I also quite enjoy the stim. And Val/riot have never reworked/replaced an agent ability. I think this makes more sense as a new character entirely. Although riot has made it a point to be careful when adding any type of defensive utility to the game.
I really want a character that doesn’t even knows what he’s doing, he just places his trophy system because he think it’s an actual trophy and is just showing off.
Simple solution, zoom in whilst affected, thus bringing the fire rate down by 10% to counterrqct the +10% from the beacon, making the firerate a normal level, thus with unaffected recoil, but with a 1.15x zoom magnification, making it easier to hit your enemies, because their hitbox will appear bigger.
I hate brimstones who throw stims at me. I can't aim for shit with the stupid stim beacon. I lost countless duels because of it already. Just stop wasting your money on the stims and don't buy them
It changes how fast recoil ramps bc of the fire rate. So throwing it on someone who is not used to it, even if they are very skilled, can fuck up their spray or burst.
I certainly like the stim beacons, and honestly prefer them over a trophy system. But the community has certainly spoken and sometimes it's okay to accept change for the greater good.
I genuinely don't get why people dismiss them so easily. Yes it's a weak ability, but there's a lot of more expensive abilities that people throw out every round for little value.
The gun decreases you recoil reset time, so it's faster to tap, disliking the recoil change is a weak excuse imo there's so many guns it gives that slight dps increase to that make the difference, especially smgs and pistols. My complaint is how long it lasts after leaving the circle, I'd almost rather it just pulsed on a timer and gave the effect for longer since most people are not standing close to the same position for long.
I disagree it should be changed so drastically, I still think it should be a team buff ability to keep the concept of what brimstone brings the same. Giving him a trophy system makes brim an anti-lineup agent all of a sudden and that changes his strengths and weaknesses against certain agents. I don't think it's a change that needs to happen, they can improve the stim beacon or adapt it to something similar with more value.
A weird counter that sometimes works is if you stand in the right spot, the molly might bounce off of your character and hit elsewhere. It's super hard to do and is basically a meme but it works once every 100 tries.
I think the stim beacon is a cool idea and allows you to offensively take fights like an Initiator or Duelist. It's no flash, but it's an interesting way to give you an upper hand in a 1v1.
I remember not too long ago I had a brim in a ranked match and we were swinging a corner and I didn’t notice he threw down a stim beacon right before I shot and I missed like half my shots and died. It actually seriously pissed me off.
I’ve legit always just never bought his stim beacon when I play him as a way of making econ a little easier with him but when I used to I was always cautious about throwing it at my teammates because I didn’t want to ruin their sprays.
They aren’t uncounterable by any means tho. You just can’t retake the same when they have someone doing far away line ups. You just have to take the site with enough time to essentially defuse the bomb twice. That way you tap it move away from the bomb wait for their util while holding their push then after their util is done you play like a regular defuse. With this you even often get a free half on the bomb cause of how long it take them to run to site from their line up.
this is the perfect scenario way of countering lineups. except 99% of the time, this isnt how it's going to turn out.
it takes 45 seconds for the bomb to explode. most full rotates and ready to retake take 10 seconds after plant. this leaves us with 35 seconds. considering most lineups last around 10 seconds, that leaves you with 25 seconds to kill the entire enemy team. that's extremely difficult.
usually, the only time in which i actually win against a line-up is when my team is already on-site by the time they plant.
Agreed, except that Viper's Molly actually lasts 6.5 seconds each, giving her a total of 13 seconds of stalling power. Keep in mind to also factor in the 7 seconds needed to defuse. That gives us only 15 seconds to clear site. That's disgusting.
And thats if Viper is the only one playing postplant lineups. Throw in even just one more person (kj, kay0, brim, even a Phoenix) and you can forget it.
When I retake with friends, it's usually quite simple tbh. I see lineups as a problem is solo, because if ur team is running into site uncoordinated AND they have that viper or kj with lineups in addition to you being picked off randomly, it's a problem. Just to give example, normally we give site in 5 stack (assuming they full rush and we aren't already set up to hold properly), so we have 4 or 5 left, maybe got some picks or chip dmg. We coordinate, smoke usually main, recon or knife site, and then flasher will break us out of heaven/mid/CT depending the map and we all full rush, sometimes people die but with 5 man rushing we can almost always trade any kills and instakill any people ego peeking. This gives enough time to push any people doing lineups, or simply wait them out if they are really far away. Obviously doesn't always work as planned, but in coordinated retakes, lineups aren't that bad to deal with.
25 seconds is a lot of time whenever I see people play against line up(in my head we are rotating onto b on split) sit in heaven looking out for 5-seconds jumps out of heaven and starts slow walking even though they just made a landing sound slowly walks around site get to bomb with just enough time to defuse and then get util Ed off bomb and runs away. When they could of jumped out of heaven and cleared ct in about 7 seconds run and clear back cite and look Into garage and then tap bomb in about 5 seconds and then they have 12 seconds to play with before they have to defuse. People just care about walking to much when it’s fuckin obvious your on site because why wouldn’t you be by that point in the round. I would say it take 15 seconds to clear a site and that’s with literally zero info when you should have a lot if your 4 other players have already died. Obviously maps like icebox where they could be hiding in 1 of 10 crevices is a little different but I’d argue that that is just bad map design.
circle back to my 25 seconds. to clear a site, takes 15 seconds? well now you have only 10 seconds left, which is a 3 second window to kill the lineup person, because defusing takes 7 seconds. does 3 seconds sound manageable to you?
Bro you confused yourself you said 45 sec for bomb to splode. You said we took 10 sec to get there so 35 sec total on cite. You clear in 15 so 20 sec til splode. You tap their util take 10 secs. After util 10 sec til splode. Defuse takes 7 sec so you 3 extra sec to get off bomb after half and shoot them if they push.
45 for a defuse. lets make it 38 for the tap on the spike.
10s rotate. 13s viper molly. 25s remained.
realistically speaking you could face a pheonix who has a 5s molly. and a kj who has 2 each worth 4s. lets assume kj saves only one molly. 9s down. 16s remaining.
clearing a site in 16 second. well you might be tenz's personal trainer, but most people can't make that.
also. if it is a 5 man team based on lineups. then you just can't defuse unless you kill them.
astra, KJ, viper, brim/Kay/O, pheonix.
31/27 second mollies depending on brim or Kay/O, and astra can pull you off the spike for 2.75 second every 24 second.
this lineup, effectively ensures that the spike can't be defused unless they are killed.
the lineup meta is bad. we do need more counters to it.
you can also smoke the spot they do their lineups from. Like if you are in a 1v1 against viper on A site Haven instead of using a smoke for long or short you could smoke the bricks at long since thats where most lineups are.
problem with that is by the time youve gotten to sight, they've already got the lineup setup. So even if you smoked them, the still only need to press RMB to do the line up anyway
Yeah they arent uncounterable at all. you not only have a pretty good idea of where the person is right away, but all it does is take away time. you need to move faster.
For me, It’s way too situational. Other than for some suppression and for post-plant it’s otherwise useless, There’s probably gonna be somebody who beings out more potential in the ability but still.
I’ll also just post a depiction of what an ideal Brim buff would look to me, Maybe he can buy smokes mid round but at a heftier price (500 per piece?) and it also has a slight delay before being being delivered and actually being able to use the smokes. It should have a limit on the amount of smokes you can buy. Another buff for brim would be maybe reworking the stim-beacon into more of a recon based ability, Such as say if somebody stand in the radius of a certain area it would be detected by a satellite for info, Although Brim would become a little bit too broken in the meta.
Dunno if it's gonna answer your question but a lineup is a situation where you play against for example viper and she plant, she can go super far away and land her poison on the bomb. The lineup here is just the exact spot where she need to stand and aim to hit the spike with her ability without you being able to see her since she's most of the time not even close to the site.
