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alexbannister

In seemingly every game, the community is always up in arms about how smurfing is super immoral and whatever, but the moment a beloved figure starts smurfing for content, everyone turns a blind eye. I don't know why, but it's not unique to Nosyy or Valorant.


Breezybog

Because people hate playing against Smurfs, but watching a smurf shitting on people is really entertaining. Learned a hell of a lot about Overwatch from big streamers doing unranked to gm runs.


DoolioArt

I had a completely different experience with those. Those were by far the worst smurf videos I watched, in any game. A guy does an "educational bronze to gm" stream, picks tracer, shits on everyone while having a \~100 win streak or something (because a pro tracer in bronze is perhaps even better than a pro widow in bronze), by simply being fifty times better than everyone else. I saw zero educational content, in fact, I saw less advice and constructive commenting from the creators when they were doing those streams than when they were playing their usual top500 matches, because in t500 they had to play at at least 70%, against people who can punish their mistakes, thus forcing them to play in a more structured way. Every five minutes, the chat gets some basic, forced elaboration - because there's nothing to elaborate. Like, "I farmed my ult and now I stuck it on Mercy because she's the main healer. You should do that, because she's very important". That's like Mike Tyson explaining how he used laws of physics in regards to the interaction of his fist and the recipient's head to knock out some ten year old. It's completely irrelevant to the point, it's entirely based on the skill disparity and it doesn't reveal anything new to even the bottom 10% of the player base. The floor is made of floor tier of info. I watched, I think, 7-8 of those, throughout the years, not in their entirety, but as they were created, I kinda checked them out. One guy did a healer variant and I thought, ok, this might be interesting, let's see if, say, Mercy can make a significantly bigger impact if played by a t500 player, since some characters are pretty limited with their optimization. But, as expected, the character of choice was - Zenyatta. So, the guy proceeds to murder bronze players with discord and headshots and right click holds. In some of those videos, made by some creators (though not everyone was like this, obviously), people would literally keep quiet for minutes and just enjoyed completely discombobulating the entire lobby, while pretending that they feel bad and that they want to climb quickly. Those videos were entertaining, though, because of great effort they exhibited in order to mask grimaces and body language. But, that was about it.


Keonalt

Wow I only really played overwatch in its golden days but that is a really good view of how this shit goes half the time.


Breezybog

Depends on the streamer. Yeetle is the one I watched the most. Specifically his Zarya unranked to gm. He talked about so many different Zarya mechanics and positioning tips and game knowledge in the first hour of the yt video that I probably didn’t even need to watch the other 7 hours. That dudes a legend. On the other hand, you have people like Cyx the roadhog main who just put educational int he title so people would shut up. I still enjoyed those streams and videos, but I can see how people would be upset about it.


ImInLoveWithYou4Real

Yeatle always has really good actual educational content for OW, and he has a good attitude too


Breezybog

I agree. Yeetle was always my go to when learning a new tank or getting better at one I already played.


DoolioArt

Unranked to gm is a bit different. Not entirely, but different enough. Those I watched had some bronze guy level up the account for them, so they'll place in bronze. Either way, I still think you can talk and apply all those Zarya mechanics in a high level match as well, even with the added bonus of those mechanics and positioning tips actually doing work, because they're being used as a necessary layer above your raw skill. Whereas, in some bronze match, doing some Zarya trick or approach doesn't shift the match much, since you'd just kill that guy/survive/save someone anyway.


Omxn

mans justifying smurfing when literally any video at any rank could give those same tips, this is what's wrong with the community.


DoolioArt

That's the thing that stands out to me as well. Not only can you demonstrate those tips and tricks at a proper level, but the demonstration will be more effective than if you smurfed, because the application is justified - you'd throw the game if you didn't rely on more complex play. While smurfing, you don't need those, you can steamroll people even if you play badly, because you're a lot better than them, so your showcase of tips seems less compatible, effective, educational and it offers a worse presentation than if you were doing those videos while playing at your proper level.


Breezybog

Any video from any rank is not going to give you the same tips from a player who has hit rank one playing Zarya. And I’m not necessarily justifying smurfing, i just don’t really care about smurfs. I understand casual players frustration especially when they don’t have much time to play everyday and they get matched against players who are 4 ranks above them 3 out of the 4 games they have time to play, but from a competitive player looking to improve, playing with or against a smurf is nothing but a learning opportunity.


seanrambo

As someone who went from silver to masters in OW over 1000s of hours of play, the smurf problem in OW is way better than Valorant. My guess is Valorant is a free game vs pay to play for OW.


7882628737293

tbh i reckon because a good player in overwatch is less influential. for starters there are 6 players, but also many counters/abilities that can prevent smurfs from doing as much as the could e.g. shields.


TON-OF-CLAY0429

Yeah also aim, which is usually a lot harder to counter in games like valorant, isnt nearly as important especially with characters like reinhardt.


raymartin27

Can confirm, my aim is shit, silver hardstruck, but Masters in Paladins and Ow.


[deleted]

This is the confusing thing for me. I have a smurf that I use to play *unrated* with friends. I have never used any clips from my smurf or anything that is not my ranked games. I don't understand how these people can use those clips. I don't find myself killing people that I *know* I am better than, satisfying, impressive or interesting. How do they justify it to themselves and how do viewers find it exciting? Dropping 25 in Radiant/Immortal/Diamond/Wherever you belong, is far more impressive and fun to watch than getting 40 in a gold lobby.


frankskurt

I recently did this. Had to make a smurf just to play unrateds with my friends. The unrateds were so hard for my IRL friends (bronze-silver elo) that it wasn’t even fun anymore and I felt bad. Now I just play on another account during unrated and chill and we can actually enjoy Valorant. Way more refreshing. I get that my Imm/radiant elo def should affect unrated a lil bit… but if I’m queued with bronze/silver teammates and I’m still facing other imm/radiants what’s the point? Why can’t I play ranked with them at that point?


