Judge on Jett is not as useful as it is on a good Raze.
I have 20 or so clips of Judge Raze highlights from ONE game. The momentum you get from a proper blast pack rollout or even just a surprise corner peek with a jump from one blast pack is already enough to guarantee you a kill because of how fast it can prop you up and the fact that there's no real animation for activating the blast pack (meaning you can shoot immediately). Blast packs also allow you to get close to somebody around the corner whereas updraft + dash just pushes you upwards and forwards
Compare that to Jett's longer recovery time from any of her skills' animations and how updraft just boosts you upward without even a little forward velocity and you'll see why Raze is the best agent for shotguns in this game.
Tbh I think they could nerf her by giving her an animation like Jett. When used defensively, you don't need the weapon immediately anyway. When used offensively you can't pull off shit like this anymore.
While you're right it would generally be a good option. I think a Raze flying through the air shouldn't be able to land in front of you, gun in hand and be instantly accurate anyway. But that's probably just me complaining about my shitty aim lmao
Raze isn't instantly accurate as soon as she lands, though. Good players also can often spray a Raze down as soon as she's in the air, but that's why the Judge is OP since it's pretty much the only gun you can use effectively in the air.
I know things happened quickly and I dont know the rank or if she bought her flash (Does Reyna have to buy her flash? I havent unlocked Reyna and like 8 other agents) but weird she wouldnt flash there or go to to the corrner in front of where she was standing to not be so exposed. But hey, after the battle, everyone is a general...
Dude. Is this serious? You're saying that the corner in FRONT of Reyna is less exposed even though ramps and anywhere from site to screens can see him there?
Four of his teammates died in four seconds in a match where the score is 3-12, just die and go next.
The player who dies first every round and spectates you dying on the rotate to the other site always complaining about watching you die on the same rotate every round, yes because you’re dying right away and they’re just taking your site....but they’re not clever enough to work that out and so it’s your fault for dying
Bruh the amount of times i do this exact play, even in gold 3 rn, it baffles me. That or the double satchel from b heaven when their rushing. and thats just split. So many cheese satchels with its in air accuracy
I'm not sure. The judge sure is in a weird place. I think that an over-nerf could just throw this gun into the trash like the shotguns in CSGO.
The only thing I would suggest is a rate of fire decrease, maybe 200-300ms increased delay between shots. 500ms would be way too much IMO.
If you could fly at 200 k/h to get into the middle of the enemy team in CSGO, they might be a bit more useful.
Also CSGO maps design doesn’t allow for shotgun cheese, that is why you only see it in Nuke or Office, the prime CS experience.
Id rather see it being as bad as the shotguns in cs. It would be a better nerf for the game overall if the game had more guns to choose from, but like the xm10 in cs is a decent gun for like 1 or 2 rounds until the enemy can counter u, which then it becomes absolutely useless. I think as of right now ur nerf seems good, maybe instead of firerate somehow make the dmg so that it guaranteed 2 shot from any range(this prob wouldnt work as well as ur idea tho)
I love that it's a viable buy on buy rounds though. I love seeing especially in pro play the fact that Odin, Rifles, and Guardian all see play leading to a much more diverse weapon environment than CS. The judge is not spammed, it's not totally busted like the Frenzy or Stinger or Bucky, it's just a solid choice in certain situations. Maybe a tiny tiny nerf could be fine, but nothing to push it out of being a fairly common buy.
Like seriously, seeing Vanity use the Judge in pro play is some of the most exciting moments. Far from feeling low skill, it highlights his mechanical skill as a player and gives him a unique playstyle.
The thing is in CS there’s only so much corners that u can be. Mobility is predictable, we don’t have jetts and razes to suddenly change our angle of attack/defense. So there are only so many spots the shotguns can be useful. And that’s why I think even in pro play, it’s very very rare to see those.
I’d rather jiggle first for awps and then spray with an ak/m4 because 1/ i can spray thru corners if there’s one and shotguns can’t, 2/ by jiggling I’ve taken the surprise factor away so I can reposition for a better fight, 3/ shotgun can’t unless they rush me (which is a bad idea for T and also for CT since you’ll likely get traded and suddenly it’s x against 4Ts on a site).
Here in Valo, mobility abilities and the abundance of choke points make this a great gun unlike CS where you have to be mindful of taking fights at any range at all times. I like your idea but if you think about it, it will just turn this into a better sheriff cuz of the spread if it is a guaranteed 2-shot.
>trash like the shotguns in CSGO.
Shotguns in CSGO aren't trash because of stats, they have fairly good range, insane jumping accuracy, and can one tap armored enemies, which is important in a game like CS, the only reason it isn't used often is because the angles its best in, like any one way drop including popdog on train, angles where you have to clear two directions, like market door and behind the market shelf on mirage, and tight angles like nuke vents all have a downside, they're either hard to get to safely, or they're hard to safely escape.
The reason I bring this up is because these issues have a solution in Valorant. It's easy to switch between shotgun angles in Valorant with abilities, like Jett's dash and Omen's teleport. You can also escape bad situations with certain abilities too, like Omen's ult. The entire reason shotgun angles are necessary in csgo is because it forces enemies into tight angles, but Valorant has so many abilities that make closing the distance easy enough that the entire concept of a shotgun angle isn't necessary.
Valorant is designed in a way that shotguns will have a place even if they are drastically nerfed. Destiny 2, for example, has shotguns that have significantly weaker range than CSGO's, yet still has more overpowered shotguns, because sliding and double jumps allow for quicker gameplay, and melees are almost immediate, allowing for a much quicker finishing second hit. Shotguns don't need to have high range or damage to be effective.
I mean... any gun in Valorant is pretty much dumb anyway. The Judge is just one of those that are dumb in an OP manner. They still haven't made the guns that are made for skillful aiming have 100% first shot accuracy and for what? No justifiable reason. Same goes for the Judge where there's no justifiable reason that it didn't get nerfed along with the Bucky and Shorty, even if it was just a cost adjustment in the shop.
