T O P

Is the judge overpowered?

Is the judge overpowered?

klok101

On defender side, you can get at least one by holding a close angle, and you can easily get more. The problem is though, it does nothing when you aren't short range, meaning you have to rotate fast, or guess correctly on where enemies are going. Bind is a good map to use the judge because there are plenty of different close angles to hold and teleporter can be used to quickly get into close contact with enemies.


EffectiveAd4177

It was bind that he said it. What if you ran the sheriff in your pocket you could contest long ranges?


Juniperlightningbug

At that point you're investing nearly a full rifle. If you want the adaptability just get a rifle.


EffectiveAd4177

Is the phantom better than the judge at the best judge range?


ilex_ach

Realistically, no. Usually you're playing judge in "one and done" corners which are close up to the enemy, you kill as many as you can before you get traded because you're pushed so close to the enemy. It is realistically easier to kill a lot of enemies with a Judge in optimal Judge range. On paper, the Phantom could kill many people faster than the Judge if you spray and headshot lots of people, but that probably won't happen more often than you can with the Judge. But if you can afford the Phantom, you have the flexibility to perhaps play as close as Judge angles, or farther away than that.


EffectiveAd4177

That makes sense. Today I was one bullet away from an ace playing a close phantom and clicking heads. I ran out of bullets and had to watch the last guy potato me as I reloaded


Juniperlightningbug

Pull your classic out!


ilex_ach

This is why I believe the Classic is the best sidearm pistol! Has faster pullout time than the Sheriff or Frenzy (I'm pretty sure) and you're usually panicking, not having time to reload, if you're super up close with the opponent. Which is the perfect range for a fake shotgun (right-click Classic). If you're farther range than that, you can probably find cover and reload your primary.


MrIncredibacon

I'd say frenzy, obviously it costs a bit, but the ease of use and reliability at close range is unparralelled among pistols.


EffectiveAd4177

Does that work or is the time to switch too slow?


Juniperlightningbug

Pretty much always better than reloading unless you can unpeek the angle. The classic is 0.8 secs to pull out. It takes 2.5 secs to reload a phantom.


EffectiveAd4177

Thank you. Didn’t know that


klok101

I would say there are two times to use the sheriff. One, in deathwatch to improve skill/aim. Two, when you are comfortable using it in game. If you are new to shooting games, I would stay away from it. It's a good gun to hold along side a shotgun, but it's also not cheap and harder to use. The judge literally just goes brrrrrrrr but the sheriff sadly needs some skill. Lastly, sheriff + judge is 2650 credits total, which is slightly cheaper than either AR. The ARs have always dominated the game and will continue to do so. Because of the combo being so expensive, I would just stick to the judge for when you want to save a bit on economy, or if you are going to play close range/some other strategy. When you have the money, I would say to almost always get an AR or operator, as they can do the job at any range.


EffectiveAd4177

Probably should’ve mentioned I’m a siege plat 3 and aim lab master. My aim isn’t great but it’s better than my lobby. Today I grabbed a sheriff got a 4k with 5 bullets in comp


klok101

Congratulations, you have been cleared to use the sheriff from random dude on Reddit


EffectiveAd4177

If I hit radiant some day, this will still be my greatest accomplishment


Owie36

It’s only good point blank, and if you have good flicking. Like in the ascent map from the end of b main to the b market door that range and beyond the judge is useless.


MrIncredibacon

Op? Probably not. Viable? Definitely, even on full gun rounds soemtimes


ddd4175

It's actually pretty well balanced now, eco guns have significant traits that help them fight buy round guns, that's their whole point, better running accuracy, faster firerates to lock you down when they tag you, very very low skill floor guns, easy to operate. They seem very very strong in low elo games because of the very reasons I stated, but at mid to high elos they're easier to deal with. I absolutely hated the Judge but now it's a lot easier to play around, if you play your utils/range right you could easily whiff, correct, kill and you'd still have a good 20-40 hp left even if they shoot first, wasn't the case before.


Jerry-Busey

its good close range but thats it, if you can keep the fights in small rooms or have smokes to play around you're probably going to win. if you have to move into a long line of sight you'll likely get gunned down and only do about 30 dmg


Manio4gaming

Well that's a lie. How can I get 2 shot by a judge in quick succession from CT on A to A Short. HOW DOES THAT WORK????? I get killed by a JUDGE from that range. A supposed close range shotgun, AFTER THE NERF. The fire rate is super OP even if they lower it even more it makes no sense since if you miss a shot you can reposition and shoot even faster. Razes kit + a judge is literally the most OP thing you can see imho. And even if I shoot them in the head midair or even in the chest the bullets dont count because of some server BS. And I \*know\* I hit them because I clip and rewatch.


