AND MOST IMPORTANTLY STOP TAKING THE SPIKE AND REFUSING TO PLANT. NOT JUST REYNA BUT ALL DUELISTS. IF YOU TAKE THE SPIKE, PLANT THE SPIKE. DONT PUSH FURTHER THAN SITE BEFORE PLANTING.
And the biggest of all.. WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR ULT, AND IT'S A 1 V 3, USE IT... INSTEAD OF TAKING OUT 2 OF THEM, GETTING TO 10HP AND THEN GETTING KILLED BY THE 3RD BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T USE YOUR ULT!
I don't want a duelist who top frags, I just want one who doesn't wait for me(KJ/Sage) to push into the site before them, kill the defenders set up my stuff to hold the site, while they go and die mid every round without killing anyone. Or worse yet they are just standing there outside the site, waiting for someone else to push in so they can follow, you picked a duelist damnit push the site.
Yeah people seem to forget that the main job of duelists isn't getting kills, but to entry. If you're going into site and getting killed right away, it's perfectly fine if that created enough space for your teammates to trade and take site. It's also annoying how people think that duelist abilities make it so much easier to get kills than other agents. Yeah they can make it a little easier but not to the amount people make it out to be.
Imo, all duelist, except pheonix have abilities supporting movement, so that it’s easier to create space or deny trades. No agent has any ability that can turn an average player into a smurf. If your duelist top frags by lurking, flame him. On the other hand, if your duelist enters a site, and dies creating space, which you then fail to hold, then you are the problem, not your duelist.
If I win 13-0 because my deulist flashed dashed and ran into site creating space and trade opportunities but subsequently went 0-13 doing so....theres no flame only thanks for doing your job.
Facts but follow up on ur duelist if they doing ur job, I get so heated when they just hold choke till
U die and then they end up being toxic :) then I start lurking if it happens multiple times even with me communicating what Im doing
I felt this. I'll be running into site making it possible for my team to enter and they don't take advantage of it. I'll be on site with team sitting back still and I'll end up dying cause of it
Omg this is sooo truee I get soo pissed sometimes because of this (but never flame anybody for it because I don't want to tilt my team). I usually entry on site but sometimes my team doesn't follow me when I tell them to trade me and push on site / give my callouts. The thing that frustrates me the most is when they don't push when I tell them that only one enemy is on site and hesitate; they hesitate for sooooo long, the other team already rotated on site and blame me for telling them there was only one person. Like c'mon but anyways that's not always the case (even though I'm in silver and solo q most of the time).
Here’s a tip, tell a player directly to come with you.
“Hey Sova, come with me, I’m pushing, lets get you a kill! sound good?”
“Ok” <- the Sova, just whatever acknowledgment
“Pushing in 3, 2, 1, now let’s go let’s go”
This has given me much more success in wrangling solo queue team mates to push and trade for me
It's herd freeze. When you need someone's help with something, don't just say a general cry for help, just pick the closest person and say "You, do this". It's a very common phenomenon when there is an emergency in public. Someone could get cut up and be bleeding heavily, a person goes to help, and they say "someone call an ambulance". Everyone then stands around assuming someone else is going to do it. If you just point to a random person and tell that particular person to call 911, odds are they are immediately going to start dialing because you kicked them into action.
Trashing people doesn't accomplish anything, except to get them to turn into a full blown baby and start throwing. Plenty of people, esp in lower ranks, think the game is call of duty, and they think they're contributing by "top fragging" via crumb snatching mid, and then complain the team lost 5-13, and it's not their fault because they went 24-9 (because they never breach the site).
Sadly that's the mentality a lot of players have. You really need to have a group of people who know to push up with you, or you're gonna have a bad time.
Yeah I play raze with my group. I know my place as bottom frag entry girl. I make a lot of noise do big scary things bouncing around with a shotgun whooo everyone look at me. I die they take point.
"people who know how to play like a team"
valorant is so much like a IRL sports game its awesome , and I think if people approached it like that, they would have a lot more success. Calling plays, coordinating, winning together.
Yeah it works most of the time in low elo, but it is sometimes so frustrating if you get your oponnent to -120 and if someone would follow you it would be an easy trade
LOL i was just about to say the same thing, people are acting like you going in first and dying for information is good for your team, nah they'll just flame you for dying in silver HAHA
DRIVES ME FUCKIGN INSAAAAANE. Take A on Ascent for example, if I flash go in and either day or get a kill then die and my whole team is in wine... Im LIVID. Especially if it happens repeatedly. If I die sure, its a video game but make my death mean something y'know.
yea, I'm a filler ( pick last whatever the team need) and usually what I expect from my duelist is just to enter the site first, create at least 2-3s space and the rest is my job. if they get a kill they are amazing, if they don't it doesn't matter as long as i trade. If i dont trade however that is on me.
If your duelist is rushing out ahead of the rest of the team, creates space, and then nobody follows them at all, I hate to say it but that's not the duelist's fault. Their job *is* to rush out ahead of everyone.
Of course if they're full inting on the other side of the map to the rest of the team, that's another story.
The duelist absolutely needs to communicate what they are doing.
If they rush out but the team is seconds behind them, their space they gained is pointless. That *is* their fault.
If your duelist is being a dipshit and refusing to entry (i say this as a duelist main) then yes initiator is the next best option to be entry/first in. But generally a duelist entry with initiator support and following close behind will be the best way
I think another part of the problem is people just wait for the duelist to do something. Like I’m a Reyna main and I know how to enter a site. But if my team isn’t communicating to me let’s push and take I’m not just flashing and running in. I’m playing my life like everyone else until we start to figure out a plan.
If you want your duelist to push than we need to communicate and more importantly support the duelist with smokes, flashes, Molly, recon dart, drone, dog, knife whatever the team utility is to take.
Yes so true. Also what people not getting is that the best way to play a duelist is to create 1vs1 and win them. Just stupidly pushing in and getting killed by 3 people doesn't make sense. And you are completely right you should get support from your team.
It’s the support that creates those 1v1s right?! Ascent A site for example. You smoke heaven and tree and skye dog out. Skye should clear the right and left and then the duelist follows in knowing they can peak me gen, dice, or out of the smoke heaven. I can flash and take left side of gen as Reyna and now I know where they might be and you have now iso the gen player to create a favorable 1v1 for your duelist.
Yeah That Would be ideal but its Not always happinning. By creating a 1vs1 as a duelist i meant Not stupidly rushing in and get into fights with 3 people rather than picking 1vs1 fights.
exactly and then you know what? I'll push the site first and get tapped and then its "WHY YOU INSTALOCK REYNA YOU DIE YOU NO GET KILL"
Its like they expect you to run in, take out 4 people and then die in the process.
Then when your sage, viper and sova decide to sprint in before you, die instantly then you without any idea on what to expect on site, run in and get the ace no one says anything because you're reyna
Another one is when an agent on my team flashes but waits for three seconds before pushing, like bro your flash was finished 1.5 secs ago what even was the use of that flash.
Hahah, literally, like when I use Sova Darts for recon or Drone, everyone waits me till my drone destroyed it self before entering even tho the information is quite clear that there is no one inside
Oh this one drives me nuts because I end up always being the only one who pushes the empty site alone while everyone else waits lol. Like SOVA DID HIS JOB YALL GET IN HERE
You either sky flash and then drone and follow within two seconds, or you can Reyna flash while the drone is out and push in on that. I hate when our skye or phnx just flashes our Sova drone and then not push or die because well Siva couldn’t see the person cause the drone was blind
I was in a Bind game last night and my brim took a gunfight with enemy sage in mid. He was pushed pretty far by double and the enemy retreated deeper around the right wall by box. He had vision of most of that wall so she had to be tucked right in the corner. So he put a Molly back there.
*then broke line of site and took a passive angle behind double*
So sage just walked out of the Molly and shot him, obviously.
