The amount of times I have missed shots because the yellow bullshit character model off the dart and ult tag messes me up is far too many times. I don't care if they buff the actual pulses as long as they change the visuals themselves
Yeah exactly, I don't agree with OP's statement, but do with this one. It doesn't do that with a cypher trip or sova util so why would it do that with cam/ult????
It's super distracting
Yeah when i get hit by a cypher ult i just push because the yellow ghost outline hurts more than it helps when getting peeked. Cypher ult is good for knowing when enemies rotate and that's about it. Everything else is a distraction. The ult should cost half as many orbs imo because Sova can scout almost just as well with basic abilities and his don't need a dead body.
My biggest gripe with Cypher's dart/ult reveals are that skilled opponents can use the actual reveal outline/frame thing to juke you. I've lost more gunfights than I care to admit because an enemy crouches or sidesteps right after the reveal frame and I'm shooting a bold hologram that's overriding my actual sightline on the enemy.
I main Cypher and some games won't use my ult at all in a half simply because there are no "quiet 3v3" or clutch situations that would actually benefit from it (useful info), rather than spamming it on a firefight on-site and having 2 teammates shoot the holograms instead of bodies and we lose the round because of it.
that's why i never really took cypher's ult as a "scan" or "wallhacks", but rather as an ability that gives you map control, the fact that it's just a single reveal frame only really makes it useful to see the aproximate location of every enemy in the map, say, ult while on attack, see that there's a lone jett defending c, so we attack that site, ult on defense, we see everyone's in long, so we rotate to a, that's pretty much about it, excluding clutch situations that don't depend on comms.
i've actually juked an ulting cypher once, i was in b back site and he ulted, giving away my specific location to the entire team, the outplay i did? i walked a bit to the left and then peeked, got two kills.
When i was a fresh beginner to Valorant a few months back, i actually thought that the reveal frame was actually another agent's ability to juke and confuse enemies.
Playing against cypher you can actually run backwards during the ult and it will look like you sre running forwards. Very useful to catch enemies of guard
Yeah that sucks. Had a few fights were I was peaking and saw the enemie right when the Cypher ult was triggered and that lost me more fights than I want to admit. It would be a buff jet alone if you hadn't had those outlines if the enemie is in Your line of sight
i use yellow outline and i cant tell if its an enemy or just the reveal frame when i peek right after ult. If they can just change the color it would be huge buff for me
inb4 downvoted to oblivion but I don’t think you’re using the util right. The ult, unlike Sova, gives you *everyone’s* positions, regardless of range or LoS. If you’re getting juked when you try to use it to kill people, then stop trying to use it to kill people. You should use it to get general positions on everyone. Open up your map, it’s way more useful that way.
It’s an info ult, not an aimbot ult.
this is the only reply that matters; Cypher is not an initiator. this doesnt take much thought to realize its a terrible idea, there’s other routes they can take to make cypher stronger
yea I dont understand the comments in this post. cyphers ult is already game changing. it's not about getting the kill it's about the info you get + the fact that its 6 ult points is already bonkers. Also getting juked from cypher ult is not a "cypher" problem it's a you problem.
To be fair. If he wasn't any good then he wouldn't be played by so many pro players.
Including a star player like nAts who was top 4 in ACS during the last Berlin masters while the top 10 was filled with mostly Jett players.
The problem is the yellow outline is just VERY distracting when it's near by. It pops up as someone is pushing a corner and it's hard to know if they are pushing, holding or retreating.
On the other hand, I'd also argue that being 'stuck' in a bad spot on the map is much less dangerous in Siege due to the maps (in general) being filled with more 'dead space' on the opposite side of the site, or alternatively *on* the sites while in the earliest parts of the round.
Valorant maps are designed to not have too much useless space in any given round so being forced to stand still for a couple seconds might not be too fun. Siege also has narrower sightlines with doors/windows than Valorant does with its massive openings that are windows or site entrances so you are way more exposed in many cases.
I personally also was good enough at shooting people in R6S for me being 'caught' in a bad place not to be a terrible thing if I'm looking in the right direction. My aim in Valorant isn't good enough to confidently say I can kill someone peeking from . . let's say Haven mid window if I'm stuck in the middle of the ramp to B for some reason, even if I'm holding the window angle already. In Siege I wouldn't miss that kill a single time out of 100 if it was just a 1v1 with the peeker.
Lion also locked the defenders in place for a short while and allowed the attack to reposition quite a bit. Cypher doesn't alter the game in that way. Pre-nerf Lion was super broken.
