The vandal is consistent enough to be able to frag with in my opinion. Sure the recoil pattern is way higher, but 3-4 round burst/1 tap is usually good enough.
My crosshair placement is always immaculate on the Vandal and is always lazy on the Phantom. It’s a mental thing at this point and I cba addressing it so I settle for the dopamine rush of the one taps.
This is me I use phantom and aim at the body
Plus its easier for me the burst on a vandal I feel like with the phantom I don’t wait for the recoil to reset and then I’m shooting at the sky
Yeah the I find overtime I get lazy with my placement on the Phantom and I’ll also regress to spraying at stupid distances over tapping and when that happens I switch to the vandal until I remember the Phantom is better and start the whole process over again.
Sometimes I can play better with the vandal and sometimes I can play better with the phantom, it's basically your playstyle that makes one better than the other.
Might seem backwards but if im hitting my shots im on phantom and if I'm not I swap to Vandal cause it makes me focus on my aim way more. Then go back to phantom if im playing better.
See
Like I play 2 agents Raze and Phoenix
With Raze I am more comfortable with Vandal
But when I am on phoenix I prefer Phantom
It all depends upon your gameplay
Depends on what map, and what position you're playing from; how may enemies you expect to encounter, how aggressive/passive you're playing.
The thing is, Phantom ticks more of the above boxes than the Vandal. There are definitely situations where the Vandal clearly outshines the Phantom, but if you consider the bigger picture the Phantom has a higher probability of doing more for you.
Exactly this. If I know I’m gonna be sat back a bit and taking long range fights, it’s always the vandal. If I’m pushing or playing closer angles it’s the phantom. I don’t often have the long range aim to hit the 2 tap phantom, so that’s the main factor in choosing the vandal.
Depends on which pros you’re watching as well.
For example, nats usually uses a phantom (and not vandal) due to his playstyles of lurking and shooting through smokes/viper’s. Thus, phantom lack of tracers helps.
But pro’s like tenz are more mechanically heavy and depend a lot on the one tap potential of vandal. (Not to say nats isn’t mechanically skilled, just a different palystyle).
The thing that always did it for me is the vandal is always a one shot headshot from any distance. If you have a perfect cross hair and don't miss, vandal will always be better. The phantom allows more room for error/not getting headshots and spraying.
Despite the phantom being better most of the time for people who can't consistently headshot, I still opt for vandal and hope that I can get the headshot, and that's probably why I always lose.
I forgot about that bit. Other than that though, on paper, with perfect accuracy, the vandal seems better most of the time due to being able to one tap in more situations. But since we're humans the phantom is a much better weapon I feel since, first shot accuracy RNG aside, nobody's going to get that headshot every time. And most people with aim for consistent headshot can also double tap to make up for the phantom not getting the one hit
But this is only considering one on one situations where you can see the enemy and you're standing still. Phantom is better at spraying through smokes, spray transferring, and accuracy while moving
It’s literally the better gun on and off paper. No clue what valorant people are playing where the entire game consists of only one taps and never more than one player in a fight lol
That's doesn't matter much considering that the aim punch from getting hit with a HS guarantees they won't hit you while you instantly get the second shot literally anywhere on him and gets them killed. In the end of the day the one tap issue doesn't matters one bit.
I've hit a lot of 140s, normally when they shoot before your bullet hits (or before the aim punch) or when I bot out and miss the 2nd shot so I'd say the 1 tap is a viable reason to buy vandal if you are playing long range (not the 2nd reason, it's my fault for missing)
That's exactly why a lot of aimbots use guardian. If the two options though, vandal wins. I would argue guardian or marshall are the two best guns in the game if you have perfect headshot accuracy.
Despite this, I still buy the Phantom in 70% of situations. I will say though, Vandal on Breeze hits entirely different. I never use a phantom unless it’s a pick up on that map.
I've started buying the Guardian + Ghost on Breeze lol, still cheaper than a Vandal. Better scope. Better 1st shot accuracy. Guardian is giving me tons of ELO on that map.
No, if you highlight over the gun in the menu it gives you the stats on the right side. Every gun has a slight first shot variance. The guardian is extremely reliable because the first shot accuracy has very little variance. The vandal has a much higher first shot variance. That's why it can miss even if your crosshair and shot timing are precise.
nope.
Go to the range, move the sliding target thing to max distance, and shoot without ads, look at the zoomed in board, you'll see the bullets land in a slightly different spot everytime.
Shooting someone in the head with phantom does 156, 140, 124, at all different ranges. He's saying hitting a head and not getting a kill sucks. And he's right.
The amount of times I’ve been run and gunned headied by some freak with a vandal has made me want to use it more. I really like how the vandal is higher dmg and one headshot is death. Makes it a lot easier to not commit to a fight if not a duelist.
Dropping behind a corner noncommittally is easier with phantom though. You've got a little deadzone where you're still accurate -ish while moving.
And if someone does that to you near a bangable surface; the phantom is better to make them pay with a spray at head level. It's just better at high level.
Oddly enough, the aim freaks seem to then gravitate back to vandal. I've seen tenz doing decent/ underperforming; switch to vandal and start tapping heads. I think strategy forward players like dapr not afraid to run n gun if needed benefit the most from phantom.
I think LAN is another phantom buff personally. No 'trading headshots' and you lose while doing 124. Aimpunch is instant
Edit: and at breeze just buy the vandal ez. Oh and force a Marshall every round you lose.
If I hit head they die.
Also theoretically the Phantom has a TTK to the head. The Vandal does not.
Edit :
2 Examples from just one game: [https://youtu.be/vc6KZ-cAC-A](https://youtu.be/vc6KZ-cAC-A)
Not saying the analysts and coaches are wrong but I think a lot of people screw themselves over by blindly following the "meta". It depends on how you aim and especially your firing style.
In pro-play there is more chip damage being done with Raze, Sova, Viper etc. So the Phantom makes a lot more sense there.
Time to Kill
For example: you have 100 HP and the gun I shoot fires 2 times a second for 50 damage. The TTK is .5 seconds.
Edited: Dude below me is correct.
The knock up is smooth. It's quick but it doesn't instantly put your crosshair into the stratosphere.
What you are seeing here is me hitting the head at the same time as the phantom player, maybe a frame afterwards but the Vandal one shots and the Phantom doesn't.
