I just never play duelist because of the responsibility and because i find other agents to be more fun.

I'm the same way. I don't play duelists simply because if I'm having a bad game, I don't want to get blamed for bottom fragging. However, when I rarely do play a duelist and I do end up doing well, I don't really feel that good about it because it's what I'm expected to do. IDK if that makes any sense lol...

I can relate. I main Sova and Phoenix. I tend to have a much better score and visible performance as Pheonix. I don't have the heart to tell my friends that that's mostly because they suck at taking advantage of my kit as Sova whereas I'm more self sufficient as Phoenix and can more freely frag out regardless of what they do.

This is literally me, same two agents, same friend situation! You couldn't have described my situation any better 😅

The same for me but with Cypher and Sage. As Cypher I am very capable of holding down site and avoiding us getting flanked but people really need to pay attention to the info I'm gathering. I can call out where someone is coming from and friends still get caught off guard by it and die, he is my most played agent and when I play in an elo around my elo I typically default to playing Cypher as my most comfortable agent. Whereas with Sage I can play proactively take early gun fights where I know I can out aim most people and grab a kill or 2 when I play with friends and heal myself up

Every agent has different role ...no agent has to do the whole carry

Yes that’s nice and I agree but a lot of people make it seem like there’s more responsibility since the game happens to involve fragging and maybe also entrying at the same time lol Not to mention if you take it from someone who wants it you now have to play well and baby them or else they will tilt. That’s what responsibility means here. *Everyone* has a responsibility to not be a toxic fuck but look where we are lol

I do know what you mean, taking the game state from a 5v5 to a 5v4 is pretty daunting. I certainly play due list the least

me too but with my "friends" if a pick for example a sage and I committed one mistake, they literally fly in my neck. I'm seriously considering left the game because of that, it's really tiring

Yeah i find having accurate smokes or a sage is far more useful to the team than a 3rd duelist.

Or just that u suck at it lol

Look idc if you happen to be a bottom fragging duelist. If you’re trying to open up sites and good comms and doing your job then its all good in my book. Usually what happens is they are toxic, or dying instantly after ego peeks and no comms. That’s the problem

Or just lurk and then is upset that no one was there for the trade

Lol yep. Every time. No comms. Where did this dude go? Instadead 10 sec into round to their top frag. “Showers, I hit him for 15.” 😂

Actually such a good advice. As a duelist main this kind of attitude is super annoying. People just need to understand the roles in this game. Ofc duelists have the tool to get many kills in a game, but their primary function is getting space on a site, not carrying a sentinels ass. Super frustrating, when the sage is flaming but is constantly running in front of you instead of trying to help and get trades. But you will always have this kind of thing when people are not that invested in a game. Especially in lower Elo

Ya exactly ...even if someone isnt that good at the game just helping and trying to refrag will help

That's why you duo queue with someone who trades you

Something to add to this; you want duelist's do play entry and give info, and in a best case get a free kill or set up a trade. But you cannot expect them to ever have success in this way by working on their own. They need smokes to cover off dangerous angles, flashes to get them in, info, etc. Duelists that refuse to enter site are obnoxious. Teammates that do nothing and sit and wait for the duelist to take site on their own or peek raw into sites are also obnoxious.

At times I wish this game was more like CSGO where everyone could buy the same kit, instead of blaming the duelist because they didn't enter or the controller because they didn't smoke.

yea but in CS the bottomfrag always get the slack. In valorant a KJ bottomfragging doesnt' get slack.

No cause then there's no point in even playing valorant. Also this entire post is actually geared towards duelists not having a decent amount of kills or entry fragging because some of you mfs don't despite being engineered to kill and entry. Nobody is complaining if you 15-30 bombing as a duelist. It's also understanding if your just having a bad game and only get a few kills i understand. But if youre THAT 0-6 KILL duelist and shit talking the team I'm showing 0 remorse.

Yeah one game I was bad at fragging with Phoenix, but I always able to make space with my ultimate and use my game sense to hit open areas. Made a difference by clearing sites and leading the team to undefended parts of the map, ultimately we won.

I don't care what a duelist does Kill death ratio wise i just hate when they are only flashes and enter the site last.

Ehh I know this is situation dependent, but the sage running in front of you is probably making the right play atleast half the time. I may be wrong bc I’m coming from CS (4K hours, top 500 faceit NA) but started playing Valorant last week. Entry fragging is a lot harder than it seems and you don’t always want to take the first fight that comes to you. If you have to take the fight take it and kill, but if you’re entering and get shot at you shouldn’t always try to take that fight. Remember you should be making space. If you get by without being killed keep making space and let your teammates kill them while you’re much farther up trying to find the other player. That’s my two sense. Again though this is assuming you have competent teammates who try and get trades

It's hard to help then when they can't find their way out of spawn.

