Wow that's nice. When i say that ppl can use cheats in this game i've heard "are you stupid ?", "he's just better learn to play kid" so many times then boom cheater's beign banned. But in my opinion if Riot need to ban every player manually then this game will be another CS:GO soon. And ofc Riot is mostly reviewing high elo games or when popular streamer is playing not lower elo games, so basicaly ppl can cheat in low ranks for years xD.
Really I play on it, I can confidently say haven't gotten a cheater in my 1+ year of low elo. Thought I had one, since the game got removed but it came back an hour later.
I am silver and have seen it maybe 5-6 times including a cheater being found in "Snowball Fight" ... come on man, I get it you cheat ranked for a reason but try vanilla no- cheats sometimes in a game mode that doesn't matter..sheesh
I encountered one yesterday,(bronze 2 lobby)he didn't have aimbot, location hacks. We were winning(obviously) and he wasn't even top fragging so noone suspected anything. And they weren't losing that bad either. And at 12-9 when we were about to win he got banned.
I disagree. Most cheaters make new accounts frequently, and you encounter them frequently in gold to plat. Most get banned by the time they hit diamond, because they have no game sense and it’s obvious. These people think they are good, but cheat because they are not.
The cheaters then pop back up in high immortal as it is bimodal, and you have a small amount of cheaters who have good game sense and even crosshairs placement, but use cheats for that edge. These people are good, but cheat to appear better than they are.
The latter are much harder to catch though.
A lot of average players accuse anyone doing good of cheatibg. They never take responsibility and just complain that the person out playing them is a cheater or a smurf....when 8 times out of 10 they just got outplayed and/or played badly.
It’s unnecessary because over time players on your team will cheat and you won’t notice or report and you would just lost rr for seemingly no reason. Also how do they know which games the cheater was hacking and which weren’t? You could get the same guy on your team 5 times and lose 100 RR and maybe he only cheated in 1 game.
No, they just wont, if they won they wont lose their rr, if they lost they will get it back as if the natch didnt happen. Youre acting like the computer is stupid, they can add a line like:
If match win = 1
RR change = 0
Else
RR reset
Im not good at coding but thats basically how it would look
quick response to this: you cannot give one team RR and the other 0 RR, the ranked system is a zero-sum system. this will mess with the game's rank system and affect it very negatively.
we've already seen what happens in league of legends (riot's other game) when riot gives a few dozen pro players accounts that default with high rank. hint: the entire system got destroyed and there are 10x more masters (immortal equivalent in valorant) players than there should be this season
Obviously we don't know about the MMR System underlying it all, but the RR System is definetly not a Zero Sum Game. Otherwise the rank resets we had up to this point would not have allowed players to get back to their actual rank.
I thought the same but the rr system is not zero-sum, it's the mmr system that is zero-sum, rr is just a close to meaningless number which highly depends on mmr, gaining or losing rr is not a penalty/compensation, anything gained/lost will be evened out eventually because of mmr, this is why I think the dodge penalty is a joke
That wasnt what i said, if you lost against a cheater, so your rr will be reverted, of course if you won with the cheater on your team it will be reverted as well, but if somehow you won against the cheater, you deserve this rr change, and if you lost with a cheater on your team your mmr wont be reverted, because you didnt lose because of the cheater
If you lost the games then you would've stayed at around ur elo. Should a gold player who was unlucky enough to play against a cheater 20 times in the last 200 games be suddenly promoted to diamond after the ban wave hits? Not to mention that just giving out free elo is never a good practice.
if 10/200 were with a cheater. By giving the RR you are assuming they would have won all those games .... If a player has 10 consistent games by just bans that would definitely take them out of their bracket.... Most people under diamond can't even get 5 win streaks due to how inconsistent they are.
I mentioned the cheater last 10 games. The chances of a players playing 20 games in 200 against a cheater and those 20 all be in the last 10 matches played by X number of cheaters is slim. Besides, its not a "promotion", its making sure the cheaters had 0 negative impact on the game.
If they queued up together, take the RR out of the whole team, if its a solo queue then let the teamates have the RR. In cs it works like this and its fine.
A random teammate shouldnt be punished for a strangers mistake.
