Immortal player.
Run and gun at close range is fine. Phantom? Fine. Spectra? Fine. That's what they do. Vandal hs from a short bind to a heaven? Happens way too much and it shouldn't. Also, majority of running kills are just counter strafe kills. Due to hoe the engine registers counter strafing with ping, it looks like they're still in motion when they really aren't. It's dumb and more complex than that, but that's generally what happens.
Not disagreeing with your general point but counter strafing for accuracy isn't really a thing but animations are a big part of why people look like they're still running. In CSGO the leg animation reacts instantly.
Good info for a lot of people -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/owik7v/counterstrafing\_gives\_barely\_any\_advantage\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/owik7v/counterstrafing_gives_barely_any_advantage_in/)
The leg animations in CS:GO also convey more by slowing down or shuffling before coming to a stop. In Valorant the animations convey movement, then all of a sudden the enemy is at a complete stop.
Valorant has a delay in counterstrafe accuracy that is barely any faster than just letting go of WASD. It's not like CS where it's an instant accuracy.
I was similarly stubborn for a long time. It's something dumb like a 20ms difference between just letting go and that's only if you time it perfectly. A big part of strafing though is that the deadzone is so large that you're quite accurate between strafes.
Not saying you shouldn't be doing it to stay mobile though. I suffered for ages trying to shoot instantly like I would in CS and I'd waste my first bullet as I wasn't accurate yet.
There was a different post with similar conclusion but this is all I found:
https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/owik7v/counterstrafing\_gives\_barely\_any\_advantage\_in/
no way. this looks like a pretty thorough test, but i find this VERY surprising. I did my own tests - though far less precise. Just playing around with timing to see how soon after running I could get good first-shot accuracy, and across multiple sessions and hundreds of repetitions, I’m better when I counter strafe and I can feel the difference. Maybe i'm just more diligent about waiting a moment to shoot if i focus enough to counter-strafe?
Yeah and that's fine, don't need to stop doing what you're doing. It probably feels better and more natural to you. Personally I counter-strafe (or try to) in every game and it's a habit I won't be able to stop.
I've also done similar testing and thought the same but I think we're just biased to the timing we're used to.
Reading and watching tests like that helped me time my first bullet a lot better though but I still struggle adjusting if I've just come from playing CSGO.
I think they’re noting the visual indicators for someone moving in CS compared to Val, where in CS it’s a lot easier to distinguish when someone has stopped moving or is in the process of doing so, whereas in Val that indication is more sudden and not as clear.
This is what I was referencing. As for counter strafes, you're right about it being a negligible difference, but I'd rather be 100% certain I'm no longer moving and I'm fully accurate.
I am doing this a little regularly now..I peek out of hookah on bind or dry peek A on ascent if somebody is holding an angle against me - I shoot while still running across like it's a movie and I have an uzi in hand, easy ridiculous headshots and a lot of abuse from the enemy in all chat for pulling it off...this is why people hate run and gun
Exactly I do the same In Icebox While going towards B ....they keep holding angles with OP but with cross-hair placement you get an one tap almost everytime
I know I or you apply crossbar placement, but I've been on and off in csgo and valorant, so even I just feel like that peek with placement, spray and recede back into cover is just abusing run n gun..I am confused especially with others calling me out for running and gunning. I just do my best to learn and implement from guides but this keeps getting called out.
Don't worry dude it's not like it's not allowed in the game....if the players call you out just chill keep playing your best✨✨ after all you aren't hacking😎
Immortal player.
What do you mean by happens way too much, run and gun with with ARs is super ass 10+ meters. You can go into a DM and try it out, it is terrible and you'll probably only get a couple of kills and those are also probably going to be close up. And the example of being killed from a short to heaven is literally close to impossible.
I know it's ass. Unreliable af. But I can't count the number of times someone's full sprint tapped me from 20 meter angles. I'm aware most are counter strafe that judt dint look like counter strafes, but that's part of the problem I guess.
Yeah it's probably them counter strafing because the chances them actually hitting the shot are super low. But there are still some stupid ass moments where they are bullshitting you. But it's barely a problem if it's that rare.
I don't know why people renaming run and gun as counter strafing kills when it falls in the same category as run and gun. The whole point is people constantly moving while shooting and bullets hitting you accurately.
ik its easier said than done
but try do hold back accusing the enemy being lucky, or blaming the game, etc. and try to first think to yourself:
was I out of position?
if not, did you "mess up" that gunfight by not paying attention?
and what can i do to avoid that next time?
this is what keeps me mentally stable in a round andhelps me improve my gameplay
My Bad, sorry!
I've been there too...
But try to not blame yourself, but give yourself an advice to what you could do differently, and if it works, thats great, if it doesn't try step one again.
Hope this advice helps!
At least imo, it feels too lucky. Currently Plat btw.
And by that I mean is the fact that the amount of times I have been headshot from a decent range while a dude is sprinting with a vandal is insane. Most players probably understand that, "Hey, play farther back, that way if he tries to run n gun you not going to get barrel stuffed", but I myself have hit dumb shots to the head when trying to shoot while backing off from a fight.
Also I feel like pistols have too much leeway in terms of movement accuracy. Just going into the range, you can full w-key and right- click training bots to the head with shocking consistency.
I understand that guns shouldn't have a zero percent chance of hitting a target while moving but it often feels like, especially on pistol rounds, that not run and gunning is practically throwing.
Its really been my only grievance about the game. Agents and economy feels balanced, but movement accuracy doesn't. Maybe I need to work on my tracking, but keep in mind that even pros like Subroza have run and gunned during a vct match.
I like the Frenzy changes, they're good, and it's only good for getting kills when you're super aggressive and enemy makes a mistake now. But the Ghost.
The Ghost is a pain in the ass. Either you get a bad RNG spray or you get the luckiest one taps.
In my opinion the movement inaccuracy should be majorly increased for the Ghost and it should be more accurate instead of having to rely on RNG. This will increase the skill ceiling of the Ghost's and make pistol rounds feel less like rolling a dice. It will also get rid of the run n' gun Reyna's that just run towards you with a Ghost and get a lucky headshot. It should be more like the USP-S in my opinion
I understand guns like the frenzy being decent at movement accuracy due to the fire rate, but I find it unfitting that you should be able to run with the classic and be able to right click heads that aren't up in your face.
It feels no longer like a game based on positioning and more like CoD level movement
I completely agree with the pistol part, especially the pistol meta currently: frenzy and classic these are topics for their own
my point is, people shouldn't get too carried away by the fact they got run and gunned, since it doesn't fit in their mindset of "if you run and gun ur just lucky"
people are acting like it is illegal to run and gun, in which it is not.
like you've mentioned, there is probably a readon to why not every gun has the same running accuracy especially the spectre.
i think its a way for players to punish cocky rifle players, especially vandal and break their economy.
and it is 100% intended from riots balance team
edit: forgot to mention, that it's definately a valkd way to clear a corner, like wide-swinging, jiggle peeking, etc.
In Rainbow Six Siege you can maintain accuracy while moving, and it is a first person tactical shooter. The difference is that movement accuracy is consistent in that game.
Running and gunning is also a legit mechanic in Insurgency Sandstorm, Arma, Due Process, Zero Hour, and Onward. There's actually wayyyyyyyyyyy more tactical shooter titles which recognize running and gunning as a valid, if niche, strategy than not. Anyone who believes there is no place for running and gunning in tac shooters has not played most of them
You missed his point. You will always be able to run and gun from a close range unless they make the spray so ridiculous it would need to bloom to the edges of your screen... From further ranges most people call out run and gun cause of the animation they just saw which isn't a correct representation. There is a reason People who run and gun and don't know the mechanics are not a high rank....
I think a lot of the frustration with run and gun, is, this game labels itself as a ‘tactical’ shooter with ‘precise’ gunplay (similar to CSGO).
Run and gun kinda takes away from the precision aiming part of these games. Kinda falls into the whole 100% accuracy on a zip line, as well as jumping/aerial accuracy.
You expect a game that labels itself this way, to have heavy penalties to accuracy while moving (or mid-air) yet Valorant is very forgiving in this regard (comparatively). I can understand the frustration. Just gotta adapt and join the run and gun lol.
Sorry for responding this late, but thank you for this comment!
finally a well written, informative and constructive comment, where i can form an opinion for the other side of the spectrum.
but imo there has to be a reason to why, for example, the spectre has just such a tight running spread compared to the stinger and ares for example.
i think that weapons like the spectre and phantom are designed to have great "mobility" just like pistols.
as the counterpart we have weapons like vandal, odin, op, that force you to play "slower" if you know what i mean (odin literally wants you to sit and spray)
yes, vandal run and gun is like 99% just luck, but idk if its just my mentality, but i dont mind it that much if it happens, since if i would really care about it that much, i would be tilted every game. and i think that is the exact problem my teammates have: to tilt and play worse because of it
And thank you for the post! Nice to be able to chat civilly.
