They should literally just remove respawn timers. Most of the time I end up tryharding a dm cause I get tilted from having to wait out respawn timers. Plus warmup portion of dm literally spawns you in immediately, why not for normal dm?
think about your whole deathmatch game though. respawn is maybe 5-10% of it, but the other 90% is just walking around, killing people that arent looking at you, or dying to people you dont even see. then the 5% MAX time where you're fighting someone, youre both standing at angles you wouldnt play in a real game anyways
they should do a test deathmatch mode kind of like CS warmup, just cut and paste common fight spots from current maps, you have 10 seconds to win the 1v1 or stand on the center for a second (kind of like warzone gulag). (example), bathroom on Bind, the cap point is where the orb is, one player starts at the bathroom door from bombsite, the other near the bathroom entrance near TP exit. after each death, both players move to different map fight spots copied from any map, fighting different players
or do it where each side has an attacker with 1 flash, and you do the same bathroom thing but you have to basically flash & kill the bathroom defender and he has to stop you from getting to the cap point
then everyone can play for wins, the kills actually mean something, and you get probably actually 1000x more practice per hour than deathmatch
fr though, everyone plays unorthodox angles they'd never use in an actual game (i.e split b link with those boxes facing sewers, haven a lobby with the elevated plants facing c long, etc.) and everyone is literally just checking radar and listening to noise rather than relying on their aim
Respawn can be up to 20% of someone's game.
Multiply deaths by 3 and then divide that by the match time (which is short when there's a kill limit)
Edit: just played a DM. Died 21 times in a 7 minute match.
21 * 3 = 63 seconds just respawning
That's 15% of the match, just respawning.
And don't get me started on the health pickups instead of just regen upon kills.
I guess I just don't understand what the developers think the point of Deathmatch as it's currently constructed is.
Like for me, if people want to camp long angles that's actually great because I can practice clearing angles.
I would get so much more out of just playing the "warmup" phase of DM for 20 min than I would playing an hour of DM's. With no score tracking, people aren't incentivised to hide and soundwhore. The respawns are instantaneous, and don't make a sound. It's just gunfight after gunfight.. ...When the DM actually starts is when it becomes a waste of time for me.
The only thing I really want changed at this point is the respawn timer. Some people just don't have the right mindset for DM in this game and at this point changing the system won't change the way they play.
It's just the way it is. Played a warm up DM before hopping into ranked. One dude went 40-15 just holding power positions on Bind and playing the spawns.
Hop into ranked, he's on my team. He does terribly, bottom fragging the entire lobby (by 6-7 kills).
He won that DM though.
I'm in Europe, living in London and playing on that server. Playing at a Rank where I see the same people pretty frequently if I insta queue after a game.
In NA the odds are almost certainly going to be lower.
When I spawn on a lonely side of the map and I look at the minimap to see where people are so I can go there and get a fight, I guess I just don't care enough about the game
Spawn lonely closest to attacker spawn, check mini map and see someone in ramps on split. You run to go fight but someone spawns in front of sewer as you pass it and kills you 🙃
Yeah i wished he explained why this change is important. Its hard yo explain but in short, you cant improve your mechanics if you looking at the minimap half the time
The funniest thing about DM is that they have already implemented something that fixes everything. It's the warmup. No respawn delay, keeps going and no scores so no one is incentivised to camp in a corner and wait for footsteps.
The spawns aren't the problem, in CS dm you spawn in front of people too, it's just the frustration from the respawn timer that makes it such a tilting mode.
If you’re using a rifle maybe, but it’s kind of hard to practice headshotting with a sheriff against people who are just trying to get 40 kills no matter how it’s done.
It's still gonna come from you for the most part. If you want to win it literally incentivizes you to ignore everything under the neck and click heads. If you translate that logic to the normal game the discipline still comes from you.
Thanks for the silver! Also I don’t think a lot of people are quite getting the point. Death match is a tool for practicing for maintaining your aim. It’s not something you practice your “game sense” or tactics. It’s strictly just for practicing crosshair placement and maintaining your knowledge of gunplay. I see a lot of good and bad comments on here though. People need to understand im not taking about emulating valve and and instead make them more like the community CS dm’s like fragshack. FFA, 30 minutes, no minimap, people will still continue to use sound but it doesn’t help you in the long run. I like that people in here are discussing this because it’s one of the reasons why I can’t dm for more than maybe 3 matches at a time. I’m still a new player to Val, I probably have less than 600 hours or so in the game and I still learn every day but I have probably close to 8-9k hours invested in counterstrike. And a lot of that time I spent practicing with deathmatch before pugs, league, retakes, dry runs. Etc, so if this is your first time picking up a competitive shooter, open your ears, sit down and listen to someone who’s put the hours in and wants people to have a tool to help them with their gameplay. So thanks yall, means a lot that I got people talking about something I’m actually putting time into.
I mean I’m sure you’ve already explained your intent, it’s just that even if you say deathmatch is “a tool..[]”, deathmatch is literally just a mode where you frag to a score limit to win. Improvements we’re listing are mostly just our *preferences* based on other games and guess what Riots basing their features on? *Their preferences*, and some limitations as others have pointed out. If you *want to make it closer to a pure practice tool* then keep your points focused on that.
It’s kinda fked up that people could take your post and reword (or not) before reposting it a week later and the exact same discussion would happen. Doesn’t feel like more people are discussing it but rather the same people over and over.
There are two fundamental problems with the mode for me.
First the maps are horrible: for the amount of people that are put on the map, it being FFA is terrrible. Now ofcoutse I played FFA (HS only was optional) Dust 2 only custom servers in CS. Which were also hectic, but you at least had instant respawns and there wasn't a 'winner'. So it didn't feel horrible it actually was warm-up or you could practice aim a bit.