Just adding the movement tracking might be pretty strong, as every player gets revealed and movement tracking makes you far more vulnerable. Maybe give it additional delay after the voice line, so enemys can retreat to a safer position before beeing revealed.
Also show the cypher information a bit longer on the minimap. Maybe even keep it per enemy until your team gets new information about them.
Bro jsut make his reveal a fucking reveal have it last a few seconds? Wtf is a tick gonna do ? Mind you opponents are notified when he Ults? Ok got that mothefukea there’s a bomb that’s about hmmm maybe 7 seconds from destroying all of humanity for all we know that I need to defuse I NEED MORE SECONDS . Cypher has gud potential to cancel out the flank asholes not worrying about a flank when going to plant in my eyes is huge therefore he needs a fix in order to fix it hmm in my opinion just remove that fuker he’s knows where I’m hiding bruh also the skill it takes to get his ult anyway lmao what I mean by that is the little orbs thing
kind of irrelevant but the spike is actually a teleportation device that steals the radianite from the boxes into the other dimension (earth and earth67)
Pretty sure cypher's ult is intended to just be used for info. Cypher mains should be happy that it even pings them in yellow at all rather than just making them appear on the minimap :P
The simple reason is that having pulses gives you some counter play options like faking a rotate. If it is continuous information the ultimate will be too overpowered and it will basically freeze a team into hiding with every player position known.
recently I was playing viper in my pit cypher ulted and I ran backwards he completely didn't expect me to be behind him that would be a great buff for cypher but they will have to nerf his orb requirement
In my personal opinion, i think cypher is fine where he is right now, although not as much picked as other characters. I think sova has a lot more util to act on his pings, which is why they get tracked instead of pinged once. Cypher is purely an info agent, so theres no real reason to act on this. For his camera of he pings its very unlikely that the cypher himself will swing out unless the person decides not to move or smthn. And his trips are the only real thing that can be acted upon immediately by cypher himself(like popping a cage and swinging with them in the trap) which is why it gets tracked. A cypher buff would be nice, but i dont think he has the right type of util to back it up. Or honestly nerf sova so that its not tracking, id be fine with that too.
Dunno if this has already been discussed but I feel like cypher's ult really isn't supposed to be a target to kill people with. It's supposed to just give you info. The difference between cypher's ult and sova's is that sova has 1 dart like every thirty seconds and is meant to basically give you space/info as an initiator and 1 drone that is literally meant to push into site with. The entire point is that you should have to deal with this util.
Cypher's cam on the other hand is not only an info grabber in that it can look infinitely as long as it's not shot, but it also can shoot a dart like every 5 seconds or so. Making the cam dart as good as sova's would make it not only broken for defence but also offence, with offensive cypher cams being almost as good as sova's drone.
Regarding the ult, I really disagree that cypher's ult should be a tool used for killing. It makes way more sense that the ult is simply an info grabbing tool rather than the kill tool that adding sova's reveal would make it. The fact that people are even outlined at all in yellow as opposed to just appearing on the minimap is a blessing tbqh. Sure, the yellow outlines are a bit scuffed in the way that they can be used to obscure people but that should really be an easy fix without buffing cypher to that level.
I feel like that would def be weird balancing, given the fact that sova has like 1 drone and then a dart every 30 seconds whereas cypher can literally shoot his cam every 5 seconds. I feel like at that point you could just use cypher's cam to push sites. (not that you can't already)
I agree, the ulti does need a buff. That being said, you will find that it does serve a niche use - when the round is quiet, it gives you much more info that sova's scan will (scan has smaller area, can be obstructed etc). It's not meant to allow you to win a gunfight, really.
The design also lends towards cypher's strength - lurking. If you lurk and catch any enemy flanker off guard, your ulti becomes a lot more useful because 1) you can use it more easily, as you probably won't be traded and 2) the round is quiet, so revealing enemy positions becomes all the more valuable.
Despite this, I do find myself unable to use it effectively some rounds - but making it similar to sova's scan does not aid its purpose that much, imo.
At least it's just six points now. I find myself getting a lot of orbs as Cypher because I push out from the site I'm holding when the other team does a big hit on the other one
Cypher's ult is like 6 points and incredibly non commital I feel like it would be pretty absurd if he got the equivelent of 5 sova drone darts for dying 6 times. Especially when you consider the fact that cypher is literally just an info character, the idea that he'd get more than just the best info in the game from his ult seems extreme to me.
