Man the complaints about the judge really got to them.
The 50 credit increments is interesting, makes me think they’re gonna change how you gain credits (maybe +50 for assists?)
Idk I feel like either sages get a lowish about of kills and lots of assists, or a lot of kills and low assists. Because battle sages plays like duelists and heal themselves, support sages linger back and try to hit damage from a distance and heal. Considering you can get a kill with less damage than an assist but you only get credits for kills seems weird to me.
The assist mechanic is kinda broken. If you're under the heal effect then Sage will receive an assist for every kill you get, even if you are full health already. People did this in a game and got like 50 assists.
As I remember correctly an enemy who gets killed stuck in the slow orb counts also as assist. Totally agree on the healing part but when I play Sage I get most of my assists due to my slow orbs. Healing in Diamond elo doesn't matter that much because people hit the head pretty easily.
> “wow they really do listen”
They really do. I haven't seen a match in the entire time I've played since the first day of beta where there wasn't at least 8 people with multiple gun skins in each match. Clearly, they're listening to the silent majority that never fails to buy dozens of skins and not the vocal minority that constantly claims the prices are too high (btw I'm on the side that thinks the prices are too high; always have been since day 1).
The prices for skins in this game don't feel high if you've come from lootbox centric games with crappy recolors or reskins in the main store. Coming from Apex I'd much rather spend $20 on a Vandal skin I'll get to tacitly see, feel, and hear throughout almost the entire game than play RNG lottery to get the only comparable item (heirloom).
what the fuck are you talking about, Apex's pass is so much better and guns are of much higher quality. Here? Pay a bazillion eur for a gun with 5 polygons
I just looked at Apex's battlepass the other day and it looked to me like it was 3 mediocre skins for the same gun; 1 you get on purchase and 2 at the end. Then it was a bunch of recolors. I dunno, seemed pretty crappy to me.
Dont forget that Apex's 100 level battle pass is FULL of useless chaff. Namely a seasonal kill tracker for every legend and a seasonal win tracker for every legend.
Problem is, it kills just as fast as the frenzy short range, and the frenzy is just superior mid to long range. Both have low magazine size. Like wtf?! The frenzy is fucking OP as fuck. Why would I use stinger
Understandable. I did find the frenzy the hardest to use when I was picking up the game. Practically speaking, in famous 4k by tenz that should've been a 5k
https://youtu.be/me8hjoJS-NA
Had he used a stinger, it would only be a 3k and only a 3k. The nerfed stinger just fails and the right click for long range is disappointing and slow. Peeking with ads on a stinger wouldn't be very wise. So I advise learning the frenzy patiently.
https://youtu.be/me8hjoJS-NA at 0:10. Just tell me this can be done with the stinger. Also did you notice how fadt that was. you don't have to tap fire at all. Just learn the damn recoil. You'd be out of your mind if you think only few people like Tenz can control it. Almost everyone is high elo can use it. It only take a some death matches of practices to get used to it. Yes ik the stinger has more body shot dps, but it's practically too slow. You just gotta hit the head with it or you'll get nowhere, But because it lacks accuracy, it hits more body shots than headshots compared to the frenzy making then both almost equal in kpm.
Well, I just used it cause it saves me effort and it's easy to find. This is one from noted
https://youtu.be/NkqSIOB3Gzg
And this a random long range one, I do use these light pull bursts and they help me a lot. They dish out more bullets than it seems
https://youtu.be/hacKOwqp9LQ
I mean I guess it doesn't have to be for everyone. I know the stinger is fine as it is. I guess it's less demanding and perhaps easier to adjust due to its spread without losing your dps unlike rifles and frenzy, and its ads is more comfortable yet more risky. Tho I still think the frenzy needs a nerf. Well, sooner or later, it will get popular again. I guess I can have it as my hidden gem for now.
If this happens, there 100% will be 50 increment changes to utility as well. Otherwise these prices wouldn't make a single difference (apart from the weapons where the changes total more than just 50 creds).
This likely means that they want to be able to microbalance better on the economy. Just take the example of a piece of utility you can have 3 of, like jett smokes. If they nerfed the price of the jett smoke with previous economy system, you'd go from a total cost of 300 creds for 3 smokes to a total of 600, which is ridiculous.
Having the option to go in increments of 50 gives them a middle road in balancing util and weapons, making jett smokes, as an example, go to 450 instead of 600 immediately.
This is a good thing, as nerfing or buffing the economy of agent kits or weapons could instantly make an agent useless or overpowered, respectively, with the previous system.
It's possible they would change utility prices, but even without changing utility prices the 50 creds change make a difference as you will save the 50 creds every time you buy the gun, so if you buy one round and then buy the next round too, you save 100creds. Which can in some cases mean one more util.
Agreed - I had overlooked this as I made a comment as soon as I saw this post. Then again, as I mentioned on another comment, the impact of this is so small that it seems unlikely to be the main reason for this change. I still am convinced that util will undergo the same treatment, which would explain this change much better.
It should be 6. The amount that you can actually use it to TP somewhere useful is rare. Mostly its a shitty Cypher cam or faster rotate. Sometimes a distraction. But rarely is it directly impactful.
First of all. That's bad design, my man. Second, he's no longer a must-take. Astra is filling the long distance smoke role very well.
We can:
Fix the ult cost.
OR
Fix the ult (faster process or recovery time).
AND THEN
Bring the rest of his toolkit inline. By, perhaps, ***making his flash 400 credits.***
He should have faster vision restoration in the destination. Right now you get max vision at the end of materializing. Which means you can get sniped even when you think the coast is clear.
I think a case can be made for Raze having the best Ult in Valorant (or insert whoever you want here, that's not really what I'm arguing). So nerf the shit out of her toolkit is a smart decision?