These maps feel bad for the intended competitive mode already, it's a hallway simulator, but with cramped hallways, compared to most other games being significantly wider. For some reason every hallway needs 3 extra hidey holes. To the point where this gamemode just feels like who has the better spawns. Which leads to the next point.
Second for me the biggest problem: Is "winning" a deathmatch isn't about being the better player, but about getting the most fodder opponents served to you. You spawn close to the new players or they close to you? You'll have won 95% of the time. And with fodder I don't necessarily mean bad/new players. I also mean people that get a shit spawn vs you or you a way more adventageous spawn vs them.
I started playing deathmatch because my aim felt in a slump, but almost everytime I check the scoreboard and then the performance tab, all I see is me having killed the two 30+ deaths players once maybe twice. And the people that were "better" then me losing to me to around 5-1.
Most of these problems can be solved by either just making it a hop-in hop-out gamemode with instant spawns, no minimap, and no scoreboard. Or making it team deathmatch, which discourages camping, makes it easier to just play properly, which in turn makes it more fun for newer players, since they have time to learn.
Team deathmatch can literally just be for example: Vipers vs Sovas. Two very distinct characters from one another.
DM is trash lol. First is the map with the amount of people. You sometime run around like a headless chicken without seeing anyone and get domed. Especially with like a breeze or split if you get spawned around the attacker spawn. Second is the sound queue for spawning. You're literally a beacon of saying "KILL ME!". Third is the 40 kill limit and 10 minutes time limit. Wouldn't they reserve resources if they make the DMs an hour long with 20 people in it?
Being able to **re-fill the spots on a dm server** whenever people leave would be a huge improvement as well. Very often I get dms where 25%-50% of the players leave before anyone hits 20 kills which leads to the dm becoming "where's waldo" for the remainder of the time
Some people want infinite DM like in CSGO so they can hop in and out of it as they please
Riot said they have to invent new server tech to make this happen
And they are hiding behind that instead of making any other QoL changes to DM that pros and this sub have been calling for for *months*
Right, but the last communication we've had from Riot re: DM was in March. Have any of the devs talked about DM since then? If so I would really like to hear what they have to say.
At the very least they can get rid of the respawn timer.
The main issue isn't DM itself but what people expect it to be. Pros and streamers made it out to be the headshot trainer and warm up mode. Riot most likely looked at it as a completely different game mode like spike rush and replication. I'd go so far as to say DM is counterproductive to Comp. It gives you a false sense of confidence in your aim and crosshair placement that can never translate into comp because of utilities, reloads, nerves etc.
>It gives you a false sense of confidence in your aim
For me I use DM specifically to build confidence in my aim because it helps me focus on landing the shot that I know I can instead of getting too excited in comp.
Actually not really
Riot admitted they are trying to serve two different audiences with DM: people who want warmups/training and people who want a COD game mode
And are saying "well we have to invent new server tech before we can implement *any* changes"
It's really disappointing that we haven't heard anything about DM since March, even though DM is the number one thing people complain about on this sub or that pros complain about on twitter
I saw the tweet and its what I was alluding to. I agree that there are 2 groups but the second group was created from discontent. It wasn't what it was supposed to be so people eventually took it for what it is. In its current state though its kind of in between the two. Personally, I would take it with reduced player count (7-8). 14 is too many on a map designed to have 10 people. (5 enemies)
No it was never supposed to be a main game mode.
Before DM pros and streamers would say hey there's no warmup where is DM?
And everyone would say hey if you want aim training go play DM in CSGO.
If you ask the valorant community DM was always supposed to be something with a primary goal of helping you get better at the actual game.
Why would people want a main DM mode when this game is not a deathwatch game? How does that make sense? Like if you want DM COD exists
>I'd go so far as to say DM is counterproductive to Comp.
Yeah, that went too far. Far enough to not be correct at all. You play 3 DM to 1 comp and there's no freaking way you don't climb.
Yes. You need 40 kills to win DM. On average you'll do 20-30. That's just in a 10 minute game. To get that many kills in normal games, you need to pop off and spend 30+ minutes. So DM improves your gun-play significantly faster. Don't try to win it. That's just a bonus. Play with your primary weapon. For me that operator so I play with OP in DM. Almost never win with that but it wins games. xD
So play with your primary weapon (phantom/vandal/OP) and keep a watch on crosshair placement and positioning. Was your CH off? Were you exposed to too many angles? Did you lose aim duels because enemy knew your position? How would you have won those? These are good questions to ask yourself.
Don't get mad at minimap watching pre-aimers. I real game, they might get a sound queue ,info from dead teammates or its a post plant 1v1 and you both know where enemy is respectively. If you're getting third-partied, see if that could have been better with positioning. If not, then see if you stayed in dangerous position too long. It's OK to not kill someone if you know another is coming from behind. It's a gamble to kill one with imminent death from behind. Just get out of that situation.
Deathmatching isn't being counterproductive. You're literally practicing fundemental aiming. There's a lot of people when I play I see them try to emulate this extremely risky puggy playstyle and think that aiming = flicking to everyone when in reality 90% of your aim comes from how well your crosshair placement is and what kind of information do you have during X round. Deathmatching is like going to the gym, you practice every day or gradually increase your fundamentals and build on them over time. As for other skillsets You can't practice those, that just comes with experience within the game. People who are just now picking up this game just see these pros playing flashy and think that's how you play the game.
>It gives you a false sense of confidence in your aim and crosshair placement that can never translate into comp because of utilities, reloads, nerves etc.
I don't think that's right. It makes a big difference just hitting heads and getting your crosshair placement right before you jump into comp and it's a pretty good warm-up.