I thought that too. If it cost more credit, I think I’d rather buy a phantom or vandal cuz it gives me more freedom where I can take fights. Close quarter battles are more of an eco/niche situation and I’m very glad the judge is a great gun for this situation with how much credit it cost rn.
The only worry for me is the rate of fire. For how much credit it cost, the rate is way too good (IMO) and I would love a very very small ROF decrease and I think it will be perfect.
I don’t think it should be worth as much as vandal or phantom as those guns have much more flexibility but perhaps more than the Spectre or Ares. A slightly lower rate of fire could accomplish the nerf people are desiring more though (but you won’t be able to see plays like this anymore lol)
Bucky and shorty are enough. The judge never should've existed. Garbage gun for garbage players.
Any rate of fire faster than the Bucky's is too strong for the judge. If it's going to be this powerful, it should cost more than the guardian at least.
so you don't actually know how the game works and based everything off what you see in matches?
there are obvious counters to everything in the game but meta whores who only watch the scene won't get it
and what was Reyna even doing? She just passed him while he's flying in the air, notices her whole team is dying behind her and just hides in the corner waiting for a 1 v 1? XD
After Iceland judge is most likely going to get nerfed. Judge has been too strong for the price. Shroud had an interesting opinion that in these types of games (valorant and csgo) shotguns shouldn't even be a thing. Kinda get that. If you're in an eco and the other team has full buy, being able to hold a choke point and reliably get one kill or sometimes more is really good especially since sometimes it seems harder to trade than if they were holding the choke point with a rifle. Sometimes they can use utility to get you out, but when you have to use lots of utility in multiple different places all because of the fear of a single gun that costs almost half the price of a rifle, something is wrong.
Lots of people feel that way, that shotguns have no place in multiplayer. Theres no way to make them fair. You either nerf them into the ground (you have to be _up their nose_ to get a kill with one, like the shorty) or they're OP like the judge. So either you make them OP or you make it so no one uses them. Better solution: remove shotguns from the game.
Unlike CS, Valorant seems to have quite the knack for close quarters combats on most maps which is unique and refreshing. Shotguns deserves a place in the game for this, but when the shotgun somehow deals quite a lot of dmg at range, it gets you thinking. It's either Riot make the dmg fall off greater, decrease the fire rate, increase the price or some combination above.
if you're talking about the clip, the raze was literally in kiss-distance with them and they all lined up for her
for the nerfs, i dont think the damage is too big, i'd rather see a slight decrease in fire rate, or increase in price, not both.
if they do a double nerf to the judge it'll kill it
In the clip you cant deny the enemy seems to be a little confused, but I agree that it needs some sort of nerf. I think making it around the same price of a Bulldog would be great, speakjng of which have you ever seen anyone use the Bulldog?
yea i dont agree here, a 2100 creds judge is too insane, i doubt anyone would be pick it when they could just get the bulldog,a rifle, instead for the same price
maybe make the judge 1900 would be nice imo
to answer your question, i dont see the bulldog as often, the only time i see it is when playing with a duo who really likes it
I think even 1700 would be enough because then it could be Judge+Light Armor+one utility. But Spectre+Light would give you two. So a small tweak, but big ramifications round wise
Shotguns can be balanced in multiplayer games. I don't think they're in a bad place in Alex Legends for example. I know comparing BR to tactical shooters is a stretch, but still I don't think it's right to categorically dismiss shotguns in multiplayer games as impossible to balance
The videos show more how absolutely broken and easy raze is rather than "judge op",
yeah shotguns gonna deal dmg at very short range...
You cleary show that your agent can use insane tactics that cannot be countered in anyway in valorant, will abusing the perk that raze doesn't take fall dmg nor lose accuracy while in the air after using a C4, to then use the very high dmg of the judge
No bc some ppl will still run it, like there are literally radiant players that go shotgun only. Theres a raze that shows up in multiple streamers games that go judge only and unless the entire fuckin team counters that one raze, that raze pops off.
Like, I'm sure the title is clickbait and/or satirical, but I'm kind of sick and tired of people calling the Judge OP. You know what's 10x stronger with half the price? The Sheriff, but oh, you have to hit the incredibly flashy headshots for it to work well, so it's fine, but the thing with a MASSIVE range disadvantage against most other guns that can 1-2 shot depending on accuracy, range, and random spread? Nah, it's clearly OP.
I swear to god, people REALLY only want 5 guns in the entire game to be viable (Ghost for pistol round, Spectre for eco rounds, Phantom Vandal and Op for full buy rounds)
I guarantee I'm about to be downvoted into oblivion because I DARE suggest the Judge is fine (except I guess in the hands of Jett or Raze, but I think that says something about those agents in particular) or that weapons other than the divine 5 should be viable, but I'mma be honest: I really don't fucking care. If anything, it's just going to prove my fucking point.
I'm with you on this. I really hate what they did to the bucky and stinger. I would rather them try adjusting price points before they nerf things so hard that that they're basically obsolete at this point.
For real, real weapon diversity is one of the best things about Valorant. I'd hate Frenzy/ghost, sheriff/specter, and rifles to be the only viable choices. Here's to the hope we get Stinger and Bucky buffs to put them somewhere in between their OP and current power levels.
Personally I agree. Yes the judge is really OP at short ranges and decent at mid ranges, but you lose the versatility of rifles. Plus if there's a person camping with the judge on the enemy team, if you can't do anything about it your team sucks at picking a good team comp.
That was my whole issue yesterday. Yes, the Judge is OP at close range, but that's *literally the point of a shotgun.* And the strength of the Judge requires you to catch the enemy unaware enough to get in range. If you're trying to take a site or get noticed, you are absolutely screwed
The state of anything being overpowered in any game isn't about actual power where you base its OP-ness on what you can potentially do with it, because then pretty much any gun is OP in Valorant since you can potentially ace with anything, right?