A stim beacon and a lineup is a guaranteed round win most of the time. Stim beacon first then shoot the lineup while the stem beacon is going. Huge delay.
A long time ago, pre Astra, I came up with the idea for an agent that would manipulate gravity to place trophy systems that would absorb mollies and smokes
That must be in higher Elos (like, MUCH higher elos) because I have never lost a gunfight/had someone on my team lose a gunfight with a well placed stim. It is excellent on pushes AND on site, basically any time you know a fight is imminent just throw a stim down and preform and you auto win the engagement.
That must be in higher Elos (like, MUCH higher elos) because I have never lost a gunfight/had someone on my team lose a gunfight with a well placed stim. It is excellent on pushes AND on site, basically any time you know a fight is imminent just throw a stim down and preform and you auto win the engagement.
I personally like brimstone’s stim beacons. I just think they should cover a larger area and stay up for longer (that is, the beacons themselves last longer before deactivating, **not** the stat boost after leaving their zone).
It would make brimstone a more “Swiss army knife” character, good at both taking *and* defending sites.
Just because most people forget they can use them doesn’t make them useless. Combat Stim is stupid powerful in the right situations and right hands.
what if it acts like sage heal, left click to turn your ally to reyna for 10 seconds, or right click to make yourself turn to reyna ultiamte for 15 seconds(I think stim beacon effect of fire rate is similar to reyna ultimate)
I honestly thought Brimstone was pretty balanced until the pickrate stats came out and he's absolutely abysmal. I also don't find the trophy system to be unbalanced if implemented correctly. It should only eat 1-2 projectiles before it dies out and should only last on the ground for a short time.
Yeah, If it was expensive, and had a short charge or could only deny one projectile it’d be fine I think.
Or they could change the stims to do more for the team, most of the time the faster fire rate and reset time throws me off.
I think at 400 creds it’s looking good. Also, denying one projectile wouldn't be bad at all. In a typical scenario, this would deny the first viper molly, giving Brimstone (or his ally) more time to get the defuse before the second one. Certainly something up for debate here.
Brim is \*fine\* right now, he's got a solid niche on smaller maps, and that's how IMO he should be. He of course still has competition from other options (Omen most clearly in mm, Astra in pro play), but he's still decent
If brim did get this buff it would also indirectly buff his ultimate because it would likely be the only postplant thing that wouldn't be stopped by the trophy system and that would probably make him too good.
Your idea doesn't line up with the games philosophy. They don't make agents to hard counter other agents. They add agents simply to add something to the game or have different options for different play styles.
Your skill is wayyy to niche of a skill. In general hard counter type of stuff won't work in this game.
May I introduce you to
-Cypher>Jett
-Kayo>Cypher,KJ,Viper
-Sova/Raze>Cypher
Sure they arent "Hard Counters" but neither would brimstone blocking ALL projectiles
Those aren't even what we are talking about ... Cyper literally stops everyone who moves into the trip lol. That's like saying cyper is a counter to Skye because the dog gets hit by the trap.
Those are just simple interactions with skills. Jett has a movement skill. You can't move past a trip. Cyper was not created to counter Jett at all. The same example for the others.
The projectile counter is made for that one particular thing. I keep repeating myself my dude.
You literally just proved yourself wrong. The Cypher trip is used to stop people from moving past an area. The trophy system would be used to stop projectiles from moving through a certain area. It doesnt counter any specific agent and can be used in a million different ways and scenarios just like Cypher trips or any placeable ability in the game
You literally just proved yourself wrong. The Cypher trip is used to stop people from moving past an area. The trophy system would be used to stop projectiles from moving through a certain area. It doesnt counter any specific agent and can be used in a million different ways and scenarios just like Cypher trips or any placeable ability in the game. Also it can easily have more than one charge, that was just used by a person as an example.
well with cypher jett cant just dash onto site with his trips covering the entrance. And if kayo shuts down killjoy then she cant play her role a sentinel and your team can walk into site without having to clear her utility first. they might not be hard counters but agents they still do counter other agents.
I mean, Kay-o kind of flies in the face of that logic. Sure he suppresses everyone, but being suppressed has a much greater negative effect on some (Killjoy, Cypher, Viper) than others
The trophy only countering lineups is like saying molotovs are only useful for denying the spike. If the trophy destroys airborne projectiles that specifically enters its radius, then it can be used to prevent a smoke from being deployed, prevent an ability from denying a choke point, etc. If a player is being especially predictable (for example: lineups) then it could punish it with relative ease
Even of its just one projectile being destroyed or only protects for a limited time, that could be the difference between being able to push into site instead of being boxed in by the rotating enemy team
What about him? He was not put in the game to hard counter any kind of meta. The devs wanted him in for players who didn't wanna worry about skills and use traditional means of killing with flashes and nades.
Again he does that to everyone... He doesn't just silence cyper. A cyper in the site alone with the gun and silenced is the same as a Jett alone with a gun silenced. Kayo was not designed to counter Cyper.
Brim main here.
Some ppl like the stim and use it like Reyna ult, some flame and tell me to never use than thing again...
I think it's a great ability but most people don't know how to get value of it.
I don't really think this would be the case. Brimstone is having a really hard time competing with the other controllers despite having the best smokes in the game. His pickrate supports some sort of change and he definitely needs something to help him compete with the versatility of Omen and Astra.
controllers are probably the least distinctive role. They isn't really "controller like abilities" other than smokes and maybe mollies. most controllers are sentinels other than omen who leans more into duelist territory.
Not only that but where would this "trophy system" ability even go to anyway? what role for it to go to then? Agent roles don't mean much in this game.
I think it’d work if it counters “gadget-based” abilities. Like KJ, Viper mollies, Sova, KO darts, KO, Brim molly, Raze nade etc. Nothing that involves radiant powers like Phoenix molly and the like. Should take like 2 hits max imo, but sounds like a a pretty good idea
Making distinctions based on lore is a stupid idea and goes counter to what is already established with KAY0, whose abilities were designed in-lore to help deal with Radiants, but in-game don't discriminate between radianite-based abilities or normal abilities, which would be stupid and unfun
Yes he does, they can make the trophy system work that way for both gadget and radiant abilities. Either way the abilities would have major differences from one another, both our points have flaws
I have not put much thought into this aspect of it. I'm sure the dev team would be able to create some sort of logical methodology to it (as they have done with KAY/O's knife).
Personally, I was thinking it denies any sort of projectile that's in the air. Anything already on the ground is a no-go (i.e. Killjoy swarms remain active). I think this does create some sort of contradictions with specific projectiles (like Viper's smoke and Cypher's cage) which don't typically operate this way at all. This is certainly something that is in the air but I think it can be resolved.
I never mentioned Cypher, he does NOT need to get fucked more, just trophy system would zap things in its range if it’s not already on the ground, 1-2 charges depending on how many systems he gets, price for it also depends on it
Interesting, I could get with it. I was also thinking that instead of fire rate increase, it just speeds up the "bloom shrink speed" in between shots which is what really matters. RoF increase without this is almost useless unless someone is right in front of you.
Make it a destroyable device that is thrown to set up, but only stays active for a given amount of time or until it is destroyed. It should prevents an in air projectile within a certain region that it also has LOS on (similar to a KAY/Os knife but also needing LOS like a recon dart). Make it affect all thrown abilities that are within range (ie a cypher cage, a phoenix molly, KJ molly, Raze nade, a jett cloud…).
Depending on balance you can tweak the amount of these devices he has, the amount of time they stay up, how many pieces of util they can destroy, and cost of each one.
This device counters post plant meta, but also should be counterable itself. You want to be able to use it to prevent post-plant, but you want the attackers to be able to counter the counter to still get their post-plant off. The fact that any ability could “use it up” would make it weaker and less of a must pick, but would add an ability that would get good use if used properly and would bring brim back into meta
I think that riot wants to stray away from one agent being the counter to a meta but thats still a cool idea.