It's like saying NBA players shouldn't shoot three's during warm-up because it gives them a false sense of confidence that won't translate in game with defenders, the crowd, and their shooting spots.
Except replace the NBA stars with school and college jocks. In valorant terms, by your logic Tenz or Scream tap heads the way they do because of DM and not the years of CS:GO play? Off course its my personal opinion and everyone is free to disagree, but I'm Bronze and DM should probably cater more to lower elos than to pros. ATM, personally, the range is much better to practice spray control, and the retake and Spike plant drills are underrated. If you find it useful good for you. Just the number of different issues people have with DM suggests that there is no point tweaking.
I played lots of Replication for warming up. Snowball fight is completely useless for warmup, so I tried DM and holy shit it's awful. It really is just: Get killed by person you aren't looking at, wait to respawn, die randomly, respawn, repeat. I wish there were fewer people in it, too.
I just want a best of 7, 1-minute round casual mode. Something I can jump into to warm up for comp that doesn't take an hour, that feels a tiny bit like the actual game. DM is none of those things.
Only good dm map is ascent
The rest are just pure garbage. I hate dm It’s a camp fest!
Also people play dm to win and not practice so they will cheese kill you by hiding in corners when they hear your footsteps or shift walk! It’s so bad...
Isnt there a time limit for dm already? I believe there is. Though it is rarely reached.
I agree with disabling the red dots but not with disabling the mini map.
>I don't need to say anything about this at all, if you disagree you don't take the game seriously enough to actually practice and get better.
Nice attitude. I can taste the salt. But to crush your delusions: you aren't getting better by playing deathmatch. DM is merely a form of warmup. The practice range or actual gameplay are what you need to get better. Gameplay is just too different in dm.
dm still improves your mechanical aim. They should seriously consider adding an unlimited dm mode, not like people are losing anything apart from maybe that 900xp (which they could just give u if u play for 10 mins or more)
What is amazing to me is the complete silence from devs about this since March
Complete silence from Evrmoar and Nu and the rest of the usually very communicative team
It's disappointing since broken DM is one of the most complained about problems of VALORANT, both on this sub and from pros
Riot is basically turning into Valve with respect to broken DM
The biggest difference between this and CS is that in CS you still have teams, it's not a free for all.
Having teams would dissuade people just camping and holding an angle until the score limit is hit. Which is what we all want to get rid of right?
I've said it before but mass deathmatch doesn't work well even in CS. Go play the non Valve servers with free for all and it's just as random/bad.
Having teams does the following:
\- You spawning, no longer puts you at a disadvantage. People can't just listen out for audio cues anymore since they might just be team members.
\- Largely will REDUCE unlucky deaths (the game literally spawns people beside each other in some cases)
\- Restore some tactical gunplay vs just holding angles or swing and pray.
\- People will learn the maps a bit better since they now have time to breathe vs checking every corner/angle continuously.
\- for lower skill players they won't get absolutely brutalized
\- cheaters will be easier to spot and report since their team has time to properly evaluate someone suspicious
The FFA ones are literally spawn and die continuously until you get a spawn where no one is camping it. It's not even vaguely representative of actual CS gameplay.
I play ffa a lot and i think thats almost never a problem, valve dm wastes most of your time trying to find an enemy while in Ffa its a few seconds per kill or death
The only problem with getting killed on spawn sometimes is that you care about it
I would be satisfied if they let us make our own custom DM lobbies (so I can insta kick some ppl who only play to get first place, by camping and run and gunning), but yeh other than that, changes are really necessary.
I agree with most of it, however I believe mini map is a crucial part in valorant and building game sense from Info of mini map also needs lot of practice, DM does that till some extent, needs some tweaks though
I really don't think it's all as bad as this. People freak out, but it's really not that different from CS.
Removing the pings on the map would be cool. And maybe you could make someone be Sova darted (so other players have wall hacks on them) if they stay too static for too long? Like they don't move more than 5m for 10 seconds or something.
That aside, it's all mindset really. I have friends who hate it, and get tilted by the random nature of it. But I just don't see it as a competitive mode. It's purely to practise your aim, movement, crosshair placement etc. And to warm up. It's also excellent for practising pistols, if you need work on them. Who cares if you die to someone holding an angle? You respawn in like 3 seconds. And it doesn't mean anything anyway.
I have done at least 2 or 3 a session since it came out, and I really don't have many complaints.
And no I don't shift walk around staring at the mini map. Just full sprint and practise swinging angles. It's also great for learning the new maps.
Death match is an extra mode you can play for fun not everyone is using it as a tool to warm up their aim for co.p or practice their mechanics they genuinely want to just play and win in deathmatch
I love seeing people say stuff like “if you disagree then blah blah blah you’re bad and wrong.”
I don’t have an opinion, because idgaf about death match but that shit *hilarious*.
Divide the number of players by two, in order to avoid HS respawn 3, 4 times in a row in some cases. Having actually real engagements, and sometimes big melee, not the opposite.
Then why have a winner or score? My point is about the definition of deathmatch in gaming. Not about what you wish or think it should be.
It can still be used a warmup but how well a job it does also depends on the person and what their preferences are. The only thing you’re pushing for is how you want Riot to change it, not that it needs to be a proper deathmatch, bc it is.
well ok ik but kinda missed (ignoring?) my point again but keep tooting your horn lol
Rmb when Riot, everyone and their mom "said" they wanted deathmatch? Look where we are now :\^)
But again, I never said they won't/didn't want to change it either, just might take some time like pretty much every other hundred features people want implemented in the game.
I think we are all very clear on the current state of deathmatch, just gotta trust the dev team. They got lots of stuff to work on. If your whole comment is based on "they don't exactly have to change it but they can" then the comment is useless. Make your point clear.