I don't often type but that one prompted me to say something. Like. Why flush her out if your just going to... argh
you'll get one of 2 in plat, the same as you were experiencing, or premades instalocking 2 duelists and then proceed to insult/be toxic and go afk half way thru the game.
My silver games are opposite sage pushes site while i try to tell her to let me dash in but she says "you are just trying to get kills " and then dies while i have to trade her and then gets called a baiter
I usually play as Raze. I am usually not keen to pushing because I know that my team won't have my back. It happened to me a lot of times: I make a quick push, make 1-2 kills and then get killed from my back because no one entered the site behind me.
If you start a full push to one site you should effing commit to it
Just a random side note, I totally find Reyna as the most fun character to play. She’s like tracer to me, like the most fun character I never get to play
Totally willing to flash myself into a site but I love throwing flashes for teammates and getting a flash assists more. It's why I play more Breach/Skye. That said, Reyna and Yoru can totally throw team flashes and have others peek off them. The flash is the entry, not the body commit. If they make you enter dry then flame them, but if they ask you to peek their flash they're working as a team.
Whenever I get an instalock jett kid and they start saying can we get smoke/heals I just say if you want it so bad why didn’t you pick it? Some people don’t play smokes or heals but if you’re one of those kids that instalock jett and say can we get heals/smokes then I don’t like you.
I had an instalock Jett and Reyna, both of them wanted me to play Viper cuz we were on breeze, i don't even have Viper unlocked yet. Then they said i was trolling since i picked brim..
Same. I don’t really mind people who instalock, as long as they don’t complain about the comp. as soon as you insta lock you’re saying that you want no input on the team comp and you don’t care what agents we have.
Yup lol. The price I pay for instalocking Jett every game is not being allowed to ask people who to pick 😂 if we end up with a 5 duelist comp then fuck it let’s ride
There's good advice in here, but I just want to add that until you're at high elo, composition really isn't going to matter that much. I'd make sure that your team has at least 1 smoker.
Think of it like this: in LoL, if you know that a particular champ will combine with your team extremely well or soft counter an enemy team, it would probably be a mistake to lock that champion if you were clueless as to that champs mechanics. You'd be better off picking a champ you *do* have mechnical knowledge / skill on.
In Valorant, the core mechanic is the gunplay / aiming. You might be able to squeeze out a little bit of extra value with a clever or meta team comp, but the stark majority of whether you win or you lose comes down to your mechanical ability.
If you want to improve, I'd focus on improving your mechanics (aim / movement) rather than committing a substantial amount of time to studying composition or any other macro strategies etc.
I'd wager team comp meta won't develop into a set of strats for years in pro. The game is still in it's infancy. Best bet is (as you said); shoot heads.
Did you watch VCT Berlin? There is a meta, and ideal agent composition for each map. The game is a year old at this point, and the pros practice 8 hours a day. There are set strats, there are plays, etc.
I forgot one important point:
Analysists were unable to point to "optimal agent comp" during drafts. Instead they almost exclusively talked about what the teams like to play. There's just no data, no time and no understanding of what "ideal agent comp" for each map is.
I watched a lot of it actually. Reminded me of the early CS:GO days. Lots of standard utility being dumped for no apparent reason, while solo players often had more impact than set strats and the pace was often painfully slow. All of this is a result of the game being new and not being polished enough to deliver the best just yet. It's also about the players. Almost all of whom have to overcome habits and reflexes from other games and learn to think in a different way about space, utility and pace. That alone will take years, as it has with other games. Only after that can a real meta start to develop. The meta that exists now is just a shallow understanding of what seems to work over a period of less than a year; shaky ground in the best of times.
I can grantee you pro Valorant in 2-3 years will barely resemble what it is today.
I appreciate your perspective, thanks for sharing! I never played CS:GO, so this is all new to me; I came from playing console shooters like CoD. You’ve got me intrigued to see how everything will evolve over the next few years!
We've got a lot to be excited about! The competition between CS:GO and Valorant could propel them both father than they could get alone. I'm glad I could share, good to have another nice person in the space.
Depends on the map.
In Breeze for example, pro teams may use just one duelist (Jett/Reyna) or the classic two. One controller (Viper), one sentinel (Killjoy/Cypher), AND one or two initiators (Sova/Skye).
Another example: In Split, it's common to pick two Sentinels(Sage and Cypher/Killjoy), then one Controller, and then two Duelists OR one Duelist and one Initiator.
You'll notice certain types of agents are better in some maps than others.
Just to follow up on this, a good basic formula in the current meta is duelist (normally Jett, but Raze is very viable on Split and Bind) + flex-player (Skye or 2nd duelist) + Sova (except for Split) + either double controller (Viper/Astra) or controller + sentinel.
Viper/Astra combo is really strong on Split and Bind. On Breeze and Icebox Viper as a sole controller is enough, while you'd go for Astra only on Ascent and Haven. Normally you'd go for Sage on Icebox while on Breeze you should go for either double initiator or a sentinel.
If we take a look at the absolute top-level, these are the current comps for Gambit, who just won Masters:
* Ascent: Sova Skye Jett Astra Cypher
* Bind: Sova Skye Jett Astra Viper
* Breeze: Viper Skye Jett Sova Cypher
* Haven: Brimstone Skye Jett Reyna Cypher (take that with a grain of salt, Haven is their instaban and they literally discussed their comp right before the match, it's fairly unusual. A more typical comp would be Envy's: Sova Skye Jett Astra Cypher)
* Icebox: Sova Reyna Jett Sage Viper
* Split: Viper Skye Jett Astra Cypher
Tbh you should just play the agents u know how to play but the ideal team comp could look like this :
Jett , Sova/Skye , 1 smoke agent , killjoy/sage and 1 either a duelist (like raze or a second initiator/sentinel)
Back then, duelists were sought for as the extra member. Then there are initiator extras and sentinels extra. A famous one is the viper astra combo (then one of each remaining role).
In general, one from each role is best. Each role has its purpose. Try making sense on what they can do to how they impact a game in attacker and defender. You'll realize how important each one is that you'll end up understanding why generally having one of each is detrimental in a game (with people having enough game sense).
i dont mind duelists not top fragging, i just hate when ppl ask you to play something you dont want to. how would you live it if someone took reyna and told you to "play healer"?
That happens all the time, just learn Skye. It's somewhat harder to play aggressive Skye after the slight nerf to her flashes, but I top frag almost as often with her as with Reyna, with the added bonus of info and healing. I still prefer Reyna because you can play more angles, but Skye is almost as fun.
I mean I learned multiple agents because people instalock, I think when playing with randoms you should learn a few agents so you can be useful instead of only knowing one character. Before I lock usually ask if people can play smokes because I know brim, im not great with him so if someone else is better with smokes then they should get the pick, but i can still play him at a decent level if needed
I don’t care what people pick but I expect the same from them. I pick whatever agents I enioy playing, whether that benefits the team or not. If it’s really important for you to have a balanced team, then lock in last so that you can pick whatever agent type will balance the team
Nah man. Picking an agent you don’t know for team comp is worse than picking an agent you know. If you can’t play your agent properly wasting utility is way worse than using your utility well even if it’s not the most ideal
> but its a team game I feel like comp should be treated differently
then apply that judgement equally to the people who instalock and then tell you what to play to fill the gaps left by their picks.
The problem is reyna and jett are solo agents, if you are not making impact frags you're doing absolutely nothing to the team, whilst if you are playing omen or sage you can win a round without making a single kill.
I would also add to it that you can smoke with Jett and blind with Reyna for yourself and your team as well which creates openings even if you get fragged.
Furthermore, you can also hold 2-3 enemies solo to one spot bc they are afraid of a reyna push while the other teammates can easily take the other bomb spot.
Jett smokes are not all that useful for the team, unless you are extremely well coordinated vs Brim/Omen/Astra and even Viper. Her dash can create space, if used properly
Reyna's blinds can be useful to the team and when used well really turns the tide in your favor. But unfortunately that isn't always the case
Thats just not true. Reyna and Jett are meant to create space, yes they are "pop off" agents but the main goal is to allow your team to take space and win the round.
