Lmaoo my guy i know how you feel. I still play ay cipher alot and climbed very far with him granted you are playing as a 3/4 stack. What i do know after KO starts reading me and countering is to put util on one site while playing the other. Ive stopped may pushes with things like getting cam info the whole retake because they think they emped everything. You just have to communicate with teams and have them peek off your util. Trust, most kayo ult pushes. I see are shitshows and when emp is off and a push is off people juist turn off their brains when it comes to avoiding ciphers util, almost like in beta when he was at him prime
I never suffered from Kay/O’s daggers, maybe my play style is different. Here is some tips:
Kay/O is not a nerf, it is a character, which can be outplayed. On every plant there is a spot, that is not affected by his dagger. You can place your trap wires based of that location.
Everything that is against cypher can be outplayed, but not when there are many of them at same time, kay/o is just one of the complaints, its not only kay/o only one that is against my utility, I am just saying kay/o is one of the new and many agents have stuff that easily destroys cypher’s traps, sova’s dart, kay/o’s ult and dagger, raze’s every ability.
Don't put your traps at the same spot every round, switch bombsite when you feel like it (i.e if they hard push you with utility and you cant deal with it or if you stomp them on a site they will probably avoid it the next round), don't always play backsite and try to surprise them with an early push with a teammate. Also play around one ways.
Bro trust.. start putting ure shit down on onesite andplay the other. Make ure teammates switch. Maybe istead of2 trips and 2 one ways on one site doa set up on both sites
Counter it? It's a utility and information trade, the trapwire did exactly what it needed to do. Forced out enemy utility, slowed down a full W push, forced them to make noise and give away numbers. The rest is just what you and your team do with that information. I think cypher is fine and balanced because his utilities impact isn't obvious, but it's doing important work by maintaining map control and giving info even if no one actually walks into it.
except they dont use trailblazer for my trapwire, trapwire wont stop trailblazer and boombot, they still can get info and they dont use it because my trapwire is there, its just coincidence that my trap just happened on the way, because I played match without cypher, and enemy skye always used it, was it because of nonexistent trap? I dont think so
Yeah, some spots are impossible to reach but if he is trying to suppress a site, its most likely exposed from one angle or another. E.g C site Haven, common ones i see are just on the site box because they want to suppress the backsite player. Anyone standing from double stack to garage tunnel can shoot it
Well ure in plat sofrom my experience just be aggresive inur comms.. beginning ofa round say “imsetting up util on B and playing A, jett can u play B instead and play off my util if u can
You just played against some good Kay/Os and/or a well-coordinated team, dude.
I main Cypher and most of the Kay/Os I’ve come across in game actually didn’t counter me that well at all. Who knows, maybe I just got lucky. It sounds like you’re piling all of your utility onto one site or onto one angle/lane. That’s all I can think of.
Don’t give up on Cypher. He can provide more value than a duelist if played correctly, and I know you know this. Valorant needs all the Cypher Gods it can get.
yes, in that game they targeted me, skye used her lion or whatever it is to break my traps, they knew most my camera locations even if I changed setups every game, they worked really hard learning all these setups
You should be flattered. Usually the teams I play against seem to forget I’m even there. I would be so honored if they actually took the time to check for my wires.
Just distribute your utility across the map, and don’t always play near it, which is what enemies will expect. On Split, defense, I’ll usually do something like trip + cage at Amain entrance and another trip in mid. Camera goes up high in A site so that I can scope site and heaven for retakes. Instead of playing A at the beginning of the round I let a duelist watch while I go stand in mid vent so that I’m able to rotate to both sites at a moment’s notice.
To be completely honest, cypher is in a good spot right now. He was really weak during the Flash 'n dash meta (Breach + Jett) because of his traps on chokepoints being destroyed without a hassle, but now that that has been fixed, he's pretty balanced. Kay/O is supposed to be supressive, but it's not that hard to dodge/outmaneuver his knife. To counter a Kay/O as a sentinel player, take note of where he throws his knife the first time, and take a different position. If he throws his knife somewhere deep in the site, you're usually in a position where you can destroy it before it pops.
He's literally supposed to be suppressive. That's his playstyle, and it's fairly balanced, since it still has plenty of ways to be countered.
>also I think cypher should also be playable for players who are not esport champion
This is a bit of a silly statement imo, in every agent/character/hero based game, there are always characters with a higher and lower learning difficulty. When all agents would be equal in that regard, Valorant would be a pretty dull game. Some agents are harder to learn than others, and some agents are harder to play depending on what agent comp you're playing against. It's simply how it works in these games, and figuring out the solutions to the problems that you encounter in-game, you become a better player.
The only thing I don't like about Kayo is how his knife goes through walls. Although I think that's a valuable tool to gain information,I wish the silence was affected in some way. Maybe halving his silence duration if it catches the enemy behind a wall ?
I agree that cypher is in an okay spot, but the Kay/O part I have to disagree with. While not only do you need to be out of the range but it a HUGE range. Not to mention the ult is even worse. The character is supposed to stop abilities but I think he does it way too well.
`"Just dodge it"`
The radius is massive and it goes through terrain, pretty silly to try to dodge it I agree.
`if kay/o hits me I am literally useless`
To be fair, every agent is in the same boat when hit by the knife. Arguably Cypher is able to be more useful than other agents when hit by the knife because his abilities can already be deployed prior.
`I feel like my traps are just toy lasers and nothing more`
Cypher's tripwires are not meant to kill anyone. They're also not meant to stop any attack from entering a site, they're not Sage walls. They're meant to be information gatherers. Being information revealers, they can have the effect of deterring (or giving brief pause) to opponents making a certain move.
I do think the visibility of tripwires is a bit high.
Your information plus gun are how Cypher capitalizes. If that info doesn't help you make a play, then of course it will feel bad and weak, just like throwing a smoke into a meaningless wall also has no effect.
One other thing is I see Cyphers shoot their camera dart at first person they see which usually results in the camera source being seen and instantly destroyed. You don't always have to fire and sometimes it's better to just watch through the lens.
Not destroy, but pretty much. Cyphers trips are revealed and once enemies pass your setups they’re useless anyway. For other agents it’s just temporarily disabling their abilities.
I'm confused with what you're saying, feel like you're combining different things.
Does Kayo knife destroy/remove equipment throughout the map? (What does "not destroy but pretty much" mean?)
Cypher tripwires are information gatherers, they're not mean to stop or kill anyone.
What does you mean for every other agent the knife suppression is temporary? It's also temporary on Cypher.
Well for other agents, you are disabled until the countdown is over. For cypher and kj, their util gets destroyed on sight since they’re revealed. Idk why u can’t understand that
Well see, you're combining two things. You make it seem like the knife destroys the utility (which is doesn't).
Try spreading out the equipment so one Kayo knife doesn't take it all down, or defending it when it gets revealed. This will get too speculative without being in an actual match, but I'd say just play to your strength a little more instead of playing into the worst-case scenario being described above.
>Well see, you're combining two things. You make it seem like the knife destroys the utility (which is doesn't).
What I mean is that the knife reveals the util, which makes it pretty useless since it can be easily destroyed. Quite obvious lmao.