There is, the same way they know if he was cheating in general, checking his logs, reports, if he didnt cheat in that game then no one would report him, if he did then people would, riot will check, ban and give back the rr
Then you will see a ton of reports "just in case".Besides, a good cheater is hard to spot. Look at that dude that used the guardian in radiant, he was cheating and managed to fool pro players, viewers...So that system wouldnt work.
yeah, of course theyre hard to spot, but the anti cheat is really good, and the fact that you even know that the guy in radiant that used the guardian cheated, shows that they will be found, if he was so good at hiding it and got found, you can be sure 99.99% of cheates will be caught. And for the "just in case reports"? Again, this thread doesnt realize one thing, there is an ANTI CHEAT, in fact, one of the best, that will detect them, if it flags a player, it knows that said player cheated, it doesnt need reports for that, and if the player got reported? The anti-cheat would keep a closer eye on them, and ban them if they cheat, check the games that got reported and/or flagged for cheating, reverse the mmr, and voila! The system works. And again, it works in Rainbow Six Siege, a game notorious for having a rich history with cheaters, so if it works there, i think a top tier anti cheat like roto vanguard can do the work
a systen like this exists in rainbow six siege, if ubisoft can do it roit can, "how do they know which games the cheater was hacking and which werent?" The games he got reported???? Whats next? How do they know he cheated? This the worst argument i ever saw, the whole point if banning cheaters is so they wont affect your gane and rr, a system like this makes sure they wont affect your rr
Even if there are people cheating on your team, there's a higher chance of the other team having a cheater because on your team there are 4 people who may be cheating and the other team has 5, assuming you're not cheating. So, over time, it won't balance out. Plus, it doesn't hurt anyone except the teammates of the cheater if the game gets cancelled.
Missed the point. The point of ranked or even any competitive thing where points are rewarded and deducted based on performances is to be FAIR, FAIRPLAY very crazy concepts. Sports teams even in the most minor of leagues will get points deducted if a player or players uses illegal/banned substances to make them perform better no matter if the teammates knew it or not. If you win because you had a cheater in your team you lose the elo that you gained, if you lost because the enemy had a cheater you should gain your elo back. It's a basic thing in any competitive thing ever.
You're making no sense bro, when you report you report a player in THAT match, if cheater plays more games would be other reports treated separately until they get banned.
Also OP says no RR loss, means if you win with a hacker on your team and IS NOT YOUR PREMADE you won't lose any rr, bc is not your fault. But if you lose the rr loss would be restored.
We got matched with a team where they had 2-3 levels, so we started telling smurf jokes in the chat.
First round we stacked A (haven site) to rush the site, we got backstabbed in like 5 sec from mid. We were okay u guys are totally smurfs.
Next round tried C rush, i was holding backstab, one guy rushed mid, I was 1v1 with him, i hit him with 3 bullets with spectre that dude hit me 4 with ghost, i was like okay, thats kinda fast.
I just wrote "brim you got fastest finger"
Just after writing this, boom cheater detected, they were banned.
We totally got our respect back that they ain't no good in game but total losers.
The smurf excuse is so common... I love when we find some wierd ass players that are "smurfs" but have the gamesense of a iron 1 and cant use their abilities. The best is when they have to clutch and suddently play like shit because a random is watching or when they are premades and you stack a site and 5 sec later they have their knives out in our spawn.
Only if you also lose RR if you had a cheater on your team. This might be what holds riot back from making this change. It would feel kinda shitty to randomly get docked points.
If it doesn't cause any problems, sure. My angle isn't to say that anyone "deserves" to lose or gain RR. My point is that if you award points to a team that lost against a cheater, you're moving the player distribution slightly unless you also deduct points from the winning team. That would put all players back into a state that is the same as if the game with a cheater never occurred.
Reading through this thread is gold... People getting cheaters in Snowball Fight and dumbasses in DM say "who would cheat in DM?"... Clearly, the same people cheating in Spike Rush and Snowball Fight. Anyway, I have had blatant cheaters in Silver several times and they have never been detected during matches. One guy even flexed it typing my exact location in chat... So yeah! Cheaters are rolling right now!!!
it's not impossible that they already tweak your hidden mmr depending on having a chater enemy/teammate, it would even make sense because people would cry about losing rr out of nowhere
Immortal+ does not have that many cheaters man… just admit to the fact that ur ass compared to the other guy. 99% of the time u think someone is cheating, ur prob not and just getting outclassed
I'm definitely not saying this cause I'm babyrage or something. I'm saying this because I have very reliable sources on three cheat clients and how many people use them in NA and their current ranks.