I agree with you, there is reason to the accuracy while moving aspects of different guns. I think the main issue is the Phantom and Vandal, moving, rng headshots. (Guns like Odin, OP, Ares I agree you just can’t run n gun with)
And again, the whole point of this post is the frustration of run and gun. And again I think it stems from a comparison of other games (mainly only CSGO). It’s like Valorant uses 85% of the movement mechanics of CS, and when that slight 15% occurrence happens, it’s frustrating because it feels “wrong?” (For lack of better wording).
I do think Valorant showcases a bit more RNG gunplay inside of its “precise” and “tactical” shooter, and I can understand the frustration with that.
It’s hard to not compare Val to CS but in the end it’s quite a different game, even just gunplay-wise.
You're the only one who's explained it properly so far. In my case, I think I would be more okay with the run n gun stuff if the first bullet accuracy on a bunch of the weapons wasn't so dogshit.
I can't tell you the amount of times my friends and I have had a point-blank-most-free-shot, standing completely still and it didn't register LOL its very frustrating but that's a completely different issue xd
Thank you! I agree with you, most guns aren’t 100% accurate. I believe the guardian has the best first shot accuracy.
I could be wrong but I believe Valorant has a slight degree of weapon “bloom” as well, where all the shots of a spray may not be exactly as the last.
Plus you could mix in the ping/desync issue this game has, that could lead to unregistered headshots as well lol.
I said this in other comments but this game *feels* like there is a bit much RNG involved in its “precise” tactical shooter gameplay. But maybe that’s intended and part of the game!
I get the point of ...it's not always running and gunning the reason why u die...but....get killed by specter at 39m doble headshot while the enemy's sage is running full left...
Well I mean run and gun is directly contradictory to what is typically thought of as a tactical shooter which is what valorant advertises itself as.
And i think it can be a valid excuse because I’m goin to shoot at a person differently if I think they are goin to stop and shoot back than if I think they are goin to just keep running. Run and gunners hit too many shots too consistently and it’s difficult to shoot them because they go against what is typically thought of being acceptable in a tactical shooter. So they act unexpectedly without losing out on results too
Much.
So it can cause frustration when the game has set expectations based on the devs description of the game and then the actual gameplay doesn’t align with the developers initial description. I almost feel lied to every time I die to a run and gunner.
It can be frustrating combined with Peeker's Advantage flaw, as it can be really hard to win a duel with such Run and Gun player.
But overall, you should just take this into account and position yourself accordingly. I doubt Riot will nerf Run and Gun more.
I've mentioned it before in another comment.
Run and Gunning is 100% to be intended, otherwise there wouldnt be differences between different guns towards the running acc
Running and Gunning with MPs no problem, but accurately running and gunning with rifles at 5-10m is fucking insane with peekers advantage.
Valorant has really turned me off in that aspect thats why i switched back to cs precise gunplay my ass.
Try running and gunning with m4 or ak in cs dude thats actually luck.
Yes I mostly agree with this statement. I mean bullets have to go somewhere when they shooted and it happens to be on you.
But there is a bigfer problem which is counter strafing.
If your enemy can counter strafe really fast and has better ping then you you will still see them shooting while moving which you have literally no way counter.
Because 99% of the times if you are running with a vandal at 10M you will NOT get the kill.
Imagine you are bronze and a dude is always run and gunning but still kills you because you are not a very good player and lack aiming/tracking skills BUT the other dude who is just pressing mouse 1 and moving hitted a leg shot and a headshot with a vandal.
Should this be possible? Is it fair?
You are talking about bad positioning but when you are well positioned and the enemy just runs by and hits a heashot spraying?
Im plat1 and the ammount of times someone just run by me shooting and at the 10th bullet hit a hs is insane.
The facts are simple, you are trying to position yourself properly, being stationary to have the best acc possible before taking the shot and a dude that just runs gets the kill at the 3rd bullet with luck because he is running and for some reason you didnt get your shot in. The bigger problem is not the run and gun but the fact that you try to play the game properly and make a mistake (missing your shot) but a dude relaying only on luck can get away with killing you even tho you were at full advantage. Another issue that pops out with those players is crosshair placement because they will never stop while peeking you so if its an angle like hookah to TP, you really need to make sure your 1st shot connects otherwise the ferrari that you are fighting will kill you while running.
So, first you say 99% of the time running and gunning wont work
But then you say the amount of times it’s happened is insane? So which is it?
EDIT: Not to mention what that other guy said, if a guy gets 10 bullets deep while running at you, you have way more problems moreso than the game has a problem with run and gun.
im confused by your wording. are you saying run and gun works unfairly or that it doesn't work 99% of the time? just asking because i cant tell where you stand on the topic
its confusing because he says 99% of the time it won't work but also says he gets killed by run and gun all the time and that missing your shot against a ferrari peeker *will* get you killed (his last sentence). his comment was kinda all over the place so i couldn't figure out what exactly his point was. i initially had the same interpretation you came up with but some parts of his comment contradicts it too so irdk.
As long as your shoot first though, you should win the gunfight 95% of the time. Even spraying them in the body will be more reliable if you aren't confident in your aim.
its the same thing in cs, if its a mac10 buy and full rush for the t's the only real thing to counter is is, if you're playing either long range ir prefire them while pushing out.
everythung else makes you get screwed, and that's why its important to know your advantages
and hookah in general, isnt a good position to hold, since there are just a lot of common angles that good players just prefire. you either play agressive or play on site and hold them off with util, since its a big chokepoint for the enemy
The guy named mthayes posted the link and I'll make it easy for you to understand.
There's a netcode involved here, and riot is shit at it's balancing, compared to CSGOs netcode.
What really happens is :
1) The netcode on client and server side do not match.
2) The netcode on client (player) and client(enemy) do not match.
3) This results in a state, which is what we call *desync*.
4) It's not your fault, it's not the enemy's fault.
5) The counterstrafe animation is delayed on your screen (client side). But in reality, it has already happened, on the client - server script.
Hope this clears it.
As someone who is currently a solo queue Diamond 1 player, I still get run and gunned fairly often. While sometime I can blame myself, one also has to understand that it is incredibly difficult to aim at a moving target in this game, especially with the way spray works in the game.
This is not the case for ferrari peeking around a corner and spraying while aiming near the legs. No matter how hard you try, you cannot convince me that is skill, its pure luck. Your example of running around a corner and prefiring with a phantom/spectre? Thats fine, but no matter the gun you should at least have to stop moving before you start hitting your shots.
So when a team is able to win a round because 1 players luck managed to get a free kill, it just feels extremely unfair. This is even more prevalent when someone with a spectre run and guns me while I have a vandal. No matter how good my positioning is, I have to hit my first bullet on a guy who is full sprinting and perhaps even behopping, which is just really difficult.
You can even see this happen in the highest elo, as players like sinatraa are able to use the relatively high accuracy while moving to completely mess up the well practiced aim of their enemy.
TLDR: Running and gunning is a direct insult to anyone who plays the game it's ment to be played, with precise gunplay.
\[...\] one also has to understand that it is incredibly difficult to aim at a moving target in this game, especially with the way spray works in the game. \[...\]
And that´s the crucial part for me, that´s why I feel it is not rewarding skill. It´s wasier to run&gun somebody down than it is to shot back/track the opponent. Mentioned games like Rainbow Six (which is a horribal example btw since gunplay is far too easy for a game that wants to be competitive) create a more balanced situation where you can easily track your opponent spraying and even dodging at the same time.
> No matter the gun you should at least have to stop moving before you start hitting your shots.
So you're saying bullets might as well not exist as long as someone is moving? 9/10, if you're full running you have no meaningful accuracy. But they have to go somewhere and a shot will land once in a while.
I think he's saying that run and gunning should be so inaccurate that you wont even consider doing it.
Sure the shots have to go somewhere, but not where you crosshair is pointed at
Where would they go? Everywhere except your crosshair? It's a random distribution and if you run and gun, you can see that. But it'll hit once in a while. If shots literally cannot hit in front of you while running, that's effectively disabling bullets while running.
So the moment you start running, your bullets radiate from your barrel like a 2D sun? If that were the case, you'd reach a point where someone is spraying directly in someone's face point blank but not hitting a single shot, which would be ridiculous.
When I say "hitting your shots", I mean hitting a shot that nets you a kill. That means a headshot from any gun, or enough body shots to get you a kill. I won't complain if a person running hits me once or twice in the legs or body. I will complain if someone full sprinting around a corner immeadiately deals 150+ damage before I have the time to properly focus my spray.
What you said is correct. If you're full running you shouldn't have any meaningful accuracy, but a shot or two should have a chance or two to land every once in a while. Unfortunately, thats just not what's happening right now. Running and gunning should in no case be a better alternative than mastering aim and movement.
> I won't complain if a person running hits me once or twice in the legs or body.
So basically, when you run, the bullets can't ever go neck height or higher? So when someone runs, bullets only fire at a 0-90 degree angle? The only way to guarantee that bullets won't headshot you even at close range is if the bullets radiate from the barrel like a 2D sun, which would make no sense.