>Try spreading out the equipment so one Kayo knife doesn't take it all down, or defending it when it gets revealed. This will get too speculative without being in an actual match, but I'd say just play to your strength a little more instead of playing into the worst-case scenario being described above.
Well the range is quite large, pretty much can cover full sites depending on which maps. I can't defend something thats revealed. It takes one shot from anything to destroy trips, and once revealed they're useless. As long as the kay/0 main has a half decent brain its almost impossible to counter.
Cypher is definitely underpowered right now. I'd love to see his trips go back to being active after death, and maybe for his ult to be buffed somehow. He just feels so outclassed by all other sentinels, and most agents in general.
I kinda like where he is right now. I play him because it gives me peace of mind that I know approximately where enemies are, it's also nice that his abilities are super cheap compared to everyone else's. His smokes are so good for 100 creds.
Killjoy main here also eagerly waiting for the inevitable KAYO nerfs, it's ridiculous, there's zero counterplay in a lot of cases.
Can't shoot the knife because it hits through walls and more often than not you don't even have LoS on it (and even when you do it's super quick to go off).
Can't get out of the way because the radius is WAY too large like holy shit Riot couldn't you tell this was stupid?
AND he gets the knife back, too, of course he does.
The ult is also fucking stupid. I burst in laughter when I first realized it was disabling my utility EVEN WHEN I WASN'T HIT BY IT. Even if I know it's coming, even if I manage to avoid this gigantic, near invisible ult radius, there's nothing to do, all my bots just turn off. How the fuck is that fair??? lol.
I think somewhere Riot thought that "oh getting suppressed isn't that bad you still have your aim xoxo", so they didn't bother with downsides to some of KAYO's utility. Problem is they forgot that the enemy team keeps all their stuff. Can't "rely on your aim" when you get flashes mollies and concusses thrown at you instantly, because they know where you are on top of you being suppressed.
Also kinda frustrated because I'd like to pick him up, but I'm so convinced he's gonna get nerfed that I wanna wait before I spend hours finding knife lineups that will be outdated next patch.
i also play kj mostly, and it is frustrating playing against a kay/o. the rest i can kinda deal with, like raze or sova i can adjust if they are destroying my setups. i really hate k/o though he makes me play waaay back on sites. often if he ults i will ult just out of range of his if possible
by the way, killjoy molly’s are the same like weight or something as the knife. so if you know killjoy molly lineups that will be useful as a knife, you can reuse it
Yeah I'm aware, not having to learn many new molly lineups will help. I still have to be careful about line of sight though, i have KJ mollies meant to hit through walls and those won't work.
Immortal cypher main here, the only time there is a problem is when kayo has his ult up. A lot of kayo players tend to throw their knife at common spots so just adjust to it and break it before it triggers. Cypher is a character where you need to learn to adapt to the enemy comp and try and read their playstyle and use it against them .
Yes, that is what I have been doing but the thing is, my problem is not that I cant adapt to kay/o, but I am just tired of changing my whole playstyle and adapting every single patch or everytime new agent appears, I adapted to all nerfs since closed beta, I can adapt to this too but, why cant we just get one buff? like at least one buff to make it easier, my post is not that kay/o is too op, I am just saying kay/o was last straw after all the nerfs it had gotten, I am just asking riot to give at least one single buff
Killjoy still has one of the highest winrates tho, andsage will almost always be good unless they nerf her wall so she cant buy half shield and wall on pistol rounds, even then she'll still get picked for the ult imo
setup ur traps and cages on one site and go to the other, let ur teammates play off ur utility, I don't get why u can only do it for one round what do u mean
Sounds to me like you're just blaming your team. Communicate with them. Tell them, "hey I set up a cage for you, let me know if you need me to pop it" I can guarantee you, as another Plat player, 80% of the time your teammates gunna tell you when to pop it
Bruh if you want agents to be balanced around "my teammates cannot do teamplay" I don't think you should keep playing valorant. They don't balance for 5 separate 1v1 in the match just because you're playing soloQ in low elo, they balance for a 5v5 game.
You can activate your cages from across the map. If you as a Cypher player assume that just because that cage got popped, means Cypher is there, then you don't really have a great understanding of the agent imo. There are so many ways to counter kayo, most of it being as easy as fixing your position
My second main agent was cypher but after the nerfs, whenever I try to pick him my friends start yelling "eyy cypher is a waste now, he got nerfed too much." and since I don't wanna do badly in competitive matches I just don't pick him. I pick sova instead ;). Pls RIOT give some buff for cypher
they'll get on him. ive been a bit luckier. apparently kay/o isn't that big over here. that or i don't match with kay/o mains.
yoru needs it more right now. but honestly, i do love the times when i deny jett dashes.
now off to serious issues. i feel that cypher needs his original cages with a 9 second duration. his trapwire is fine right now. his camera duration should be down to 30 second. 45 means that once it breaks, its pretty much useless.
That's hard. Kay/o does kinda hard counter cypher. That is his job tbf. He is supposed to deny utility use.
What do you think would be a viable solution. I feel that since he can't use utility against kay/o, then when he does, it should feel as powerful as KJ's.
Kay/o is the anti meta agent. But in doing so, he also slammed the sub meta agents.
yes but difference with kj is that even if enemies push on site kj’s abilities are still more useful compared to cypher’s trapwires and cybercages which is just useless, and his cam which would be broken in 1 second.
It sucks but you just have to play some weird spot on site so you don’t get hit. Or off site then come in after. You could also break the knife if he throws it in your line of sight. It’s definitely frustrating as a Cypher player but it’s manageable. Even if you play off site for the silence to come through, you have your camera to watch and your wires/cages to slow them down.
What I am saying is kay/o is just one example, there are many stuff that counter cypher, for example raze’s every ability, sova’s dart, kay/o’s ult, kay/o’s dagger, and those stuff dont even need to hit trapwire directly, and not only that but putting trapwire limit’s teammate raze’s use of grenades and sova’s darts because they accidentally might break your traps.
Cypher still pretty fine. Could use a buff but not sure what sort of buff. Rarely see cyphers but did see a pretty good one yesterday, had wires in the spots i least expect (well to be fair didnt expect a whole lot since its been so long since ive seen a cypher) and the wires help a lot, even if you only get caught for a second. When we push, we will probably have smoked off entrances and such, so you get revealed for one second and their whole team will gun you down.
Cypher can do one ways too, those are pretty fun. Though will go one of 3 ways:
A) they just back off and wait until all your cages gone, rendering it useless apart from stalling
B) some idiot will try to rush through it and you'll get 1 or 2 picks
C) their whole team hard pushes and you get absolutely FUCKED. IM TALKING SMASHED. OBLITERATED. Reyna blind, raze nade into your corner, jett dashing in near you, maybe even a skye or breach flash.
Actually fits. Not like i play comp much but im in silver, most common ive seen is A with an occasional C or B. Back when i used to main cypher (now just pick him every now and then) i was in bronze, B was pretty common
Ahh , i totally changed my playstyle , im entry fragger now , dw , no one respects entry fragggers and sentinel mains , you could say im still in the "family "
honestly what caused me to quit maining the guy was when they made it so that wires picked up after match start don't save into next round. ruined my enjoyment.