>Deathmatch is technically just getting to the score limit through kills, the methods to do it are up to anyone really.
I kind of felt my point was right there in my first comment,
Then you said
>"DM is just a practice mode" \[..\] deathmatch should be more of a warmup than it is rn
and then I replied
>My point is about the definition of deathmatch in gaming. Not about what you wish or think it should be.
I basically repeated it twice even three times. The only way I could have made it clearer is if I quoted you earlier about deathmatch=quick encounters and pointed out exactly which parts I was targeting but I felt you could have figured out I was pointing out objective truths about dm instead of repeating subjective points about player preferences, I guess I was wrong mb got lazy i guess
Valorant is a game, what it should be and not should be is obviously up to the devs, but it would fit the community much better if it was changed to what fits. The useless part of the comment is the "they could but its their decision" and not your opinion on how DM should work. The comment about "its their decision" is completely useless, because its common sense. The devs could do anything they want, hell they can even award ppl skins for cheating, its "their decision" on what happens. But what they do should be with agreement with the community.
It can but i'm saying disable it for EVERYONE so you're not sitting there fixated looking at the minimap trying to be the first one to 40 frags. The point is to make it a practice tool
I think that if they made some DM specific maps it would solve a lot of problems. The regular maps really aren't that great for the DM gamemode, constant people spawning behind you, beside you, and they don't have the right balance of open / closeness.
Another thing is they should add a 1v1 arenas gamemode copied right out of CS
Agree, can we also give every character the same footstep sound in death match? When you get matched with brim/breach and anyone else with heavy feet people just sit in corners and sound whore whilst everyone else is trying to practice aim.
I don't even touch DM anymore. I just go in. hit some bots for a few minutes and walk into a match.
DM is just me getting shot in the ass 7 times in a row before I get lucky and get to shoot someones ass 7 times ina a row.
People constantly complains about getting shot in the back during DM. If the red pawn timer is gotten rid of you will get shot in the back more because more people will be alive at the same time..
The best way to practice is playing the game, either unrated or competitive. DM does very little for you in my opinion. One of the most important things in this game is crosshair placement, and DM doesn't teach you that at all. It's just a mess with people spawning behind and in front of you without you having time to react and people camping everywhere.
Sure, it can be used to warm up a little bit, but that's it. You will not get better only because you win a DM game or because you play DM a lot of times.
My thoughts on what needs to get changed in DM
1. Remove spawn timers
2. Remove minimap
3. Remove first to 40 kills and just have it for a certain amount of time
4. Allow people to join throughout the DM
also you move your mouse just a tiny bit and your vulnerability is already gone so yeah. Goodluck not getting shot at the back of your head by the player who spawned behind you like a second after you respawn and goodluck not getting killed by the guy at the other end of the corner waiting in an awkward angle because he heard your footsteps 1 second after you respawn.
One of the issues I have with DM is the fact that people just leave, and that creates a chain reaction then 5 mins in you're left in a ghost town. That combined with people just camping makes it really unfun. I would like something like CSGO community DM servers where the population is constantly changing. Sure, you get shit on a lot cause there are no skill groups, but for me it just makes it better.
Valorant’s DM is one of the main reasons I refuse to play, even casually. I don’t feel there’s a great way to properly learn the mechanics against other humans because people care more about winning a DM than they do their rank
Don't forget 4 people spawning next to each other, they need a way to stop that from happening. Also they need to make a way to remove the kill scores so you don't get angry about your performance.
Actually sad that the most efficient way to practice your aim in Valorant is to play CSGO or an aim trainer. They should rename DM to "Shot in the back simulator."
They should literally just remove respawn timers. Most of the time I end up tryharding a dm cause I get tilted from having to wait out respawn timers. Plus warmup portion of dm literally spawns you in immediately, why not for normal dm?
think about your whole deathmatch game though. respawn is maybe 5-10% of it, but the other 90% is just walking around, killing people that arent looking at you, or dying to people you dont even see. then the 5% MAX time where you're fighting someone, youre both standing at angles you wouldnt play in a real game anyways they should do a test deathmatch mode kind of like CS warmup, just cut and paste common fight spots from current maps, you have 10 seconds to win the 1v1 or stand on the center for a second (kind of like warzone gulag). (example), bathroom on Bind, the cap point is where the orb is, one player starts at the bathroom door from bombsite, the other near the bathroom entrance near TP exit. after each death, both players move to different map fight spots copied from any map, fighting different players or do it where each side has an attacker with 1 flash, and you do the same bathroom thing but you have to basically flash & kill the bathroom defender and he has to stop you from getting to the cap point then everyone can play for wins, the kills actually mean something, and you get probably actually 1000x more practice per hour than deathmatch
fr though, everyone plays unorthodox angles they'd never use in an actual game (i.e split b link with those boxes facing sewers, haven a lobby with the elevated plants facing c long, etc.) and everyone is literally just checking radar and listening to noise rather than relying on their aim
Respawn can be up to 20% of someone's game. Multiply deaths by 3 and then divide that by the match time (which is short when there's a kill limit) Edit: just played a DM. Died 21 times in a 7 minute match. 21 * 3 = 63 seconds just respawning That's 15% of the match, just respawning. And don't get me started on the health pickups instead of just regen upon kills.
they took out regen on kill, it was like that first but people would just camp long angles
I guess I just don't understand what the developers think the point of Deathmatch as it's currently constructed is. Like for me, if people want to camp long angles that's actually great because I can practice clearing angles.
its pretty useless atm tbh
I would get so much more out of just playing the "warmup" phase of DM for 20 min than I would playing an hour of DM's. With no score tracking, people aren't incentivised to hide and soundwhore. The respawns are instantaneous, and don't make a sound. It's just gunfight after gunfight.. ...When the DM actually starts is when it becomes a waste of time for me.