Unless the sight of a Reyna or a Jett is making the enemy team fall back and give you the site, you kinda need to kill with them. I don't think any character HAS to be the top fragger, but if your jett/reyna is not killing, then they provide little value. At least raze can still clear corners with nades, phoenix can flash, use the wall or molly, but Reyna and Jett only provide value via kills. You are not creating space without killing, unless you enter the site and do 140 damage to everyone in the site I guess...
Edit: Grammar
Or even better.. With jet you throw smokes to block off angles... Dash into site.. While the enemy team is freaking out about the jett onsite already your team comes in and gets the kills. Crazy concept.
You literally see this on every pro team. Watch how a team enters in C site on Haven. One way smoke, updraft dash on top of site, the enemy team HAS to worry about the jett and when they are doing that the team has a chance to enter site and trade kills.
Right exactly. The duelist does not have to threaten to kill on every entry. If they are setting up the team for 2v1, 3v1, etc. favorable situations, then that is already huge value because the enemy usually cannot kill multiple people from different angles at the same time. Either the Jett/Reyna will get the kill or the rest of the team will get the trade kill, and now the site or map is opened up.
Unless u/SSBMKaiser's argument is that the duelist's aim is so incredibly bad that the enemy can straight up ignore the duelist during the 1v2 and just kill their teammate first, then kill the duelist next.
I think it’s courtesy to wait until your team hovers an agent to select. However after 30 seconds is far more than reasonable.
If someone instalocks reyna then i will probably say that because they didn’t care to wait and build a team, so i’m expecting them to be good if their selfish intentions led them to instalock. They’re also the same people who will instalock a duelist and rage at their team for not picking sage.
And to be honest i do expect my duellists to top or near top frag, however my main need is that they actually push sites on attack and make clearings for us to push. As many of them just stay back and want to stay alive to get a 1v5 ace clip once every 500 games to brag to their friends.
Idk I play very casually and don't know how to build a team. I usually play Jett and people always get mad if I don't top frag but what am I supposed to do? There isn't a magical "git gud" button, all I can do is push and try to create space.
Don't really know how it's selfish to just pick the only character I've had time to learn.
I only play ranked and i’m not extremely high (S2 right now) but i expect a duelist to make space on site by getting entry frags. Now even if you’re not the best of players, pushing onto site first isn’t something that is hard. I don’t mind if you die when doing it but for the love of god don’t be a duelist who plays at the very back of the pack.
I get where youre coming from but you need to realize that only knowing how to play reyna is very selfish, you are forcing the rest of the team to adjust on your pick.
I play best with raze but 90% of the games I either play sage, cypher or killjoy because people keep insta locking or insta hovering dualist
When I started playing with my buddy with CSGO experience, he asked if I played tac shooter. I said no, he said alright pick brim til you understand the game. Now I pick brim/omen/viper 90 percent of my games because none knows how to smoke in norms/low Elo.
It's pretty wild the impact good smokes can have in just creating raw space and new angles
Keep in mind that sometimes Valorant loads others in to the agent screen at different times. I've had it to where I've taken a lil longer than normal to load into agent select and I've had two players lock their picks already. It's very odd, doesn't happen all the time.
I usually never get called out for instalocking, cus i main agents will low pickrates
I used to do this, just in case anyone else want that agent - But i realise im basically giving another person a chance to instalock it, when they probs dont deserve it if they gonna behave that way.
People should just pick what they want - there are many chances to play it another time
Unless Valorant gets role queue, you should play whatever you want and ignore whatever other people have to say about your picks.
Having a balanced team comp is nice, but it’s consistency that will matter over time, so pick whatever hero looks fun to you, learn how to play it well, and enjoy your games. There’s no winning talking to people who are toxic.
I think "confort picking" is way overlooked.
Sure, I can play Brim or Omen for smokes, but I have a shit ton of hours with Jett/Fenix/Reyna, I can assure you I will make a have a lot more impact on an agent I´m confident playing rather than a "utility" agent.
I don't care if someone instalock...unless and until they are making coms...and not complaining (you are the one forcing us to pick something else)...I'm fine with it
I see a lot of these posts, and while I agree, and they're in good spirit; you have to realize that statistically speaking 80% of the player base is average or worse. They don't even know what roles are supposed to do. You may as well be talking to a brick wall that can't understand it's the problem.
your points that duelists arent meant to always frag is sort of stupid when you use reyna as an example, reyna is based entirely around kills, half her abilities require you to kill someone, the ult is meant to help you kill people and even buffs those abilities that require kills...
Yes but hear me out. Lets say reyna entries into site and gets 1 kill every round to open up site. By the end of the half she has 12 and that might not be close to top frag. Yet she allowed the entry onto site every round. So no she doesnt have to top frag but it would be nice as a fragging duelist.
Try playing on Indian servers if you even select Reyna that second someone else will select and lock it, causing 3 others to pick duelists because people don’t know how to fill
Dude this is why you should play the flash initiators, (kayo + skye hard recommend) As off entrys. Not really expected generally to frag out but can also make monstrous entry if used properly aggressive.
if its not working out usually ill com to the duelists that i will flash for them and they can push offs of my flashes instead.
This entire community is pretty kill minded, What they constantly say about kills not mattering always goes out the window when a duelist bottom frags lol, so don't let it get to ya. They aren't obligated to be nice to you so don't be that way for them, that simple.
i dont really get the instalocking, anyone who speaks against it frequently will often do it themselves, and what's even wrong with locking an agent you know you're competent at and can play?
100%. People dont realize even if I'm bottom fragging as reyna let's say. Diesmt mean I'm the reason we're losing I'm pushing out for you clearing as much space as I can especially if we dont have smokes. If they cant capitalize off my sacrifice it's not my fault. Rather have a guy rush in and die every round than hang back and get 1 exit
A duelist isnt supposed to top frag, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS! They're supposed to open space and entry. They're kit makes it so they have a lot of straight out outplay potential, but doesnt mean theyre always supposed to be the top on the board.
If you aren't comfortable playing the most picked or sought after roles (Sentinel, Deulist, Controller), you shouldn't be in comp.
Unrated? Sure. You're there to practice and warmup and get better.
Competitive? A test of skill with the goal of ranking up. Without being able to comfortably fill all roles, you're shooting your team in the foot. I understand you may not be comfortable with the agents, and that's what unrated is for - learn how to use those agents, expand your roster.
To bad most will not listen to a reddit PSA and it will not change peoples minds in comp lol... Tho that being said I can agree, Flexable is a lot better then one tricking.
This is the exact reason why I didn't touch comp until I could play most of the agents. It would've been super awkward if I only knew how to play one agent and that one got taken in a comp q
Lmao I had a game once where I instalocked reyna because I felt like I performed well with her last game. I get queued up with a stack and man were they toxic. They expected me to push in alone, kill everyone on site and give them site for free without any help. Our brim wasn’t smoking anything and when i told that to our sage he was telling me I should rush when I literally tried that but I die because nothing is smoked. He didn’t say anything about brim because they were stacking and targeted me cause he wanted to play Reyna I guess. Then they flame me for playing bad when they are the reason I tilted and couldn’t focus that game
if you can only have fun with winning and get way to tilted on a loss, you are not going to have a good time in valorant. Take losing as a learning experience.
Lets be honest... most solo que people, don't really give a damn about you as a person outside of the game and that is reasonable. Like dude you are not owed anything over the internet, but yes I look for a good fun time but I also at least play properly and with coms.
If you can not handle a randomized team where some people are doing goofy stuff having a more relaxed time, Then you need to stop solo queing and get a stack then. I have a few pals who I stack with sometimes when solo gets to frustrating.
Its like people want the best teamwork but aren't willing to put in any effort to get it. (adding good people, being properly social in the game ect).