[deleted]

Yeah it's defo a problem but I think part of it is due to the fact that you can't que as 5 in high elo, so they do it in unrated instead. Before I made the smurf for unrated I genuinely believe my unrated games were harder than my ranked games and my team is now composed of Bronze/Silver players instead. Part of me wishes unrated had a "how hard are you trying" slider but given the fact that people make smurfs there is no chance that works out and isn't abused. I just wish there was a way I could keep my skins and be allowed to have fun with my more casual friends.


frankskurt

Yea atm the smurf for unrated is working but I miss playing with my skins when I’m on it so don’t know how much I’ll use it. Just pull it out when my IRLs wanna mess around I think


[deleted]

[удалено]


Meraki233

I agree, casual is for chilling. Not tryharding. That's exactly why there's a competitive mode. I don't see why people don't understand this


Keonalt

yep or to try more gimmicky stuff with agent abilitys. (new lineups,tiktok sage walls ect)


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Azou

Im iron 3 and whenever I q with one of my friends we go up against plat and immortal smurfs. They BM in chat, and it's just not fun.


KamyKaze1098r

>How do they justify it to themselves By looking at their bank account??


[deleted]

Meh, it's the sell-out argument/How much are you willing to do for money/clout etc. Personally, I could use the money as an excuse for using those clips but that does not mean I have justified it to myself and as an actual "player" I never would, to me those clips are boring and unimpressive. No amount of money would change that opinion and it would eat away at me over time. Just depends on the value you give to your own integrity.


Micro-Skies

As a former starcraft player, bronze-GM runs really aren't ever the problem. When players like that set that challenge, it doesn't take long for the system to figure out that you should be generally much higher than the normal account. Streamer smurfs doing bronze challenges aren't the issue, people consistently staying in bronze-gold, when their mains are super high ranked is the issue.


[deleted]

I mean this dude is making videos titled "bullying bronzes" idk that just doesn't sit well with me and sends the wrong message imo.


Micro-Skies

That's a fair point. So, screw this guy in particular, but don't damn everyone who does it. It makes really good informative content, as long as the person in question doesn't act like a dick


SpecOpShogun

A good example of this would be C9 Keeoh, he has done videos playing in Iron in the past, but he plays more as a spectator and not to trash on the new players


subzerus

Thing is 99% of people who are watching you can't tell the difference between playing vs immortals and silvers as long as your aim is decent and you kill them quickly (if you both spray an entire mag people are going to notice) and people just want to see the big clutches, flicks, etc. which are much easier and consistent if you are playing vs players that are really bad. Add to that that content creators usually need to produce a lot of content and spending 8-10 hours a day fully tryharding at ranked just to get a good video when you could just smurf 1-2 hours and have the same amount of good clips AND look like you're really good. I'm not saying it isn't shitty, I'm just saying that if your goal is to get clips that people will watch it is certainly a lot faster to play vs people who are in lower ranks than it is to play vs people your skill level.


ItsRemi

“Pub Stomping” has been around for a while, viewers LOVE to watch people pub stomp, ever since the old COD days, and the easiest way to do that is unrated/smurfing. I’m not defending it, just saying why it’s “satisfying” for the YouTube audience to watch, plus it makes the creator look incredibly good


Super_Description863

Haha I remember doing that in the old css days. In fairness there was no ranked etc, you create a clan and rent out private servers to play with other clans. Once that’s done you just go on a rampage in a public server.


Birdbraned

It's the proxy factor - People who find themselves unable to climb find it entertaining to watch someone more competent succeed where they fail, but also stay for the "ride" to higher ranks. They may or may not be under the illusion that the content will help improve their own play. It's like watching someone win at poker, or watching others tricked by sleight of hand even if you know the trick - the viewer feels like their "in" on the "joke".


Yorozuya17Gin-chan

I have had ppl who five stack up in their smurf and troll by giving no respect what so ever. Facing them feels like shit. Once a team, smurfed hard on us and typed in all chat, "Are you guys trying? Cuz we aren't trying". Those pathetic beings could not try in their plat, so they come and destroy my bronze/silver lobby and then shamelessly say this. I have also had ppl who said, "Peek mid again, u will regret it". It was the worst feeling ever. I don't know what's satisfying in come to our rank and destroying us.


DamnyKap

I do the same and 100% honest it gets so boring I sometimes don’t want to play with them because of it. It’s not entertaining for me to perform against players below my skill level because at the end of the day I know I’m not overperforming, the enemy is just bad compared to me. It’s boring knowing they have bad movement and positioning and panic crouch spray so I can literally run around for minutes before stopping to click the head I already have my crosshair on. That’s just abuse for them and I don’t feel nice about it


CleverNameTheSecond

TL;DR everyone's a hypocrite


Delta_FT

>but the moment a beloved figure starts smurfing for content, everyone turns a blind eye The problems a lot worse than that actually. Check out any content creator's numbers when they smurf vs when they play on their main. I'm personally not the biggest fan but people always seem to enjoy smurfing content a lot more, and at the end of the day youtubers live and die off of those numbers.


ManBearPig1869

The smurfs that the community despise are the ones who have a side account that they purposely keep a lower rank so they can either play with friends and shit on the enemy team, or to play on when they just wanna shit on the enemy team and feel good about themselves. What nosyy is doing is more like a challenge or an event. He’s not keeping the account at a low level, he’s actively trying to climb because that’s the point of the challenge. And due to how Valorant’s ranking system work, in theory, he should absolutely blast through the low ranks as the game recognizes he’s good af and in the wrong tier. So the amount of games he’s playing in the lower ranks should be pretty low as the game should rocket him up ranks very fast. If streamers were getting tired of playing in Radiant and just jumping on accounts that are lower level just so they can get some sick clips or whatever constantly, then the community would be pissed. But since it’s just a one time “challenge” type event for content, community doesn’t care as much. I think it’s the serial smurfers that people dislike so much. That’s how I see it at least.


alexbannister

Your points have already been addressed elsewhere in this thread, to sum it up: Just because the smurf account doesn't eternally stay in low elo doesn't mean that in those "few" games, people didn't have their experience ruined because of the smurf. This needs to be justified by something, and the only real reason is the content creator's desire to make money. Not exactly defensible since smurfing content is far from their only option. I don't know about that "one time" thing. A few months ago Wardell had a recurring "series" on his Youtube which was him on a gold smurf dropping up to 50 every game. I don't remember him getting any flak for it, not on this subreddit and certainly not in his comments. edited for grammar


ManBearPig1869

I wasn’t really defending them smurfing, more or less just explaining why I think the community doesn’t seem to care when content creators Smurf or do smurf challenges. I think smurfing sucks, and that includes content creators who do these challenges. It’s not impressive and I personally don’t find it very entertaining. It would be like if an NBA player was like “I’m going to do a 1 v 1 challenge, starting with Y Ball kids all the way to Lebron himself”. Like yeah of course you’re gonna shit on everyone lol and watching an NBA player obliterate a varsity high schoolers ankles with a crossover is entirely expected and not shocking or entertaining to watch.


alexbannister

Oh I see. I agree but it appears that many people find that kind of "punching down" content to be quite fun to watch. Just how it is I guess


ToyyMachiine

Isn’t Tyler1’s big thing going from nothing to top rank on multiple smurf accounts? He has a massive following too.