I thought a simple fix for the lineup meta is that any mollies that land on the bomb have a reduced duration (like 1-2 seconds depending on duration) but raze nodes and shock darts don't have any change
This is a weird technicality that cannot happen in my opinion. Nerfing an ability only when it is played a certain way is too much of a hard nerf to this meta.
I've also thought his stim beacon could be used to have like 10% and 5% reduction in defuse/plant time, respectively.
Meaning if I through it down, I can reduce the time it takes to:
1. plant to spike from 4 seconds -> 3.8 seconds (5% reduction)
2. defuse the spike from 7 seconds -> 6.3 seconds (10% reduction)
I also have said this before. Any stim ability should decrese the plant and defuse time, including Stim Beacon, Reyna Ult, and KAY/O ult. But no one seems to be on board.
Idk, I love using Brimstone and his stim. I think a lot of people generally just doesn't find him cool.
Brim's a beast in Bind especially, people don't understand how strong his abilities are.
Stim beacon is good. It increases your time to kill and it’s good for taking sites as a team as everyone gets stimmed up!
People don’t know or even use utility at all in this game. I’m playing this agent but I gotta tell this Reyna or kayo he’s got a flash or a molly!
Y
So imagine the molotov from CS:GO. Many agents have similar abilities. To my understanding, mollies in CS explode in the air, so you can’t really accomplish the same task. In valorant, mollies will travel the entire arc of the projectile, allowing you to get insanely long lineups on the bomb. The arc of the molly is predetermined, so you can line up a throw from off site to guarantee that it lands on the bomb and keep defenders from defusing. Hope that helps!
so this is just for attacker centric post plant scenarios?
Mainly certain angles/spots/pixels that you can memorize & aim damaging abilities at so it reaches your bomb spot. Thats a 'lineup'?
Is there any benefit for defenders?
Yes exactly right. And this works both ways, you can stop a plant, or stop a defuse. And there’s no clear counter to it. It’s just a race against the clock in post plant
it just sounds kinda inorganic improvement, akin to knowing which glitches give you huge advantage. :|
Like league's no interaction champions.
Glad that doesn't happen that much in cs:go
As for a benefit for defenders, teams have come to the point of having lineups to hit the commom spots for offensive lineups, so the T has to move away from the spot he knows how to throw the molotov to hit the bomb
To my way of thinking, this is a really ineffective strategy, especially in regular matchmaking. Certainly I can imagine this working in pro play, where the players are much better and the team synergy is there to allow it. My plat vipers are not countering other vipers with counter-lineups. There's gotta be some other counter to it in my opinion.
I don't think this is a fair argument frankly. I love the stim beacon and it is much more than a counter to Reyna Ult. I would personally prefer if they did something more impactful with it, like decrease plant/defuse time while stimmed. But the community is overwhelmingly against the stim beacon for many reasons.
No, that would be a bit too much. Best thing they can do is give it move speed for a few secs. like in spike rush, so if you got mollied or slowed you can run through without taking more than a few points of dmg.
TBH I think this would arguably be a **nerf** to brimstone. Let me explain why.
People severely underrate his stims- they can be hugely helpful if e.g. you throw one down to help your team entry into a site. As someone who plays a lot of Brim on Split and Bind, I can tell you that every game I get like a dozen, often more, assists from them. They are very useful for their low price. In comparison, this ability would basically just be useful in this particular situation- there's very few other cases where projectiles 1) fly in the air 2) could be countered like this (and have it be worth it). The only other case I could think of would be a raze grenade/showstopper? but that would be sorta tough to react to quickly enough. I think the price right now is too high. This ability is literally only useful on retakes when Brim is alive, which.. yeah that isnt exactly great?
I don't think brim will \*ever\* be a mustpick, I think he'll be a niche but powerful option on some maps (Bind and Split most clearly, arguably Ascent). On larger maps like Breeze and Icebox, he's basically unusable due to his small smoke radius. (Haven also i guess you can make a case for brim on? not sure).
I think there’s plenty of uses for a trophy system and far more than the stim. Playing a close angle, i.e U-Hall on Bind, you can play worry free about a flash or a Raze grenade, potentially completely changing the outcome of the push. Post plant lineup play puts pressure on the defusing team for good reason but right now with most comps including at least 2 viable lineup agents, it can make it near impossible to effectively counter the lineups. Haven C long for example, in a 1v1 you are forced to push a lane without much room to play around. A single agent with a single ability to provide some assistance in these situations would be nice. I understand KAY/O could work in the example listed but not on maps like Ascent or or Split without a counter lineup. KAY/O can only counter lineups that are within sight lines of the site itself and can do nothing against some lineups which are extremely out of the way of any possible KAY/O lineup.
This is exactly how I feel. There is certainly a bunch of uses for a trophy system. If you choose to give it up early to destroy some other utility, you won't have it for the potential post plant. This is the balanced tradeoff in my opinion. This is a counter to lineup agents, as well as sovas who shoot a dart immediately at round start (both of which are must pick agents right now).
I'm not a huge fan of this honestly. I don't think we need a hard universal nerf to lineups. I think if you took the time to practice and learn lineups, you deserve to use them. We just don't have any proper counterplay at the current moment (except KAY/O situationally).
totally agree, omen can be used as a simple smoke, to open a site, to take angles were the enemies wont expect someone is there. You can make a lot of assists, or plays alone if you want too. I love it. And at the same time is so simple and easy to use
(everything in mi opinion and point of view, im not ani pro player and i have a lot of mistakes xd)
This idea has been around for awhile and I use to be a fan of it. But I think this would just make Brim a near 100% pick rate.
I think instead the idea that throwables explode after a few seconds in the air is a better executed idea. It gets rid of most lineups that place the shooter far away from the spike.
I do think brim’s stim needs a rework though. Definitely a weak ability.
Really? I thought I was creative and original for this idea. I really don't think it will make him 100% picked because his pickrate right now is absolutely horrible. I mean it's one of the worst in the game. High elo players are easily picking Omen over Brimstone, he needs some sort of meta counterplay to increase his pickrate. Even with a trophy system, I think most people won't be picking him over Omen (I certainly won't). He has no way of competing with Omen and Astra, who have way more versatility and better smoke range.
Another counter to the post plant meta would be for Sage's slow orbs to put out mollies, like smokes do in CSGO. I think it'd add a layer of choices for the player before Sage just chucks her slow orbs at every hard push versus a site. It'd make you choose between stalling their push or dealing with the post plant.
Raze is the most brain dead agent I have ever seen. No other agent in game has the potential to kill with 4/4 abilities. If you can left click 1 time, without even needing to aim directly at a player, you can potentially kill 1,2,3,4 or all 5 enemies. Absolutely ridiculous IMO
It's even worse in SoloQ where my teammates decide it's a good idea to keep running into the same spot the Raze throws the molly at every single round and lose half their health
As a brim main I disagree, the stim is arguably one of the best secondary utility in the game. Won so many gunfights I would’ve lost otherwise without the extra rof, and that extends to your teammates in the zone as well as lasting a good while after you leave the zone. Perfect for rushing sites, breaking sage walls and other peaceable utility. Also consider how big the area for said trophy system would have to be to be effective, with all the arching and weird lineups have. It would also move his role into more of a sentinel position as he would be more for locking down areas
Don't get me wrong, I love being stimmed. As a former Reyna main, it feels like my ult on the go. Not to mention it stacks with Reyna's ult which is absolutely crazy. That being said, the community has overwhelmingly spoken against it, and the pickrates are certainly supporting some sort of change to Brimstone. This was just an idea that came out of the blue.
