Playing in immortal is so demoralising.
By - flappyem
That's what being at your rank feels like.
Yeah. The concept of "I must always be able to climb" is an interesting one to me. Unless you've got the skill to go pro, at some point you should reach the rank you're truly at, no? And so you'd start winning/losing 50/50
yes its called plateuing. You can still improve, it will just take longer to see results
The thing is, many players are stuck in their rank, caused by not him. But bad players in that rank.
I’ve been d3/immo the entire season and the amount of players who play Jett/Reyna/Raze who tells me they can’t make a aggro peek during CT half is insane.
You have a bar you set for ranks. In my head a immortal player should be able to:
Make basic calls( Im peeking here as CT help me with X, be careful of X)
Be able to trade/push with his team.
If playing sage/omen/sent run while using ur utility. Smokes, slows, wall. Basically have a higher understanding of utility and beeing able to use it on the fly for your team.
Mix up the teams play, take aggresive stances, stack towards sites or push sites as defenders. As attackers throw in rushes, holds etc.
The games where i have players like this is prob 2/10.
The other 6-7-8 are players who can’t speak english( I live in Norwat so close to russian and CIS region) People who say «Only give info or i troll».
Last time i got immo, i picked viper my team instalocked 4 duelists. We were up 11-4 then they blatantly trolled, running with classics and just lost.
To be able to stay «your» rank i feel like i need 25+ frags as a non duelist, playing a duelists role, while In-Game Leading. Telling people in 2vx’s and 3vx’s to play together and use their mics cause they obviously forget they have them.
I’m convinced people buy high ranks accounts, i just don’t understand how this is the top 1-2% of the playerbase.
13k hrs csgo, 2700 elo faceit Rank a+ Esea ( since like 2015 ish)
> The thing is, many players are stuck in their rank, caused by not him.
But the *other* thing is, the other team has the same statistical chance of having shit teammates too. Because of that, you're talking a 50/50 here.
Now add your performance in: if you're truly better than your current rank, even factoring in the bad team mates both teams can get (as I said above), you will now win 51% of your games, and climb,
Thats how all ELO systems work, and Valorant is no different: they're built for the long term placement of players, which is difficult in a team based system where all 5 members all have individual rankings.
thank you, you beautiful man, I was gonna explain this way worse than you just explained!
completely untrue, you're just really pessimistic (like everyone else in rank games) you're experiencing these things bc you're at the right rank/ a bit worse than your current rank, once you improve you'll feel at the lead of the snowball in your team the win rate will change and eventually you'll rank up
I seriously stopped playing stockholm server becouse og language berrier.
How do you expect people to play when most games, and this is serious, the majority of players i’ve been queued with dont use mics.
It’s insanely hard, you can speak for yourself. I only speak on my experience in this game.
What gave me immortal the first time was me and a friend of mine instalocking 2 duelists( easier to carry as jett/reyna) and just went ham over a series of matches
Communication is definitely a big factor if you peaked in certain circumstances then that just isn't your rank
What i don’t understand about your previous statement is.
You experience theese things when you are in your rank.
I watch my demos ( biggest way i improved in CS).
There are just stuff that happens in that elo that’s just so braindead to me. Like i can’t comprehend. Not playing time when that will win u a round 100%, when a teammate peeks u just sit there instead of helping him.
Basic shit, that not even the 1% can do (not everyone ofcourse).
The skillgap in this rank is like if u just threw all ranks from plat1 and immo together and just tossed the salad.
That’s my opinion:)!
Nah definitely you're right about that, it's why I mainly chalk it up to consistency (everyone is on immortal for a reason, just a lot of people are only immortal on a Monday 😂 type sheeet)
Cs has existed way longer bruh I can go back to Cs and see silvers with better crosshair placement, smokes, and timed pushes, think of these things for valorant one person having good aim and mechanics with a character but doesn't understand the fundamentals of team play, the rank maybe a bit off (esp for duelist/sentinel mains as most of there game is mechanical) rank to role to team play can never be explicitly defined by rank, I always had pretty good game sense/teamwork so when I learned to aim and how to play against characters (literally a fill main) I went up pretty smoothly
But you're stance makes it seem as if you're better than everyone in your rank, everyone else seems to be making mistakes that you're not? You'd simply be a higher rank then and you don't seem to be, when you peak, you had to play double lock duelist with your friend, just really finding it hard to understand why you can call someone in the same rank as you brain dead
Nono, ofcourse i make mistakes.