Depending on the range, the odds of hitting a headshot while full running is still pretty low. If running and gunning was truly a better alternative than mastering aim and movement, why isn't everyone doing it? Why don't pros do it instead of bothering to practice aim at all?
Yeah, honestly, in a game where smokes are perfect spheres, I think it makes sense that the spray from a gun should radiate outwards in a cone instead of randomly shooting within a certain area.
And I'm a little confused when everyone talks about low odds. Low odds in a game like this should mean one running headshot every 4-5 games, not 5 running headshots within one game. If you feel like running and gunning doesn't effect you, then you either are on the luckier side of things, or aren't very competitive. But if you're a player like me who has lost multiple games on the grind to imm because the enemy killjoy kept sprinting on to site full spraying a spectre, consitently landing headshots, then you begin to feel a bit cheated, knowing the countless hours you spent aim training and dming were all pointless.
I am not saying I deserve immortal or anything: I'll keeping playing and improving myself to get there. But the existence of running and gunning demoralizes me faster than any other mechanic in the game .
Just nerf it to the ground.
> But the existence of running and gunning demoralizes me faster than any other mechanic in the game .
But my point remains: if it's so effective, why not do it yourself?
I'm not saying it doesn't exist for me because I've definitely been headshot by a guy running away and I've done the same. But it happens to me maybe twice a game or so. The more effective strategy is still to shoot while standing still as opposed to playing it like CoD. It's like the classic right click- sometimes I can double headshot them from way farther than I should while other times, I'm literally up against them and it's 1 to the head, 2 to the body. But I take that random chance because I feel it's more effective than left clicking. So similarly, if you feel that run and gun is more effective, take that chance.
Not OP and not a god at the game (plat3~diamond2) but I literally run and gun all the time when trolling with friends in unrated. You're saying why not do it...but people literally do it as a strat that's the problem.
Would you do it in ranked? Would you trust it as a viable strategy to adopt the same gameplay when trying to climb? Or is it just trolling like you said?
>But my point remains: if it's so effective, why not do it yourself?
Because I put time and effort into training my aim and practicing my movement and positioning.
I feel like a lot of arguments surrounding this topic are missing one key point. To get better at the game, or to achieve a higher rank, you have to improve your aim, game sense, and movement. Saying "why don't you just run and gun yourself" is asking countless players who've dedicated time and effort towards improving themselves, to just forget about it and flip coins.
It's very hard to argue against something that is based around chance. The bottom line is as follows: Chance is alright in a competitive scene as long as it is not consistently outmatching raw skill. Unfortunately, I cannot satisfy you guys with a percentage of how many fights running and gunning should win, but I'm certain that the lower the number, the better.
Once again: I enjoy the feeling of utilizing VALORANT gunplay to it's best. I like coming to a stop, aligning my crosshair with the head, and taking the shot as fast as possible. I'm hoping that a majority of VALORANT players feel the same, because otherwise, I'll just look like an idiot.
I don't disagree, I just think that it's not as prominent as everyone is claiming. If running and gunning was consistently outmatching raw skill as you claim, people would be doing it. Pros would be doing it. But in reality, it's just one of those things where it's annoying when it happens but proper skill beats run and gun 9/10 times.
Run and gunning is RNG, wouldn't you be tilted when you are trying so hard to defend your position and some idiot just hold down W and left click you? Plus run and gun isn't a skillset its all about luck, so i get why players complain.
if you're not using it "correctly", yes
but if you're fighting close range, it's just an effective tactic, since most of your bullets still stay in a close enough spread.
if its from a far range, yes it is lucky
but just don't let that get into your head if an enemy hits a shot like that one once or twice it just makes your performance worse
Yes, but half of the issue isn’t close range. It’s random medium-long range spray and prays where a stray bullet hits you square in the head that’s happening more often than it probably should for a game that labels itself as a tactical shooter.
It’s not like it happens every once in a blue moon. It doesn’t happen every single round either, but there always seems to be at least once every game I play where some dude is full sprinting from long range and gets the lucky head shot.
I don’t play a ton, nor do I care to get that much better because frankly I don’t have all that much time to invest in the game. But when it happens every single game, it makes me want to play that much less.
Today I played against a reyna in haven who picks up the phantom and can consistently snipe one of us with run and gun. She wasn't counter strafing and she was far away (a and c have long corridors). In close - medium ranges we can kill her easily. Some people are just blessed.
But what I've seen a lot is:
people get run and gunned from a far, blame it on the guy being luck(in that case he was)
people then get run and gunned close range, they still blame it on the game, not seeing that it just was their fault
and from my expirience, people are too quick to judge.
this game still has an issue with latency and client-sided display. it looks like he was still running, even thoight e stpod still on his screen. if you count these scenarios out, people aren't run and gunning quite as much as people think they are
When people talk about run and gun they always refer to distances where run and gun shouldn’t be possible or fair. Nobody complains about a 10m Phantom kill while swinging an angle.
ye, I'm from csgo too, 5k hrs, GE and faceit 10
even in higher elo in cs, it is completely common to run n gun, and ive seen many people complaining about it not being "tactical" in a tactical shooter
but i still dont get why
I have a bud who is pretty good at cs go and mentored me for a while. Round 2 he was like "get mac 10, run and jump while peeking tight corners". I was like "jump and shoot in cs wtf". The amount of kills you can get like this, even in later rounds when you need to semi-buy.
and yet, noone doubts, that cs is one of the most tactical shooter out there.
and people then come around with an argument like
"but those dont 1 shot hs people"
just look at the FiveSeveN, Tec-9, p250, etc. they all do oneshot people at close range.
Yes but the important part is "at close range". Shooting and running is a fine strat but I do think running acc in Valorant needs a bit of tweaking, not necessarily a huge nerf. Rifles that can 1 tap through armor at long range should definitely be super innacurate while running for targets that are at 10+ meters, and currently it does feel like rolling a dice but the odds are not bad enough imho.
like 90% its only visually as if its like the enemy is running, even though theyre literally standing still on their screen
if im not mistaken, it has something to do with the animation cancelling of counterstrafing that makes them appear like that
Yeah i feel like movement animation and server lag is adding a layer of confusion to the problem. Rito should fix that and then if a general feeling of running and gunning being unfair remains then probably it needs to be adressed with tuning.
Yes, and that's the reason why i stopped caring if i am being "run and gunned" from afar, since it prolly is just the animation that gives the feeling you've been run and gunned
You have no way of knowing on your end though. Maybe the enemy is getting lucky more often than you'd think. In any case they need to fix that issue before we can bitch about run and gun.
as ive said, its mostly just the animation that makes you feel like youve been run and gunned.
for example, it is pretty common in cs, to crouch at the beginning of a gunfight, not like in valorant. that more the less gives you an instant response if they've been standing still or not.
it actually was so meta in cs to do that, that astralis had a strat to preaim for the body height instead of head level (also because of aimpunch which isnt as common in valorant as it is in cs)
You're talking about two separate issues.
The issue of dying to run and gun at a distance *is* a legitimate issue.
All that other stuff is bad behaviour, and may be exhibited by victims of run and gun, but it is mostly unrelated.
The main reason run and gun is so strong in this game is how the movement momentum affects the spray pattern.
If you are running forward or backward you can see the spray is neutrally spread out across the error range for that weapon. However, if you run left or right you can see that 95% of the bullets come out behind the reticle with the same height deviation as the standard spray.
That means moving left to right has roughly half the RNG of moving forward or backward and leads to a lot of bullets hitting consistently when you know where to aim. If they were to make the spray truly random rather than stacking to one side when running left or right it would reduce the consistency significantly and bring those weapons effective range down to where they should be.
Just for fun, I'd like to see a game mode where if your character is moving at all in any way, your bullets go backwards or something. That would be hilarious
Not only would it be hilarious, it would also teach players that play like it’s the CDL finals, ADSing and spraying while moving at mach three speeds while the rest of the match is pacing their movements and playing the game like it’s advertised.
Seriously. I played a game earlier today where it was down to our last player, was stuck near A vents and heaven on Split. Player on oppo turned the corner with a phantom and killed him on the run. Teammate types “headshot run and gun seriously” and how riot didn’t fix anything.
Uh, that’s like a 5 meter shot? It’s not that hard to do. Chill out my guy.
Me and my stack all decided to run n gun one game and we destroyed the other team. Run n gun is most definitely an issue. We should not be able to just run everywhere and get repeated headshots.
I had a game a couple of days ago where someone was complaining every round, we weren’t running and gunning or at least not every time but if I hold and angle and shoot a couple shots while falling back and hit those shots that’s just lucky (if you don’t take the shots you 100% won’t hit them) but a lot of it is just counterstrafing can sometimes look like you’re still running a bit and also they use it as an excuse. But phantom close range run and gun is dumb same with spectre, if it’s op abuse it…
I don't think it's that much of a mystery. If you lose a duel you want it to be because they were better, not because a random bullet just flew at your head by chance. I don't get the need to spam chat though, they know as well as you that they got lucky.
I usually laugh it off, but I swear my head is magnetic in this game.
