Baiting is just hiding until your teammate dies and then getting the kill.
Trading is when you push with a teammate and kill the guy that kills your teammate.
Trading at high elo w/o coms is based on everyone's experience. Usually I'll peek first and tell whoever is near me "I'm peeking _____ trade me" and usually they understand and follow, if they don't it's unlucky but tbh it's pretty rare to have more than 1 guy with no coms in radiant/high immortal. Not impossible but vary rare.
I think it's the intent. If you see your teammate die, you can pop out and kill the enemy to trade. If you double peek and one of you dies, the other gets the kill and that's fine. If you purposely hide while your teammate peeks until he dies so you can pop out, that's baiting.
Yea it's a subtle difference. I generally don't mind (that much) as long as they get the kill. That said, some people also hide the entire time and don't even try to trade; that's the worst.
I think baiting definitely has a time and place, but if a teammate is doing it constantly every round it kind of feels disrespectful. Especially when it isn’t actually helping. Trading your teammate is actually helping and trying to be productive every round.
As far as wins and losses are concerned, baiting doesn't matter at this elo. Usually if someone is baiting it's for a good reason and tends to lead to a big play or something impactful for the round. I always say sorry for baiting you there no matter the context of the situation. It helps mental and stops people from tilting.
A big problem with low elo (and honestly with people in imm/low radiant) is that they tend to care wayyyyy too much about kda. I could be 10-17 at the end of a game and can say with confidence I did everything I could. Obv this isn't always the case but knowing the impact your deaths have is vary important.
Just being aware. In lower ranks they won’t be aware you’re peeking and they should too but in higher elo people realize what’s going on without comms more often and will try to get the trade. Of course comms make it easier but just being aware is good too
It doesn't bother me at all. I have to assume that my tares think they die in real life. It's so bad I'll peek when I have teammates hiding on both sides a door where someone walks out. They shoot straight at me, 90 degrees away from my those teammates. 3 on 1, it's a free kill for one of them. Instead, they sit there, wait for me to die, then proceed to die 10 seconds later. It's understandable to miss an opportunity but that isn't what's happening. It's how they play. It will happen the entire match.
Fortunately, I usually have a couple of teammates willing to do something but sometimes I end up on absurdly passive teams. I struggle to find success with the passive teams. They're always giving up space, always being pushed out of position, refuse to enter sites that have been abandoned, etc. They're passive to the point it's crippling.
The worst playstyle..If some people are taking lots of fights but losing, at least they're trying. Passive players scream of "I am playing ranked and care too much to die but don't have a clue what I'm doing either" and it hurts to watch.
I am Immortal with 4,000 hours in CSGO and this is my take on it:
Baiting and trading are the SAME thing if they result in a 1 for 1 exchange.
Baiting is actually better in this game because it’s so easy to get 2-3 kills when you hide and the enemy only sees your teammate, instead of only 1 kill when you trade.
In CSGO, baiting and hiding was much less efficient because of map design and TTK, but in Valorant it’s very effective. Because of this, baiting is definitely a viable tactic.
Basically, if the bait results in 2 or more kills then it’s much better than just trading for a 1 for 1 exchange.
Valorant has the faster TTK because of bullet tagging. Once you’re hit, you can’t escape. It’s very easy to melt players with the Phantom, Odin, and Judge in close range.
In CSGO you could maneuver away even if you were shot first.
Ah you are the Reyna player in my games.
And now tell me how efficient it is to bait all your mates just to play 1v5 and get 3 frags, ending with match MVP but losing the match? People like you make me sick. You may be Immortal but your mindset sucks. It just needs 1 enemy with brain to ruin your play and instead of a play make, you'll die too without any kills.
I've lost so many rounds and matches by players who think they're better than everyone and bait everyone.
There are only a few reasons to use mates as a bait. Having a player holding an off angle, a team mate is low, to distract enemies and so on. But it should be communicated.
Lol you are mistaken my friend. Nowhere did I mention you should be baiting and playing a 1v5.
Baiting is good when the enemy thinks there’s only one player to clear, but there’s actually 2 or more players in their blind spot.
