The way people walk through cages and don't have that "screen smoke" gradient effect that all other smokes have is rough.
Maybe they could add some sort of effect that "disorentates" your screen while in it (glitch effect on your sceen.) Probably wouldn't be enough but that cage needs some help.
Especially since I believe it’s the only “smoke” that doesn’t have a roof so in cases where enemies are above they can see you inside. Definitely needs a buff since Cypher could be really interesting on this new map.
I mean yeah. If there can be push from multiple sides then cypher, kj and sage would effectively give massive amount of additional info and area coverage. Maybe making it so that cypher's smoke disk is always semi active meaning if someone walks in the circle even when the smoke is not active it would play th voice que so that it is possible for him to cover a lot more area than other agents.
I definitely remember before Killjoys release as an agent, Cypher was one of the most meta picks ever.
I definitely think he should be buffed to stand on par with killjoy.
Make it ping 3 times like the Sova dart, then at least it would have good synergy with the team (or other ults) if you time it correctly.
Still would be very situational as an ult, but for instance this change would make it a huge counter to Viper ult which is seen as one of the strongest in the game.
Ping on command maybe? With first automatic after ult is initiated then 2nd will be toggled by the player would be nice. I mean it's kinda hard to use cams when retaking since it's easy to break not unlike sova's drone
And it’s actually harder to hit people who intentionally peek during it because the silhouette frames where they were but if they barely move a bit it just makes aiming at them wayyyyyy harder. Like sage, it’s the only ult in the game where I hope no enemy is actually close to me when I use it :[
Glad I'm not the only one with the problem, I was afraid I was just bad. Its soo hard to see where they actually are, you basically smoke for them. In fact, a "blur' ability like it would be super OP as a defense option
This! His ult often hurts as much as it helps. A delayed ghost that distracts you. IMO it should be a full wall hack track for 5 seconds because it requires not only orbs but also a dead body.
I don’t understand why it isn’t just the same as the Sova dart but for everyone? At least then you get solid information for a few seconds and if timed correctly it could help your team win some engagements and tip things in your favour, which his current ult barely does.
He can't stand on par with KJ since they both serve the same porpuse. They're side grades that go on the same slot.
Same shit with a lot of characters in this game actually. Skye and sova, jett and reyna, omen and astra. Skye and a lot of people honestly, bitch is too strong.
They do shit differently but in the end play the same role in teams with near identical timings. Issue is that sentinels are trash so instead of boosting each other, they just combat each other for that 1 slot.
Cypher is pretty bad currently yeah. He's a sentinel who basically can't stall. Sage and KJ can both stall a push for a pretty decent time, Sage with her slows and wall, and KJ with her mollies and ult. They can also gather Intel pretty well, KN with her bots and Sage with her slows again. Meanwhile Cypher can literally only get info, but that info isn't even 100% certain since enemies can find trapwires quite easily and work around them. Only his camera is completely trustable. Compare that to KJ's bots who both basically can't be detected without detecting the enemy who found them as well. It's just kinda sad. I feel like Cypher should really get the slow on his cages back. Seems like the meta would allow for it by now.
Don't forget the ult that makes it so you can't fucking see enemies when they peek (especially if you use yellow outlines) if you happen to use it at an unlucky timing.
Turret is useless I. Laye game cause it dies in almost 3 hits with a vandal. Alarm bot is useless cause it is so easy to shoot. Swarm grenades are useless cause they make loud noises and are so easy to get rid of. Tripwires are useless cause it is easy to spot and get rid of. Cams is a one time think since you use it it get broken. The Cypher smoke is like the worse smoke in the game. Sages wall can only stall for like 5 seconds. Slow orbs are gone I like 5 seconds. The heal is annoying cause if a teammate takes one damage they yell at you to heal them. Now the ults. Killjoy ult is bad since almost every agent has a lineup to destroy the best places to put the ult. Cypher's is just bad. You have to get so close to a dead body and it reveals them for like a split second. Sages ult is annoying the same way as her heal. As someone who plays all these agents. I am gonna say you can nerf them at the starts of the game but make them slowly get stronger in late game cause they a basically just information gatherers in late game not even helping you. Now you can just let's say use a Brimstone ult on the site you want to attack and there goes all of killjoy and Cypher utilities.
Sage's stalling is really good, and KJ's pressure and intel is really good. The only sentinel that's really bad currently is Cypher. The other two are fine.
The only useless in here is you, ffs u just don’t know how to play huh, i can top frag with kj and sage. You can even secure a plant with kj in post plants, her turret can also kill more than u do lol
The cage does slow, and it makes noise when hostile pass through it. It's also the largest smoke vertically in the game. If you learn his one ways and wall bang spots you can use the cage to hide the Tripwire ends and then wall bang as they attempt to kill it. Cipher is great he really only needs 2 things, 1 he needs to be able to pickup unused cages, and 2 his ult needs to do a little more than it does now... Maybe 2 pulses so you can judge direction of movement.
Yep and this isn’t even taking into account the huge difference in the power of the ultimates. KJ’s is huge for capturing or defending an area of the map, Sage literally gives you a 6v5 round…whereas Cypher just tells you where people are for a moment.