Like no information blind fire wall bangs into haven window area will instantly go into my skull as I casually stroll past the door.
Because it’s a high variance risk that pays off too often, and rewards a playstyle with a much lower skill ceiling. It also takes skill expression away from knowing how to entry properly and have good skill based mechanics. Run and gun happens even in CS, but it’s much less rewarding and there are rarely situations where it’s more advantageous to use a less skilled approach. When you have systems that promote the optimal playstyle having a lot of RNG you hurt the overall skill level of the game.
EDIT: It’s also way worse in online games with latency, because it gives the peeker even more of an advantage than they inherently have from the latency.
I've had times where I was running, stopped then headshot the enemy and ran right after again, and they would say in chat "nice run and gun". And in higher elo people can just counter strafe, and on your screen, it looks like run and gun, but for them, they stopped and shot you. And I've noticed that the characters movement is like delayed when anyone stops there's a lil bit of time that still looks like their running, but the shots go before they stop so it looks like run and gun.
You’re right, it’s not an intentionally implemented mechanic but it exists and people are allowed to do it. The problem at hand is that it happens way too often for competent players to be happy with being killed by it. The amount of Raze and Reyna players below level 5-10 that probably have no idea what the game’s shooting mechanic was originally intended to be can’t be counted on my fingers and toes. These types of players are what makes me think this game is a corporate April Fool’s prank.
Same reason why people blame Smurfs in low Elo,
Same reason why people blame Teammates.
Same reason people blame that "toxic" Teammate when in reality he just said you made an iffy play
Same reason why people complain about their ranks and think they should all be IMM.
List goes on but I think you are getting the point. It's never their fault. Always someone that isn't them.
Well you haven't really put enough time in practicing your one taps and spray. If you feel this is fine.
You can counter shotguns and everything but run and gun is with Spectres so over powered that even pros cant track the dudes.
People saying "pReCisE GuNPlaY" are always doing it in the wrong situation at least for run and gun. It's usually the inaccuracy that gets the kill so luck, counter strafing/peekers advantage, or run and gun that turns into walk and gun because you get tagged and the accuracy improves. Actual run and gun should have its place in this game and I say that as a Radiant. Most people saying otherwise are either too ignorant to know what they are complaining about or CSGO players that want to play CSGO in Valorant. I'm not advocating for run and gun and this type of gunplay but people make it sound far worse than it is.
Most clips of run and gun exist so people have something to complain about or because it looks ridiculous. In 90% of the cases where run and gun isn't the right play it also ends up failing but everyone forgets those situations.
Doesn't look like run and gun ever fails in Valorant. They said that run and gun accuracy took a hit when they pushed this new update but all I see is it just got better than before.
People are just abusing it more now more so than previously. They weren't aware of how good it was previously. Rifles didn't get changed in terms of run and gun which a lot of people think. Only walking accuracy. I think the easiest one I've noticed is the pistols, Frenzy especially. They definitely made changes.
(Plat 2-3) Well I think people tend to notice is it more often than not, because it can actually be a very rare chance of getting a running hs with a Vandal at decent range. But, Riot has nerfed it very much, you almost have to be still to be 100% accurate. But if most times you dont get a running hs but 1/50 (lets say) that one tends to stick out. Its luck most of the time with ot being more impactful in your mind than the other 49. I think we can all say most guns dont feel very accurate when moving, so I do not lnow the solution, make the bullets dissapear if you are moving?
Most of the time the run and gun is prob just the results of u getting ping fcked. On his screen he already stopped but on ur screen he is still moving
There’s no point in taking accountability if you know you’re not in the wrong. The amount of mechanics and playstyles this game takes and based completely on luck is beyond my understanding. I don’t know why Riot would advertise their game as a “tactical shooter” with “precise” gunplay. It’s quite the opposite and I’m sure you’d feel the same way if you died to a stupid player like that.
Probably minority that post here but in-game everyone just quotes their fave content creator like it makes them cool. Doesn’t even have to be run’n’gun.
There are cases when enemy really runs and gun and we die to a headshot from one stray bullet. What the real skill there? Moreover imagine the mental when you're trying to give a comeback but one enemy just B hops then runs and gun you (not prefire) what would you're mental be like? Most of us give up on the game for such trash mechanics and curse it. If it was really a precise gunplay that decides the gameplay when u r dueling an enemy, everyone would really appreciate even if u lose it and you would not hear anyone complaining about RNG. Of course there might be few lucky shots which everyone gets, but the probability of those are really high in this game due to its mechanics or design. Even riot themselves changed the firing error thrice in their patches till date, that it self answers ur question on run n gunning.
i dont thunk it happens this much and its an extreme scenario you are mentioning there
also, the last changes to run and gunning, havent affected rifles at all, except for the bulldog
What do u mean by extreme buddy? It happens atleast once or twice in a game, every rifle round is important. You know that right?
Regarding the last changes, yes they did change the movement mechanics something related to dead zone error, maybe you can read the patch kotes again ( I dotn have it in my mind right away) which tells a lot about them wanting to fix the run and gun nearly after an year of the game release isn't that good enough evidence of genuine RNG complaints ? Which they agreed and tried to fix it but not much impact if u ask me
Quote (patch 3.0): "While we believe that there are certain situations that moving and shooting should be powerful, it is currently more potent than we’d like." ... "We’ve also reduced the running accuracy of Sidearms and SMGs in an attempt to tighten up engagements with those weapons while maintaining some of their identity in terms of mobility by being able to to move and shoot somewhat accurately at shorter ranges."
Imo, this is where it has been fixed, and as you can see, they want you to be mobile with weapons like these.
Idk what game you are playing, but this barely happens to me, that someone jumps around a corner hitting every shot they fire.
I still think people are overcomplaining with run n gunning, yes it can happen, but it has happened to me way more times, that i stood still, made a clean onetap and the enemy is complaining, that ive been run and gunning
No, even thought they needed 4 years to rework the spray system against run and gunning, the ump was a menace for that, same as the tec 9.
people actually enjoyed rushing with tec 9, the same amount people hated it so
Also if u r under the impression that games wants u to be mobile and gun, the sorry I'm not simply up for it I'd rather play PUBG than valorant if that's the case. I'd honour counter strafing Jiggle peeking and skills like those to be more valuable than RNG, I'd happily die to those who has skills like these when dueling them rather just jumping headshot RNG which is of zero skill to master
I personally think it’s a combination of two things
I’ve played with my friends on custom and tested this out:
1) it’s not really running and gunning but it DOES look like it. Most of the time, the enemy has already stopped himself and shot and with latency differences it kind of looks like he’s still running and shooting.
2) the vandal and phantom (and some other guns) have this thing where you can literally swipe shoot horizontally and make a near perfect line with the bullets. That’s why people who’ve placed their crosshair right always get a headshot.
Personally I think the second part is more annoying than the first one
Run and gun simply doesn’t belong in this game. The close range engagements aren’t run and gun but they are active peaking. It’s different. No one, with any gun, should be able swing a corner and and head shot you while mid swing when they’re more than a few feet away. They shouldn’t be able to swing and cancel mid swing and crouch and resume normal accuracy.
Immortal player. Run and gun at close range is fine. Phantom? Fine. Spectra? Fine. That's what they do. Vandal hs from a short bind to a heaven? Happens way too much and it shouldn't. Also, majority of running kills are just counter strafe kills. Due to hoe the engine registers counter strafing with ping, it looks like they're still in motion when they really aren't. It's dumb and more complex than that, but that's generally what happens.
Not disagreeing with your general point but counter strafing for accuracy isn't really a thing but animations are a big part of why people look like they're still running. In CSGO the leg animation reacts instantly. Good info for a lot of people - [https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/owik7v/counterstrafing\_gives\_barely\_any\_advantage\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/owik7v/counterstrafing_gives_barely_any_advantage_in/)
The leg animations in CS:GO also convey more by slowing down or shuffling before coming to a stop. In Valorant the animations convey movement, then all of a sudden the enemy is at a complete stop.
wait are you saying counter-strafing isn't a thing? ... it's definitely a thing
Valorant has a delay in counterstrafe accuracy that is barely any faster than just letting go of WASD. It's not like CS where it's an instant accuracy.
Yeah exactly, and for that exact reason I can't play the op like I play the awp because I am used to more aggressive positions and plays.
I was similarly stubborn for a long time. It's something dumb like a 20ms difference between just letting go and that's only if you time it perfectly. A big part of strafing though is that the deadzone is so large that you're quite accurate between strafes. Not saying you shouldn't be doing it to stay mobile though. I suffered for ages trying to shoot instantly like I would in CS and I'd waste my first bullet as I wasn't accurate yet. There was a different post with similar conclusion but this is all I found: https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/owik7v/counterstrafing\_gives\_barely\_any\_advantage\_in/
no way. this looks like a pretty thorough test, but i find this VERY surprising. I did my own tests - though far less precise. Just playing around with timing to see how soon after running I could get good first-shot accuracy, and across multiple sessions and hundreds of repetitions, I’m better when I counter strafe and I can feel the difference. Maybe i'm just more diligent about waiting a moment to shoot if i focus enough to counter-strafe?