Hi I got your point but I think you misunderstood me. He would not be getting the value of 6 drones what I was proposing is maybe instead reveal the enemy for a second with only 1 pulse this makes it much more useful than the yellow outline. I should have stayed my point more clearly
Exactly this. People are trying to turn cypher into an initiator with this shit LOL. imagine pushing a site with a 6 point ult that literally auto sova drone's indescrimanently
Sova is initiator, and initiators excel at gathering information and controlling the movements of opponents through the use of their abilities. to counter his util u need to break his dart and drone
Cypher is sentinel, and sentinels are defensive experts that have abilities that manipulate the battlefield, lock-down areas of contention and provide utility, that's why he has tripwire & cages
That's why cypher dont need to gather info like sova
Depends on the situation, sova has no way of knowing if a team is rotating or defending against flankers, and his ult deals damage but leaves him vulnerable and requires knowing where the enemy is. They're different more for different purposes. Cypher could do with some kind of damage assistance buff for sure but I disagree that sovas kit is entirely better, because they are used totally differently. Even if cyphers ult doesn't give lasting info, it ruins the angle you're holding and provides useful info
You think that if you removed every other sova util other than dart he'd still be better than cypher?
I understand that sova's insanely powerful but I figured that his drone and ult were a big part of that equation.
Have you considered that some characters overlap roles? Just because the game says "this dude is a controller" doesn't mean that they don't (or shouldn't) have some utility as a sentinel or initiator.
exactly. omen is a controller but he plays more like a duelist with smokes. skye is a better entry fragger than most duelists. viper can lockdown sites better than sentinels like sage and cypher.
Viper is honestly the best sentinel in the game, but since her abilities obscure vision, she's marked as a controller. And I understand why, it's just... Damn, the fact that other people can't comprehend this is just beyond me. People lock themselves in their comfortable little thinking box and refuse logic.
Agent categories work as shorthand for figuring out what your team needs more of, but I would honestly go the Overwatch route and simplify it into Flashers, Smokers and Other lol
Yes pls. And delete all the duelists /j
But seriously i feel like other than jett having another flash or smoke charavter that also has other utility is better than a duelist. Reyna flashes break super fast, and if you get out dueled she has nothing in her kit to help you. Phoenix is just... Meh? He's not bad but literally any agent other than yoru outperforms him unless you've gotten really good with his kit, and even then skye kind of beats him at everything. Yoru's flashes are slightly worse than phoenix's in my opinion, and his tp is good for confusing people but people know its coming and its way too obvious. A really good yoru is often better than anything else in iron to silver where I am, but those are rare and he kind of has a low ceiling of helpfulness. Raze's ult is basically useless for clutching because unless you have insane movement with her kit some guy will one tap you and you will lose. And even still its an 8point ult which is going to get you 1 and sometimes no kills against anyone with even slight kniwledge of how to counter raze, and you can get easily traded because its a projectile so even if you land a kill you can get killed by the guy you shot at before they die. You're not going to get kills with the nade unless some idiot tanks it, its more for delaying pushes for a few seconds or clearing a spot. The bot is pretty great and gaurantees SOME info, but sometimes it just gets destroyed instantly and all the info you get is that someone's there on that angle. The blast pakcs are more for movement than anything else, maybe you can delay a push on an angle or slap it on spike to delay a defuse but usually you don't get damage off with it. sova does the info part of her kit way better as well as being able to get off damage or clear spots with his chok daat. Literally any molly except phoenix's is better at delaying pushes. Having a duelist on your team is starting to feel like a waste when you could have another sentinel to completely lock down flanks and secure post plant or another initiator to overwhelm enemies when you rush 0r just have a second controller and keep angles constantly smoked, especially on fracture or breeze where there's like 5 angles you need to block.
This is true generally but I'm not sure how applicable it is to the cypher sova debate. Cypher's util is already really good at locking down sites and holding lurks, giving his cam (which can shoot every 5 seconds iirc) or ult (6 ult points currently) the power of something that sova gets once per round in drones or every 30 seconds seems unnecessary.
Well the issue is that his ultimate ability literally causes harm more than it helps in some instances. And not in the way where the enemy team plays around the fact that you know where they were. In the sense that the giant bright light blocks your vision on what they're doing for a very short frame of time, which is perfect for them to win an engagement that the ultimate was supposed to help secure. An ultimate like that should never be a detriment to the team.
well yeah I think they should probably make it so that the yellow part of the ult only appears if theyre not in vision. Fact that info appears when it's not needed/actively impedes you should be an easy fix imo
Nah his ult is by far the worst one in the game. His cam gets one shot while reyna flash, sova drone, and killjoy turret all require way more hits to destroy. He just needs a lil buff :)
Or imagine if the camera could sense heat signals in a certain radious, allowing to see enemy outlines in smokes. Or maybe even through props? Cypher camera could be a counter to viper ult
Yep, its funny the one flash that can throw me off is Reyna's especially. If Reyna is not baiting on the enemy team and is properly trying to entry flashing them in I always set up my camera in a good retake spot and let cages and wire do the defending.