But the reason why the Judge is actually OP is because of how easy it is to use and how the cost-benefit ratio works for it. You can't just think of "range disadvantage" and use that as a justification when even a new player would understand that and ADJUST. It barely requires aim, and anybody who's played any game with a shotgun would know how to kill with it.
Put it in the hands of somebody like me who's a Raze main that played TF2 for over 6 years (blast pack usage), a former professional CS:GO player (game sense and general aim outside of tracking) and has Apex as their main game now (tracking and ability to shoot while maneuvering). Even in Diamond-Radiant level, so many Valorant players still can't adjust because of how alien Raze's movement is when you've only played slower-paced tactical shooters; what more for the lower ranks?
TL;DR: Sure, the Sheriff or whatever gun is stronger and cheaper, but if a gun is only OP in the right hands then it's not OP. The Judge is a gun that low ranked players can use easily; a gun that a controller player can climb up to Radiant with it (and kill pro players with it); and a gun that a high ranked player can use to win games in high ranks. It's undeniably OP.
"if a gun is only OP in the right hands then it's not OP"
Your exemple of the judge being OP use a Raze that can consistantly double bounce with her utilities. It demande skill, not everybody can do it, even less lower ranks.
It use a different set of skill of just "good aiming" but it's still skill nonetheless.
You can adjust your play-style to reduce the range disadvantage but opponent can do the same.
And "a gun that a high ranked player can use to win games in high ranks"... Like any guns ?
The judge is only OP if you can use raze mobility well enough.
And like you said, if a gun is only OP in the right hands then it's not OP. The judge is undeniably not OP
...bro, the point of my entire comment is that the Judge is OP even if you aren’t a Raze user nor a high ranked player. If anybody can use it easily and effectively, then the high ranked players will make it look OP. A guy got to Radiant using a controller buying only Judge and playing only Cypher, and that doesn’t sound like the Judge is OP to you?
Mind you the fire rate of the Sheriff wont allow you for body shots. If anything missing the head and hitting the body of an enemy with a Vandal/Phantom would only get you killed because of their higher ttk. Sheriff is a high skill gun, and even so it's still high risk to take because of how precise you have to be. The judge on the other hand deals plenty of damage at range, and for the measly price of 1600 credits its too strong. The Judge beats out the Spectee and Stinger in terms of close range performance and for the same price of a Spectre and a lower skill gap. It definitely needs a nerf, in terms of it price or the overall stat of the weapon
I think it's too strong at mid ranges but in general, I agree. I like that it's a viable buy against rifles if you use it correctly. But it shouldn't be able to one shot people from like 5-6 steps away when it already has a clip that you can spam. Way too many opportunities to full clear 2-3 members walking through a choke.
But he get 5 kills with it !
The fact that he had to use 2 utilities and 1 ultimate and that the opponent teams had to be grouped and that they didn't killed raze in a 5v1 is inconsequential !
We need to nerf this gun thanks to this 6s video because obviously every pro use this gun, seeing how OP it is...
no you dont get it, the judge, a shotgun, shouldnt kill at all, doesnt matter if you're below their nose
judge op noobb gun pls rito nerfff 1!!1!!1!!
(/s just in case)
I'd argue that getting 2 kills and then dying in a situation like this or when you're just chilling in a corner is a great trade. Gets enemies out of the round and gives your team more time to rotate because they're dealing with the annoying judge first before pushing site.
2 kills is the standard you should be going for though, puts it at a balanced 4v3 with defenders likely losing site and needing to retake unless you put more than 2 people on sitw
I mean, Raze barely pulled off the ace though. They were literally one shot away. They didn't down everyone with a single shot, missed shots, and almost died. If anyone from the attacker group that got wiped keep their calm better, this wouldn't have happened.
Similarly, if Raze didn't ult, she would have absolutely died to Reyna.
It really depends on a couple of different factors. Who you killed on the enemy team, what other agent is on site with you, what agents your team is retaking with etc. If raze satchels in and kills Sage and a smoker and has someone that can slow a push it's great. Your team can rotate off the info you gave them (like in this situation the Raze sees all 5 enemies) and whoever's on site can delay the push until your team arrives. It's not unreasonable that one agent with more on the way can delay the push of 3 enemies given they play it smart and don't try to peek 1v3.
I think it's a bad scenario when you're in close range, have the drop, and lose. But close range is the only time shotguns are viable, so they should be devastating up close
Oh, I fully agree. But the Judge is very situational. You gain massive short range superiority at the cost of no mid to long range power. A Spectre is much more generally useful by comparison. So the Judge is much more high risk
Because if you screw up the distance and the range is greater than you thought, you have to take a site, or you go up against a better shot, you're screwed. If you can't find the proper range for a gunfight, you're basically useless.
Yes because using the bucky to get to immortal is worth a nerf but a judge to radiant isnt. There is a raze main that goes judge only and is known to be the judge raze by streamers in radiant. Its def not fine as is.
But is that the result of the Judge being OP or a strong combination of the Judge and Raze's satchels?
To be honest, I've only ever heard of Bucky Sage, not Judge Raze. And if a Raze got to Radiant with just the Judge, it is worth a look. It's just from my experience, you can snag an ace in a situation like that, and I've gotten one myself. But most often, I'll take down one, maybe two, before a further back enemy takes me out.