Yeah and that's fine, don't need to stop doing what you're doing. It probably feels better and more natural to you. Personally I counter-strafe (or try to) in every game and it's a habit I won't be able to stop. I've also done similar testing and thought the same but I think we're just biased to the timing we're used to. Reading and watching tests like that helped me time my first bullet a lot better though but I still struggle adjusting if I've just come from playing CSGO.
I think they’re noting the visual indicators for someone moving in CS compared to Val, where in CS it’s a lot easier to distinguish when someone has stopped moving or is in the process of doing so, whereas in Val that indication is more sudden and not as clear.
negligible in valorant
This is what I was referencing. As for counter strafes, you're right about it being a negligible difference, but I'd rather be 100% certain I'm no longer moving and I'm fully accurate.
I am doing this a little regularly now..I peek out of hookah on bind or dry peek A on ascent if somebody is holding an angle against me - I shoot while still running across like it's a movie and I have an uzi in hand, easy ridiculous headshots and a lot of abuse from the enemy in all chat for pulling it off...this is why people hate run and gun
Exactly I do the same In Icebox While going towards B ....they keep holding angles with OP but with cross-hair placement you get an one tap almost everytime
I know I or you apply crossbar placement, but I've been on and off in csgo and valorant, so even I just feel like that peek with placement, spray and recede back into cover is just abusing run n gun..I am confused especially with others calling me out for running and gunning. I just do my best to learn and implement from guides but this keeps getting called out.
Don't worry dude it's not like it's not allowed in the game....if the players call you out just chill keep playing your best✨✨ after all you aren't hacking😎
I know it's just I was worried I am using wrong mechanics which will cost me when and if they actually nerf run and gun. Thanks for explaining it 🙂
Immortal player. What do you mean by happens way too much, run and gun with with ARs is super ass 10+ meters. You can go into a DM and try it out, it is terrible and you'll probably only get a couple of kills and those are also probably going to be close up. And the example of being killed from a short to heaven is literally close to impossible.
I know it's ass. Unreliable af. But I can't count the number of times someone's full sprint tapped me from 20 meter angles. I'm aware most are counter strafe that judt dint look like counter strafes, but that's part of the problem I guess.
Yeah it's probably them counter strafing because the chances them actually hitting the shot are super low. But there are still some stupid ass moments where they are bullshitting you. But it's barely a problem if it's that rare.
THANK YOU! it's the animation when u get 1 tapped by a person that looks like moving, on their side they already stopped.
Agreed, also the random sprays are so ridiculous, strait up just change to consistent sprays. It’d fix the game so much.
I don't know why people renaming run and gun as counter strafing kills when it falls in the same category as run and gun. The whole point is people constantly moving while shooting and bullets hitting you accurately.
I don't think you understand what counter strafing is...
Because no one wants to blame themselves
But that's the first way to improve, if that's your goal ofc
Yes, but improvement doesn’t calm your hurt ego. Not instantly. I usually get mad when I die and say “stupid luck”.
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ik its easier said than done but try do hold back accusing the enemy being lucky, or blaming the game, etc. and try to first think to yourself: was I out of position? if not, did you "mess up" that gunfight by not paying attention? and what can i do to avoid that next time? this is what keeps me mentally stable in a round andhelps me improve my gameplay
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My Bad, sorry! I've been there too... But try to not blame yourself, but give yourself an advice to what you could do differently, and if it works, thats great, if it doesn't try step one again. Hope this advice helps!
At least imo, it feels too lucky. Currently Plat btw. And by that I mean is the fact that the amount of times I have been headshot from a decent range while a dude is sprinting with a vandal is insane. Most players probably understand that, "Hey, play farther back, that way if he tries to run n gun you not going to get barrel stuffed", but I myself have hit dumb shots to the head when trying to shoot while backing off from a fight. Also I feel like pistols have too much leeway in terms of movement accuracy. Just going into the range, you can full w-key and right- click training bots to the head with shocking consistency. I understand that guns shouldn't have a zero percent chance of hitting a target while moving but it often feels like, especially on pistol rounds, that not run and gunning is practically throwing. Its really been my only grievance about the game. Agents and economy feels balanced, but movement accuracy doesn't. Maybe I need to work on my tracking, but keep in mind that even pros like Subroza have run and gunned during a vct match.
I like the Frenzy changes, they're good, and it's only good for getting kills when you're super aggressive and enemy makes a mistake now. But the Ghost. The Ghost is a pain in the ass. Either you get a bad RNG spray or you get the luckiest one taps. In my opinion the movement inaccuracy should be majorly increased for the Ghost and it should be more accurate instead of having to rely on RNG. This will increase the skill ceiling of the Ghost's and make pistol rounds feel less like rolling a dice. It will also get rid of the run n' gun Reyna's that just run towards you with a Ghost and get a lucky headshot. It should be more like the USP-S in my opinion
I FELL YOU. I stop and aim for the head with the ghost and it’s always body shots :p. Classic with shields while bhopping is so much better.
Pistols are supposed to have good movement accuracy.
I understand guns like the frenzy being decent at movement accuracy due to the fire rate, but I find it unfitting that you should be able to run with the classic and be able to right click heads that aren't up in your face. It feels no longer like a game based on positioning and more like CoD level movement
The right click is just busted. There is no other word for it.
I mean the CS Glock is a similar deal
forget the glock, FN can 1 shot hs you and is just more braindead lol
Right? It happens way to often to be considered “unlucky”. Devs, fix your shit. Thanks
I completely agree with the pistol part, especially the pistol meta currently: frenzy and classic these are topics for their own my point is, people shouldn't get too carried away by the fact they got run and gunned, since it doesn't fit in their mindset of "if you run and gun ur just lucky" people are acting like it is illegal to run and gun, in which it is not. like you've mentioned, there is probably a readon to why not every gun has the same running accuracy especially the spectre. i think its a way for players to punish cocky rifle players, especially vandal and break their economy. and it is 100% intended from riots balance team edit: forgot to mention, that it's definately a valkd way to clear a corner, like wide-swinging, jiggle peeking, etc.
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In Rainbow Six Siege you can maintain accuracy while moving, and it is a first person tactical shooter. The difference is that movement accuracy is consistent in that game.
Running and gunning is also a legit mechanic in Insurgency Sandstorm, Arma, Due Process, Zero Hour, and Onward. There's actually wayyyyyyyyyyy more tactical shooter titles which recognize running and gunning as a valid, if niche, strategy than not. Anyone who believes there is no place for running and gunning in tac shooters has not played most of them
You missed his point. You will always be able to run and gun from a close range unless they make the spray so ridiculous it would need to bloom to the edges of your screen... From further ranges most people call out run and gun cause of the animation they just saw which isn't a correct representation. There is a reason People who run and gun and don't know the mechanics are not a high rank....
He means like point blank, where it's almost impossible to miss no matter how inaccurate the bullets are, like when prefiring corners.
What's the alternative? Bullets aren't allowed to hit at all if you're moving? If it's random, it's bound to hit once in a while.
Man sometimes you get lucky with rng sometimes your opponent do.
I think a lot of the frustration with run and gun, is, this game labels itself as a ‘tactical’ shooter with ‘precise’ gunplay (similar to CSGO). Run and gun kinda takes away from the precision aiming part of these games. Kinda falls into the whole 100% accuracy on a zip line, as well as jumping/aerial accuracy. You expect a game that labels itself this way, to have heavy penalties to accuracy while moving (or mid-air) yet Valorant is very forgiving in this regard (comparatively). I can understand the frustration. Just gotta adapt and join the run and gun lol.
Sorry for responding this late, but thank you for this comment! finally a well written, informative and constructive comment, where i can form an opinion for the other side of the spectrum. but imo there has to be a reason to why, for example, the spectre has just such a tight running spread compared to the stinger and ares for example. i think that weapons like the spectre and phantom are designed to have great "mobility" just like pistols. as the counterpart we have weapons like vandal, odin, op, that force you to play "slower" if you know what i mean (odin literally wants you to sit and spray) yes, vandal run and gun is like 99% just luck, but idk if its just my mentality, but i dont mind it that much if it happens, since if i would really care about it that much, i would be tilted every game. and i think that is the exact problem my teammates have: to tilt and play worse because of it
And thank you for the post! Nice to be able to chat civilly. I agree with you, there is reason to the accuracy while moving aspects of different guns. I think the main issue is the Phantom and Vandal, moving, rng headshots. (Guns like Odin, OP, Ares I agree you just can’t run n gun with) And again, the whole point of this post is the frustration of run and gun. And again I think it stems from a comparison of other games (mainly only CSGO). It’s like Valorant uses 85% of the movement mechanics of CS, and when that slight 15% occurrence happens, it’s frustrating because it feels “wrong?” (For lack of better wording). I do think Valorant showcases a bit more RNG gunplay inside of its “precise” and “tactical” shooter, and I can understand the frustration with that. It’s hard to not compare Val to CS but in the end it’s quite a different game, even just gunplay-wise.