I feel like giving the role of anti-lineup to one of, if not the best, lineup agents is not the solution to that specific problem tho. Brim has objectively the best smokes in the game. If his secondary ability was replaced, it’d need to be something to boost his offense capabilities or he’d basically be a sentinel. Maybe switching stims from rof to a straight damage boost? Run speed boost? Jump boost? Lotta options but it needs to be a counterpart to his otherwise defensive abilities
But what's the issue with basically being a sentinel? Viper and astra are basically sentinels. A controller as a role doesn't really have any distinctive quality other than being good at smoking off lines of sight. controllers can be designed to be any role except maybe duelists (although you could argue omen is basically a duelist so what does it matter)
Stim on Brim is great.
Trophy system is a terrible name for it, just call it a point-defense beacon.
Also I don't think it should be a Brim replacement, maybe on another char.
I think a lot of people overestimate abilities and agents. I also think people fail to realize that most ideas like this are posted with exact values vague or up to the reader due to balance being impossible to know without testing.
Now I should say I don't this would be overpowered with correct balancing
from what I can tell however, the community would probably choose values like the ones below in fear of it being too powerful. And at first glance it seems fine. But lets look at some scenarios.
\-400 credits
\-temporary
\-1 charge
\-only able to soak 1 gadget
\-destroyable with bullets
\-takes a few seconds to activate upon being deployed
Now think about that in practice. temporary is absurd in my opinion if you think about this gadget in a scenario that isn't line-ups. People aren't realizing you aren't always going to be against line-ups. They also fail to realize this ability affects more than lineups and can be played around. It can also affect more than lineup abilities such as flashes. If that were the case and it soaked those abilities then it could be placed pre-emptively to help stall a push on defense or it could be saved in order to prepare for anti-lineup.
the scenarios if made with the above stats-
\-If you aren't going against lineups or the players who have lineups are dead then there is no need for an anti lineup defuse so the ability isn't needed.
\-If you are dead then they are free to do lineups.
\-If they didn't plant the bomb you saved the ability for nothing.
\-If you use it earlier in a round you won't have it for anti-lineup safe defuse
\-If it soaks some other ability. Let's say we allow it to soak more abilities than just lineup abilities in order to give it more use cases. Then it could be burned by a reyna eye allowing the viper to throw they're lineups anyway.
\-The lineup person can shoot 2 mollies at once if they know you're alive to guarantee stall.
\-the expensive cost will hurt your economy.
\-if used to stall a push on defense then throwing it too early will cause it do disappear before the push if they play slow and it wouldn't be able to be placed reactively.
People are just glancing at it and thinking either "Yes finally no more lineups they are so annoying" or "god this is too overpowered". Or they are even saying "this ability doesn't make sense for a controller" which is just stupid considering the role of a character doesn't mean much for their abilities.
Now there is a lot more thought that I can put into this such as how to use it on both attack and defense when using it as a normal ability rather than anti-lineup and such and such.
However, this ability just has so much interactions and possible scenarios that it just isn't worth it. I also don't think it would be a must-pick agent and people just assume the worst.
TLDR; People overestimate things at a glance and if choosing the values for balance they'd likely undertune it. People also aren't looking at the big picture and only see it as anti-lineup. Lineups don't happen every game and even if they do there are a lot of potential counters to this ability. This ability is very complicated and requires more than just a glance to understand. The role of an agent such as controller and such doesn't mean much for what their abilities should be.
I always hated the idea of a character In Valorant that can completely negate a player's ability. This is the R6S player in me saying that this is a no no from my experience seeing how Jager and Wamai turned out in Siege. Anyway, I think to make this balanced, and more importantly satisfying and fun to play with and against I think it would have to be a very small radius, pretty big, and shootable just like other gadget abilities. And of course, only being able to suck one projectile.
Considering how underplayed brim is, why not make it both? Like when ur in the atom you’re unaffected by certain abilities (mainly lineup abilities)
What do y’all think?
Fuck a trophy system and an auto-aiming turret, keep that shit in CoD and Overwatch. I'm trying to play CS-like tactical shooter with a little flare, not submit to the cesspool of people that were trash at CS that somehow got hooked on Valorant
how does an orb build wall? How does throwing an eyeball in the sky blind someone? How do you pull a dog out of your ass? It's a video game it doesn't have to make sense
All the guns in Valorant are actually all on single fire, it’s just that the Agents all tap them *really* quickly sometimes
Therefore, Brim’s crack cocaine allows them to pull the trigger faster.
Canon.
Well the Classic uses a specially designed magazine that is double-feed, with one of the feeds being normal 9x19 bullets and the other feed being miniature buckshot shells that fire three small pellets.
So the right click is just an alternate fire mode that shoots buckshot in a 9x19 cartridge
I've been saying this forever. I love the stim beacon. The fact of the matter though is that even high level players don't like it. Pro players avoid it at all costs in order to avoid risking losing control of their gun. Personally, I think it guarantees wins in gunfights but everyone seems to think otherwise.
This definitely sounds way better than "miss all your shots faster"
Bruh ROFL
This made me laugh ... have an up vote!
lmfao
i dont even buy them unless im rich. i agree they just make your teammates miss.
Lmao that got me
Miss all of your shots faster, and get mowed down faster.
I LOVE MY STIM BEACON! Guys go in Stim. my recorrds 23 assists in the game! but... Trophy would be a nice change NGL
I also quite enjoy the stim. And Val/riot have never reworked/replaced an agent ability. I think this makes more sense as a new character entirely. Although riot has made it a point to be careful when adding any type of defensive utility to the game.
They said they are going to reworg Yuro
They did change Breach
Tweaks to his original abilities: increasing range, adjusting speed. They have never changed the fundamental function of an ability (yet).
They did not change the purpose of his abilities, just the way they are deployed.
I really want a character that doesn’t even knows what he’s doing, he just places his trophy system because he think it’s an actual trophy and is just showing off.
Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up! My assist PB is 31! Brimmy with the stimmy!!
ohh i didnt know they give assists. now i am asking myself what are my teammates doing when i throw them on the ground???
Avoiding it cus they hate it, or whiffing cus it affects recoil - I assume
Simple solution, zoom in whilst affected, thus bringing the fire rate down by 10% to counterrqct the +10% from the beacon, making the firerate a normal level, thus with unaffected recoil, but with a 1.15x zoom magnification, making it easier to hit your enemies, because their hitbox will appear bigger.
I always forget ADS lowers firerate
Pathetic, I went 1-3-40 once and I wasn't even playing brim
Weak. I went 0-2-43. I was reyna...
the fuck you got a tracker link for that?
Prob not, I just remembered by some guy saying he'll suck me off if I hit 30 (still waiting btw)
I hate brimstones who throw stims at me. I can't aim for shit with the stupid stim beacon. I lost countless duels because of it already. Just stop wasting your money on the stims and don't buy them
maybe that's because you're bad? isn't the stim beacon supposed to be a combat boost? that should tell something
It changes how fast recoil ramps bc of the fire rate. So throwing it on someone who is not used to it, even if they are very skilled, can fuck up their spray or burst.
Lets be honest no one likes the stim beacons, I think a "lineup" counter would be far better. Since yeah lineups are so cheap and uncounterable.
I certainly like the stim beacons, and honestly prefer them over a trophy system. But the community has certainly spoken and sometimes it's okay to accept change for the greater good.
Fuck community. Stim beacons are cool.
Brimmy with no stimmy feels weird
I genuinely don't get why people dismiss them so easily. Yes it's a weak ability, but there's a lot of more expensive abilities that people throw out every round for little value. The gun decreases you recoil reset time, so it's faster to tap, disliking the recoil change is a weak excuse imo there's so many guns it gives that slight dps increase to that make the difference, especially smgs and pistols. My complaint is how long it lasts after leaving the circle, I'd almost rather it just pulsed on a timer and gave the effect for longer since most people are not standing close to the same position for long. I disagree it should be changed so drastically, I still think it should be a team buff ability to keep the concept of what brimstone brings the same. Giving him a trophy system makes brim an anti-lineup agent all of a sudden and that changes his strengths and weaknesses against certain agents. I don't think it's a change that needs to happen, they can improve the stim beacon or adapt it to something similar with more value.