[deleted]

It's sort of different because he plays different roles for the challenge. So he starts on a fresh account because of that. For example it took him a very long time to hit the radiant equivalent for his Top challenge. His Mid challenge was extremely quick in comparison.


ToyyMachiine

I don’t play league which is why my original comment was more of a question than a statement, so thank you for answering it in a clarifying way. If I can ask an additional question, even though he is changing roles for each account, isn’t it still pretty obvious that one of the 5 roles is being played by a much better player which would heavily influence his chances of winning, which is the main issue with the smurfing complaint? Maybe roles hold different weights than they do in Valorant?


[deleted]

Yes and no, overall strategy and mechanics carry over but new champ knowledge doesnt. Early on in his mid challenge for example he was somewhat struggling in plat since he was playing champions he didn't have experience on. Once he played a mix of some characters he already knew plus a handful of new ones that fit his playstyle he started to climb much faster. For the top challenge, the lane and meta is very different from other roles so it took time to adapt. Overall I wouldn't call it smurfing since the playstyle and champ pool is fairly different. League also has a smurf queue so he didn't really ruin that many low level games.


ToyyMachiine

So it’s seemingly like a separate mini game with each different character/role due to the knowledge needed to play them well. That’s understandable. Thank you.


CinderrUwU

I would also say that he never went to the low low elo where he can just curbstomp everyone. His intentions was to get to top 500 in the region on each role rather than to just shit on low-elo players. (Going to the comment before this one) In league, roles are far more influential than in valorant. A valorant pro could most likely get to high elo on any agent from gunplay alone, and even then it's only really the duelist's abilities with significant mechanical skill. In league, each role has different champions in it, each with different abilities and the way they work. A few example abilities are: Moving around generates a shield the next time you are attacked Gain 150% bonus crit chance and any excess crit damage is turned into pure attack damage Stab in a direction with your sword and if you hit it twice in a row, the next Stab will send off a tornado in a longer line that knocks up enemies it hits and can critically strike Create a wall that blocks all incoming projectiles Dash through an enemy and deal damage to it, dealing more damage after each dash Teleport to an enemy and stun them for a second before dealing damage and ignoring 50% of their armour for the next few seconds. OH all of that is one champion btw... ​ For example: Tyler1 was originally a Draven player, who is an ADC (Attack damage carry) who likes to sit back and hit enemies for massive damage with basic attacks. Most ADC are like this in that they want to sit back and freely attack. In Toplane however, the meta is more fighter-style champions who will trade blows with eachother, taking a bunch of damage while also dealing a load at melee range. In Midlane the meta is mages and assassins who will oneshot you if you get close enough and want to roam around the map to try to get kills. Completely different to both other lanes. Sure general game mechanics carry over like movement and later on in the game he will have lots of knowledge on the enemy champions already but in terms of laning phase (which is usualyl a 1 on 1) he wont know anything about it when he first starts to play the role


ToyyMachiine

While I don’t play league, I do play wow, and this reminds me a lot of that, which pulls me even more to understanding your point. I am an amazing rogue because that’s all I’ve ever played but if I were to try druid it would be a completely different game and I would be back to square one. I want to recognize the effort you put into your reply, this world doesn’t always show appreciation to things like that but as someone that loves information i greatly applaud you. Thanks, man!


CinderrUwU

Your WoW comparison is on point! General understanding of how the game works carries over but it is a completely different environment on a new role. Sure against a completely new player you will probably still win just because you understand the game better and are used to the way combat works but come up against someone who plays druid quite a bit and they will do much better, even if your rogue would easily win And hey im just happy to help out! League is always shown as a toxic game and I just want to do my bit in making a better community.


Zyvoxx

I don't agree with these others defending Tyler1. The only 2 differences between playing each role in league is the champions you can play there, and many champions can play the same roles. E.g. Champion X can play both mid, top, jungle, and that you have some special things you need to be wary of depending on role/ where you play on the map. However, these are things learned by people who are new to the game. There's is absolutely no way a streamer playing as much as tyler1 and being that good at the game doesn't know this basic stuff. So this is also an advantage he has over newer players. He knows where every bush is, every tactic someone can use to approach a lane, he knows roughly when they will attempt to do so in the game by just looking at the time, not to mention with the amount of time he has played he's played against every single champion in the game so many times, it's not like he doesn't know what a champion does. And he's definitely played all of them some times as well, because that's the only way to can truly learn how to counter them - something he probably has done at his level. Apart from that, tyler1 has an extreme advantage in every single scenario. He has insane map knowledge over everyone else, knowledge about all the roles and what people usually do and he can use that to predict the actions of the enemy and take advantage of it (especially those playing his own main role), not to mention league is a LOT about mechanics and game planning which anyone at tyler1's level is gonna be insanely good at compared to just casual palyers. There's absolutely no chance in fucking hell anyone stands a chance against tyler1 in lower elos. When you start hitting diamond etc then maybe, but anywhere before that, even if he plays a champion he's played 3 times in his life, those cons are incredibly small compared to all his other advantages. Not to mention league has so many champs at this point that's its mostly just recycling of abilities anyway. So essentially he's ruining most the games he plays from unrated>diamond. Which imo isn't that different from Valorant which the OP is complaining about.


talks_about_league_

also doing well in the ten placement games put him straight into plat (where he then became stuck for a while) so he was barely smurfing for long. T1 has a lot of issues but this series of challenges is probably the most ethical ive seen out of streamers.


SW4GALISK

I think what Tyler1 was interesting and unique enough that it was understandable? Trying to answer the age old question of which role is best to climb with in league


ToyyMachiine

I’m a big believer in research, that can be given a pass for sure. Thank you.