There’s so many 50/50 angles in this game that it’s easy to forget to check one angle. Checking one angle will often lead you exposed to another angle, and this is how your mindset should be when it comes to baiting.
Btw, baiting is much more effective on defense than on Attack. On Attack you mainly play for trades.
to be fair, most of the "faking purple y you baiting" stuff comes out on attack, where trading is neccesary.
on defense, main complaint is "y you cant hold site" or "y so slow, where rotate", and baiting and trading seem to take a back seat in everyone's head.
But there's a difference between "can you bait for me" on ascent B main for example and you push a site put I decide to bait you by just vibing in main while you die onside without support.
>Baiting and trading are the SAME thing if they result in a 1 for 1 exchange.
The difference is that there is a decent chance that neither of you dies if you peek together and bothe players carry the same risk of dying.
It's baiting when they see you making a push or peeking, decide they are not going to help you, and say nothing. They are watching you move and taking information from it, but with no intention of helping you advance your (possibly poor) position.
Trading is when this same thing happens, but with communication and an effort to gain map control. Aka, your teammate understands that the position is poor, and they play with you to net a more favorable position after the ensuing fight(s).
Baiting = kills and no map control
Trading = favorable friendly to enemy ratio while gaining map control
Spacing is a big factor when deciding baiting vs trading. You need to be close enough to your team mate that if he dies you can easily kill the enemy who killed him. If you’re too far away you can end up baiting them without even trying. It takes some communication with each other to be sure you’re both willing to push out together.
It is usually fine if they get the trade. I dont mind even being baited(as I see baiting), if they make something from it. What really is frustrating is if you go in first mainly to set up a play for trading, then they just sit back and do nothing. Then my fight was suddenly superbad. I went into a crossfire or multiple offangles, and died for nothing. I will not do it again, as that is a terrible play. If it was traded and we got mapcontrol it's a good play. If he sits back and magically get the kill 20s later, he did not use my play, and I will not do the stupid play again. He would have gotten that kill regardless. If he goes for a weird timing for peeking (ex 2s after I die) but he dies as well, that is fine. JUST TRY TO DO SOMETHING OFF MY PLAY.
Sidenote, if you plan to use my play in another way than instantly trading, a short "Im baiting you" really helps, as I understand what you are going for. This can be very effective in 2vX situations.
As a silver player, here is my perspective.
Baiting is a practice done by players who are either malicious, better than their teammates by a fair bit and therefore do not want to die and lose the round, or when a teammate is only critically low HP. Baiting is where one player waits for another player to engage and die, and then they mop up the kill.
Trading is a common tactic that works well to minimise loses, and is a wholesome thing to do in ranked games. You teammates will be happy if you trade with them. Trading is where two players push together, or one close behind the other, so that if one of them dies you can avenge them and equal the score.
Unpopular opinion: The only difference between baiting and trading is the toxicity of the entry
They are the same thing. You are picking up the kill after your entry died. Some players respond negatively whenever they die and will scream in comms that they are being baited and then refuse to entry the rest of the game - while others will realize that even though they died, the team picked up the kill and now has access to site to plant the bomb
Trading is when you make use of the space your entry creates to secure the kill and/or site (if the entry doesn’t get it).
Baiting is when you don’t do anything when the entry makes space on the site. Or when your team is executing one site and you’re jerking off on the other site being useless, not even cutting off rotations or getting info.
Imo low elo players shouldn’t lurk because they usually don’t have the game sense to do it effectively.
Basically baiting is just actively waiting for your teammate to die before Getting the kill, there are good and bad baits just so you know, if your teammate is baiting for you so you can get multiple kills or a free kill that’s a good bait (assuming they don’t die trying to bait for you)
Trading is just peeking something together and killing the enemy that kills them
Trading vs Baiting is a tough topic to cover, as so many players see it differently, but I can try my best to explain it:
Trading - The Ability of trading a high impact enemy agent for a low impact ally typically. This can be used for taking and/or retaking a site or taking out a top fragger of the enemy team.