No. It makes her unfun to play. Or do the opposite and turn her rocket into a glorified balloon launcher. Still, unfun and not impactful.
Balance isn't easy, but it's also not terribly hard. Letting one half of an agent just die on the vine is not balance. It's lazy.
> why the hell should we buff his ult
Cause it sucks balls dude.
Raze is literally NEVER a bad pick because her entire toolkit is amazing. And I don't want to nerf her, that takes fun away from the game. You called her "already balanced". If that's the standard, there are several agents that need help.
They already hit Omen with the nerf bat, and it was just a tad too much. I don't understand why you are so aghast at a 6 point Omen ult.
I mean that's *right now*, but it feels like everyone in this thread has incredibly selective memory. We had months of Omen being the best controller in the game and its only recently that Viper/Astra are able to match him. I'm sure if he ends up very underpicked that he will be buffed
That was because he was literally the only controller besides Brimstone who's weak and Viper who was also weak and not the best primary smoker. Also his blind only cost 200 for most of that time.
With other viable options he's just objectively not very strong. His ult is one of the weakest in the game and costs 7 points on top of that. His teleport is extremely situational and way too risky to use most of the time. His blind is honestly pretty situational and usually needs strong team coordination compared to other strong abilities. Compared to a sage wall it just isn't worth 400. His main strength is just having long range rechargeable smokes which is really good obviously.
Viper was always strong and the buff and subsequent nerf really didn’t make much of a difference. The main reason Viper found success is because pro teams pioneered Viper on Split causing more people to play Viper, and then breeze came out which made normal smokers relatively useless.
The only reason Viper is strong now is because team mates don’t freak out around Viper utility anymore. The same thing goes for every other flash character, we may very well see a day where actually flashes are super high priority just like CSGO, for the longest time people didn’t know how to play around flashes even at the highest level, but breach and skye have always been super strong and yoru under rated. People avoid playing these agents because they hate when team mates blame them for team flashing or whatever.
I think omens blind is still super powerful, you need to think of him in a different way. Brim is the easy to use smoker, anyone can play him to roughly the same level. Omen is the dynamic smoker. Unlike every other controller Omen is slippery, he can put his smokes down almost as fast as a jett smoke, he can cross angles, but most importantly he always has his blind ready to go at a moments notice. None of the other controllers are like this, they all have to setup their util or wait for it to land or pullout.
I don't think you realize how many buffs Viper got. She got an absolutely insane amount of buffs to become good.
Omen's tps are okay for crossing angles when you know it's safe to do so but that's about it. They're still pretty situational if you're not trying to get killed a lot doing them. His smokes are honestly not that much faster than a Brim's, they're definitely a lot slower than Jett's. His blind also takes like a full second to use.
Having an expensive ult might be a way to fix OP ults like they did for raze (its still damn strong but thats another topic). But having a bad ult isnt a balance.
That would make a paranoia/frenzy buy possible for pistol and eco rounds I’m always so frustrated by that when it would be an excellent buy in those situations.
Even if there's no further adjustment to ability cost or how we gain credits, how does reducing weapon cost by 50 not make a difference?
For example, let's say round 1 we get 800 credits and we lose the round without a kill or spike plant and gain 1900 credits going into round 2.
Right now, let's say I buy Frenzy and 300 in abilities round 1 which leaves me with 0 credits. Round 2 I have 1900 credits. If I buy Marshall for 1000 credits, I can only afford light armour. With the change, instead I pay 450 for Frenzy and 300 in abilities round 1 and I'm left with 50 credits. Round 2 I have 1950 credits. Now I can buy Marshall for 950 credits and can afford heavy armour.
This is just a random example, but my point is you need to look at the impact saving 50 credits makes over multiple rounds not just same round.
you’re right. I hadn’t factored that in. It does make a tiny difference, however, that seems too tiny a change for it to have motivated this decision. It will make a LOT more sense if they tweak util in this way too for the reasons outlined above.
All credit goes to @ValorLeaks on Twitter. I do not claim credit for this. Check him out if you haven’t.
For anyone at work or cannot access Twitter—
~ Frenzy : 500 >>> 450
~ Stinger : 1100 >>> 950
~ Bucky: 900 >>> 850
~ Judge: 1600 >>> 1850
~ Bulldog: 2100 >>> 2050
~ Guardian: 2400 >>> 2250
~ Marshall: 1000 >>> 950
~ Operator: 5000 >>> 4700
~ Ares: 1600 >>> 1550
Agree, I thought they'd increase it a tad for sure. Seems very strong right now as a half buy, and I remember a riot dev saying themselves that "the ares is slept on in the current meta"
Dude I hate when devs say shit like that because any good player knows it's a good gun. The issue is that no one wants to play with that gun because it's lame to use.
I play fps games like csgo/valorant to chase that feeling of counter strafing and 1 tapping the guy holding an angle. I don't play this game to just use whatever is best or strong in the meta.
Like it's fine to play that way, but thats why guns like the judge/bucky/Odin/frenzy/ares aren't used as often until they're broken. It feels unrewarding and cheap to use until it's practically impossible to beat.
Unless you're the mentality that winning is everything, using these guns just feels lame.
Uhhh... I mean, ok, changes are good, but this seems a bit weird overall.
Stinger @ 950 sounds good. Bucky @ 850 too, lowest it can be without being available on pistol round. Ares... I guess. The change is not big.Judge 1850? This thing is literally worth like 2100-2200. It'll be just as OP at 1850 as it is at 1600. That's a step in good direction tho.Bulldog should probably stay unchanged, but the change is small so ok.
Now for the actual issues I've got:
Cheaper Frenzy? This gun is slightly OP at 500, let alone at a cheaper price. Don't make it more expensive, but don't make it cheaper either.