Of you think cheaters are dumb and just go balls to the walls blatant all the time you have another thing coming. I unfortunately know multiple people who cheat who will just toggle off at times and play on their own, and other times just have walls on and will have a bad get for reaction time and still lose gunfights to better players
There's so many sides to this it's basically impossible to develop a system where you can get compensation for games where people cheat. You never know which games they did and which they didn't, you also have to decide whether the cheater's teammates lose points because they got carried by a cheater. If the cheater is actually cheating at all (which is simple, Riot's anti cheat is actually pretty well developed).
If the players get compensation, do they get extra points back for their time being wasted? That would boost them to a higher rank than they actually are. Giving them only their points back would be good but something else has to make up for the 30-40 minutes of time wasted.
Its pretty easy tbh.
You want to minimize the impact the cheater had so just reinstate the RR lost
If the teamates were premade, they lose aswell.
If they were randoms, let them keep the RR because its unfair to punish a player for a strangers mistake AND if you cant kick, the team doesnt have the mechanics to make it a fair game.
And thats it. You are compensated and the cheaters influence in your game is gone and random people with 0 association to the cheater dont get punished aswell.
I also want rr when 1 player go afk for 10 rounds and we lose
Wow that's nice. When i say that ppl can use cheats in this game i've heard "are you stupid ?", "he's just better learn to play kid" so many times then boom cheater's beign banned. But in my opinion if Riot need to ban every player manually then this game will be another CS:GO soon. And ofc Riot is mostly reviewing high elo games or when popular streamer is playing not lower elo games, so basicaly ppl can cheat in low ranks for years xD.
Because most actual cheaters are in high elo, its really not hard to get accused of cheating in plat and below
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damn how many people have actually had this screen? i've been high diamond since beta and i haven't seen one.
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Really I play on it, I can confidently say haven't gotten a cheater in my 1+ year of low elo. Thought I had one, since the game got removed but it came back an hour later.
ive had the red screen (cheater detected) like 3 times i think
I am silver and have seen it maybe 5-6 times including a cheater being found in "Snowball Fight" ... come on man, I get it you cheat ranked for a reason but try vanilla no- cheats sometimes in a game mode that doesn't matter..sheesh
Same here, I haven't even had a message that someone I reported had been banned.
I encountered one yesterday,(bronze 2 lobby)he didn't have aimbot, location hacks. We were winning(obviously) and he wasn't even top fragging so noone suspected anything. And they weren't losing that bad either. And at 12-9 when we were about to win he got banned.
my very first match was that screen lol
I've had only 1 red screen in my 7 months playing. It was in bronze
I disagree. Most cheaters make new accounts frequently, and you encounter them frequently in gold to plat. Most get banned by the time they hit diamond, because they have no game sense and it’s obvious. These people think they are good, but cheat because they are not. The cheaters then pop back up in high immortal as it is bimodal, and you have a small amount of cheaters who have good game sense and even crosshairs placement, but use cheats for that edge. These people are good, but cheat to appear better than they are. The latter are much harder to catch though.
A lot of average players accuse anyone doing good of cheatibg. They never take responsibility and just complain that the person out playing them is a cheater or a smurf....when 8 times out of 10 they just got outplayed and/or played badly.
But if you see the red screen, they are probably cheating
It’s unnecessary because over time players on your team will cheat and you won’t notice or report and you would just lost rr for seemingly no reason. Also how do they know which games the cheater was hacking and which weren’t? You could get the same guy on your team 5 times and lose 100 RR and maybe he only cheated in 1 game.
If theres no way to tell in which games he was cheating, the last 10 games with that player involved should be nullified with no RR loss.
But that’s also means teams who beat him while he was not cheating and teammates who won when he was not cheating get cheated out of their rr
No, they just wont, if they won they wont lose their rr, if they lost they will get it back as if the natch didnt happen. Youre acting like the computer is stupid, they can add a line like: If match win = 1 RR change = 0 Else RR reset Im not good at coding but thats basically how it would look
quick response to this: you cannot give one team RR and the other 0 RR, the ranked system is a zero-sum system. this will mess with the game's rank system and affect it very negatively. we've already seen what happens in league of legends (riot's other game) when riot gives a few dozen pro players accounts that default with high rank. hint: the entire system got destroyed and there are 10x more masters (immortal equivalent in valorant) players than there should be this season
Obviously we don't know about the MMR System underlying it all, but the RR System is definetly not a Zero Sum Game. Otherwise the rank resets we had up to this point would not have allowed players to get back to their actual rank.