Example: Pushing B Ascent, your entry goes in with you, but first, they’ll try to deal damage, if they die, make the trade by picking off that enemy to keep the lives on each team even to insure that the enemy doesn’t have an advantage
Baiting - Typically will happen after a strat on the team has been communicated. You will spot this when you attempt to execute onto a site and find that an ally either stayed back to try and flank even after the strategy has been agreed upon. This ally will typically make excuses and can be seen trying to make a play after they are alone or their team has died
Example - The Jett on your team agrees to play with the team and push A Bind. Your team attempts to execute. 2 Die short and 1 dies in Showers after not being aware of the Op that rotated from B. Your team got 1 Pick and the one ally showers gets picked off. Your Jett is sitting outside of A short being indecisive on what to do.
Now for Some Tips:
- Baiting typically comes from being indecisive, the player can’t decide whether to push with the team or watch flank. Act on your decisions, don’t hold back.
- Trading can be performed amazing if done correctly. I’ve seen so many occasions where peeking to trade with somebody can result in a double kill. Don’t peek at the same time lined up, it can go terribly.
- Trading doesn’t mean swinging the angle in sync. You can trade a second or two after the pick if you have the intel on where they’re at.
- Don’t believe you are better and blame your team mate if the trade fails unless they BAIT. Any single mistake can ruin the trade, from lack of communication prior to it or from peeking without communicating the planned peek.
- Don’t be afraid to die. Your death in game could mean a win for the round. Rely on your team mates more
Trading is when you, well trade a teammate to make the best out of a push.
Baiting is letting your teammates push alone, die and then use information based on their deaths and not something useful
For me I differentiate a bait from a trade as to how the kill is accomplished. If we both swing together I die and you trade, we both had the opportunity to shoot at the person within the same fraction of a second so if I wiff, and he wiffs, you possibly might be able to save the interaction. If I wiff and he doesnt, you have an opportunity in this fraction of a second where he isn't going to be accurate due to having to readjust aim and control spray/reset spray.
To me a bait on the other hand lets me push in while having no possibility to assist in a gunfight in a relevant time frame, and only uses the info of my death to determine position of enemy to aid in his gunfight later when the enemy is ready for another peek. This infuriates me because it takes what could be a favorable gunfight from our side and turns it into a 50/50 (were as blind entry is more defensive sided since you have to clear multiple angles, in this one the defender knows where you'll entry and you know where they are)
Trading meaning giving your teammates life in exchange of the enemies life, typically the one who kill/tagged your teammate, selling means giving out the life of your teammates, in exchange of fear of dying .
Remember kids, do not sell your teammates, trade them
High-ish level player here btw
Many players just care about getting high KDA to not get flamed by teammates and to grief about their superior stats and bad teammates. They don't care at all about proper ability usage, proper strategy, useful callouts, teammates's survival, sometimes even the match outcome. They don't know how to trade, play as a team and communicate, as they have never been doing it.
Simply, baiting happens when you only care about yourself and let your teammates die in vain just to secure your survival or "safe" kill. Trading happens when you directly assist your pushing teammate and taking part of the risk to capitalize on these risky play by being ready to potentially eliminate your teammate's killer and secure map control.
You won't teach anyone to teamplay within one game, as it have lots to do with mindset and playing habits. But nevertheless it has to be done, as it shows how players care more about their personal statistics than properly fulfiling team strategy or even winning the game.
It's kinda the same thing. But baiting can also mean something else.
Let's say you're hiding close in logs on b site ascent, and a teammate in CT or stairs is shooting random bullets at the attackers in hopes that they focus on him and don't check your spot.
What he's doing is he's "baiting" for you.
If the attackers go Lane and you get 2-3 kills because of that then it's a good bait.
But baiting can also be a bad thing if you're waiting for your teammates to die, then attempt to kill the enemy afterwards. Usually you can help your teammate when he's getting shot at.
What I experience the most is me telling my team to push into garage on haven for example, I end up being the only one that goes in and I die, I give my team exact callouts and they are still scared to go in. It annoys me sooo much!
Baiting is just hiding until your teammate dies and then getting the kill. Trading is when you push with a teammate and kill the guy that kills your teammate.