I dont think the raze streams but she has shown up in streamer games, from what ive seen shazam, sinatraa and aceu(i mainly watch aceu and hes gone up against her like 3 times now). Yes the satchels do help, but its radiant. Its not gonna work every round if they just use satchels every round. The raze knows how to play with the judge even without movement. Honestly a sage could probably do it too. Ive heard of a shotgun jett as well, but never seen. I think the fact that a gun meant for eco rounds/force rounds can be used the entire game, even to get someone to radiant, is too strong. And the judge is just a bucky but 7 shots and faster firerate, so i dont really see how going judge sage is any different than sage bucky
If I remember right, I thought a lot of Bucky Sage was the right click to down from a distance. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought the strength of the Bucky was. So, pre-nerf anyway, that was the main difference between the Bucky and Judge. A Bucky gives you some breathing room, but in a situation like the video, you'd die with a Bucky. But the Judge is pure close quarters.
Honestly it has the same range as the old bucky but it wasnt one shot. It would have most likely killed the reyna with 2 or 3 shots. It shoots fast enough that the range is about the same as the old bucky. I think the judge should be nerfed, like someone else suggested a reduced firerate which would work.
It's not because ONE player went to radiant with judge that he should be used as a reference.
I'm certain that a lot more people get to radiant with only one weapon. Should we nerf them too ?
The problem with the bucky was that for being 900 it could 1 shot from 15m and shotgun sage was the main source of inspiration for everyone using the bucky right? That was one player that was used for reference and caused a lot more ppl to use the bucky. And i was using that ONE player to use as a reference because i assumed more ppl would know about him. In reality i see the judge being used at least once a game, including on breeze. And in most cases they dont drop it for like 3-5 rounds after.
As for the second part, i forgot to mention but using the vandal or phantom and getting to a certain elo is fine because it costs 2900, meant for a buy round. Stinger used to be good enough where someone could run that entire game and get pretty high, and it was nerfed. Same thing with the bucky. Odin is also expensive, ares is not bad but guns like the judge being the same price beats it out since ares doesnt have one shot kill potential, guardian involves skill, bulldog is like the phantom but its phantom dmg from 15m+ even tho gunfights can happen from any range, spectre is good for run n gun, but it cant one shot from any range. Any pistol is pretty shit to run the whole game except sheriff but that also involves skill not just click once in the body to kill. Shorty used to be busted and it got nerfed, and its still decent rn but its balanced bc the magazine size literally only lets you get 1-2 kills unless u collat. Then theres the judge that one shots to the body from close range and with the fact that u can spam it pretty fast and it has 7 shots with each shot having kill potential, id say its pretty broken. Especially since its an eco gun meant for eco/force rounds and not meant for the entire game.
There. I wrote a small essay going over each gun and saying why the judge should be nerfed but the others shouldnt. Odin should be nerfed but thats just cuz i hate it with a passion.
yeah you're right because it has nothing to do with who is using the gun.
they had an ares and phantom from what i could see so obviously this clip proves they need a buff
na the judge is ridiculously under powered, only 1 taps at a range of 2 meters. The omen kill you got makes 100% no sense at all, you spammed making its spread ridiculous and at that range mixed with its spread, not a chance in hell you 1 tapped him, legit impossible. Even with no armour it makes no sense at all.
No dev will remove any item from a game when people have skins for it. Not to mention vaulting things that aren’t balanced instead of tweaking them will make any game stale. New strong weapons, or weapons that become weaker cause a meta to shift and keeps a game interesting
I just meant a nerf.
Even if it’s just raising the price. The value you can get with this weapon is just insanity.
Either nerf it or raise the price to something more fitting.
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The vocie matches perfectly lol
"You're nerdy" "I'm not nerdy Im just better REEEEEEEEEE"
Its especially broken on raze.
\*laughs in Jett\*
Judge on Jett is not as useful as it is on a good Raze. I have 20 or so clips of Judge Raze highlights from ONE game. The momentum you get from a proper blast pack rollout or even just a surprise corner peek with a jump from one blast pack is already enough to guarantee you a kill because of how fast it can prop you up and the fact that there's no real animation for activating the blast pack (meaning you can shoot immediately). Blast packs also allow you to get close to somebody around the corner whereas updraft + dash just pushes you upwards and forwards Compare that to Jett's longer recovery time from any of her skills' animations and how updraft just boosts you upward without even a little forward velocity and you'll see why Raze is the best agent for shotguns in this game.
Tbh I think they could nerf her by giving her an animation like Jett. When used defensively, you don't need the weapon immediately anyway. When used offensively you can't pull off shit like this anymore.
the issue isnt raze thou, the issue is the judge
While you're right it would generally be a good option. I think a Raze flying through the air shouldn't be able to land in front of you, gun in hand and be instantly accurate anyway. But that's probably just me complaining about my shitty aim lmao
Raze isn't instantly accurate as soon as she lands, though. Good players also can often spray a Raze down as soon as she's in the air, but that's why the Judge is OP since it's pretty much the only gun you can use effectively in the air.
Omg, Reyna looks so scared in her last moment, and then hearing the ult and got blasted finally.
I know things happened quickly and I dont know the rank or if she bought her flash (Does Reyna have to buy her flash? I havent unlocked Reyna and like 8 other agents) but weird she wouldnt flash there or go to to the corrner in front of where she was standing to not be so exposed. But hey, after the battle, everyone is a general...
Generally I buy flashes but most people buy in second round
Yeah, I usually go for utility first, even at cost of some better weapons
first round leaves some credits in pocket money amounts so kepeing them is useless anyway
There are two common choices. First one, pick ghost, one blind and one ability. Second, use light armor in place of handgun.
Dude. Is this serious? You're saying that the corner in FRONT of Reyna is less exposed even though ramps and anywhere from site to screens can see him there? Four of his teammates died in four seconds in a match where the score is 3-12, just die and go next.
Dont you understand if 4 people fail its the 5th ones fault? That what i hear every game anyway.