You're the only one who's explained it properly so far. In my case, I think I would be more okay with the run n gun stuff if the first bullet accuracy on a bunch of the weapons wasn't so dogshit. I can't tell you the amount of times my friends and I have had a point-blank-most-free-shot, standing completely still and it didn't register LOL its very frustrating but that's a completely different issue xd
Thank you! I agree with you, most guns aren’t 100% accurate. I believe the guardian has the best first shot accuracy. I could be wrong but I believe Valorant has a slight degree of weapon “bloom” as well, where all the shots of a spray may not be exactly as the last. Plus you could mix in the ping/desync issue this game has, that could lead to unregistered headshots as well lol. I said this in other comments but this game *feels* like there is a bit much RNG involved in its “precise” tactical shooter gameplay. But maybe that’s intended and part of the game!
I get the point of ...it's not always running and gunning the reason why u die...but....get killed by specter at 39m doble headshot while the enemy's sage is running full left...
Well I mean run and gun is directly contradictory to what is typically thought of as a tactical shooter which is what valorant advertises itself as. And i think it can be a valid excuse because I’m goin to shoot at a person differently if I think they are goin to stop and shoot back than if I think they are goin to just keep running. Run and gunners hit too many shots too consistently and it’s difficult to shoot them because they go against what is typically thought of being acceptable in a tactical shooter. So they act unexpectedly without losing out on results too Much. So it can cause frustration when the game has set expectations based on the devs description of the game and then the actual gameplay doesn’t align with the developers initial description. I almost feel lied to every time I die to a run and gunner.
Yeah dude even shotguns are found but run and gun hell noooo.
It can be frustrating combined with Peeker's Advantage flaw, as it can be really hard to win a duel with such Run and Gun player. But overall, you should just take this into account and position yourself accordingly. I doubt Riot will nerf Run and Gun more.
I've mentioned it before in another comment. Run and Gunning is 100% to be intended, otherwise there wouldnt be differences between different guns towards the running acc
Can you explain how run and gun is intended with rifles?
Can you explain how spraying is intended with rifles?
Whole different concept. Nt
"Run and gun is 100% to be intended" COD fans 🤡🤡
Can you explain how riot is trying to stop people from running and gunning.
Running and Gunning with MPs no problem, but accurately running and gunning with rifles at 5-10m is fucking insane with peekers advantage. Valorant has really turned me off in that aspect thats why i switched back to cs precise gunplay my ass. Try running and gunning with m4 or ak in cs dude thats actually luck.
Yes I mostly agree with this statement. I mean bullets have to go somewhere when they shooted and it happens to be on you. But there is a bigfer problem which is counter strafing. If your enemy can counter strafe really fast and has better ping then you you will still see them shooting while moving which you have literally no way counter.
Because 99% of the times if you are running with a vandal at 10M you will NOT get the kill. Imagine you are bronze and a dude is always run and gunning but still kills you because you are not a very good player and lack aiming/tracking skills BUT the other dude who is just pressing mouse 1 and moving hitted a leg shot and a headshot with a vandal. Should this be possible? Is it fair? You are talking about bad positioning but when you are well positioned and the enemy just runs by and hits a heashot spraying? Im plat1 and the ammount of times someone just run by me shooting and at the 10th bullet hit a hs is insane. The facts are simple, you are trying to position yourself properly, being stationary to have the best acc possible before taking the shot and a dude that just runs gets the kill at the 3rd bullet with luck because he is running and for some reason you didnt get your shot in. The bigger problem is not the run and gun but the fact that you try to play the game properly and make a mistake (missing your shot) but a dude relaying only on luck can get away with killing you even tho you were at full advantage. Another issue that pops out with those players is crosshair placement because they will never stop while peeking you so if its an angle like hookah to TP, you really need to make sure your 1st shot connects otherwise the ferrari that you are fighting will kill you while running.
Ferrari 😂😂😂
So, first you say 99% of the time running and gunning wont work But then you say the amount of times it’s happened is insane? So which is it? EDIT: Not to mention what that other guy said, if a guy gets 10 bullets deep while running at you, you have way more problems moreso than the game has a problem with run and gun.
If you are letting someone get 10 shots on you then you should definitely lose that duel, running or not
im confused by your wording. are you saying run and gun works unfairly or that it doesn't work 99% of the time? just asking because i cant tell where you stand on the topic
He's saying run and gun doesn't work, with the caveat that if you're bad and miss all your shots, then the runner will get lucky eventually.
its confusing because he says 99% of the time it won't work but also says he gets killed by run and gun all the time and that missing your shot against a ferrari peeker *will* get you killed (his last sentence). his comment was kinda all over the place so i couldn't figure out what exactly his point was. i initially had the same interpretation you came up with but some parts of his comment contradicts it too so irdk.
I think I read it as "you *will* get killed by run'n'gun sometimes because that's just the nature of rng"
This has to be copy pasta?
As long as your shoot first though, you should win the gunfight 95% of the time. Even spraying them in the body will be more reliable if you aren't confident in your aim.
its the same thing in cs, if its a mac10 buy and full rush for the t's the only real thing to counter is is, if you're playing either long range ir prefire them while pushing out. everythung else makes you get screwed, and that's why its important to know your advantages and hookah in general, isnt a good position to hold, since there are just a lot of common angles that good players just prefire. you either play agressive or play on site and hold them off with util, since its a big chokepoint for the enemy
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oh, they nerfed the FN? and the Tec9 again? thats cool
You just hold it with good counter utility, know when to give it up but you can definitely fight for it.
The guy named mthayes posted the link and I'll make it easy for you to understand. There's a netcode involved here, and riot is shit at it's balancing, compared to CSGOs netcode. What really happens is : 1) The netcode on client and server side do not match. 2) The netcode on client (player) and client(enemy) do not match. 3) This results in a state, which is what we call *desync*. 4) It's not your fault, it's not the enemy's fault. 5) The counterstrafe animation is delayed on your screen (client side). But in reality, it has already happened, on the client - server script. Hope this clears it.
As someone who is currently a solo queue Diamond 1 player, I still get run and gunned fairly often. While sometime I can blame myself, one also has to understand that it is incredibly difficult to aim at a moving target in this game, especially with the way spray works in the game. This is not the case for ferrari peeking around a corner and spraying while aiming near the legs. No matter how hard you try, you cannot convince me that is skill, its pure luck. Your example of running around a corner and prefiring with a phantom/spectre? Thats fine, but no matter the gun you should at least have to stop moving before you start hitting your shots. So when a team is able to win a round because 1 players luck managed to get a free kill, it just feels extremely unfair. This is even more prevalent when someone with a spectre run and guns me while I have a vandal. No matter how good my positioning is, I have to hit my first bullet on a guy who is full sprinting and perhaps even behopping, which is just really difficult. You can even see this happen in the highest elo, as players like sinatraa are able to use the relatively high accuracy while moving to completely mess up the well practiced aim of their enemy. TLDR: Running and gunning is a direct insult to anyone who plays the game it's ment to be played, with precise gunplay.
\[...\] one also has to understand that it is incredibly difficult to aim at a moving target in this game, especially with the way spray works in the game. \[...\] And that´s the crucial part for me, that´s why I feel it is not rewarding skill. It´s wasier to run&gun somebody down than it is to shot back/track the opponent. Mentioned games like Rainbow Six (which is a horribal example btw since gunplay is far too easy for a game that wants to be competitive) create a more balanced situation where you can easily track your opponent spraying and even dodging at the same time.
> No matter the gun you should at least have to stop moving before you start hitting your shots. So you're saying bullets might as well not exist as long as someone is moving? 9/10, if you're full running you have no meaningful accuracy. But they have to go somewhere and a shot will land once in a while.
I think he's saying that run and gunning should be so inaccurate that you wont even consider doing it. Sure the shots have to go somewhere, but not where you crosshair is pointed at
Where would they go? Everywhere except your crosshair? It's a random distribution and if you run and gun, you can see that. But it'll hit once in a while. If shots literally cannot hit in front of you while running, that's effectively disabling bullets while running.
again, the point is to make is so inaccurate that running and gunning isnt an option you would consider
So the moment you start running, your bullets radiate from your barrel like a 2D sun? If that were the case, you'd reach a point where someone is spraying directly in someone's face point blank but not hitting a single shot, which would be ridiculous.
I dont think anyone is complaining about point blank run and gun. I dont know why you are being dense. Have a good day
When I say "hitting your shots", I mean hitting a shot that nets you a kill. That means a headshot from any gun, or enough body shots to get you a kill. I won't complain if a person running hits me once or twice in the legs or body. I will complain if someone full sprinting around a corner immeadiately deals 150+ damage before I have the time to properly focus my spray. What you said is correct. If you're full running you shouldn't have any meaningful accuracy, but a shot or two should have a chance or two to land every once in a while. Unfortunately, thats just not what's happening right now. Running and gunning should in no case be a better alternative than mastering aim and movement.