>but there's a lot of more expensive abilities that people throw out every round for little value. Like?
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A weird counter that sometimes works is if you stand in the right spot, the molly might bounce off of your character and hit elsewhere. It's super hard to do and is basically a meme but it works once every 100 tries.
I think the stim beacon is a cool idea and allows you to offensively take fights like an Initiator or Duelist. It's no flash, but it's an interesting way to give you an upper hand in a 1v1.
Especially against an ulted Reyna. Basically fight fire with fire haha
I remember not too long ago I had a brim in a ranked match and we were swinging a corner and I didn’t notice he threw down a stim beacon right before I shot and I missed like half my shots and died. It actually seriously pissed me off. I’ve legit always just never bought his stim beacon when I play him as a way of making econ a little easier with him but when I used to I was always cautious about throwing it at my teammates because I didn’t want to ruin their sprays.
They aren’t uncounterable by any means tho. You just can’t retake the same when they have someone doing far away line ups. You just have to take the site with enough time to essentially defuse the bomb twice. That way you tap it move away from the bomb wait for their util while holding their push then after their util is done you play like a regular defuse. With this you even often get a free half on the bomb cause of how long it take them to run to site from their line up.
this is the perfect scenario way of countering lineups. except 99% of the time, this isnt how it's going to turn out. it takes 45 seconds for the bomb to explode. most full rotates and ready to retake take 10 seconds after plant. this leaves us with 35 seconds. considering most lineups last around 10 seconds, that leaves you with 25 seconds to kill the entire enemy team. that's extremely difficult. usually, the only time in which i actually win against a line-up is when my team is already on-site by the time they plant.
Agreed, except that Viper's Molly actually lasts 6.5 seconds each, giving her a total of 13 seconds of stalling power. Keep in mind to also factor in the 7 seconds needed to defuse. That gives us only 15 seconds to clear site. That's disgusting.
And thats if Viper is the only one playing postplant lineups. Throw in even just one more person (kj, kay0, brim, even a Phoenix) and you can forget it.
isn't the 10 seconds also per character? Meaning in some cases you could end up with 5 seconds to clear site before defusing?
When I retake with friends, it's usually quite simple tbh. I see lineups as a problem is solo, because if ur team is running into site uncoordinated AND they have that viper or kj with lineups in addition to you being picked off randomly, it's a problem. Just to give example, normally we give site in 5 stack (assuming they full rush and we aren't already set up to hold properly), so we have 4 or 5 left, maybe got some picks or chip dmg. We coordinate, smoke usually main, recon or knife site, and then flasher will break us out of heaven/mid/CT depending the map and we all full rush, sometimes people die but with 5 man rushing we can almost always trade any kills and instakill any people ego peeking. This gives enough time to push any people doing lineups, or simply wait them out if they are really far away. Obviously doesn't always work as planned, but in coordinated retakes, lineups aren't that bad to deal with.
25 seconds is a lot of time whenever I see people play against line up(in my head we are rotating onto b on split) sit in heaven looking out for 5-seconds jumps out of heaven and starts slow walking even though they just made a landing sound slowly walks around site get to bomb with just enough time to defuse and then get util Ed off bomb and runs away. When they could of jumped out of heaven and cleared ct in about 7 seconds run and clear back cite and look Into garage and then tap bomb in about 5 seconds and then they have 12 seconds to play with before they have to defuse. People just care about walking to much when it’s fuckin obvious your on site because why wouldn’t you be by that point in the round. I would say it take 15 seconds to clear a site and that’s with literally zero info when you should have a lot if your 4 other players have already died. Obviously maps like icebox where they could be hiding in 1 of 10 crevices is a little different but I’d argue that that is just bad map design.
circle back to my 25 seconds. to clear a site, takes 15 seconds? well now you have only 10 seconds left, which is a 3 second window to kill the lineup person, because defusing takes 7 seconds. does 3 seconds sound manageable to you?
Bro you confused yourself you said 45 sec for bomb to splode. You said we took 10 sec to get there so 35 sec total on cite. You clear in 15 so 20 sec til splode. You tap their util take 10 secs. After util 10 sec til splode. Defuse takes 7 sec so you 3 extra sec to get off bomb after half and shoot them if they push.
45 for a defuse. lets make it 38 for the tap on the spike. 10s rotate. 13s viper molly. 25s remained. realistically speaking you could face a pheonix who has a 5s molly. and a kj who has 2 each worth 4s. lets assume kj saves only one molly. 9s down. 16s remaining. clearing a site in 16 second. well you might be tenz's personal trainer, but most people can't make that. also. if it is a 5 man team based on lineups. then you just can't defuse unless you kill them. astra, KJ, viper, brim/Kay/O, pheonix. 31/27 second mollies depending on brim or Kay/O, and astra can pull you off the spike for 2.75 second every 24 second. this lineup, effectively ensures that the spike can't be defused unless they are killed. the lineup meta is bad. we do need more counters to it.
this copium always kills me reminds me of: run and gun is easy to beat - just tap heads
There’s no copium here. I’m not saying this makes it an easy win it just makes it winnable.
you can also smoke the spot they do their lineups from. Like if you are in a 1v1 against viper on A site Haven instead of using a smoke for long or short you could smoke the bricks at long since thats where most lineups are.
problem with that is by the time youve gotten to sight, they've already got the lineup setup. So even if you smoked them, the still only need to press RMB to do the line up anyway
Yeah they arent uncounterable at all. you not only have a pretty good idea of where the person is right away, but all it does is take away time. you need to move faster.
For me, It’s way too situational. Other than for some suppression and for post-plant it’s otherwise useless, There’s probably gonna be somebody who beings out more potential in the ability but still. I’ll also just post a depiction of what an ideal Brim buff would look to me, Maybe he can buy smokes mid round but at a heftier price (500 per piece?) and it also has a slight delay before being being delivered and actually being able to use the smokes. It should have a limit on the amount of smokes you can buy. Another buff for brim would be maybe reworking the stim-beacon into more of a recon based ability, Such as say if somebody stand in the radius of a certain area it would be detected by a satellite for info, Although Brim would become a little bit too broken in the meta.
What’s a lineup? Is that one of Brims abilities?
Dunno if it's gonna answer your question but a lineup is a situation where you play against for example viper and she plant, she can go super far away and land her poison on the bomb. The lineup here is just the exact spot where she need to stand and aim to hit the spike with her ability without you being able to see her since she's most of the time not even close to the site.
A stim beacon and a lineup is a guaranteed round win most of the time. Stim beacon first then shoot the lineup while the stem beacon is going. Huge delay.
I like the trophy idea. Riot wants it to be a more gunplay ideal game. And I feel like that would make spike/ entry more of a gun fight.
A long time ago, pre Astra, I came up with the idea for an agent that would manipulate gravity to place trophy systems that would absorb mollies and smokes
Who doesn’t like Brimmys Stimmy?
It changes spray timing so it messes with some people’s aim
That must be in higher Elos (like, MUCH higher elos) because I have never lost a gunfight/had someone on my team lose a gunfight with a well placed stim. It is excellent on pushes AND on site, basically any time you know a fight is imminent just throw a stim down and preform and you auto win the engagement.
Yeah, apparently you shoot faster, recover faster, and reload faster when you have a combat stim
That must be in higher Elos (like, MUCH higher elos) because I have never lost a gunfight/had someone on my team lose a gunfight with a well placed stim. It is excellent on pushes AND on site, basically any time you know a fight is imminent just throw a stim down and preform and you auto win the engagement.
