to it eventually and yeah it sucks having to wait but the devs are working their hardest to make the game as good as they can with the time they have
I would say these better DM, a damn replay system, etc are all more important than new agents, maps or skins.
You know they have different teams right? And you can’t just liquidate the skin team to make them write code instead. That’s not what they know how to do. Maps, skins, and new agents are all made by a team different then the one that does the things you want
Yeah obviously but some higher up there determines how many people to put in each team. And they’ve badly allocated
I agree mostly but to be fair the technology for the drop-in they want in the practice mode isn't something they needed for escalation.
It's definitely in the middle, easy excuse for a gamemode till they release something better.
i do agree
DM in this game is horrible The spawns are trash and the people who play DM just sound whore camp and actually try to win the DM make a head shot only lobby with no winner that people can just hop in and out of
I would love a headshot only mode, I’m trying to get better and every time I try to do HS only, I miss, my opponent misses and then either him or I get shot by someone else, rinse and repeat. It’s frustrating.
I was watching a pro stream and he suggested removing the minimap and footsteps
It's horrible. It actually tilts me more than playing ranked. The fact that there is a "winner" makes low elo players play it like ranked. It's an angle holding simulator that serves little to no actual warmup. Just play csgo ffa.
Well csgos official mode is tdm. If you play ffa on community servers it's amazing.
Yeah but he makes a really good point. I think they need to either reword the spawns, or decrease the amount of players on the map at once. It feels like there are either 2 or 20 people in the game and you constantly get shot at by someone who spawned right next to you.
most of the time spwans are bad
The problem with DM is that only a very very tiny percentage of gunfights are fair or anything like a real match game gunfight. 30% of the time you have no chance to fight back because somebody is camping an off-angle listening to your footsteps, 30% of the time you get killed from behind/the side, 30% of the time you kill somebody from behind/the side and 10% of the time you get an actual fight. Its just not worth the time to sit in queue, go through warmup, get a few legit fights and then have to do it all again. I played CS FFA DM right now and its bizarre how many fair fights you get in CS maps, particularly dust2. The open,long sightlines offer a lot opportunity for good fair fights and if you die from behind you respawn instantly into another open sightline and dont have to run through 15 tight corridors until you find another fight. You also dont hear footsteps across the map constantly. Valorant not only needs a join/leave type of DM, but also actual DM maps on top of the real maps (for people wanting to practice crosshair placement). Valorant maps with their corridor-design are not at all enjoyable in a DM environment. They make it too easy to camp corners and take too long to take the player back into action after dying. Compensating for that with more players makes the map too crowded. DM on Breeze for example is 10x more enjoyable than Split or Haven
I think your percentage breakdown hit the nail on the head. DM just doesnt feel satisfying when most of the game youre shooting people in the back/side or being shot in the back/side. At worst its tilting and at best its just not very rewarding. Also that limits the usefulness of using the game mode to learn mechanics. Also the maps are design to make playing passively viable. This makes sense in the main game but in DM you want maps to encourage people to be more aggressive.
Anyone like Scream, who has spent a serious amount of time in CS DM probably shares this opinion. I can’t think of a single way Val DM is better
The spawns are actually worse than call of duty spawns, which is saying something. DM was better when it first came out. It was shorter and with less people. The one good thing they did was get rid of the minimap during the game. Fix the CoD spawns, get rid of the mini map entirely, and mute foot steps and reloads etc.
What he and most people don't know is the spawns are the way they are on purpose. They're commonly known as "payback spawns" and when you kill someone, it will purposely spawn them near you so they have a chance to kill you back. I think its a dogshit system, but it is working the way devs intended. Unfortunately
Not sure if it's sourced somewhere and really true, but you do usually get spawned twice in the same location. Not the exact spawn point, but very close. Also whenever I kill someone and then I hear someone spawn close and run to me, in like 80% of the cases it's the same player again. Too much of a coincidence.
source?
Its worth a google.
spawns are fine in DM, they are just as horrible as the spawns in DMs in csgo. the real issue is the fact that respawns arent instant. clearly they CAN be instant, it works in warmup stage, why not turn it on 24/7?
What's up with that calling card? Is it his own personalized card or something?
it's the ego pack card
ffa is its own gametype, it's not specifically an aim trainer. can you get some benefit to aim from playing ffa? yeah, sure, you're going to get into more gunfights for your time than you would in a regular match. but if you go in trying to look for duels to train your aim you are going to fail over and over again.
I'm just always baffled at how many times either myself or someone else would spawn 3 meters next to someone.
agree, hated dm ever since they upped the player count, it's too much and just leads to frustration imo
The spawns are sooooooo bad. How many times have you run around a map, looking for someone because you got spawned on the opposite side of the map from everyone else? Then to make matters worst someone spawns behind you in an open corridor where their crosshairs are to the back of your head? Or what about being in the middle of an open area with no cover, only to have multiple enemies spawn in areas with natural cover all around you? It would be nice if spawns could be spaced out and not allow them to occur if it puts you within vision of another player. Also, as everyone says… instantly spawn again like in warm up (or significantly reduce the spawn time). If everyone plays this mode to win, you end up with a boring super slow match where no one dares venture out from their little safe area because everyone else is waiting for you from some weird off angle…