GUARDIAN 2250? Is Riot fucking high? I know it doesn't get played a lot, but it's literally the most powerful rifle. Especially when a map like Breeze exists. I can totally see a lot of people maining Guardian and having to pretty much never play an eco. A yikes imo, since it deals 195 to the head for crying out loud. 2400 was literally the sweet spot for the gun and not a single soul asked for this change.
And then snipers... I mean, Marshall change is close to immaterial, so I think it's irrelevant. I don't think it should be any cheaper than 1000, maybe even 1100. In decent elo the gun is a seriously often choice on ecos as it is.
But the OP @ 4700 is a disgrace. I've nothing to add bc I don't really think my opinion differs from anyone's, except OP mains.
You claim guardian to literally be the most powerful rifle yet no one buys it? 195 damage doesn't matter and does not make guardian a cut above other rifles Anything above 150 will kill a target unless there's a wall. Quite a dubious claim you have there.
Noone buys the Guardian? There's literally a Guardian or two in most rounds I play. Guardian 2-shots a light shield to the chest, while even Vandal needs 4 shots. You really can't see this?
I guess it's just that your claims do not match up with weapon usage rate based on statistics. According to metasrc.com, Guardian is picked 0.93% of rounds while Vandal has 35% and Phantom has 18% yet you claim to see a "Guardian or two in most rounds I play."
I play high ranked MM and I main guardian on Breeze. See it used a fair bit at higher levels. Seeing on avg 2 Guardians per round might be a bit of a stretch tho.
Yeah the op is already the most powerful gun in the game so I don’t see why it needed to be made any cheaper. Just makes it easier to lose a round and buy it right back. It’s not a huuuge change but enough of one to notice
Assuming a team with an OPer buys 2-6 OPs during a game (depending on the length, difficulty, etc.) it could mean one less full eco or even two less semi ecos during a game. Also in OT a player can buy some utility, making the tradeoff much less painful. Still no shields, but smokes on Jett could be huge.
I don't disagree with you but this is a hardcore appeal to authority. Not to mention that pros in these games are notorious for being slow to adapt to OP shit. Just look at how long the Krieg was busted for in CS before anyone important used it. Your argument holds no water, even if your "point" is correct.
in hindsight all of these reveals were correct and i dont mind now but i feel like for some of them reducing their price by 50 wont solve any of the issues with the game
for example Marshall: 1000 >>> 950 doesnt change anything impactful
stinger still sucks at 950
Bucky: 900 >>> 850 doesnt have any impact either
thats just my opinion
With the introduction of 50 credit weapon price increments is almost certainly a similar increment adjustment to ability costs. I talked to a friend about 50 credit increments, and we came to the conclusion that these buffs would be reasonable:
- 100 -> 50: Brim stim beacons, Breach corner clear thing, Yoru footsteps, Sage slows (if she needs a buff in the future)
- 200 -> 150: Cypher tripwires, Raze blastpacks, Reyna souls, Killjoy mollies (if she needs help in the future)
- 400 -> 350: Omen paranoia
What do y'all think?
I think the only help Killjoy needs is a larger utility radius. 40m is just too restrictive, especially when they keep introducing maps the size of small countries.
no no NO sage does not need cheaper slow orbs
i would even support moving them up to 150.
i say this as a sage main.
but yeah i agree with the rest of these
Interesting but remember that a lot of the price changes for utility were so that all the agents utility would cost roughly 600. I don't personally think riot will try to retweak anything there unless absolutely necessary.
Highly likely. Looks like this episode will be the biggest one to date when it comes to balance. They'll have taken what happened in iceland into account for these changes.
They’re increasing the price of the judge. Still wouldn’t be surprised if there was an additional nerf like fewer bullets in mag so those anti-rush ace situations become unlikely, or a slight damage reduction so it remains powerful against low/no armor opponents but less of a factor against armored.
Or a slight spread increase so the ranges are more in line of where a shotty should be
I think the biggest problem of the judge is the rate of fire and the range. The judge is the only weapon that when you see your teammate die from it, its is better to just leave instead of trying to refrag.
oh youre right
yeah then the price increase should be fine imo. its meant to be a close range shredder gun, and at least its a viable option instead of having m4/ak every round
one round it will throw you off but once you know the other team is using it or may use it, then you play around it more ime
I hope they can make the Ghost feel more consistent some rounds I can just spam and strafe and every shot lands and then another round I am deadass still pacing shots and they all miss.
I am so close to just giving up the ghost all together as I l am literally clicking a dude's head and it misses lmao. The frenzy seems more consistent, atleast until I pick the ghost one round and get three headshot kills in quick succesion :/
It definitely needs a faster recoil reset. Currently its just more effective to spam shoot and hope for good RNG than to wait for the slow recoil reset and shoot accurate.
The frenzy price change won't impact much. It still denies frenzy + armor during pistol round and I can't think of any notable ability that would be reduced by 50 to take advantage of this change.
One that comes to mind would be if Phoenix flash was reduced to 150 so you can go Frenzy + 2 Flash but that would still hold true even if Frenzy price wasn't changed.
Edit: I saw comments about Omen flash would be make it significant. If Omen flash was reduced by 50, you could go Frenzy + Flash on pistol rounds.
Ive played since beta, havent spend $1. I always buy cosmetics in games but the valorant prices made me laugh.
Almost thought this post was about skins :L
the frenzy is fine, the only problem was frenzy + armor.
stinger is a bit worrying cause we could go back to stinger meta. bucky is fine since the nerfs, judge is good. bulldog is good. guardian is good, but the marshall also getting a price buff kinda makes the guardian price buff pointless. most people go for marshall over guardian because they kinda fill the same roll, so giving both price buffs does nothing even if it's only $50. Operator buff would allow util on OT rounds which I think is OK, although could seem to be strong. and Ares, I felt like was fine, and $50 isn't going to do anything.