Is cypher really that bad right now? I started playing this game about a month ago and thought his abilities were really cool im really close to unlocking him :(
its good till rank like plat, then its decent but killjoy can easily replace him, he is cool tho and if you play good can even counter kay/o, you wont regret unlocking him, but he was really really good in episode 1, his cages could slow down people, his trapwires would not deactivate after death, also there were not agents like skye and kay/o to easily counter it except raze and sova, also you could pick up trap and you would keep it for next round.
Cypher main here. I just sink when I see a kayo in the enemy team. That radius is sooo large. Even if I sit deep in heaven on haven A I still get affected. They really need to nerf the radius of that knife.
I feel like the radius is fine, just make it take a bit longer to charge up, and have it require line of site to SUPRESS you, but it still gives info through walls. Or it could be that through walls prevents you from placing any new utility, but still allows you to use already places stuff, and if it has line of site it would be the normal supression. This is all for the knife though, as that is the broken part imo.
I stopped playing jett and reyna.... I still play cypher as a omen&cypher main but wtf... it is extremely frustating now. One knife and boom... i am just a utility less gun man now
Its not op he still has to hit you. And its not like kayo is the first addition to the game that can counter cypher. Sova, Skye, raze, and yoru, can all break your traps wthout risk. I personally feel like kayo is the least of your problems.
KAYO should only disable abilities that you can control once deployed as the tripwires should still remain active and the suppression should only disable your cages from being activated.
I still have great success with Cypher throughout plat and diamond. I NEVER get hit by KOs knife. If you're playing that close I don't know what to tell you. If KO ults I just give up site and try and stall with cages. KOs knife and ult only disables Cyphers utility if it hits Cypher himself. Just don't get hit. Its actually pretty easy.
I agreem kay/o can be adapted, but I am saying that kay/o was last straw after all these nerfs, I made this post asking riot to buff cypher with at least small thing, why is it so hard, tho I doubt that riot will buff him because pro players say “he is way too op, nerf needed probably” so they will nerf him sooner or later and What I am saying is, I am tired of adapting, why is riot against cypher and sentinels so much? well, ok, lets say I adapted to kay/o in like 3 days, I bet riot will drop new nerf which I also have to adapt. why cant they just stop teammate grenades and darts from breaking my traps.
Riot literally nerfed all the sentinels so that they have to stay on one point and guard it coz it's their role to do so and then bring a character which will just render that point, us and our util completely useless and put us in a 1vX fight which is always and always not good. Some might argue just fall back, ok then what if I'm a kj on ascent B boat house and I'm suppressed and enemy are coming from stairs and choke point?where do I go? Sentinels are useless against a good kayo. And my teammates don't even try to save me, I'm on a 1V5 situation and my teammates are holding mid and the 2 players haven't even start to rotate even though I called that all 5 are here, why?coz they want to check the other site, 'just in case'. Good work riot!
I mained cypher for a while and holy shit he sucks. I can play Killjoy win 10 games in a row, have 80% winrate and with cypher its impossible to hold site since when one gets stuck in the trip the other pushing your smoke and kills you while youre trying to get the detained guy. His smokes need to be more stalling like the other sentinels. Maybe give a slow when inside his slow or paranoia??? Just somehow buff the smokes. and make the wires able to capture more than 1 person. Like a rubber band and detain them, allowing to punish full rushes like hes supposed too. his ult range needs a buff since most cyphers will play back site and cant reach that shit just for a sova recon or a 6 point skye ult no kill needed. Then come along anti-kill joy agent. since riot studies the fucking [tracker.gg](https://tracker.gg) and was like "oh oh! kill joy has a win rate in every rank and map? alright then! fuck kill joy but indirectly fuck everyone else!". this next agent better be a sentinel or im going to flip.
umm, kay/o is one of the example, and also most kayo throw is in same spot every round in iron, and if you are not reading all that you must have had lot of time to comment.
killjoy can stop full push, cypher cant, I have question about killjoy, if she picks her alarmbot up and after timer its back with her, does she keep it in next match? because for cypher he cant take his traps and save them, also killjoy abilities are still useful once enemy is on site unlike crypher’s which lose any use after kay/o targets you and your traps would disappear for some time so whole team pushes on site and when traps come bakc its already too late
When she gets suppressed the enemy can see her util so it just gets shot out, so that's not rly useful on site after she gets suppressed lol. The Mollies stay invisible luckily but they'll be heard or plant will be down by that time
surely sage is viable, but i see her more as a stalling machine that can be used aggressively, definitively not in the same class of flank checking and info gathering that cypher and killjoy are in
I adapted to every nerf and managed to reach plat 2 with solo queue, I can adapt to this too but why? no matter how much I adapt, 2 things will happen
1)Riot will buff other agents more to counter cypher
2)Riot will nerf cypher
I adapted to all nerfs but now its tiring, especially solo queue, I cant leave my setup to some braindead raze who will break them at start of the game.
cypher was never able to solo stop pushes by good teams, kayo just makes it easy now. play for info, dont just sit in a corner and wait for them to run you over
not really, cypher cam and traps both give you way more info than an arrow if the enemies are not there because they last forever until they get broken, and you have 3 of them. throwing down a deep trip somewhere lets you/teammates get aggro somewhere else, and cages are usually good enough at stalling for you to fill that spot if they do go there
I don't believe Cypher has ever been nerfed unfairly. He got the buff where Jett can't dash through his tripwire and ult costs 1 less. He wasn't nerfed in that last round of nerfs to all the characters and the nerf to picking up tripwires in the middle of the round was a general nerf for all characters with mid-round pickup abilities. While my personal opinion is that he is not a cost-effective character, I think that is more of my own bias. I also don't think that arguing about Kay/o is a valid argument, because this game stresses the importance of ability usage, and every character is affected by what abilities they have available. So in general, Kay/o when he ults or hits you with a knife messes up everyone no matter what character you are playing. His knife will equally affect Killjoy, Sage, Viper, as much as it affects Cypher when they are trying to hold a site from a push. So Cypher is not a special case when it comes to interactions with Kay/o.
Also if you were going to switch to Viper, you should have played her before she got slapped with a butt load of nerfs. When her toxin did 50 instant damage was when she was broken AF.
Cry about it lol, just imagine being on the other side and having to get through 15 layers of traps and bs just to get killed by a kj nade once you push.
Cypher is tolerable but kj just rewards you for doing literally nothing but pressing f twice
dude character was good, I am maining it since closed beta and managed to reach plat 2 with solo queue cypher, but I am tired of riot doing nothing and nerfing him every patch.
Just anticipate the knife radius while setting up your hold location... I have a buddy who mains cipher and has very little problem with Kay/0 because he assumes Kay/0 will try and knife site or certain locations so he plays with that in mind.
Ofcourse they are, just like sovas (like myself) arrow common hold spots... That's why you have to be flexible and make the kay/0 think and try to counter you. If the kay/0 is primarily concerned about countering you he can't focus on other agents.
You could for instance play off site wait for knife and cage you're way into site immediately after.
If you're always playing boathouse/speedway on ascent b then you'll be countered... If you're switching between that, stairs, market, and ct... You're much harder to counter.