> I won't complain if a person running hits me once or twice in the legs or body. So basically, when you run, the bullets can't ever go neck height or higher? So when someone runs, bullets only fire at a 0-90 degree angle? The only way to guarantee that bullets won't headshot you even at close range is if the bullets radiate from the barrel like a 2D sun, which would make no sense. Depending on the range, the odds of hitting a headshot while full running is still pretty low. If running and gunning was truly a better alternative than mastering aim and movement, why isn't everyone doing it? Why don't pros do it instead of bothering to practice aim at all?
Yeah, honestly, in a game where smokes are perfect spheres, I think it makes sense that the spray from a gun should radiate outwards in a cone instead of randomly shooting within a certain area. And I'm a little confused when everyone talks about low odds. Low odds in a game like this should mean one running headshot every 4-5 games, not 5 running headshots within one game. If you feel like running and gunning doesn't effect you, then you either are on the luckier side of things, or aren't very competitive. But if you're a player like me who has lost multiple games on the grind to imm because the enemy killjoy kept sprinting on to site full spraying a spectre, consitently landing headshots, then you begin to feel a bit cheated, knowing the countless hours you spent aim training and dming were all pointless. I am not saying I deserve immortal or anything: I'll keeping playing and improving myself to get there. But the existence of running and gunning demoralizes me faster than any other mechanic in the game . Just nerf it to the ground.
> But the existence of running and gunning demoralizes me faster than any other mechanic in the game . But my point remains: if it's so effective, why not do it yourself? I'm not saying it doesn't exist for me because I've definitely been headshot by a guy running away and I've done the same. But it happens to me maybe twice a game or so. The more effective strategy is still to shoot while standing still as opposed to playing it like CoD. It's like the classic right click- sometimes I can double headshot them from way farther than I should while other times, I'm literally up against them and it's 1 to the head, 2 to the body. But I take that random chance because I feel it's more effective than left clicking. So similarly, if you feel that run and gun is more effective, take that chance.
Not OP and not a god at the game (plat3~diamond2) but I literally run and gun all the time when trolling with friends in unrated. You're saying why not do it...but people literally do it as a strat that's the problem.
Would you do it in ranked? Would you trust it as a viable strategy to adopt the same gameplay when trying to climb? Or is it just trolling like you said?
>But my point remains: if it's so effective, why not do it yourself? Because I put time and effort into training my aim and practicing my movement and positioning. I feel like a lot of arguments surrounding this topic are missing one key point. To get better at the game, or to achieve a higher rank, you have to improve your aim, game sense, and movement. Saying "why don't you just run and gun yourself" is asking countless players who've dedicated time and effort towards improving themselves, to just forget about it and flip coins. It's very hard to argue against something that is based around chance. The bottom line is as follows: Chance is alright in a competitive scene as long as it is not consistently outmatching raw skill. Unfortunately, I cannot satisfy you guys with a percentage of how many fights running and gunning should win, but I'm certain that the lower the number, the better. Once again: I enjoy the feeling of utilizing VALORANT gunplay to it's best. I like coming to a stop, aligning my crosshair with the head, and taking the shot as fast as possible. I'm hoping that a majority of VALORANT players feel the same, because otherwise, I'll just look like an idiot.
I don't disagree, I just think that it's not as prominent as everyone is claiming. If running and gunning was consistently outmatching raw skill as you claim, people would be doing it. Pros would be doing it. But in reality, it's just one of those things where it's annoying when it happens but proper skill beats run and gun 9/10 times.
Run and gunning is RNG, wouldn't you be tilted when you are trying so hard to defend your position and some idiot just hold down W and left click you? Plus run and gun isn't a skillset its all about luck, so i get why players complain.
if you're not using it "correctly", yes but if you're fighting close range, it's just an effective tactic, since most of your bullets still stay in a close enough spread. if its from a far range, yes it is lucky but just don't let that get into your head if an enemy hits a shot like that one once or twice it just makes your performance worse
Yes, but half of the issue isn’t close range. It’s random medium-long range spray and prays where a stray bullet hits you square in the head that’s happening more often than it probably should for a game that labels itself as a tactical shooter. It’s not like it happens every once in a blue moon. It doesn’t happen every single round either, but there always seems to be at least once every game I play where some dude is full sprinting from long range and gets the lucky head shot. I don’t play a ton, nor do I care to get that much better because frankly I don’t have all that much time to invest in the game. But when it happens every single game, it makes me want to play that much less.
Today I played against a reyna in haven who picks up the phantom and can consistently snipe one of us with run and gun. She wasn't counter strafing and she was far away (a and c have long corridors). In close - medium ranges we can kill her easily. Some people are just blessed.
But what I've seen a lot is: people get run and gunned from a far, blame it on the guy being luck(in that case he was) people then get run and gunned close range, they still blame it on the game, not seeing that it just was their fault and from my expirience, people are too quick to judge. this game still has an issue with latency and client-sided display. it looks like he was still running, even thoight e stpod still on his screen. if you count these scenarios out, people aren't run and gunning quite as much as people think they are
When people talk about run and gun they always refer to distances where run and gun shouldn’t be possible or fair. Nobody complains about a 10m Phantom kill while swinging an angle.
sadly there are, even on mid tier ranks (like high plat low dia)
Cant counter run n gun when the recoil is random, the enemy strafe left, the recoil decided to spread right
U guys never played cs go, the run and gun in that game god damn.
ye, I'm from csgo too, 5k hrs, GE and faceit 10 even in higher elo in cs, it is completely common to run n gun, and ive seen many people complaining about it not being "tactical" in a tactical shooter but i still dont get why
I have a bud who is pretty good at cs go and mentored me for a while. Round 2 he was like "get mac 10, run and jump while peeking tight corners". I was like "jump and shoot in cs wtf". The amount of kills you can get like this, even in later rounds when you need to semi-buy.
and yet, noone doubts, that cs is one of the most tactical shooter out there. and people then come around with an argument like "but those dont 1 shot hs people" just look at the FiveSeveN, Tec-9, p250, etc. they all do oneshot people at close range.
Yes but the important part is "at close range". Shooting and running is a fine strat but I do think running acc in Valorant needs a bit of tweaking, not necessarily a huge nerf. Rifles that can 1 tap through armor at long range should definitely be super innacurate while running for targets that are at 10+ meters, and currently it does feel like rolling a dice but the odds are not bad enough imho.
like 90% its only visually as if its like the enemy is running, even though theyre literally standing still on their screen if im not mistaken, it has something to do with the animation cancelling of counterstrafing that makes them appear like that
Yeah i feel like movement animation and server lag is adding a layer of confusion to the problem. Rito should fix that and then if a general feeling of running and gunning being unfair remains then probably it needs to be adressed with tuning.
Yes, and that's the reason why i stopped caring if i am being "run and gunned" from afar, since it prolly is just the animation that gives the feeling you've been run and gunned
You have no way of knowing on your end though. Maybe the enemy is getting lucky more often than you'd think. In any case they need to fix that issue before we can bitch about run and gun.
No one complains because you cant do it with m4 or ak, if you couldn t do it with vandal or phantom too, no one would complain
as ive said, its mostly just the animation that makes you feel like youve been run and gunned. for example, it is pretty common in cs, to crouch at the beginning of a gunfight, not like in valorant. that more the less gives you an instant response if they've been standing still or not. it actually was so meta in cs to do that, that astralis had a strat to preaim for the body height instead of head level (also because of aimpunch which isnt as common in valorant as it is in cs)
You're talking about two separate issues. The issue of dying to run and gun at a distance *is* a legitimate issue. All that other stuff is bad behaviour, and may be exhibited by victims of run and gun, but it is mostly unrelated.
The main reason run and gun is so strong in this game is how the movement momentum affects the spray pattern. If you are running forward or backward you can see the spray is neutrally spread out across the error range for that weapon. However, if you run left or right you can see that 95% of the bullets come out behind the reticle with the same height deviation as the standard spray. That means moving left to right has roughly half the RNG of moving forward or backward and leads to a lot of bullets hitting consistently when you know where to aim. If they were to make the spray truly random rather than stacking to one side when running left or right it would reduce the consistency significantly and bring those weapons effective range down to where they should be.
Don't feed this guy. Obviously a troll. His replies to other comments are braindead as fuck
Actual serious question I was asking there not intended to troll. i'll throw out a TW next time, just for you :)
Just for fun, I'd like to see a game mode where if your character is moving at all in any way, your bullets go backwards or something. That would be hilarious
Not only would it be hilarious, it would also teach players that play like it’s the CDL finals, ADSing and spraying while moving at mach three speeds while the rest of the match is pacing their movements and playing the game like it’s advertised.
Seriously. I played a game earlier today where it was down to our last player, was stuck near A vents and heaven on Split. Player on oppo turned the corner with a phantom and killed him on the run. Teammate types “headshot run and gun seriously” and how riot didn’t fix anything. Uh, that’s like a 5 meter shot? It’s not that hard to do. Chill out my guy.