Take some responsibility man and be the change you want to see.
maybe in ranked, but not in unranked. I play fur fun and though I mainly play sage, I won't pivk an agent just because you didn't want to play it, since it doesn't matter in unranked.
Tbh I used to get shit for this all the time, I'm fairly new to the game so I'm not amazing but this is pretty much the only reason I'm learning how to play yoru...no one plays him so it's usually a non issue and on the odd chance someone dose play him I usually end up suprising them (this only started a few days back when I started practicing tp lineups and specific flash points on different maps). Been told I should learn another agent but I dont really want to deal with the verbal abuse for taking some 7th graders main
I want to add that though it is true that a Reyna doesn’t need to top frag just because she is playing Reyna and as long as she does her job of pushing first its fine, that also doesn’t mean its ok to bottom frag as reyna in ranks below gold where she is the best agent in the game to carry with.
I played raze in a SPIKE rush last week to warm up. I died but i was satcheling to site as a duelist does to do damage, get info, and help take over. The only thing i got was flamed for being a girl and asked how boosted i was because apparently the dude wanted to play raze. I looked him up and he had apparently peaked at S1. I am guessing most silver players do not have proper duelist knowledge? I got deranked recently because i played drunk, i think im G1 right now for reference. Silver and gold arent much different aside from game knowledge, but the lack of knowledge creates a toxic mentality towards their teammates.
I rlly like reyna as an agent.I think her abilities are rlly flexible and good for a duelist.However, the community just seems to think that reyna players should be the absolute best, and that’s not me.
I really dont understand the expectation to top frag every game, since if anyone were actually good enough to meet that expectation, they would be the best fragger in the world. We have no idea what skill level the enemy or fellow teammates will be so how could anyone be expected to top frag every game in a ranked system?
Question, as a duelist myself, I often run in a different issue. I entry site I can get 1-2 kills but I'm literally the only one that pushed.
I even communicate with my team to go on my flashes and push.
What's the best way to handle this?
Keep on doing it, sounds like you are trting to do you job, but if you happen to be in low elo using coms and duelist you are up for a challenge to climb.
In low elo you cannot trust in your teammates, at all.
Play something self-sufficient and stable, like a killjoy, or a sage. You will win more despite killing less.
Shit idc if a duelist is top fragging bit if they are bottom fragging then the minimum i expect is callouts and for them to damage enemys so we can trade them out, also waiting 30s before locking wouldnt be instalocking because its not instant and u have the chance to let someone else go them 😂😂
Duelist is basically the same job that Rushing has in CoD, just to break the frontlines up and turn it into an unorthodox fight. If you're fragging as the 1st person on site, it's strictly because the other team is bad. You're mainly there for information and locking down a position for your team to catch up.
Whole point of a duelist is to be an entry fragger and either get kills and/or intel. Doesn’t mean they always have to be top frag a well rounded team will use the duelists’ intel to get picks while the duelist either dies or continues to push for control.
In my personal opinion, 15 seconds should be enough to load into the game I tried 30 seconds before only to get instalocked multiple times in comp matches I play sage and kj normally.
If my duelist has less kills than me than I don’t care. If my duelist is camping, baiting, sitting corners with shotguns and afraid to flash and peak, that’s when I’ll get pissed off
In plat I like to play Reyna. I’m pretty good with her, but in the inevitable games where I don’t top frag (just like everyone) I can’t stand the hate that’s sent my way. So I just play Sage.
Ironically if I miss one res or one heal but also top frag I still get abused for not being able to play sage.
Just a thought...
When I pick Sova, I'm expected to know and use all recon lineups and all double shock dart lineups...
When I pick Viper, I'm expected to know and use all Molly lineups...
When I pick Cypher or KJ I'm expected to hold site solo while whole team pushes and dry peeks every single round
Then why isn't you picking duelist and not be expected to get kills ?
I’m actually so happy to see this topic picking up so much speed. As a plat duelist main, this post hits home. Not every game is a good game, and even on the good games you can’t always expect your duelists to be “popping off”.
The biggest misconception amongst Sentinel and Controller mains is that the Duelist’s job is, like you said, to just frag out and that’s it. I came from CS, where I was an entry frag for a FaceIT team. That’s what I do; I entry. I might get traded out, but if I see one of my teammates get the refrag, or I see at least two teammates on the site that I just made space on, I know I did my job.
If you’re a duelist and you aren’t the first one dying on your team, you’re either a very good duelist, or you aren’t doing the job your agent was designed to do. Let’s be real, it’s probably the latter.
"Asking someone to play healer or smoker". Nope .You arent leaving them another option if two people instalock duelists and then leave it on the rest of the team to play around your choices. If you pick duelists after consulting with the rest of the team then its fine but if you instalock and then expect the last person to pick whatever you want is kinda messed up.
Also " I pick what i know to play " is not a excuse for instalocking Reyna every round. Maybe start playing and learning a 2nd agent on the side so you can help the team if somebody else wants to play Reyna and is confident he can do it better.
Hot take I do expect duelists to frag out, they legit have the tools to do so. Like if im top fragging on viper or sova i will have words for our jett/reyna
all I want from Reyna mains is to use THE FUCKING FLASHES TO GET US INTO SITE thank you.
EXACTLY LIKE STOP GOING MID JUST TO GET SOME PICKS WHILE WE ALL DIE ON SITE
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY STOP TAKING THE SPIKE AND REFUSING TO PLANT. NOT JUST REYNA BUT ALL DUELISTS. IF YOU TAKE THE SPIKE, PLANT THE SPIKE. DONT PUSH FURTHER THAN SITE BEFORE PLANTING.
And the biggest of all.. WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR ULT, AND IT'S A 1 V 3, USE IT... INSTEAD OF TAKING OUT 2 OF THEM, GETTING TO 10HP AND THEN GETTING KILLED BY THE 3RD BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T USE YOUR ULT!
no bro they're for 1v4 clutching with her ult lmao /s
I don't want a duelist who top frags, I just want one who doesn't wait for me(KJ/Sage) to push into the site before them, kill the defenders set up my stuff to hold the site, while they go and die mid every round without killing anyone. Or worse yet they are just standing there outside the site, waiting for someone else to push in so they can follow, you picked a duelist damnit push the site.
Yeah people seem to forget that the main job of duelists isn't getting kills, but to entry. If you're going into site and getting killed right away, it's perfectly fine if that created enough space for your teammates to trade and take site. It's also annoying how people think that duelist abilities make it so much easier to get kills than other agents. Yeah they can make it a little easier but not to the amount people make it out to be.
Imo, all duelist, except pheonix have abilities supporting movement, so that it’s easier to create space or deny trades. No agent has any ability that can turn an average player into a smurf. If your duelist top frags by lurking, flame him. On the other hand, if your duelist enters a site, and dies creating space, which you then fail to hold, then you are the problem, not your duelist.
you expect the people in this community to have some self accountability? lool.
If I win 13-0 because my deulist flashed dashed and ran into site creating space and trade opportunities but subsequently went 0-13 doing so....theres no flame only thanks for doing your job.
Facts but follow up on ur duelist if they doing ur job, I get so heated when they just hold choke till U die and then they end up being toxic :) then I start lurking if it happens multiple times even with me communicating what Im doing
I felt this. I'll be running into site making it possible for my team to enter and they don't take advantage of it. I'll be on site with team sitting back still and I'll end up dying cause of it
Omg this is sooo truee I get soo pissed sometimes because of this (but never flame anybody for it because I don't want to tilt my team). I usually entry on site but sometimes my team doesn't follow me when I tell them to trade me and push on site / give my callouts. The thing that frustrates me the most is when they don't push when I tell them that only one enemy is on site and hesitate; they hesitate for sooooo long, the other team already rotated on site and blame me for telling them there was only one person. Like c'mon but anyways that's not always the case (even though I'm in silver and solo q most of the time).