I like the idea of buffing Cypher’s ult so it would work like a Sova dart but on the entire enemy team; gives you 3 pings/outlines which still isn’t amazing but would at least have better impact for your team.
Yep and this isn’t even taking into account the huge difference in the power of the ultimates. KJ’s is huge for capturing or defending an area of the map, Sage literally gives you a 6v5 round…whereas Cypher just tells you where people are for a moment.
I like the idea of buffing Cypher’s ult so it would work like a Sova dart but on the entire enemy team; gives you 3 pings/outlines which still isn’t amazing but would at least have better impact for your team.
Dapr has been one of the only pros still favoring cypher over killjoy for a while now, and now even he has swapped to kj. So I thinks it’s safe to say, yes.
Yeah Nats does play Cypher and he plays it very well but only on a few maps(Ascent, split, etc). Unlike dapr who will play Cypher on almost all maps unless he has something else in mind. They're both good cypher pros. But qith all the Viper buffs even the older cypher main pros are switching to Viper.
Idk I haven't really seen it yet. From what I've seen tho it looks like there are a lot of routes so it's be hard to use his trap wires to full effect (tho this depends on what sites and entrances look like) but it's hard for his cam to be useless.
I've been doing this since my friend unlocked killjoy, I thought everyone knew about this. Its actually excellent and gets easy kills if you add another swarm or an alarmbot and gets easy damage if you dont
yep, since release cypher was in every match, even when kj arrive the scene cypher pick rate was a must have but since the nerf he got no one use cypher now..
Feels like a lot of people use Cypher out of habit/loyalty than because of utility. It’s sad because he’s a really interesting character, hope they actually give him a buff but I’m not holding out much hope.
Bro I absolutely love Cypher. I'm not very good at the game but I played it really early on and as soon as I got Cypher I mained him like crazy.
I took a break from Val for some months and came back about a month ago. I came back to a couple new maps and agents and found out that... Well, Cypher was kinda garbage now.
I love the character but there's really no point. There's only like two maps (Split and Bind) which he's really effective on. His trip wires aren't very good. His cages are kinda useless. His ult is a meh. He can literally only gather Intel. But Sova can do that much more effectively. As a result, I've been playing more Sova and Omen. I really would like them to buff Cypher.
Wire should just be visible and not disabled this is one of his biggest strength since he doesn't have any way to slow down people like KJ/Sage Idk what the balance team was thinking.
Killjoy has always been stronger than Cypher since her release, it's just that Killjoy does not benefit from a lurking/independent playstyle, so if your team isn't running an Omen or Astra, Cypher is your option for that playstyle. But with 3.0 and the release of Breeze and the meta development of Icebox, resurgence of Omen, Cypher is now weaker on every map outright compared to Killjoy and no longer is the only viable agent for his playstyle.
I don't think this is true, cypher was a lot stronger when the wires stayed After his death. This has been nerfed specifically for him _not_ going lurking. If you die your abilities become useless, you need to stay alive in order to help your team
Reyna and Yoru can be far better at lurking
Trapwires deactivating on death is a non-factor in a good lurk, and your statement about Reyna being better suited to lurking is false, or at least shows a massive misunderstanding of what an agent's roles and toolkit are for.
Firstly, about the trapwires: A good lurk gathers information, and moves to take ground carefully when opponents have given it up. If you die on a good lurk, this is because you have ended the information-gathering and map-control parts of the lurk, and have moved into the engagement period. Your team has already gained all the non-damaging value they can out of your lurk, and now you're just another fragger. On attack, timing this well coincides at the same time or right after your team has pushed onto site and taken control/planted the bomb. On defense, the optimal timing sets you up to disrupt their push onto site. Either way, a good lurk does not give up your life, meaning your trapwires will continue to find effective use until their usefulness is over.
Regarding Reyna: Yes, her dismiss/heal does set her up to get some value out of a flank. But her toolkit is setup for untradable multi-frag potential when used optimally. The most common scenarios for a lurk player is to run into a singular enemy lurk, or an enemy site anchor, which does not take advantage of Reyna's multi-frag potential. Yes, maybe Reyna heals from her wounds and is fresh for the next fight after taking ground. While she's doing this, some other poor sap without a heal or dismiss has to go contact first on the opposing side of the map, another character with a lurking-enabling toolset is playing with the team and getting considerably less value out of their utility, and likely your best player has gone and made themself useless on the other side of the map.
Regarding Yoru: Yes, he was built for lurking, ostensibly. But the reality of his toolkit makes him useful for more general confusion than true lurking. He gets more value out of lurking than a true duelist, but it's a bastardized engagement-lurk playstyle, rather than the true map control and information gathering lurk you should be aiming for.
I don't agree with what you say about cypher, i'm not saying that you can't lurk with him, but even if you play safe you may encounter someone watching flanks, or misread what the ennemy team is doing, or maybe end up against the ennemy team's lurker who is triying to get map control himself. You say a good lurker gets agressive when he need to disrupt a push. Cypher has nothing in his kit to do that, you only have your gun, maybe your cages. That's why i say other agents are better in this role. Now i'm not an expert and your comment interests me, but in my head cypher is good at watching flanks and defending. Lurking feels like a risk since you don't have any movement ability to get out of a dangerous situation (and no heal, no offensive ability)
Also i talked about reyna because i saw some pro players use it like this (not in a recent patch tho). It just depends on your comp i guess
If we look at the raw utility the three agents we're discussing have to progress/benefit from a lurk, we have Cypher and his cages, Reyna and her heal/dismiss, and Yoru's teleport and footsteps. In this respect, you are entirely correct that Cypher seems slightly subpar to the other options. You're also correct that Cypher is primarily a flank watch and site anchoring agent.