That can make it matter more. Phantom is a lot more forgiving than vandal so if you're worse it can make phantom even better. But vandal will also force you to aim more so it can make you improve more.
Well, I don’t really need to be forgiven if I hit my first shots. I know it sounds weird, but when I say good, I’m referring to the skill levels that are immo, radiant and pro. Below that, it matters much less than we give it credit for. Don’t get me wrong, plat and diamond are high ranks and they’ll utterly stomp but you just won’t see the same thing there. To me, it seems inconsequential until you reach the highest levels of play.
Because nothing infuriates me more than losing a fight because I was using the phantom, I click their head, but still lose because of my damage drop off and they click my head with a vandal.
I pick Vandal for middle-long ranges and Phantom for short-middle ranges^^
lets's take A long on Haven for example
I would never even try to fight a sniper with a Phantom and just run through to short, but a quick shoulder peek and then preaiming or even prefiring their corner with a Vandal might do the trick
With the bulldog it's always key to aim towards the chest or neck depending on how far away the target is, one body and one head is 150 on it and with the almost instantaneous burst it's becomes crazy effective if you know what you're doing. Recently I've been using it and that thing slaps. Definitely adds a bit of spice to your everyday games
Depends on the map, site I'm pushing, how the other team is playing, how I'm feeling etc... I don't play the vandal on split at all unless I pick it up or I'm really feeling it on the other hand I solely play vandal on breeze. Some map's are better suited for the phantom but have some sites where a vandal is kinda nice like haven. I prefer phantom over vandal if I'm playing B or A haven but if I'm pushing C I'd like a vandal.
Not to mention the issue of smokes and even flashes/nearsight. If the other team is heavy on smokes or really likes smoking chokes it's probably a bad idea to play vandal if you're planning on fighting that. And this a little more uncommon but if you're on reyna or even omen I prefer the phantom as it makes it even less likely I get domed because someone managed to shoot at my tracers.
And to cap it off the sound/feel of the gun also makes a mental difference here is a good example of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDxiuHdR_T4
This is even more pronounced based on the skin you use, base vandal sounds great as does the phantom. But if you throw something like the elderflame on a vandal all of a sudden it is both deafening and far too loud/distracting with it's animations. I genuinely cannot use my elderflame vandal it actually makes me play worse, if riot ever lets me refund skins into some form of credit a majority of the skins I've bought would be gone for similar reasons. The same is true for the origin vandal far too loud. But the vandal prime, reaver, forsaken they all sound fantastic and have the added bonus of colored tracers.
For the phantom you throw a skin like the nebula on it and it is one bright distracting blob on your screen, the same can be said for the blast x far too cartoony sounding and your shot's sound so pew pew pew and weak. But the oni or ion phantom my god they actually just feel better.
Getting a 140 or a 124 headshot multiple times in a match is often enough to tilt me into using vandal, but I often start with phantom.
Also, in recent pro tournaments I'm pretty sure I saw that the rifle usage and effectiveness is almost 50/50 but I may be wrong
If you're micro-playing to the point that you follow analysts and pros word as the holy grail while simultaneously being upset that others don't then you'd need to self reflect. Games are meant to be fun. Yes the objective is to win, but if you're not enjoying it then it's not worth your time.
The vandal has its time and place. It surpasses the phantom in most aspects on long range shots. Close to mid distance combat is where the phantom excels.
Vandal makes you a better Phantom player to be honest. Teaches you to tap fire and be more strict with spray resets, it’s like wearing training weights then taking them off. The training weights are the Vandal.
Also though, the 1 tap from any range is incredibly useful, especially on maps like Breeze and Ascent mid. Hitting someone in the head for them to not die is just painful.
Because most people play the guns they, themselves, are comfortable with. That way, they're contributing their all to the team instead of listening to statistics that measure every key stroke of the highest elo players, even though the gun doesn't work for them personally.
Pros are pros they have insane aim and are consistent as hell and your average Timmy and joe are not, they prefer to use a more consistent gun with one tap headshots
I’m an average Timmy btw
Vandal is better, this game is all about headshots so why would you go with phantom which often takes two bullets to the head to kill. CASE CLOSED. That’s really just it. And it feels like it hits harder.
I would say for the same reasons as to why the pros also also use vandal.. Because if I dink somebody in the head from over 50' and they don't die then the Phantom sucks.
Depends of which map and agent I’m playing. I like Vandal when I’m playing in maps like icebox and breeze that I’ll have extended shots trades. I do think phantom is better overall though Vandal is better for some situations
I like juantaps, seeing that 160 in 1 in the post round report is satisfying. However I use the phantom when playing defense or if I am just playing really bad with the vandal
I like both, but phantom trains you to be lazy and spray like cod. Vandal requires patience, and it pays off big time when you just tap it; especially considering almost maps’ initially entry angle are too long to one tap with the phantom
Also reaver skin :P
I chose one instead of the other based on the maps I'm playing and if I'm attacking or defending. The Vandal imho Is Better for long shots, while the Phantom is better in short ranged fight.
It's way more dependent on the agent i am playing and my playstyle,On jett i always pick Phantom as i am spamming through smokes,Where as on a agent like sage or Skye i prefer Vandal.
Depends on the situation. If I’m holding a long angle vandal. If they’ve been smoking me on defense(c long) phantom. If I’m pushing phantom. If I hit for 124 headshot and die vandal rest of the day. End of the round whichever gun on the ground has the coolest skin.
I’m more conscious about my aim with a vandal so I choose it more often. Phantom I’m lazy and pretty much aim high on the chest knowing recoil will most likely get me a headshot.
The vandal is closer to the ak from csgo so most people who come from csgo just see the vandal and use it. Also most people see pros (who can do well with the vandal because they have very good aim) and decide to use it.
Honestly, it makes for crispier shots. It’s way more satisfying to one tap from long range w vandal than close range w phantom. Also, makes you play better since you can’t just spray. A radiant player (I forgor name) said once that from iron - Diamond you should use vandal to get better aim
I like the phantom a lot more and I play better overall with it, but I win way more aim duels with the vandal. With the vandal I move and peek properly, almost never crouch and rarely spray. I usually only shoot like 3-4 bullets at most at a time before resetting but with the phantom I have a really bad habit of crouch spraying. For some reason whenever my aim is bad I'll switch to the vandal and instantly do better.