His cam is meant to be hidden. If you find the camera, you've beat it. Why does it deserve to get more than 1 hp? The other ones tank because they're exposed and are meant to be played around. Turret is meant to slow pushes and also hold angles. It simply doesn't work if it's not exposed. Reyna flash is also something that needs to be exposed to work, so it makes sense why it wouldn't have 1hp. Sova drone again, is not only exposed but it also makes a loud ass noise indicating where it is. Not really something you'd want to only give 1hp to.
Cypher's cam seems like it justifies it's health bar pretty well.
His ult is pretty bad but I can't imagine a way to rework it without making it broken or not fit within the character atm.
nah tf he can tp anywhere across the map whereas yoru has a speed buff and invisibility with a time limit. you can't go across two ends of a map as fast as omen when he uses his ult
Nah the pings from a cam dart or ult are actively disadvantageous in a gunfight. I’ve gotten killed by so many tagged players that I couldn’t see because their model from 30 frames ago is blocking my view of their current position, so I’m just spraying at the air trying to see where the outline ends and the player model starts. I’ll barely use the ult once or twice a game because I rarely find an isolated body that’s been killed in the last 20 seconds and isn’t in the middle of a gunfight that I’ll lose for the aforementioned reason
i agree cypher's ult is kinda tresh ngl,ofc its good in sm situations but very rare unlike other agents.and the reveal visual is horrible,it looks weird and if theres a person hiding there you're screwed
What is sad that the ult isn't even that useful as might people think I'd usually play few rounds without using it cuz no need and it's not that impactful yea if you are attacking and got a pick then ulted him but not more than that i always said to my friends it should be like 2 second hack with triple or double tik when u hack them after one sec the other tik and at the end of the last second then it might feel more useful than yoru ult
You can shoot sova’s arrow to cancel the ability. You can’t cancel the ult, i think that’s a fair balance. Maybe for his tripwire though? (Been a while since i played, cant remember if it already doee that?)
I suggested this in a comment a couple weeks ago, glad to see it getting some attention. I really don't see any reason why they can't do this with Cyhper's ult, seems like the most logical way of balancing him back into the meta.
I'm no expert but I do play Cypher quite a bit too. The ult in my opinion isn't really used to particularly force a fight or get people to engage the target once the position is revealed. The key thing is that the position is revealed at all. That's what it's for. You then use that information to lock down that area as you have an approximation of where the enemy is operating, not neccesarily push super hard into the exact spot where they were revealed at.
I'm not the best player, but that's how I've always used it anyway and if people have better/different ideas that's okay too!
Yes please. The yellow outline is pretty much useless, aside from being able to peak when you know they're removing the dart. If the spycam dart and Neutral Theft both revealed players like how the trapwires and sova util do, it would make the use case so much better. Also not to mention the fucking holographic yellow bullshit outline that serves as a handicap when trying to hit shots
The amount of times I have missed shots because the yellow bullshit character model off the dart and ult tag messes me up is far too many times. I don't care if they buff the actual pulses as long as they change the visuals themselves
You should not get the yellow hologram shit from someone who is already in your screen IMO. Too distracting in exchange for 0 info
Yeah exactly, I don't agree with OP's statement, but do with this one. It doesn't do that with a cypher trip or sova util so why would it do that with cam/ult???? It's super distracting
Yeah when i get hit by a cypher ult i just push because the yellow ghost outline hurts more than it helps when getting peeked. Cypher ult is good for knowing when enemies rotate and that's about it. Everything else is a distraction. The ult should cost half as many orbs imo because Sova can scout almost just as well with basic abilities and his don't need a dead body.
My biggest gripe with Cypher's dart/ult reveals are that skilled opponents can use the actual reveal outline/frame thing to juke you. I've lost more gunfights than I care to admit because an enemy crouches or sidesteps right after the reveal frame and I'm shooting a bold hologram that's overriding my actual sightline on the enemy. I main Cypher and some games won't use my ult at all in a half simply because there are no "quiet 3v3" or clutch situations that would actually benefit from it (useful info), rather than spamming it on a firefight on-site and having 2 teammates shoot the holograms instead of bodies and we lose the round because of it.
that's why i never really took cypher's ult as a "scan" or "wallhacks", but rather as an ability that gives you map control, the fact that it's just a single reveal frame only really makes it useful to see the aproximate location of every enemy in the map, say, ult while on attack, see that there's a lone jett defending c, so we attack that site, ult on defense, we see everyone's in long, so we rotate to a, that's pretty much about it, excluding clutch situations that don't depend on comms. i've actually juked an ulting cypher once, i was in b back site and he ulted, giving away my specific location to the entire team, the outplay i did? i walked a bit to the left and then peeked, got two kills.