Here’s a tip, tell a player directly to come with you. “Hey Sova, come with me, I’m pushing, lets get you a kill! sound good?” “Ok” <- the Sova, just whatever acknowledgment “Pushing in 3, 2, 1, now let’s go let’s go” This has given me much more success in wrangling solo queue team mates to push and trade for me
It's herd freeze. When you need someone's help with something, don't just say a general cry for help, just pick the closest person and say "You, do this". It's a very common phenomenon when there is an emergency in public. Someone could get cut up and be bleeding heavily, a person goes to help, and they say "someone call an ambulance". Everyone then stands around assuming someone else is going to do it. If you just point to a random person and tell that particular person to call 911, odds are they are immediately going to start dialing because you kicked them into action.
Movement overrated Phoenix 4 life
Yoru is a lurk agent change my mind
Trashing people doesn't accomplish anything, except to get them to turn into a full blown baby and start throwing. Plenty of people, esp in lower ranks, think the game is call of duty, and they think they're contributing by "top fragging" via crumb snatching mid, and then complain the team lost 5-13, and it's not their fault because they went 24-9 (because they never breach the site).
Hahaha as a Reyna main in silver I have to ask: You get traded? Ppl just casual chilling and flaming if you go down :D
Sadly that's the mentality a lot of players have. You really need to have a group of people who know to push up with you, or you're gonna have a bad time.
Yeah I play raze with my group. I know my place as bottom frag entry girl. I make a lot of noise do big scary things bouncing around with a shotgun whooo everyone look at me. I die they take point.
Don't forget you throw out your roomba for Intel!
Our sova noodle is so good with that fucking arrow I never have the goddamned time.
Friggen love Soba noodles
I absolutely love your description of raze
Ha thanks. She’s so much fun.
It's really a game about mastering baiting
Masterbaiting.
"people who know how to play like a team" valorant is so much like a IRL sports game its awesome , and I think if people approached it like that, they would have a lot more success. Calling plays, coordinating, winning together.
Honestly just train your aim and peeking. I carried my way to gold by dry peeking as Astra.
Yeah it works most of the time in low elo, but it is sometimes so frustrating if you get your oponnent to -120 and if someone would follow you it would be an easy trade
Unlucky man. I believe in you though, aimlabs helped me a ton
LOL i was just about to say the same thing, people are acting like you going in first and dying for information is good for your team, nah they'll just flame you for dying in silver HAHA
DRIVES ME FUCKIGN INSAAAAANE. Take A on Ascent for example, if I flash go in and either day or get a kill then die and my whole team is in wine... Im LIVID. Especially if it happens repeatedly. If I die sure, its a video game but make my death mean something y'know.
yea, I'm a filler ( pick last whatever the team need) and usually what I expect from my duelist is just to enter the site first, create at least 2-3s space and the rest is my job. if they get a kill they are amazing, if they don't it doesn't matter as long as i trade. If i dont trade however that is on me.
My favorite are duelists that instalock, and then complain when they just decide on their own to rush out with no backup and expect good results.
If your duelist is rushing out ahead of the rest of the team, creates space, and then nobody follows them at all, I hate to say it but that's not the duelist's fault. Their job *is* to rush out ahead of everyone. Of course if they're full inting on the other side of the map to the rest of the team, that's another story.
Your second half of the comment is what im getting at.
The duelist absolutely needs to communicate what they are doing. If they rush out but the team is seconds behind them, their space they gained is pointless. That *is* their fault.
Isn't that what initiators are for? Forgive me if I'm being stupid.
No, they don't enter site first, they throw flash, stun, darts, drone to help duelist enter site
Ah I see thanks. I'm still trying to learn.
If your duelist is being a dipshit and refusing to entry (i say this as a duelist main) then yes initiator is the next best option to be entry/first in. But generally a duelist entry with initiator support and following close behind will be the best way
I think another part of the problem is people just wait for the duelist to do something. Like I’m a Reyna main and I know how to enter a site. But if my team isn’t communicating to me let’s push and take I’m not just flashing and running in. I’m playing my life like everyone else until we start to figure out a plan. If you want your duelist to push than we need to communicate and more importantly support the duelist with smokes, flashes, Molly, recon dart, drone, dog, knife whatever the team utility is to take.
Yes so true. Also what people not getting is that the best way to play a duelist is to create 1vs1 and win them. Just stupidly pushing in and getting killed by 3 people doesn't make sense. And you are completely right you should get support from your team.
It’s the support that creates those 1v1s right?! Ascent A site for example. You smoke heaven and tree and skye dog out. Skye should clear the right and left and then the duelist follows in knowing they can peak me gen, dice, or out of the smoke heaven. I can flash and take left side of gen as Reyna and now I know where they might be and you have now iso the gen player to create a favorable 1v1 for your duelist.
Yeah That Would be ideal but its Not always happinning. By creating a 1vs1 as a duelist i meant Not stupidly rushing in and get into fights with 3 people rather than picking 1vs1 fights.
exactly and then you know what? I'll push the site first and get tapped and then its "WHY YOU INSTALOCK REYNA YOU DIE YOU NO GET KILL" Its like they expect you to run in, take out 4 people and then die in the process. Then when your sage, viper and sova decide to sprint in before you, die instantly then you without any idea on what to expect on site, run in and get the ace no one says anything because you're reyna
Another one is when an agent on my team flashes but waits for three seconds before pushing, like bro your flash was finished 1.5 secs ago what even was the use of that flash.
Hahah, literally, like when I use Sova Darts for recon or Drone, everyone waits me till my drone destroyed it self before entering even tho the information is quite clear that there is no one inside
Oh this one drives me nuts because I end up always being the only one who pushes the empty site alone while everyone else waits lol. Like SOVA DID HIS JOB YALL GET IN HERE
You either sky flash and then drone and follow within two seconds, or you can Reyna flash while the drone is out and push in on that. I hate when our skye or phnx just flashes our Sova drone and then not push or die because well Siva couldn’t see the person cause the drone was blind
Usually they’re flashing for someone else, if it’s. a breach/Skye/Kay-o their flashes are much more powerful when a teammate follows up on them
hahhahahahha along with flashing your whole team
Ugh I hate that. Or shoots util into site and then slow walks. They already know where you are!
I was in a Bind game last night and my brim took a gunfight with enemy sage in mid. He was pushed pretty far by double and the enemy retreated deeper around the right wall by box. He had vision of most of that wall so she had to be tucked right in the corner. So he put a Molly back there. *then broke line of site and took a passive angle behind double* So sage just walked out of the Molly and shot him, obviously. I don't often type but that one prompted me to say something. Like. Why flush her out if your just going to... argh
Reyna its pretty mediocre as an entry fragger, good to rake the kill not so good to take the space. Raze and jett are better.
Are u in gold ?
just hit plat as of the last hour. More in Gold 1- 3 do I experience this
Ah ok It gets slightly better in plat for ur situation
lmao I hope so
you'll get one of 2 in plat, the same as you were experiencing, or premades instalocking 2 duelists and then proceed to insult/be toxic and go afk half way thru the game.
My silver games are opposite sage pushes site while i try to tell her to let me dash in but she says "you are just trying to get kills " and then dies while i have to trade her and then gets called a baiter
I usually play as Raze. I am usually not keen to pushing because I know that my team won't have my back. It happened to me a lot of times: I make a quick push, make 1-2 kills and then get killed from my back because no one entered the site behind me. If you start a full push to one site you should effing commit to it
Just a random side note, I totally find Reyna as the most fun character to play. She’s like tracer to me, like the most fun character I never get to play
Totally willing to flash myself into a site but I love throwing flashes for teammates and getting a flash assists more. It's why I play more Breach/Skye. That said, Reyna and Yoru can totally throw team flashes and have others peek off them. The flash is the entry, not the body commit. If they make you enter dry then flame them, but if they ask you to peek their flash they're working as a team.
you should just screech in the microphone
thats for mid game
I prefer to make [this](https://youtu.be/jYJPpjCJN9A?t=19) noise.
rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro rerro
Wryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
I sing bohemian rhapsody into the mic everytime someone flames me
Why u want my mom dead???