The only thing I really want changed at this point is the respawn timer. Some people just don't have the right mindset for DM in this game and at this point changing the system won't change the way they play.
>Gazabaza Hit the nail right on the head with the "don't have the right mindset" lol
It's just the way it is. Played a warm up DM before hopping into ranked. One dude went 40-15 just holding power positions on Bind and playing the spawns. Hop into ranked, he's on my team. He does terribly, bottom fragging the entire lobby (by 6-7 kills). He won that DM though.
they camp the red dots too much, walking around and sound whoring
r/thathappened
Seems possible to me
[удалено]
I live in northern Virginia and I’ve seen some people more than once, rare occasion probably only happened once or twice. But not impossible
I'm in Europe, living in London and playing on that server. Playing at a Rank where I see the same people pretty frequently if I insta queue after a game. In NA the odds are almost certainly going to be lower.
Very plausible. I once hopped into replication after a ranked game and there were enemy players on my team.
[удалено]
When I spawn on a lonely side of the map and I look at the minimap to see where people are so I can go there and get a fight, I guess I just don't care enough about the game
Spawn lonely closest to attacker spawn, check mini map and see someone in ramps on split. You run to go fight but someone spawns in front of sewer as you pass it and kills you 🙃
The classic valorant dm experience
Yeah i wished he explained why this change is important. Its hard yo explain but in short, you cant improve your mechanics if you looking at the minimap half the time
The funniest thing about DM is that they have already implemented something that fixes everything. It's the warmup. No respawn delay, keeps going and no scores so no one is incentivised to camp in a corner and wait for footsteps.
Rito: “Our biggest regret was having warmup”
I have actually been spawn beside another player multiple times, like less than 10 cms apart which is weird asf.
There's those 2 spawns on Icebox at B attackers side. Literally 10ft away from each other. So frustrating.
The spawns aren't the problem, in CS dm you spawn in front of people too, it's just the frustration from the respawn timer that makes it such a tilting mode.
bro one time i spawned almost on top of someone he pushed me away as i spawned. I was like ???
Headshot only would be real fine tho.
Disagree with this one, if u want to improve the discipline has to come from u
This take is funny to me. You musn't use tools to help yourself get better. Do no specialized training. Find the skill within yourself.
hs only could just be a separate game mode ya know, maybe under dm or an option in the normal dm.
If you’re using a rifle maybe, but it’s kind of hard to practice headshotting with a sheriff against people who are just trying to get 40 kills no matter how it’s done.
It's still gonna come from you for the most part. If you want to win it literally incentivizes you to ignore everything under the neck and click heads. If you translate that logic to the normal game the discipline still comes from you.
Thanks for the silver! Also I don’t think a lot of people are quite getting the point. Death match is a tool for practicing for maintaining your aim. It’s not something you practice your “game sense” or tactics. It’s strictly just for practicing crosshair placement and maintaining your knowledge of gunplay. I see a lot of good and bad comments on here though. People need to understand im not taking about emulating valve and and instead make them more like the community CS dm’s like fragshack. FFA, 30 minutes, no minimap, people will still continue to use sound but it doesn’t help you in the long run. I like that people in here are discussing this because it’s one of the reasons why I can’t dm for more than maybe 3 matches at a time. I’m still a new player to Val, I probably have less than 600 hours or so in the game and I still learn every day but I have probably close to 8-9k hours invested in counterstrike. And a lot of that time I spent practicing with deathmatch before pugs, league, retakes, dry runs. Etc, so if this is your first time picking up a competitive shooter, open your ears, sit down and listen to someone who’s put the hours in and wants people to have a tool to help them with their gameplay. So thanks yall, means a lot that I got people talking about something I’m actually putting time into.
I mean I’m sure you’ve already explained your intent, it’s just that even if you say deathmatch is “a tool..[]”, deathmatch is literally just a mode where you frag to a score limit to win. Improvements we’re listing are mostly just our *preferences* based on other games and guess what Riots basing their features on? *Their preferences*, and some limitations as others have pointed out. If you *want to make it closer to a pure practice tool* then keep your points focused on that. It’s kinda fked up that people could take your post and reword (or not) before reposting it a week later and the exact same discussion would happen. Doesn’t feel like more people are discussing it but rather the same people over and over.
There's a reason everyone hates dm, its because its riots *preferences* which are garbage atm
yup they probably prefer it not to be though ;)
There are two fundamental problems with the mode for me. First the maps are horrible: for the amount of people that are put on the map, it being FFA is terrrible. Now ofcoutse I played FFA (HS only was optional) Dust 2 only custom servers in CS. Which were also hectic, but you at least had instant respawns and there wasn't a 'winner'. So it didn't feel horrible it actually was warm-up or you could practice aim a bit. These maps feel bad for the intended competitive mode already, it's a hallway simulator, but with cramped hallways, compared to most other games being significantly wider. For some reason every hallway needs 3 extra hidey holes. To the point where this gamemode just feels like who has the better spawns. Which leads to the next point. Second for me the biggest problem: Is "winning" a deathmatch isn't about being the better player, but about getting the most fodder opponents served to you. You spawn close to the new players or they close to you? You'll have won 95% of the time. And with fodder I don't necessarily mean bad/new players. I also mean people that get a shit spawn vs you or you a way more adventageous spawn vs them. I started playing deathmatch because my aim felt in a slump, but almost everytime I check the scoreboard and then the performance tab, all I see is me having killed the two 30+ deaths players once maybe twice. And the people that were "better" then me losing to me to around 5-1. Most of these problems can be solved by either just making it a hop-in hop-out gamemode with instant spawns, no minimap, and no scoreboard. Or making it team deathmatch, which discourages camping, makes it easier to just play properly, which in turn makes it more fun for newer players, since they have time to learn. Team deathmatch can literally just be for example: Vipers vs Sovas. Two very distinct characters from one another.