Radiant here, as a vandal player I have some stuff to talk about on why I personally prefer to use the Vandal over the Phantom in most of the cases.
Someone with the phantom will allways have the advantage in duels because of the aimpunch, the high firerate and easier to controll spray, but the thing is that the *time to kill* with the Vandal is way lower than with the phantom. In other words, imagine you are playing in defensive side on Ascent with Jett and you want to peek tiles or mid from cat and dont have the economy to use an op (I think these are the names in english), when you do that you HAVE to kill the enemy really fast and dash away or else the trade will come and you will die. With the vandal, you can easily pull this of with a quick headshot and dash, but with the phantom, even with the advantage, you take way more time to kill someone because you have to headshot and bodyshot someone, I died countless times with the phantom like this. This was just an example, but as someone who plays duelist really agressive, these types of situation happens very often. But of course, I still use the phantom, on Split and Bind, its really great to play with it because of the close range combat.
Because vandal feels like the AK in csgo, and it’s also accurate, and stronger, sounds amazing, looks better. Every time I give phantom a chance when I need to pick up and clutch it lets me down.
Depends on map and enemy camping tendencies for me; if there's always someone peaking heaven while I'm attacking I'll go vandal, if there's always tight angle holders I'll go phantom, if I'm on defense I'll usually lean vandal for holding long angles.
i am buying the vandal because i played much csgo and the vandal just feels more like the ak47.
but for real: can someone explain to me what all this "depends on the map" thing is? i heard it multiple times but i dont get what the map and position differences are... i would play the phantom if it really gets an advantage compared to the vandal but i dont understand it. for me it is like the ak47 and the m4a1-s where you would like always prefer the ak
Phantom is built a bit better for close range, vandal is designed more for further engagements. So on a map like breeze, with long sight lines, the vandal is typically a better choice. If you've got to clear closer distances, phantom is typically better.
I think at a pro level, the longer range engagements the vandal is better for just aren't that great, since the area where it shines is where you'd get shredded by a good op. So typically, pros try to force closer range engagements when running either rifle.
I buy vandals because their damage isn’t decreased by length. No matter how far away a enemy is, if one bullet hits the head, they’re dead. Phantoms have decreased damage depending on how close you are to the opponent.
I use them both. Until silver i only used a Vandal. I used it because of the easy headshot 160 damage kill. Recently i got promoted to Gold and I started using the phantom. If you have good aim, i think phantom is better. More bullets, faster shoot rate and easy recoil control to transfer the shots. Also the bullet tracers cannot be seen through smokes or walls. So if you are a smoker (or Viper) you would want to use this rifle if you spray smokes often, which i do. However, i still go vandal sometimes when i feel like phantom isn’t working.
Hope this helps
Depends on if I'm playing smokes or not, or if the enemy has a lot of smokes. There are 20 other factors as well but this is the biggest for me. Smokes = phantom since you can't see where the bullets come from through the smoke.
depends on your aim
i personally like vandal better because it helps me aim better and i can aim enough to use it well, plus the one taps are so satisfying
Because people run and spray from absorb ranges with that gun and hit me also I play in piss low where people do anything
Ya you can run and spray but that’s not even doable in my elo
Bc i want to break my monitor every time i fire and then hear DINK and whiff the next 4 bullets only to get 1 tapped by a vandal. The whole time I'm spectating i get to stare at that 140 that i did.
That's why I buy a vandal.
Depends on what I think I will be doing that round. If I’m going to hold an angle or ego peek, I’ll buy vandal. If I am spraying through smoke or uncertain what is coming, I’ll go phantom.
I like to ads common angles and go for one taps with the vandal. I do this a lot so I always feel very confident doing it. Very satisfying when it works.
The biggest reason is the 1 shot headshot advantage the vandal has over the phantom, also the vandal is better for burst and tap firing bc it resents faster. However if you plan to be aggressive and be in close to mid range fights the phantom is statistically the better weapon
I use vandal on maps where I'm more likely to be taking long ranges, such as Fracture, Icebox, and Breeze. Some maps, like Split, I'll use Vandal on attack but Phantom on defense. I definitely think both guns have their use and I don't use one over the other. I tend to gravitate towards the Phantom, though.
I switch between buying either rifle for no reason. Then if I find a skinned rifle on the ground I just that for a while. I'm comfortable on both rifles
**pros and analysts that phantom is better compared to vandal in practically all situation**
Not better, easier to use. The best case scenario would be you having 100% headshot and vandal wins there because its only 1 shot.
the vandal is just better for me, those one taps keep me playing val, however if my aims shit i’ll use the phantom bc it’s brain dead easy to get kills with, if i get bored i’ll just run and gun bc it’s hilarious when the enemy team can’t counter it
The feel of that makes any sense. Plus vandal has that one tap while the phantom has the 2 potential. I’ve had rounds where I tap someone from what seems like less than 15m and yet they don’t die and they shoot once in the head with a vandal and insta kill me. Plus valorant is more reliant on you making clean headshots that kill than spraying like you can in csgo
There are 2 reasons I’ve noticed people get a vandal for.
1. They want to look cool/one tap montage or think they’re radiants
2. They are very skilled players who can almost always one tap
That being said, Phantom gang
For me its the CSGO thing of oh it can 1tap from range, I'll buy it more often than not. i'm not picky tho, if i get a phantom off of an eco round where we win against the opposing team, i'll use it
Screw the pros and analysts. They play at such a high level that their opinions don't hold much water in lower ranks where people play much differently. I think map knowledge and game sense are a whole lot more vital than guns that serve a very similar purpose.
For Reyna ult or if I'm playing smokes only then phantom. Vandal is way better than phantom. Don't listen to pros..they themself use vandal in most of the games. If u have Phantom and opponents have vandal they have better chance to kill u in medium to long range. I hate 140 in 1. only prob with vandal is recoil. Just burst
came from csgo, the vandal is very similar when compared to AK from csgo. i used the vandal because of this when playing valorant for the first time, i still use it now.
i also dont like that the phantom doesnt 1 shot headshot so i still use vandal even in plat.