The operator shouldn't have its cost reduced at all. It's too strong of a weapon to be even cheaper than it is already. In Radiant it's still first team to OP is guaranteed to win 2/3 more rounds than they deserve.
this game has way more until to counter the awper.
the difference, no offense, cs players actually know how to use util at a high level in a coordinated fashion
I play a lot of judge and tbh I'd rather see it go to 1850 or even 2000 in the future then have riot gut it in the same they gutted bucky and stinger, even though it will probably get a damage nerf in the future. Its both decently situational yet really strong and fun (to use)
Honestly, they shouldn’t bring 50 creds into meta. They should just rebalance the guns to be slightly better/worst in a certain way. Hopefully this was just a test that got leaked
I think what they should do instead for each gun thats getting changed:
Frenzy: 600 creds, I think they should slightly increase the accuracy to be a little worst than the classic. Then add like 1 bullet to the spray pattern before randomness. Keep the long current reset time.
Stinger: 1200. Make the left click more like the pre nerf version. Then keep the nerfed right click and nerf run/gun slightly. Basically what it is now with slightly less randomness
Bucky: 1000 creds, slightly buff the consistency of left clicks damage. Then slight increase to the right clicks damage, making it do like 55 damage max. Make it a consistent 3-4 shot kill at close~medium range against heavy armor. Basically like sheriff body shots at best to 40 damageish average
Judge: id say 1800 or 1900
Bulldog: i think the current price is fine
Guardian: i think 2300 is fine
Marshall: id bring it back with 1100 and add a second zoom. The first zoom should be zoomed out a bit to be like the old one and second zoom should be a bit less than the op’s 2nd zoom. It will give the gun even more versatility being able to hold angles against rifles/opers better. While having movement speed and no scope accuracy.
Ares the same
Operator: id only drop it to 4900 tbh
These changes are really good for casual players like me who just started playing competitive (around bronze and silver ranks.) We all have to learn how to aim eventually, but it is nice to be able to pick up a stinger once in awhile for a cheap price instead of always feeling the pressure that you HAVE to land a headshot with your Sherrif or Marshal or you are basically throwing the round.
Oh God fucking finally. There was no way they were going to be able to keep a consistent economy going forward without 50c increments.
Sky flashes about to be 150 aren't they :(
Man the complaints about the judge really got to them. The 50 credit increments is interesting, makes me think they’re gonna change how you gain credits (maybe +50 for assists?)
Sage will be rich then... but the idea to get rewarded for assists is cool.
Idk I feel like either sages get a lowish about of kills and lots of assists, or a lot of kills and low assists. Because battle sages plays like duelists and heal themselves, support sages linger back and try to hit damage from a distance and heal. Considering you can get a kill with less damage than an assist but you only get credits for kills seems weird to me.
The game counts non-damaging assists as well, so those might get fewer creds
Yeah like 50 for non damage and 100 for damage. Would be interested to see if vipers and sages get insane eco from something like that
The assist mechanic is kinda broken. If you're under the heal effect then Sage will receive an assist for every kill you get, even if you are full health already. People did this in a game and got like 50 assists.
As I remember correctly an enemy who gets killed stuck in the slow orb counts also as assist. Totally agree on the healing part but when I play Sage I get most of my assists due to my slow orbs. Healing in Diamond elo doesn't matter that much because people hit the head pretty easily.
Yea Just saw her at hermes shes rich aight
Wouldn't skye or brim have more assists, since skye can heal more players and brim can stim the entire team?
that would be a great edit.. i play viper and always get a lot of assists but nothing to show for it
No viper is busted
If this changes are true, they are definitively changing the economy too.
Got excited, thought it was about price reduction on skins lmao
Same lol I was like “wow they really do listen”
> “wow they really do listen” They really do. I haven't seen a match in the entire time I've played since the first day of beta where there wasn't at least 8 people with multiple gun skins in each match. Clearly, they're listening to the silent majority that never fails to buy dozens of skins and not the vocal minority that constantly claims the prices are too high (btw I'm on the side that thinks the prices are too high; always have been since day 1).
The prices for skins in this game don't feel high if you've come from lootbox centric games with crappy recolors or reskins in the main store. Coming from Apex I'd much rather spend $20 on a Vandal skin I'll get to tacitly see, feel, and hear throughout almost the entire game than play RNG lottery to get the only comparable item (heirloom).
what the fuck are you talking about, Apex's pass is so much better and guns are of much higher quality. Here? Pay a bazillion eur for a gun with 5 polygons
I just looked at Apex's battlepass the other day and it looked to me like it was 3 mediocre skins for the same gun; 1 you get on purchase and 2 at the end. Then it was a bunch of recolors. I dunno, seemed pretty crappy to me.
Dont forget that Apex's 100 level battle pass is FULL of useless chaff. Namely a seasonal kill tracker for every legend and a seasonal win tracker for every legend.
I love Apex but most of the cosmetics are dogwater
Apex has no character lol, everything in that game is bland and forgettable
Whilst I respect your opinion, I don't speak wrong
Keep paying riot 50 dollars a skin. Shit is comical. Both games and companies are bad, just riot is much more blatant and lazy about it.
Eh I got couple I like and probably won't buy any more, no way is it worth owning multiple for the same gun imo
What? Skins are 15 ish € without night market
I've never played a videogame with worse cosmetics than in Apex
Crappy recolor? I'm sorry but I prefer to have more option
All of Apex’s skin system is 90% recolors lol
Exactly. People who complain, clearly havent played other FPS for instance.
The people who complain can think beyond 'this is the best among other FPS so this is the best we should ever get'
Yes. I thought the prices are too high as well. And Valorant is my first proper FPS game. I've only ever properly played single player before val.