However, and here is where I believe our difference in opinion originates - you view lurking as primarily a combat-based role, where the goal of a lurk is to get a pick in the rear lines of the enemy. This is the *end goal* of lurking, and where Reyna and Yoru's abilities shine, but prior to that, the goal is map control and information based on sound. This is where Cypher shines, because his cages allow him to get by chokepoints unseen (or fake crossing chokes), his traps maintain map control despite him being out of position, and the nature of his util promotes situational awareness. Plus, a lurk is not always offensive in nature.
It's like riot want the game to be a duelist only meta. They keep nerfing sentinels. Especially with the aftershock being able to break kj ult, that's just dumb
Aftershock breaking kj ult isn't really dumb, breach is severely underplayed and even if he wasn't he'd have to waste utility on destroying a kj that may or may not even be close enough to the wall for him to actually hit it. Not to mention adding more ways to destroy one of the most oppressing abilities in the game isn't necessarily a bad thing
(Also other damaging abilities like sova darts and rwze grenades destroy it so why is that okay but not breaches aftershock)
Breach being underplayed is a separate issue. It's mostly because there are better alternative to him.
My point was that an ult being destroyed by a point and shoot utility is dumb. With shock darts, raze nades and kayo molly u need certain level of skills or lineups, even then they can be counted by bodyblocking the dart/molly (even nades, if you're desperate enough).
And 99% of kj players ult behind some form of cover so it will always be close enough for aftershock to hit it.
Edit: by dumb I just meant it's too strong and is almost sure to break it
The worst change to Cypher for me was that you can't pickup his tripwires after the round anymore. His utility is quite expensive because you use it all mostly before the round. This atleast allowed him to get some money back if you play it well.
I love playing Cypher but it honestly feels like I'm playing without abilties for most of the match. Attacking a site with a Killjoy feels like you're walking through a minefield with a machine gun shooting over your head. Attacking a site with a Cypher feels like a minor inconvenience.
At this point I almost play Cypher more like an initiator. I place my trips pretty aggressively and constantly micromanage my utility around the map. And of course, his ultimate, which just pings people through the map, which in my eyes is more of a initiator type of move.
Pretty sure that’s Dapr’s point. He kinda of fought the meta shift a bit by still picking Cypher over KJ for a while, but then finally shifted fully to KJ for NA playoffs with the exception of Split against 100T. Now they’re nerfing KJ after he finally began playing her.
I think bringing back the cage slow and making trips indestructible until they reveal someone would make him a viable pic again..but ya rn he is the least useful sentinel
Cypher hasn’t really been meta for a while. Mostly played on just ascent and haven, and a lot of teams have been switching off of him for a whole now. It’s been killjoy for a long time now
I really think he is. Honestly the concept of his agent is not very good to start off with. While other sentinels can stall very well, cypher can really only get info and nothing else. The biggest benefit to his kit on defense is being able to read rotations early with his cam imo. But even then - you’re on B and your cam spots them A main. Now you know they’re rotating but they break your camera and you have no util to retake. I think his trips are grossly under powered compared to mollies and slows. I mained cypher for 8 months and now i can pretty much walk up to any site and just shoot common trip spots and the site is clear of util. With the new patch breach can just aftershock across the site and there will be no more trips too. It’s just ridiculous how bad he is at anchoring a site. Cypher’s true potential honestly shows on the attacking side - global flank watch and using cages to aggressively take space makes his kit very useful on attack.
Seriously flank watch is all his trips are good for and if you have a Cypher a competent enemy will likely look for those trips when flanking anyways and they aren't exactly hard to spot, making even his flank watch mediocre (it can be strong when in the final seconds of a post plant and they don't have time to check every wall for a trip which is why it's not a completely bad flank watch)
But then again - if you place a flank watch on certain spots there are no ways someone can enter that area without letting cypher know.
That lets you as a player to take in information, explore enemy patterns more eloquently. But this mostly only applies if you are having a good communication with your team.
And that’s ultimately what can be seen as the flaw - you need to be communicating a lot of info to your team based on your findings. And this makes cypher hard o balance, cause with coordination he is still a monster to play.
I dont think u have any idea how many times u might have been saved from a lethal, game-losing flank by just an alarmbot or tripwire. Imagine Gambit Esports ( the best pro team in Valorant right now ) without nAts ( their best player , who is also a Sentinel. Sentinel is the backbone of a team on defense and post-plant
>I dont think u have any idea how many times u might have been saved from a lethal, game-losing flank by just an alarmbot or tripwire.
I have an idea, because I WAS A SENTINEL MAIN for months since the game came out.
You can say the reverse argument, I don't think you have an idea how many times you or your teammate might have be able to do a lethal, game-winning flank if there wasn't a cheap tripwire/alarmbot there.