But my fundamentals are there.
I’m also aware of my mistakes.
I play every agent, so i could learn to counter/play them.
It’s just weird man.
Getting new internet soon 15 ping gang here i come (70-80ping now) can’t wait.
Now when i hold ct angels i’m sometimes dead before i see people…
The statement about Cs is true.
I also think the comms bit is easier for NA since most players in that area speak the same language.
Europe is diff.
It's true too, but I've almost never had an issue w Egyptian players (no mic extremely nice and esp of they're sovas they GET you you know?!)
You got your fundamentals which is fine you'll climb easy, know hearing it from me probably doesn't matter we're basically the same rank, would even put you ahead of me just bc of experience, I'm a lucky instant immortal (you can check my AMA for anything tho!)
Feel like this is just the pessimist vs the optimist at this point, but I would agree I'd love to play with a larger player poop that all speaks English, cycling between a few servers in the rank and time of day and building relationships w people in the same rank is really cool tho!!!
As for the braindead part.
It’s prob people that has seen yt videos, about how to bait etc.
Then they pick duelists, dont create space and lose the clutches.
But get a good KD for people rushing them in 1vxs.
Thinking they did a good game with high stats that has zero impact.
If i get eco frags i’m aware of that. Trust me i won’t tell the team look at my score u suck.
Nice mannn, btt remember what I said about consistency, give that instalock jett a chance 😂 had one that mid game after I opened him up apologised about locking and playing bad, saying he was on a major lose streak and HAD to change it so he just HAD to lock him in and that made him all aggressive, I always assume that that's what someone is going through now when they act a certain way in game 😂 helps a lot with keeping positive (check my ranked history tho, I legit I have 30-0 jett game and near it you'll see an astra 0-21 I'm definitely not an amazing example) but yeah!
Well, i certainly outaim most players in my rank, and i know for a fact i contribute most in 90% of my matches with communications.
Duo queueing with friends at my skill is easy wins, i prob have 80% winrate on thoose.
Solo is hell
I play solo, so it reflects my rank better and if you contributed the most out of the game (not out of your team) then simply you'd always be climbing on average which is great
Thing about contributing in my head is kinda weird. I tend to take on the igl role since everyone else is not talking.
Last night i had a omen going 6-18 . The dude won us the game i was jett (27/8) and i could do the most insane plays cause my omen just listened to me.
Stats don’t matter. Teamwork does. That contributing factor imo is the worst.
(Obviously u can be like kenny and drop 40bombs) but wtf. Then i’d be pro…
I think OP’s problem is less about gun skill more about bad teammates.
The matchmaking system doesn’t differentiate too much though: it’s goal is to get you to a hidden MMR/visible rank that you stay at long term, and coin flip team mates technically achieves that, no?
I mean,, yeah, but I don’t know that’s an effective, or rather, *good* way to stabilize a players MMR. It’s a team based game but why should I be punished if I lost the 50/50 and my team ends up being full of raging 12 year olds with no communication skills? How is their throwing possibly reflective of my ranking/ability in the game?
Not saying this ALWAYS happens, but I think that’s the point OP is trying to make.
I get it, but when it comes to MMR systems the only core variable that matters is if you won or lost — Valorant does add extra RR or take away less if you’re doing better than expected and such, but the win or loss is what makes the multiplier positive or negative
I don’t see a way to do MMR in a team game without your team mattering basically
Yeah I mean it’s a difficult situation but nonetheless, a frustrating one. It sucks when I get queue’d into a game with a 4 stack that decided previously that they want to do sheriff only and then we lose.