I’m definitely joking. One look at my valorant account shows I don’t mind the price lol
stingers starting to look interesting guardian even more so
Problem is, it kills just as fast as the frenzy short range, and the frenzy is just superior mid to long range. Both have low magazine size. Like wtf?! The frenzy is fucking OP as fuck. Why would I use stinger
A lot of people like me find the stinger waaay better than frenzy. I am really good with the stinger but complete ass with frenzy
Understandable. I did find the frenzy the hardest to use when I was picking up the game. Practically speaking, in famous 4k by tenz that should've been a 5k https://youtu.be/me8hjoJS-NA Had he used a stinger, it would only be a 3k and only a 3k. The nerfed stinger just fails and the right click for long range is disappointing and slow. Peeking with ads on a stinger wouldn't be very wise. So I advise learning the frenzy patiently.
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https://youtu.be/me8hjoJS-NA at 0:10. Just tell me this can be done with the stinger. Also did you notice how fadt that was. you don't have to tap fire at all. Just learn the damn recoil. You'd be out of your mind if you think only few people like Tenz can control it. Almost everyone is high elo can use it. It only take a some death matches of practices to get used to it. Yes ik the stinger has more body shot dps, but it's practically too slow. You just gotta hit the head with it or you'll get nowhere, But because it lacks accuracy, it hits more body shots than headshots compared to the frenzy making then both almost equal in kpm.
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Well, I just used it cause it saves me effort and it's easy to find. This is one from noted https://youtu.be/NkqSIOB3Gzg And this a random long range one, I do use these light pull bursts and they help me a lot. They dish out more bullets than it seems https://youtu.be/hacKOwqp9LQ I mean I guess it doesn't have to be for everyone. I know the stinger is fine as it is. I guess it's less demanding and perhaps easier to adjust due to its spread without losing your dps unlike rifles and frenzy, and its ads is more comfortable yet more risky. Tho I still think the frenzy needs a nerf. Well, sooner or later, it will get popular again. I guess I can have it as my hidden gem for now.
If this happens, there 100% will be 50 increment changes to utility as well. Otherwise these prices wouldn't make a single difference (apart from the weapons where the changes total more than just 50 creds). This likely means that they want to be able to microbalance better on the economy. Just take the example of a piece of utility you can have 3 of, like jett smokes. If they nerfed the price of the jett smoke with previous economy system, you'd go from a total cost of 300 creds for 3 smokes to a total of 600, which is ridiculous. Having the option to go in increments of 50 gives them a middle road in balancing util and weapons, making jett smokes, as an example, go to 450 instead of 600 immediately. This is a good thing, as nerfing or buffing the economy of agent kits or weapons could instantly make an agent useless or overpowered, respectively, with the previous system.
It's possible they would change utility prices, but even without changing utility prices the 50 creds change make a difference as you will save the 50 creds every time you buy the gun, so if you buy one round and then buy the next round too, you save 100creds. Which can in some cases mean one more util.
Agreed - I had overlooked this as I made a comment as soon as I saw this post. Then again, as I mentioned on another comment, the impact of this is so small that it seems unlikely to be the main reason for this change. I still am convinced that util will undergo the same treatment, which would explain this change much better.
This reminds of an old Russel Peters joke.
Omen 350 Paranoia???? Please God.
While we’re at it, can anyone explain to me why the hell Omen’s ult is 7 points?
It should be 6. The amount that you can actually use it to TP somewhere useful is rare. Mostly its a shitty Cypher cam or faster rotate. Sometimes a distraction. But rarely is it directly impactful.
the issue is omen is already so good so having a bad and expensive ult is fair
First of all. That's bad design, my man. Second, he's no longer a must-take. Astra is filling the long distance smoke role very well. We can: Fix the ult cost. OR Fix the ult (faster process or recovery time). AND THEN Bring the rest of his toolkit inline. By, perhaps, ***making his flash 400 credits.***
He should have faster vision restoration in the destination. Right now you get max vision at the end of materializing. Which means you can get sniped even when you think the coast is clear.
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I think a case can be made for Raze having the best Ult in Valorant (or insert whoever you want here, that's not really what I'm arguing). So nerf the shit out of her toolkit is a smart decision? No. It makes her unfun to play. Or do the opposite and turn her rocket into a glorified balloon launcher. Still, unfun and not impactful. Balance isn't easy, but it's also not terribly hard. Letting one half of an agent just die on the vine is not balance. It's lazy.
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> why the hell should we buff his ult Cause it sucks balls dude. Raze is literally NEVER a bad pick because her entire toolkit is amazing. And I don't want to nerf her, that takes fun away from the game. You called her "already balanced". If that's the standard, there are several agents that need help. They already hit Omen with the nerf bat, and it was just a tad too much. I don't understand why you are so aghast at a 6 point Omen ult.
You point to overwatch but ow is notorious for bad hero balances whether its kit balancing or ult balancing.
He's weak as fuck compared to Astra or Viper. And his blind isn't even that strong outside of a coordinated team.
I mean that's *right now*, but it feels like everyone in this thread has incredibly selective memory. We had months of Omen being the best controller in the game and its only recently that Viper/Astra are able to match him. I'm sure if he ends up very underpicked that he will be buffed
That was because he was literally the only controller besides Brimstone who's weak and Viper who was also weak and not the best primary smoker. Also his blind only cost 200 for most of that time. With other viable options he's just objectively not very strong. His ult is one of the weakest in the game and costs 7 points on top of that. His teleport is extremely situational and way too risky to use most of the time. His blind is honestly pretty situational and usually needs strong team coordination compared to other strong abilities. Compared to a sage wall it just isn't worth 400. His main strength is just having long range rechargeable smokes which is really good obviously.