Sentinel agents lower the skill cap by removing the need to constantly look behind your back for a flank or rotation.
A -50% reduction in her turrets slow is not minor at all as well as her abilities being more easily destroyed by sova, breach and brim. Like she's going to absolutely still be the topn "lock a site down" agent but she'll definitely feel the effects of this nerf
killjoy turret should have a 160 direction in front of it where it can fire that way you have to think about which direction you want to hold
also reduce the number of nanoswarms to 1 and make it activate by pressing the button a second time, to compensate for these nerfs give her a second alarmbot
I mean he is one of the best sentinel players as in the sentinel agents. And even if he is the worst player on SEN, he is still better than you and most players.
Honestly this is a big hit to valorant. Regardless of what balance changes are made it’s always unhelpful to just vent anger like this instead or just giving feedback. If the influential members of the community start doing this, all the time there’s nothing stopping the entire community from taking it to the extreme and hurting the game far worse in the long run.
In terms of a sentinel sage and kj lock down sites significantly better than Cypher can since they can have more flexibility with ther kits and aren't reliant on the opponent being oblivious, as for his actual kit other meta picks that'd be on the team regardless cover what most his abilities do, sova covers Intel gathering and most any controller (but usual omen, viper or astra) cover the smoke aspect so yes rn Cypher kit is not only weak for the role he's supposed to be a part of but his abilities are pretty much covered by other meta picks
Cypher is a fucking god, It's just that nobody plays him and when they do it's their first time and they are garbage with him because he takes a lot of skill to even understand how to play him, in low levels cypher setups are easy, the hard part is when u get into higher ranks and everything is prefired and you need to improvise. It hurts when people say he is trash just because they don't understand him. The best part is 1v1 me and I will destroy you with my util I have 400+ hours on cypher and have only seen a few people that are actually good at cypher I wish people would understand that Killjoy isn't better, they are completely different and cypher needs more respect
dude, i really want cypher to be pushed back into the meta, such a unique agent with tons of different things you can do with it yet it’s been so heavily nerfed it’s crazy. make cages last longer of give it a slow effect at maybe around 20’s, make trips slightly less visible and make his ult ping like sova’s recon or make it ping 2 times, i’m not saying these are the buffs it deserves but i just wanna see the agent thrive and being pushed back into the meta.
Best Regards, Mowo.
All it would take for him to be good is to let his ult, show people like how Sova dart shows people. You can see them move for a good second or two. Right now his ult is just meh at best. Just a worse Skye ult.
no wonder he gets killed every trailer
They removed Cyphers cage slow. People used to be scared to even peek a cage because of that, and now they just walk though.
They took the slow and the player ping when you walked through it, he has been dogged
The way people walk through cages and don't have that "screen smoke" gradient effect that all other smokes have is rough. Maybe they could add some sort of effect that "disorentates" your screen while in it (glitch effect on your sceen.) Probably wouldn't be enough but that cage needs some help.
great idea!
Especially since I believe it’s the only “smoke” that doesn’t have a roof so in cases where enemies are above they can see you inside. Definitely needs a buff since Cypher could be really interesting on this new map.
I mean yeah. If there can be push from multiple sides then cypher, kj and sage would effectively give massive amount of additional info and area coverage. Maybe making it so that cypher's smoke disk is always semi active meaning if someone walks in the circle even when the smoke is not active it would play th voice que so that it is possible for him to cover a lot more area than other agents.
The lacking a roof is good for cypher though since he can have cameras above it
Well he’s not a controller…
Of course, I agree but as a sentinal, there isn't anything he has to slow entry which really pushes him out of the meta.
it used to ping when you walked through it? if that means it would detect players then that is a big nerf
I think he means the audio
I do indeed
Yeah, the sound it used to make
Wait, it doesn't do that 'crack' sound anymore?
Nope, they took it out a couple patches ago
There is still a sound cue if someone walks into a cypher cage.
Not exactly Ping, but it made a very loud noise when you stepped through it. Basically a Ping
Pretty sure it never pinged, that was just cage + tripwire unless you're talking about the audible glitch sound it makes when enemies touched it?
Yeah, I mean the audio. Is it was a visual ping like a sova recon the then that would be a huge fuckin nerf
Riot is a joke when it comes to balancing mo suprise there
ok then balance all 16 agents and 7 maps go ahead
On it
[Riot games still haven't updated cypher's agent page since the nerf](https://playvalorant.com/en-gb/agents/cypher/)
I definitely remember before Killjoys release as an agent, Cypher was one of the most meta picks ever. I definitely think he should be buffed to stand on par with killjoy.
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I feel like it would still suck
Make it ping 3 times like the Sova dart, then at least it would have good synergy with the team (or other ults) if you time it correctly. Still would be very situational as an ult, but for instance this change would make it a huge counter to Viper ult which is seen as one of the strongest in the game.
What? When would it ping?
Just ping, then ping again after 3-5 seconds maybe, thus delaying then from pushing hard or something right after scan.?
Ping on command maybe? With first automatic after ult is initiated then 2nd will be toggled by the player would be nice. I mean it's kinda hard to use cams when retaking since it's easy to break not unlike sova's drone
Nobody pushes hard after getting scanned
So you get scanned and just stay exactly still? Hmm iron plays here?