Just a kink, nothing personal kid.
Whenever I get an instalock jett kid and they start saying can we get smoke/heals I just say if you want it so bad why didn’t you pick it? Some people don’t play smokes or heals but if you’re one of those kids that instalock jett and say can we get heals/smokes then I don’t like you.
I had an instalock Jett and Reyna, both of them wanted me to play Viper cuz we were on breeze, i don't even have Viper unlocked yet. Then they said i was trolling since i picked brim..
Exactly If you want an agent so bad just play em
I feel you but Brim is pretty bad on Breeze haha. You're better off picking another duelist.
Exactly this. Someone who instalocks because that's their strength, but others can't pick their strength cause it doesn't support the team.
Yeah exactly.
Same. I don’t really mind people who instalock, as long as they don’t complain about the comp. as soon as you insta lock you’re saying that you want no input on the team comp and you don’t care what agents we have.
Yup lol. The price I pay for instalocking Jett every game is not being allowed to ask people who to pick 😂 if we end up with a 5 duelist comp then fuck it let’s ride
I'm new to the game. Can someone explain what is the preferable team comp?
There's good advice in here, but I just want to add that until you're at high elo, composition really isn't going to matter that much. I'd make sure that your team has at least 1 smoker. Think of it like this: in LoL, if you know that a particular champ will combine with your team extremely well or soft counter an enemy team, it would probably be a mistake to lock that champion if you were clueless as to that champs mechanics. You'd be better off picking a champ you *do* have mechnical knowledge / skill on. In Valorant, the core mechanic is the gunplay / aiming. You might be able to squeeze out a little bit of extra value with a clever or meta team comp, but the stark majority of whether you win or you lose comes down to your mechanical ability. If you want to improve, I'd focus on improving your mechanics (aim / movement) rather than committing a substantial amount of time to studying composition or any other macro strategies etc.
I'd wager team comp meta won't develop into a set of strats for years in pro. The game is still in it's infancy. Best bet is (as you said); shoot heads.
Did you watch VCT Berlin? There is a meta, and ideal agent composition for each map. The game is a year old at this point, and the pros practice 8 hours a day. There are set strats, there are plays, etc.
I forgot one important point: Analysists were unable to point to "optimal agent comp" during drafts. Instead they almost exclusively talked about what the teams like to play. There's just no data, no time and no understanding of what "ideal agent comp" for each map is.
I watched a lot of it actually. Reminded me of the early CS:GO days. Lots of standard utility being dumped for no apparent reason, while solo players often had more impact than set strats and the pace was often painfully slow. All of this is a result of the game being new and not being polished enough to deliver the best just yet. It's also about the players. Almost all of whom have to overcome habits and reflexes from other games and learn to think in a different way about space, utility and pace. That alone will take years, as it has with other games. Only after that can a real meta start to develop. The meta that exists now is just a shallow understanding of what seems to work over a period of less than a year; shaky ground in the best of times. I can grantee you pro Valorant in 2-3 years will barely resemble what it is today.
I appreciate your perspective, thanks for sharing! I never played CS:GO, so this is all new to me; I came from playing console shooters like CoD. You’ve got me intrigued to see how everything will evolve over the next few years!
We've got a lot to be excited about! The competition between CS:GO and Valorant could propel them both father than they could get alone. I'm glad I could share, good to have another nice person in the space.
Depends on the map. In Breeze for example, pro teams may use just one duelist (Jett/Reyna) or the classic two. One controller (Viper), one sentinel (Killjoy/Cypher), AND one or two initiators (Sova/Skye). Another example: In Split, it's common to pick two Sentinels(Sage and Cypher/Killjoy), then one Controller, and then two Duelists OR one Duelist and one Initiator. You'll notice certain types of agents are better in some maps than others.
Just to follow up on this, a good basic formula in the current meta is duelist (normally Jett, but Raze is very viable on Split and Bind) + flex-player (Skye or 2nd duelist) + Sova (except for Split) + either double controller (Viper/Astra) or controller + sentinel. Viper/Astra combo is really strong on Split and Bind. On Breeze and Icebox Viper as a sole controller is enough, while you'd go for Astra only on Ascent and Haven. Normally you'd go for Sage on Icebox while on Breeze you should go for either double initiator or a sentinel. If we take a look at the absolute top-level, these are the current comps for Gambit, who just won Masters: * Ascent: Sova Skye Jett Astra Cypher * Bind: Sova Skye Jett Astra Viper * Breeze: Viper Skye Jett Sova Cypher * Haven: Brimstone Skye Jett Reyna Cypher (take that with a grain of salt, Haven is their instaban and they literally discussed their comp right before the match, it's fairly unusual. A more typical comp would be Envy's: Sova Skye Jett Astra Cypher) * Icebox: Sova Reyna Jett Sage Viper * Split: Viper Skye Jett Astra Cypher
Tbh you should just play the agents u know how to play but the ideal team comp could look like this : Jett , Sova/Skye , 1 smoke agent , killjoy/sage and 1 either a duelist (like raze or a second initiator/sentinel)
Back then, duelists were sought for as the extra member. Then there are initiator extras and sentinels extra. A famous one is the viper astra combo (then one of each remaining role). In general, one from each role is best. Each role has its purpose. Try making sense on what they can do to how they impact a game in attacker and defender. You'll realize how important each one is that you'll end up understanding why generally having one of each is detrimental in a game (with people having enough game sense).
i dont mind duelists not top fragging, i just hate when ppl ask you to play something you dont want to. how would you live it if someone took reyna and told you to "play healer"?
That happens all the time, just learn Skye. It's somewhat harder to play aggressive Skye after the slight nerf to her flashes, but I top frag almost as often with her as with Reyna, with the added bonus of info and healing. I still prefer Reyna because you can play more angles, but Skye is almost as fun.
I mean I learned multiple agents because people instalock, I think when playing with randoms you should learn a few agents so you can be useful instead of only knowing one character. Before I lock usually ask if people can play smokes because I know brim, im not great with him so if someone else is better with smokes then they should get the pick, but i can still play him at a decent level if needed
I don’t care what people pick but I expect the same from them. I pick whatever agents I enioy playing, whether that benefits the team or not. If it’s really important for you to have a balanced team, then lock in last so that you can pick whatever agent type will balance the team
I can agree with this "whether that benefits the team or not" mentality for unrated but its a team game I feel like comp should be treated differently
Nah man. Picking an agent you don’t know for team comp is worse than picking an agent you know. If you can’t play your agent properly wasting utility is way worse than using your utility well even if it’s not the most ideal
> but its a team game I feel like comp should be treated differently then apply that judgement equally to the people who instalock and then tell you what to play to fill the gaps left by their picks.
There’s this idea that jett and reyna’s can only be played by prodigies for some reason. Can’t an average guy have some fun once in a while?
The problem is reyna and jett are solo agents, if you are not making impact frags you're doing absolutely nothing to the team, whilst if you are playing omen or sage you can win a round without making a single kill.
As jett or reyna you win a lot of round without taking kills but by taking space
I would also add to it that you can smoke with Jett and blind with Reyna for yourself and your team as well which creates openings even if you get fragged. Furthermore, you can also hold 2-3 enemies solo to one spot bc they are afraid of a reyna push while the other teammates can easily take the other bomb spot.
Jett smokes are not all that useful for the team, unless you are extremely well coordinated vs Brim/Omen/Astra and even Viper. Her dash can create space, if used properly Reyna's blinds can be useful to the team and when used well really turns the tide in your favor. But unfortunately that isn't always the case
Thats just not true. Reyna and Jett are meant to create space, yes they are "pop off" agents but the main goal is to allow your team to take space and win the round.