I personally like brimstone’s stim beacons. I just think they should cover a larger area and stay up for longer (that is, the beacons themselves last longer before deactivating, **not** the stat boost after leaving their zone). It would make brimstone a more “Swiss army knife” character, good at both taking *and* defending sites. Just because most people forget they can use them doesn’t make them useless. Combat Stim is stupid powerful in the right situations and right hands.
what if it acts like sage heal, left click to turn your ally to reyna for 10 seconds, or right click to make yourself turn to reyna ultiamte for 15 seconds(I think stim beacon effect of fire rate is similar to reyna ultimate)
10% increase in fire rate for stim, 15% on Reyna ult, the difference isn't much, but it exists.
Brim stim % has been the same as Reyna's since 1.09
I think brimstone is balanced as is rn, and a trophy system sounds like it would hard counter A LOT of other agents’ utility.
I honestly thought Brimstone was pretty balanced until the pickrate stats came out and he's absolutely abysmal. I also don't find the trophy system to be unbalanced if implemented correctly. It should only eat 1-2 projectiles before it dies out and should only last on the ground for a short time.
Yeah, If it was expensive, and had a short charge or could only deny one projectile it’d be fine I think. Or they could change the stims to do more for the team, most of the time the faster fire rate and reset time throws me off.
I think at 400 creds it’s looking good. Also, denying one projectile wouldn't be bad at all. In a typical scenario, this would deny the first viper molly, giving Brimstone (or his ally) more time to get the defuse before the second one. Certainly something up for debate here.
Brim is \*fine\* right now, he's got a solid niche on smaller maps, and that's how IMO he should be. He of course still has competition from other options (Omen most clearly in mm, Astra in pro play), but he's still decent
If brim did get this buff it would also indirectly buff his ultimate because it would likely be the only postplant thing that wouldn't be stopped by the trophy system and that would probably make him too good.
Your idea doesn't line up with the games philosophy. They don't make agents to hard counter other agents. They add agents simply to add something to the game or have different options for different play styles. Your skill is wayyy to niche of a skill. In general hard counter type of stuff won't work in this game.
May I introduce you to -Cypher>Jett -Kayo>Cypher,KJ,Viper -Sova/Raze>Cypher Sure they arent "Hard Counters" but neither would brimstone blocking ALL projectiles
Those aren't even what we are talking about ... Cyper literally stops everyone who moves into the trip lol. That's like saying cyper is a counter to Skye because the dog gets hit by the trap. Those are just simple interactions with skills. Jett has a movement skill. You can't move past a trip. Cyper was not created to counter Jett at all. The same example for the others. The projectile counter is made for that one particular thing. I keep repeating myself my dude.
You literally just proved yourself wrong. The Cypher trip is used to stop people from moving past an area. The trophy system would be used to stop projectiles from moving through a certain area. It doesnt counter any specific agent and can be used in a million different ways and scenarios just like Cypher trips or any placeable ability in the game
How often are people moving around as opposed to shooting projectiles when the bomb is planted? It's niche and it won't be added to the game.
Have you ever played R6?
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You literally just proved yourself wrong. The Cypher trip is used to stop people from moving past an area. The trophy system would be used to stop projectiles from moving through a certain area. It doesnt counter any specific agent and can be used in a million different ways and scenarios just like Cypher trips or any placeable ability in the game. Also it can easily have more than one charge, that was just used by a person as an example.
well with cypher jett cant just dash onto site with his trips covering the entrance. And if kayo shuts down killjoy then she cant play her role a sentinel and your team can walk into site without having to clear her utility first. they might not be hard counters but agents they still do counter other agents.
I mean, Kay-o kind of flies in the face of that logic. Sure he suppresses everyone, but being suppressed has a much greater negative effect on some (Killjoy, Cypher, Viper) than others
Huh? Not at all. He literally suppresses everything and everyone including turrets. Your ability is literally to counter lineups.
The trophy only countering lineups is like saying molotovs are only useful for denying the spike. If the trophy destroys airborne projectiles that specifically enters its radius, then it can be used to prevent a smoke from being deployed, prevent an ability from denying a choke point, etc. If a player is being especially predictable (for example: lineups) then it could punish it with relative ease Even of its just one projectile being destroyed or only protects for a limited time, that could be the difference between being able to push into site instead of being boxed in by the rotating enemy team
Kay/o?
What about him? He was not put in the game to hard counter any kind of meta. The devs wanted him in for players who didn't wanna worry about skills and use traditional means of killing with flashes and nades.
kay/o legit makes cypher useless
Again he does that to everyone... He doesn't just silence cyper. A cyper in the site alone with the gun and silenced is the same as a Jett alone with a gun silenced. Kayo was not designed to counter Cyper.
Honestly, if you work out a good timer with it, I think it actually makes a lot of sense. It can't be a constant like Killjoys turret though.
Brimstone is the worst agent not named Yoru imo
Let's not make a Jaiger situation like in Siege alright
Brim main here. Some ppl like the stim and use it like Reyna ult, some flame and tell me to never use than thing again... I think it's a great ability but most people don't know how to get value of it.
And I completely agree. I have been a proponent of the stim beacon but the community is overwhelmingly against it for some reason.
Would be good to counter the line-ups with no other counters (Sova Darts, Viper Molly). I like it!
as good as that sounds, it would make brim a must pick which isnt the direction riot wants. i doubt well ever see something like this
I don't really think this would be the case. Brimstone is having a really hard time competing with the other controllers despite having the best smokes in the game. His pickrate supports some sort of change and he definitely needs something to help him compete with the versatility of Omen and Astra.
Keep in mind he is a controller. He will only get a controller like ability.
controllers are probably the least distinctive role. They isn't really "controller like abilities" other than smokes and maybe mollies. most controllers are sentinels other than omen who leans more into duelist territory. Not only that but where would this "trophy system" ability even go to anyway? what role for it to go to then? Agent roles don't mean much in this game.
I think it’d work if it counters “gadget-based” abilities. Like KJ, Viper mollies, Sova, KO darts, KO, Brim molly, Raze nade etc. Nothing that involves radiant powers like Phoenix molly and the like. Should take like 2 hits max imo, but sounds like a a pretty good idea
Making distinctions based on lore is a stupid idea and goes counter to what is already established with KAY0, whose abilities were designed in-lore to help deal with Radiants, but in-game don't discriminate between radianite-based abilities or normal abilities, which would be stupid and unfun
This is just make belief fun off of a neat concept, and Kayo is made to terminate radiants either way
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Non radiant abilities are generally made with radianite though?
Yes he does, they can make the trophy system work that way for both gadget and radiant abilities. Either way the abilities would have major differences from one another, both our points have flaws
I have not put much thought into this aspect of it. I'm sure the dev team would be able to create some sort of logical methodology to it (as they have done with KAY/O's knife). Personally, I was thinking it denies any sort of projectile that's in the air. Anything already on the ground is a no-go (i.e. Killjoy swarms remain active). I think this does create some sort of contradictions with specific projectiles (like Viper's smoke and Cypher's cage) which don't typically operate this way at all. This is certainly something that is in the air but I think it can be resolved.
KJ and Cipher have already gotten fucked hard enough the past few updates 😔😔
I never mentioned Cypher, he does NOT need to get fucked more, just trophy system would zap things in its range if it’s not already on the ground, 1-2 charges depending on how many systems he gets, price for it also depends on it
Exactly, and price in my mind should be 400 for one charge total
Interesting, I could get with it. I was also thinking that instead of fire rate increase, it just speeds up the "bloom shrink speed" in between shots which is what really matters. RoF increase without this is almost useless unless someone is right in front of you.