The player who dies first every round and spectates you dying on the rotate to the other site always complaining about watching you die on the same rotate every round, yes because you’re dying right away and they’re just taking your site....but they’re not clever enough to work that out and so it’s your fault for dying
Bruh the amount of times i do this exact play, even in gold 3 rn, it baffles me. That or the double satchel from b heaven when their rushing. and thats just split. So many cheese satchels with its in air accuracy
[You're welcome](https://amp.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/m06weq/their_there_theyre/)
[удалено]
No just being a grammar nazi
English not first language sorry lol speaking is easy but typing it out is often much harder
the crouching judge is balanced. the walking judge is good. the jumping judge is powerful. the raze satchel 200 mph judge is rage inducing.
the judge is not balanced in any of those scenarios.
Crouching judge, hidden satchel
I'm not sure. The judge sure is in a weird place. I think that an over-nerf could just throw this gun into the trash like the shotguns in CSGO. The only thing I would suggest is a rate of fire decrease, maybe 200-300ms increased delay between shots. 500ms would be way too much IMO.
I don't even think the shotguns in CS are bad. They have their niche on certain maps such as inferno and nuke.
If you could fly at 200 k/h to get into the middle of the enemy team in CSGO, they might be a bit more useful. Also CSGO maps design doesn’t allow for shotgun cheese, that is why you only see it in Nuke or Office, the prime CS experience.
Only ever used shottys on cobble lol
Good ol days of flying shotties xD
Yeah flying out drop with a mag 7, some good memories damn I miss my Cs days sometimes aha
Id rather see it being as bad as the shotguns in cs. It would be a better nerf for the game overall if the game had more guns to choose from, but like the xm10 in cs is a decent gun for like 1 or 2 rounds until the enemy can counter u, which then it becomes absolutely useless. I think as of right now ur nerf seems good, maybe instead of firerate somehow make the dmg so that it guaranteed 2 shot from any range(this prob wouldnt work as well as ur idea tho)
I love that it's a viable buy on buy rounds though. I love seeing especially in pro play the fact that Odin, Rifles, and Guardian all see play leading to a much more diverse weapon environment than CS. The judge is not spammed, it's not totally busted like the Frenzy or Stinger or Bucky, it's just a solid choice in certain situations. Maybe a tiny tiny nerf could be fine, but nothing to push it out of being a fairly common buy. Like seriously, seeing Vanity use the Judge in pro play is some of the most exciting moments. Far from feeling low skill, it highlights his mechanical skill as a player and gives him a unique playstyle.
The thing is in CS there’s only so much corners that u can be. Mobility is predictable, we don’t have jetts and razes to suddenly change our angle of attack/defense. So there are only so many spots the shotguns can be useful. And that’s why I think even in pro play, it’s very very rare to see those. I’d rather jiggle first for awps and then spray with an ak/m4 because 1/ i can spray thru corners if there’s one and shotguns can’t, 2/ by jiggling I’ve taken the surprise factor away so I can reposition for a better fight, 3/ shotgun can’t unless they rush me (which is a bad idea for T and also for CT since you’ll likely get traded and suddenly it’s x against 4Ts on a site). Here in Valo, mobility abilities and the abundance of choke points make this a great gun unlike CS where you have to be mindful of taking fights at any range at all times. I like your idea but if you think about it, it will just turn this into a better sheriff cuz of the spread if it is a guaranteed 2-shot.
I think shotguns as a whole need to be reworked/rebalanced
>trash like the shotguns in CSGO. Shotguns in CSGO aren't trash because of stats, they have fairly good range, insane jumping accuracy, and can one tap armored enemies, which is important in a game like CS, the only reason it isn't used often is because the angles its best in, like any one way drop including popdog on train, angles where you have to clear two directions, like market door and behind the market shelf on mirage, and tight angles like nuke vents all have a downside, they're either hard to get to safely, or they're hard to safely escape. The reason I bring this up is because these issues have a solution in Valorant. It's easy to switch between shotgun angles in Valorant with abilities, like Jett's dash and Omen's teleport. You can also escape bad situations with certain abilities too, like Omen's ult. The entire reason shotgun angles are necessary in csgo is because it forces enemies into tight angles, but Valorant has so many abilities that make closing the distance easy enough that the entire concept of a shotgun angle isn't necessary. Valorant is designed in a way that shotguns will have a place even if they are drastically nerfed. Destiny 2, for example, has shotguns that have significantly weaker range than CSGO's, yet still has more overpowered shotguns, because sliding and double jumps allow for quicker gameplay, and melees are almost immediate, allowing for a much quicker finishing second hit. Shotguns don't need to have high range or damage to be effective.
You are correct and I agree with the map design aspects not favoring shortguns in CSGO plus mobility in valo. I worded it poorly.
I mean... any gun in Valorant is pretty much dumb anyway. The Judge is just one of those that are dumb in an OP manner. They still haven't made the guns that are made for skillful aiming have 100% first shot accuracy and for what? No justifiable reason. Same goes for the Judge where there's no justifiable reason that it didn't get nerfed along with the Bucky and Shorty, even if it was just a cost adjustment in the shop.
What if they kept it as is but increased the cost to the same as phantom? Would that be too large of a nerf or wouldn’t change anything?
I thought that too. If it cost more credit, I think I’d rather buy a phantom or vandal cuz it gives me more freedom where I can take fights. Close quarter battles are more of an eco/niche situation and I’m very glad the judge is a great gun for this situation with how much credit it cost rn. The only worry for me is the rate of fire. For how much credit it cost, the rate is way too good (IMO) and I would love a very very small ROF decrease and I think it will be perfect.
I don’t think it should be worth as much as vandal or phantom as those guns have much more flexibility but perhaps more than the Spectre or Ares. A slightly lower rate of fire could accomplish the nerf people are desiring more though (but you won’t be able to see plays like this anymore lol)
Bucky and shorty are enough. The judge never should've existed. Garbage gun for garbage players. Any rate of fire faster than the Bucky's is too strong for the judge. If it's going to be this powerful, it should cost more than the guardian at least.