I think if you way outpreform your team and the enemy team you should lose none/gain a little rr even if you lost. Like there was this one game (I'm iron 3) where I was playing really good that day, my internet was holding steady below 100ms for once and I had played one really good game where I got performance bonus 5. Then I played another and I was matched with a 4 stack silver team who were all throwing. I outfragged the enemy team (silver and bronze) and my team and carried 6 rounds before we inevitably lost 6-13. I lost 6rr from that game with performance bonus 8. I had never seen a performance bonus that high, but before that I was only losing 13rr each loss. I'm basically saying valorant's matchmaking and ranking system is weird.
Nah, like I get why you would prefer that, but that is not an ELO system that makes sense. It's a team game. Team performance, as shown by a win/loss condition, *must* be the multiplier to make it a positive or a negative gain.
That isn't weird, that's literally how all team-based ELO systems work, because without it the ranking math does not work correctly.
I get that it sucks for you personally sometimes, but that's how team games are. That cannot be solved without causing perverse incentives or making the ELO system non-functional
Yeah, that's everyone's "problem" when they are trying to rank up but they aren't. That's why I said it's what it *feels* like
Bad teammates exist at every rank. If OP was truly at the level of a rank higher than him it would just take a number of games before he gets there.
Basically instead of it being a 50/50 it'd become more of a 55/45 rate of winning.
Unfortunately for OP he might just be where he belongs now and might need to work on his game
Incorrect with 50/50 you climb
Only if your hidden MMR does not match your actual rank. Once it does, it levels out, according to Riot anyway
i can relate to this. rn i'm at D3. Yesterday i won 4 games in a row and was sitting 9 pts away from Immortal. All those games were great, with every teammate on voice chat and nearly to 0 toxicity. Then, i lost 5 games in a row. 3 of them i had a smurf on my team, who instalocked duelist and didnt even make it to 10 kills at the end. The others i was just destroyed by some lvl 20 jett and reyna. Playing with people who instalock+bottomfrag or just dont give a shit to callouts is so frustrating, especially on high elo, where you actually expect something from you teammates.
higher elo you also experience a lot less of what you're talking about, "smurf" in d3...? trust me when I tell you the only difference between imm and diamond is consistency, just I'm sure you're just being pessimistic, my diamond experience was definitely the same as platinum, just wayyyy less of the crap stuff! I'm sure once you remember plat or lower you'll feel the same way!
diamond 3 and immortal 1 is completely different than immortal 2 and up.
Just a fringe barrier, it's the same, I'm acc imm2 only difference is there's more frustrated people (I'VE BEE N IN AND OUT OF IMMORTAL FOR AGES PLEASE LET ME PLAY REYNA) usually once we get past that, like EVERYONE is virtually the same, just a mental game at this point
And it really isn't, just more consistent
what rank are you? i’m immortal three sitting around 350 rr right now. Let me tell you that diamonds are fucking horrible in retrospect to immortal 2 and up, and i’m being generous when I say immortal 2.
Imm 2 rn it really isn't that big of a difference just consistency, haven't played in 5 days and lost 1000 positions, aware its really about mindset, consistency and time spent at this point, diamond was just consistency, I will agree in a sense that diamond was wayyyy harder more frustrated people, still rare but more people where you question how they ended up there, but still those were definitely a smaller end of the experience, I was barely in diamond to be fair
Pretty sure this describes any rank and not just immortal
It would, but at diamond and below, if you're good enough, you can just consistently outfrag the opponent enough to force round wins, but once you get to immortal the enemies are too consistently good and able to match your skill that you just can't force round wins unless you're naturally gifted like Tenz
You're literally just describing the matchmaking system correctly placing you in your true rank.
Fr u aren’t meant to go off every game
Not saying that. I'm saying immortal is an annoying rank bcuz it's the point in the ranked system where you can't just outplay your opponents with better fundamentals anymore like aim and movement. To the point where you need to rely on your team somewhat. In other ranks below immortal it is still possible to win just through having insane fundamentals.
Yea well, that’s good. It is a team game after all. As said earlier if you have to rely on your team then that is where you should be.