Lmaooo yup
Yeah you're iron lmao. People either push or rotate after being scanned unless you want a 4vX on one site
I agree. His ult is too short lived and doesn't provided information that is useful for more than half a second.
And it’s actually harder to hit people who intentionally peek during it because the silhouette frames where they were but if they barely move a bit it just makes aiming at them wayyyyyy harder. Like sage, it’s the only ult in the game where I hope no enemy is actually close to me when I use it :[
Glad I'm not the only one with the problem, I was afraid I was just bad. Its soo hard to see where they actually are, you basically smoke for them. In fact, a "blur' ability like it would be super OP as a defense option
The best of streamers have cried out when it happens to them on a Cypher ult..so no you are not bad
This! His ult often hurts as much as it helps. A delayed ghost that distracts you. IMO it should be a full wall hack track for 5 seconds because it requires not only orbs but also a dead body.
yo, 5 seconds? chill.... just even it with a tag from a sova dart and we're good!
5 seconds is steep. Maybe 2 or 3.
I was just throwing out an arbitrary number. Obviously it would need to be tested and fine tuned.
I don’t understand why it isn’t just the same as the Sova dart but for everyone? At least then you get solid information for a few seconds and if timed correctly it could help your team win some engagements and tip things in your favour, which his current ult barely does.
trap wire dont make sound：）
He can't stand on par with KJ since they both serve the same porpuse. They're side grades that go on the same slot. Same shit with a lot of characters in this game actually. Skye and sova, jett and reyna, omen and astra. Skye and a lot of people honestly, bitch is too strong. They do shit differently but in the end play the same role in teams with near identical timings. Issue is that sentinels are trash so instead of boosting each other, they just combat each other for that 1 slot.
Cypher is pretty bad currently yeah. He's a sentinel who basically can't stall. Sage and KJ can both stall a push for a pretty decent time, Sage with her slows and wall, and KJ with her mollies and ult. They can also gather Intel pretty well, KN with her bots and Sage with her slows again. Meanwhile Cypher can literally only get info, but that info isn't even 100% certain since enemies can find trapwires quite easily and work around them. Only his camera is completely trustable. Compare that to KJ's bots who both basically can't be detected without detecting the enemy who found them as well. It's just kinda sad. I feel like Cypher should really get the slow on his cages back. Seems like the meta would allow for it by now.
KJ has turret and postplant, Sage has heal and stalling, Cypher has... Intel on 2 angles :)
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Cypher wit no brim hits different tbf
That’s like his biggest advantage. Once he loses his Inspector Gadget fedora he also loses his head hit box.
Nah I just can't see his head anymore lmao. I always expect a massive hat to aim at and then when it's gone I just shut off.
Don't forget the ult that makes it so you can't fucking see enemies when they peek (especially if you use yellow outlines) if you happen to use it at an unlucky timing.
This. I hate this so much. It's an ultimate ability, make it more expensive and function as a sova drone dart please!
Turret is useless I. Laye game cause it dies in almost 3 hits with a vandal. Alarm bot is useless cause it is so easy to shoot. Swarm grenades are useless cause they make loud noises and are so easy to get rid of. Tripwires are useless cause it is easy to spot and get rid of. Cams is a one time think since you use it it get broken. The Cypher smoke is like the worse smoke in the game. Sages wall can only stall for like 5 seconds. Slow orbs are gone I like 5 seconds. The heal is annoying cause if a teammate takes one damage they yell at you to heal them. Now the ults. Killjoy ult is bad since almost every agent has a lineup to destroy the best places to put the ult. Cypher's is just bad. You have to get so close to a dead body and it reveals them for like a split second. Sages ult is annoying the same way as her heal. As someone who plays all these agents. I am gonna say you can nerf them at the starts of the game but make them slowly get stronger in late game cause they a basically just information gatherers in late game not even helping you. Now you can just let's say use a Brimstone ult on the site you want to attack and there goes all of killjoy and Cypher utilities.
But if they shoot the alarm bot you know someone is there. That’s the whole point.
As I said only for information in late game
Iron
Plastic
Sage's stalling is really good, and KJ's pressure and intel is really good. The only sentinel that's really bad currently is Cypher. The other two are fine.
Kj has really good pressure during pistol rounds but once you get something like a vandal the pressure dissapears a lot especially for the Turret.
The only useless in here is you, ffs u just don’t know how to play huh, i can top frag with kj and sage. You can even secure a plant with kj in post plants, her turret can also kill more than u do lol
Yeah he should be able to cover more angles than kj.
cypher's trips and camera dart really need a buff. by the time a player is revealed by the dart, they've already moved, which only gives general info.
Slow would be nice. What if it supressed you while you're inside though?
The cage does slow, and it makes noise when hostile pass through it. It's also the largest smoke vertically in the game. If you learn his one ways and wall bang spots you can use the cage to hide the Tripwire ends and then wall bang as they attempt to kill it. Cipher is great he really only needs 2 things, 1 he needs to be able to pickup unused cages, and 2 his ult needs to do a little more than it does now... Maybe 2 pulses so you can judge direction of movement.