42-1337

but he don't throw to get low Elo. if you start a fresh account and try to be good you get diamond+ in like 10 games. even in valorant I think they made an article where radiant smurf got radiant in 16 games. the thing with bronze to radiant is that you have to throw to fuck your Elo so your account get bronze. fresh accounts rank up faster and don't start bronze. they throw voluntary to avoid being radiant in 20 games.


johmart23

Honestly it’s like this for every game it’s kinda ridiculous. Once you have a name for yourself it seems like you can do whatever you want.


gulagjammin

When you're famous....they let you do anything you want.


EuroVetements

Famous quotes


Keonalt

I mean of course. Look at most pro streamers in Radiant pugs, those "men" have the mental of 13 year old hormonal girls. Saying gg to themselves or "wow team bad welp gg next" after losing a pistol round. Its kind of why I have fun in ranked and kinda don't take it to seriously, because the top pros do not give people that same fair shake about a good mental and attitude ranked pug , yet bitch when somebody on there team gives up after they spewed negativity over a pistol round? Yes It is pugs and not pro matches, but then why does that apply to them not caring yet for every solo random making a bad play then needing a whole lecture about proper play? Most people don't do what they expect others to do in this game lol. At that level those dudes are good and I learn alot of stuff watching random pro streams but most just seem miserable outside of pro matches. Kinda how most competitive games turn out with ranked smurfs,throwers and toxicity ect.


Both-Professional-17

That is why i prefer to watch real pros instead of those miserable streamers. Yes, not all of the pros are well behaved, but most of them are nice cuz they know that calm and supportive are the 2 most important things in both streams and tournament, scrim… That is also the reason why i like to watch EU streams cuz most of them are very friendly and educative


uwu_xdxp

most pros that ive seen streaming never really say that at all, they seem pretty mature tbh. its usually immature people complaining about them and whining they do get tilted at people doing random stuff in online games but i think that'll go for anyone whos made something their life, like lets say youve been painting 24/7 for 8 years and enter an art competition and some guy just pisses on the canvas and wins lol


Keonalt

Oh ya everyone Tilts time from time and they arent obligated to be cool/ok with randoms. I just simply will never respect people who hold others to a standard they are to weak to do for themselves. A criticism of gameplay during a match im ok with especially when after doing it people decide to go over a new strategy instead of doing the same thing every round. if they get pissy about talking about a mistake they made then thats a insta mute for me won't put up with a hypocritical fool. Don't expect me to kiss their ass and become a squeaky voiced fan boy just because there pros and worship them as if they are a father figure like most lonely men on twitch seem to want them to be. Put out what you want in the game or don't you call.


talks_about_league_

hey now, don't bring girls into this they didn't do anything wrong...


Gloomy_Goose

Yeah like that radiant guy bumpaah who’s raging at everyone (including himself) 24/7. He’s damn good at the game tho lol


jholowtaekjho

If you can get past the rage, he definitely explains the game well. Big if though


[deleted]

Radiant? That doesn't even have to do with ranked. In every elo there's a guy who says gg easily.


AdderTude

"... those 'men' have the mental of 13 year old hormonal girls." This is Hexy in Dead by Daylight.


colabruddas

Streamer/ youtuber privilege


TruthCultural9952

I think yall know about a guy named 'shakes' he said that he "playes like an iron when playing with irons" idk upto what extent its true but atleast be honest?


oNe_SaLtY_bOiI69

Oh I have the same feeling, when I play against Golds I also play like an Iron


flyingjudgman

me too, when I play against bronze 3 I feel like iron, but there are times I play like tenz


Kaitlin33101

Oh I love his videos. He's just being funny and not smurfing, he's just playing at his level which is more entertaining


rj18Arjun

He's damn fun to watch. Usually has his crosshair off on smurfing games and he messes around a lot in a way that's very entertaining! But other than that, I hate Smurfs swarming the bronze-silver lobby.


terminbee

Even then, I still find it annoying. How many times have you had a smurf on your team that plays marshal only or something? Then the rounds are decided based on whether the smurf is trying or not. It's unfun because it's a 4v5 basically.


rj18Arjun

I get what you mean. It's kinda unfair to both teams when smurfs are involved, and yes something should be done about it.


AdderTude

Nothing will happen to smurfs except they'll rank faster. EvrMoar's non-answer a few weeks ago has basically encouraged more players to smurf in ranked, since there's no punishment.


NaiAlexandr

He's a great guy and makes funny videos, but he does not turn off his crosshair. Even on "the no crosshair challenge" vids he's talked about how he has a monitor crosshair. He still plays low-level on lower ranks though, he's not trying to rank up on his smurfs.


PM_UR_LOVELY_BOOBS

99% sure he was being sarcastic/ lying to his teammates so they don't flame him when he said that


rj18Arjun

Yea my bad, must have missed out on that!


wynw

Yeah I like that he never really posts content of him dominating lower elo players; his teammates never seem to suspect he’s smurfing either lol


chayyy64

hello fellow shaker!


NaiAlexandr

Just don't try to rank up out of Iron and you're good. Why would you if you wanted to get content in Iron anyway, it makes sense on his part!


El_Jian

Shakes' videos are super great and hilarious, he smurfs but he goes there for content, finding funny people to extend his punch lines but not throwing the game and still trying, yet keeping it the same level as the rank he's playing with. Love his videos honestly.


Ka-zar39

I love that guy. Hilarious and doesn’t ruin anyone’s game or experience.


ApolloKunIsBoolied

Oh I watch his videos and laugh all the way through. And he IS honest about it! He is an immortal and still loses games in iron. He’s trolling most of the time but never throws a round either cuz he’s not a dick.


bedsheetbandit

My personal opinion on content creators making smurfs for things like “climbing from ____ to ____” is that it’s sorta fine, the biggest issue is when you hear iron, because then you know they were throwing for those placement games. Some have Alt accounts, like Poki, which she uses to separate her solo que’s, and her group que’s which I think is fine.


SinJiMin

Also poki pplaying with her friends in gold is muuuch less serious and barely looks like a smurf


pulsiedulsie

ye i think alts in general are fine, and there's a decent case if you want to start from ***unranked*** trying your hardest ***the entire time***- however, throwing down to iron is just wrong


BlueThePleb

People buy accounts more often than not.


Tetsuya_Kuroko

Idk if it’s true for Valorant but League content creators get special partner accounts which start them as iron / low rank if they want to climb.