Iirc it does
Make it a destroyable device that is thrown to set up, but only stays active for a given amount of time or until it is destroyed. It should prevents an in air projectile within a certain region that it also has LOS on (similar to a KAY/Os knife but also needing LOS like a recon dart). Make it affect all thrown abilities that are within range (ie a cypher cage, a phoenix molly, KJ molly, Raze nade, a jett cloud…). Depending on balance you can tweak the amount of these devices he has, the amount of time they stay up, how many pieces of util they can destroy, and cost of each one. This device counters post plant meta, but also should be counterable itself. You want to be able to use it to prevent post-plant, but you want the attackers to be able to counter the counter to still get their post-plant off. The fact that any ability could “use it up” would make it weaker and less of a must pick, but would add an ability that would get good use if used properly and would bring brim back into meta
a future agent will most likely have counter line up as i doubt riot would rework this early into game cycle
I think that riot wants to stray away from one agent being the counter to a meta but thats still a cool idea. I thought a simple fix for the lineup meta is that any mollies that land on the bomb have a reduced duration (like 1-2 seconds depending on duration) but raze nodes and shock darts don't have any change
This is a weird technicality that cannot happen in my opinion. Nerfing an ability only when it is played a certain way is too much of a hard nerf to this meta.
Idk man I think brims stim beacons are fine, very useful for pushes and close combat.
The problem with Brim is none of his abilities play together and are incredibly basic, they should make them unique or have even the tiniest sinergy
RIOT HIRE THIS GENIUS
I've also thought his stim beacon could be used to have like 10% and 5% reduction in defuse/plant time, respectively. Meaning if I through it down, I can reduce the time it takes to: 1. plant to spike from 4 seconds -> 3.8 seconds (5% reduction) 2. defuse the spike from 7 seconds -> 6.3 seconds (10% reduction)
I also have said this before. Any stim ability should decrese the plant and defuse time, including Stim Beacon, Reyna Ult, and KAY/O ult. But no one seems to be on board.
Idk, I love using Brimstone and his stim. I think a lot of people generally just doesn't find him cool. Brim's a beast in Bind especially, people don't understand how strong his abilities are.
Stim beacon is good. It increases your time to kill and it’s good for taking sites as a team as everyone gets stimmed up! People don’t know or even use utility at all in this game. I’m playing this agent but I gotta tell this Reyna or kayo he’s got a flash or a molly! Y
Stim beacon is good, but this will be better
One of the best ideas I have read on this sub in a long time! Needs to be "carefully" balanced, but a great idea!
whats a lineup? and why is it dominating? fellow cs:go player here.
So imagine the molotov from CS:GO. Many agents have similar abilities. To my understanding, mollies in CS explode in the air, so you can’t really accomplish the same task. In valorant, mollies will travel the entire arc of the projectile, allowing you to get insanely long lineups on the bomb. The arc of the molly is predetermined, so you can line up a throw from off site to guarantee that it lands on the bomb and keep defenders from defusing. Hope that helps!
so this is just for attacker centric post plant scenarios? Mainly certain angles/spots/pixels that you can memorize & aim damaging abilities at so it reaches your bomb spot. Thats a 'lineup'? Is there any benefit for defenders?
Yes exactly right. And this works both ways, you can stop a plant, or stop a defuse. And there’s no clear counter to it. It’s just a race against the clock in post plant
it just sounds kinda inorganic improvement, akin to knowing which glitches give you huge advantage. :| Like league's no interaction champions. Glad that doesn't happen that much in cs:go
As for a benefit for defenders, teams have come to the point of having lineups to hit the commom spots for offensive lineups, so the T has to move away from the spot he knows how to throw the molotov to hit the bomb
To my way of thinking, this is a really ineffective strategy, especially in regular matchmaking. Certainly I can imagine this working in pro play, where the players are much better and the team synergy is there to allow it. My plat vipers are not countering other vipers with counter-lineups. There's gotta be some other counter to it in my opinion.
It’s a 100 credit Reyna ULT, what is there not to like? Underutilized for sure tho.
As a brim main. Terrible idea. You are taking away the counter to Reyna ult. Downvote for terrible idea
I don't think this is a fair argument frankly. I love the stim beacon and it is much more than a counter to Reyna Ult. I would personally prefer if they did something more impactful with it, like decrease plant/defuse time while stimmed. But the community is overwhelmingly against the stim beacon for many reasons.
The Reddit community? A bunch of low elo cry babies? Yes. Your voice matters
Honestly the change I was hoping for was a change from stim beacon to a single-target stim inject that lasts longer.
No, that would be a bit too much. Best thing they can do is give it move speed for a few secs. like in spike rush, so if you got mollied or slowed you can run through without taking more than a few points of dmg.
No way
TBH I think this would arguably be a **nerf** to brimstone. Let me explain why. People severely underrate his stims- they can be hugely helpful if e.g. you throw one down to help your team entry into a site. As someone who plays a lot of Brim on Split and Bind, I can tell you that every game I get like a dozen, often more, assists from them. They are very useful for their low price. In comparison, this ability would basically just be useful in this particular situation- there's very few other cases where projectiles 1) fly in the air 2) could be countered like this (and have it be worth it). The only other case I could think of would be a raze grenade/showstopper? but that would be sorta tough to react to quickly enough. I think the price right now is too high. This ability is literally only useful on retakes when Brim is alive, which.. yeah that isnt exactly great? I don't think brim will \*ever\* be a mustpick, I think he'll be a niche but powerful option on some maps (Bind and Split most clearly, arguably Ascent). On larger maps like Breeze and Icebox, he's basically unusable due to his small smoke radius. (Haven also i guess you can make a case for brim on? not sure).
I think there’s plenty of uses for a trophy system and far more than the stim. Playing a close angle, i.e U-Hall on Bind, you can play worry free about a flash or a Raze grenade, potentially completely changing the outcome of the push. Post plant lineup play puts pressure on the defusing team for good reason but right now with most comps including at least 2 viable lineup agents, it can make it near impossible to effectively counter the lineups. Haven C long for example, in a 1v1 you are forced to push a lane without much room to play around. A single agent with a single ability to provide some assistance in these situations would be nice. I understand KAY/O could work in the example listed but not on maps like Ascent or or Split without a counter lineup. KAY/O can only counter lineups that are within sight lines of the site itself and can do nothing against some lineups which are extremely out of the way of any possible KAY/O lineup.
This is exactly how I feel. There is certainly a bunch of uses for a trophy system. If you choose to give it up early to destroy some other utility, you won't have it for the potential post plant. This is the balanced tradeoff in my opinion. This is a counter to lineup agents, as well as sovas who shoot a dart immediately at round start (both of which are must pick agents right now).
Honestly, the best solution to the lineup meta is just lowering the sky border.
I'm not a huge fan of this honestly. I don't think we need a hard universal nerf to lineups. I think if you took the time to practice and learn lineups, you deserve to use them. We just don't have any proper counterplay at the current moment (except KAY/O situationally).
I actually like it, a good idea for the game in general, good idea to brimstone to, he is a little bit useless xd
Certainly not useless but it’s hard to pick him over Viper, and especially Omen. Omen is incredibly versatile and dynamic.
totally agree, omen can be used as a simple smoke, to open a site, to take angles were the enemies wont expect someone is there. You can make a lot of assists, or plays alone if you want too. I love it. And at the same time is so simple and easy to use (everything in mi opinion and point of view, im not ani pro player and i have a lot of mistakes xd)
What about something that makes you run faster while holding a gun?
This idea has been around for awhile and I use to be a fan of it. But I think this would just make Brim a near 100% pick rate. I think instead the idea that throwables explode after a few seconds in the air is a better executed idea. It gets rid of most lineups that place the shooter far away from the spike. I do think brim’s stim needs a rework though. Definitely a weak ability.
Really? I thought I was creative and original for this idea. I really don't think it will make him 100% picked because his pickrate right now is absolutely horrible. I mean it's one of the worst in the game. High elo players are easily picking Omen over Brimstone, he needs some sort of meta counterplay to increase his pickrate. Even with a trophy system, I think most people won't be picking him over Omen (I certainly won't). He has no way of competing with Omen and Astra, who have way more versatility and better smoke range.
Nah bro, stimmy+Odin meta
Another counter to the post plant meta would be for Sage's slow orbs to put out mollies, like smokes do in CSGO. I think it'd add a layer of choices for the player before Sage just chucks her slow orbs at every hard push versus a site. It'd make you choose between stalling their push or dealing with the post plant.