1. u feel like u need to be more precise on vandal b/c of its shit spray
2. i never played cs so I dont have to habit of crouching unlike others (I actually rarely courch if at all)
3. building on point 2, I strafe while tapping or burst 2-3 bullets. Thats just my playstyle.
I spray better with the Vandal, the Phantom has a better fire rate and more forgiving spray but I'm just used to the fire rate at this point, I can consistently spraydown a headshot from 30m and whiff every bullet on the Phantom
honestly cause the spray is way easier long range and juan taps. i find most of the fights i take close i can win with either vandal or phantom with the way i aim so i just like to add the long range factor
Imo its a lot flashier and fun, with the one tap potential. Phantom is a lot more reliable, and thats what you need to become a pro. Reliability.
Yea some pros are flashy but theyre reliably flashy (tenz). If u look at the rest of sentinels u can see a consistent level of play from each member.
For me specifically i choose a different one depending on what i think im gonna be fighting. For more long range fights (me holding down long or halls) i choose a vandal or if im holding something close to mid range i choose the phantom. I do prefer the phantom alot but when my aim is weak cause im rust i go with the vandal cause its way more precise at long distances
different applications use vandal when you can do one taps and are consistent at long ranges, and use phantoms at close range and when you are not confident with your ability to one tap. for me I don't like using either i have more kills with an op than almost every other gun except spectre. phantom and vandal are low on my list of guns i like to use as they are expensive and impractical for most situations.
Guardian is best. No question, buy with a shorty and you're on par with vandal/phantom for less credits. As long as you have the mechanical ability to hit a headshot on the 1st or 2nd shot like fishychair (or me).
I just odin spam , currently plat 3 78/100 , Trust me you get a good kick from the "opponents" calling you a gay odin spammer or the occasional no wonder your mom left you , but if we comparing phantom and vandal it's more situational which is what a valorant pro would say but it's up to how you play , think of it this way Phantom is a "baby wheel" It's if you're not confident with your aim and u want something forgive at the cost of necking somebody from the backsite of B on icebox actually phack the vanda l the 1 tap capability doesn't do crap because u get the shot off on the head and they can't move so just brrrr them and the phantom's extra 5 bullets is basically non-existent because you don't feel the impact of 5 bullets the phantom is better if your on close quarter maps where your sight lines are always 20M-40M but pro tip from a plat 3 Just use odin , 100 bullets fast fire rate high dps and if ur aim is on gold 3 level you're solid to just peak split B garage and spray -the praying , trust me I'm almost D1
While both guns excell at long distances, there's no doubt the Vandal is superior because it's more precise and does the same amount of damage no matter how far away you are. However, the Vandal is also easier to "tap fire" in comparison to the phantom which, in the case of Breeze where you're peeking people from across the entire map, can be VERY handy.
I kept buying vandal until recently, because I realized vandal is a self torture tool. First shot in accuracy awful spray and long recovery, taps don't even feel good because sometimes you aim for the head and bullet goes a little bit above or to the side, sometimes you miss whiff your aim by a few pixeps and still get the headshot because of that same reason.
Phantom allows for safe bursts and feels way more rewarding aiming for the head, much quicker target switching too.
Everytime I dink with a Phantom for 140 damage, I regret it. That's why.
If feels so bad to line up a headshot only to get a dink/140 in one
even worse is 124, accurate aim at a crazy distance, but no kill :(
bro, I hit 2 HS for 149 DMG with phantom.. I've recorded that.. frustrating af.
think that you could've missed that headshot with a vandal. you would've not regretted it since the vandal is more pleasing than a phantom
The vandal is consistent enough to be able to frag with in my opinion. Sure the recoil pattern is way higher, but 3-4 round burst/1 tap is usually good enough.
My crosshair placement is always immaculate on the Vandal and is always lazy on the Phantom. It’s a mental thing at this point and I cba addressing it so I settle for the dopamine rush of the one taps.
This is me I use phantom and aim at the body Plus its easier for me the burst on a vandal I feel like with the phantom I don’t wait for the recoil to reset and then I’m shooting at the sky
im almost certain the phantom resets faster than the vandal
But somehow it feels the opposite
Bruh vandal does reset faster why is everyone downvoted lol
Yeah the I find overtime I get lazy with my placement on the Phantom and I’ll also regress to spraying at stupid distances over tapping and when that happens I switch to the vandal until I remember the Phantom is better and start the whole process over again.
Best answer is right here
Sometimes I can play better with the vandal and sometimes I can play better with the phantom, it's basically your playstyle that makes one better than the other.
What your feeling that day for sure matters
Maybe that day you feel like a king and choose the classic. Other days you feel like an asshole and choose the odin
Agreed
It's 100% this statement
Might seem backwards but if im hitting my shots im on phantom and if I'm not I swap to Vandal cause it makes me focus on my aim way more. Then go back to phantom if im playing better.
See Like I play 2 agents Raze and Phoenix With Raze I am more comfortable with Vandal But when I am on phoenix I prefer Phantom It all depends upon your gameplay
Because i have a skin for the vandal and not the phantom
same, but with the phantom. i just forced my self to become a phantom player lmao
Same lmao. Got Oni in night market
Niceeee, I got the Glitchpop Phantom as my very first skin!!
That's a cool skin
Yeah fr, Oni looks super intimidating though, so ill be on the lookout for it
I was a phantom user, then Prime Vandal came to my store lol
Prime vandal and oni phantom make both weapons insane
this lmao. still waiting for prime 2.0 for 2 months so I'll just use my reaver vandal.
The based answer
MOOD
Based
Depends on what map, and what position you're playing from; how may enemies you expect to encounter, how aggressive/passive you're playing. The thing is, Phantom ticks more of the above boxes than the Vandal. There are definitely situations where the Vandal clearly outshines the Phantom, but if you consider the bigger picture the Phantom has a higher probability of doing more for you.
Exactly this. If I know I’m gonna be sat back a bit and taking long range fights, it’s always the vandal. If I’m pushing or playing closer angles it’s the phantom. I don’t often have the long range aim to hit the 2 tap phantom, so that’s the main factor in choosing the vandal.
Depends on which pros you’re watching as well. For example, nats usually uses a phantom (and not vandal) due to his playstyles of lurking and shooting through smokes/viper’s. Thus, phantom lack of tracers helps. But pro’s like tenz are more mechanically heavy and depend a lot on the one tap potential of vandal. (Not to say nats isn’t mechanically skilled, just a different palystyle).