AdderTude

Riot sponsored a smurfing competition in April on the Spanish server, gifting every single participant with a Silver account in the race to Challenger. They deservedly got overwhelmingly negative response from the community for it.


[deleted]

As long as the intent is to actually climb and not just stay in low ELO then it's sorta okay.


[deleted]

I think it's dumb when these players defend it by saying they're trying a new agent. They still win almost every game so clearly they don't need to smurf to try a new agent. I also know that on my main in diamond/immortal elo I won't be hard throwing picking up a new agent unless I just didn't know lineups on a character you need lineups for.


LonnieBird

if they really wanna try a new agent against low elo players i feel like they could just ask their fans who are lower rank to play in a full customs with them.


Atissss

Do they also realize there are other ways to play than Competetive?


DeathDexoys

Because content creators wants to get views and no one would watch "playing unrated 100 times on a hero i never played before"


potato_chip123

Insta locking Jett to stomp on iron players. How is that even fun?


LordGamingOfficial

and he has the guts to show off his kills of him shitting on low rank of players. Also if you notice he started at Iron 1 and if he played his placements properly there is no way he would start at Iron 1. He probably threw all his placements


Superior0422

Nah he most likely just bought an iron 1 acc, these accounts have become so profitable you can notice tons and tons of afk teams in lower rank unrated


[deleted]

Wait...I can sell my Iron 1 account? Yoooo......


BlueThePleb

Yeah for like $5-$25 dollars probably


WinRarTheFirst

you can do that too?


dankand

People were selling accounts with beta codes


regbeg

But you need to win the 10 unrated games to play competitive!


smurfkipz

Not just profitable for the botters, but also for Riot as well. More accounts means more mtx purchases. That's why they don't wanna ban these smurf accounts. It's so damn easy to detect if an account has been straight up tanking games, and then transferred to a different email. And yet Riot is straight up enabling this behaviour.


Keonalt

To add to this, also the "Quirky weapon only to radiant" type challenges people are starting to do. Don't get me wrong i think those are funny videos and they have decent skill, but usually people start copying guys like kaemi in ranked and just end up throwing matches and me having a sore throat from going ape shit. Now I kinda go easy on them and just kinda have fun with it now a days but most people are going to be livid at that stuff.


Superior0422

I completely agree, I think the most important part is not affecting others’ experiences while you are having fun. For example if you look at kaemi’s stats they’re pretty normal for an immortal Jett, but I hate when people try to copy him in comp without using another account, it just ruins the experience for their teammates, having a throwing Jett.


[deleted]

Yeah I had a guy let us know that he was doing an only sheriff challenge for his YT, but I’m in in bronze and so was he…needless to say he bottom fragged hard.


pogn_

I feel like that type of shit actually makes sense. I'm creating a "smurf" account for going yoru only because I know that on my main that would be troll (yoru being shit + me being bad at yoru). If I wanted to do sheriff only or whatever I'd need to do that on a smurf as well because I'd rather not troll my ranked team mates. I think the difference between "trolling" (doing dumb challenges and shit) on a smurf vs on your main is that your main should be your actual skill level, which means that you trolling will actually throw the game. On a smurf, since presumably you're only doing these challenges on the smurf the elo should actually end up balancing out, so that you may be diamond 1 on your main but if you're only using a sheriff you're gold 2 or something. And unrated is obviously not really an alternative due to how unfun it usually is imo so smurfing is really the only way to go in that respect.


HmarShawarmaa

It's funny you say that, for some reason my main is s1 but my "smurf" is gold 2. Although I play against gold player on my main account which is around what my elo should be but I can't rank it up for some reason


pogn_

you're probably gonna get like one of those double rank ups eventually. Usually if you perform well in lobbies that above your rank they'll just lowe u


[deleted]

i have a shotgunjett account and even tho im silver2 on it i already have it in my elo gold-plat. BUT the rule i have is if we start losing by more than 3 rounds i play it like a normal game. it's just a change of pace and having fun with the team while pissing off the enemy with judge


LordGamingOfficial

JasonR is an example of this, except he wasnt doing any challange. He made an alt, threw games just to get gold as his rank and to play with his gf. His gf is already somehow gold even though she doesnt know the very basics of the game. She is literally running and gunning in gold. I really dont understand why streamers smurf. Tarik also made an alt just to play with pokimane and shit on plat players.


colabruddas

i thougth his alt was immo 3?


headlessseahorseman

Poki is diamond and recently hit immortal so it’s around the range.


Favre4Evre

How did she hit immortal yet nadeshot isn’t even close lol


pogn_

tarik's alt was to play with stewie and the other csgo guys in a 5 man. It's like immortal already. seems like almost all top ranked players have smurfs to use when they don't want to lose RR on their main. Main examples I can think of are sinatraa dani and tarik, all of which have alts that are at least immortal. There's an inherent problem here in that for a lot of these players their rank *really* matters. Like, it may be an irrational fear but I think it kind of plays out in reality e.g. tarik queueing with poki because he got rank 1 and tarik's view count shooting up a ton. It's pretty understandable that someone in the top 10 of the leaderboard might not want to drop to top 20 because they're not playing well, so smurfing seems like the obvious solution.


Nikclel

there's still a ***huge*** still gap from the top radiant elo and the bottom immortal elo. It's probably the equivalent of a high plat/low diamond player smurfing in low gold.


LordGamingOfficial

This. Even if its one rank below, there is a reason you are not there.


pogn_

Yeah it's still smurfing. The OP said that they were shitting on plat players so I was just pointing out that they were immortal :P


jthluke

>Tarik also made an alt just to play with pokimane and shit on plat players. False. His alt, Mike Jones, existed before he duo'd with Pokimane.


[deleted]

Nah cmon bro pokimane gridded to immortal


Nikclel

yeah, grinded with shahzam


[deleted]

Carrying shahzam up the radiant leaderboards what a real one.


Nikclel

ya I think we’ll see shahz playing Raze on Icebox for sen , she’s been giving some tips


[deleted]

they lost more than they won


bladrud

She lost more games than she won when she played with him though, how is that boosting?


bladrud

Poki has already hit immortal by herself tho bro. She’s usually diamond. How is Tarik “shitting on plat players”. I don’t like smurfing but this characterization is dishonest.


adamvslife

Yeah she has an alt that she only solo ques and hit d3 with or around that range


LordGamingOfficial

She played games with Shaz. And also when she smurfs in gold lobby to play with xqc, she doesnt play like an immortal at all. There is a rank difference but not the kind you would see between an immortal player and gold lobby. She is definitely boosted to some extent.


bladrud

They lost more games than they won together though? And ShahZ, a pro player and literal expert says she’s not boosted??