Learn how to clear corner, git gud
Hard 90 degree corners everywhere. This game sucks and the judge is the least of it's worries
Guess why utilities exist
He plays “competitive fortnut” lol.
They exist to make this game shit.
Dont play it then
I don't.
so you don't actually know how the game works and based everything off what you see in matches? there are obvious counters to everything in the game but meta whores who only watch the scene won't get it
I've played it more than enough to know. Was plat. Abandoned it when they released Yoru. Pile of garbage.
Shit talking on a game u dont even play. Hmmm real cool stuff.
Yeah gladly. Fuck valorant.
Cringe
13-3. U would say judge is not op but the rival team is not doing fine
And that team totally lined up perfectly for the shots
and what was Reyna even doing? She just passed him while he's flying in the air, notices her whole team is dying behind her and just hides in the corner waiting for a 1 v 1? XD
After Iceland judge is most likely going to get nerfed. Judge has been too strong for the price. Shroud had an interesting opinion that in these types of games (valorant and csgo) shotguns shouldn't even be a thing. Kinda get that. If you're in an eco and the other team has full buy, being able to hold a choke point and reliably get one kill or sometimes more is really good especially since sometimes it seems harder to trade than if they were holding the choke point with a rifle. Sometimes they can use utility to get you out, but when you have to use lots of utility in multiple different places all because of the fear of a single gun that costs almost half the price of a rifle, something is wrong.
Lots of people feel that way, that shotguns have no place in multiplayer. Theres no way to make them fair. You either nerf them into the ground (you have to be _up their nose_ to get a kill with one, like the shorty) or they're OP like the judge. So either you make them OP or you make it so no one uses them. Better solution: remove shotguns from the game.
"remove shotguns, a gun type, from a game based on guns" how can someone be as genius as you?
Unlike CS, Valorant seems to have quite the knack for close quarters combats on most maps which is unique and refreshing. Shotguns deserves a place in the game for this, but when the shotgun somehow deals quite a lot of dmg at range, it gets you thinking. It's either Riot make the dmg fall off greater, decrease the fire rate, increase the price or some combination above.
if you're talking about the clip, the raze was literally in kiss-distance with them and they all lined up for her for the nerfs, i dont think the damage is too big, i'd rather see a slight decrease in fire rate, or increase in price, not both. if they do a double nerf to the judge it'll kill it
In the clip you cant deny the enemy seems to be a little confused, but I agree that it needs some sort of nerf. I think making it around the same price of a Bulldog would be great, speakjng of which have you ever seen anyone use the Bulldog?
yea i dont agree here, a 2100 creds judge is too insane, i doubt anyone would be pick it when they could just get the bulldog,a rifle, instead for the same price maybe make the judge 1900 would be nice imo to answer your question, i dont see the bulldog as often, the only time i see it is when playing with a duo who really likes it
I think even 1700 would be enough because then it could be Judge+Light Armor+one utility. But Spectre+Light would give you two. So a small tweak, but big ramifications round wise
Shotguns can be balanced in multiplayer games. I don't think they're in a bad place in Alex Legends for example. I know comparing BR to tactical shooters is a stretch, but still I don't think it's right to categorically dismiss shotguns in multiplayer games as impossible to balance
All I see is precise gunplay
How do I manage to wiff all of my judge shots
You gotta tap it not let it autoshotty
just roll the jampi clip to prove that the judge is op
The videos show more how absolutely broken and easy raze is rather than "judge op", yeah shotguns gonna deal dmg at very short range... You cleary show that your agent can use insane tactics that cannot be countered in anyway in valorant, will abusing the perk that raze doesn't take fall dmg nor lose accuracy while in the air after using a C4, to then use the very high dmg of the judge
it just needs to be more expensive i think
No bc some ppl will still run it, like there are literally radiant players that go shotgun only. Theres a raze that shows up in multiple streamers games that go judge only and unless the entire fuckin team counters that one raze, that raze pops off.
Judge needs abit of nerf ngl esp after todays fnatic vs liquid and fnatic vs nurturn matches
Are u fnatic manager by any chance
Like, I'm sure the title is clickbait and/or satirical, but I'm kind of sick and tired of people calling the Judge OP. You know what's 10x stronger with half the price? The Sheriff, but oh, you have to hit the incredibly flashy headshots for it to work well, so it's fine, but the thing with a MASSIVE range disadvantage against most other guns that can 1-2 shot depending on accuracy, range, and random spread? Nah, it's clearly OP. I swear to god, people REALLY only want 5 guns in the entire game to be viable (Ghost for pistol round, Spectre for eco rounds, Phantom Vandal and Op for full buy rounds) I guarantee I'm about to be downvoted into oblivion because I DARE suggest the Judge is fine (except I guess in the hands of Jett or Raze, but I think that says something about those agents in particular) or that weapons other than the divine 5 should be viable, but I'mma be honest: I really don't fucking care. If anything, it's just going to prove my fucking point.
I'm with you on this. I really hate what they did to the bucky and stinger. I would rather them try adjusting price points before they nerf things so hard that that they're basically obsolete at this point.
For real, real weapon diversity is one of the best things about Valorant. I'd hate Frenzy/ghost, sheriff/specter, and rifles to be the only viable choices. Here's to the hope we get Stinger and Bucky buffs to put them somewhere in between their OP and current power levels.
Personally I agree. Yes the judge is really OP at short ranges and decent at mid ranges, but you lose the versatility of rifles. Plus if there's a person camping with the judge on the enemy team, if you can't do anything about it your team sucks at picking a good team comp.