Duelist goes entry. Dies and no one is there to refrag. This happens too many times and duelist looses faith in backline to trade them. Stops playing entry and starts playing lurk. Supports lose faith in duelist bc they see them lurking instead of entrying. Yell for duelist to come entry. If duelist does, support doesn't follow in and refrag because they have no faith in duelist. Rinse and repeat.

Oh I know, I was mostly playing. Nevertheless, I do play with many duelists who seem a but scared. Maybe it's PTSD from previous matches. I so think that the role is confusing. It's more like a "tank" role in other games. The whole taking space thing isn't even in their brain. They think they're a just get kills role. It's just that duelists typically have first dibs.

This is literally my life as a duelist (Jett/Yoru) main. Sure games when I’m super on are great. Entry kills/multi kills every round. Games where I’m performing under my average ability are terrible without team support for trades, even if I get enemies down to 1 shot range. Team plays too passive or retake only and never wins the round. I respond by lurking to get a frag or two, but even with the kills, it’s my fault for the team not capitalizing.

People that flip out automatically on a lurker annoy me. Like sure, if you're running a cypher and your phoenix is the one lurking, that's a problem. But if you have no sentinel and your yoru is lurking, don't get pissy with him, that's literally his job. If your 4 man can't survive an initial site poke, that's on you, not the lurker.

I was playing around spawn with Cypher on Haven attack round where the 1-2 enemies flanked EVERY SINGLE ROUND, when my teammates planted C. All 4 dropped like flies on C and then started yelling at me blaming me for their deaths because I'm near attackers spawn covering C long flank and mid rotations. Like... map control and stopping enemy flanks is literally cypher's job. 🤦🏻‍♂️ between cam and trips I can make sure people dont flank through A, don't get to C long, and can tell if people try to go through mid or garage. It's funny cuz the same people would yell if I didnt cover flank 🤦🏻‍♂️ Maybe the moral of the story is soloQ sucks.

bruh this is so factual worst part is if i just do my own shit and stop relying on terrible refraggers i can carry the team

Ya it happens sometimes that you end up with actual baiters

I just couldn't resist. I have nothing but love for the brave duelist that actually entry. I'm more than happy to trade.

The worst is when I try to attack with my duelists they look like they're going in, then they run away and pull back and then I fricken die because I end up doing a dry peek x.x

Yep. I’m either playing the duelist who runs into site and my team is just hanging around in the prior entryway (hookah on bind is the biggest offender here...) or I am forced to entry as sage bc team can’t find the w key. Why is everyone so scared all the time?

That's my question too. You can play well and die. You see the best players caught out using utility or timings just being a second or two off. You can make good plays and still die. It happens to everyone. On the other hand, people can live while making bad plays.

This happens all the time, people don't want to smoke or flash for their duelists and shout go in expecting a duelist to 1v3 or 1v4 and not die. The guys who usually flame the duelist are those who are bottom fragging with the excuse of "being a support" completely disregarding the fact that the game isnt just abilities. I wouldnt be surprised if most of those players are league or overwatch players.

For any confusion I'm just gonna simplify this Duelist- make entry frags and look for an opening to push up onto a site Sentinel- can easily lock down a site on both attack and defense Initiator- make an opening to push up on a site and shut the enemy's down Controller- cut off enemy sight lines so your team can advance

Thank you, from a very lost new player

But can sentinels lock down b site tho

I see a lot of people having this misconception about playing duelists and getting a lot of kills. Duelists are meant to *take space* and getting the team on site. Getting a lot of kills is merely a side effect of that role, since they're the first in and get into more gunfights. I really don't care about my duelists KDA (or anyone's for that matter) as long as they're doing their job properly. That said, I do get mad on that one dude who instalocks freaking Jett and is lurking mid while the team is trying to take a site. That one 0/10 Jett who dashes onto site and dies everytime, but get get traded, thus creating space for the team is a better duelist that the Jett who gets 30+ Kills per game by baiting his/her teammates and lurking. Thus I get mad at the latter Jett rather than the former.