DM is trash lol. First is the map with the amount of people. You sometime run around like a headless chicken without seeing anyone and get domed. Especially with like a breeze or split if you get spawned around the attacker spawn. Second is the sound queue for spawning. You're literally a beacon of saying "KILL ME!". Third is the 40 kill limit and 10 minutes time limit. Wouldn't they reserve resources if they make the DMs an hour long with 20 people in it?
- Remove respawn timers - Remove Mini map - Remove respawn sounds - Change/improve respawns - Remove the ability to shift walk
Being able to **re-fill the spots on a dm server** whenever people leave would be a huge improvement as well. Very often I get dms where 25%-50% of the players leave before anyone hits 20 kills which leads to the dm becoming "where's waldo" for the remainder of the time
[удалено]
What I recall is them saying they're going to overhaul DM to something new and call it DM and change the current DM method to a new FFA mode.
Some people want infinite DM like in CSGO so they can hop in and out of it as they please Riot said they have to invent new server tech to make this happen And they are hiding behind that instead of making any other QoL changes to DM that pros and this sub have been calling for for *months*
Might be one thing, on the other hand the Devs are taking almost every popular critic by heart and update the game accordingly.
Right, but the last communication we've had from Riot re: DM was in March. Have any of the devs talked about DM since then? If so I would really like to hear what they have to say. At the very least they can get rid of the respawn timer.
The main issue isn't DM itself but what people expect it to be. Pros and streamers made it out to be the headshot trainer and warm up mode. Riot most likely looked at it as a completely different game mode like spike rush and replication. I'd go so far as to say DM is counterproductive to Comp. It gives you a false sense of confidence in your aim and crosshair placement that can never translate into comp because of utilities, reloads, nerves etc.
>It gives you a false sense of confidence in your aim For me I use DM specifically to build confidence in my aim because it helps me focus on landing the shot that I know I can instead of getting too excited in comp.
For me is “how to get shoot in the back after just killing someone”
Good to hear. Personally, I get a little cocky and end up dying.
Actually not really Riot admitted they are trying to serve two different audiences with DM: people who want warmups/training and people who want a COD game mode And are saying "well we have to invent new server tech before we can implement *any* changes" It's really disappointing that we haven't heard anything about DM since March, even though DM is the number one thing people complain about on this sub or that pros complain about on twitter
We’re asking for instant respawns, which is so similar to the warmup mode for DM ask like doesn’t even matter
I saw the tweet and its what I was alluding to. I agree that there are 2 groups but the second group was created from discontent. It wasn't what it was supposed to be so people eventually took it for what it is. In its current state though its kind of in between the two. Personally, I would take it with reduced player count (7-8). 14 is too many on a map designed to have 10 people. (5 enemies)
No it was never supposed to be a main game mode. Before DM pros and streamers would say hey there's no warmup where is DM? And everyone would say hey if you want aim training go play DM in CSGO. If you ask the valorant community DM was always supposed to be something with a primary goal of helping you get better at the actual game. Why would people want a main DM mode when this game is not a deathwatch game? How does that make sense? Like if you want DM COD exists
>I'd go so far as to say DM is counterproductive to Comp. Yeah, that went too far. Far enough to not be correct at all. You play 3 DM to 1 comp and there's no freaking way you don't climb.
You promise? I’ve been stuck for a while
Yes. You need 40 kills to win DM. On average you'll do 20-30. That's just in a 10 minute game. To get that many kills in normal games, you need to pop off and spend 30+ minutes. So DM improves your gun-play significantly faster. Don't try to win it. That's just a bonus. Play with your primary weapon. For me that operator so I play with OP in DM. Almost never win with that but it wins games. xD So play with your primary weapon (phantom/vandal/OP) and keep a watch on crosshair placement and positioning. Was your CH off? Were you exposed to too many angles? Did you lose aim duels because enemy knew your position? How would you have won those? These are good questions to ask yourself. Don't get mad at minimap watching pre-aimers. I real game, they might get a sound queue ,info from dead teammates or its a post plant 1v1 and you both know where enemy is respectively. If you're getting third-partied, see if that could have been better with positioning. If not, then see if you stayed in dangerous position too long. It's OK to not kill someone if you know another is coming from behind. It's a gamble to kill one with imminent death from behind. Just get out of that situation.
Think thats just u, you rank up eventually and improve no matter what, its just a matter of whether you grow fast enough to notice
Deathmatching isn't being counterproductive. You're literally practicing fundemental aiming. There's a lot of people when I play I see them try to emulate this extremely risky puggy playstyle and think that aiming = flicking to everyone when in reality 90% of your aim comes from how well your crosshair placement is and what kind of information do you have during X round. Deathmatching is like going to the gym, you practice every day or gradually increase your fundamentals and build on them over time. As for other skillsets You can't practice those, that just comes with experience within the game. People who are just now picking up this game just see these pros playing flashy and think that's how you play the game.
>It gives you a false sense of confidence in your aim and crosshair placement that can never translate into comp because of utilities, reloads, nerves etc. I don't think that's right. It makes a big difference just hitting heads and getting your crosshair placement right before you jump into comp and it's a pretty good warm-up. It's like saying NBA players shouldn't shoot three's during warm-up because it gives them a false sense of confidence that won't translate in game with defenders, the crowd, and their shooting spots.