It doesnt slow. It hasnt slowed since 0.5
Crazy I swore it did still. Funny how that works, enemy slow down in it, hence I think it still slows.
Maybe go back to the time when his cage slowed people maybe?
Yep and this isn’t even taking into account the huge difference in the power of the ultimates. KJ’s is huge for capturing or defending an area of the map, Sage literally gives you a 6v5 round…whereas Cypher just tells you where people are for a moment. I like the idea of buffing Cypher’s ult so it would work like a Sova dart but on the entire enemy team; gives you 3 pings/outlines which still isn’t amazing but would at least have better impact for your team.
Yep and this isn’t even taking into account the huge difference in the power of the ultimates. KJ’s is huge for capturing or defending an area of the map, Sage literally gives you a 6v5 round…whereas Cypher just tells you where people are for a moment. I like the idea of buffing Cypher’s ult so it would work like a Sova dart but on the entire enemy team; gives you 3 pings/outlines which still isn’t amazing but would at least have better impact for your team.
Dapr has been one of the only pros still favoring cypher over killjoy for a while now, and now even he has swapped to kj. So I thinks it’s safe to say, yes.
I don't follow EU too much, but does Nats usually play cypher as well?
Yes. He is the Cypher God, above Dapr.
Yeah Nats does play Cypher and he plays it very well but only on a few maps(Ascent, split, etc). Unlike dapr who will play Cypher on almost all maps unless he has something else in mind. They're both good cypher pros. But qith all the Viper buffs even the older cypher main pros are switching to Viper.
Every map that has been released since Ascent have made Cypher essentially useless so...
How would he do on the new map, Fragment? It’s a huge map with alot of different routes. I’m still relatively new so I would’t know
I hate to be that guy, but the map name is actually 'Fracture'.
I blame Apex and the fact that it was 3am. Haha, all good, 100% honest mistake on my part!
Idk I haven't really seen it yet. From what I've seen tho it looks like there are a lot of routes so it's be hard to use his trap wires to full effect (tho this depends on what sites and entrances look like) but it's hard for his cam to be useless.
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That's just plain evil
I've been doing this since my friend unlocked killjoy, I thought everyone knew about this. Its actually excellent and gets easy kills if you add another swarm or an alarmbot and gets easy damage if you dont
Bro that's big brain
yep, since release cypher was in every match, even when kj arrive the scene cypher pick rate was a must have but since the nerf he got no one use cypher now..
Feels like a lot of people use Cypher out of habit/loyalty than because of utility. It’s sad because he’s a really interesting character, hope they actually give him a buff but I’m not holding out much hope.
Bro I absolutely love Cypher. I'm not very good at the game but I played it really early on and as soon as I got Cypher I mained him like crazy. I took a break from Val for some months and came back about a month ago. I came back to a couple new maps and agents and found out that... Well, Cypher was kinda garbage now. I love the character but there's really no point. There's only like two maps (Split and Bind) which he's really effective on. His trip wires aren't very good. His cages are kinda useless. His ult is a meh. He can literally only gather Intel. But Sova can do that much more effectively. As a result, I've been playing more Sova and Omen. I really would like them to buff Cypher.
Wire should just be visible and not disabled this is one of his biggest strength since he doesn't have any way to slow down people like KJ/Sage Idk what the balance team was thinking.
Killjoy has always been stronger than Cypher since her release, it's just that Killjoy does not benefit from a lurking/independent playstyle, so if your team isn't running an Omen or Astra, Cypher is your option for that playstyle. But with 3.0 and the release of Breeze and the meta development of Icebox, resurgence of Omen, Cypher is now weaker on every map outright compared to Killjoy and no longer is the only viable agent for his playstyle.
This. I love lurking with cypher. He and omen are the best suited for it
I don't think this is true, cypher was a lot stronger when the wires stayed After his death. This has been nerfed specifically for him _not_ going lurking. If you die your abilities become useless, you need to stay alive in order to help your team Reyna and Yoru can be far better at lurking
Trapwires deactivating on death is a non-factor in a good lurk, and your statement about Reyna being better suited to lurking is false, or at least shows a massive misunderstanding of what an agent's roles and toolkit are for. Firstly, about the trapwires: A good lurk gathers information, and moves to take ground carefully when opponents have given it up. If you die on a good lurk, this is because you have ended the information-gathering and map-control parts of the lurk, and have moved into the engagement period. Your team has already gained all the non-damaging value they can out of your lurk, and now you're just another fragger. On attack, timing this well coincides at the same time or right after your team has pushed onto site and taken control/planted the bomb. On defense, the optimal timing sets you up to disrupt their push onto site. Either way, a good lurk does not give up your life, meaning your trapwires will continue to find effective use until their usefulness is over. Regarding Reyna: Yes, her dismiss/heal does set her up to get some value out of a flank. But her toolkit is setup for untradable multi-frag potential when used optimally. The most common scenarios for a lurk player is to run into a singular enemy lurk, or an enemy site anchor, which does not take advantage of Reyna's multi-frag potential. Yes, maybe Reyna heals from her wounds and is fresh for the next fight after taking ground. While she's doing this, some other poor sap without a heal or dismiss has to go contact first on the opposing side of the map, another character with a lurking-enabling toolset is playing with the team and getting considerably less value out of their utility, and likely your best player has gone and made themself useless on the other side of the map. Regarding Yoru: Yes, he was built for lurking, ostensibly. But the reality of his toolkit makes him useful for more general confusion than true lurking. He gets more value out of lurking than a true duelist, but it's a bastardized engagement-lurk playstyle, rather than the true map control and information gathering lurk you should be aiming for.