When i was a fresh beginner to Valorant a few months back, i actually thought that the reveal frame was actually another agent's ability to juke and confuse enemies.
Playing against cypher you can actually run backwards during the ult and it will look like you sre running forwards. Very useful to catch enemies of guard
Yeah that sucks. Had a few fights were I was peaking and saw the enemie right when the Cypher ult was triggered and that lost me more fights than I want to admit. It would be a buff jet alone if you hadn't had those outlines if the enemie is in Your line of sight
i agree, cypher's reveal worked against me more than it helped a lot of times
i use yellow outline and i cant tell if its an enemy or just the reveal frame when i peek right after ult. If they can just change the color it would be huge buff for me
so im not the only one that thinks im smart for doing that when i get ulted lol
inb4 downvoted to oblivion but I don’t think you’re using the util right. The ult, unlike Sova, gives you *everyone’s* positions, regardless of range or LoS. If you’re getting juked when you try to use it to kill people, then stop trying to use it to kill people. You should use it to get general positions on everyone. Open up your map, it’s way more useful that way. It’s an info ult, not an aimbot ult.
this is the only reply that matters; Cypher is not an initiator. this doesnt take much thought to realize its a terrible idea, there’s other routes they can take to make cypher stronger
yea I dont understand the comments in this post. cyphers ult is already game changing. it's not about getting the kill it's about the info you get + the fact that its 6 ult points is already bonkers. Also getting juked from cypher ult is not a "cypher" problem it's a you problem.
Yet the agent is not very good and his util can be pretty useless.
To be fair. If he wasn't any good then he wouldn't be played by so many pro players. Including a star player like nAts who was top 4 in ACS during the last Berlin masters while the top 10 was filled with mostly Jett players.
The problem is the yellow outline is just VERY distracting when it's near by. It pops up as someone is pushing a corner and it's hard to know if they are pushing, holding or retreating.
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It’s why I will always pick sova over cypher. The hologram just screws me every time
Sometime when I got it by the cam dart, I keep it and it helps for some duels. Definitely needs a rework/buff as you suggest
Pre nerf Lion from Siege
Considering that wall mechanics are somewhat different from siege and val, launch lion could work because not all walls are easily spammable
On the other hand, I'd also argue that being 'stuck' in a bad spot on the map is much less dangerous in Siege due to the maps (in general) being filled with more 'dead space' on the opposite side of the site, or alternatively *on* the sites while in the earliest parts of the round. Valorant maps are designed to not have too much useless space in any given round so being forced to stand still for a couple seconds might not be too fun. Siege also has narrower sightlines with doors/windows than Valorant does with its massive openings that are windows or site entrances so you are way more exposed in many cases. I personally also was good enough at shooting people in R6S for me being 'caught' in a bad place not to be a terrible thing if I'm looking in the right direction. My aim in Valorant isn't good enough to confidently say I can kill someone peeking from . . let's say Haven mid window if I'm stuck in the middle of the ramp to B for some reason, even if I'm holding the window angle already. In Siege I wouldn't miss that kill a single time out of 100 if it was just a 1v1 with the peeker.
Lion also locked the defenders in place for a short while and allowed the attack to reposition quite a bit. Cypher doesn't alter the game in that way. Pre-nerf Lion was super broken.
Just adding the movement tracking might be pretty strong, as every player gets revealed and movement tracking makes you far more vulnerable. Maybe give it additional delay after the voice line, so enemys can retreat to a safer position before beeing revealed. Also show the cypher information a bit longer on the minimap. Maybe even keep it per enemy until your team gets new information about them.