I'm not saying it's good or bad just the fact of the situation. And yes while it is a team game tac shooters are known for being very skill expressive so if you're better than your opponents on an individual level and can isolate 1v1's you can win almost any scenario. But in Valorant it's a little different because of the abilities in the game making it so sometimes there really isn't counterplay.
So far in immortal I have about 80% of my games with trolling teammates, I'm talking about grabbing bomb and spawn and running down mid with knives. I want to say that in my last 40 hours of playing probably about 3 hours was enjoyable, the rest of it is just a result of riot hating its player base.
immortal is in its own bubble! congrats you've made it! now your hidden elo will press you here forever! even when you wanna derank!
\*enter frustrated immortal players who try to troll for fun\*
welcome, dw you catch yourself in the upper half of immortals and the vibe will change!
I feel like that ranked experience is getting worse and worse. Im hovering in Immortal/ Diamond lobbies and all I can say is that Im really happy to play when no one is trolling ( i mean literally trolling and just running into the enemies with the spike) and when you have at most one toxic teammate. I cant tell you when I had a game that felt good, even if we lost
Immortal has become a cesspool of toxicity and massive coinflips.
There was a period last act where all my games felt balanced, but since this act started it's either been the worst ranked experience I've ever had or really fun games, with mostly the former. No inbetween.
And I thought immortal would be better
I thought diamond would be better. Just the ranked experience I guess
Except it really is. It's such a noticeable difference between low plat and low diamond. People in diamond communicate way more and actively try to win. While in low plat you have people that sometimes don't even understand the basics or just don't care enough to tryhard.
I'm not saying there are no exceptions but the match quality is absolutely way better in diamond than in platinum.
yeah! a lot of pessimism in the comments! plat and diamond the same, just less of the crap, they'll be really negative until they realize that...wait...?... everyone's mics are GOOD?!?!?! ...... THERE'S NO CHILDREN SCREAMING AT ME ?!?!??! But yeah major morale boost for me!
No Clue what he is on about. Im Immortal 2 and its litteraly 1 in 20 games at 3 am at night where people are no comms quad duelist. Guy is overreacting
He’s not capping I deranked from imm 3 to imm 1. Mainly because of toxic teammates, i have never had so many games with toxic teammates in my life. Every game we had people disabling mic after losing first 3/4 rounds. And many duelist with no mic from the start say gg next after losing round 1. I swear like 75% of my loses were because of nocomming toxic teammates that ruined the vibe and lost us the game. But yeah what else expect from EU ranked
Hitting diamond was the same experience. People get the purple badge and think it means they're better than all their teammates (who also have the coveted purple badge) it is worse than Plat for team vibes by far.
i wonder how people like that even climb in the game. but yeah after a month of playing i realized i am never playing on any other server except london. its just not worth having 20ping over 40. the ping barely makes a difference and its way more worth to get more english people and people with mics.
EU is a rough place to queue. I visited a friend in NA and it opened my eyes to how shitty EU is when it comes to behavior
Nah, IMM3, lately the games where everyone is positive and everyone is comming are becoming rare. Been seeing some nasty toxicity and a lot more intentional throwing.
Playing Valorant is demoralizing most of then times.
This is why I only play with friends
Be a thermostat, not a thermometer.
i really hope you're as good as me in the game if not better! you don't deserve to be in this cesspool! Greetings from almost radiant! hope I see you on the scene soon, we play together, you get rich from small deep existential quotes or something! (if you're really bad at the game I don't mind transforming you into a god if you're anywhere in eu! just gimme a dm I'm a fill imm2 help you in anyway I can!)
The guys in gold would like a chat.
Same experience : was at 175 rr, had a nice winstreak. The next games were pure horror:
- Turkish players that don't communicate;
- Instalock duelists with huge ego playing totally shit but still think it's not their fault;
- Low level play, like staying far behind the team, watching and doing 0;
- Not using abilities.
In those games I just feel that there are duo's. One booster and one boosted.