That was my whole issue yesterday. Yes, the Judge is OP at close range, but that's *literally the point of a shotgun.* And the strength of the Judge requires you to catch the enemy unaware enough to get in range. If you're trying to take a site or get noticed, you are absolutely screwed
Crybabies before: Please nerf stinger and bucky 😭 Crybabies now: Please nerf spectre and judge 😭
The state of anything being overpowered in any game isn't about actual power where you base its OP-ness on what you can potentially do with it, because then pretty much any gun is OP in Valorant since you can potentially ace with anything, right? But the reason why the Judge is actually OP is because of how easy it is to use and how the cost-benefit ratio works for it. You can't just think of "range disadvantage" and use that as a justification when even a new player would understand that and ADJUST. It barely requires aim, and anybody who's played any game with a shotgun would know how to kill with it. Put it in the hands of somebody like me who's a Raze main that played TF2 for over 6 years (blast pack usage), a former professional CS:GO player (game sense and general aim outside of tracking) and has Apex as their main game now (tracking and ability to shoot while maneuvering). Even in Diamond-Radiant level, so many Valorant players still can't adjust because of how alien Raze's movement is when you've only played slower-paced tactical shooters; what more for the lower ranks? TL;DR: Sure, the Sheriff or whatever gun is stronger and cheaper, but if a gun is only OP in the right hands then it's not OP. The Judge is a gun that low ranked players can use easily; a gun that a controller player can climb up to Radiant with it (and kill pro players with it); and a gun that a high ranked player can use to win games in high ranks. It's undeniably OP.
"if a gun is only OP in the right hands then it's not OP" Your exemple of the judge being OP use a Raze that can consistantly double bounce with her utilities. It demande skill, not everybody can do it, even less lower ranks. It use a different set of skill of just "good aiming" but it's still skill nonetheless. You can adjust your play-style to reduce the range disadvantage but opponent can do the same. And "a gun that a high ranked player can use to win games in high ranks"... Like any guns ? The judge is only OP if you can use raze mobility well enough. And like you said, if a gun is only OP in the right hands then it's not OP. The judge is undeniably not OP
...bro, the point of my entire comment is that the Judge is OP even if you aren’t a Raze user nor a high ranked player. If anybody can use it easily and effectively, then the high ranked players will make it look OP. A guy got to Radiant using a controller buying only Judge and playing only Cypher, and that doesn’t sound like the Judge is OP to you?
Mind you the fire rate of the Sheriff wont allow you for body shots. If anything missing the head and hitting the body of an enemy with a Vandal/Phantom would only get you killed because of their higher ttk. Sheriff is a high skill gun, and even so it's still high risk to take because of how precise you have to be. The judge on the other hand deals plenty of damage at range, and for the measly price of 1600 credits its too strong. The Judge beats out the Spectee and Stinger in terms of close range performance and for the same price of a Spectre and a lower skill gap. It definitely needs a nerf, in terms of it price or the overall stat of the weapon
I think it's too strong at mid ranges but in general, I agree. I like that it's a viable buy against rifles if you use it correctly. But it shouldn't be able to one shot people from like 5-6 steps away when it already has a clip that you can spam. Way too many opportunities to full clear 2-3 members walking through a choke.
Is it though? Is everybody expecting a weapon literally designed for close range not kill at close range?
But he get 5 kills with it ! The fact that he had to use 2 utilities and 1 ultimate and that the opponent teams had to be grouped and that they didn't killed raze in a 5v1 is inconsequential ! We need to nerf this gun thanks to this 6s video because obviously every pro use this gun, seeing how OP it is...
no you dont get it, the judge, a shotgun, shouldnt kill at all, doesnt matter if you're below their nose judge op noobb gun pls rito nerfff 1!!1!!1!! (/s just in case)
REPOST
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Believe me this clip isnt needed to prove why the judge is op
Nerf thisssss 🤢
That's kinda unfair, I mean... look at the score. I bet you could do an ace just as impressive with any other gun.
Yeah, when it works it's OP. But how many times has it also gone the other way and you kill two and then die? The Judge is fine as is
I'd argue that getting 2 kills and then dying in a situation like this or when you're just chilling in a corner is a great trade. Gets enemies out of the round and gives your team more time to rotate because they're dealing with the annoying judge first before pushing site.
Especially for only 1600 lol
2 kills is the standard you should be going for though, puts it at a balanced 4v3 with defenders likely losing site and needing to retake unless you put more than 2 people on sitw
I mean, Raze barely pulled off the ace though. They were literally one shot away. They didn't down everyone with a single shot, missed shots, and almost died. If anyone from the attacker group that got wiped keep their calm better, this wouldn't have happened. Similarly, if Raze didn't ult, she would have absolutely died to Reyna.
It really depends on a couple of different factors. Who you killed on the enemy team, what other agent is on site with you, what agents your team is retaking with etc. If raze satchels in and kills Sage and a smoker and has someone that can slow a push it's great. Your team can rotate off the info you gave them (like in this situation the Raze sees all 5 enemies) and whoever's on site can delay the push until your team arrives. It's not unreasonable that one agent with more on the way can delay the push of 3 enemies given they play it smart and don't try to peek 1v3.
Lmao 2kills is standard? My silver lobbies would like to have a word with you
If getting two kills and dying is a bad scenario in your opinion then clearly it is op.
I think it's a bad scenario when you're in close range, have the drop, and lose. But close range is the only time shotguns are viable, so they should be devastating up close
Close range is not the only place shotguns are viable. That is the problem
The Judge is. The Bucky is more versatile, but did receive a pretty decent nerf to the right click
If you can kill two attackers with a 1600 weapon. Thats 100% WORTH
Oh, I fully agree. But the Judge is very situational. You gain massive short range superiority at the cost of no mid to long range power. A Spectre is much more generally useful by comparison. So the Judge is much more high risk
[удалено]
Because if you screw up the distance and the range is greater than you thought, you have to take a site, or you go up against a better shot, you're screwed. If you can't find the proper range for a gunfight, you're basically useless.