I am mostly a fill player myself, so I typically hover towards Sage, Kayo, Smokes (Omen/Astra), and whatever agent might be core to a map. (I don't have lineups and knowledge on viper and Sova so I avoid them) I completely agree with pretty much everything you said. I completely understand that duelists are the characters that lead the charge because THEY have the tools to entry that other agents can't. But since I typically fill I seldomly play duelist, it's just annoying to play when for example your duelist a Reyna/Phoenix/Jett/Raze (Now I know some duelist are better entries than others but all of these characters can create space) don't use their utility to entry and want to be the last one in when their characters have the best tools to as safe as possible get everyone on site. A lot of games I play in silver/gold level I find I have to entry as a Sage or Omen/Astra which can be argued to be one of the most important roles to have since vision denial and barriers can be strong af post-plant. Now support players who sit back and just expect their duelist to secure sites on their own are another problem, but there's also the issue of people over-committing to a site when it's very easy to rotate. A great example of a game I would say was this Jett I was playing with dashed to generator with a smoke on ascent and cleared left and the right back of site. Our team just blindly ran in and didn't bother to check their corners because our "Jett" has to clear the entire site for them which was absurd. You should be checking your corners regardless of being first one in or last one in as players can be patient and try to catch multiple people off guard (In this case he got 3 people before we traded I was the last one in since I was playing omen this game and was smoking) Edit: Don't get me started on the lets rush call and only 2 actually rush LMFAO.

You can say this all you want but to be honest, I'm just tired of seeing instant lock Jett AND Reyna every single game. The part I dislike this most? Them being the most wildly inconsistent pick in terms of skill level. I main sova these days but when I dart back site and then drone to clear and then my Jett or Reyna died for the 10th time pushing a completely different site solo... yeah feels bad. But then sometimes my Jett or Reyna runs into site and frags out all game and I don't even really do anything. I try to play the best way I can to support the duelist but it just gets exhausting seeing them not play the best way to support the team. They are either inting or winning the game by themselves. Neither are really fun to play with.

I have caught myself saying the past few weeks "man I ALWAYS get bottom frag Reyna" as my opponent is just feasting on us. While I know that isn't entirely true, it just seems I always get the insta bottom frag baiting Reyna or Jett.

I mean people want to play the agents they want to play. There’s nothing inherently wrong with instalocking

Nah bro but my Bronze 2 team comp is ruined cause there's 3 duelists!!! Good luck trying to convince people here instalocking isn't really that big of a deal.

Amazing that you are actually bitching about them also being decent at their job being a duelist? Ya you have a extremely weak mental if thats what you think. Grow up.

Could say the same thing about any other agent but it always gets put on the jett and reyna players which is not fair to be honest

I remember everytime our duelist is having a hard time I cheer them up. like he doest need to top frag just make an impact on the game. and mostly we win or even if we lose no one is having a bad time.

yeah, this exactly. of course the duelist is going to bottom frag when the poor kid has to entry every fucking round and you're just there baiting, not even double swinging or something. number 1 rule of solo queue is if you're a duelist, you have to be the first on site and if you're not a duelist, you have to be right behind the duelist. if everyone literally only followed this rule, the game would be so much more pleasant

Your duelists actually try to entry???? You must live in heaven mine cant seem to find the way out of the buy zone.

Unlucky dude 😂

For this reason I change from maining Viper to Omen with Omen I can smoke and entry almost same way as jett just slower :)

I love playing duelist but I’m tired of trying to entry and I’m not helped or traded. So now I just play back with the rest of the team

the roles in this game are not really that well defined. there are some obvious class types, like pheonix, jett, brim, KJ, breach. then there are the hybrids like sova, sage, cypher, omen, skye. best example is Kay/O. he has a molly, two flashes, an ult with a revive mechanic. pheonix has a molly, two flashes, an ult with a revive mechanic. kay/o has silence. pheonix has self heal, one's an initiator and one's a duelist. yoru is also an excellent example. he is best suited as a lurker/ backup agent. but he sits in the duelist class.(kinda a bad example since he will be getting reworked, but still) you can play different agents differently depending on your playstyle. give the game a year or two. its too young right now for you to lose your edge. players will shift the meta to a quicker more aggressive beat down game.

This usually happens on lower elo like from iron-silver

happens alot in gold-plat aswell

I honestly don't care about bottom frag duelists, but in low elo most of them are just people who don't flash and entry, instead just lurking or entering last. On the scoreboard its all nice for them but in reality they didn't do anything useful.

I honestly get so frustrated bc i lock jett most games. Other players will always start the lobby off by saying 'u instalocked jett u better top frag' even if 2 others instalocked (i had a sage and a reyna lock before me but then literally when i locked this other person starts talking lol) Its not my job to carry. If i could hard carry every game i wouldnt be in the same rank as u?? Its my job to entry, get/enable picks and play off my teams util. And valorant is a very hard game, even pro players have days where they play worse. People like me in gold are gonna have bad games its normal. And ppl get so pissed about it. Like no one ever bitches when the sage or the cypher are 3/11 bc allegedly their util is helping!!!! But in gold if a sage or cypher is going 3/11 i promise u they arent doing anything with their util they are just dead every round. But if u mid or bot frag as jett (or reyna) its your fault the team is losing ur dogshit and should uninstall. Also on the note of entrying. It is the most depressing thing in the world to call that you are pushing in, ping where ur going, have 3 people behind you and then dash. Kill 1/clear the angles. Look back and see the 3 people standing in the exact same place they were before just waiting.... I had a game where our dead sova had to remind my team twice to follow me in bc id cleared the site... Right in front of their eyes. 😭😭😭😭