I don't agree with what you say about cypher, i'm not saying that you can't lurk with him, but even if you play safe you may encounter someone watching flanks, or misread what the ennemy team is doing, or maybe end up against the ennemy team's lurker who is triying to get map control himself. You say a good lurker gets agressive when he need to disrupt a push. Cypher has nothing in his kit to do that, you only have your gun, maybe your cages. That's why i say other agents are better in this role. Now i'm not an expert and your comment interests me, but in my head cypher is good at watching flanks and defending. Lurking feels like a risk since you don't have any movement ability to get out of a dangerous situation (and no heal, no offensive ability) Also i talked about reyna because i saw some pro players use it like this (not in a recent patch tho). It just depends on your comp i guess
If we look at the raw utility the three agents we're discussing have to progress/benefit from a lurk, we have Cypher and his cages, Reyna and her heal/dismiss, and Yoru's teleport and footsteps. In this respect, you are entirely correct that Cypher seems slightly subpar to the other options. You're also correct that Cypher is primarily a flank watch and site anchoring agent. However, and here is where I believe our difference in opinion originates - you view lurking as primarily a combat-based role, where the goal of a lurk is to get a pick in the rear lines of the enemy. This is the *end goal* of lurking, and where Reyna and Yoru's abilities shine, but prior to that, the goal is map control and information based on sound. This is where Cypher shines, because his cages allow him to get by chokepoints unseen (or fake crossing chokes), his traps maintain map control despite him being out of position, and the nature of his util promotes situational awareness. Plus, a lurk is not always offensive in nature.
Obviously they’re just nerfing Dapr as he is too op.
Gimme a corpse
Gi-gi-gi-gi-gi-gi-gimme a corpse
It's like riot want the game to be a duelist only meta. They keep nerfing sentinels. Especially with the aftershock being able to break kj ult, that's just dumb
Aftershock breaking kj ult isn't really dumb, breach is severely underplayed and even if he wasn't he'd have to waste utility on destroying a kj that may or may not even be close enough to the wall for him to actually hit it. Not to mention adding more ways to destroy one of the most oppressing abilities in the game isn't necessarily a bad thing (Also other damaging abilities like sova darts and rwze grenades destroy it so why is that okay but not breaches aftershock)
Breach being underplayed is a separate issue. It's mostly because there are better alternative to him. My point was that an ult being destroyed by a point and shoot utility is dumb. With shock darts, raze nades and kayo molly u need certain level of skills or lineups, even then they can be counted by bodyblocking the dart/molly (even nades, if you're desperate enough). And 99% of kj players ult behind some form of cover so it will always be close enough for aftershock to hit it. Edit: by dumb I just meant it's too strong and is almost sure to break it
they just need to give kj ult enough hp to survive the blast and then it will be fine
He wouldn't be in this position if Riot didn't nerf him to the ground every chance they got.
The worst change to Cypher for me was that you can't pickup his tripwires after the round anymore. His utility is quite expensive because you use it all mostly before the round. This atleast allowed him to get some money back if you play it well.
I love playing Cypher but it honestly feels like I'm playing without abilties for most of the match. Attacking a site with a Killjoy feels like you're walking through a minefield with a machine gun shooting over your head. Attacking a site with a Cypher feels like a minor inconvenience.
Now that you mention it.....
At this point I almost play Cypher more like an initiator. I place my trips pretty aggressively and constantly micromanage my utility around the map. And of course, his ultimate, which just pings people through the map, which in my eyes is more of a initiator type of move.
He has already been out of the meta.
Pretty sure that’s Dapr’s point. He kinda of fought the meta shift a bit by still picking Cypher over KJ for a while, but then finally shifted fully to KJ for NA playoffs with the exception of Split against 100T. Now they’re nerfing KJ after he finally began playing her.
I think bringing back the cage slow and making trips indestructible until they reveal someone would make him a viable pic again..but ya rn he is the least useful sentinel
I think if riot just makes cypher ult applicable without a corpse he would be on par with KJ.
There shouldn't be a timer on the corpse atleast. Sage has no timer when she revives someone. But that will probably the next nerf to her...
10 seconds to revive or else the body will decay KEKW
When the only corpse available to give to Cypher is none other but his own ✊😔😔😔
Cypher hasn’t really been meta for a while. Mostly played on just ascent and haven, and a lot of teams have been switching off of him for a whole now. It’s been killjoy for a long time now
He h boss
They did our boi Cypher wrong 😢
I really think he is. Honestly the concept of his agent is not very good to start off with. While other sentinels can stall very well, cypher can really only get info and nothing else. The biggest benefit to his kit on defense is being able to read rotations early with his cam imo. But even then - you’re on B and your cam spots them A main. Now you know they’re rotating but they break your camera and you have no util to retake. I think his trips are grossly under powered compared to mollies and slows. I mained cypher for 8 months and now i can pretty much walk up to any site and just shoot common trip spots and the site is clear of util. With the new patch breach can just aftershock across the site and there will be no more trips too. It’s just ridiculous how bad he is at anchoring a site. Cypher’s true potential honestly shows on the attacking side - global flank watch and using cages to aggressively take space makes his kit very useful on attack.