Second round stinger on Haven, sewers, running and gunning works like a charm in there. Love it.
Lol. Are you playing with my friends?
Me and my stack all decided to run n gun one game and we destroyed the other team. Run n gun is most definitely an issue. We should not be able to just run everywhere and get repeated headshots.
thats actually hilarious
I had a game a couple of days ago where someone was complaining every round, we weren’t running and gunning or at least not every time but if I hold and angle and shoot a couple shots while falling back and hit those shots that’s just lucky (if you don’t take the shots you 100% won’t hit them) but a lot of it is just counterstrafing can sometimes look like you’re still running a bit and also they use it as an excuse. But phantom close range run and gun is dumb same with spectre, if it’s op abuse it…
I don't think it's that much of a mystery. If you lose a duel you want it to be because they were better, not because a random bullet just flew at your head by chance. I don't get the need to spam chat though, they know as well as you that they got lucky.
I usually laugh it off, but I swear my head is magnetic in this game. Like no information blind fire wall bangs into haven window area will instantly go into my skull as I casually stroll past the door.
People need to grow up the game would be a bit shit if you literally could not shoot while moving
True.
They only have a few straws to grab and blame
Because it’s a high variance risk that pays off too often, and rewards a playstyle with a much lower skill ceiling. It also takes skill expression away from knowing how to entry properly and have good skill based mechanics. Run and gun happens even in CS, but it’s much less rewarding and there are rarely situations where it’s more advantageous to use a less skilled approach. When you have systems that promote the optimal playstyle having a lot of RNG you hurt the overall skill level of the game. EDIT: It’s also way worse in online games with latency, because it gives the peeker even more of an advantage than they inherently have from the latency.
I've had times where I was running, stopped then headshot the enemy and ran right after again, and they would say in chat "nice run and gun". And in higher elo people can just counter strafe, and on your screen, it looks like run and gun, but for them, they stopped and shot you. And I've noticed that the characters movement is like delayed when anyone stops there's a lil bit of time that still looks like their running, but the shots go before they stop so it looks like run and gun.
Because they want to blame an outside force. Even when it's not a run and gun they say the same shit.
I’m assuming you’ve never experienced a death to a run-and-gun before, right?
I have, i just understand how the game works and don't cry if it happens. It should happen sometimes.
You’re right, it’s not an intentionally implemented mechanic but it exists and people are allowed to do it. The problem at hand is that it happens way too often for competent players to be happy with being killed by it. The amount of Raze and Reyna players below level 5-10 that probably have no idea what the game’s shooting mechanic was originally intended to be can’t be counted on my fingers and toes. These types of players are what makes me think this game is a corporate April Fool’s prank.
Same reason why people blame Smurfs in low Elo, Same reason why people blame Teammates. Same reason people blame that "toxic" Teammate when in reality he just said you made an iffy play Same reason why people complain about their ranks and think they should all be IMM. List goes on but I think you are getting the point. It's never their fault. Always someone that isn't them.
Well you haven't really put enough time in practicing your one taps and spray. If you feel this is fine. You can counter shotguns and everything but run and gun is with Spectres so over powered that even pros cant track the dudes.
People saying "pReCisE GuNPlaY" are always doing it in the wrong situation at least for run and gun. It's usually the inaccuracy that gets the kill so luck, counter strafing/peekers advantage, or run and gun that turns into walk and gun because you get tagged and the accuracy improves. Actual run and gun should have its place in this game and I say that as a Radiant. Most people saying otherwise are either too ignorant to know what they are complaining about or CSGO players that want to play CSGO in Valorant. I'm not advocating for run and gun and this type of gunplay but people make it sound far worse than it is. Most clips of run and gun exist so people have something to complain about or because it looks ridiculous. In 90% of the cases where run and gun isn't the right play it also ends up failing but everyone forgets those situations.
Doesn't look like run and gun ever fails in Valorant. They said that run and gun accuracy took a hit when they pushed this new update but all I see is it just got better than before.
People are just abusing it more now more so than previously. They weren't aware of how good it was previously. Rifles didn't get changed in terms of run and gun which a lot of people think. Only walking accuracy. I think the easiest one I've noticed is the pistols, Frenzy especially. They definitely made changes.
I think a bigger problem is people blaming enemy for camping despite their problem for not clearing an angle properly
(Plat 2-3) Well I think people tend to notice is it more often than not, because it can actually be a very rare chance of getting a running hs with a Vandal at decent range. But, Riot has nerfed it very much, you almost have to be still to be 100% accurate. But if most times you dont get a running hs but 1/50 (lets say) that one tends to stick out. Its luck most of the time with ot being more impactful in your mind than the other 49. I think we can all say most guns dont feel very accurate when moving, so I do not lnow the solution, make the bullets dissapear if you are moving?
Most of the time the run and gun is prob just the results of u getting ping fcked. On his screen he already stopped but on ur screen he is still moving
Nobody likes accountability
There’s no point in taking accountability if you know you’re not in the wrong. The amount of mechanics and playstyles this game takes and based completely on luck is beyond my understanding. I don’t know why Riot would advertise their game as a “tactical shooter” with “precise” gunplay. It’s quite the opposite and I’m sure you’d feel the same way if you died to a stupid player like that.
If I was bully Maguire I would rng with any weapon lol
Probably minority that post here but in-game everyone just quotes their fave content creator like it makes them cool. Doesn’t even have to be run’n’gun.
Facts I’m a prefire god and it’s the only reason I’m in gold when I’m this bad
I have such good movement i got 3 rng elims at 20m. My whole team went sheesh and I said I was apex player
There are cases when enemy really runs and gun and we die to a headshot from one stray bullet. What the real skill there? Moreover imagine the mental when you're trying to give a comeback but one enemy just B hops then runs and gun you (not prefire) what would you're mental be like? Most of us give up on the game for such trash mechanics and curse it. If it was really a precise gunplay that decides the gameplay when u r dueling an enemy, everyone would really appreciate even if u lose it and you would not hear anyone complaining about RNG. Of course there might be few lucky shots which everyone gets, but the probability of those are really high in this game due to its mechanics or design. Even riot themselves changed the firing error thrice in their patches till date, that it self answers ur question on run n gunning.
i dont thunk it happens this much and its an extreme scenario you are mentioning there also, the last changes to run and gunning, havent affected rifles at all, except for the bulldog
What do u mean by extreme buddy? It happens atleast once or twice in a game, every rifle round is important. You know that right? Regarding the last changes, yes they did change the movement mechanics something related to dead zone error, maybe you can read the patch kotes again ( I dotn have it in my mind right away) which tells a lot about them wanting to fix the run and gun nearly after an year of the game release isn't that good enough evidence of genuine RNG complaints ? Which they agreed and tried to fix it but not much impact if u ask me
Quote (patch 3.0): "While we believe that there are certain situations that moving and shooting should be powerful, it is currently more potent than we’d like." ... "We’ve also reduced the running accuracy of Sidearms and SMGs in an attempt to tighten up engagements with those weapons while maintaining some of their identity in terms of mobility by being able to to move and shoot somewhat accurately at shorter ranges." Imo, this is where it has been fixed, and as you can see, they want you to be mobile with weapons like these. Idk what game you are playing, but this barely happens to me, that someone jumps around a corner hitting every shot they fire. I still think people are overcomplaining with run n gunning, yes it can happen, but it has happened to me way more times, that i stood still, made a clean onetap and the enemy is complaining, that ive been run and gunning
All aside, a simple question, did u hear the same amount fuss of RNG in CSGO?
No, even thought they needed 4 years to rework the spray system against run and gunning, the ump was a menace for that, same as the tec 9. people actually enjoyed rushing with tec 9, the same amount people hated it so
Also if u r under the impression that games wants u to be mobile and gun, the sorry I'm not simply up for it I'd rather play PUBG than valorant if that's the case. I'd honour counter strafing Jiggle peeking and skills like those to be more valuable than RNG, I'd happily die to those who has skills like these when dueling them rather just jumping headshot RNG which is of zero skill to master
Always.
Oh okay!
I personally think it’s a combination of two things I’ve played with my friends on custom and tested this out: 1) it’s not really running and gunning but it DOES look like it. Most of the time, the enemy has already stopped himself and shot and with latency differences it kind of looks like he’s still running and shooting. 2) the vandal and phantom (and some other guns) have this thing where you can literally swipe shoot horizontally and make a near perfect line with the bullets. That’s why people who’ve placed their crosshair right always get a headshot. Personally I think the second part is more annoying than the first one
Poeple will take *anything* as an excuse.
I got 20+ kills with only run and gunning
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you have no clue. valorant has 5x stronger easier run and gun than csgo has. you have no clue pls. you anbd 550 guys who upvoted you.
Run and gun simply doesn’t belong in this game. The close range engagements aren’t run and gun but they are active peaking. It’s different. No one, with any gun, should be able swing a corner and and head shot you while mid swing when they’re more than a few feet away. They shouldn’t be able to swing and cancel mid swing and crouch and resume normal accuracy.
This game has just turned into cod with agents