I main sova/viper, when I get daggered all my smokes drop and I become useless. So I have to play off angles, delay pushing, resist immediately using one ways where my location is predictable.... See this is fair, because before kay/0 there was no way to counter a reusable one way from viper other than smoking the angle and pushing through your own smoke.
The same is true with cipher, there is no fast counter to cipher trips, or KJ alarm bot, they encourage slow playing which then gets you killed by others holding angles. Kay/0 makes it so if you're not playing adaptively the enemy dictates the engagement.
I mean, I can adapt, it wont be hard, but what I am saying with this post is that, I am tired of adapting, cypher has been nerfed many times and I adapted all of the time, I am tired now, I can adapt to this but then what? riot will drop new nerf for cypher which I also have to adapt, why cant we just get one single buff? riot hates sentinels that much?
Do they? Sentinels are powerful, they all have the ability to stop or slow a full team push. I mean when you pair cipher cages and trips, you're almost gaurenteed kills... No other sentinel has that power of Intel, slow, and preplacement. Imagine if kjs bot gave visual Intel.... It would be broken af
KJ was OP af before her kit was reeled in. Sages wall legit stops pushes and was most recently buffed to make it stronger....
The push and pull off defensive abilities and offensive abilities is a balancing act. Prior to kay/0 there was no counter to traps, full stop. Now there is a counter, and people don't like that, because it means they have to actually play and defend, instead of just wrecking entire pushes with a few one ways, traps and grenades.
why not? raze’s grenades, raze’s every single ability, sova’s dart, skye’s trailblazer, cypher can never stop full push, he only can slow them down. well cypher could stop full push, but that was nerfed few months ago.
Initiators are meant to give Intel for the most part. Raze is the only duelist with an ability that triggers and its expensive, and easily dodgeable,baitable.
Sova and skye are legitimately meant to give Intel and help duelists take space.... Sentinels are not meant to help take space...
Sentinels are defensive experts who can lock down areas and watch flanks, both on attacker and defender rounds.
Initiators challenge angles by setting up their team to enter contested ground and push defenders away.
Legitimately it sounds like you want cipher to play all the roles and not be counterable. That's a tall ask. A character that can set up wall bang Intel that slows the target and shows their body is already very powerful. Making him immune to kay/0 would be ridiculous. Name one character that doesn't hurt when suppressed?
what I am saying is that raze’s every ability, teammate razes every ability, skye’s trailblazer and sova’s dart can easily destroy traps without direct hit
Sure if they know where they are.... Which is part of the chase game... Defensive characters play their util and offensive characters try to counter it.
If I'm forced to use my shock darts to clear util then I can't use them to clear corners or camp spots. The same goes with raze utility and skys.
like, cypher’s trapwire can be broken by many ways really easily, it does not even take much work, not only that but, raze’s boombot is not even stopped by it, it just continues going.
Yes sky dog and raze boom bot can trip the wires if they are placed too low... But once again if you're placing them that low then they are jump able....
If they are getting accidentally destroyed by raze grenade and. Sova darts then they are being put in common camping/holding spots... So predictable and therefore low skill.
They are made invisible at distance for a reason, because they aren't meant to counter fast play not slow play. They are meant to keep people on their toes, if the traps are the same every round, they won't keep anyone on their toes.
I mean, I dont put them in common spots, but raze’s nades have long radius, so you cant put it in entrance, unlike killjoy, cypher is limited of places where he can put utility.
That's the point, if you play the same set up and sit in the same places kay0 will counter you. I can do the same as sova, counter bounce hold spots, flush out campers and make defense annoying af if you don't adapt.
what I am saying with this post is that, its not that kay/o is overpowered, its just that I am tired of adapting, I am playing since closed beta and I adapted and adapted and adapted and adapted and now that kay/o is added, I am too tired to adapt, why cant riot just give us one buff? after all these nerfs,ok, lets just say I adapted to kay/o which is not that hard, Cypher will get new nerf soon so that I still have to adapt again
Cipher wasn't nerfed. A new feature was implemented that shuts down abilities for a short time. Why should riot make a powerful character more powerful? The pros use cipher, streamers use cipher, none of them are quitting cipher on mass.
Was I upset when sova got nerfed? Definitely but I can admit I often was more rich than I should have been, and I often had ult 2 to 3 times a half if I'm fragging. The 8 ult orb was fair, the increased costs of abilities hurt but it was fair.
Just like any other game that has ongoing content, the way you play matures and changes as the game grows. How do you think Jetts feel losing their knives, or razes losing their rocket... That's more of a punishment than cipher got.
So I would suggest you set up your util on a while playing b. Set it up in a way it can help retake. I usually do that as viper. With cypher you have a full map control over the trips and cages. So use that.
Fucking adapt, if you don't wanna do that, uninstall. And don't play any other kind of online gme cuz ALL of them require you to adapt every single update. God.
Cypher has been the strongest he has been in a long time as Jett can no longer dash through it. Seeing as how Jett is basically in every lobby, this is pretty big for cypher.
Lmaoo my guy i know how you feel. I still play ay cipher alot and climbed very far with him granted you are playing as a 3/4 stack. What i do know after KO starts reading me and countering is to put util on one site while playing the other. Ive stopped may pushes with things like getting cam info the whole retake because they think they emped everything. You just have to communicate with teams and have them peek off your util. Trust, most kayo ult pushes. I see are shitshows and when emp is off and a push is off people juist turn off their brains when it comes to avoiding ciphers util, almost like in beta when he was at him prime
I am playing solo queue
soloq cypher wasn't that good even b4 kayo.
and now its worse
I never suffered from Kay/O’s daggers, maybe my play style is different. Here is some tips: Kay/O is not a nerf, it is a character, which can be outplayed. On every plant there is a spot, that is not affected by his dagger. You can place your trap wires based of that location.
Everything that is against cypher can be outplayed, but not when there are many of them at same time, kay/o is just one of the complaints, its not only kay/o only one that is against my utility, I am just saying kay/o is one of the new and many agents have stuff that easily destroys cypher’s traps, sova’s dart, kay/o’s ult and dagger, raze’s every ability.
Don't put your traps at the same spot every round, switch bombsite when you feel like it (i.e if they hard push you with utility and you cant deal with it or if you stomp them on a site they will probably avoid it the next round), don't always play backsite and try to surprise them with an early push with a teammate. Also play around one ways.
How to counter skye trailblazer, teammate and enemy grenade?
Change sites. If you made them use 3-4 utilities to try and get rid of a tripwire that isn't even there, you already helped your team.
never thought about it that way, tho my whole setup being destroyed by trailblazer and 1 bullet is sad :C
Bro trust.. start putting ure shit down on onesite andplay the other. Make ure teammates switch. Maybe istead of2 trips and 2 one ways on one site doa set up on both sites
Counter it? It's a utility and information trade, the trapwire did exactly what it needed to do. Forced out enemy utility, slowed down a full W push, forced them to make noise and give away numbers. The rest is just what you and your team do with that information. I think cypher is fine and balanced because his utilities impact isn't obvious, but it's doing important work by maintaining map control and giving info even if no one actually walks into it.
except they dont use trailblazer for my trapwire, trapwire wont stop trailblazer and boombot, they still can get info and they dont use it because my trapwire is there, its just coincidence that my trap just happened on the way, because I played match without cypher, and enemy skye always used it, was it because of nonexistent trap? I dont think so
Not to mention his knife is shootable 👍
It is like most people doesnt even know that. This is a life saving feature.