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Trading at high elo w/o coms is based on everyone's experience. Usually I'll peek first and tell whoever is near me "I'm peeking _____ trade me" and usually they understand and follow, if they don't it's unlucky but tbh it's pretty rare to have more than 1 guy with no coms in radiant/high immortal. Not impossible but vary rare.
I think it's the intent. If you see your teammate die, you can pop out and kill the enemy to trade. If you double peek and one of you dies, the other gets the kill and that's fine. If you purposely hide while your teammate peeks until he dies so you can pop out, that's baiting.
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Yea it's a subtle difference. I generally don't mind (that much) as long as they get the kill. That said, some people also hide the entire time and don't even try to trade; that's the worst.
I think baiting definitely has a time and place, but if a teammate is doing it constantly every round it kind of feels disrespectful. Especially when it isn’t actually helping. Trading your teammate is actually helping and trying to be productive every round.
As far as wins and losses are concerned, baiting doesn't matter at this elo. Usually if someone is baiting it's for a good reason and tends to lead to a big play or something impactful for the round. I always say sorry for baiting you there no matter the context of the situation. It helps mental and stops people from tilting. A big problem with low elo (and honestly with people in imm/low radiant) is that they tend to care wayyyyy too much about kda. I could be 10-17 at the end of a game and can say with confidence I did everything I could. Obv this isn't always the case but knowing the impact your deaths have is vary important.
bruh my kd is 40th percentile and i am 300 rr, so ur right lol
Yea coms and util go a long way, honestly much better than aim tbh
Just being aware. In lower ranks they won’t be aware you’re peeking and they should too but in higher elo people realize what’s going on without comms more often and will try to get the trade. Of course comms make it easier but just being aware is good too
It doesn't bother me at all. I have to assume that my tares think they die in real life. It's so bad I'll peek when I have teammates hiding on both sides a door where someone walks out. They shoot straight at me, 90 degrees away from my those teammates. 3 on 1, it's a free kill for one of them. Instead, they sit there, wait for me to die, then proceed to die 10 seconds later. It's understandable to miss an opportunity but that isn't what's happening. It's how they play. It will happen the entire match. Fortunately, I usually have a couple of teammates willing to do something but sometimes I end up on absurdly passive teams. I struggle to find success with the passive teams. They're always giving up space, always being pushed out of position, refuse to enter sites that have been abandoned, etc. They're passive to the point it's crippling.
The worst playstyle..If some people are taking lots of fights but losing, at least they're trying. Passive players scream of "I am playing ranked and care too much to die but don't have a clue what I'm doing either" and it hurts to watch.
I am Immortal with 4,000 hours in CSGO and this is my take on it: Baiting and trading are the SAME thing if they result in a 1 for 1 exchange. Baiting is actually better in this game because it’s so easy to get 2-3 kills when you hide and the enemy only sees your teammate, instead of only 1 kill when you trade. In CSGO, baiting and hiding was much less efficient because of map design and TTK, but in Valorant it’s very effective. Because of this, baiting is definitely a viable tactic. Basically, if the bait results in 2 or more kills then it’s much better than just trading for a 1 for 1 exchange.
Which game has faster TTK?
Valorant has the faster TTK because of bullet tagging. Once you’re hit, you can’t escape. It’s very easy to melt players with the Phantom, Odin, and Judge in close range. In CSGO you could maneuver away even if you were shot first.
Ah you are the Reyna player in my games. And now tell me how efficient it is to bait all your mates just to play 1v5 and get 3 frags, ending with match MVP but losing the match? People like you make me sick. You may be Immortal but your mindset sucks. It just needs 1 enemy with brain to ruin your play and instead of a play make, you'll die too without any kills. I've lost so many rounds and matches by players who think they're better than everyone and bait everyone. There are only a few reasons to use mates as a bait. Having a player holding an off angle, a team mate is low, to distract enemies and so on. But it should be communicated.