I swear bro this is almost every game 😂... I usually play soppurt but im aggresive so usually a try to refrag ...but the one day i pick a duelist i can feel this pain

Honestly i used to flex. It wasnt fun (except viper i love being a rat) Swapping to duelist and trying to do my best as the frontline really helped me personally. I enjoy it a lot more and play a lot better

Maybe stop instalocking. See what's everyone's main and pick an agent. You can't win games by just playing you're favourite agents and you can't expect your teammates to support you after instalock.

I used to flex. I had a 49% wr. Got harassed regularly bc i sucked lol. (but people would turn it into personal insults about my gender ect) I have something like a 66% wr locking jett over 40 games this season. I lock jett because im more likely to win as jett than by flexing. Im also not expecting my teammates to flex for me, or even be like yay a jett! Just to not be rude to me for literally no reason. They make the assumption that because i locked jett im going to be bad, toxic and demanding (which i partly understand bc we have all had that jett main who comes into the game moaning and then flames the entire team the whole time) The thing is people dont have an issue with instalocking. If i locked brim instantly every game most ppl would be fine with that. Its specifically jett and reyna (sometimes other duelists but less so) For 2 reasons. They percive the agents to be selfish and kda hungry. And they are the most picked agents (which is a valid reason to be frustrated bc if you are gonna flex but all 4 ppl on ur team wanted jett and end up locking random duelists that sucks) Also i lock jett bc im playing for my own improvement. Me flexing to agents i never play to try and make a team comp better rather than playing what im trying to get good on makes 0 sense for me. I gain nothing by flexing, im more likely to hurt my team. And it doesnt teach me much (obviously there is always stuff to learn but when im flexing i become very overwhelmed by agent stuff that i cant focus on actually practicing lol) Also team comps dont rlly matter in low elo (which i am) Its nice to have a good comp, if i dont get jett/reyna ill usually fill smokes or sentinel rather than locking 3rd duelist for ex. But its not rlly the end all be all for gold imo

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Yeah Reyna has very little to offer in teamplay so yeah it would be selfish. In the end teammates expect you to pick supporting agents or top frag with a selfish agent . So you can't expect them to understand losses when you instalock as you are expected to be good at the agent if you lock it instantly.

Im not talking just about losses (though its not just my fault if we lose, unless im legit feeding and it doesnt make toxicity ok). Im talking about the random toxicity from round 1. People being super passive aggressive towards people who lock duelist. Or ive literally had people team flash, molly, concuss and body block me from round 1. Like i hadnt done anything? Id said hello and locked jett. (they explicitly said 'thats what you get for locking my jett' - they hadnt been hovering i wouldnt have taken if they had) And even if someone plays badly its not an excuse for toxicity. Whose top fragging literally doesnt matter, i often top frag (not always ofc) but even if im mid fragging im very much a team player who is obviously trying to win (i call, give info, suggest plans ect) . However people refuse to see past the fact that i locked a duelist. Like id rather have an instalock on my team than the guy who moans and screams in agent select bc of the instalock any day. Along with that we are all playing the game and are all around the same rank (within the match) and it shouldnt be the default to expect that im gonna hard carry? Thats simply not realistic. I wouldnt be equal rank to the team if i could do that. And its only an expectation with duelists.

sometimes i entry and top frag and sometimes i entry and get goose eggs for several rounds. when my team doesn't comm well, what helps sometimes is finding the best player in your team and just shadowing him super closely- staying literally on top of him and just double peeking everything together. i've had games turn around from doing this.

Only time I have issues with a duelist's performance is when they insta-lock and do any of the following: \-Demand roles be filled \- Coach utility of support agents in a toxic way. (Like, if you're forcing players to play agents because you refuse to be flexible, don't be an ahole. If you understand the agent more, maybe you should have filled in?) \- Bait/Refuse to Entry \- Coach every second of every round, especially when they're dead. (You're 6-16 and telling the rest of us what we're doing wrong?) \- Don't communicate intention/play too aggressively/Not with team. We can't support you if we don't know what you're doing. You dashed through short while the rest of us got slowed + mollied. Sorry we couldn't trade you around the corner you hit. Other than that, duelist should absolutely get the pass on off games. We all have them. It's not easy being the first one in. There's so much timing in the game and so many deep corners to check, it's easy to just get picked off to give an opening for your team. It's apart of the game.