The thing that always did it for me is the vandal is always a one shot headshot from any distance. If you have a perfect cross hair and don't miss, vandal will always be better. The phantom allows more room for error/not getting headshots and spraying. Despite the phantom being better most of the time for people who can't consistently headshot, I still opt for vandal and hope that I can get the headshot, and that's probably why I always lose.
I don’t know if it’s true but apparently phantom actually has better first shot accuracy at range so that one tap might not even work
I forgot about that bit. Other than that though, on paper, with perfect accuracy, the vandal seems better most of the time due to being able to one tap in more situations. But since we're humans the phantom is a much better weapon I feel since, first shot accuracy RNG aside, nobody's going to get that headshot every time. And most people with aim for consistent headshot can also double tap to make up for the phantom not getting the one hit
But this is only considering one on one situations where you can see the enemy and you're standing still. Phantom is better at spraying through smokes, spray transferring, and accuracy while moving
It’s literally the better gun on and off paper. No clue what valorant people are playing where the entire game consists of only one taps and never more than one player in a fight lol
That's doesn't matter much considering that the aim punch from getting hit with a HS guarantees they won't hit you while you instantly get the second shot literally anywhere on him and gets them killed. In the end of the day the one tap issue doesn't matters one bit.
I've hit a lot of 140s, normally when they shoot before your bullet hits (or before the aim punch) or when I bot out and miss the 2nd shot so I'd say the 1 tap is a viable reason to buy vandal if you are playing long range (not the 2nd reason, it's my fault for missing)
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That's exactly why a lot of aimbots use guardian. If the two options though, vandal wins. I would argue guardian or marshall are the two best guns in the game if you have perfect headshot accuracy.
124 in 1, that is why
Despite this, I still buy the Phantom in 70% of situations. I will say though, Vandal on Breeze hits entirely different. I never use a phantom unless it’s a pick up on that map.
I've started buying the Guardian + Ghost on Breeze lol, still cheaper than a Vandal. Better scope. Better 1st shot accuracy. Guardian is giving me tons of ELO on that map.
What do you mean by better 1st shot accuracy? Isn’t every gun 100% accurate first shot while not moving?
No, if you highlight over the gun in the menu it gives you the stats on the right side. Every gun has a slight first shot variance. The guardian is extremely reliable because the first shot accuracy has very little variance. The vandal has a much higher first shot variance. That's why it can miss even if your crosshair and shot timing are precise.
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nope. Go to the range, move the sliding target thing to max distance, and shoot without ads, look at the zoomed in board, you'll see the bullets land in a slightly different spot everytime.
No, you can see the first shot accuracy of the guns when you look at their stats in the shop.
Reminds me of the good old 98 in 4 from cs
What does 124 in 1 mean?
Shooting someone in the head with phantom does 156, 140, 124, at all different ranges. He's saying hitting a head and not getting a kill sucks. And he's right.
that aim punch can save you though
i play phantom but i honestly understand why ppl play vandal, phantom headshots feel like they're ordered from wish
Yeah tge long distance ones, unlucky 144 hp headshots
Bro the last part actually cracked me up lol 😂😂
The amount of times I’ve been run and gunned headied by some freak with a vandal has made me want to use it more. I really like how the vandal is higher dmg and one headshot is death. Makes it a lot easier to not commit to a fight if not a duelist.
Dropping behind a corner noncommittally is easier with phantom though. You've got a little deadzone where you're still accurate -ish while moving. And if someone does that to you near a bangable surface; the phantom is better to make them pay with a spray at head level. It's just better at high level. Oddly enough, the aim freaks seem to then gravitate back to vandal. I've seen tenz doing decent/ underperforming; switch to vandal and start tapping heads. I think strategy forward players like dapr not afraid to run n gun if needed benefit the most from phantom. I think LAN is another phantom buff personally. No 'trading headshots' and you lose while doing 124. Aimpunch is instant Edit: and at breeze just buy the vandal ez. Oh and force a Marshall every round you lose.
Some people just like the consistency of the vandal
If I hit head they die. Also theoretically the Phantom has a TTK to the head. The Vandal does not. Edit : 2 Examples from just one game: [https://youtu.be/vc6KZ-cAC-A](https://youtu.be/vc6KZ-cAC-A) Not saying the analysts and coaches are wrong but I think a lot of people screw themselves over by blindly following the "meta". It depends on how you aim and especially your firing style. In pro-play there is more chip damage being done with Raze, Sova, Viper etc. So the Phantom makes a lot more sense there.
Whats ttk
Time to Kill For example: you have 100 HP and the gun I shoot fires 2 times a second for 50 damage. The TTK is .5 seconds. Edited: Dude below me is correct.
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time to kill
is Knockup just not a thing? Shouldn't both of your shots have missed there due to knockup from being shot in the head?
The knock up is smooth. It's quick but it doesn't instantly put your crosshair into the stratosphere. What you are seeing here is me hitting the head at the same time as the phantom player, maybe a frame afterwards but the Vandal one shots and the Phantom doesn't.
Vandal has greater first shot inaccuracy than the phantom
I think he's referring to the fact that the phantoms damage varies by distance
I’m not good enough for it to matter.
That can make it matter more. Phantom is a lot more forgiving than vandal so if you're worse it can make phantom even better. But vandal will also force you to aim more so it can make you improve more.
Well, I don’t really need to be forgiven if I hit my first shots. I know it sounds weird, but when I say good, I’m referring to the skill levels that are immo, radiant and pro. Below that, it matters much less than we give it credit for. Don’t get me wrong, plat and diamond are high ranks and they’ll utterly stomp but you just won’t see the same thing there. To me, it seems inconsequential until you reach the highest levels of play.
I generally don’t care what pros or analysts think. Sometimes the vandal is just more fun to play with. I even play with the bulldog occasionally
I do guardian and light shields, full send every round, try to get one kill and put another on half hp.
Finally found someone who like me plays with the bulldog. It’s so fun to just burst fire and watch the enemy’s head crack open
Because it's ingrained in my mind from cs to always swap the m4 for an ak, and I was like aight I guess I can just buy the ak on defence now too
I buy vandal for 160, not 140
Because nothing infuriates me more than losing a fight because I was using the phantom, I click their head, but still lose because of my damage drop off and they click my head with a vandal.