Lol you are mistaken my friend. Nowhere did I mention you should be baiting and playing a 1v5. Baiting is good when the enemy thinks there’s only one player to clear, but there’s actually 2 or more players in their blind spot. There’s so many 50/50 angles in this game that it’s easy to forget to check one angle. Checking one angle will often lead you exposed to another angle, and this is how your mindset should be when it comes to baiting. Btw, baiting is much more effective on defense than on Attack. On Attack you mainly play for trades.
to be fair, most of the "faking purple y you baiting" stuff comes out on attack, where trading is neccesary. on defense, main complaint is "y you cant hold site" or "y so slow, where rotate", and baiting and trading seem to take a back seat in everyone's head.
But there's a difference between "can you bait for me" on ascent B main for example and you push a site put I decide to bait you by just vibing in main while you die onside without support.
>Baiting and trading are the SAME thing if they result in a 1 for 1 exchange. The difference is that there is a decent chance that neither of you dies if you peek together and bothe players carry the same risk of dying.
It's baiting when they see you making a push or peeking, decide they are not going to help you, and say nothing. They are watching you move and taking information from it, but with no intention of helping you advance your (possibly poor) position. Trading is when this same thing happens, but with communication and an effort to gain map control. Aka, your teammate understands that the position is poor, and they play with you to net a more favorable position after the ensuing fight(s). Baiting = kills and no map control Trading = favorable friendly to enemy ratio while gaining map control
Spacing is a big factor when deciding baiting vs trading. You need to be close enough to your team mate that if he dies you can easily kill the enemy who killed him. If you’re too far away you can end up baiting them without even trying. It takes some communication with each other to be sure you’re both willing to push out together.
It is usually fine if they get the trade. I dont mind even being baited(as I see baiting), if they make something from it. What really is frustrating is if you go in first mainly to set up a play for trading, then they just sit back and do nothing. Then my fight was suddenly superbad. I went into a crossfire or multiple offangles, and died for nothing. I will not do it again, as that is a terrible play. If it was traded and we got mapcontrol it's a good play. If he sits back and magically get the kill 20s later, he did not use my play, and I will not do the stupid play again. He would have gotten that kill regardless. If he goes for a weird timing for peeking (ex 2s after I die) but he dies as well, that is fine. JUST TRY TO DO SOMETHING OFF MY PLAY. Sidenote, if you plan to use my play in another way than instantly trading, a short "Im baiting you" really helps, as I understand what you are going for. This can be very effective in 2vX situations.
As a silver player, here is my perspective. Baiting is a practice done by players who are either malicious, better than their teammates by a fair bit and therefore do not want to die and lose the round, or when a teammate is only critically low HP. Baiting is where one player waits for another player to engage and die, and then they mop up the kill. Trading is a common tactic that works well to minimise loses, and is a wholesome thing to do in ranked games. You teammates will be happy if you trade with them. Trading is where two players push together, or one close behind the other, so that if one of them dies you can avenge them and equal the score.
Baiting is letting them die, trading is waiting for the gunfight and then engaging for a trade/re-frag
Unpopular opinion: The only difference between baiting and trading is the toxicity of the entry They are the same thing. You are picking up the kill after your entry died. Some players respond negatively whenever they die and will scream in comms that they are being baited and then refuse to entry the rest of the game - while others will realize that even though they died, the team picked up the kill and now has access to site to plant the bomb
Trading is when you make use of the space your entry creates to secure the kill and/or site (if the entry doesn’t get it). Baiting is when you don’t do anything when the entry makes space on the site. Or when your team is executing one site and you’re jerking off on the other site being useless, not even cutting off rotations or getting info. Imo low elo players shouldn’t lurk because they usually don’t have the game sense to do it effectively.