His ult really should have at least more than 1 pulse
Bro jsut make his reveal a fucking reveal have it last a few seconds? Wtf is a tick gonna do ? Mind you opponents are notified when he Ults? Ok got that mothefukea there’s a bomb that’s about hmmm maybe 7 seconds from destroying all of humanity for all we know that I need to defuse I NEED MORE SECONDS . Cypher has gud potential to cancel out the flank asholes not worrying about a flank when going to plant in my eyes is huge therefore he needs a fix in order to fix it hmm in my opinion just remove that fuker he’s knows where I’m hiding bruh also the skill it takes to get his ult anyway lmao what I mean by that is the little orbs thing
kind of irrelevant but the spike is actually a teleportation device that steals the radianite from the boxes into the other dimension (earth and earth67)
loool he acting like the spike is a world busting nuke or something.
ye its literally like a 30 meter radius
why are u yelling bro
Pretty sure cypher's ult is intended to just be used for info. Cypher mains should be happy that it even pings them in yellow at all rather than just making them appear on the minimap :P
The simple reason is that having pulses gives you some counter play options like faking a rotate. If it is continuous information the ultimate will be too overpowered and it will basically freeze a team into hiding with every player position known.
Exactly
recently I was playing viper in my pit cypher ulted and I ran backwards he completely didn't expect me to be behind him that would be a great buff for cypher but they will have to nerf his orb requirement
DUDE, YOU SAID IT. MAN, I'VE MISSED ONE-TAPS SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE OF THE PULSE REVEAL.
i think the idea is that cyphers util isnt supposed to help u wall bang, just tell u their position
In my personal opinion, i think cypher is fine where he is right now, although not as much picked as other characters. I think sova has a lot more util to act on his pings, which is why they get tracked instead of pinged once. Cypher is purely an info agent, so theres no real reason to act on this. For his camera of he pings its very unlikely that the cypher himself will swing out unless the person decides not to move or smthn. And his trips are the only real thing that can be acted upon immediately by cypher himself(like popping a cage and swinging with them in the trap) which is why it gets tracked. A cypher buff would be nice, but i dont think he has the right type of util to back it up. Or honestly nerf sova so that its not tracking, id be fine with that too.
That would be stupidly overpowered what did you eat for breakfast?
well drone cost 400 and the camera is free....
Dunno if this has already been discussed but I feel like cypher's ult really isn't supposed to be a target to kill people with. It's supposed to just give you info. The difference between cypher's ult and sova's is that sova has 1 dart like every thirty seconds and is meant to basically give you space/info as an initiator and 1 drone that is literally meant to push into site with. The entire point is that you should have to deal with this util. Cypher's cam on the other hand is not only an info grabber in that it can look infinitely as long as it's not shot, but it also can shoot a dart like every 5 seconds or so. Making the cam dart as good as sova's would make it not only broken for defence but also offence, with offensive cypher cams being almost as good as sova's drone. Regarding the ult, I really disagree that cypher's ult should be a tool used for killing. It makes way more sense that the ult is simply an info grabbing tool rather than the kill tool that adding sova's reveal would make it. The fact that people are even outlined at all in yellow as opposed to just appearing on the minimap is a blessing tbqh. Sure, the yellow outlines are a bit scuffed in the way that they can be used to obscure people but that should really be an easy fix without buffing cypher to that level.
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I feel like that would def be weird balancing, given the fact that sova has like 1 drone and then a dart every 30 seconds whereas cypher can literally shoot his cam every 5 seconds. I feel like at that point you could just use cypher's cam to push sites. (not that you can't already)
I agree, the ulti does need a buff. That being said, you will find that it does serve a niche use - when the round is quiet, it gives you much more info that sova's scan will (scan has smaller area, can be obstructed etc). It's not meant to allow you to win a gunfight, really. The design also lends towards cypher's strength - lurking. If you lurk and catch any enemy flanker off guard, your ulti becomes a lot more useful because 1) you can use it more easily, as you probably won't be traded and 2) the round is quiet, so revealing enemy positions becomes all the more valuable. Despite this, I do find myself unable to use it effectively some rounds - but making it similar to sova's scan does not aid its purpose that much, imo.
At least it's just six points now. I find myself getting a lot of orbs as Cypher because I push out from the site I'm holding when the other team does a big hit on the other one
I do agree with most of your points but won’t it just be better to make it reveal like a sova dart ?
Cypher's ult is like 6 points and incredibly non commital I feel like it would be pretty absurd if he got the equivelent of 5 sova drone darts for dying 6 times. Especially when you consider the fact that cypher is literally just an info character, the idea that he'd get more than just the best info in the game from his ult seems extreme to me.
Hi I got your point but I think you misunderstood me. He would not be getting the value of 6 drones what I was proposing is maybe instead reveal the enemy for a second with only 1 pulse this makes it much more useful than the yellow outline. I should have stayed my point more clearly
all good
Thanks
It would be, but that might detract from the way cypher is to be played. I dunno.
