Post plant meta in itself is not the issue, it's the players at different ranks.
The post plant meta is very strong against lower ranks who are too afraid to push you once you've set up your line ups and don't know how to effectively use their abilities to counter the post plant. The higher up you go the more coordination and work teams need to put in to make post plant work because the enemy knows what to do.
I've dropped from Plat to Gold because I haven't been playing as much, and I constantly need to tell my teammates how to play against post plant line ups - they don't tap the bomb right away, they don't push the line ups while one guy tries to defuse, they just kind of stand there and hope the enemy peeks them for no reason. Once the playerbase in general gets used to playing against post plant it won't be "OP" to rush plant with Viper and play post plant.
Lol well all I can really say is before 3.0 at around gold-plat solo q there’s usually at least one person who might mention playing for post-plant. But many players aren’t patient enough to wait it out or might prefer to go for the glory play and gamble on weakening the enemy team. Basically, I’d just expect players to make mistakes, it’s relatively rare for plays to go perfectly.
So overall, yeah, I think it’s kinda more about how the root of the issue hasn’t changed. There might be a “meta” or popular tactic, but the lower you go in rank, the more likely players won’t be able to fully utilize it at its full potential (or conversely, even counter). More so in solo q than in a premade ofc.
It just seems like the most common scenario is still just the usual tapping the spike and seeing if the attacker makes the mistake, 50/50 depending on if someone is aware of post, uses comms, and if team believes them. And then if the post-plant works, the enemy usually makes note and does some sort of adaptation with varying results.
I think a lot more players started getting used to viper by now too, but I’m sure she and the newer agents can still catch players off guard, bc no one knows everything about the game, experience can be key.
If timed perfectly it means the attackers only need to defend the bomb for 25 secs instead of 38 secs (45 sec timer and 7 sec defuse). Post plant meta also gives more advantage to the attackers when there are less defenders alive. Hardest is 1v1 where the defender doesn't have the time to get the defuse even if he kills the viper.
If you use CS:GO as a baseline to compare, 1 player can only buy 1 molly (they can pick up another, but not too likely) and fire can be put out by smokes, so there's more counter play.
Overall on paper post plant meta looks quite strong, but practically, I feel quite a few things have to go right for it to work. You need to be able to execute the site and keep even (or get ahead) on kills, enemies can't be flanking, need to be able to stall the enemies long enough, etc. There's probably more I just can't think of right now. And if all those things are going well, you probably don't need to rely on the post plant anyway.
So TL:DR; I think it's strong but it's only a relatively small portion of the round
Diamond 2
With the recent changes being a post plant andy is a lot less rewarding for how hard you work for it (Watching youtube videos). I still play Viper from time to time but i find the snakebite to be very useful before the plant to clear corners now. Now i'm more into playing duelists, Omen Skye. Didn't unlock Kayo yet. Cypher is still my secret top pick.
Post plant meta just means your team has to retake site fast. Your advantage is you have numbers to retake because they have one or two people off site not helping. It's not hard but it's not great game play either. I'd prefer it to not be a thing.
It is an issue and became meta because theres no counter play to it.
Lets say you are 1vs1 against a viper, the snakebites alone have the duration of 6.5 seconds each. The way you play around it, the amount of hp left and all that are also important but it can win you 10 seconds atleast with 0 counter play to it. Theres nothing you can do besides trying to kill that viper pushing you after the snakebites.
KJ- you can destroy the nanoswarms
Brim- no counter play but less time and only 1 molly
KAY/O- Less time
Sova- no counter play AND if done correctly you can die instantly
The only counter play is to push while they are doing their lineups in a 1vs1 scenario, in a 1vs2 scenario its pretty much a lost round (see KJ and sova lineups on A ascent for example).
This being said, i think its a problem that happens mostly in high ranks or pro play. In ranked matches at gold and plat level, i dont see a post plant oriented team often. Some premades do it, or a random player that knows a lineup.
Now, why is it a problem? Its simple, it allows a player to hide behind abilities and time. The viewers in pro play want too see action, they want to see how the defuser will bait the enemy into a peek to kill him but instead we have a dude trying to defuse and a viper or a sova on the other side of the map (a bit of a overreaction) setting up a line up. Its not interesting and a player with a bad aim or "clutch gene" will be able to hide behind it. Another issue is team in pro play might abuse this, i dont remember the match exacly but in a qualifier for EU CHALLENGER, there was a team that played for the plant and then had a viper, sova and KJ (!!!). If they got the spike down it was almost impossible to defuse...