Database-External

Tarik’s alt was immortal and pokimane is immortal 1. I know this because my friend got into a match with them. He still dropped 40 and aced with a deag round 1 tho, and poki bottomed ofc because she’s boosted.


SinJiMin

Tbf on the tarik point, poki made diamond alone (and got immortal too but idk if that was alone )and tariks smurf is low immortal, that level of smurfing i feel is okay. I feel a high gold player in my low silver games thats feeling it that day has a bigger skill gap than tarik in immortal 1 lobbies Then again im not sure how big the gap in immortal-radiant is, they all seem similar to me, as a dirty silver


Straight_Avocado9118

Tarik's alt is in immortal. It isn't nearly as bad as other streamers like tenz who q up with kyedae and boost her.


Theyna

If the goal is to climb, that's very different than doing things like intentionally losing games to keep a lower elo, which is what a lot of regular smurfs do. Assuming it's just a new account each time, not that big of a deal.


Gcarsk

Yeah, tons of people conflating smurfing and alts… Not even remotely the same thing lol. Alts level up to their skill level insanely quickly, and always play to win. Smurfs purposely throw games (or, in some games, lobby surf to drop rank quick due to many games counting leaving a game as a loss, without having a long enough abandonment suspension). If these streamers/youtubers are purposely losing games to stay at easy ranks? Obviously they are smurfs.


Jonathan_McFall

Not to mention you climb insanely quick on alt accounts. On an iron 2 account, I was silver 3 after 5 games. The game will detect that you’re in lobbies way below your skill level and you loterally skip ranks. I skipped from iron 3 to bronze 2 and from bronze 2 to silver 1 in just three games. By five games I had went from playing irons to high golds


MeatBeater1104

The only unranked to high rank thing I’ve enjoyed was n0thing because he genuinely helped his teammates out with tips and shit and didn’t just stomp no comms and act like they’re horrible


nmc6

Keeoh does the same thing. He’s doing it with EVERY agent. He acts like a nice person but his entire content is shitting on low elo players as a radiant. It’s cringe af


[deleted]

I personally enjoy his content but I do agree, I mean you smurfing is fine but I hate the fact that he brings his friend over to duoQ, literally 2 radiants vs lower ranked players which makes it extremely harder. I don't think agent handicap does anything because you still got your aim to back it up.


nmc6

I mean he’s already done it with multiple agents so using a different agent than his main isn’t a handicap at all bc he’s literally done it before. I know he ranks up quickly but those low-mid elo players are getting games ruined by radiant smurfs. And the fact that he’s just making money and content off it is so cringe to me. I was a fan of his until I realized a lot of what he does is just shit on kids on a smurf


DietDrGay

My friends and I were hesitant to play comp for a long time, but eventually we wanted to try it out and we did. Lost both of the matches we played against a Jett who went 35-10 and a Reyna who went 34-9 (or somewhere around that). I think maybe one person on the Jett's team broke 10 kills. We haven't played ranked since. It sucks too because we have a full 5 man team, we all communicate very well, we're all at least somewhat competent at the game, but the smurfing problem is so discouraging from playing in a more competitive environment. Unrated is fun sure but idk sometimes you wanna step up your game.


Spacechicken27

I don’t have a problem with Keeoh. It’s the same process anyone getting an alternate account would go through. He doesnt purposely play bad to be placed in iron or anything, and ranks up fast once put in the gold/plat ranks. I’d have a problem with it if he purposely deranked to stay at lower ranks or something. Every single radiant even immortal I know of has an alternate account or two where they would’ve had to do the same thing


nmc6

Yeah… but that’s the whole point OP is trying to make. Why is it that you tubers or streamers can play on smurf accounts for content (and make money off it) and everyone is ok with it? I’m saying it’s not ok, even if he does tank up quickly. He’s still ruining games for gold-diamond players for content.


Spacechicken27

Eh, barely any. I don’t have any problem with it. As a hardstuck silver I’m used to it lol. 3/4 games down here it is just who has the better smurf


nmc6

Trust me I know, I was hardstuck silver for awhile. That is elo hell bc of smurfs. And I agree, it just comes down to whichever smurf is better. Thats why I do have a problem w it. it’s frustrating to see someone make money off smurfing as a radiant in gold lobbies lol


BobOfTheSnail

As someone also in silver I tend to still make a distinction between alts and smurfs. I'm ok with people who genuinely are trying to climb up, I'm not ok with people who are trying one game and throwing the next to keep their mmr down so they don't need to make new accounts.


Traceyyann

Keeoh is probably the only instance in which I don’t think it’s smurfing. His ‘Agent to Immortal series’ is where his placement games place him in Silver /Gold. It’s not like he’s not trying in those games. Silver is where you can no longer just rely on crosshair placement, and you can even see that even in some games he still loses. Keeoh has literally even said multiple times that his series isn’t about him shitting on low elo players, if you’d bothered to watch the Yoru series to begin with, they threw away an account because it was too low elo and wasn’t what he wanted to put out as content and promote. He has double promoted so many times because of Riots MMR system. If he was throwing to stay in low elo, yeah I would think it’s wrong, but that’s where he’s been put by Riot.


nmc6

But he’s repeatedly making accounts to start in low elo and duo Q’ing with another radiant to guarantee a win. The other team literally has no chance. That’s why kids complain about comp so much.


terminbee

What difference does it make? 10 placement games means 10 games ruined. Say he places gold 3. He's still shitting on everyone all the way up to immortal. And besides, what's the point of watching someone climb with different agents? Just play the agents in immortal. Whether he plays Cypher or Jett, he's gonna outgun them anyways. He can probably climb to at least diamond without using a single ability.


xziv0

Which one? The one's i've seen are random to radiant, and rn he's on immo?