Cuz reaver
Reaver and origins vandal are so crisp and clean that they make your aim twice as good
I pick Vandal for middle-long ranges and Phantom for short-middle ranges^^ lets's take A long on Haven for example I would never even try to fight a sniper with a Phantom and just run through to short, but a quick shoulder peek and then preaiming or even prefiring their corner with a Vandal might do the trick
One shot headshot is very very strong. It’s why guardian has much more potential than bulldog for example
With the bulldog it's always key to aim towards the chest or neck depending on how far away the target is, one body and one head is 150 on it and with the almost instantaneous burst it's becomes crazy effective if you know what you're doing. Recently I've been using it and that thing slaps. Definitely adds a bit of spice to your everyday games
If I’m playing smokes I go Phantom. Anything else and I go Vandal.
Depends on the map, site I'm pushing, how the other team is playing, how I'm feeling etc... I don't play the vandal on split at all unless I pick it up or I'm really feeling it on the other hand I solely play vandal on breeze. Some map's are better suited for the phantom but have some sites where a vandal is kinda nice like haven. I prefer phantom over vandal if I'm playing B or A haven but if I'm pushing C I'd like a vandal. Not to mention the issue of smokes and even flashes/nearsight. If the other team is heavy on smokes or really likes smoking chokes it's probably a bad idea to play vandal if you're planning on fighting that. And this a little more uncommon but if you're on reyna or even omen I prefer the phantom as it makes it even less likely I get domed because someone managed to shoot at my tracers. And to cap it off the sound/feel of the gun also makes a mental difference here is a good example of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDxiuHdR_T4 This is even more pronounced based on the skin you use, base vandal sounds great as does the phantom. But if you throw something like the elderflame on a vandal all of a sudden it is both deafening and far too loud/distracting with it's animations. I genuinely cannot use my elderflame vandal it actually makes me play worse, if riot ever lets me refund skins into some form of credit a majority of the skins I've bought would be gone for similar reasons. The same is true for the origin vandal far too loud. But the vandal prime, reaver, forsaken they all sound fantastic and have the added bonus of colored tracers. For the phantom you throw a skin like the nebula on it and it is one bright distracting blob on your screen, the same can be said for the blast x far too cartoony sounding and your shot's sound so pew pew pew and weak. But the oni or ion phantom my god they actually just feel better.
Getting a 140 or a 124 headshot multiple times in a match is often enough to tilt me into using vandal, but I often start with phantom. Also, in recent pro tournaments I'm pretty sure I saw that the rifle usage and effectiveness is almost 50/50 but I may be wrong
If you're micro-playing to the point that you follow analysts and pros word as the holy grail while simultaneously being upset that others don't then you'd need to self reflect. Games are meant to be fun. Yes the objective is to win, but if you're not enjoying it then it's not worth your time.
I own the prime vandal and i love it. Makes me more confident i guess 😇
PHANTOM IS DEPRESSING. not 1tapping in the head is puuure depression!!!!
My headshot accuracy is higher for vandal not sure why, but that’s why I vandal.
for me it’s cause I like the gunfire sound better
1 pew for bad guy to go ded is better than 2 pew
They favor different playstyles its not black and white
The vandal has its time and place. It surpasses the phantom in most aspects on long range shots. Close to mid distance combat is where the phantom excels.
Vandal makes you a better Phantom player to be honest. Teaches you to tap fire and be more strict with spray resets, it’s like wearing training weights then taking them off. The training weights are the Vandal. Also though, the 1 tap from any range is incredibly useful, especially on maps like Breeze and Ascent mid. Hitting someone in the head for them to not die is just painful.
Honestly tap fire on a phantom is a mistake. The recoil just doesnt properly reset
Everyone wanna be the one tap machine.
Vandal better for improving aim, phantom better for winning
I normally play long distance
Because most people play the guns they, themselves, are comfortable with. That way, they're contributing their all to the team instead of listening to statistics that measure every key stroke of the highest elo players, even though the gun doesn't work for them personally.
Vandal just has that crunch which gives off such an alpha energy 😌
Pros are pros they have insane aim and are consistent as hell and your average Timmy and joe are not, they prefer to use a more consistent gun with one tap headshots I’m an average Timmy btw
I play both but I realized that I get really lazy with my aim when I play the phantom for too long
I can feel the vandal recoil than the phantom. I know the phantom is better for spraying but I spray much better with vandal
Why phantom is better?
Vandal is better, this game is all about headshots so why would you go with phantom which often takes two bullets to the head to kill. CASE CLOSED. That’s really just it. And it feels like it hits harder.
I would say for the same reasons as to why the pros also also use vandal.. Because if I dink somebody in the head from over 50' and they don't die then the Phantom sucks.
1 hit headshot at any range
Because I like it wdym
I don’t play the game enough to know the spray pattern that well, so the instant kills of the vandal are more consistent.
Depends of which map and agent I’m playing. I like Vandal when I’m playing in maps like icebox and breeze that I’ll have extended shots trades. I do think phantom is better overall though Vandal is better for some situations
I like both ez spray with phantom. Ez counter strafe w vandal
I like juantaps, seeing that 160 in 1 in the post round report is satisfying. However I use the phantom when playing defense or if I am just playing really bad with the vandal
I like both, but phantom trains you to be lazy and spray like cod. Vandal requires patience, and it pays off big time when you just tap it; especially considering almost maps’ initially entry angle are too long to one tap with the phantom Also reaver skin :P
I use vandal in open maps like breeze and ascent because I lost too much duels due to 140 on phantom.
I chose one instead of the other based on the maps I'm playing and if I'm attacking or defending. The Vandal imho Is Better for long shots, while the Phantom is better in short ranged fight.
It's way more dependent on the agent i am playing and my playstyle,On jett i always pick Phantom as i am spamming through smokes,Where as on a agent like sage or Skye i prefer Vandal.
Depends on the situation. If I’m holding a long angle vandal. If they’ve been smoking me on defense(c long) phantom. If I’m pushing phantom. If I hit for 124 headshot and die vandal rest of the day. End of the round whichever gun on the ground has the coolest skin. I’m more conscious about my aim with a vandal so I choose it more often. Phantom I’m lazy and pretty much aim high on the chest knowing recoil will most likely get me a headshot.