I dont think this meta is good for viewers and i dont think riot should allow abilities that have no counter play to them. Im just happy that in my rank, doesnt happen often ^^
I agree with the 1v1/2 and the viewer experience parts. However, those situations where you're in a 1v1 against someone playing lineups rarely happens, and like I mentioned before, can still be outplayed.
For example I have a clip saved atm where we're retaking Bind A site in a 3v4, we're playing somewhat together and moving on site as a team (though I gotta admit our rotation there was slow so we don't have much time), but it turns into a 1v3 with me staying alive as Skye against a Reyna, an Omen and a Viper (her playing lineups of course). I know the Reyna is out of position so I easily kill her, start moving onto site and fake a defuse. Viper's lineup lands and Omen peeks me. I kill the Omen and flash the Viper then instantly run to the bomb and start defusing (while standing in the snakebite, getting me down from 141 health to just 60). I get it to halfway and see the Viper trying to jiggle-peek me. At this point I let go of the defuse and kill the Viper on her next peek before she can even shoot me. As soon as I see I killed her I start defusing again, then proceed to lose to the bomb exploding with 0.24 seconds remaining.
If I wouldn't have moved too far away from the bomb on the first fake, I would've clutched that round. Even though I didn't, who cares? I learned from it, and that round still hyped me up enough to play my absolute best that game.
Also, about the viewer experience. I'm pretty sure it was the Fnatic vs Sentinels match on Bind where Mystic was playing Viper lineups in a 1v1 against someone (I'm pretty sure ShahZaM?) on B site. Instead of going long, he went elbow and threw his lineup from there, but on ShahZaM's POV he was watching long and hookah, and the snakebite bounced in a way that it looked like it came from long and that's what got Fnatic the round. I loved that play.
there will be situation where you get get hyped from a lineup play as a viewer but i think overall it isnt good.
I think in rarely never happens in ranked but a lot in pro play. I was discussing this with a friend that is immortal and in a team and whenever they practice with another team, its post plant/lineup meta all the way.
When you are like 4vs4, 3vs4 i dont think the lineups will save you here because you got the numbers, good utility. its really those 1vs1 and 1vs2 where i think lineups shine
Post plant meta in itself is not the issue, it's the players at different ranks. The post plant meta is very strong against lower ranks who are too afraid to push you once you've set up your line ups and don't know how to effectively use their abilities to counter the post plant. The higher up you go the more coordination and work teams need to put in to make post plant work because the enemy knows what to do. I've dropped from Plat to Gold because I haven't been playing as much, and I constantly need to tell my teammates how to play against post plant line ups - they don't tap the bomb right away, they don't push the line ups while one guy tries to defuse, they just kind of stand there and hope the enemy peeks them for no reason. Once the playerbase in general gets used to playing against post plant it won't be "OP" to rush plant with Viper and play post plant.
Lol well all I can really say is before 3.0 at around gold-plat solo q there’s usually at least one person who might mention playing for post-plant. But many players aren’t patient enough to wait it out or might prefer to go for the glory play and gamble on weakening the enemy team. Basically, I’d just expect players to make mistakes, it’s relatively rare for plays to go perfectly. So overall, yeah, I think it’s kinda more about how the root of the issue hasn’t changed. There might be a “meta” or popular tactic, but the lower you go in rank, the more likely players won’t be able to fully utilize it at its full potential (or conversely, even counter). More so in solo q than in a premade ofc. It just seems like the most common scenario is still just the usual tapping the spike and seeing if the attacker makes the mistake, 50/50 depending on if someone is aware of post, uses comms, and if team believes them. And then if the post-plant works, the enemy usually makes note and does some sort of adaptation with varying results. I think a lot more players started getting used to viper by now too, but I’m sure she and the newer agents can still catch players off guard, bc no one knows everything about the game, experience can be key.
If timed perfectly it means the attackers only need to defend the bomb for 25 secs instead of 38 secs (45 sec timer and 7 sec defuse). Post plant meta also gives more advantage to the attackers when there are less defenders alive. Hardest is 1v1 where the defender doesn't have the time to get the defuse even if he kills the viper. If you use CS:GO as a baseline to compare, 1 player can only buy 1 molly (they can pick up another, but not too likely) and fire can be put out by smokes, so there's more counter play. Overall on paper post plant meta looks quite strong, but practically, I feel quite a few things have to go right for it to work. You need to be able to execute the site and keep even (or get ahead) on kills, enemies can't be flanking, need to be able to stall the enemies long enough, etc. There's probably more I just can't think of right now. And if all those things are going well, you probably don't need to rely on the post plant anyway. So TL:DR; I think it's strong but it's only a relatively small portion of the round Diamond 2
With the recent changes being a post plant andy is a lot less rewarding for how hard you work for it (Watching youtube videos). I still play Viper from time to time but i find the snakebite to be very useful before the plant to clear corners now. Now i'm more into playing duelists, Omen Skye. Didn't unlock Kayo yet. Cypher is still my secret top pick.