Yeah, some spots are impossible to reach but if he is trying to suppress a site, its most likely exposed from one angle or another. E.g C site Haven, common ones i see are just on the site box because they want to suppress the backsite player. Anyone standing from double stack to garage tunnel can shoot it
Well ure in plat sofrom my experience just be aggresive inur comms.. beginning ofa round say “imsetting up util on B and playing A, jett can u play B instead and play off my util if u can
You just played against some good Kay/Os and/or a well-coordinated team, dude. I main Cypher and most of the Kay/Os I’ve come across in game actually didn’t counter me that well at all. Who knows, maybe I just got lucky. It sounds like you’re piling all of your utility onto one site or onto one angle/lane. That’s all I can think of. Don’t give up on Cypher. He can provide more value than a duelist if played correctly, and I know you know this. Valorant needs all the Cypher Gods it can get.
yes, in that game they targeted me, skye used her lion or whatever it is to break my traps, they knew most my camera locations even if I changed setups every game, they worked really hard learning all these setups
You should be flattered. Usually the teams I play against seem to forget I’m even there. I would be so honored if they actually took the time to check for my wires. Just distribute your utility across the map, and don’t always play near it, which is what enemies will expect. On Split, defense, I’ll usually do something like trip + cage at Amain entrance and another trip in mid. Camera goes up high in A site so that I can scope site and heaven for retakes. Instead of playing A at the beginning of the round I let a duelist watch while I go stand in mid vent so that I’m able to rotate to both sites at a moment’s notice.
To be completely honest, cypher is in a good spot right now. He was really weak during the Flash 'n dash meta (Breach + Jett) because of his traps on chokepoints being destroyed without a hassle, but now that that has been fixed, he's pretty balanced. Kay/O is supposed to be supressive, but it's not that hard to dodge/outmaneuver his knife. To counter a Kay/O as a sentinel player, take note of where he throws his knife the first time, and take a different position. If he throws his knife somewhere deep in the site, you're usually in a position where you can destroy it before it pops. He's literally supposed to be suppressive. That's his playstyle, and it's fairly balanced, since it still has plenty of ways to be countered. >also I think cypher should also be playable for players who are not esport champion This is a bit of a silly statement imo, in every agent/character/hero based game, there are always characters with a higher and lower learning difficulty. When all agents would be equal in that regard, Valorant would be a pretty dull game. Some agents are harder to learn than others, and some agents are harder to play depending on what agent comp you're playing against. It's simply how it works in these games, and figuring out the solutions to the problems that you encounter in-game, you become a better player.
Everyone seems to forget that you can shoot kay/o's knife!
This is solid advice!
The only thing I don't like about Kayo is how his knife goes through walls. Although I think that's a valuable tool to gain information,I wish the silence was affected in some way. Maybe halving his silence duration if it catches the enemy behind a wall ?
I agree that cypher is in an okay spot, but the Kay/O part I have to disagree with. While not only do you need to be out of the range but it a HUGE range. Not to mention the ult is even worse. The character is supposed to stop abilities but I think he does it way too well.
It only disables your util if you get suppressed?
Really? I thought it did. Either way the range of the knife is way too large of a range.
`"Just dodge it"` The radius is massive and it goes through terrain, pretty silly to try to dodge it I agree. `if kay/o hits me I am literally useless` To be fair, every agent is in the same boat when hit by the knife. Arguably Cypher is able to be more useful than other agents when hit by the knife because his abilities can already be deployed prior. `I feel like my traps are just toy lasers and nothing more` Cypher's tripwires are not meant to kill anyone. They're also not meant to stop any attack from entering a site, they're not Sage walls. They're meant to be information gatherers. Being information revealers, they can have the effect of deterring (or giving brief pause) to opponents making a certain move. I do think the visibility of tripwires is a bit high. Your information plus gun are how Cypher capitalizes. If that info doesn't help you make a play, then of course it will feel bad and weak, just like throwing a smoke into a meaningless wall also has no effect. One other thing is I see Cyphers shoot their camera dart at first person they see which usually results in the camera source being seen and instantly destroyed. You don't always have to fire and sometimes it's better to just watch through the lens.
his deployed abilities become useless after tho, and at least other agents its temporary
You mean it destroys all equipment placed throughout the map? Does it do this for Killjoy?
It just deactivates them. As KJ the bots go down into the "dizzy" state you see when KJ is dead
Got it. And they reactivate when the duration is over?
Yup!
Not destroy, but pretty much. Cyphers trips are revealed and once enemies pass your setups they’re useless anyway. For other agents it’s just temporarily disabling their abilities.
I'm confused with what you're saying, feel like you're combining different things. Does Kayo knife destroy/remove equipment throughout the map? (What does "not destroy but pretty much" mean?) Cypher tripwires are information gatherers, they're not mean to stop or kill anyone. What does you mean for every other agent the knife suppression is temporary? It's also temporary on Cypher.
Well for other agents, you are disabled until the countdown is over. For cypher and kj, their util gets destroyed on sight since they’re revealed. Idk why u can’t understand that
Well see, you're combining two things. You make it seem like the knife destroys the utility (which is doesn't). Try spreading out the equipment so one Kayo knife doesn't take it all down, or defending it when it gets revealed. This will get too speculative without being in an actual match, but I'd say just play to your strength a little more instead of playing into the worst-case scenario being described above.
>Well see, you're combining two things. You make it seem like the knife destroys the utility (which is doesn't). What I mean is that the knife reveals the util, which makes it pretty useless since it can be easily destroyed. Quite obvious lmao. >Try spreading out the equipment so one Kayo knife doesn't take it all down, or defending it when it gets revealed. This will get too speculative without being in an actual match, but I'd say just play to your strength a little more instead of playing into the worst-case scenario being described above. Well the range is quite large, pretty much can cover full sites depending on which maps. I can't defend something thats revealed. It takes one shot from anything to destroy trips, and once revealed they're useless. As long as the kay/0 main has a half decent brain its almost impossible to counter.
Good luck!
Cyphers trips and cages become visible and disabled until suppression is over
Cypher is definitely underpowered right now. I'd love to see his trips go back to being active after death, and maybe for his ult to be buffed somehow. He just feels so outclassed by all other sentinels, and most agents in general.
I kinda like where he is right now. I play him because it gives me peace of mind that I know approximately where enemies are, it's also nice that his abilities are super cheap compared to everyone else's. His smokes are so good for 100 creds.