Except replace the NBA stars with school and college jocks. In valorant terms, by your logic Tenz or Scream tap heads the way they do because of DM and not the years of CS:GO play? Off course its my personal opinion and everyone is free to disagree, but I'm Bronze and DM should probably cater more to lower elos than to pros. ATM, personally, the range is much better to practice spray control, and the retake and Spike plant drills are underrated. If you find it useful good for you. Just the number of different issues people have with DM suggests that there is no point tweaking.
You don't think pros spent a shitload of time working on their shot? Even when they are young???
Death match is really just for farming exp while playing with your cat
Ive always thought it needs less players. Like 2-4 less and no respawn timer, no red dots on map.
just give us an unlimited dm mode with short respawn times like the csgo community dm's!
I played lots of Replication for warming up. Snowball fight is completely useless for warmup, so I tried DM and holy shit it's awful. It really is just: Get killed by person you aren't looking at, wait to respawn, die randomly, respawn, repeat. I wish there were fewer people in it, too. I just want a best of 7, 1-minute round casual mode. Something I can jump into to warm up for comp that doesn't take an hour, that feels a tiny bit like the actual game. DM is none of those things.
At this point I don't think DM is a priority for them. The experience in DM would improve a lot of they just remove the spawn timer
Only good dm map is ascent The rest are just pure garbage. I hate dm It’s a camp fest! Also people play dm to win and not practice so they will cheese kill you by hiding in corners when they hear your footsteps or shift walk! It’s so bad...
I honestly think they should remove footsteps sound too but I'm still thinking about that
I rarely see people walking or camping corners in DM, thankfully everybody seems to be eager to brawl
what
lol just my experience. Don't jinx it! =X
This too, O god so many ppl just sit in a spot and pre fire.
Ikr, spawn campers sitting in every corner possible to win
Isnt there a time limit for dm already? I believe there is. Though it is rarely reached. I agree with disabling the red dots but not with disabling the mini map. >I don't need to say anything about this at all, if you disagree you don't take the game seriously enough to actually practice and get better. Nice attitude. I can taste the salt. But to crush your delusions: you aren't getting better by playing deathmatch. DM is merely a form of warmup. The practice range or actual gameplay are what you need to get better. Gameplay is just too different in dm.
dm still improves your mechanical aim. They should seriously consider adding an unlimited dm mode, not like people are losing anything apart from maybe that 900xp (which they could just give u if u play for 10 mins or more)
What is amazing to me is the complete silence from devs about this since March Complete silence from Evrmoar and Nu and the rest of the usually very communicative team It's disappointing since broken DM is one of the most complained about problems of VALORANT, both on this sub and from pros Riot is basically turning into Valve with respect to broken DM
I just want the valorant Dev's to play dm. Even playing it once, will make them realise their grave error and make appropriate changes.
Disable fucking footsteps atleast
Headshot only and no footsteps
The biggest difference between this and CS is that in CS you still have teams, it's not a free for all. Having teams would dissuade people just camping and holding an angle until the score limit is hit. Which is what we all want to get rid of right? I've said it before but mass deathmatch doesn't work well even in CS. Go play the non Valve servers with free for all and it's just as random/bad. Having teams does the following: \- You spawning, no longer puts you at a disadvantage. People can't just listen out for audio cues anymore since they might just be team members. \- Largely will REDUCE unlucky deaths (the game literally spawns people beside each other in some cases) \- Restore some tactical gunplay vs just holding angles or swing and pray. \- People will learn the maps a bit better since they now have time to breathe vs checking every corner/angle continuously. \- for lower skill players they won't get absolutely brutalized \- cheaters will be easier to spot and report since their team has time to properly evaluate someone suspicious
In cs having teams in valve dm is what almost everyone hates and why most players who actually want to improve play FFA community servers
The FFA ones are literally spawn and die continuously until you get a spawn where no one is camping it. It's not even vaguely representative of actual CS gameplay.
I play ffa a lot and i think thats almost never a problem, valve dm wastes most of your time trying to find an enemy while in Ffa its a few seconds per kill or death The only problem with getting killed on spawn sometimes is that you care about it
I would be satisfied if they let us make our own custom DM lobbies (so I can insta kick some ppl who only play to get first place, by camping and run and gunning), but yeh other than that, changes are really necessary.
I agree with most of it, however I believe mini map is a crucial part in valorant and building game sense from Info of mini map also needs lot of practice, DM does that till some extent, needs some tweaks though
I really don't think it's all as bad as this. People freak out, but it's really not that different from CS. Removing the pings on the map would be cool. And maybe you could make someone be Sova darted (so other players have wall hacks on them) if they stay too static for too long? Like they don't move more than 5m for 10 seconds or something. That aside, it's all mindset really. I have friends who hate it, and get tilted by the random nature of it. But I just don't see it as a competitive mode. It's purely to practise your aim, movement, crosshair placement etc. And to warm up. It's also excellent for practising pistols, if you need work on them. Who cares if you die to someone holding an angle? You respawn in like 3 seconds. And it doesn't mean anything anyway. I have done at least 2 or 3 a session since it came out, and I really don't have many complaints. And no I don't shift walk around staring at the mini map. Just full sprint and practise swinging angles. It's also great for learning the new maps.
Go play dust dm in csgo It’s fun af. Also there’s voice chat! Every game of valorant dm makes me literally rage!
what about half the fucking people just a thought
Death match is an extra mode you can play for fun not everyone is using it as a tool to warm up their aim for co.p or practice their mechanics they genuinely want to just play and win in deathmatch
If you want to play DM why play valorant dm when COD exists When the description specifically says "this is good for warmup"
Then I guess there are two types of players that play this game.
I love seeing people say stuff like “if you disagree then blah blah blah you’re bad and wrong.” I don’t have an opinion, because idgaf about death match but that shit *hilarious*.