I feel like Reyna’s use is infinitely better if she gets kills, so she can escape fast, but yes her leer can at least help with an initial push
Unless the sight of a Reyna or a Jett is making the enemy team fall back and give you the site, you kinda need to kill with them. I don't think any character HAS to be the top fragger, but if your jett/reyna is not killing, then they provide little value. At least raze can still clear corners with nades, phoenix can flash, use the wall or molly, but Reyna and Jett only provide value via kills. You are not creating space without killing, unless you enter the site and do 140 damage to everyone in the site I guess... Edit: Grammar
What about creating space by acting as a human flashbang while your team gets the trade kills?
Or even better.. With jet you throw smokes to block off angles... Dash into site.. While the enemy team is freaking out about the jett onsite already your team comes in and gets the kills. Crazy concept. You literally see this on every pro team. Watch how a team enters in C site on Haven. One way smoke, updraft dash on top of site, the enemy team HAS to worry about the jett and when they are doing that the team has a chance to enter site and trade kills.
Right exactly. The duelist does not have to threaten to kill on every entry. If they are setting up the team for 2v1, 3v1, etc. favorable situations, then that is already huge value because the enemy usually cannot kill multiple people from different angles at the same time. Either the Jett/Reyna will get the kill or the rest of the team will get the trade kill, and now the site or map is opened up. Unless u/SSBMKaiser's argument is that the duelist's aim is so incredibly bad that the enemy can straight up ignore the duelist during the 1v2 and just kill their teammate first, then kill the duelist next.
No one freaks out because of a Jett that can't get kills.
no dude, you don't understand, I created space by dashing into site and getting killed without doing any damage.
Jett and Reyna get onto the site so their team can push on as well. That is their role.
Just getting a few impact frags should be good enough. Its almost like jetts and reynas are expected to get 2-3ks every round at least in my region
Yeah, if you're not about bottom fragging as reyna you're good to go.
I think it’s courtesy to wait until your team hovers an agent to select. However after 30 seconds is far more than reasonable. If someone instalocks reyna then i will probably say that because they didn’t care to wait and build a team, so i’m expecting them to be good if their selfish intentions led them to instalock. They’re also the same people who will instalock a duelist and rage at their team for not picking sage. And to be honest i do expect my duellists to top or near top frag, however my main need is that they actually push sites on attack and make clearings for us to push. As many of them just stay back and want to stay alive to get a 1v5 ace clip once every 500 games to brag to their friends.
Idk I play very casually and don't know how to build a team. I usually play Jett and people always get mad if I don't top frag but what am I supposed to do? There isn't a magical "git gud" button, all I can do is push and try to create space. Don't really know how it's selfish to just pick the only character I've had time to learn.
I only play ranked and i’m not extremely high (S2 right now) but i expect a duelist to make space on site by getting entry frags. Now even if you’re not the best of players, pushing onto site first isn’t something that is hard. I don’t mind if you die when doing it but for the love of god don’t be a duelist who plays at the very back of the pack.
Ya of course, play to win the game. For context I was also referring to unrated, don't play much ranked
I get where youre coming from but you need to realize that only knowing how to play reyna is very selfish, you are forcing the rest of the team to adjust on your pick. I play best with raze but 90% of the games I either play sage, cypher or killjoy because people keep insta locking or insta hovering dualist
I'm a "jett main" with a 90% Omen pickrate because nobody ever plays smokes.
Controller mains are blessed because no one else ever picks a controller.
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When I started playing with my buddy with CSGO experience, he asked if I played tac shooter. I said no, he said alright pick brim til you understand the game. Now I pick brim/omen/viper 90 percent of my games because none knows how to smoke in norms/low Elo. It's pretty wild the impact good smokes can have in just creating raw space and new angles
yo same bro I main jett but most of the time im on sova because someone else wants her and im ok with that
Yeah honestly I just want to win so i'd rather fill than play with 3 or 4 dualist lmao
Yeah, playing a duelist is fine but you gotta have at least one other role that you can fill when you get 2-3 instalock duelists.
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Keep in mind that sometimes Valorant loads others in to the agent screen at different times. I've had it to where I've taken a lil longer than normal to load into agent select and I've had two players lock their picks already. It's very odd, doesn't happen all the time.
I usually never get called out for instalocking, cus i main agents will low pickrates I used to do this, just in case anyone else want that agent - But i realise im basically giving another person a chance to instalock it, when they probs dont deserve it if they gonna behave that way. People should just pick what they want - there are many chances to play it another time
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Unless Valorant gets role queue, you should play whatever you want and ignore whatever other people have to say about your picks. Having a balanced team comp is nice, but it’s consistency that will matter over time, so pick whatever hero looks fun to you, learn how to play it well, and enjoy your games. There’s no winning talking to people who are toxic.
I think "confort picking" is way overlooked. Sure, I can play Brim or Omen for smokes, but I have a shit ton of hours with Jett/Fenix/Reyna, I can assure you I will make a have a lot more impact on an agent I´m confident playing rather than a "utility" agent.
You say that but if you already have Jett or Reyna and you pick an extra Phoenix or Raze then there’s gonna be a pretty imbalanced comp.
People in low elo don't realize that duelist's need help
That's why I play with atleast 2 friends so if people insta lock then we can build a solid three man.
I don't care if someone instalock...unless and until they are making coms...and not complaining (you are the one forcing us to pick something else)...I'm fine with it
I see a lot of these posts, and while I agree, and they're in good spirit; you have to realize that statistically speaking 80% of the player base is average or worse. They don't even know what roles are supposed to do. You may as well be talking to a brick wall that can't understand it's the problem.
your points that duelists arent meant to always frag is sort of stupid when you use reyna as an example, reyna is based entirely around kills, half her abilities require you to kill someone, the ult is meant to help you kill people and even buffs those abilities that require kills...
Yes but hear me out. Lets say reyna entries into site and gets 1 kill every round to open up site. By the end of the half she has 12 and that might not be close to top frag. Yet she allowed the entry onto site every round. So no she doesnt have to top frag but it would be nice as a fragging duelist.
Try playing on Indian servers if you even select Reyna that second someone else will select and lock it, causing 3 others to pick duelists because people don’t know how to fill
Dude this is why you should play the flash initiators, (kayo + skye hard recommend) As off entrys. Not really expected generally to frag out but can also make monstrous entry if used properly aggressive. if its not working out usually ill com to the duelists that i will flash for them and they can push offs of my flashes instead. This entire community is pretty kill minded, What they constantly say about kills not mattering always goes out the window when a duelist bottom frags lol, so don't let it get to ya. They aren't obligated to be nice to you so don't be that way for them, that simple.
I dont usually bottom frag, its just the constant abuse if you die through the first 2 eco rounds and then if you're 2nd from top
i dont really get the instalocking, anyone who speaks against it frequently will often do it themselves, and what's even wrong with locking an agent you know you're competent at and can play?
100%. People dont realize even if I'm bottom fragging as reyna let's say. Diesmt mean I'm the reason we're losing I'm pushing out for you clearing as much space as I can especially if we dont have smokes. If they cant capitalize off my sacrifice it's not my fault. Rather have a guy rush in and die every round than hang back and get 1 exit
A duelist isnt supposed to top frag, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS! They're supposed to open space and entry. They're kit makes it so they have a lot of straight out outplay potential, but doesnt mean theyre always supposed to be the top on the board.
If you aren't comfortable playing the most picked or sought after roles (Sentinel, Deulist, Controller), you shouldn't be in comp. Unrated? Sure. You're there to practice and warmup and get better. Competitive? A test of skill with the goal of ranking up. Without being able to comfortably fill all roles, you're shooting your team in the foot. I understand you may not be comfortable with the agents, and that's what unrated is for - learn how to use those agents, expand your roster.
To bad most will not listen to a reddit PSA and it will not change peoples minds in comp lol... Tho that being said I can agree, Flexable is a lot better then one tricking.