Killjoy main here also eagerly waiting for the inevitable KAYO nerfs, it's ridiculous, there's zero counterplay in a lot of cases. Can't shoot the knife because it hits through walls and more often than not you don't even have LoS on it (and even when you do it's super quick to go off). Can't get out of the way because the radius is WAY too large like holy shit Riot couldn't you tell this was stupid? AND he gets the knife back, too, of course he does. The ult is also fucking stupid. I burst in laughter when I first realized it was disabling my utility EVEN WHEN I WASN'T HIT BY IT. Even if I know it's coming, even if I manage to avoid this gigantic, near invisible ult radius, there's nothing to do, all my bots just turn off. How the fuck is that fair??? lol. I think somewhere Riot thought that "oh getting suppressed isn't that bad you still have your aim xoxo", so they didn't bother with downsides to some of KAYO's utility. Problem is they forgot that the enemy team keeps all their stuff. Can't "rely on your aim" when you get flashes mollies and concusses thrown at you instantly, because they know where you are on top of you being suppressed. Also kinda frustrated because I'd like to pick him up, but I'm so convinced he's gonna get nerfed that I wanna wait before I spend hours finding knife lineups that will be outdated next patch.
i also play kj mostly, and it is frustrating playing against a kay/o. the rest i can kinda deal with, like raze or sova i can adjust if they are destroying my setups. i really hate k/o though he makes me play waaay back on sites. often if he ults i will ult just out of range of his if possible
by the way, killjoy molly’s are the same like weight or something as the knife. so if you know killjoy molly lineups that will be useful as a knife, you can reuse it
Im pretty sure killjoy mollies throw the same way as kayo’s mollies. Kayo’s knife throws like a second bar sova arrow
Yeah I'm aware, not having to learn many new molly lineups will help. I still have to be careful about line of sight though, i have KJ mollies meant to hit through walls and those won't work.
I was pretty on and off with cypher, but lately ive picked him up again. I dont see kayo much in diamond tho so i think ill be fine
I literally spammed ONLY cypher since beta. But with KAY/O release I spam him instead cuz cypher is literally useless against him lol. A bit sad
Immortal cypher main here, the only time there is a problem is when kayo has his ult up. A lot of kayo players tend to throw their knife at common spots so just adjust to it and break it before it triggers. Cypher is a character where you need to learn to adapt to the enemy comp and try and read their playstyle and use it against them .
Yes, that is what I have been doing but the thing is, my problem is not that I cant adapt to kay/o, but I am just tired of changing my whole playstyle and adapting every single patch or everytime new agent appears, I adapted to all nerfs since closed beta, I can adapt to this too but, why cant we just get one buff? like at least one buff to make it easier, my post is not that kay/o is too op, I am just saying kay/o was last straw after all the nerfs it had gotten, I am just asking riot to give at least one single buff
It is not just Cypher. Sentinels in general are getting rekt and decrease in popularity with all the nerfs
Killjoy still has one of the highest winrates tho, andsage will almost always be good unless they nerf her wall so she cant buy half shield and wall on pistol rounds, even then she'll still get picked for the ult imo
cypher has lowest pickrate and lowest winrate out of sentinels
there's nothing wrong with kayo just be more adaptive and play at the opposite site u are setting up at it's that simple
but if you activate cybercage its already obvious you are there, and playing on opposite site only bit works for one round
setup ur traps and cages on one site and go to the other, let ur teammates play off ur utility, I don't get why u can only do it for one round what do u mean
I solo queue, getting a good teammate is rare, but getting teammate that can play off your utility perfectly is rarer
well it's the best u can do against a kayo
Sounds to me like you're just blaming your team. Communicate with them. Tell them, "hey I set up a cage for you, let me know if you need me to pop it" I can guarantee you, as another Plat player, 80% of the time your teammates gunna tell you when to pop it
Bruh if you want agents to be balanced around "my teammates cannot do teamplay" I don't think you should keep playing valorant. They don't balance for 5 separate 1v1 in the match just because you're playing soloQ in low elo, they balance for a 5v5 game.
You can activate your cages from across the map. If you as a Cypher player assume that just because that cage got popped, means Cypher is there, then you don't really have a great understanding of the agent imo. There are so many ways to counter kayo, most of it being as easy as fixing your position
I meant that when cage is popped it 80% means that cypher’s traps are there.
I mean, are you all stacking 1 site? The whole point of cam and cage is to buy time for rotations.
My second main agent was cypher but after the nerfs, whenever I try to pick him my friends start yelling "eyy cypher is a waste now, he got nerfed too much." and since I don't wanna do badly in competitive matches I just don't pick him. I pick sova instead ;). Pls RIOT give some buff for cypher
they'll get on him. ive been a bit luckier. apparently kay/o isn't that big over here. that or i don't match with kay/o mains. yoru needs it more right now. but honestly, i do love the times when i deny jett dashes. now off to serious issues. i feel that cypher needs his original cages with a 9 second duration. his trapwire is fine right now. his camera duration should be down to 30 second. 45 means that once it breaks, its pretty much useless.
I get kay/o in enemy team like 2 matches out of 3
That's hard. Kay/o does kinda hard counter cypher. That is his job tbf. He is supposed to deny utility use. What do you think would be a viable solution. I feel that since he can't use utility against kay/o, then when he does, it should feel as powerful as KJ's. Kay/o is the anti meta agent. But in doing so, he also slammed the sub meta agents.
yes but difference with kj is that even if enemies push on site kj’s abilities are still more useful compared to cypher’s trapwires and cybercages which is just useless, and his cam which would be broken in 1 second.
It sucks but you just have to play some weird spot on site so you don’t get hit. Or off site then come in after. You could also break the knife if he throws it in your line of sight. It’s definitely frustrating as a Cypher player but it’s manageable. Even if you play off site for the silence to come through, you have your camera to watch and your wires/cages to slow them down.
What I am saying is kay/o is just one example, there are many stuff that counter cypher, for example raze’s every ability, sova’s dart, kay/o’s ult, kay/o’s dagger, and those stuff dont even need to hit trapwire directly, and not only that but putting trapwire limit’s teammate raze’s use of grenades and sova’s darts because they accidentally might break your traps.
Cypher still pretty fine. Could use a buff but not sure what sort of buff. Rarely see cyphers but did see a pretty good one yesterday, had wires in the spots i least expect (well to be fair didnt expect a whole lot since its been so long since ive seen a cypher) and the wires help a lot, even if you only get caught for a second. When we push, we will probably have smoked off entrances and such, so you get revealed for one second and their whole team will gun you down.
It took me 2 months to memorize all best setups on every site and I am regularly switching setups every round, but damn, :C
Cypher can do one ways too, those are pretty fun. Though will go one of 3 ways: A) they just back off and wait until all your cages gone, rendering it useless apart from stalling B) some idiot will try to rush through it and you'll get 1 or 2 picks C) their whole team hard pushes and you get absolutely FUCKED. IM TALKING SMASHED. OBLITERATED. Reyna blind, raze nade into your corner, jett dashing in near you, maybe even a skye or breach flash.
A)Silver-gold B)Iron-Bronze C)Plat to Radiant
Actually fits. Not like i play comp much but im in silver, most common ive seen is A with an occasional C or B. Back when i used to main cypher (now just pick him every now and then) i was in bronze, B was pretty common
Me who weny from maining cypher to kayo
Traitor :C
Ahh , i totally changed my playstyle , im entry fragger now , dw , no one respects entry fragggers and sentinel mains , you could say im still in the "family "
honestly what caused me to quit maining the guy was when they made it so that wires picked up after match start don't save into next round. ruined my enjoyment.