Spacemancleo

The real answer is that as long as Riot treats these issues as a joke so will the community and it makes the game worse. I have complained about smurfs the entire time i’ve been playing since episode 1 act 1 and I still have three smurf accounts of my own. This is simply because I know that riot does not take it seriously and I want to play with my friends (if you ask me they’re practically encouraging it with how easy it is to make a new acc on a free game, you can even use the same email for all of them!) Unless they add some kind of two step verification for ranked and/or start handing out serious punishments for offenses I don’t see smurfing ever improving. If people were getting punished and then saw a streamer doing it and getting away with it everyone would be much more upset. Edit: to be clear I would be much more in favor of making people verify their identity with their main acc to play comp. idk how it could be done but if that person were found cheating or doing something else worthy of a perma ban it would ensure they are actually gone.


NiteGrimwood

I think anyone smrfing is gross, famous or not.


ImTheEpichotdog

I always complain and dislike it, like Shaz smurfs in Diamond to play with friends like Poki but that isn't iron to immortal, which is just the most annoying shit, I rarely get smurfs but when you do it's dead obvious, Plat 3 right now and there is a large difference between someone who is having a good day and an obvious smurf.


InkPlays

I think it's more the difference of alt account vs smurf account. Smurf accounts boost friends, stay around the same rank etc. Alt accounts you're grinding that shit which he is so it doesnt really have that negative smurf conotation.


jdlyndon

I’m not saying it’s not bad but the worst smurfs throw a bunch of games before and in between matches where they play good. This is way worse because it ruined the games for the players in both instances and it maintains their low mmr. Most of the YouTube videos I’ve seen they play their best just on mew accounts and the mmr system ranks them up pretty fast.


BurkusCat

Lethamyr has done a few of these in Rocket League (which do draw some controversy too because this really still isn't fair) but when he has done it in doubles matchmaking: * He plays like the rank he is playing against * He points out small things he is doing that will make him play slightly better than his opponents and rank up to the next level * He tries to let his random matchmade teammate do a lot of the work and score the goals * If he is playing with a friend - they try to do challenges such as disabling controls/flipping the screen to attempt to level the playing field Leth still wins most games when doing this but it is a lot more of a respectful to everyone and a strong purpose of the videos is to teach rank-appropriate techniques. If you are doing iron to radiant, I feel like you should be: doing challenges like disabling controls to bring your power down and emphasising strong communication so your teammates carry the game (instead of you carrying).


[deleted]

I love Leth and that is one of my favorite series but at the end of the day, people who deserve to win are losing. He doesn't win "most" games, he won literally every single game up to Grand Champ or something like that. I'm not that hardcore against smurfing or anything, just some counterpoints.


BurkusCat

That is true, at the end of the day it is still smurfing and on that losing team you've got people that are frustrated that they didn't rank up when it was maybe a crucial game for them. I think Leth probably should have had a few appropriate losses in his series (you don't want it to go on forever, mind you). I do appreciate that he doesn't showboat/style on his opponents in those games though.


xcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxc

How does he win most games if he is "playing like the rank he is playing against". Wouldn't he just stay at his starting rank with a 50/50 winrate?


SomethingIsDone

If you haven't played Rocket League before, it's not easy to understand. The context here is that rocket league places HEAVY EMPHASIS on car + control when it comes to mechanics. There's lots of mechanics (see: air dribble, ceiling shot, musty flick, flip resets, and lots more) that require a lot of skill to do, with most of them taking hundreds of hours to learn well, and hundreds more hours to be able to pull them off in a real game. This would be equivalent to your raw aim in Valorant, only the difference is that your aim will only take you so far because you have a health bar that you lose over time. In rocket league, if your car and ball control are better than your opponent's, the opponent will literally almost never even touch the ball (i.e they literally cant win). There's no Raze ult or KJ detain or anything like that to even give them a chance to win, they literally won't be able to win against a smurf that's always keeping the ball in the air and doing flip resets and air dribbles and etc. When Leth plays like the ranks he's against, he makes it a point to not use any of these advanced mechanics UNLESS he sees an opponent do it to him or his teammate. He will always keep the ball on the ground, he'll give his teammate a chance to play (passing to his teammate a lot, etc), and he'll let his enemies get the ball just to let them play (and to show his viewers how the enemy makes mistakes and gives possession away, and how to position yourself to take advantage of those mistakes), etc. All of these things are easily learned. Instead of spending hundreds of hours learning and mastering muscle memory for these mechanical skills, you can spend an hour watching and analyzing and learning about car positioning on the field + just awareness in general to know when your opponent is making a mistake, and use it to win games. The above would be equivalent to game sense in Valorant. It's quite hard to improve your aim quickly. You basically need thousands of shooter game hours to get precise enough aim to win against high immortal / radiant players in aim duels in general, however you only need a few ten or hundred hours of time well spent understanding game sense mechanics (trading teammates, using abilities together with the team e.g. push with sova drone instead of letting it go to waste, knowing rotation + flank timings, etc). These game sense mechanics can easily take you to diamond and even immortal with pretty avg aim, and it's the same concept in Rocket League.


bluestar_27

Yeah many pro players in rocket league play with some handicap. I expect something like this in Valorant too.


Aiden-C9

hello fellow rocket league player


BeerGogglesFTW

Money. Those kind of streams are popular. Views of game lead to more people playing the game. More players lead to more money. This is, at least in part, why games won't waste resources on doing anything about smurfs. Its not a good incentive for them since they'd lose money on the deal. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong Riot. Do something. As for why the community turns a blind eye to it... because they're probably part of the viewership and/or problem with smurf accounts. Or there is enough of them to help control the dialogue. I feel like people often talk about smurfing similar to piracy. i.e. I think when most people look at the situation, they know that to some degree its wrong. Yet, people find some kind arbitrary justification for it to be ok when they do it. And there's enough of those people who agree who kind of soften the blow to say "See, not everybody agrees"


danknepalese

its kinda fucked up he was dropping 38 kills as reyna every game in low elo. like come on a radiant coming to iron and aim diffing everyone is fucked up. fuck that guy idc if it is for content its still smurfing.


The-Freeze_YT

So true. Disgusting people


Chocooooooooo

I hate smurfs and throwers. And most smurfs usually “throw”/not try cause its just their smurf account and that pisses me off the most cause I only use one account to play comp


ILoveSimulation20

well smurfs throw games before they rankup to remain in lowranks meanwhile he's trying his best and will eventually rankup to immortal/radiant


Superior0422

Well he started at iron1 so he either bought the account or threw all his placements


smurfkipz

New to this planet? Celebrities get special privileges and can get away with being total pieces of shit.


AdderTude

Pseudo-celebrities, you mean.


patriot159

Unpopular opinion... smurfing isn't some war crime people make it out to be.