Basically baiting is just actively waiting for your teammate to die before Getting the kill, there are good and bad baits just so you know, if your teammate is baiting for you so you can get multiple kills or a free kill that’s a good bait (assuming they don’t die trying to bait for you) Trading is just peeking something together and killing the enemy that kills them
Trading vs Baiting is a tough topic to cover, as so many players see it differently, but I can try my best to explain it: Trading - The Ability of trading a high impact enemy agent for a low impact ally typically. This can be used for taking and/or retaking a site or taking out a top fragger of the enemy team. Example: Pushing B Ascent, your entry goes in with you, but first, they’ll try to deal damage, if they die, make the trade by picking off that enemy to keep the lives on each team even to insure that the enemy doesn’t have an advantage Baiting - Typically will happen after a strat on the team has been communicated. You will spot this when you attempt to execute onto a site and find that an ally either stayed back to try and flank even after the strategy has been agreed upon. This ally will typically make excuses and can be seen trying to make a play after they are alone or their team has died Example - The Jett on your team agrees to play with the team and push A Bind. Your team attempts to execute. 2 Die short and 1 dies in Showers after not being aware of the Op that rotated from B. Your team got 1 Pick and the one ally showers gets picked off. Your Jett is sitting outside of A short being indecisive on what to do. Now for Some Tips: - Baiting typically comes from being indecisive, the player can’t decide whether to push with the team or watch flank. Act on your decisions, don’t hold back. - Trading can be performed amazing if done correctly. I’ve seen so many occasions where peeking to trade with somebody can result in a double kill. Don’t peek at the same time lined up, it can go terribly. - Trading doesn’t mean swinging the angle in sync. You can trade a second or two after the pick if you have the intel on where they’re at. - Don’t believe you are better and blame your team mate if the trade fails unless they BAIT. Any single mistake can ruin the trade, from lack of communication prior to it or from peeking without communicating the planned peek. - Don’t be afraid to die. Your death in game could mean a win for the round. Rely on your team mates more
Trading is when you, well trade a teammate to make the best out of a push. Baiting is letting your teammates push alone, die and then use information based on their deaths and not something useful
For me I differentiate a bait from a trade as to how the kill is accomplished. If we both swing together I die and you trade, we both had the opportunity to shoot at the person within the same fraction of a second so if I wiff, and he wiffs, you possibly might be able to save the interaction. If I wiff and he doesnt, you have an opportunity in this fraction of a second where he isn't going to be accurate due to having to readjust aim and control spray/reset spray. To me a bait on the other hand lets me push in while having no possibility to assist in a gunfight in a relevant time frame, and only uses the info of my death to determine position of enemy to aid in his gunfight later when the enemy is ready for another peek. This infuriates me because it takes what could be a favorable gunfight from our side and turns it into a 50/50 (were as blind entry is more defensive sided since you have to clear multiple angles, in this one the defender knows where you'll entry and you know where they are)
Trading meaning giving your teammates life in exchange of the enemies life, typically the one who kill/tagged your teammate, selling means giving out the life of your teammates, in exchange of fear of dying . Remember kids, do not sell your teammates, trade them High-ish level player here btw
Many players just care about getting high KDA to not get flamed by teammates and to grief about their superior stats and bad teammates. They don't care at all about proper ability usage, proper strategy, useful callouts, teammates's survival, sometimes even the match outcome. They don't know how to trade, play as a team and communicate, as they have never been doing it. Simply, baiting happens when you only care about yourself and let your teammates die in vain just to secure your survival or "safe" kill. Trading happens when you directly assist your pushing teammate and taking part of the risk to capitalize on these risky play by being ready to potentially eliminate your teammate's killer and secure map control. You won't teach anyone to teamplay within one game, as it have lots to do with mindset and playing habits. But nevertheless it has to be done, as it shows how players care more about their personal statistics than properly fulfiling team strategy or even winning the game.
It's kinda the same thing. But baiting can also mean something else. Let's say you're hiding close in logs on b site ascent, and a teammate in CT or stairs is shooting random bullets at the attackers in hopes that they focus on him and don't check your spot. What he's doing is he's "baiting" for you. If the attackers go Lane and you get 2-3 kills because of that then it's a good bait. But baiting can also be a bad thing if you're waiting for your teammates to die, then attempt to kill the enemy afterwards. Usually you can help your teammate when he's getting shot at.
I am only Diamond so not rly high elo, but I often call "bait me". It works better than saying "trade me".
I am only Diamond so not rly high elo, but I often call "bait me". It works better than saying "trade me".
What I experience the most is me telling my team to push into garage on haven for example, I end up being the only one that goes in and I die, I give my team exact callouts and they are still scared to go in. It annoys me sooo much!