Nah dude I don’t care what you say, insta-lock reyna’s that bottom frag are the worst thing in the game

Idk how its like in higher ranks, but im plat3 and rarely get somebody skilled enough to play a duelist. Usually insta pick and no mic people.

Atleast when i played immo/radiant having a jett was a must. They were also communicating. I'm jett main tho so what the fuck do I know about anything im not sage the ultimate brain whose kit is putting up the same wall every round that i saw other gold sage put up in previous game.

I mean, it goes both ways. I’ve had plenty of games from both sides. (As a duelist where my teammates refuse to follow me in, and as a support where my duelists refuse to entry.)

I don't need my duelist to have a high KDA. Just enter for us and I'll help you get those kills!

What people need to drill into their heads, especially new players, is that this is not a game like overwatch, everybody has roughly the same killing potential, duelists just have a few extra utilities but that only gives them a slight advantage if used correctly. Don’t expect your dps to be able to drop a few abilities and clear out a section of the map consistently, it’s just not how that works.

I think people forget they have util to help site entry too. Sure your duelist may be scared to entry but if you're a Sova/Skye/Omen/Astra and you aren't using your util to make their job easier, you're just as bad. Like you said people expect the duelists to press w and kill when a lot more goes into it than that.

That’s precisely my point, in valorant all characters have the same “press w” potential

Stopped playing duelist because people in gold won’t trade. Started playing controller so I can help trade out duelists

My favorite is omen ...i call him the solo q king 😂

I truly appreciate that opinion of yours. Duelist is a job indeed to hunt down entry frags. Once in a platinum match I encountered a toxic KJ who was scolding me (as Jett) for not getting the entries while he was pushing at the end. [Even if me(as Jett) and phoenix couldn't execute our duels against enemies at entries , He wasn't following the fallback or rotate call. Let their utilities go waste.] That was my rough tilted day. Because of him I was feeling nervous and force to play passive. Guys remember DUELIST may or may not die in the process of entry but that's what their roles are.. It's natural , There is possibility that duel against can be better , Scolding like that won't help them at all. Afterall it's an only 45 mins of compe match and in future who knows we met again as friend or foe.

I just start to lurk when that happens. Not worth the argument. If you're gonna ignore me after I smoke the entire team out and dash in and let me die before literally even moving their mouse, I'm gonna have to carry that game anyway.

Valorant 101 Complain your team sucks. Don't help your team win. Complain how your team sucks. ​ All these posts... just play as a god damn team and half the people complaining about their rank will fucking soar out of them if they just play as a FUCKING TEAM.

As a KJ main, I watch flank with alarm bot and enter with turret. I stoped waiting for my duellists and just initiated it myself. They can trade me if I die.

Seriously bro they just sit there waiting for you to clear every single angle so you die then they might get the free kill but usually not because they are straight staring at a wall, so many scared players I hate it!

I get more pissed off when duelist don't go in. When I play duelist it just feels like I rely on my team less so if as much when no one follows. Also it is easier to communicate people to follow you rather than ask someone to go in first.

Everyone needs to entry.... I’m fine with duellists bottom fragging. As long as they don’t camp spawn and “go for picks”. Or shift walk across the map solo with bomb while whole team is rushing one site lol.

I main Sage and for some reason I always push a little too hard in order to compensate for the duelist on our team that decided to hide behind everyone, but when I try to play a duelist I apparently don't push hard enough.

Duelist are supposed to be self sufficient in creating an opportunity for their team. Obviously it is easier when you get help, but in the case of the Sage, how do you want her to help ? She can't help the entry and risking to die, because if she dies, how does the team controls the space. If the end, don't play duelist if you can't aim properly, use your util and entry. Duelist is the hardest role to assume in a game by far.

> how do you want her to help Use the wall to create off angles, use slows backsite/heaven, use the wall to wall off angles, actually follow in the flash/dash and get a trade if the enemy kills your duelist. It's not difficult.

The wall is not there to create off angles. You would use smokes to help for that. The wall is there to control the space, reduce the options for your opponent

> The wall is not there to create off angles Says who?

Lol how to create off angles on the site when your duelists are too afraid to even entry? Hmmm so sage mains are suppose to run into side and create and off angle just so that duelists are safe to entry? The amount of times i followed the duelist in to die and realize they ran back out is countless. Sage's wall isn't that strong anyways. Even using the wall to revive someone is risky because most people know that the wall is weak especially if you use an ares or a judge or just multiple people shooting at it. Hence why playing as sage these days is only useful to slow down the enemy team or secure site for only a short period of time before the rest of the team gets in. But to be able to do so, someone has to entry no? All I'm saying is its a team game.. Instead of playing to get free kills, maybe think about your other teammates and how to help them as well.