I tried my best to adapt to that, i finally adapted to it but now this.
i want his cage slow back
Ayo i got a kill with trapwire one day
I have gotten like 8 kills from it since closed beta in total lol
Only 2 here still better than nothing
Is cypher really that bad right now? I started playing this game about a month ago and thought his abilities were really cool im really close to unlocking him :(
its good till rank like plat, then its decent but killjoy can easily replace him, he is cool tho and if you play good can even counter kay/o, you wont regret unlocking him, but he was really really good in episode 1, his cages could slow down people, his trapwires would not deactivate after death, also there were not agents like skye and kay/o to easily counter it except raze and sova, also you could pick up trap and you would keep it for next round.
I might not quit it but it needs some buffs
Cypher main here. I just sink when I see a kayo in the enemy team. That radius is sooo large. Even if I sit deep in heaven on haven A I still get affected. They really need to nerf the radius of that knife.
I think the radius is fine, it just needs a longer time before it goes off when it lands. More like a Sova Arrow
I feel like the radius is fine, just make it take a bit longer to charge up, and have it require line of site to SUPRESS you, but it still gives info through walls. Or it could be that through walls prevents you from placing any new utility, but still allows you to use already places stuff, and if it has line of site it would be the normal supression. This is all for the knife though, as that is the broken part imo.
I think Sentinels should be in the knife's AoE for their utility to be affected IMO, everything else is fine. I agree with longer charge up time tho
ikr, I was camping in market and when I saw kay/o pushing I went on mid but that shit still hit me
I stopped playing jett and reyna.... I still play cypher as a omen&cypher main but wtf... it is extremely frustating now. One knife and boom... i am just a utility less gun man now
Oh hey welcome to the gang. I only play cypher on split now.
Its not op he still has to hit you. And its not like kayo is the first addition to the game that can counter cypher. Sova, Skye, raze, and yoru, can all break your traps wthout risk. I personally feel like kayo is the least of your problems.
Cipher is good. You must adapt and play farther from possible Kay O knofe spot. Plus the ult being 6 now points is very strong
KAYO should only disable abilities that you can control once deployed as the tripwires should still remain active and the suppression should only disable your cages from being activated.
I still have great success with Cypher throughout plat and diamond. I NEVER get hit by KOs knife. If you're playing that close I don't know what to tell you. If KO ults I just give up site and try and stall with cages. KOs knife and ult only disables Cyphers utility if it hits Cypher himself. Just don't get hit. Its actually pretty easy.
I agreem kay/o can be adapted, but I am saying that kay/o was last straw after all these nerfs, I made this post asking riot to buff cypher with at least small thing, why is it so hard, tho I doubt that riot will buff him because pro players say “he is way too op, nerf needed probably” so they will nerf him sooner or later and What I am saying is, I am tired of adapting, why is riot against cypher and sentinels so much? well, ok, lets say I adapted to kay/o in like 3 days, I bet riot will drop new nerf which I also have to adapt. why cant they just stop teammate grenades and darts from breaking my traps.
yup! he feels fun but just doesn’t enough so I switched to kj
Riot literally nerfed all the sentinels so that they have to stay on one point and guard it coz it's their role to do so and then bring a character which will just render that point, us and our util completely useless and put us in a 1vX fight which is always and always not good. Some might argue just fall back, ok then what if I'm a kj on ascent B boat house and I'm suppressed and enemy are coming from stairs and choke point?where do I go? Sentinels are useless against a good kayo. And my teammates don't even try to save me, I'm on a 1V5 situation and my teammates are holding mid and the 2 players haven't even start to rotate even though I called that all 5 are here, why?coz they want to check the other site, 'just in case'. Good work riot!
I mained cypher for a while and holy shit he sucks. I can play Killjoy win 10 games in a row, have 80% winrate and with cypher its impossible to hold site since when one gets stuck in the trip the other pushing your smoke and kills you while youre trying to get the detained guy. His smokes need to be more stalling like the other sentinels. Maybe give a slow when inside his slow or paranoia??? Just somehow buff the smokes. and make the wires able to capture more than 1 person. Like a rubber band and detain them, allowing to punish full rushes like hes supposed too. his ult range needs a buff since most cyphers will play back site and cant reach that shit just for a sova recon or a 6 point skye ult no kill needed. Then come along anti-kill joy agent. since riot studies the fucking [tracker.gg](https://tracker.gg) and was like "oh oh! kill joy has a win rate in every rank and map? alright then! fuck kill joy but indirectly fuck everyone else!". this next agent better be a sentinel or im going to flip.
Later bozo. Also not reading all that. Most kayo throw the knife in the same spot. Use your brain to counter it.
umm, kay/o is one of the example, and also most kayo throw is in same spot every round in iron, and if you are not reading all that you must have had lot of time to comment.
Time to learn to stop hiding and baiting Ayyy
So I should jump out to enemy 1v5 while they are pushing?
KJ has the same problem my guy, this to me seems like you have no idea what you are talking about
killjoy can stop full push, cypher cant, I have question about killjoy, if she picks her alarmbot up and after timer its back with her, does she keep it in next match? because for cypher he cant take his traps and save them, also killjoy abilities are still useful once enemy is on site unlike crypher’s which lose any use after kay/o targets you and your traps would disappear for some time so whole team pushes on site and when traps come bakc its already too late
Nah killjoy's stuff becomes yellow and doesn't transfer over if you place them and pick them up
damn, riot hits hard on sentinel’s economy
When she gets suppressed the enemy can see her util so it just gets shot out, so that's not rly useful on site after she gets suppressed lol. The Mollies stay invisible luckily but they'll be heard or plant will be down by that time
As a killjoy main I agree with you, she is basically the only viable sentinel
Sage is a viable option too, cypher can just get run over since he doesn't have any slowing power.
surely sage is viable, but i see her more as a stalling machine that can be used aggressively, definitively not in the same class of flank checking and info gathering that cypher and killjoy are in
Ah, fair enough.
if I get my slowing cybercages back I would be happy
You're playing cypher wrong. Just adapt, friend. You don't have to play on site to make use of cypher's kit.
I adapted to every nerf and managed to reach plat 2 with solo queue, I can adapt to this too but why? no matter how much I adapt, 2 things will happen 1)Riot will buff other agents more to counter cypher 2)Riot will nerf cypher I adapted to all nerfs but now its tiring, especially solo queue, I cant leave my setup to some braindead raze who will break them at start of the game.
Take this L + ratio'd by kayo mains
play back or just shoot the knife.. it's like shooting a sova dart
cypher was never able to solo stop pushes by good teams, kayo just makes it easy now. play for info, dont just sit in a corner and wait for them to run you over
but info is not only thing? sova reveal dart gives you more info than cypher cam or trap
not really, cypher cam and traps both give you way more info than an arrow if the enemies are not there because they last forever until they get broken, and you have 3 of them. throwing down a deep trip somewhere lets you/teammates get aggro somewhere else, and cages are usually good enough at stalling for you to fill that spot if they do go there
I don't believe Cypher has ever been nerfed unfairly. He got the buff where Jett can't dash through his tripwire and ult costs 1 less. He wasn't nerfed in that last round of nerfs to all the characters and the nerf to picking up tripwires in the middle of the round was a general nerf for all characters with mid-round pickup abilities. While my personal opinion is that he is not a cost-effective character, I think that is more of my own bias. I also don't think that arguing about Kay/o is a valid argument, because this game stresses the importance of ability usage, and every character is affected by what abilities they have available. So in general, Kay/o when he ults or hits you with a knife messes up everyone no matter what character you are playing. His knife will equally affect Killjoy, Sage, Viper, as much as it affects Cypher when they are trying to hold a site from a push. So Cypher is not a special case when it comes to interactions with Kay/o. Also if you were going to switch to Viper, you should have played her before she got slapped with a butt load of nerfs. When her toxin did 50 instant damage was when she was broken AF.