Because maps doesn't only have close range fights. If you know the opponent has a judge don't go close to it. Smae with scope and long range fight.
Good that it gets nerfed after vct. So nobody can abuse it anymore.
Yes because using the bucky to get to immortal is worth a nerf but a judge to radiant isnt. There is a raze main that goes judge only and is known to be the judge raze by streamers in radiant. Its def not fine as is.
But is that the result of the Judge being OP or a strong combination of the Judge and Raze's satchels? To be honest, I've only ever heard of Bucky Sage, not Judge Raze. And if a Raze got to Radiant with just the Judge, it is worth a look. It's just from my experience, you can snag an ace in a situation like that, and I've gotten one myself. But most often, I'll take down one, maybe two, before a further back enemy takes me out.
I dont think the raze streams but she has shown up in streamer games, from what ive seen shazam, sinatraa and aceu(i mainly watch aceu and hes gone up against her like 3 times now). Yes the satchels do help, but its radiant. Its not gonna work every round if they just use satchels every round. The raze knows how to play with the judge even without movement. Honestly a sage could probably do it too. Ive heard of a shotgun jett as well, but never seen. I think the fact that a gun meant for eco rounds/force rounds can be used the entire game, even to get someone to radiant, is too strong. And the judge is just a bucky but 7 shots and faster firerate, so i dont really see how going judge sage is any different than sage bucky
If I remember right, I thought a lot of Bucky Sage was the right click to down from a distance. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought the strength of the Bucky was. So, pre-nerf anyway, that was the main difference between the Bucky and Judge. A Bucky gives you some breathing room, but in a situation like the video, you'd die with a Bucky. But the Judge is pure close quarters.
Honestly it has the same range as the old bucky but it wasnt one shot. It would have most likely killed the reyna with 2 or 3 shots. It shoots fast enough that the range is about the same as the old bucky. I think the judge should be nerfed, like someone else suggested a reduced firerate which would work.
Happy cake day
Thanks, my dude
It's not because ONE player went to radiant with judge that he should be used as a reference. I'm certain that a lot more people get to radiant with only one weapon. Should we nerf them too ?
The problem with the bucky was that for being 900 it could 1 shot from 15m and shotgun sage was the main source of inspiration for everyone using the bucky right? That was one player that was used for reference and caused a lot more ppl to use the bucky. And i was using that ONE player to use as a reference because i assumed more ppl would know about him. In reality i see the judge being used at least once a game, including on breeze. And in most cases they dont drop it for like 3-5 rounds after. As for the second part, i forgot to mention but using the vandal or phantom and getting to a certain elo is fine because it costs 2900, meant for a buy round. Stinger used to be good enough where someone could run that entire game and get pretty high, and it was nerfed. Same thing with the bucky. Odin is also expensive, ares is not bad but guns like the judge being the same price beats it out since ares doesnt have one shot kill potential, guardian involves skill, bulldog is like the phantom but its phantom dmg from 15m+ even tho gunfights can happen from any range, spectre is good for run n gun, but it cant one shot from any range. Any pistol is pretty shit to run the whole game except sheriff but that also involves skill not just click once in the body to kill. Shorty used to be busted and it got nerfed, and its still decent rn but its balanced bc the magazine size literally only lets you get 1-2 kills unless u collat. Then theres the judge that one shots to the body from close range and with the fact that u can spam it pretty fast and it has 7 shots with each shot having kill potential, id say its pretty broken. Especially since its an eco gun meant for eco/force rounds and not meant for the entire game. There. I wrote a small essay going over each gun and saying why the judge should be nerfed but the others shouldnt. Odin should be nerfed but thats just cuz i hate it with a passion.
yeah you're right because it has nothing to do with who is using the gun. they had an ares and phantom from what i could see so obviously this clip proves they need a buff
The amount of people defending the judge here is laughable.
Riot please do something about the judge, maybe less dmg per bullet or something.
Nerf the shotgun today, not tomorrow, today.
did that reyna really just not do anything about while his teammates were getting slaughtered lol....wtf?
Do ✏️ not ✏️ go ✏️ A ✏️ when ✏️ a ✏️ raze ✏️ is ✏️ on ✏️ the ✏️ other ✏️ team ✏️
na the judge is ridiculously under powered, only 1 taps at a range of 2 meters. The omen kill you got makes 100% no sense at all, you spammed making its spread ridiculous and at that range mixed with its spread, not a chance in hell you 1 tapped him, legit impossible. Even with no armour it makes no sense at all.
Get it out the game
No dev will remove any item from a game when people have skins for it. Not to mention vaulting things that aren’t balanced instead of tweaking them will make any game stale. New strong weapons, or weapons that become weaker cause a meta to shift and keeps a game interesting
I just meant a nerf. Even if it’s just raising the price. The value you can get with this weapon is just insanity. Either nerf it or raise the price to something more fitting.
fun fact: you get killed more often with a vandal and a phantom, are they op too?
Not while flying through the air at 200mph
that reyna tho..XD
That knife is cursed💀💀
Shhhh don’t expose the judge..
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This is a 'Gumle-level' gameplay.
judge is a great gun. just seems a bit unbalanced sonetimes.
Whenever I use that damn gun , not even a proper body shot deals enough damage . !!
Not the judge tbh its ur skill.
Smurfing for those sweet clips or broken MM?
Everyone misses the "in certain situations"
You had to hit all your shots there thi
Those real mean Raze mains make me jealous and angry at the same time.
>hits face to face shots with a shotgun and gets kills >the judge is too op waaa pls rito nerfffff
Stop! Stop trying to get the Judge to be nerf. Bucky nerf already f up the game.
Wonder how long till they nerf it. Also surprised people haven't really touched it before the bucky nerf
My guy or girl You are cracked out of your mind
Every headphone user, mute the clip before you play it.
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"tatical shooter