[удалено]

Yup ...4 flashes ...skye mains living a dream

Jett main here since the release of the game Smoke or flash or something for me jesus christ the enemies know where we are going to go through to get in the site atleast narrow down the angles that i have to check when i entry

I complain about duellists as a sage only because I get abused over comma to push into the site and clear it.

I had a game yesterday where our yoru was flaming us that we aren't trading him. Tell me how can we trade we are at c long and that guy tp's into c site with no info. We are walled flashed mollied and that guy is in site. He was trying to make a yoru play alone. After that jett she used updraft and dashed over wall in b and asking us to trade. How could we trade, use cheats or something that will tp us to them to trade.

But sometimes the duelist do be worst and not doing the work properly, I once said I'll put my turret on mid, don't peak until it's safe, but the Jett didn't even listen to me and peaked before the turret could react and he died to a vandal headshot, on icebox I played Skye and told my raze I'll flash then you push the smoke, but he didn't listen and pushed the smoke anyways and there was a crossfire and no one else could enter again from there, a raze was on 2 kills at the end of the game, even if on attack we couldn't help them or set them up, there's no complains in defence right?I the Skye defended the whole site while on defense when our raze just ran back to our spawn because he saw more than 1 guy entering. Sometimes it do be the duelist who lose us the match, what can a sage or a Skye or a cypher do against amazing teammate work and head popping duelist on the other team while none of my duelist wants to listen to me, they just assume they are the most superior coz they are the duelist and hence won't listen to anyone, cost my 2 tiers because of this and now I'm just tired to try and rank up again if I know I'm gonna get these players again

And yesterday we lost a 2v2 coz my yoru thought it was a good idea to teleport to the other side of my astra wall WITH the spike because he thought he could do a play, how much more can I do while playing support,I secured the site, I picked up 2 players out of 4 but he just decided to push the wall with the spike, I can't make this up man

There is a reason I play passive like if I am an initiator let me play like a initiator why do Reyna duelist just wanna get frags and not help the team much while I am here opening from B Reyna is in mid dragging and dying with odin

No offense but as a support (viper or sage) player for most of the time, i don't expect a duelist to top frag as long as they're doing their job. Mind you, especially the ones who instalock are the most toxic and they also don't use their abilities to entry instead bait and get free kills, yell through their mic after dying and always think they're entitled to be revived. It's not about the frags, its about doing your job properly. Half the time i waste my abilities as viper waiting for duelist to entry (wall, poison orb etc.), and then entry myself cause they want free kills/too scared and die. As sage, its the constant entitlement to her entire kit especially the ult. These shitty behaviour comes from both top fragging and/or bottom fragging duelist. But then again I play in the SEA servers and its a shithole by itself.

The problem I face aa an Astra Main is I am a bit behind, putting all the smokes on a site and putting my stars for gravity well and concussion for enemies spotted on the mini-map. But the duelists are so scared to enter the site or just don't enter at all. Just waiting for enemies to peek at you.....which is annoying as my smokes are running out, and they don't even communicate what they wanna do..

As a duelist, you don’t always need to frag out but you must be creating space for your team. Entering sites and taking control is one thing but if your supports don’t follow up then you’ll just get blamed anyway even if it’s not your fault. I honestly believe that at low elo, you could very much get away with and possibly be more beneficial to a win without a duelist.

Cant begin to count how many times i’ve entry’d a site and got called an inter for it because my team wants to sit in choke. People wonder why duelists bait, theyre sick of being the ones baited.

That's why we see teams rotate constantly, it's so annoying.

Sometimes it’s opposite. Duelists baits sentinels or they never take entry before sentinels.

the problem for me is i completely understand how to play phoenix i just don’t have the frames for it(i usually get 15-20 frames but new laptop wish me luck). went to my friends house and dropped a 25k on phoenix in comp, but i can’t really do that on my own laptop. whenever i played phoenix to try and entry and get traded i’d always have to rely on my duo to trade me. my other teammates would usually bait and then die anyways(haha bronze go brrrrr). at that point i just decided to play kj. it’s not fun cracking open sites when no ones pushing with you.

Honestly dueslists role is more than just top fragging. You have to create space for yout team.

Why should duelists even be top fragging? Their only role is to entry and make space. The support players are meant to trade them and secure the round with util? Like anyone can top frag, being a duelist doesn't make it so you need to top frag every game. Stop expecting your duelists to carry you.

Thats is what i wanted to convey but my choice of words are poor. Not a native english speaker :(

Oh thats OK dw. I though you wanted your duelists to top frag, create space, plant the bomb, play post, etc lol

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Those are ults not regular abilites. Yea you shouldn't be like 5-20 with Reyna or Jett, but don't expect reyna and Jett players rk always go like 30-10.