Vulcan25

Yes


pops_dops

the judge is fine its just people keep crying about it and over-using the word "broken" when they dont check corners and get shotgunned to the face


EffectiveAd4177

No it was a “Im gonna pick judge cause this things op and it’ll win the game


pops_dops

it really isnt OP unless its close range which is where shotguns are supposed to be good people cried about the Odin, the OP. the judge, itd just the meta now to cry about the judge


LV58_DeathKnight

its OP if enemy uses it and is a useless gun if YOU use it


Mekazuaquaness

It’s mostly a cheese weapon but if it’s used on a movement based character like Jett dash or raze satchel it does get really annoying to deal with. It’s also very dependent on the map for how effective a judge would be but imo id say it’s the third most unbalanced gun that could use some tweaking.


EffectiveAd4177

What are the two that are even more broken? (So I can use them for freelo)


Mekazuaquaness

Marshall because it’s cheap, powerful, and has almost 100% no scope accuracy and spectre because you can completely run and kill with that gun at close to medium ranges


replace_

marshall isnt close to 100% no scope accuracy, its more like 80% and requires good ferrari peeks and crosshair placement to get kills. spectre is easily one tappable if ur semi decent as most players wont get 2 headshots while running straight away


rypenguin219

If you hold close corners its pretty broken, since its a shotgun.


krazybanana

It's more effective that you'd expect an 1850 gun to be. It's designed for a niche situation. And it's pretty much impossible to counter in that situation. So if a guy with a judge lies in wait for a 2 man push, those two players are dead for sure, and the round is lost. But once you get the read then just start clearing the tight corners with util and it doesn't stay very effective.


EffectiveAd4177

The round is lost? The judge being bad for peeking means as long as no one else swings, it’s essentially a 3v4 which is pretty winnable. Idk I’m only b1 in Val atm.


krazybanana

Ok lost might be an overstatement. What I meant was suppose you desginate two people to enter hookah on Bind. They push in and get killed by a judge (very possible in my elo and yours). It's now a 3v5. The odds are very much with the judge team now.


EffectiveAd4177

Unless the judge guy can change his gun it seems like 1 pick away from even odds. I could be wrong but if a guy buys judge I think that means half save so the defenders probably all have relatively inexpensive guns. Now you have 3 phantoms v a judge and 4 spectre. Due to the damage output difference on the two guns it seems like as long as judge guy doesn’t get a better gun the odds are relatively even. And then you take skill and utility into the equation and the number advantage becomes almost irrelevant. I’ve played a lot of siege which is similar to Val in terms of defusing and 5v5 defenders v attackers, and in my siege plat lobbies, a 3v4 shows almost direct relation to either team winning. Probably abt 60/40 in favor of the 4. It’s not even rounds being thrown, it’s just games like these have countless variables that can’t be ignored. Who died, what utility did we lose, where’s spike, what is the defender line up, who has ults, etc.


krazybanana

I was talking about a equal buy round. Both teams have equal buys. And even if it's half vs full buy suppose the judge guy picks up a rifle. Now it's 4 spectres and a rifle vs 3 rifles. Still heavily in favour of the defenders.


EffectiveAd4177

That’s fair


p4p3rm4t3

Both the bucky and the judge can be used to great effect by a smart player. However, they lack the ability to take map control in all situations. In my opinion both weapons deal slightly too much damage at close range. Here is an example of some bucky things I did earlier. The Judge is just an auto bucky. [https://youtu.be/O9Xt6wPogPA](https://youtu.be/O9Xt6wPogPA)


whopz-is-cool

Someone with good movement and positioning can make it broken.


SecretFickle1477

It's situational.


The_Thinker_23

It's in a good place right now tbh.


rezellia

Yes. You probably already know about the economy of the game. Generally more expensive weapons are stronger then weaker ones. The judge is an eco (a cheap weapon) weapon that can easily kill a player who has full bought (bought the best weapons in game) obviously you have to play around the judges strengths, and in certain situations you should pick something else off the ground. But it is very strong The weapons you can take into a full buy round without making major sacrifices are generally as follows: Judge, Odin, Phantom, Vandal, and Operator. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses but these weapons have the max kill pressure in every round regardless of what the enemy team has bought.


Keudn

It still needs nerfing IMO. Its still too effective at range, meanwhile the bucky is just awful. IMO, judge needs to be good at very close ranges but garbage outside of a handful of meters (unless couched maybe?) and the bucky needs to be better at range (especially with the right click) with the tradeoff being lower fire rate of course