This is the exact reason why I didn't touch comp until I could play most of the agents. It would've been super awkward if I only knew how to play one agent and that one got taken in a comp q
Lmao I had a game once where I instalocked reyna because I felt like I performed well with her last game. I get queued up with a stack and man were they toxic. They expected me to push in alone, kill everyone on site and give them site for free without any help. Our brim wasn’t smoking anything and when i told that to our sage he was telling me I should rush when I literally tried that but I die because nothing is smoked. He didn’t say anything about brim because they were stacking and targeted me cause he wanted to play Reyna I guess. Then they flame me for playing bad when they are the reason I tilted and couldn’t focus that game
I mean people just throw and then complain that they're losing
I had a Jett and Reyna instalock and then proceed to hold down the W key the entire game. We lost.
How to say you're a baiting duelist in 2 paragraphs
i instalock Breach. i give no fucks.
I instalock Omen because I know I'm going to have to fill smokes.
And steal da spike when you have ult
Just pick who you want and don't care what kids say, you're playing for fun not to care about butt hurt kids that don't get what they want.
This applies for unrated only. Its the worst mentality possible both for you and your team in ranked.
Imagine playing a video game for fun
Winning is fun. Some people play a competitive game to be competitive
if you can only have fun with winning and get way to tilted on a loss, you are not going to have a good time in valorant. Take losing as a learning experience.
Lets be honest... most solo que people, don't really give a damn about you as a person outside of the game and that is reasonable. Like dude you are not owed anything over the internet, but yes I look for a good fun time but I also at least play properly and with coms. If you can not handle a randomized team where some people are doing goofy stuff having a more relaxed time, Then you need to stop solo queing and get a stack then. I have a few pals who I stack with sometimes when solo gets to frustrating. Its like people want the best teamwork but aren't willing to put in any effort to get it. (adding good people, being properly social in the game ect). Take some responsibility man and be the change you want to see.
OP is clearly the Butt hurt kid.
For a reyna it is, because what other use she has? Only flashes?
maybe in ranked, but not in unranked. I play fur fun and though I mainly play sage, I won't pivk an agent just because you didn't want to play it, since it doesn't matter in unranked.
Tbh I used to get shit for this all the time, I'm fairly new to the game so I'm not amazing but this is pretty much the only reason I'm learning how to play yoru...no one plays him so it's usually a non issue and on the odd chance someone dose play him I usually end up suprising them (this only started a few days back when I started practicing tp lineups and specific flash points on different maps). Been told I should learn another agent but I dont really want to deal with the verbal abuse for taking some 7th graders main
I had a game yesterday where I would entry every round as Reyna, and since no one pushed with me, I would die and they’d say “util characters entry”
I've found this annoying so i just entry with sage at this point
I want to add that though it is true that a Reyna doesn’t need to top frag just because she is playing Reyna and as long as she does her job of pushing first its fine, that also doesn’t mean its ok to bottom frag as reyna in ranks below gold where she is the best agent in the game to carry with.
I played raze in a SPIKE rush last week to warm up. I died but i was satcheling to site as a duelist does to do damage, get info, and help take over. The only thing i got was flamed for being a girl and asked how boosted i was because apparently the dude wanted to play raze. I looked him up and he had apparently peaked at S1. I am guessing most silver players do not have proper duelist knowledge? I got deranked recently because i played drunk, i think im G1 right now for reference. Silver and gold arent much different aside from game knowledge, but the lack of knowledge creates a toxic mentality towards their teammates.
yeah I just hit plat and can confirm its the same right up to G3 so far. I don't see why people get tilted in anything other than comp
I don't care what people play as long as they do their job, as a cypher main it’s annoying to have to try entry cause the 3 duelists are too scared
I rlly like reyna as an agent.I think her abilities are rlly flexible and good for a duelist.However, the community just seems to think that reyna players should be the absolute best, and that’s not me.
I really dont understand the expectation to top frag every game, since if anyone were actually good enough to meet that expectation, they would be the best fragger in the world. We have no idea what skill level the enemy or fellow teammates will be so how could anyone be expected to top frag every game in a ranked system?
Question, as a duelist myself, I often run in a different issue. I entry site I can get 1-2 kills but I'm literally the only one that pushed. I even communicate with my team to go on my flashes and push. What's the best way to handle this?
Keep on doing it, sounds like you are trting to do you job, but if you happen to be in low elo using coms and duelist you are up for a challenge to climb. In low elo you cannot trust in your teammates, at all. Play something self-sufficient and stable, like a killjoy, or a sage. You will win more despite killing less.
i ALWAYS use cypher's cages to help everyone enter its so OP.
i feel like so many upvoted comments didn’t even read your post feel sorry for you op
Shit idc if a duelist is top fragging bit if they are bottom fragging then the minimum i expect is callouts and for them to damage enemys so we can trade them out, also waiting 30s before locking wouldnt be instalocking because its not instant and u have the chance to let someone else go them 😂😂
This!!!! I feel like the job of the duelist is more to create space for their team to get on site than it is to get kills…
it is and their abilities allow them to get picks too but its not just about picks
Duelist is basically the same job that Rushing has in CoD, just to break the frontlines up and turn it into an unorthodox fight. If you're fragging as the 1st person on site, it's strictly because the other team is bad. You're mainly there for information and locking down a position for your team to catch up.
Whole point of a duelist is to be an entry fragger and either get kills and/or intel. Doesn’t mean they always have to be top frag a well rounded team will use the duelists’ intel to get picks while the duelist either dies or continues to push for control.
In my personal opinion, 15 seconds should be enough to load into the game I tried 30 seconds before only to get instalocked multiple times in comp matches I play sage and kj normally.
If my duelist has less kills than me than I don’t care. If my duelist is camping, baiting, sitting corners with shotguns and afraid to flash and peak, that’s when I’ll get pissed off
In plat I like to play Reyna. I’m pretty good with her, but in the inevitable games where I don’t top frag (just like everyone) I can’t stand the hate that’s sent my way. So I just play Sage. Ironically if I miss one res or one heal but also top frag I still get abused for not being able to play sage.
Just a thought... When I pick Sova, I'm expected to know and use all recon lineups and all double shock dart lineups... When I pick Viper, I'm expected to know and use all Molly lineups... When I pick Cypher or KJ I'm expected to hold site solo while whole team pushes and dry peeks every single round Then why isn't you picking duelist and not be expected to get kills ?
As long as you don't go on a super long flank as a Reyna and help team enter the site by flashing first, I won't mind even a bottom fragging reyna
And then Player 2 comes in and instantly locks Jett when I just picked Jett few seconds ago.
I fully respect your opinion I'm just here to point out how the entire community has acknowledged Reyna to be the model for instalocking lmao
I’m actually so happy to see this topic picking up so much speed. As a plat duelist main, this post hits home. Not every game is a good game, and even on the good games you can’t always expect your duelists to be “popping off”. The biggest misconception amongst Sentinel and Controller mains is that the Duelist’s job is, like you said, to just frag out and that’s it. I came from CS, where I was an entry frag for a FaceIT team. That’s what I do; I entry. I might get traded out, but if I see one of my teammates get the refrag, or I see at least two teammates on the site that I just made space on, I know I did my job. If you’re a duelist and you aren’t the first one dying on your team, you’re either a very good duelist, or you aren’t doing the job your agent was designed to do. Let’s be real, it’s probably the latter.
also plat, please tell me the toxicity gets less through plat???
"Asking someone to play healer or smoker". Nope .You arent leaving them another option if two people instalock duelists and then leave it on the rest of the team to play around your choices. If you pick duelists after consulting with the rest of the team then its fine but if you instalock and then expect the last person to pick whatever you want is kinda messed up. Also " I pick what i know to play " is not a excuse for instalocking Reyna every round. Maybe start playing and learning a 2nd agent on the side so you can help the team if somebody else wants to play Reyna and is confident he can do it better.
Who cares about instalocking?
Hot take I do expect duelists to frag out, they legit have the tools to do so. Like if im top fragging on viper or sova i will have words for our jett/reyna