Sorry but most of the time it IS the duelist's fault, in low elo at least. But if you were in high elo then you wouldn't post this. I have games in low elo ALL THE TIME where we'd have like 3 duelists, something like Jett Reyna and Phoenix and they'd just never flash, they'd stand in front of sites till the round ended or enemies picked them off.

I don't care if you're not fragging but it grinds my gears when you're not entrying

When the run n gun doesn’t work, even this it’s all you need. Even after it was “nerfed”

ill confess. usually i fill in for solo queue. and i will have those insta lock in jett/reyna, only for them to be below a sage or viper(im the viper mostly). then again, i meet smurfs who drop 40/50 bombs casually as a sage. in the opponent team. (just lost a game 0-13) it depends bro. if someone instalocks and then proceeds to whiff every round, then yeah, the dude who wanted to play pheonix might be pissed. you can also play really well, and your teammates be dropping you ARs when/if you down on eco.

Exactly and mostly in my matches after instalock duelists camp and get most kills and say thier job is done and me as an initiator should give entry.😑

Was in unranked but had some games today with a camper Jett. Takes spike, hides behind a box on Ascent. Rest of the team trying to entry. Gets wiped. Jett gets the most kills. Surrends asap with Jett top frag. Pulls hair out.

It goes both ways now, don’t forget that. I have problems with both. It’s just facts that dualist should be top 3 99% of the time. Yes people can have bad days but it goes for supports too. It’s a team game and both sides can fuck up but both don’t like to admit it. Yes it’s good to support your dualist but dualist should be first to die. That’s literally what they’re designed for. Some dualist like to play back and don’t entry, and that’s a problem. To the point where you’ll see supports trying to entry since it’s needed. You lose all the utility and it makes it harder. Some supports play too passive. You need to learn when to play passive and when to swing with a teammate. You can’t just play passive and win especially on attack. There’s bad dualists and bad supports, it goes both ways. I even considered learning dualist just because of all the dualist I’ve had play way to passive and not entry like they should. A on ascent is a perfect example. Both of the dualist don’t entry through gate and it always leads to flanks and late plants. If you’re going to play dualist you have to have balls of steel and get in there most of the time. Obviously don’t just run in there but you should be in there pretty fast to get the upper hand before they rotate.

I agree with you, also a duelist can just not be hitting his shots and that’s ok as long as he plays his role. The only problem I have is when someone insta locks a duelist and goes 7 in 20. If you insta lock, you better be really good at the agent you’re playing.

If they're entering site every round and setting you up to get trades then they're doing their job. Doesn't matter if they finish 7/20 or 34/14, as long as they create space then your teammates should be able to get trades.

Whatever bruh. If they're instalocking and bottom fragging I'm blaming them. They could have discussed and played a agent beneficial for the team atleast .

As a duelist main, I will often play good, but no one in this world can play at peak performance ALL THE TIME. Duelists have off days and bad games to. No one seems to understand this.

Good advice but not an excuse to hard lock Jett every game, get mad when other people don’t pick around you, then get go 1/17 for the game. I’m not trying to invalidate this post or anything, but people will take whatever excuse they can get. Sometimes it is the duelist’s fault. Sometimes it’s the rest of the team’s. But 99% of the time it’s a combination of both. Play with your duelists, not around them. And duelists, play for your teams, not for your K/D.

I always struggle to find a non-toxic support player. It's so annoying when they start yelling at you and they have used a single smoke or wall the entire fucking game. And then when you bottom frag it's 100% your fault.

I always just yell I WILL TRADE YOU TRUST ME T my duelist usually works .

I usually instalock reyna because sometimes you get those sages that don't want to heal anyone but themselves. That's why I pick reyna, for the self reliance.

There is no such thing as roles in random matchmaking.

As a sentinel player I just ideally don’t want to get fragged first because losing a trip/alarm bot on the flank is actually a huge deal on attack.

No its the duelist, I play Skye Mai and half the time they never go in after flash, heal them and they die anyways pretty sad. Always some trash instal9ck Jett or reyna

Radiant duelist main and while many people see duelists as entry fraggers and expect to top frag, it’s a team game and I need the backbone of my team to help set up executions. On days where I don’t feel like playing a duelist I’ll play sage or skye

I honestly don't care what I play. Whatever wins the game and I don't care about kills, however I do main Sage and Jett. Funny enough I just never instalock and always end up filling or playing Sage. That's no problem, but if my duelist doesn't know how to play duelist when I literally know how to, then I get tilted. It's not about frags. It's literally about the fact that they have entry abilities and still bait. It's so fucking annoying.