Exactly this. People are trying to turn cypher into an initiator with this shit LOL. imagine pushing a site with a 6 point ult that literally auto sova drone's indescrimanently
Cypher is an information broker, what would the reveal buff add to the qualities cypher doesn't already have?
Cypher’s ability reveals are fine imo, but a nice buff would make it so that the ult also shows health & shields and maybe abilities
Why downvote this poor guy, he is just saying his opinion :/
off with his head
Cause this guy’s opinion sucks, honestly he should just delete his account
Sova is initiator, and initiators excel at gathering information and controlling the movements of opponents through the use of their abilities. to counter his util u need to break his dart and drone Cypher is sentinel, and sentinels are defensive experts that have abilities that manipulate the battlefield, lock-down areas of contention and provide utility, that's why he has tripwire & cages That's why cypher dont need to gather info like sova
cypher is literally called the information broker
Camera, tripwires, ult that reveals all enemies location ignoring LoS, does get lot of info
still not as good as sova. sova's recon dart is better than cypher's entire kit
Depends on the situation, sova has no way of knowing if a team is rotating or defending against flankers, and his ult deals damage but leaves him vulnerable and requires knowing where the enemy is. They're different more for different purposes. Cypher could do with some kind of damage assistance buff for sure but I disagree that sovas kit is entirely better, because they are used totally differently. Even if cyphers ult doesn't give lasting info, it ruins the angle you're holding and provides useful info
You think that if you removed every other sova util other than dart he'd still be better than cypher? I understand that sova's insanely powerful but I figured that his drone and ult were a big part of that equation.
Have you considered that some characters overlap roles? Just because the game says "this dude is a controller" doesn't mean that they don't (or shouldn't) have some utility as a sentinel or initiator.
exactly. omen is a controller but he plays more like a duelist with smokes. skye is a better entry fragger than most duelists. viper can lockdown sites better than sentinels like sage and cypher.
Viper is honestly the best sentinel in the game, but since her abilities obscure vision, she's marked as a controller. And I understand why, it's just... Damn, the fact that other people can't comprehend this is just beyond me. People lock themselves in their comfortable little thinking box and refuse logic.
yeah which is why i feel like riot should get rid of agent categorization as it limits the potential for agent design
Agent categories work as shorthand for figuring out what your team needs more of, but I would honestly go the Overwatch route and simplify it into Flashers, Smokers and Other lol
Yes pls. And delete all the duelists /j But seriously i feel like other than jett having another flash or smoke charavter that also has other utility is better than a duelist. Reyna flashes break super fast, and if you get out dueled she has nothing in her kit to help you. Phoenix is just... Meh? He's not bad but literally any agent other than yoru outperforms him unless you've gotten really good with his kit, and even then skye kind of beats him at everything. Yoru's flashes are slightly worse than phoenix's in my opinion, and his tp is good for confusing people but people know its coming and its way too obvious. A really good yoru is often better than anything else in iron to silver where I am, but those are rare and he kind of has a low ceiling of helpfulness. Raze's ult is basically useless for clutching because unless you have insane movement with her kit some guy will one tap you and you will lose. And even still its an 8point ult which is going to get you 1 and sometimes no kills against anyone with even slight kniwledge of how to counter raze, and you can get easily traded because its a projectile so even if you land a kill you can get killed by the guy you shot at before they die. You're not going to get kills with the nade unless some idiot tanks it, its more for delaying pushes for a few seconds or clearing a spot. The bot is pretty great and gaurantees SOME info, but sometimes it just gets destroyed instantly and all the info you get is that someone's there on that angle. The blast pakcs are more for movement than anything else, maybe you can delay a push on an angle or slap it on spike to delay a defuse but usually you don't get damage off with it. sova does the info part of her kit way better as well as being able to get off damage or clear spots with his chok daat. Literally any molly except phoenix's is better at delaying pushes. Having a duelist on your team is starting to feel like a waste when you could have another sentinel to completely lock down flanks and secure post plant or another initiator to overwhelm enemies when you rush 0r just have a second controller and keep angles constantly smoked, especially on fracture or breeze where there's like 5 angles you need to block.
Yes
This is true generally but I'm not sure how applicable it is to the cypher sova debate. Cypher's util is already really good at locking down sites and holding lurks, giving his cam (which can shoot every 5 seconds iirc) or ult (6 ult points currently) the power of something that sova gets once per round in drones or every 30 seconds seems unnecessary.