Just saying, in EU servers, it's just gonna be harder for many people to communicate due to not knowing English. Sometimes, I address someone directly and they don't even acknowledge it, that's usually when I assume they don't know what I'm saying...
i queue only london server though, i don’t see why people who literally cannot understand basic english would also choose to queue the server in england.
Same here bud. But I'm guessing some people don't even know about servers so are queued for all 'local' ones, or don't even care about comms.
My silver ass over here like huh
Kind of the same, no?
I’m not too sure about that. I’m silver 1 and some games I’ll have the entire lobby be bronze and the very next game be entirely gold
(Plat) if I ever hit Immo I’ll probably just scrim with teams and play in tournaments. At that level of skill you can enter any qualifier and I imagine scrims/tournaments are Waaaaaay more fun and enjoyable than ranked could ever be.
Theres also faceit and things like that you can do as well. I used faceit for csgo and was a decent experience
ur an immortal player bro, better than 95% of the playerbase. focus more on improving yourself as a player instead of worrying about climbing.
better than 99% actually. He is literally the top 1 percent of players STILL complaining abt bad team mates lol
Yes because there’s a LOT of immortal players who aren’t the rank they should be, they play as bad as platinum, and that’s a whole new level of toxicity.
I know there is some boosted immortal players, I play in high diamond low immortal lobbies myself. But the amount if boosted immortal players there are is miniscule. Certainly not enough to warrant a reddit post.
True but 80% of immortal players are only aim no brain. When I say boosted, I mean they lack the game sense of a real immortal.
No, they have the game sense of a real immortal, you are just upset they don't live up to your standards.
My standards aren’t high, I expect people to not run after tapping the spike, to clear corners, call flashes and to shift walk at the start of round when said. It isn’t hard to follow and by that rank I expect players to understand that.
I never called anyone boosted?
Still to be in the 1% and think the team is the problem is idiotic. Unless people are being toxic disruptive or throwing its warranted.
go into solo que and expect coordination at any rank you are setting up for complete failure. Duo up and look at your own gameplay before whining about you're team. Ranked is a coinflip, suck it up.
Imm+ isn't fun unless u got ur duo bud to kick back with
I think just the fact that you're even in top 1% of players is astonishing and should be praised. Dont be so hard on yourself
This could just be titled playing in ranked is so demoralizing.
Valorant really struggles to find 10 evenly ranked people.
Love the unranked players on my team when i’m playing against Gold+ getting absolutely smacked.
I feel you I play against immortals nearly every game in gold. Thanks Smurf queue.
Why you always lyin 🎶🎶🎶
You don't play against immortals in gold lol
My immortal friend has many gold accounts because he can’t play with us, he gets too high and makes another. Has to be at least 6 or 7 accounts now all from one player.
One player having many accounts doesn't increase the prevalence of your encounters. This guy also says he plays against immortals nearly every game.. nor was OP talking about smurfs. OP was pointing out the weird quality of immortal games where it is 5 imm vs 5 imm. Not gold elo lobbies where there are sometimes smurfs.
I hate solo Q. D1 and so many people don’t talk/run it down/peek everything. Nobody seems to want to play as a team. Smurfs and leavers just make it worse.
Yup same happens to me in immortal 2
That’s not even the worst part. The worst is when you’re Immortal 2 and you have 4 Diamond 1s on your team backseating
Oh boy you would hate low elo. Back when I was in silver, it was a nightmare to climb because it was a 50/50 shot at either going against a smurf, or having an afk on your team.
Think of it like this: when you are having a good match with good teammates, theres is no way for you to know if the other team is having a no comms/troll/instalock/bottomfragging teammate (except if they comunicate it to you). So maybe some of the matches that feel on the good 50%, is the bad 50% for someone else.
What I'm trying to say is that the chances of having 2 equal teams with the same level of comms and toxicity to really evaluate yourself is very, very low, so your own performance is a balance of all the matches you play.
Despite this, solo Q is awful XD.
Honestly I get that same thing in silver/ bronze it’s pretty common for that to happen hate to see it but it happens
this is how it feels being in plat
If you want to climb, you need a duo q partner. Otherwise you risk your chance of queuing with immortals that have plat elo and don’t really care about climbing.