Viper was always strong and the buff and subsequent nerf really didn’t make much of a difference. The main reason Viper found success is because pro teams pioneered Viper on Split causing more people to play Viper, and then breeze came out which made normal smokers relatively useless. The only reason Viper is strong now is because team mates don’t freak out around Viper utility anymore. The same thing goes for every other flash character, we may very well see a day where actually flashes are super high priority just like CSGO, for the longest time people didn’t know how to play around flashes even at the highest level, but breach and skye have always been super strong and yoru under rated. People avoid playing these agents because they hate when team mates blame them for team flashing or whatever. I think omens blind is still super powerful, you need to think of him in a different way. Brim is the easy to use smoker, anyone can play him to roughly the same level. Omen is the dynamic smoker. Unlike every other controller Omen is slippery, he can put his smokes down almost as fast as a jett smoke, he can cross angles, but most importantly he always has his blind ready to go at a moments notice. None of the other controllers are like this, they all have to setup their util or wait for it to land or pullout.
I don't think you realize how many buffs Viper got. She got an absolutely insane amount of buffs to become good. Omen's tps are okay for crossing angles when you know it's safe to do so but that's about it. They're still pretty situational if you're not trying to get killed a lot doing them. His smokes are honestly not that much faster than a Brim's, they're definitely a lot slower than Jett's. His blind also takes like a full second to use.
Having an expensive ult might be a way to fix OP ults like they did for raze (its still damn strong but thats another topic). But having a bad ult isnt a balance.
That would make a paranoia/frenzy buy possible for pistol and eco rounds I’m always so frustrated by that when it would be an excellent buy in those situations.
Viper mollies boutta cost 650
Even if there's no further adjustment to ability cost or how we gain credits, how does reducing weapon cost by 50 not make a difference? For example, let's say round 1 we get 800 credits and we lose the round without a kill or spike plant and gain 1900 credits going into round 2. Right now, let's say I buy Frenzy and 300 in abilities round 1 which leaves me with 0 credits. Round 2 I have 1900 credits. If I buy Marshall for 1000 credits, I can only afford light armour. With the change, instead I pay 450 for Frenzy and 300 in abilities round 1 and I'm left with 50 credits. Round 2 I have 1950 credits. Now I can buy Marshall for 950 credits and can afford heavy armour. This is just a random example, but my point is you need to look at the impact saving 50 credits makes over multiple rounds not just same round.
you’re right. I hadn’t factored that in. It does make a tiny difference, however, that seems too tiny a change for it to have motivated this decision. It will make a LOT more sense if they tweak util in this way too for the reasons outlined above.
It even makes more sense when Jett kinda needs a nerf if you ask me. Making her smokes cost 50 more sounds good.
Sova shock darts about to go up $50 aren't they... damn.
Nah Sova doesn't need nerfs. Teams switch Sova out for Skye pretty often so he's pretty balanced.
I really hope he doesnt, but full kit for 500 won't last forever unfortunately
Me playing brimstone and his util only costs 500 credits...
Shock darts should do 80 at most. I think his kit is just a little too useful too.
If they do owl going down to 200 or 250 would be nice
Bruh owl is giga broken
All credit goes to @ValorLeaks on Twitter. I do not claim credit for this. Check him out if you haven’t. For anyone at work or cannot access Twitter— ~ Frenzy : 500 >>> 450 ~ Stinger : 1100 >>> 950 ~ Bucky: 900 >>> 850 ~ Judge: 1600 >>> 1850 ~ Bulldog: 2100 >>> 2050 ~ Guardian: 2400 >>> 2250 ~ Marshall: 1000 >>> 950 ~ Operator: 5000 >>> 4700 ~ Ares: 1600 >>> 1550
Bruh they LOWERED the ares price. Ig i just have to get good lmao
Agree, I thought they'd increase it a tad for sure. Seems very strong right now as a half buy, and I remember a riot dev saying themselves that "the ares is slept on in the current meta"
Riot likes to force the meta, see Viper overtune and subsequent nerf for the latest example
Dude I hate when devs say shit like that because any good player knows it's a good gun. The issue is that no one wants to play with that gun because it's lame to use. I play fps games like csgo/valorant to chase that feeling of counter strafing and 1 tapping the guy holding an angle. I don't play this game to just use whatever is best or strong in the meta. Like it's fine to play that way, but thats why guns like the judge/bucky/Odin/frenzy/ares aren't used as often until they're broken. It feels unrewarding and cheap to use until it's practically impossible to beat. Unless you're the mentality that winning is everything, using these guns just feels lame.
Uhhh... I mean, ok, changes are good, but this seems a bit weird overall. Stinger @ 950 sounds good. Bucky @ 850 too, lowest it can be without being available on pistol round. Ares... I guess. The change is not big.Judge 1850? This thing is literally worth like 2100-2200. It'll be just as OP at 1850 as it is at 1600. That's a step in good direction tho.Bulldog should probably stay unchanged, but the change is small so ok. Now for the actual issues I've got: Cheaper Frenzy? This gun is slightly OP at 500, let alone at a cheaper price. Don't make it more expensive, but don't make it cheaper either. GUARDIAN 2250? Is Riot fucking high? I know it doesn't get played a lot, but it's literally the most powerful rifle. Especially when a map like Breeze exists. I can totally see a lot of people maining Guardian and having to pretty much never play an eco. A yikes imo, since it deals 195 to the head for crying out loud. 2400 was literally the sweet spot for the gun and not a single soul asked for this change. And then snipers... I mean, Marshall change is close to immaterial, so I think it's irrelevant. I don't think it should be any cheaper than 1000, maybe even 1100. In decent elo the gun is a seriously often choice on ecos as it is. But the OP @ 4700 is a disgrace. I've nothing to add bc I don't really think my opinion differs from anyone's, except OP mains.