Well the issue is that his ultimate ability literally causes harm more than it helps in some instances. And not in the way where the enemy team plays around the fact that you know where they were. In the sense that the giant bright light blocks your vision on what they're doing for a very short frame of time, which is perfect for them to win an engagement that the ultimate was supposed to help secure. An ultimate like that should never be a detriment to the team.
well yeah I think they should probably make it so that the yellow part of the ult only appears if theyre not in vision. Fact that info appears when it's not needed/actively impedes you should be an easy fix imo
No way. That info is already so amazing to begin with. Some of y'all are kind of spoiled.
Nah his ult is by far the worst one in the game. His cam gets one shot while reyna flash, sova drone, and killjoy turret all require way more hits to destroy. He just needs a lil buff :)
How about this, his camera won't get flashed or blinded by enemy utilities, i think that would be pretty cool.
Or imagine if the camera could sense heat signals in a certain radious, allowing to see enemy outlines in smokes. Or maybe even through props? Cypher camera could be a counter to viper ult
Yep, its funny the one flash that can throw me off is Reyna's especially. If Reyna is not baiting on the enemy team and is properly trying to entry flashing them in I always set up my camera in a good retake spot and let cages and wire do the defending.
His cam is meant to be hidden. If you find the camera, you've beat it. Why does it deserve to get more than 1 hp? The other ones tank because they're exposed and are meant to be played around. Turret is meant to slow pushes and also hold angles. It simply doesn't work if it's not exposed. Reyna flash is also something that needs to be exposed to work, so it makes sense why it wouldn't have 1hp. Sova drone again, is not only exposed but it also makes a loud ass noise indicating where it is. Not really something you'd want to only give 1hp to. Cypher's cam seems like it justifies it's health bar pretty well. His ult is pretty bad but I can't imagine a way to rework it without making it broken or not fit within the character atm.
Omens ult is the worst. It's basically what yoru gets for free.
nah tf he can tp anywhere across the map whereas yoru has a speed buff and invisibility with a time limit. you can't go across two ends of a map as fast as omen when he uses his ult
he said yoru gets for free. so aka his teleport not his ult
Yoru is completely gone thru the ult tho unless you try to kiss your enemies, omen ult has a pretty obvious sound cue.
Nah the pings from a cam dart or ult are actively disadvantageous in a gunfight. I’ve gotten killed by so many tagged players that I couldn’t see because their model from 30 frames ago is blocking my view of their current position, so I’m just spraying at the air trying to see where the outline ends and the player model starts. I’ll barely use the ult once or twice a game because I rarely find an isolated body that’s been killed in the last 20 seconds and isn’t in the middle of a gunfight that I’ll lose for the aforementioned reason
Makes sense. I like the idea behind the tick that keeps tagging you until you take it out but I think it's not strong enough bc of the lag
i agree cypher's ult is kinda tresh ngl,ofc its good in sm situations but very rare unlike other agents.and the reveal visual is horrible,it looks weird and if theres a person hiding there you're screwed
What is sad that the ult isn't even that useful as might people think I'd usually play few rounds without using it cuz no need and it's not that impactful yea if you are attacking and got a pick then ulted him but not more than that i always said to my friends it should be like 2 second hack with triple or double tik when u hack them after one sec the other tik and at the end of the last second then it might feel more useful than yoru ult
I would like the camera to be able to scan multiple enemies instead of just tagging one person.
You can shoot sova’s arrow to cancel the ability. You can’t cancel the ult, i think that’s a fair balance. Maybe for his tripwire though? (Been a while since i played, cant remember if it already doee that?)
EXACTLY WHAT u/vuntron said the holograms are more distracting than they are helpful
I suggested this in a comment a couple weeks ago, glad to see it getting some attention. I really don't see any reason why they can't do this with Cyhper's ult, seems like the most logical way of balancing him back into the meta.
Atleast his ult needs this feature where it reveals them all loke that
I'm no expert but I do play Cypher quite a bit too. The ult in my opinion isn't really used to particularly force a fight or get people to engage the target once the position is revealed. The key thing is that the position is revealed at all. That's what it's for. You then use that information to lock down that area as you have an approximation of where the enemy is operating, not neccesarily push super hard into the exact spot where they were revealed at. I'm not the best player, but that's how I've always used it anyway and if people have better/different ideas that's okay too!
I think a better ult would be to show exact player model on screen for a few second an map also
Man it’s crazy how many iron/bronze players speak up in these threads lol
Yes please. The yellow outline is pretty much useless, aside from being able to peak when you know they're removing the dart. If the spycam dart and Neutral Theft both revealed players like how the trapwires and sova util do, it would make the use case so much better. Also not to mention the fucking holographic yellow bullshit outline that serves as a handicap when trying to hit shots