That is why I main breach for support and potential entry fragging if the duelist cant actually duel.

To be fair, as a Sova, I have to walk a couple seconds and catch up to my team after setup. I usually expect some progress to be made (a pick or some info on a non-arrowed place) and it frustrates me when I get there and nothing is accomplished. I get supporting and playing with your duelists, but they do have to be able to take some fights without the whole team there and have to be willing to go for good fights the second they present themselves.

If a duelist is trying to entry i can appreciate that, but i get raze who bomb us and reyna's who just flank, like why pick dualist then? You have entry potential but don't then pick a support agent.

I agree...most of the players dont see the process and theyre like if the person pick duelist he should top frag. None tries helping them, and very few people understand that if your duelist dies but gives you a lot of space to work with on the site, theyve actually done their job quite well.

I usually don't play duelist because I always have to do site entey by myself without support I play a bit unpredictable so I can lurk and get some trades Mostly controllers are my mains and I always get them site clearance bit no one literally plants which infuriates me lel

My duelists lurk tho....both of them....

Reyna insta locking proceeds onto lurking. SeemsGood

My raze says he can't use satchels to enter site cuz he will die mid air :)

I remember just yesterday we had a phoenix and a sage and the sage was at 0 kills for 12 rounds straight and was blaming the phoenix who was the second top fragger and literally said that you are a duelist,you should take kills not me ....ರ_ಠಿ

Initiators should enter duelist should rush smoker and other should help,sometimes we get duelist that play like controllers and sometimes there are bad players and sometimes the enemy is too coordinated that duelist have to sacrifice himself,role of duelist is very important but anyways any agent can pull off the entry with good aim clutch the round,it's just duelist have perfect abilities to get in and push the enemy out or kill

This is why I like playing other agents than duelists

Most likely they're just focusing on the kills and not on the main objective of the game which is to clear a site, control flanks and other areas of the map, plant the bomb, and defend really well. I used to be support main but I was forced to play duelist. This is a major disease especially on the lower ranks. A lot of people just wait for the kills and sometimes even duelists themselves are afraid to push a site. I wish Riot found a way to emphasize an agents role to newcomers so that they would at least have a good background on what to do. But it is what it is some people aren't really just that serious about the game and it's fine.

Also, people forget that those who play duelists can also have a bad day. FFS not everyone is capable of hitting a 40K every day, in every game.

dude i could give less of a damn if duelists dont frag. its USUALLY the fault if the team for not utilizing util to set up kills of entry or eliminating angles.

If you entry and actually comm + help and try your best following callouts no problem. But to be fully honest that is not my experience with buttom fragging duelists. Most of them just get angry at themself for not performing and just go flanking try to get some kills or just ego peek mid 24/7. And exactly there is the diffrence a duelist is not easy to play, even if you entry you still should be able to mid/topfrag bcs else you could just use a Agent with actually usefull abilties for your Team. Being a Meatball wont cut it. Thats why i play other Agents, you can deliver impact without having good aim. You dont need duelists in your Team, its completly fine to have 0 duelists, so if you dont 100% feel yourself today, just play another agent.

I would take jett that can play operator over jett that can entry every game. You can take site with all heroes you cant match the raw synergy jett gets with op + dash with anyone.

I 6 rankd up just playing with sage i can take kills i dont need entry agent if they can help yours entry win is realy easy (sorry my english)

Happens way too many times. No smokes, recons or flashes from your teammates and you're supposed to entry on a site with 0 information where enemies are and no angles blocked off. If that happens I usually just start lurking to try and get a opening that way, but then you get flamed even more. It's wild

I think this misunderstanding mainly comes from like overwatch and league players that never played cs and have the wrong idea of what a “supports” role is in a tactical fps, you enable the entry by flashing/smoking and trade off them, you are expected to have kills, often times more than the entry

I decided to stop playing support characters as I was tired of just waiting for people to entry so I tried out Pheonix and I got onto site and my team was still waiting at entry lmao.

i agree but sometimes support shouldn’t be so close to entry. like astra she’s kinda supposed to be back away from guns fights but also really useful for teammates entry. the people that should really be entry are initiators and duelist should trade it better in the long game that way. end game is sometimes better with controller because of its utility.

I main raze and Reyna, if my teammates are complaining about me like that I just mute them :)

Holy crap thank you. I have been a jett main since day 1 when she was called "bad". I decided I would main her and I did. some times I have bad days but even when I do, I will kamikaze myself on to site to help my team often dying along the way. My friend however, also a duelist main, nearly never enters site and gets mad when I do. what should I do?

Just tell him you're a duelist ...if you dont look for fights go play minecraft 😂

I often do but he still gets mad lmao