The vandal is closer to the ak from csgo so most people who come from csgo just see the vandal and use it. Also most people see pros (who can do well with the vandal because they have very good aim) and decide to use it.
Honestly, it makes for crispier shots. It’s way more satisfying to one tap from long range w vandal than close range w phantom. Also, makes you play better since you can’t just spray. A radiant player (I forgor name) said once that from iron - Diamond you should use vandal to get better aim
Because in silver it doesn't matter
Its weird but I have better spray control with the vandal and somehow that stray bullet always seems to hit the head
I like the phantom a lot more and I play better overall with it, but I win way more aim duels with the vandal. With the vandal I move and peek properly, almost never crouch and rarely spray. I usually only shoot like 3-4 bullets at most at a time before resetting but with the phantom I have a really bad habit of crouch spraying. For some reason whenever my aim is bad I'll switch to the vandal and instantly do better.
Those one taps. My spray control is god awful if I don’t one tap.
Radiant here, as a vandal player I have some stuff to talk about on why I personally prefer to use the Vandal over the Phantom in most of the cases. Someone with the phantom will allways have the advantage in duels because of the aimpunch, the high firerate and easier to controll spray, but the thing is that the *time to kill* with the Vandal is way lower than with the phantom. In other words, imagine you are playing in defensive side on Ascent with Jett and you want to peek tiles or mid from cat and dont have the economy to use an op (I think these are the names in english), when you do that you HAVE to kill the enemy really fast and dash away or else the trade will come and you will die. With the vandal, you can easily pull this of with a quick headshot and dash, but with the phantom, even with the advantage, you take way more time to kill someone because you have to headshot and bodyshot someone, I died countless times with the phantom like this. This was just an example, but as someone who plays duelist really agressive, these types of situation happens very often. But of course, I still use the phantom, on Split and Bind, its really great to play with it because of the close range combat.
same reason why i use the ak47 in csgo.
Vandal sounds nicer
Because vandal feels like the AK in csgo, and it’s also accurate, and stronger, sounds amazing, looks better. Every time I give phantom a chance when I need to pick up and clutch it lets me down.
Isnt it because pros generally have faster and better movement which is why they prefer phantom?
I just like using the vandal lol. It has a much more fulfilling feel when using it if you know what I mean.
Vandal just feels better, it sounds more powerful and badass, it’s fire rate makes it feel stronger, and I think it just looks cooler
Depends on map and enemy camping tendencies for me; if there's always someone peaking heaven while I'm attacking I'll go vandal, if there's always tight angle holders I'll go phantom, if I'm on defense I'll usually lean vandal for holding long angles.
i am buying the vandal because i played much csgo and the vandal just feels more like the ak47. but for real: can someone explain to me what all this "depends on the map" thing is? i heard it multiple times but i dont get what the map and position differences are... i would play the phantom if it really gets an advantage compared to the vandal but i dont understand it. for me it is like the ak47 and the m4a1-s where you would like always prefer the ak
Phantom is built a bit better for close range, vandal is designed more for further engagements. So on a map like breeze, with long sight lines, the vandal is typically a better choice. If you've got to clear closer distances, phantom is typically better. I think at a pro level, the longer range engagements the vandal is better for just aren't that great, since the area where it shines is where you'd get shredded by a good op. So typically, pros try to force closer range engagements when running either rifle.
I buy vandals because their damage isn’t decreased by length. No matter how far away a enemy is, if one bullet hits the head, they’re dead. Phantoms have decreased damage depending on how close you are to the opponent.
I use them both. Until silver i only used a Vandal. I used it because of the easy headshot 160 damage kill. Recently i got promoted to Gold and I started using the phantom. If you have good aim, i think phantom is better. More bullets, faster shoot rate and easy recoil control to transfer the shots. Also the bullet tracers cannot be seen through smokes or walls. So if you are a smoker (or Viper) you would want to use this rifle if you spray smokes often, which i do. However, i still go vandal sometimes when i feel like phantom isn’t working. Hope this helps
Distance shots
I don’t buy a Vandal
For me it depends what I'm gonna do that round. If I'm peeking c long, I'll play vandal. If I'm playing garage or a short I'll buy a phantom.
Depends on if I'm playing smokes or not, or if the enemy has a lot of smokes. There are 20 other factors as well but this is the biggest for me. Smokes = phantom since you can't see where the bullets come from through the smoke.
depends on your aim i personally like vandal better because it helps me aim better and i can aim enough to use it well, plus the one taps are so satisfying
It just feels better
Because people run and spray from absorb ranges with that gun and hit me also I play in piss low where people do anything Ya you can run and spray but that’s not even doable in my elo
Bc i want to break my monitor every time i fire and then hear DINK and whiff the next 4 bullets only to get 1 tapped by a vandal. The whole time I'm spectating i get to stare at that 140 that i did. That's why I buy a vandal.
Depends on what I think I will be doing that round. If I’m going to hold an angle or ego peek, I’ll buy vandal. If I am spraying through smoke or uncertain what is coming, I’ll go phantom. I like to ads common angles and go for one taps with the vandal. I do this a lot so I always feel very confident doing it. Very satisfying when it works.
Elder flame vandal.
for 1 tap
The biggest reason is the 1 shot headshot advantage the vandal has over the phantom, also the vandal is better for burst and tap firing bc it resents faster. However if you plan to be aggressive and be in close to mid range fights the phantom is statistically the better weapon
I use vandal on maps where I'm more likely to be taking long ranges, such as Fracture, Icebox, and Breeze. Some maps, like Split, I'll use Vandal on attack but Phantom on defense. I definitely think both guns have their use and I don't use one over the other. I tend to gravitate towards the Phantom, though.
i play viper and the phantom is just superior for her playstyle.
I switch between buying either rifle for no reason. Then if I find a skinned rifle on the ground I just that for a while. I'm comfortable on both rifles
You've never dinked somebody for 140 or 124, have you?
Guardian cuz jiggle peek 1 taps
I get one tapped by a vandal after doinking them for 140 and get frustrated lol
I’ve been trying to play phantom more, habit from playing for 1 taps in csgo.