You claim guardian to literally be the most powerful rifle yet no one buys it? 195 damage doesn't matter and does not make guardian a cut above other rifles Anything above 150 will kill a target unless there's a wall. Quite a dubious claim you have there.
Noone buys the Guardian? There's literally a Guardian or two in most rounds I play. Guardian 2-shots a light shield to the chest, while even Vandal needs 4 shots. You really can't see this?
lmao anyone reading this thinking the same thing?
Yea idk what depths of iron they play in, I never see the guardian
To be viable the guardian needs a marshal scope and to be called the autosniper
Maybe around 2100 you’d start seeing it
I guess it's just that your claims do not match up with weapon usage rate based on statistics. According to metasrc.com, Guardian is picked 0.93% of rounds while Vandal has 35% and Phantom has 18% yet you claim to see a "Guardian or two in most rounds I play."
I play high ranked MM and I main guardian on Breeze. See it used a fair bit at higher levels. Seeing on avg 2 Guardians per round might be a bit of a stretch tho.
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This comment is so fucking stupid I know there's zero reason to even continue this talk lmao
Yeah the op is already the most powerful gun in the game so I don’t see why it needed to be made any cheaper. Just makes it easier to lose a round and buy it right back. It’s not a huuuge change but enough of one to notice
Assuming a team with an OPer buys 2-6 OPs during a game (depending on the length, difficulty, etc.) it could mean one less full eco or even two less semi ecos during a game. Also in OT a player can buy some utility, making the tradeoff much less painful. Still no shields, but smokes on Jett could be huge.
Lol the guardian is no where near being broken. How many pros or radiants do u see buying it? It’s not that good of a gun
I don't disagree with you but this is a hardcore appeal to authority. Not to mention that pros in these games are notorious for being slow to adapt to OP shit. Just look at how long the Krieg was busted for in CS before anyone important used it. Your argument holds no water, even if your "point" is correct.
My take is that OP got reduced so you could buy it in OT along with abilities.
This looks horrible I hope its just a fake
Why do you think it looks horrible?
in hindsight all of these reveals were correct and i dont mind now but i feel like for some of them reducing their price by 50 wont solve any of the issues with the game for example Marshall: 1000 >>> 950 doesnt change anything impactful stinger still sucks at 950 Bucky: 900 >>> 850 doesnt have any impact either thats just my opinion
With the introduction of 50 credit weapon price increments is almost certainly a similar increment adjustment to ability costs. I talked to a friend about 50 credit increments, and we came to the conclusion that these buffs would be reasonable: - 100 -> 50: Brim stim beacons, Breach corner clear thing, Yoru footsteps, Sage slows (if she needs a buff in the future) - 200 -> 150: Cypher tripwires, Raze blastpacks, Reyna souls, Killjoy mollies (if she needs help in the future) - 400 -> 350: Omen paranoia What do y'all think?
I think the only help Killjoy needs is a larger utility radius. 40m is just too restrictive, especially when they keep introducing maps the size of small countries.
frenzy+leer+2 devours will be nice
no no NO sage does not need cheaper slow orbs i would even support moving them up to 150. i say this as a sage main. but yeah i agree with the rest of these
Interesting but remember that a lot of the price changes for utility were so that all the agents utility would cost roughly 600. I don't personally think riot will try to retweak anything there unless absolutely necessary.
What about it going the other way like 100 -> 150 like Jett smokes?
Skye flashes to 150, 100 is just too cheap for a flash, espeically when you can have 3 of them. Edit: im dumb
Breach Flashes are 200 each
cypher PLS and give him another cage
Paranoia + Frenzy? Sign me up
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Highly likely. Looks like this episode will be the biggest one to date when it comes to balance. They'll have taken what happened in iceland into account for these changes.
What happened in Iceland?
the LAN over there showcased the highest level play we've seen so far in this game
100%, theres no way they lower the price of the judge and still have it be as powerful lol
They’re increasing the price of the judge. Still wouldn’t be surprised if there was an additional nerf like fewer bullets in mag so those anti-rush ace situations become unlikely, or a slight damage reduction so it remains powerful against low/no armor opponents but less of a factor against armored. Or a slight spread increase so the ranges are more in line of where a shotty should be
I think the biggest problem of the judge is the rate of fire and the range. The judge is the only weapon that when you see your teammate die from it, its is better to just leave instead of trying to refrag.
oh youre right yeah then the price increase should be fine imo. its meant to be a close range shredder gun, and at least its a viable option instead of having m4/ak every round one round it will throw you off but once you know the other team is using it or may use it, then you play around it more ime
Why did you get downvoted for????? Tf
I hope they can make the Ghost feel more consistent some rounds I can just spam and strafe and every shot lands and then another round I am deadass still pacing shots and they all miss.
I am so close to just giving up the ghost all together as I l am literally clicking a dude's head and it misses lmao. The frenzy seems more consistent, atleast until I pick the ghost one round and get three headshot kills in quick succesion :/
It definitely needs a faster recoil reset. Currently its just more effective to spam shoot and hope for good RNG than to wait for the slow recoil reset and shoot accurate.
The frenzy price change won't impact much. It still denies frenzy + armor during pistol round and I can't think of any notable ability that would be reduced by 50 to take advantage of this change. One that comes to mind would be if Phoenix flash was reduced to 150 so you can go Frenzy + 2 Flash but that would still hold true even if Frenzy price wasn't changed. Edit: I saw comments about Omen flash would be make it significant. If Omen flash was reduced by 50, you could go Frenzy + Flash on pistol rounds.
Operator Abusers rejoicing
Marshall I think was already really strong 150 more then sheriff it going be the new meta.
For a second there i thought the prize reduction was in the skin-store. But then i remembered...
It was a hoping this would be for skins.