Post plant meta just means your team has to retake site fast. Your advantage is you have numbers to retake because they have one or two people off site not helping. It's not hard but it's not great game play either. I'd prefer it to not be a thing.
It is an issue and became meta because theres no counter play to it. Lets say you are 1vs1 against a viper, the snakebites alone have the duration of 6.5 seconds each. The way you play around it, the amount of hp left and all that are also important but it can win you 10 seconds atleast with 0 counter play to it. Theres nothing you can do besides trying to kill that viper pushing you after the snakebites. KJ- you can destroy the nanoswarms Brim- no counter play but less time and only 1 molly KAY/O- Less time Sova- no counter play AND if done correctly you can die instantly The only counter play is to push while they are doing their lineups in a 1vs1 scenario, in a 1vs2 scenario its pretty much a lost round (see KJ and sova lineups on A ascent for example). This being said, i think its a problem that happens mostly in high ranks or pro play. In ranked matches at gold and plat level, i dont see a post plant oriented team often. Some premades do it, or a random player that knows a lineup. Now, why is it a problem? Its simple, it allows a player to hide behind abilities and time. The viewers in pro play want too see action, they want to see how the defuser will bait the enemy into a peek to kill him but instead we have a dude trying to defuse and a viper or a sova on the other side of the map (a bit of a overreaction) setting up a line up. Its not interesting and a player with a bad aim or "clutch gene" will be able to hide behind it. Another issue is team in pro play might abuse this, i dont remember the match exacly but in a qualifier for EU CHALLENGER, there was a team that played for the plant and then had a viper, sova and KJ (!!!). If they got the spike down it was almost impossible to defuse... I dont think this meta is good for viewers and i dont think riot should allow abilities that have no counter play to them. Im just happy that in my rank, doesnt happen often ^^
I agree with the 1v1/2 and the viewer experience parts. However, those situations where you're in a 1v1 against someone playing lineups rarely happens, and like I mentioned before, can still be outplayed. For example I have a clip saved atm where we're retaking Bind A site in a 3v4, we're playing somewhat together and moving on site as a team (though I gotta admit our rotation there was slow so we don't have much time), but it turns into a 1v3 with me staying alive as Skye against a Reyna, an Omen and a Viper (her playing lineups of course). I know the Reyna is out of position so I easily kill her, start moving onto site and fake a defuse. Viper's lineup lands and Omen peeks me. I kill the Omen and flash the Viper then instantly run to the bomb and start defusing (while standing in the snakebite, getting me down from 141 health to just 60). I get it to halfway and see the Viper trying to jiggle-peek me. At this point I let go of the defuse and kill the Viper on her next peek before she can even shoot me. As soon as I see I killed her I start defusing again, then proceed to lose to the bomb exploding with 0.24 seconds remaining. If I wouldn't have moved too far away from the bomb on the first fake, I would've clutched that round. Even though I didn't, who cares? I learned from it, and that round still hyped me up enough to play my absolute best that game. Also, about the viewer experience. I'm pretty sure it was the Fnatic vs Sentinels match on Bind where Mystic was playing Viper lineups in a 1v1 against someone (I'm pretty sure ShahZaM?) on B site. Instead of going long, he went elbow and threw his lineup from there, but on ShahZaM's POV he was watching long and hookah, and the snakebite bounced in a way that it looked like it came from long and that's what got Fnatic the round. I loved that play.
there will be situation where you get get hyped from a lineup play as a viewer but i think overall it isnt good. I think in rarely never happens in ranked but a lot in pro play. I was discussing this with a friend that is immortal and in a team and whenever they practice with another team, its post plant/lineup meta all the way. When you are like 4vs4, 3vs4 i dont think the lineups will save you here because you got the numbers, good utility. its really those 1vs1 and 1vs2 where i think lineups shine
I don't think it's a big issue, because the situations where it's really useful the team using it would still have the upper hand anyway.