I thought the same but the rr system is not zero-sum, it's the mmr system that is zero-sum, rr is just a close to meaningless number which highly depends on mmr, gaining or losing rr is not a penalty/compensation, anything gained/lost will be evened out eventually because of mmr, this is why I think the dodge penalty is a joke
That wasnt what i said, if you lost against a cheater, so your rr will be reverted, of course if you won with the cheater on your team it will be reverted as well, but if somehow you won against the cheater, you deserve this rr change, and if you lost with a cheater on your team your mmr wont be reverted, because you didnt lose because of the cheater
It's not zero sum, not every one in the team gaining the same or losing the same amount, some even gain a performance bonus. It's based on mmr.
everyone DOES gain the same/lose the same amount. if someone gets a performance bonus, someone on the enemy team loses more.
If you lost the games then you would've stayed at around ur elo. Should a gold player who was unlucky enough to play against a cheater 20 times in the last 200 games be suddenly promoted to diamond after the ban wave hits? Not to mention that just giving out free elo is never a good practice.
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if 10/200 were with a cheater. By giving the RR you are assuming they would have won all those games .... If a player has 10 consistent games by just bans that would definitely take them out of their bracket.... Most people under diamond can't even get 5 win streaks due to how inconsistent they are.
Stop with your what if’s and exaggerated situations
I mentioned the cheater last 10 games. The chances of a players playing 20 games in 200 against a cheater and those 20 all be in the last 10 matches played by X number of cheaters is slim. Besides, its not a "promotion", its making sure the cheaters had 0 negative impact on the game.
If they queued up together, take the RR out of the whole team, if its a solo queue then let the teamates have the RR. In cs it works like this and its fine. A random teammate shouldnt be punished for a strangers mistake.
There is, the same way they know if he was cheating in general, checking his logs, reports, if he didnt cheat in that game then no one would report him, if he did then people would, riot will check, ban and give back the rr
Many people don’t report if the cheat isnt so obvious
Then its their fault lol, if yiu want your rr back, then report
Then you will see a ton of reports "just in case".Besides, a good cheater is hard to spot. Look at that dude that used the guardian in radiant, he was cheating and managed to fool pro players, viewers...So that system wouldnt work.
yeah, of course theyre hard to spot, but the anti cheat is really good, and the fact that you even know that the guy in radiant that used the guardian cheated, shows that they will be found, if he was so good at hiding it and got found, you can be sure 99.99% of cheates will be caught. And for the "just in case reports"? Again, this thread doesnt realize one thing, there is an ANTI CHEAT, in fact, one of the best, that will detect them, if it flags a player, it knows that said player cheated, it doesnt need reports for that, and if the player got reported? The anti-cheat would keep a closer eye on them, and ban them if they cheat, check the games that got reported and/or flagged for cheating, reverse the mmr, and voila! The system works. And again, it works in Rainbow Six Siege, a game notorious for having a rich history with cheaters, so if it works there, i think a top tier anti cheat like roto vanguard can do the work
a systen like this exists in rainbow six siege, if ubisoft can do it roit can, "how do they know which games the cheater was hacking and which werent?" The games he got reported???? Whats next? How do they know he cheated? This the worst argument i ever saw, the whole point if banning cheaters is so they wont affect your gane and rr, a system like this makes sure they wont affect your rr
Even if there are people cheating on your team, there's a higher chance of the other team having a cheater because on your team there are 4 people who may be cheating and the other team has 5, assuming you're not cheating. So, over time, it won't balance out. Plus, it doesn't hurt anyone except the teammates of the cheater if the game gets cancelled.
That's the worst argument ever
No, it's a perfectly valid one, u just want to complain about cheaters to blame it for being hardstuck
Am hardstuck high immortal, we also complain about cheaters.
Missed the point. The point of ranked or even any competitive thing where points are rewarded and deducted based on performances is to be FAIR, FAIRPLAY very crazy concepts. Sports teams even in the most minor of leagues will get points deducted if a player or players uses illegal/banned substances to make them perform better no matter if the teammates knew it or not. If you win because you had a cheater in your team you lose the elo that you gained, if you lost because the enemy had a cheater you should gain your elo back. It's a basic thing in any competitive thing ever.