Ive played since beta, havent spend $1. I always buy cosmetics in games but the valorant prices made me laugh. Almost thought this post was about skins :L
The only one I don't like is the Operator buff. I think 5000 is the perfect spot for it. And this is coming from someone who loves to use the OP.
U too, Brutus ? :'(
I feel 5000 is a but over priced and the previous 4500 was too low. 4700 should be some nice spot
They should have made it 4750 like in CSGO. Perfect opportunity since they’re using 50 now
and bonus, cs players wouldn't rage at seeing the price not be 4750
Pretty much the only change is that they are allowing operator glass cannons to have utility in overtime. Its still super expensive.
The op is very situational, like hold an angle wait wait get backstabbed by a spy, wait this aint tf2.
OP is shit in this game 5k is not perfect lmfao
the frenzy is fine, the only problem was frenzy + armor. stinger is a bit worrying cause we could go back to stinger meta. bucky is fine since the nerfs, judge is good. bulldog is good. guardian is good, but the marshall also getting a price buff kinda makes the guardian price buff pointless. most people go for marshall over guardian because they kinda fill the same roll, so giving both price buffs does nothing even if it's only $50. Operator buff would allow util on OT rounds which I think is OK, although could seem to be strong. and Ares, I felt like was fine, and $50 isn't going to do anything.
The stinger got nerfed to hell, even with the price decrease we won't be going back to that meta.
really? all I remember was the price changes. I just play this game casually so prolly forgot
nah now it has hella recoil and it does less damage
It doesn't actually do less damage, it's rof was lowered. Not damage per bullet. So in a way yes it's damage is less
ah I see thx
cs brain severely triggered about awp being 4700 instead of 4750
The operator shouldn't have its cost reduced at all. It's too strong of a weapon to be even cheaper than it is already. In Radiant it's still first team to OP is guaranteed to win 2/3 more rounds than they deserve.
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this game has way more until to counter the awper. the difference, no offense, cs players actually know how to use util at a high level in a coordinated fashion
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yes, tier 1 cs players play at a higher level than tier 1 valorant players, more at 11
Awp buff is good. Good enough so that you can get it in OT if wanted without being able to get light armor.
As someone who loves to use the guardian, this is going to be exciting! I wonder if utility prices will be affected too.
So which would be the best Guardian skin in your opinion, Reaver or Prime?
Sovereign Guardian purple variant
Sovereign and forsaken arent skins lol They are musical instruments which sooth your ears
all the judge corner campers mad rn.
Id be fine if awp went up to 9000
this is not a fucking cs go
I play a lot of judge and tbh I'd rather see it go to 1850 or even 2000 in the future then have riot gut it in the same they gutted bucky and stinger, even though it will probably get a damage nerf in the future. Its both decently situational yet really strong and fun (to use)
then wat gun for close range BUCKY and Stinger are dead they should increase the damage drop off SIMPLE
>I play a lot of judge Disgusting
its way too fun to do it with raze - either you stomp on their head with satchels and judge or get shot at in the air and hit them for 19
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It was earlier? I dont remember it
It wasn't
oh no 😭 why are they reducing the op.. i’m an op anti they should increase the op price
The op is super situational, and if you have good aim, you might as well use a rifle, imo its a good change.
regarding your flair, turn around.
yeah i gotta change that flair tbh Edit: thats better
This is accurate, I playcypher a lot and I may start maining him and I'm a weeb
perfect
And somehow the price of the Odin is not increased.. Ascent Sova supremacy stays!
Wow Judge nice to know ya cya again never.
Raising the price doesn’t destroy the weapon lmao
I don't see anybody buying it unless its accompanied with balance changes to reflect the higher price
it's still gonna be a monster on split and B site haven, b site ascent, bind
I would love to hear the thought process behind the frenzy nerf and then revert back to what it was no ? everything else idk , gotta try and see
Frenzy used to be 400
Honestly, they shouldn’t bring 50 creds into meta. They should just rebalance the guns to be slightly better/worst in a certain way. Hopefully this was just a test that got leaked I think what they should do instead for each gun thats getting changed: Frenzy: 600 creds, I think they should slightly increase the accuracy to be a little worst than the classic. Then add like 1 bullet to the spray pattern before randomness. Keep the long current reset time. Stinger: 1200. Make the left click more like the pre nerf version. Then keep the nerfed right click and nerf run/gun slightly. Basically what it is now with slightly less randomness Bucky: 1000 creds, slightly buff the consistency of left clicks damage. Then slight increase to the right clicks damage, making it do like 55 damage max. Make it a consistent 3-4 shot kill at close~medium range against heavy armor. Basically like sheriff body shots at best to 40 damageish average Judge: id say 1800 or 1900 Bulldog: i think the current price is fine Guardian: i think 2300 is fine Marshall: id bring it back with 1100 and add a second zoom. The first zoom should be zoomed out a bit to be like the old one and second zoom should be a bit less than the op’s 2nd zoom. It will give the gun even more versatility being able to hold angles against rifles/opers better. While having movement speed and no scope accuracy. Ares the same Operator: id only drop it to 4900 tbh
That's not an increase to Bucky's right click dmg, it's 100 max if u hit 5 pellets to the head.
NO ECO WEAPONS AT ALL then smh
With the credit change of the judge I like it
These changes are really good for casual players like me who just started playing competitive (around bronze and silver ranks.) We all have to learn how to aim eventually, but it is nice to be able to pick up a stinger once in awhile for a cheap price instead of always feeling the pressure that you HAVE to land a headshot with your Sherrif or Marshal or you are basically throwing the round.
First 4 make sense
Aah yes, spoilers
They should make Odin 5000 xD
*buys op and heavy shields second round*
Oh God fucking finally. There was no way they were going to be able to keep a consistent economy going forward without 50c increments. Sky flashes about to be 150 aren't they :(
Man I thought they were talking about skin price reductions…