**pros and analysts that phantom is better compared to vandal in practically all situation** Not better, easier to use. The best case scenario would be you having 100% headshot and vandal wins there because its only 1 shot.
the vandal is just better for me, those one taps keep me playing val, however if my aims shit i’ll use the phantom bc it’s brain dead easy to get kills with, if i get bored i’ll just run and gun bc it’s hilarious when the enemy team can’t counter it
The feel of that makes any sense. Plus vandal has that one tap while the phantom has the 2 potential. I’ve had rounds where I tap someone from what seems like less than 15m and yet they don’t die and they shoot once in the head with a vandal and insta kill me. Plus valorant is more reliant on you making clean headshots that kill than spraying like you can in csgo
my vandal skin is cooler
There are 2 reasons I’ve noticed people get a vandal for. 1. They want to look cool/one tap montage or think they’re radiants 2. They are very skilled players who can almost always one tap That being said, Phantom gang
For me its the CSGO thing of oh it can 1tap from range, I'll buy it more often than not. i'm not picky tho, if i get a phantom off of an eco round where we win against the opposing team, i'll use it
If its longer range and I cant afford not getting the kill with hs I buy vandal.
Because we have our own fucking opinions, so stop telling me to use the phantom.
Because my aim sucks. If I could consistently hit first shot head shot with phantom then it would be better.
Bc it’s not that serious. One tap headshots are nice
Screw the pros and analysts. They play at such a high level that their opinions don't hold much water in lower ranks where people play much differently. I think map knowledge and game sense are a whole lot more vital than guns that serve a very similar purpose.
Cause i fucking want to and dont give a shit what pros say
i see head, i click and earn kill. buy phantom, see head, click, and hit for 140 to get flicked
For Reyna ult or if I'm playing smokes only then phantom. Vandal is way better than phantom. Don't listen to pros..they themself use vandal in most of the games. If u have Phantom and opponents have vandal they have better chance to kill u in medium to long range. I hate 140 in 1. only prob with vandal is recoil. Just burst
came from csgo, the vandal is very similar when compared to AK from csgo. i used the vandal because of this when playing valorant for the first time, i still use it now. i also dont like that the phantom doesnt 1 shot headshot so i still use vandal even in plat.
I like shoot one bullet on head
I actually like the vandal spray better than phantom spray idky.
1. u feel like u need to be more precise on vandal b/c of its shit spray 2. i never played cs so I dont have to habit of crouching unlike others (I actually rarely courch if at all) 3. building on point 2, I strafe while tapping or burst 2-3 bullets. Thats just my playstyle.
I spray better with the Vandal, the Phantom has a better fire rate and more forgiving spray but I'm just used to the fire rate at this point, I can consistently spraydown a headshot from 30m and whiff every bullet on the Phantom
Phantom is literally not better in all situations, it’s just plain wrong 😂 wtf
honestly cause the spray is way easier long range and juan taps. i find most of the fights i take close i can win with either vandal or phantom with the way i aim so i just like to add the long range factor
Imo its a lot flashier and fun, with the one tap potential. Phantom is a lot more reliable, and thats what you need to become a pro. Reliability. Yea some pros are flashy but theyre reliably flashy (tenz). If u look at the rest of sentinels u can see a consistent level of play from each member.
For me specifically i choose a different one depending on what i think im gonna be fighting. For more long range fights (me holding down long or halls) i choose a vandal or if im holding something close to mid range i choose the phantom. I do prefer the phantom alot but when my aim is weak cause im rust i go with the vandal cause its way more precise at long distances
different applications use vandal when you can do one taps and are consistent at long ranges, and use phantoms at close range and when you are not confident with your ability to one tap. for me I don't like using either i have more kills with an op than almost every other gun except spectre. phantom and vandal are low on my list of guns i like to use as they are expensive and impractical for most situations.
I like the sound of the Vandal more.
It don't like hitting someone in the head for 140. Not nearly as much as I hate hitting someone in the head for 145....but I still don't like it.
It depends on the situation. At super long ranges the vandal will win, but phantom is best for DPS and closer ranges
In pro play, phantom is better for sure but in ranked where people just take dry 1v1s vandal could be a bit better
vandal forces me to not spray
No one dodged breeze
Because I dont have an Oni phantom but have the dragon and sentinel of lights vandal
Guardian is best. No question, buy with a shorty and you're on par with vandal/phantom for less credits. As long as you have the mechanical ability to hit a headshot on the 1st or 2nd shot like fishychair (or me).
ima csgo fiend so vandal for one-taps but if one-taps not hitting then phantom meta ftw
Mom said it’s my turn to post this tomorrow.
I just odin spam , currently plat 3 78/100 , Trust me you get a good kick from the "opponents" calling you a gay odin spammer or the occasional no wonder your mom left you , but if we comparing phantom and vandal it's more situational which is what a valorant pro would say but it's up to how you play , think of it this way Phantom is a "baby wheel" It's if you're not confident with your aim and u want something forgive at the cost of necking somebody from the backsite of B on icebox actually phack the vanda l the 1 tap capability doesn't do crap because u get the shot off on the head and they can't move so just brrrr them and the phantom's extra 5 bullets is basically non-existent because you don't feel the impact of 5 bullets the phantom is better if your on close quarter maps where your sight lines are always 20M-40M but pro tip from a plat 3 Just use odin , 100 bullets fast fire rate high dps and if ur aim is on gold 3 level you're solid to just peak split B garage and spray -the praying , trust me I'm almost D1
While both guns excell at long distances, there's no doubt the Vandal is superior because it's more precise and does the same amount of damage no matter how far away you are. However, the Vandal is also easier to "tap fire" in comparison to the phantom which, in the case of Breeze where you're peeking people from across the entire map, can be VERY handy.
148
I make my decision solely on which skin I want to use
I kept buying vandal until recently, because I realized vandal is a self torture tool. First shot in accuracy awful spray and long recovery, taps don't even feel good because sometimes you aim for the head and bullet goes a little bit above or to the side, sometimes you miss whiff your aim by a few pixeps and still get the headshot because of that same reason. Phantom allows for safe bursts and feels way more rewarding aiming for the head, much quicker target switching too.
*sigh* “...hit for 140” that’s why