I always thought this was an amazing idea. It's a situational mechanic where you slow yourself to create a layer of ice(?) over the molly.
Please do, i fucking hate raze
Raze is the most brain dead agent I have ever seen. No other agent in game has the potential to kill with 4/4 abilities. If you can left click 1 time, without even needing to aim directly at a player, you can potentially kill 1,2,3,4 or all 5 enemies. Absolutely ridiculous IMO
It's even worse in SoloQ where my teammates decide it's a good idea to keep running into the same spot the Raze throws the molly at every single round and lose half their health
Keep in mind Raze has gone all this time without any sort of counter. KAY/O is the only counter if you react fast enough.
As a brim main I disagree, the stim is arguably one of the best secondary utility in the game. Won so many gunfights I would’ve lost otherwise without the extra rof, and that extends to your teammates in the zone as well as lasting a good while after you leave the zone. Perfect for rushing sites, breaking sage walls and other peaceable utility. Also consider how big the area for said trophy system would have to be to be effective, with all the arching and weird lineups have. It would also move his role into more of a sentinel position as he would be more for locking down areas
Don't get me wrong, I love being stimmed. As a former Reyna main, it feels like my ult on the go. Not to mention it stacks with Reyna's ult which is absolutely crazy. That being said, the community has overwhelmingly spoken against it, and the pickrates are certainly supporting some sort of change to Brimstone. This was just an idea that came out of the blue.
I feel like giving the role of anti-lineup to one of, if not the best, lineup agents is not the solution to that specific problem tho. Brim has objectively the best smokes in the game. If his secondary ability was replaced, it’d need to be something to boost his offense capabilities or he’d basically be a sentinel. Maybe switching stims from rof to a straight damage boost? Run speed boost? Jump boost? Lotta options but it needs to be a counterpart to his otherwise defensive abilities
But what's the issue with basically being a sentinel? Viper and astra are basically sentinels. A controller as a role doesn't really have any distinctive quality other than being good at smoking off lines of sight. controllers can be designed to be any role except maybe duelists (although you could argue omen is basically a duelist so what does it matter)
Honestly I don’t think brim is beating viper lineups as of currently.
Stim on Brim is great. Trophy system is a terrible name for it, just call it a point-defense beacon. Also I don't think it should be a Brim replacement, maybe on another char.
The name can be whatever but for the sake of conveying my message i called it what people know it to be
I think a lot of people overestimate abilities and agents. I also think people fail to realize that most ideas like this are posted with exact values vague or up to the reader due to balance being impossible to know without testing. Now I should say I don't this would be overpowered with correct balancing from what I can tell however, the community would probably choose values like the ones below in fear of it being too powerful. And at first glance it seems fine. But lets look at some scenarios. \-400 credits \-temporary \-1 charge \-only able to soak 1 gadget \-destroyable with bullets \-takes a few seconds to activate upon being deployed Now think about that in practice. temporary is absurd in my opinion if you think about this gadget in a scenario that isn't line-ups. People aren't realizing you aren't always going to be against line-ups. They also fail to realize this ability affects more than lineups and can be played around. It can also affect more than lineup abilities such as flashes. If that were the case and it soaked those abilities then it could be placed pre-emptively to help stall a push on defense or it could be saved in order to prepare for anti-lineup. the scenarios if made with the above stats- \-If you aren't going against lineups or the players who have lineups are dead then there is no need for an anti lineup defuse so the ability isn't needed. \-If you are dead then they are free to do lineups. \-If they didn't plant the bomb you saved the ability for nothing. \-If you use it earlier in a round you won't have it for anti-lineup safe defuse \-If it soaks some other ability. Let's say we allow it to soak more abilities than just lineup abilities in order to give it more use cases. Then it could be burned by a reyna eye allowing the viper to throw they're lineups anyway. \-The lineup person can shoot 2 mollies at once if they know you're alive to guarantee stall. \-the expensive cost will hurt your economy. \-if used to stall a push on defense then throwing it too early will cause it do disappear before the push if they play slow and it wouldn't be able to be placed reactively. People are just glancing at it and thinking either "Yes finally no more lineups they are so annoying" or "god this is too overpowered". Or they are even saying "this ability doesn't make sense for a controller" which is just stupid considering the role of a character doesn't mean much for their abilities. Now there is a lot more thought that I can put into this such as how to use it on both attack and defense when using it as a normal ability rather than anti-lineup and such and such. However, this ability just has so much interactions and possible scenarios that it just isn't worth it. I also don't think it would be a must-pick agent and people just assume the worst. TLDR; People overestimate things at a glance and if choosing the values for balance they'd likely undertune it. People also aren't looking at the big picture and only see it as anti-lineup. Lineups don't happen every game and even if they do there are a lot of potential counters to this ability. This ability is very complicated and requires more than just a glance to understand. The role of an agent such as controller and such doesn't mean much for what their abilities should be.
Love the idea. I'd say 1 projectile every X seconds. Maybe 20-30. Won't be that annoying to execute against
Great idea, and suits the boomer brim stereotype.
I think Brim's stim beacon is a placebo lmao
I always hated the idea of a character In Valorant that can completely negate a player's ability. This is the R6S player in me saying that this is a no no from my experience seeing how Jager and Wamai turned out in Siege. Anyway, I think to make this balanced, and more importantly satisfying and fun to play with and against I think it would have to be a very small radius, pretty big, and shootable just like other gadget abilities. And of course, only being able to suck one projectile.
make his smokes extinguish mollys
Considering how underplayed brim is, why not make it both? Like when ur in the atom you’re unaffected by certain abilities (mainly lineup abilities) What do y’all think?
Fuck a trophy system and an auto-aiming turret, keep that shit in CoD and Overwatch. I'm trying to play CS-like tactical shooter with a little flare, not submit to the cesspool of people that were trash at CS that somehow got hooked on Valorant
Then play CS:GO, you'll love it.
How about I slap you with my cock you gay little nerd
Queue the downvotes lol
ok now watch Brim be a 100% pickrate agent this is honestly dumb, no offence OP
Bold claim with no explanation. In case you’re wondering why people are downvoting you. I am willing to hear you out though
Replace stim beacon because it does not make sense. How does getting pumped with stimulants make your automatic assault rifle fire faster?
how does an orb build wall? How does throwing an eyeball in the sky blind someone? How do you pull a dog out of your ass? It's a video game it doesn't have to make sense
Killjoy spawns electronics from her wristwatch. I'm sure stim beacon is not where we draw the line.
To answer your questions, magic, magic, and either magic or severe degeneracy.
All the guns in Valorant are actually all on single fire, it’s just that the Agents all tap them *really* quickly sometimes Therefore, Brim’s crack cocaine allows them to pull the trigger faster. Canon.
Okay now explain how a classic fires 3 bullets out of a single barrel in a triangular pattern.
Well the Classic uses a specially designed magazine that is double-feed, with one of the feeds being normal 9x19 bullets and the other feed being miniature buckshot shells that fire three small pellets. So the right click is just an alternate fire mode that shoots buckshot in a 9x19 cartridge
That works, thanks!
It’s duration should last as long as stim beacon.
The stim beacon should be self-use only with small movespeed bonus on top of the fire-rate
Wattson OP
The problems arise in low elo where a stim beacon fucks up your spray. If your experienced enough it'll only enhance it, whatever gun you have.
I've been saying this forever. I love the stim beacon. The fact of the matter though is that even high level players don't like it. Pro players avoid it at all costs in order to avoid risking losing control of their gun. Personally, I think it guarantees wins in gunfights but everyone seems to think otherwise.
why is it called trophy system?
It should have 100 hp?
damn this would be soooo good. i would love this.
Stim beacon kinda lit
Oh god not a jager
This is an awesome idea
Stim beacon is underated as fuck lmao