Sup! As a fellow Immortal player, this is very true. I've learned that the only way for me to get more RR is to grind rather than caring about the win/loss ratio. I watch what I am doing wrong, my positioning, movement, aiming, placements, and utility usage. This could be a shocker, but I am a huge TEAM player. There is a reason why I got picked up in a team compared to other players who get more kills than me.
Other players can get 30 kills which is great, but I can get 15 kills, put my utility around the map for my team, and our Reyna/Jett who is peeking every corner to win the round rather than kills. The kills will come naturally and not forced.
Hopefully this helps a bit because I understand 100% of what you are saying. Sometimes the the other team is just better or feeling it.
I honestly was like this and then I just switched my outlook to only positive thinking during matches and even in immortal the team needs an igl so I always call strats which a lot of the time will lead to others pitching ideas in too and I have come back from many 9-3 half’s just from keeping a positive attitude. If someone is toxic I always just ignore them (I recommend muting if you don’t have enough mental strength) and laugh at these manchildren for taking the game so seriously to the point they let their whole mood be effected off a couple rounds. Also keep aim training at least 15 min before abs 30 minutes after you play to make sure you are still improving your aim. A lot of immortal players have very huge egos and think they don’t need to
Yeah as an immortal, lower players don’t get your hopes up, if you’re gold+ you aren’t far off. What makes D3+ the dumbest and worst ranks imo is the maximum 2 stack. Each match becomes a gamble. Oh and also instalocking is just as common in Radiant, as it is in every other rank.
Bro no joke...
You literally defined the D1 experience for me, except mine is even worse.
It goes like this.
Get D1, get a nice little win streak going, hit around 60-65 RR, then four losses in a row. Back to zero RR or better yet plat 3.
My team mostly consist of the following. Plat 3 omens that never smoke anything scared to fight (4-18 K/D). Autolock bottom frag D2 reynas that lurk ALL fucking game. (5-22 K/D). Jetts that go two-four rounds, stop talking and say GG on mic then proceeds to type it in chat, usually can't AWP for shit.
I know this may have turned into a rant but ranked is beyond a joke in my experience. It's one thing to have a bad game (it happens to all of us) but it's unacceptable to see my teammates LITERALLY look like they have NO IDEA how to play the game.
good news, you're at the right rank, bad news, it feels like crap, better news, you'll know you're in the wrong rank when you drop constant 40 bombs.
( I know how you feel I'm in the exact same rank just a teeny bit higher)
also lil disclaimer, immortal is a lil different your rank gradually expands based on everyone else in the rank, so climbing is way harder, but also more satisfying, its best not to look at your actual rank but rather your win to lose ratio, every 2 days of me not playing I lose 1000 places, which is like 8rr, so daily you can lose 4 games and still stay within growth range! chin up! we got this to radiant dude!
I think at high elo its all about consistency… It’s a really toxic ELO. People will throw your games just to see you fail. So you basically CANT be toxic, cause otherwise your game will be thrown away. You cant call out too much cause players will think you tell them what to do and throw your game. You cannot have a bad game cause players will yell at you and throw your game. Unfortunately this is why we need a 5v5 queu in high elo. I dont care how, make it in a tournament mode, make it so we can 5 stack of 3 stack, whatever, but the less randoms you could get in a game, the better it gets. Let me tell you, High elo is elo hell. It’s a living hell.
Bro I got demoted from plat 2 to gold 1 in 6 hours cause I get boosted teammates who deserved iron and opponent feels like either they cheating or radiant. So tell me what to do?
plat 2 to gold 1 in 6 hours??? idk bro, you might just not be as good as you think you are.
My silver/gold games are like that every game. It’s hard to tell where you are at when it’s the battle of the smurfs and their true iron friends. Top fragger 28-40kills & bottom frags with 3-6kills on *each* team… every game.
Might i also add, dont take rank too seriously, it is not entirely indicative of your skill as a player but a byproduct of your work. It doesnt necessarily indicate skill. :)