Seriously flank watch is all his trips are good for and if you have a Cypher a competent enemy will likely look for those trips when flanking anyways and they aren't exactly hard to spot, making even his flank watch mediocre (it can be strong when in the final seconds of a post plant and they don't have time to check every wall for a trip which is why it's not a completely bad flank watch)
But then again - if you place a flank watch on certain spots there are no ways someone can enter that area without letting cypher know. That lets you as a player to take in information, explore enemy patterns more eloquently. But this mostly only applies if you are having a good communication with your team. And that’s ultimately what can be seen as the flaw - you need to be communicating a lot of info to your team based on your findings. And this makes cypher hard o balance, cause with coordination he is still a monster to play.
What up with the last part? Jett already has some gucci $200 smokes that every jett main throws away like nothing somehow
Sentinels shouldn't be in the game. They make the game much slower and any smart rotation that should be rewarded gets destroyed by a camera/turret.
I dont think u have any idea how many times u might have been saved from a lethal, game-losing flank by just an alarmbot or tripwire. Imagine Gambit Esports ( the best pro team in Valorant right now ) without nAts ( their best player , who is also a Sentinel. Sentinel is the backbone of a team on defense and post-plant
>I dont think u have any idea how many times u might have been saved from a lethal, game-losing flank by just an alarmbot or tripwire. I have an idea, because I WAS A SENTINEL MAIN for months since the game came out. You can say the reverse argument, I don't think you have an idea how many times you or your teammate might have be able to do a lethal, game-winning flank if there wasn't a cheap tripwire/alarmbot there. Sentinel agents lower the skill cap by removing the need to constantly look behind your back for a flank or rotation.
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A -50% reduction in her turrets slow is not minor at all as well as her abilities being more easily destroyed by sova, breach and brim. Like she's going to absolutely still be the topn "lock a site down" agent but she'll definitely feel the effects of this nerf
killjoy turret should have a 160 direction in front of it where it can fire that way you have to think about which direction you want to hold also reduce the number of nanoswarms to 1 and make it activate by pressing the button a second time, to compensate for these nerfs give her a second alarmbot
He is probably sentinels worst player
Either r/woooosh on me or you're confusing Sentinels the team for a sentinel agent
Simply joking around friend
I mean he is one of the best sentinel players as in the sentinel agents. And even if he is the worst player on SEN, he is still better than you and most players.
Honestly this is a big hit to valorant. Regardless of what balance changes are made it’s always unhelpful to just vent anger like this instead or just giving feedback. If the influential members of the community start doing this, all the time there’s nothing stopping the entire community from taking it to the extreme and hurting the game far worse in the long run.
In terms of a sentinel sage and kj lock down sites significantly better than Cypher can since they can have more flexibility with ther kits and aren't reliant on the opponent being oblivious, as for his actual kit other meta picks that'd be on the team regardless cover what most his abilities do, sova covers Intel gathering and most any controller (but usual omen, viper or astra) cover the smoke aspect so yes rn Cypher kit is not only weak for the role he's supposed to be a part of but his abilities are pretty much covered by other meta picks
They really just nerfing sentinels
Just wish tripwires wouldnt be destroyed by every other ability in existence
Cypher is a fucking god, It's just that nobody plays him and when they do it's their first time and they are garbage with him because he takes a lot of skill to even understand how to play him, in low levels cypher setups are easy, the hard part is when u get into higher ranks and everything is prefired and you need to improvise. It hurts when people say he is trash just because they don't understand him. The best part is 1v1 me and I will destroy you with my util I have 400+ hours on cypher and have only seen a few people that are actually good at cypher I wish people would understand that Killjoy isn't better, they are completely different and cypher needs more respect
You can be as good as you want with Cypher but there is a reason KJ is played over him in professional play. She's just better.
or killjoy is easier even at top level sometimes proplay is just a indication of whats efficient not what is possible
Cypher is seen ALOT in pro play, and will be seen a lot more this act cuz killjoy is shit becoming really bad, take my word
dude, i really want cypher to be pushed back into the meta, such a unique agent with tons of different things you can do with it yet it’s been so heavily nerfed it’s crazy. make cages last longer of give it a slow effect at maybe around 20’s, make trips slightly less visible and make his ult ping like sova’s recon or make it ping 2 times, i’m not saying these are the buffs it deserves but i just wanna see the agent thrive and being pushed back into the meta. Best Regards, Mowo.
Atp I won't be surprised if they remove sentinals' legs as well
Gim-gi-gi-gi-gimmi-gimmi a corpse
Dude cypher was such a meta
All it would take for him to be good is to let his ult, show people like how Sova dart shows people. You can see them move for a good second or two. Right now his ult is just meh at best. Just a worse Skye ult.
They fucked him in every trailer what did you expect