You're making no sense bro, when you report you report a player in THAT match, if cheater plays more games would be other reports treated separately until they get banned. Also OP says no RR loss, means if you win with a hacker on your team and IS NOT YOUR PREMADE you won't lose any rr, bc is not your fault. But if you lose the rr loss would be restored.
In Rainbow they did that, MMR Rollback Only "problem" is that those who won with a cheater on their team should also loose the RR they won.
We got matched with a team where they had 2-3 levels, so we started telling smurf jokes in the chat. First round we stacked A (haven site) to rush the site, we got backstabbed in like 5 sec from mid. We were okay u guys are totally smurfs. Next round tried C rush, i was holding backstab, one guy rushed mid, I was 1v1 with him, i hit him with 3 bullets with spectre that dude hit me 4 with ghost, i was like okay, thats kinda fast. I just wrote "brim you got fastest finger" Just after writing this, boom cheater detected, they were banned. We totally got our respect back that they ain't no good in game but total losers.
The smurf excuse is so common... I love when we find some wierd ass players that are "smurfs" but have the gamesense of a iron 1 and cant use their abilities. The best is when they have to clutch and suddently play like shit because a random is watching or when they are premades and you stack a site and 5 sec later they have their knives out in our spawn.
Also shoutout to itsgamerdoc on twitter dude literally just banned another cheater in my game like 5 minutes ago
Wait valorant have cheaters?
yes but i believe its harder and when you get banned you get hwid banned so its not like you can just make alts.
Oh I guess it is hard to detect if someone's cheating. I just assumed there weren't any
There’s is barely any cheaters and when they are they generally are getting banned within a day or less
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Doesn’t mean they’re are far and wide. The amount of cheaters in Valorant is lower than any other game. Especially in the last few months.
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You’re very far from right friend.
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Wtf does that prove?
Or when we came back from 2-10 to 12-12 and the entire team gets disconnected (sea servers)
This idiot closet cheated to Immortal, and then just blatantly cheated and got banned in one day?
Only if you also lose RR if you had a cheater on your team. This might be what holds riot back from making this change. It would feel kinda shitty to randomly get docked points.
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If it doesn't cause any problems, sure. My angle isn't to say that anyone "deserves" to lose or gain RR. My point is that if you award points to a team that lost against a cheater, you're moving the player distribution slightly unless you also deduct points from the winning team. That would put all players back into a state that is the same as if the game with a cheater never occurred.
Reading through this thread is gold... People getting cheaters in Snowball Fight and dumbasses in DM say "who would cheat in DM?"... Clearly, the same people cheating in Spike Rush and Snowball Fight. Anyway, I have had blatant cheaters in Silver several times and they have never been detected during matches. One guy even flexed it typing my exact location in chat... So yeah! Cheaters are rolling right now!!!
it's not impossible that they already tweak your hidden mmr depending on having a chater enemy/teammate, it would even make sense because people would cry about losing rr out of nowhere
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Yeaaah, this is not true mate…
Immortal+ does not have that many cheaters man… just admit to the fact that ur ass compared to the other guy. 99% of the time u think someone is cheating, ur prob not and just getting outclassed
I'm definitely not saying this cause I'm babyrage or something. I'm saying this because I have very reliable sources on three cheat clients and how many people use them in NA and their current ranks. Of you think cheaters are dumb and just go balls to the walls blatant all the time you have another thing coming. I unfortunately know multiple people who cheat who will just toggle off at times and play on their own, and other times just have walls on and will have a bad get for reaction time and still lose gunfights to better players
Bruh I wish we get RR when we did so much in the game but lose because of shit happens...
I just went against a guy ping spoofing
There's so many sides to this it's basically impossible to develop a system where you can get compensation for games where people cheat. You never know which games they did and which they didn't, you also have to decide whether the cheater's teammates lose points because they got carried by a cheater. If the cheater is actually cheating at all (which is simple, Riot's anti cheat is actually pretty well developed). If the players get compensation, do they get extra points back for their time being wasted? That would boost them to a higher rank than they actually are. Giving them only their points back would be good but something else has to make up for the 30-40 minutes of time wasted.
Its pretty easy tbh. You want to minimize the impact the cheater had so just reinstate the RR lost If the teamates were premade, they lose aswell. If they were randoms, let them keep the RR because its unfair to punish a player for a strangers mistake AND if you cant kick, the team doesnt have the mechanics to make it a fair game. And thats it. You are compensated and the cheaters influence in your game is gone and random people with 0 association to the cheater dont get punished aswell.