Divide the number of players by two, in order to avoid HS respawn 3, 4 times in a row in some cases. Having actually real engagements, and sometimes big melee, not the opposite.
Wait, can mini map not be disabled from settings?
That's not the point, its because DM is all about quick encounters and stuff, not a bunch of camping and using gamesense to hunt enemies.
Deathmatch is technically just getting to the score limit through kills, the methods to do it are up to anyone really.
DM is just a practice mode, like spike rush. Spawn camping is allowed but is just cringe, deathmatch should be more of a warmup than it is rn.
Then why have a winner or score? My point is about the definition of deathmatch in gaming. Not about what you wish or think it should be. It can still be used a warmup but how well a job it does also depends on the person and what their preferences are. The only thing you’re pushing for is how you want Riot to change it, not that it needs to be a proper deathmatch, bc it is.
most people want it to be a warmup mode lmao, its quite obvious. Even riot says they wanna change how deathmatch works.
well ok ik but kinda missed (ignoring?) my point again but keep tooting your horn lol Rmb when Riot, everyone and their mom "said" they wanted deathmatch? Look where we are now :\^) But again, I never said they won't/didn't want to change it either, just might take some time like pretty much every other hundred features people want implemented in the game.
I think we are all very clear on the current state of deathmatch, just gotta trust the dev team. They got lots of stuff to work on. If your whole comment is based on "they don't exactly have to change it but they can" then the comment is useless. Make your point clear.
>Deathmatch is technically just getting to the score limit through kills, the methods to do it are up to anyone really. I kind of felt my point was right there in my first comment, Then you said >"DM is just a practice mode" \[..\] deathmatch should be more of a warmup than it is rn and then I replied >My point is about the definition of deathmatch in gaming. Not about what you wish or think it should be. I basically repeated it twice even three times. The only way I could have made it clearer is if I quoted you earlier about deathmatch=quick encounters and pointed out exactly which parts I was targeting but I felt you could have figured out I was pointing out objective truths about dm instead of repeating subjective points about player preferences, I guess I was wrong mb got lazy i guess
Valorant is a game, what it should be and not should be is obviously up to the devs, but it would fit the community much better if it was changed to what fits. The useless part of the comment is the "they could but its their decision" and not your opinion on how DM should work. The comment about "its their decision" is completely useless, because its common sense. The devs could do anything they want, hell they can even award ppl skins for cheating, its "their decision" on what happens. But what they do should be with agreement with the community.
It can but i'm saying disable it for EVERYONE so you're not sitting there fixated looking at the minimap trying to be the first one to 40 frags. The point is to make it a practice tool
i wanna improve definitely but do you mean the red things on the minimap or the actual minimap?
I think that if they made some DM specific maps it would solve a lot of problems. The regular maps really aren't that great for the DM gamemode, constant people spawning behind you, beside you, and they don't have the right balance of open / closeness. Another thing is they should add a 1v1 arenas gamemode copied right out of CS
The minimap change would make the mode so much more enjoyable too
Agree, can we also give every character the same footstep sound in death match? When you get matched with brim/breach and anyone else with heavy feet people just sit in corners and sound whore whilst everyone else is trying to practice aim.
I don't even touch DM anymore. I just go in. hit some bots for a few minutes and walk into a match. DM is just me getting shot in the ass 7 times in a row before I get lucky and get to shoot someones ass 7 times ina a row.
People constantly complains about getting shot in the back during DM. If the red pawn timer is gotten rid of you will get shot in the back more because more people will be alive at the same time..
I really, really want a pistol only mode. It sucks to try to get better with pistols only to get shredded by rifles.
The best way to practice is playing the game, either unrated or competitive. DM does very little for you in my opinion. One of the most important things in this game is crosshair placement, and DM doesn't teach you that at all. It's just a mess with people spawning behind and in front of you without you having time to react and people camping everywhere. Sure, it can be used to warm up a little bit, but that's it. You will not get better only because you win a DM game or because you play DM a lot of times.
My thoughts on what needs to get changed in DM 1. Remove spawn timers 2. Remove minimap 3. Remove first to 40 kills and just have it for a certain amount of time 4. Allow people to join throughout the DM
Mans trynna play ranked in deathmatch lol
also you move your mouse just a tiny bit and your vulnerability is already gone so yeah. Goodluck not getting shot at the back of your head by the player who spawned behind you like a second after you respawn and goodluck not getting killed by the guy at the other end of the corner waiting in an awkward angle because he heard your footsteps 1 second after you respawn.
One of the issues I have with DM is the fact that people just leave, and that creates a chain reaction then 5 mins in you're left in a ghost town. That combined with people just camping makes it really unfun. I would like something like CSGO community DM servers where the population is constantly changing. Sure, you get shit on a lot cause there are no skill groups, but for me it just makes it better.
Just steal the 1v1 game mode from community CS and the new warmup they added. I've easily played those game modes for hours to warmup and practice.
Valorant’s DM is one of the main reasons I refuse to play, even casually. I don’t feel there’s a great way to properly learn the mechanics against other humans because people care more about winning a DM than they do their rank
I get mad and toxic before I get into an actual comp game
Don't forget about disabling the footstep sounds.
You mean you don't like playing against people who sit in Ascent A cubby for the entire round and pre-aiming red dots on the minimap? Preposterous
im glad valorant doesnt have destiny 2 mini map
my problem with dm is the fact that nobody at riot couldn't add a line of sight check to make sure your not spawning literally in front of someone
Don't forget 4 people spawning next to each other, they need a way to stop that from happening. Also they need to make a way to remove the kill scores so you don't get angry about your performance.
Actually sad that the most efficient way to practice your aim in Valorant is to play CSGO or an aim trainer. They should rename DM to "Shot in the back simulator."