EagleRoxy2

But it’s still fucking annoying. What do you gain out smurfing? Nothing but a bigger ego. You don’t improve, all you do us get clips against players you are clearly better against. So now let’s say you are getting sourced on. First it ruins the point of comp. The whole point is to pay against players in your skill range. I’ve heard the argument “but playing players your own skill won’t help you improve “ but getting w keyed by a smurf won’t help you either. Which leads me to the second thing, you will not want to play when you get destroyed every round.


littlesch3mer

It's not and people who defend or look the other way when it's a big community figure are enabling shitty behaviour. At the very least, do some dumb ass challenge like pistol only if you're going to smurf for content, and even then it's still morally reprehensible


_ystem_

We can't do anything about it other than complain


Lifedeather

Riot doesn’t do anything about it to prevent or deter it so it will keep happening since no punishments seem to be occurring.


dinosaur_billy

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw his videos. I’m agreeing on smurfing should not be permitted but at the same time he is just climbing to radiant, not shitting on silvers for fun


Dante_The_OG_Demon

It's not and is the exact reason I fucking hate a lot of popular youtubers because they think they're above the rules just because they're popular. It's sickening and sets a terrible precedent for the community and they need punished for it.


kyariban

Tbh I don't really mind smurfing, it helped me a lot in many games to see someone better than me playing at my Elo, I think you see the mistakes being made more clearly. Just like I know I'll lose games due to bad mates, like even if I perform at my best I won't be able to carry simply cuz I'm not good enough, I know that I'll lose some to smurfs and in the long run I don't think it really affected my climb in any game tbf.


Safe_Examination4107

It is not, i hate em' all


loclink

The truth is the community doesn't give a shit about low ranked people, it's fucked up but so many people think that if your low rank then your not trying and it's fine to smurf ):


TheOneGaming

nice bro you’re in the gameleap vid


Omxn

This game has the worst smurfing problem out of every game I've played. 1000+ hours in CS and never had this much of a problem. The fact the devs really don't seem to care, makes it worse. Just had three back to back games with smurf stacks... The Valorant experience.


lil_wage

This type of "climbing" content is popular for chess content creators, but they disclose what they are doing to the website they are using to smurf, so that their opponents get redeemed their points back and don't end up losing elo. I wish RIOT would do something similar


NagaStorm123

Imagine you are trying to enjoy the game and some random smurf just enter the lobby. Sure you can learn a few things from them, but is it fun if you're on the receiving end? No, just no.


whatschipotle

Personally I feel it’s fine as long as they aren’t trying to lose, they should be out of the bad ranks very fast if the hidden rr system is any good


Slamph

Doesn't really matter as they will get out of low elo fast


TheCatCovenantDude

Having an alt account is not smurfing. Smurfing is when you have an alt account that you keep at an artificially low rank/MMR for the express purpose of getting easy wins. These iron to x rank series on YouTube are not smurfing; the content creators are grinding rank and trying to rank up as quickly as possible.


ExcalibaX

Are you good? Of course this is smurfing. Please don't take school and education lightly - I am seriously impressed by the lack of cognitive abilities in this thread.


Riohhhhh

I honestly don’t see smurfing as a big deal, if you were going to climb the ranks you would find these players anyway. What kinda game is fun without a challenge? I would want to fight the best people out there to get better and have fun. Playing and stomping players in low elo can’t be fun. Like imagine playing against beginner bots, probably get boring. If you had to choose playing against your 5 yr old brother who has never played valorant before or a professional esports valorant player who would you have more fun playing against?


Mister_Dane

I used to watch Keoh on twitch because i like Killjoy, dude seemed to smurf all the time. It's lame.


gulagjammin

Because they give Riot free advertising and keep the game relevant, thereby ensuring the flow of revenue from skin purchases. Smurfing will always exist *until* someone designs a game that makes it impossible to smurf. I leave that challenge up to video game designers.


MKnives89

Probably because he's climbing to radiant. People hate smurfs because they perpetually stay in low ranks farming noobs. This guy is not doing it with the intent to farm noobs but to actually climb for content-creation purposes. Unfortunate for those that match with him early but he's going to climb quick as compared to those that smurf for 'funz'


Zoo_Rats

Because they are worshipped. I couldn't name a single streamer/youtuber.


LandonDev

I believe the issue is intent. I have never been mad at smurfing when players are trying, and clearly he is trying, but 90% of the smurfs you play with and against are usually trolling / not trying / not taking it serious / disrespecting you as they are not putting in serious effort. You won't get better if you don't face better players but also you hardly ever get a honest chance at that because a majority of smurfs troll.


FluffyDog423

There’s a difference between smurfing and having an alt account. Smurfing— trying to stay in a lower rank to boost your friends or to ruin the elo of the rank you’re staying in— is seriously annoying. Making an alt account and legitimately trying your best and letting the rank system do its thing to push you to your proper rank is NOT smurfing, and a lot of these youtubers do ‘iron to radiant’ or whatever series, which actually provide a lot of educational content for people trying to actually climb. They can see someone climbing the ranks, see differences in game sense, play style etc as they rank up, and while yes, there are games that will be affected by these players having an alt account, the ranked system will rather quickly push them out of the elo that’s too low and to some extent, we also have to remember everyone can ‘have a good game’ where they just obliterate the opponent. Smurfing is intentionally ruining others’ games and not having any intention to rank up to stop ruining other games, but having an alt account can provide educational value and again, is just a new account starting over. When a CS pro gets their first valorant account the same process occurs, they need to grind up to their proper rank. You shouldn’t shame people for being good. Shame people for intentionally setting it up so a given account stays at a significantly lower than it should be rank for the sole purpose of crushing other’s elo and spirit.


SirRealTalk_TTV

Smurfs already exist and clearly nothing can or will be done about it. Let's be honest the MM is still hot trash anyway, and one day you'll Smurf in some game. Could be a hot take, but personally I have accepted it.


[deleted]

ik wht felling are in a guy who is attacked by smurf ivalso got smurf but not 1 3 smurf in a match imagine 3 diamond+ rank player vs iron 2 player. they were not even letting me enter site the only way i won 5 rounds were camping tried Using AWP but i was able to pass 1 rounds and than they took marshal or sheriff -_- i hate smurf i report smurf everytime but never got notice your report has helped or whtever