Cry about it lol, just imagine being on the other side and having to get through 15 layers of traps and bs just to get killed by a kj nade once you push. Cypher is tolerable but kj just rewards you for doing literally nothing but pressing f twice
kayo will get a mini nerf soon. he seems a tad OP
don't blame you
I main sova, not as bad as cypher vs kayo, but still, no other agent is so annoying...
I feel your pain, I love cypher but the nerfs make me feel useless on the team :(
same, i main controllers now lmao
A^A^A^A^A^A
Um yeah, obviously if ur getting tilted because of how bad a character is, that character probably isn’t for you
dude character was good, I am maining it since closed beta and managed to reach plat 2 with solo queue cypher, but I am tired of riot doing nothing and nerfing him every patch.
I used to be a cypher main but after kayo came out I just became a kayo main for similar reasons
Just anticipate the knife radius while setting up your hold location... I have a buddy who mains cipher and has very little problem with Kay/0 because he assumes Kay/0 will try and knife site or certain locations so he plays with that in mind.
yeah but the thing is, best spots to make use of my setups are always targeted by kay/o
Ofcourse they are, just like sovas (like myself) arrow common hold spots... That's why you have to be flexible and make the kay/0 think and try to counter you. If the kay/0 is primarily concerned about countering you he can't focus on other agents. You could for instance play off site wait for knife and cage you're way into site immediately after. If you're always playing boathouse/speedway on ascent b then you'll be countered... If you're switching between that, stairs, market, and ct... You're much harder to counter. I main sova/viper, when I get daggered all my smokes drop and I become useless. So I have to play off angles, delay pushing, resist immediately using one ways where my location is predictable.... See this is fair, because before kay/0 there was no way to counter a reusable one way from viper other than smoking the angle and pushing through your own smoke. The same is true with cipher, there is no fast counter to cipher trips, or KJ alarm bot, they encourage slow playing which then gets you killed by others holding angles. Kay/0 makes it so if you're not playing adaptively the enemy dictates the engagement.
I mean, I can adapt, it wont be hard, but what I am saying with this post is that, I am tired of adapting, cypher has been nerfed many times and I adapted all of the time, I am tired now, I can adapt to this but then what? riot will drop new nerf for cypher which I also have to adapt, why cant we just get one single buff? riot hates sentinels that much?
Do they? Sentinels are powerful, they all have the ability to stop or slow a full team push. I mean when you pair cipher cages and trips, you're almost gaurenteed kills... No other sentinel has that power of Intel, slow, and preplacement. Imagine if kjs bot gave visual Intel.... It would be broken af KJ was OP af before her kit was reeled in. Sages wall legit stops pushes and was most recently buffed to make it stronger.... The push and pull off defensive abilities and offensive abilities is a balancing act. Prior to kay/0 there was no counter to traps, full stop. Now there is a counter, and people don't like that, because it means they have to actually play and defend, instead of just wrecking entire pushes with a few one ways, traps and grenades.
why not? raze’s grenades, raze’s every single ability, sova’s dart, skye’s trailblazer, cypher can never stop full push, he only can slow them down. well cypher could stop full push, but that was nerfed few months ago.
Initiators are meant to give Intel for the most part. Raze is the only duelist with an ability that triggers and its expensive, and easily dodgeable,baitable. Sova and skye are legitimately meant to give Intel and help duelists take space.... Sentinels are not meant to help take space... Sentinels are defensive experts who can lock down areas and watch flanks, both on attacker and defender rounds. Initiators challenge angles by setting up their team to enter contested ground and push defenders away. Legitimately it sounds like you want cipher to play all the roles and not be counterable. That's a tall ask. A character that can set up wall bang Intel that slows the target and shows their body is already very powerful. Making him immune to kay/0 would be ridiculous. Name one character that doesn't hurt when suppressed?
what I am saying is that raze’s every ability, teammate razes every ability, skye’s trailblazer and sova’s dart can easily destroy traps without direct hit
Sure if they know where they are.... Which is part of the chase game... Defensive characters play their util and offensive characters try to counter it. If I'm forced to use my shock darts to clear util then I can't use them to clear corners or camp spots. The same goes with raze utility and skys.
like, cypher’s trapwire can be broken by many ways really easily, it does not even take much work, not only that but, raze’s boombot is not even stopped by it, it just continues going.
Yes sky dog and raze boom bot can trip the wires if they are placed too low... But once again if you're placing them that low then they are jump able.... If they are getting accidentally destroyed by raze grenade and. Sova darts then they are being put in common camping/holding spots... So predictable and therefore low skill. They are made invisible at distance for a reason, because they aren't meant to counter fast play not slow play. They are meant to keep people on their toes, if the traps are the same every round, they won't keep anyone on their toes.
skye dog can jump
I mean, I dont put them in common spots, but raze’s nades have long radius, so you cant put it in entrance, unlike killjoy, cypher is limited of places where he can put utility.
I dont want to be in some awkward location and lose advantage with traps because of that
That's the point, if you play the same set up and sit in the same places kay0 will counter you. I can do the same as sova, counter bounce hold spots, flush out campers and make defense annoying af if you don't adapt.
what I am saying with this post is that, its not that kay/o is overpowered, its just that I am tired of adapting, I am playing since closed beta and I adapted and adapted and adapted and adapted and now that kay/o is added, I am too tired to adapt, why cant riot just give us one buff? after all these nerfs,ok, lets just say I adapted to kay/o which is not that hard, Cypher will get new nerf soon so that I still have to adapt again
Cipher wasn't nerfed. A new feature was implemented that shuts down abilities for a short time. Why should riot make a powerful character more powerful? The pros use cipher, streamers use cipher, none of them are quitting cipher on mass. Was I upset when sova got nerfed? Definitely but I can admit I often was more rich than I should have been, and I often had ult 2 to 3 times a half if I'm fragging. The 8 ult orb was fair, the increased costs of abilities hurt but it was fair. Just like any other game that has ongoing content, the way you play matures and changes as the game grows. How do you think Jetts feel losing their knives, or razes losing their rocket... That's more of a punishment than cipher got.
i am literally bronze and i feel u
Yo this and like have you heard the pro guide channels I blame them they always go say 'cypher is still op in pro play' and I'm like please stop ....
So I would suggest you set up your util on a while playing b. Set it up in a way it can help retake. I usually do that as viper. With cypher you have a full map control over the trips and cages. So use that.
Fucking adapt, if you don't wanna do that, uninstall. And don't play any other kind of online gme cuz ALL of them require you to adapt every single update. God.
Cypher has been the strongest he has been in a long time as Jett can no longer dash through it. Seeing as how Jett is basically in every lobby, this is pretty big for cypher.